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Pravus
06-08-03, 22:44
OK i know a lot of monks keep saying 'dont nerf us any more you already did away with a lot of our power' but maybe you yourselves dont realise quite how powerful you are... this screenshot shows a OP battle on Saturn a few mins ago.

The red coloured ones are non-psi players. the yellow (you cant see clearly i dont know why it came out like that) are all monks, and one of them is friendly to me, the others were enemies. Now, we had some CS Tanks with us and others, but while we were all chasing round a surviving PPU monk in the underground, with like 15/16 people after this one guy, all the other monks from this clan got ready and came to attack us, so the moment i stepped outside the underground i was absolutely wiped out.

The only survivors from our faction (we were just a mix of clans from FA) were monks (who were killed eventually too, i think the only real survivor was a spy, and only cos shes a droner, and wasnt actually anywhere near the OP). I know, it was a fun battle, lots of flashes lightning and effects caused by the monks, but i would prefer it if in these battles we saw more of other classes, rather than a team of about 4 PPU and 5 APU monks... now i know im gonna get attacked by saying this just like others, or they will say uh, i cant even be bothered to reply to this, but i think maybe from another viewpoint you can see quite how important monks are.

I think some of the reason for the monks power is their lag defeating aim, as while it takes a lot of luck and concentration to manage to even HIT an enemy with a gatler when there are up to 15 players on screen at once, you can almost always hit an enemy with a monk, or at least avoid hitting team mates. Now i will post the picture so you can (sortof) see what i mean.

http://www.icedlightning.co.uk/images/howopsarewon.jpg

Pitspawn
06-08-03, 23:00
If your going to go to the forum complaining that you want monks nerf please provide :

> Why you think the nerf is deserved.
> What you think should be changed.

Thx.

G.0.D.
06-08-03, 23:02
I dont get it..


but lets nerf em just to be sure

Spy<VS>Spy
06-08-03, 23:03
monks are uber? hmm, thats a new concept isnt it?

Arcadius
06-08-03, 23:03
Damn Pavus, I wish I could understand what you were takling about, but why teh fuck is your post so wide? Is it the pic? Can you please edit it?


I really wanna read what you have to say, but that annoying "scroll sideways" that i have to do is preventing me lol.

Pravus
06-08-03, 23:06
hehe i knew it, i wasnt clear enough

i am not saying i want monks nerfed, i just was trying to show monks why others think that... i personally think its quite cool how PPU can run about for ages not being killed (maybe it is a little too long, but stil it requires skill to keep all the buffs up) i also think APU are cool, maybe a little too powerful but i have no argument against them that hasnt already been covered before. It was just to give and argument why monks shouldnt jump at people straightaway who say they are too powerful, and just argue with them properly and tell them why they think monks arent too powerful i think i got it right this time... :)

Pravus
06-08-03, 23:08
im not sure how to limit the size of the pic, sorry, this is just how it came out. do i have to do it before i upload it, or is there a forum tool to do it?

bd*
06-08-03, 23:09
I can see 3 non monks and can only confirm about 4 monks in that pic....so what? Mabey it was a crahn clan who like to RP.

Just cause a lot of people enjoy the monk class (i myself find it to be the only one remotely fun) doesnt mean they should be nerfed.

You should of been overjoyed that all your enemies had roughly the same weakness o_O

MortuusLupus
06-08-03, 23:11
You don't need to make the picture smaller, just put your text into paragraphs. Anything longer than four or five (short to medium length) sentances gets to be an eyestrain on these forums.

G.0.D.
06-08-03, 23:14
hmmm... in america they sell Yaahoo's!!! they are so chocolety

MortuusLupus
06-08-03, 23:15
careful, you're gonna get a 2 week ban to go along with your vacation time :p

G.0.D.
06-08-03, 23:16
that would really suck.. . but it would save me 6 dollars an hour!

bd*
06-08-03, 23:29
Question: Just logged on my monk , 648% FA, 87 / min, yet i was chasing down another monk in the UG of our op, just running forward nothing fancy, and i fizzy 99% of the time...why?

