View Full Version : has anyone noticed there are no pkers anymore?
Cryotchekk
05-08-03, 20:39
(pluto) yeah, no good old pker's about (i would be pking if i had a better pc :()
now all high level tanks wich could be pk'ing are in tg clans, and are BORING. i know some people hate pk'ing, but some also enjoy hating pk'ers. there used to be carebare clans but where are they now? where are the all pk'ing clans? i feel that the game has lost a small touch to it that made it so great.
i remember january time when i made my first tank on pluto, i used to level all the time where hurlers and butchees spawn in storage 8, there used to be loads of people there (wich now i see none of) and there used to be some leet ??/45 players who ventured down to storage 8 (if your new to the game dont comment on that), and then all of a sudden some tg would come wipe everyone out. that, to me added a diversity to nc.
does anyone else feel that nc has lost this sort of little touch?
Helen Angilley
05-08-03, 20:40
No mroe PK'ers because they're all in allied clans...yet moan there's no-one to fight (And let's face it, no-one will respect you for bragging about "pwning" people that are lower ranked than you).
most of those leet PKers got wasted by the people they PKed (who later became decent in PvP). Plus they are not that many newbs anymore.
Helen Angilley
05-08-03, 20:45
Originally posted by Russian
most of those leet PKers got wasted by the people they PKed (who later became decent in PvP).
Ah, so that's why Sweet Leaf was in the n00b sewers yesterday. :lol::lol::lol:
Cryotchekk
05-08-03, 20:46
Originally posted by Helen Angilley
No mroe PK'ers because they're all in allied clans...yet moan there's no-one to fight (And let's face it, no-one will respect you for bragging about "pwning" people that are lower ranked than you).
sorry but i cant help but to say this 'i pwnd j00!!!'
sorry, but there used to be clans that killed every fucking person they saw, no matter the consequences. big clans allying bore the fuck out of me, and im sure must some other people, you dont see enough of big clans fighting. refering to when it was all pimp vs gang, was when everyhting died kinda (not blaming them) but when the malvolent crackheads died, crc and actkyc all left (mostly) and some other female pistol useing pe's, everyhting seemed to go down hill :/ something about neocron changed then.
Helen Angilley
05-08-03, 20:48
Originally posted by Cryotchekk
sorry, but there used to be clans that killed every fucking person they saw, no matter the consequences. big clans allying bore the fuck out of me, and im sure must some other people, you dont see enough of big clans fighting. refering to when it was all pimp vs gang, was when everyhting died kinda (not blaming them) but when the malvolent crackheads died, crc and actkyc all left (mostly) and some other female pistol useing pe's, everyhting seemed to go down hill :/ something about neocron changed then.
Yeah, people were only content to kill everything they saw as long as they didn't suffer any penalties (Which is why I laugh my arse off at those will kill an ally until their SL is -15...just one below the "Copbot kill" zone. Likewise, I have a respect for those who kill people all they want but don't scream, cry and demand KK "fix" their soullight when it hits the extreme negatives).
Cryto, I disagree big clans don't fight. NDA vs anti-city fights are pretty damn big. Plus it looks like TA and Gang are going fight pretty soon, should be interesting :)
Cryotchekk
05-08-03, 20:51
Originally posted by Helen Angilley
Yeah, people were only content to kill everything they saw as long as they didn't suffer any penalties (Which is why I laugh my arse off at those will kill an ally until their SL is -15...just one below the "Copbot kill" zone. Likewise, I have a respect for those who kill people all they want but don't scream, cry and demand KK "fix" their soullight when it hits the extreme negatives).
i kinda dont get the last bit, u mean you have respect for people that pk till they have -32 sl and then ask for some gm's to put it back up?
anyways there were some clans that pk'd all the time, and went on till, well, whenever they got bored, like some people went out pking at -50 sl
The correct term is.. there is no more rampant PK'ing.
There are still PK'ers, just they actually take risks in becoming red.