I then stood still and i still fizzled quite a bit. ALso i noticed my HL was wrecking a hell of a lot faster. Soemthing changed or is it just me?

Arcadius
06-08-03, 23:31
Fire Apoc is crap, I recommend sticking with HL unless you KNOW for a fact your enemy has horrible fire resist.

bd*
06-08-03, 23:32
My HL is a sin to all monks :(

japata
06-08-03, 23:34
Yup. I think that other classes need a touch of the magic wand of boosting and DOOM +3.

That's correct. No nerfs, no gimps, no lames, nothing like that. Just a HP/damage/runspeed/c3wl gadgets/etc. for other classes.

Arcadius
06-08-03, 23:34
Originally posted by japata
Yup. I think that other classes need a touch of the magic wand of boosting and DOOM +3.

That's correct. No nerfs, no gimps, no lames, nothing like that. Just a HP/damage/runspeed/c3wl gadgets/etc. for other classes.



doom+3?

Zokk
07-08-03, 00:28
Lets all roll monks in protest...


It baffles my mind how I could become a god so easily... all I would need to do is delete my tank and level a PPU for a few days... and yet I have such a hard time pressing the little red "X".

Arcadius
07-08-03, 02:07
Originally posted by Zokk
Lets all roll monks in protest...


It baffles my mind how I could become a god so easily... all I would need to do is delete my tank and level a PPU for a few days... and yet I have such a hard time pressing the little red "X".


lmao


IMO PPus ruin the game. They should be removed entirely. It's silly that op wars are determined by how many ppus and apus you have(apus are only needed to debuff ppus, in other words it's just about the ppu again).


Alot of people use the silly excuse "OMG BUT PVP LASTS LONGER WHEN I CAN SPAM PARALYZE ON THE ENEMY ERM OOPS I MEAN WHEN PPUS ARE THEIR TO HEAL AND BUFF". So just give everyone a + bonus to hitpoints. Something that'll make pvp last longer. Maybe like +700 hitpoints to everyone. That'll take care of that silly excuse.


God how I wish ppus were gone.

Kendo Averly
07-08-03, 02:15
Originally posted by Pravus
http://www.icedlightning.co.uk/images/howopsarewon.jpg

Dead monk laid right next to your own body. Going by the armour he's a PPU. As Yellow is PA1/PA2 of the Crahn Monk PPU PA.

I not only find it difficult to level, but most of the time it's awkward to cast buffs on others unless they're stood still and I'm stood still. Then it's a matter of keeping on top of my own buffs, and their buffs. Unless I'm casting continuously it's not an easy thing to judge. Heh.

Pitspawn
07-08-03, 02:16
Originally posted by Arcadius
God how I wish ppus were gone.

I love you too :rolleyes:

bounty
07-08-03, 02:45
i know this is an extremely broad generalization but when i'm out leveling in the caves, fire mobs, or even in some pvp, i've noticed that monks seem to be in tune with teamwork more. I'm not saying tanks suck teamwork wise, but they just like to be rambo a lot of the times and if they used some teamwork alongside monks or spies, it might work out better.

*puts on flame resistant suit*

bounty
07-08-03, 02:47
Originally posted by Arcadius
lmao


IMO PPus ruin the game. They should be removed entirely. It's silly that op wars are determined by how many ppus and apus you have(apus are only needed to debuff ppus, in other words it's just about the ppu again).




Don't you feel that having a bunch of tanks can make a big impact on the determining factor of an op battle? I know i do. ANd apu's are not needed just for taking down a ppu, I saw one take down a tank in 4 HL casts in less than 10 seconds.

Arcadius
07-08-03, 03:21
Originally posted by bounty
Don't you feel that having a bunch of tanks can make a big impact on the determining factor of an op battle?

No not BIG. They have an important factor in op battles yes, but nowhere near as much as ppus.



Originally posted by bounty
ANd apu's are not needed just for taking down a ppu, I saw one take down a tank in 4 HL casts in less than 10 seconds.


:rolleyes:


Anyways since you seem to be missing the point i'll reiterate, every class can deal damage. So you don't NEED one specific class at an op war. If the enemy has 3 tanks and 3 pes, and you have 1 tank and 5 pes, it can still be a good fight with no MASSIVE disadvantages to either side. If you have 3 tanks, 2 pes, and 1 ppu, and the enemy has 3 ppus and 3 apus(who can debuff ur ppu) then you might as well GIVE them the op and any turrets in it.


Btw no tank will die in 4 HL casts if he has full health, unless of course he has 30 energy resist.

And like I said if no PPU is present, then you don't NEED an apu. You only NEED a ppu if the enemy has one, similarly with teh apu you only NEED an apu if the enemy has a ppu or more.

Thormael
07-08-03, 03:23
A monk nerf won't suddenly reduce monks' number. Hybrids made a lot of players go monks. Now hybrids are gone, there are still more monks.

Many people will still think they're overpowered just because there are more, but it's not that easy.

Get a few tanks shooting Moons in the monks' direction and monks will go away / down fast. Have one ppu shock / boost them for better results.

enablerbr
07-08-03, 03:24
Arcadius sept if you have 5 tanks , 2 PPUS v's 1 spy. the spy only wins if they cheat. :D

Zokk
07-08-03, 03:36
Get a few tanks shooting Moons in the monks' direction and monks will go away / down fast. Have one ppu shock / boost them for better results.


Cause you've tried that outside the sewers and that actually works :rolleyes:

Ryuben
07-08-03, 03:45
lol



sooooo arch if there was no PPU's erm how long would a APU last in battle and how pissed off would u be when tht shinny DS broke cos u was GRing out every 10 mins :rolleyes:

Arcadius
07-08-03, 03:51
Originally posted by Ryuben
lol



sooooo arch if there was no PPU's erm how long would a APU last in battle and how pissed off would u be when tht shinny DS broke cos u was GRing out every 10 mins :rolleyes:



:rolleyes:

I'd be willing to make the sacrifice. I die very rarely, usually I die when..........................................I"M HOLY PARALYZED. DING DING DING.


I may not have the range of a spy, but I can still snipe and find places to shoot far away from, i've done it before. Trust me baby I know I would get hurt easier and alot faster, but no one would be healing my enemies so I would be able to kill tanks, pes, spies left and right in a matter of seconds.

bounty
07-08-03, 03:53
arch:you are right, i did miss your point. And it makes more sense not what you've reitereated, but i still don't buy your argument. No healing or buffing class? If there is a rpg without a form of a medic/healer than it won't be much fun. yeah we are important for our heals, why not make apu's important for their massive damage? or spies for their superior range and sniping? pistols for their pericing and taking out monks, tanks for their cs's and AoE weapons?

FBI
07-08-03, 03:57
They don't need to nerf monks, they need to nerf apu and ppu
tag teaming.

:lol:

Arcadius
07-08-03, 03:58
Originally posted by bounty
If there is a rpg without a form of a medic/healer than it won't be much fun.


rofl


talk about tunnel vision.



There's no sneak attack in this rpg, OMG IT'S NOT FUN!



Jesus. In other rpgs the medic was NEVER EVER invincible or near invincible. I don't know which rpgs you were playing. Take DnD for example, heal spells actually take a while to cast. OMGMOGMOGM. You didn't have 1 second uber heals combined with 1 second uber defense combined with never miscasting for being hit.


Secondly as I said before, the PPU's importance is STILL over-inflated. If I had to rate it on a scale of 1-10 it would be


PPU=10
Apu=9(only because they have to debuff ppu, otherwise they would be 3)
tank=3
pe=2
spy=2

bounty
07-08-03, 04:20
yeah but medics in other rpgs that aren't invinsible can spread their heal out more and there are a number of other factors that are involved, i think you're the one with the tunnel vision. And yes i don't think they should be invinsible, if anything they should be able to buff 100% to everyone and be 50% for themself. instead of the opposite and take away the anti buffs. The only problem is this leaves them 100% vulnerable on a situation when they are on their own.

hivemind
07-08-03, 04:35
PPUs are like nuclear weapons.

You only need them if the other guy has them, because if the other guy has them and you don't - he wins.

There are only 3 types of players who like PPUs.