Sunday I bring a newbie to MB, and when we get to the GR they start attacking him (to spook him, not kill him) and then me.. then they go "Oh Hi Simon" and stop (still mess around with me though -_- ).
They were still killing people who were hostile to them that showed up but in general they were attacking people within or close to thier range.
There is no more gank-fest-2003 you would see are newbie areas.
Cryotchekk
05-08-03, 20:53
Originally posted by Russian
Cryto, I disagree big clans don't fight. NDA vs anti-city fights are pretty damn big. Plus it looks like TA and Gang are going fight pretty soon, should be interesting :)
i see what u mean, but gang vs pimp was big, now clans that are enemy's (factions that is) allie, that is just bollocks to me
lets just say PP is boring if theres no risk in getting ganked while going thru the area.
Vampire222
05-08-03, 20:55
na, ta and gang re all friendly, we just owe em 15 million!!!!
Cryotchekk
05-08-03, 20:57
Originally posted by Vampire222
na, ta and gang re all friendly, we just owe em 15 million!!!!
heh, it was actually looking at your occupation that made me think of this ;)
Cryto,
PIMP vs Gang was big and very few people actually new how big it was. My guys still respect PIMP for that very reason, it was awesome war.
I personally don't like PKing - it's not fun to me. I remember once I ran into TG caves, see this unbuffed monk and start killing him. I almost killed him and felt bad, so I stopped. He buffed up and wasted me :(
NERF HYBRIDS!
yeah it stays pretty fresh being nda cause we have so many enemys..so i imagine tg clans are pretty boring but thats cause they all allie so the agressive clans just help each other and dont fight one another ..... back in the day no one cared about allies as much ... then we went thought that state of if u dont wanna be pked then join a pk clan ... after a while it through off the clan wars and agressive peeps like csm, dark , tr and so on had no one to fight but nda .. everyone was a allie .. there just need to be some breaking of freindship then the game will equal out and your still feel scared to level .... or u could just be a man and join nda then there would be plenty of peeps that are gunning for u .. step one join nda step 2 try and level at crp ........ oh yeah youll feel that pking essance in the air ... if your still breathing
Cryotchekk
05-08-03, 21:51
Originally posted by Russian
Cryto,
PIMP vs Gang was big and very few people actually new how big it was. My guys still respect PIMP for that very reason, it was awesome war.
I personally don't like PKing - it's not fun to me. I remember once I ran into TG caves, see this unbuffed monk and start killing him. I almost killed him and felt bad, so I stopped. He buffed up and wasted me :(
NERF HYBRIDS!
heh, i see how u mean.
i think one of the other things that make me feel this way was that i prefered (in some cases) being a complete n000000000bie than i am now. when i first started my skills were fucked, i was a spy with loads of hc and a bit of everything really, a bit of apu and ppu allthough my psi was like 4. i could construc a flashligh but couldnt put a mod on a gun, i could research a bit too and poke, drone, rc, tc, pc etc etc etc. it took me like a month of playing to reach rank 30, now i can cap in about 3 days with ionly having to wait to get then right imps/weps wich i can trade or buy.
there is a big difference between pk a pvp, and russian, when i eventually get my new pc and go tg, i might only stay with gang for a bit (if its still ok :)) because i wanna bring back da good ol' days ;)
Kendo Averly
05-08-03, 21:55
Originally posted by Cryotchekk
(pluto) yeah, no good old pker's about (i would be pking if i had a better pc :()
There is.
i still try, just so hard with GR rules and the other account i wanna cap.
I PK CA. Woah. IPKCA. Yeah, well I do, clanned or not. And there is huge conflict between clans like DARK and CM all the time at MB. You just have to know where to go.
Cryotchekk
05-08-03, 22:06
Originally posted by Nexxy
i still try, just so hard with GR rules and the other account i wanna cap.
but another thing that bores me nexx, is that the game is getting GENERIC, i mean, no one bends style and (i dont mean fuck the person style :/) but no one makes new trends now, every tank is the same:
hc+tc+no pa=boring
i know freezer pistols have been nerfed so theres no point in pc, but think of something else!!!!!!!!!!!!