1. The PPUS themselves.
2. People in clans that don't fight unless they have a PPU stapled to their ass.
3. People who don't fight anyway.

This last adjustment where the strength of buffs was reduced when cast on other players was a good step, but I still feel that holy buffs are too strong. Period. Delete the holy buffs.

Lovitiar
07-08-03, 04:40
From Post one:
---------------------------------------------------------------
I think some of the reason for the monks power is their lag defeating aim, as while it takes a lot of luck and concentration to manage to even HIT an enemy with a gatler when there are up to 15 players on screen at once, you can almost always hit an enemy with a monk, or at least avoid hitting team mates. Now i will post the picture so you can (sortof) see what i mean.
----------------------------------------------------------------

This may well be an important point to consider...

I'm (obviously) new but a Monk's ability to “Point, Click, and shoot” seems to me would give a significant advantage in
A swirling battle... especially if any amount of lag is involved.

I am NOT saying 'Nerf the monks’ but... how realistic is it for a monk to have little difficulty targeting anyone else... but someone with a automatic weapon (like at gatling cannon ) can't keep a bead on someone because they are running in a circle to fast?

Now if this is an advantage that monks are supposed to have over firearms...fine... but is it?

Then again what few PVP conflicts I've see so far (one week of playing) seem to be carried out at point blank range with area effect weapons so I suspect I've a bit to learn yet.


So let me ask these questions

1) Is the Targeting speed of monks a decided advantage?

2) If so should it be so?

3) What would propose to solve this problem if you think it is one? (my idea below)







One Solution.. allow ‘Burst fire’ weapons to switch from ‘aimed’ to ‘un-aimed’ mode basicly using them the way machineguns work.. filling an area will bullets so the other folks need to keep their heads down. In effect you would use up A LOT more ammo but you could do a number on foes that are all bunched up…

thewarrior008
07-08-03, 04:53
aah i hate arguing LEAVE MONKS AS THEY ARE. period .....

Xian
07-08-03, 04:58
The argument about monks is like beating a dead rotten horse with a stick...

I mean the guy barely posted any reason whatsoever to get rid of monks yet this thread is crawling with people against/completely for them.

Arcadius
07-08-03, 05:12
Originally posted by bounty
yeah but medics in other rpgs that aren't invinsible can spread their heal out more

spread their heal out more? And they can't do that here?



Originally posted by bounty
there are a number of other factors that are involved, i think you're the one with the tunnel vision. .

Name them. Don't just say "there's alot of stuff to consider" and then say nothing.



Originally posted by bounty
if anything they should be able to buff 100% to everyone and be 50% for themself. instead of the opposite and take away the anti buffs. The only problem is this leaves them 100% vulnerable on a situation when they are on their own.



:confused:


Originally posted by Lovitiar


So let me ask these questions

1) Is the Targeting speed of monks a decided advantage?

2) If so should it be so?

3) What would propose to solve this problem if you think it is one? (my idea below)


basically it's apus you'er talking about. Not having a recticle and having that instant damage is one of the main reasons we're the damage dealers of neocron. Complaining about it is like saying tanks have too much con. DUH that's supposed to be one of their traits.

Arcadius
07-08-03, 05:15
Btw I frikkin love apus so much. But I would gladly deal with apus being deleted if it meant ppus were deleted too.

Nixon
07-08-03, 05:17
Originally posted by Pitspawn
If your going to go to the forum complaining that you want monks nerf please provide :

> Why you think the nerf is deserved.
> What you think should be changed.

Thx.

NERF POLARITY COS HE WONT LET ME KILL HIM!

bounty
07-08-03, 05:20
i'll take this over tanks and freezer pistols anyday of the week.

bubby
07-08-03, 06:43
Originally posted by FBI
They don't need to nerf monks, they need to nerf apu and ppu
tag teaming.

:lol:

That is why this game is going down the tubes, KK actually listens to idiots like this

SigmaDraconis
07-08-03, 06:44
weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeee



this isnt spam..i just had to get that out before i say....


I think a monks self buffs should be weaker then buffs on others...as in most RPG's the support charactors are very helpful..but typically low defenses...

As for nerfing a PPU overall..all fine and dandy in my book except for the fact u need their ub4rness to realistically fight most od the top end mobs...even WITH a team of 10 people......i'm not even talking about MC5....:rolleyes:


as for the class rating..

PPU=10
APU=9
Tank=3
PE=2
Spy=2

Id like to alter this a bit seeing as in a regular fight...

PPU=10
APU=8
Tank=6
PE=3
Spy=-6

In an OP war situation..

PPU=15
APU=10
Tank=6
PE=3
Spy=10

Someone has to hack the term afterall ;)

Arcadius
07-08-03, 06:45
Originally posted by bubby
That is why this game is going down the tubes, KK actually listens to idiots like this


hehe I think he was joking.

bubby
07-08-03, 06:46
I dont think so i think he sbeing an idiot

bubby
07-08-03, 06:48
Originally posted by SigmaDraconis
weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeee



this isnt spam..i just had to get that out before i say....


I think a monks self buffs should be weaker then buffs on others...as in most RPG's the support charactors are very helpful..but typically low defenses...

As for nerfing a PPU overall..all fine and dandy in my book except for the fact u need their ub4rness to realistically fight most od the top end mobs...even WITH a team of 10 people......i'm not even talking about MC5....:rolleyes:


as for the class rating..

PPU=10
APU=9
Tank=3
PE=2
Spy=2

Id like to alter this a bit seeing as in a regular fight...

PPU=10
APU=8
Tank=6
PE=3
Spy=-6

In an OP war situation..

PPU=15
APU=10
Tank=6
PE=3
Spy=10

Someone has to hack the term afterall ;)

STUPID , Just delete all monks , spys, pe's, and just have tanks and NPC's to do poking and construction and research and bartering. LOL TANKOCRON

FBI
07-08-03, 06:52
Originally posted by bubby
That is why this game is going down the tubes, KK actually listens to idiots like this

It was a joke dude, with sarcasm. Apus are defenseless without
big brother ppu to help. Which is why i mentioned tagteaming.

You have some nerve to call me an idiot, your the one with the
'L' on your forehead.

[P]

SigmaDraconis
07-08-03, 06:56
If its such a fucking Tankacron why is Gentank no higher then third most important overall class...do de do da de dum *whistles* :rolleyes: O_o O_o O_o :rolleyes: :rolleyes: O_o :rolleyes: 8| :wtf: O_o :rolleyes: :confused: :confused: :eek: :eek: :rolleyes: O_o 8| :eek: :eek:

IronMonkey
07-08-03, 07:21
Originally posted by bounty
Don't you feel that having a bunch of tanks can make a big impact on the determining factor of an op battle? I know i do. ANd apu's are not needed just for taking down a ppu, I saw one take down a tank in 4 HL casts in less than 10 seconds.

4hls wont take down a good tank even unbuffed. So thatw as a seriously cruddy tank or an unbuffed triple dmg boosted tank.

And if it was 4 hls why exactly did it take 10 seconds?

sounds like bs to me sorry

4 HLs takes exactly 2.5ish seconds.


btw have i mentioned im sick of you whiners. Prom on his tank buffed by a ppu is uber. There are quite a few hardcore tanks out there who are sicko when buffed by a ppu just like an apu. And if the tank is actually smart, u know he will take down an apu in a matter of seconds even when the apu is buffed. Its a matter of having the appropriate weponry and testing dmg on the monk to see his setup. the fact is for a apu to do excruiciating dmg unbuffed he has to do what a tank has to do which is overspec his apu to the point where he cannot even use his high level barrels more than 1 cast. Now it is true that apus built for clan wars who work solely and only with ppu's dont have this issue, and can do silly things like have more hp than a spy more mana than a PE etc. But the fact is unless you are built in this manner that you are allowed to rely on a ppu for sustaining you. You will be gimped and you will think kk hates apus. You will wonder why u must beg tanks for heals. You will have to rely on personal skill and luck rather than anything else to win a fight.