ZoneVortex
05-08-03, 22:08
Yeah....clans rule the game now. Clans are boring, annoying, lame!
Pluto is ruled by Tangent, Twilight Guardian, and Tsunami.
That's IT.
That's all that happens. Tangent fighting TG and TS sort of doing whatever in the middle.
Woooo wooo sounds like fun, but maybe i'll go play Progress Quest instead (If you don't know what this is you won't get it).
What happened to clanless runners running around ganking other clanless runners? Fuck politics!
PKing is the only thing to do when you are capped, I seem to see plenty of pking from friendly and allied factions. Even some low level newbs I knew got killed by some apu monk then I went and shot the foo who kills newbies. (APU's one of the few classes spys can win doing the tank dance :D ). There is plenty of PVP just people are wanting to ally with everyone. Plenty of Military bunker killings and stuff. But as you said all the big clans which make games boring are trying to all ally into one big clan so we can all get rares and camp leveling zones in peace just sitting there... I think it has gotten a little boring.
Neocron is alot more fun when you aren't allied to anyone because then you don't have any problems with killing people.:)
If everyone took the good advice, broke up all the big clans and created 10 or 20 person clans max there would be tons of fighting. It would be like a tribal game where fights could have even fighting and when someone decides to pick a fight the whole faction doesn't go after you. That is another thing I think that drives people away from pking since there are only three factions on pluto.
put it this way....on pluto...if you're unclanned and you see a hostile...usually they dont attack (in wastelands atleast)...
i have a level 54 pistol pe on saturn unclanned FA runner and i was leveling in j02 at the cage with the launchers...anyways...i was inside at the gogo...so i start running out and a hostile (tangent tech) runner ran by me (he was pure apu)...so i stop to shoot a mutant...and then the guy starts attacking me...so i turned around and shot back...i mustve got him down to 10 health before he got the last 2 shots in to kill me...but after i re-implanted and impairement was gone i went back for my belt and to see if he was still there...which he wasnt...
so i ran around for a few mins and went back...and their was a hostile spy this time...which i payed no mind to and ran by...but she attacked me...so i attacked back and i just wanna say that i had to of won 3 times...cuz she stealthed everytime...
anyways, my point is....pluto has gone soft...and im TG...and i wanna switch to BD...purely for the pvp action...but everyone in TG would call me a traitor and hate me for it...but it's just a fuckin game man...i love fighting friends...i have no problem with it...but others see it like "you killed me, i fucking hate you now"...only thing is...as TG on pluto...we have like no one to kill...becuz everyone are allies/neutrals...and it is VERY VERY boring...
edit: just to add their's sometimes 10 of us standing around in pepperpark allied/neutral...waiting for that 1 hostile to come runing in just to waste him...and if the 10 of us get bored...you'll see us fighting each other...but the same ones that do that...wont admit that TG is boring...people are in denial...
Cryotchekk
05-08-03, 22:14
yeah, clans are good, but when there all allied and give eachother chocklates and blowjobs it gets boring.
Cryotchekk
05-08-03, 22:19
Originally posted by gostly
put it this way....on pluto...if you're unclanned and you see a hostile...usually they dont attack (in wastelands atleast)...
i have a level 54 pistol pe on saturn unclanned FA runner and i was leveling in j02 at the cage with the launchers...anyways...i was inside at the gogo...so i start running out and a hostile (tangent tech) runner ran by me (he was pure apu)...so i stop to shoot a mutant...and then the guy starts attacking me...so i turned around and shot back...i mustve got him down to 10 health before he got the last 2 shots in to kill me...but after i re-implanted and impairement was gone i went back for my belt and to see if he was still there...which he wasnt...
so i ran around for a few mins and went back...and their was a hostile spy this time...which i payed no mind to and ran by...but she attacked me...so i attacked back and i just wanna say that i had to of won 3 times...cuz she stealthed everytime...