Anyone who says otherwise. Has a PPU shoved so far up their ass they forgot what its like to play apu alone. Anyone that thinks APU's should be nerfed is just silly minded. The reason apu's tend to seem so uber is because well try playing one till cap soloing 95% of the way. You get incredible strafe skill and aim because you spend 99.9999% of your time running hiding dodging sucking strafing moving trying to do somthing in gods name to stop you from being hit. Because you are a wet paper bag.

Pitspawn
07-08-03, 07:23
Just off topic. Triple damage boosting someone does nothing.

PvM limit for dmg boost = 3
PvP limit for dmg boost = 1

Test it yourself if you dont believe me.

IronMonkey
07-08-03, 07:30
eh pit i know im just used to saying triple dmg boosting.

bounty
07-08-03, 08:25
Originally posted by IronMonkey
4hls wont take down a good tank even unbuffed. So thatw as a seriously cruddy tank or an unbuffed triple dmg boosted tank.

And if it was 4 hls why exactly did it take 10 seconds?

sounds like bs to me sorry

4 HLs takes exactly 2.5ish seconds.



Well to defend myself, he was fully healed. And it took 10 seconds instead of 2.5 cause there was a pause between 2 bursts (tank ran behind a corner).

And i don't know why it took only 4 , ask shadow dancer, he's the one that did it.

Arcadius
07-08-03, 08:50
Originally posted by FBI
It was a joke dude, with sarcasm. Apus are defenseless without


omg, after you saw me own that tank today at crp you still think this?


Please.......apus aren't defenseless.






Originally posted by bounty

And i don't know why it took only 4 , ask shadow dancer, he's the one that did it.

O_o

You're talking about today at crp?

Hrmm well actually you're somewhat right. it was about 5-6 hits. I kept thinking about it afterwards wondering why I did so much damage. It COULD be because we were at crp and he might have had full fire armor, but I saw the damage and wasn't high enough so that it was obvious he had fire armor.

Anyhow i'm pretty sure he had a PvP armor setup, kuz he kept bragging an apu couldn't take him down, he sounded really sure of himself.

MjukisDjur
07-08-03, 09:07
Cs kill me in 6 seconds - max
I kill tank in 10-15 sec. How am I overpowered?

here, have some STFU...
If you see them monks coming at ya, image 5 for instance.
You guys are 5 tanks. What do you do? Kill the one ppu or the 4 apus? You allways go after the ppu which I belive is stupid since the apus will destroy you in seconds. Try to kill some of the apus first instead and deal with the ppu later. Sure, he can ress them but that takes longer time than it takes to kill a monk. And if your speedgun dont seem to be effective - THEN IT ISNT. Some of us got some really nice resists so dont bother. Use your 200 hc and slotted cs for god sake. And tanks - try get some energy + fire resist since monks will come with a HL of FA

cheers

bubby
07-08-03, 14:15
Originally posted by FBI
It was a joke dude, with sarcasm. Apus are defenseless without
big brother ppu to help. Which is why i mentioned tagteaming.

You have some nerve to call me an idiot, your the one with the
'L' on your forehead.

[P]

Jokes like this got us monks 30% on both sides nerfed, and its not an "L" , IT's an "N" (NERFED) Tell me this what would everyone say if they took 30% hc and 30% melee away from tanks if they didnt specialize so if tanks used all their special bones with the extra melee, boom NERFED just like a monkeh.
Tanks get 90 in melee from imps and bones Its no different, in fact brainport material i thinks (that is sarcasm)

Sleawer
07-08-03, 14:35
Originally posted by Pitspawn

Just off topic. Triple damage boosting someone does nothing.

PvM limit for dmg boost = 3
PvP limit for dmg boost = 1

Test it yourself if you dont believe me.

Actually I think the number of PvM stacks for dmg boost might be based in the damage % of the spell. When I was hybrid, I capped the damage dealed to bigger mobs, like chasers or grims, at the fourth cast of dmg boost.

PVP is one, that's for sure.

Lucjan
07-08-03, 15:38
Originally posted by hivemind
PPUs are like nuclear weapons.

You only need them if the other guy has them, because if the other guy has them and you don't - he wins.

There are only 3 types of players who like PPUs.

1. The PPUS themselves.
2. People in clans that don't fight unless they have a PPU stapled to their ass.
3. People who don't fight anyway.

This last adjustment where the strength of buffs was reduced when cast on other players was a good step, but I still feel that holy buffs are too strong. Period. Delete the holy buffs.

Exactly that is the point!

I would say, the nuclear weapon factor is reduced to shelter and deflector and on minor state also heal. Boosters or resurrection don't play much a role in here.

And for those thinking a spy is useless in OP fights: please learn how to use spies in OP fights. He is only "useless" in 1on1 combat against other classes, but the first line is not his position in the fight.

Lucjan
07-08-03, 15:42
Originally posted by bubby
Jokes like this got us monks 30% on both sides nerfed, and its not an "L" , IT's an "N" (NERFED) Tell me this what would everyone say if they took 30% hc and 30% melee away from tanks if they didnt specialize so if tanks used all their special bones with the extra melee, boom NERFED just like a monkeh.
Tanks get 90 in melee from imps and bones Its no different, in fact brainport material i thinks (that is sarcasm)

1. Melee is sooo usefull every tank is using it...
2. Melee and H-C are both offensive
3. If KK would remade the imps to versions not giving M-C bonuses, nobody would say a word as we don't need melee for more then some leveling. Melee is since quite a long time reduced to pure fan factor, it is of no use in PvP.

KimmyG
07-08-03, 15:45
What is this another Tank got killed by some monks nerf them seriously monks are fine now that hybrids are they got high attack? Yea but if there alone dont bother with them cause the dragon flies around the op will take them out for u. And a PPU there a moving pile of meat they arnt doing anything unless u really suck and acept the parashorck death


Nerf this Nerf that

Everyone has some reason to nerf a certain class at one time or another usually right after that class owned if it keeps up we will be fighting with stileto's and baseball bats.

bubby
07-08-03, 23:52
only fists will be left and then they will take away a finger at a time till we have stumps left. PATCH 201 FIST NERF 3 FIngers removed due to being too uber.

QuantumDelta
08-08-03, 00:00
enters thread
wishes he hadn't

.... I hate tanks.....

walks back out

Darkborg
08-08-03, 00:37
...*sigh*...

ooh well i had diliberately stayed away from here because of the title.
But i gues here goes.
Nerf the PPU's why ?? because we are so uber ?? i dont feel totally uber cs smurfs hurt me bad if i arent quick enough to get away from em. eg. If 1 tank is shooting me i am damn busy staying alive running and healing myself goodbye team support. which kinda hurts my usefullness factor.

Do u have any idea how annoying this is PPU's and APU's actually have a cooperation that works it takes at LEAST two player which means teamwork. Which basically is why we play these damn games.
Tanks can go out and make a difference in an op fight me i need to strap some offensive char to my ass to be able to do jack shit.

and ppu's are important it means that if u have one u can probably beat the other guys if they dont have one. Hey id hate going into a fight with someone who has PE PE's (sry bout that one :p ) or Smurfs, if i didnt have any of those on my team, id probably loose.
And yes the APU PPU combo rules BUT my impression is that it isnt because of balance issues its simply because said apu/ppu has been lvl'ing together for an eternity,and has the Teamwork down.
Heavens knows if u dont have teamwork u will probably get your ass wooped in almost any engament on remotely equal terms.

Sry bout the long speech hope it makes sence to someone.

Lucjan
08-08-03, 00:38
Originally posted by QuantumDelta


.... I hate tanks.....


Nah, you don't. I know you love us ;-)

Arcadius
08-08-03, 00:39
Originally posted by Darkborg

And yes the APU PPU combo rules BUT my impression is that it isnt because of balance issues its simply because said apu/ppu has been lvl'ing together for an eternity,and has the Teamwork down.


This is somewhat true. WHen I fight with Carinth it's a beautiful thing. I have fought alongside some bad ppus before, and it was ugly. :(

Sleawer
08-08-03, 01:01
Damn, finding a good "active" playstyle ppu is one of the harder things in the game. The ppu job is one of the professions which requires 100% dedication, keeping a person alive in pvp while you are alive aswell is damn hard, you just cannot wait and see how the apu kills, you need to dmg boost, freeze, keep healings running on him, recast shields on you and keep yourself healed and alive, guess when he needs shields, have good aim to not target an enemy instead, stay always near the apu, never leave him alone or outside your catharsis sanctum, etc..etc..etc...

Damn hard to play, and even harder to find someone good at this.

QuantumDelta
08-08-03, 01:24
Originally posted by Lucjan
Nah, you don't. I know you love us ;-)

....*Points at screenshot* :/

ezza
08-08-03, 01:58
in responce to the original pos, judging by the screenshot it was the fight at regent aganist CM, well my clan were making up the bulk of the monks, think there was maybe 5 from my clan there, all monks, but then we always have been a predominantly monk clan,even before thesudden monk popluation increase because of hybrids.

my clan used to be followers of crahn who fought against one of the FA clans there numberous occasions a few months ago, and we were more often than not a practically 100% monk attack force, so nothings changed for us, and not all of the force was there at that point, later on more PEs and tanks joined the force, so it evened it out.

if this battle had gone in your favour would we be seeing this anti monk post?o_O

you lost and there were a fair few monks there, so what, theres a few clans that are mostly monk, what we ment to do go out of our way to bring more tanks/pes/spys in to the clan, tbh i always the idea of a total monk force.

there would of been more non monks there but there was only limited mercs avalible at that point in time, and my clan was avalible so along came all the monks :p

i think the numbers ran like this 5 APUs 1 PPU 1 PE and 2 tanks on the merc side at that battle proves nothing.

all these monk threads are starting to piss me off, you all bitched about the PPUs so you got your fucking nerf on them, so no doubt APUs will get the shitty end of the nerf stick.

oh and btw ever heard of a moonstriker :rolleyes:, with the nerfed PPU sheilds and the fact that the monks were all crowded as the pics shows, a couple of shots into them and you would have a few dead monks.

edit: i had fun setting all your corpses on fire:p

Pravus
08-08-03, 14:13
ok i dont know how this forum works and i really dont want to drag this thread right to the top again, i didnt realise it would go on like that, so please dont post any more after this. Yes that is the battle you talk about at regant. The reason i didnt shoot some nice AoE into them is cos i was on 80 hlt when i came out of the underground, and was totally murdered when i discovered all you monks had turned up...

The only problem as i see it is that PPU and APU are like totally different characters, they just look similar. If you took away a monk's choice of being PPU or APU after the beginning of the game, and made them into 2 different looking classes, then im sure everybody wouldnt argue so much about monks in general. You can have a clan of all-monks that works, which you couldnt do with other classes, and thats because you ARENT ACTUALLY ALL THE SAME!!! With a tank the only choice is to go H-C if you want to play PvP, a spy is best with rifles (because you have to get close to use pistols, against the idea of a spy) and a PE is best with pistols, so this is what everybody chooses. The Monk as it stands is really just the only one who can be used for both of its options, APU and PPU, and this is where it appears people get annoyed, because of this obvious link between the two. If there were 2 separate characters, with different models and different names, say Obliterator and Angel (obvious which is which) then maybe we would see more teams of Tanks and PPUs, or PEs and APU from the beginning of the game, as we see with APU and PPU.

Now i HOPE that all you monks see that i now realise there is nothing wrong with your skills, it is simply your skills combined in a way that they arent with other classes. Like i said, maybe it is the fact that APU and PPU, while totally different, work together so well and in such an obvious symbiosis. Again, like i said i dont want this thread to continue as it is, simply because everyone is getting annoyed and that isnt the point of a game, so im just gonna end it at that, bye.

Hwarang S.
08-08-03, 14:50
NERF THE MONKEHS!!!!!!!!! :p


Had to do it..... :D

Seriously, it seems some have the ability to defeat sych, but others don't. My APU sychs just like everyone else in battle.

Maybe I just suck at APU..... :(

ezza
08-08-03, 15:09
Originally posted by Hwarang S.

Maybe I just suck at APU..... :(

proberbly :p

Hwarang S.
08-08-03, 16:47
Originally posted by ezza
proberbly :p



Where's my 5-slot Kleenex to beat you with?? :D :lol: :p