anyways, my point is....pluto has gone soft...and im TG...and i wanna switch to BD...purely for the pvp action...but everyone in TG would call me a traitor and hate me for it...but it's just a fuckin game man...i love fighting friends...i have no problem with it...but others see it like "you killed me, i fucking hate you now"...only thing is...as TG on pluto...we have like no one to kill...becuz everyone are allies/neutrals...and it is VERY VERY boring...
heh a typical cryotchekk day when i had my good pc
go to aggies sellar, pk people lower level than me
stand in corner waiting for sl to go to -15
go to wastelands, pk people my level and higher
hang at some random place (usually crest) waiting for sl to go back up and hoping no hybrids see me
log off
yeah, i like to pk everyone i see (i usually dont pk people that look like complete noobs) and i think that more people should, to create diversity to the game etc
The main problem is that Neocron advertises that you can be "anything you want to be". Yet if you kill someone (thus a murderer) the authorities don't come after you, you are just insta-fucked and drop like 5 or more items, can't get your backpack back, etc.
They went too far. Not being allowed in NC was good, and not being able to get your backpack from teh GR because NEXT hate PKers was fitting and RP. But dropping so many items? Insane. It has no plausible RP standing and scares the crap outta people so they dont PK. Id much rather it were just 2 items for PKs. Or maybe 3 for PKs and 2 for normal people if you like excitement. o_O
This game is getting to hard on the people who annoy you at first but make it much more fun in the long run = less high rank players having fun. :(
yeah, i like to pk everyone i see (i usually dont pk people that look like complete noobs) and i think that more people should, to create diversity to the game etc
my first day in neocron...i ran into pepperpark cuz someone was helping me...he told them not to shoot me cuz i was with him...but unfortunately...the pk'ers were on a roll killing others so they killed me too...and i didnt go "god this game sucks, i quit"...why would anyone say anything like that?...see i realized this a few days ago....so ima pk everyone that is hostile now...beware!!...lol :lol: dont get me wrong...it's nuthin against n00bs...if n00bs ask me for something...i usually give it to them...when they ask for money i give them 100k...hostile or not...i dont care....cuz it's just a game and im here to have fun...
neocron is extreme carebear central now so yeah theres no pkers left
no one playing this game can handle dying and losing some items, bunch of cry babies...
IronMonkey
05-08-03, 22:42
dream must be in tg on saturn =-p
Mumblyfish
05-08-03, 22:42
What the?
I get ganked while levelling at least twice per day. You must be in the same faction/clan as the PKers. And if you are, stop fucking complaining. You're the problem.
Originally posted by Mingerroo
The main problem is that Neocron advertises that you can be "anything you want to be". Yet if you kill someone (thus a murderer) the authorities don't come after you, you are just insta-fucked and drop like 5 or more items, can't get your backpack back, etc.
Then learn not to die if you want to be a bad MOFO.
Helen Angilley
05-08-03, 22:44
Originally posted by Dream
neocron is extreme carebear central now so yeah theres no pkers left
no one playing this game can handle dying and losing some items, bunch of cry babies...
So says someone hiding in the TG faction.
Originally posted by Archeus
Then learn not to die if you want to be a bad MOFO.
COME ON. I survive A LOT. But eventually we all have to die, and the fact is that either all players should drop 5 items, or all players should drop 1 item. They shouldn't be separated like this just because some people don't like fighting for themselves. I have just posted a thread on a new soullight idea so check that out, then come back and talk to me about this subject.
Clothing_Option
05-08-03, 23:10
Originally posted by Cryotchekk
(pluto) yeah, no good old pker's about (i would be pking if i had a better pc :()
now all high level tanks wich could be pk'ing are in tg clans, and are BORING. i know some people hate pk'ing, but some also enjoy hating pk'ers. there used to be carebare clans but where are they now? where are the all pk'ing clans? i feel that the game has lost a small touch to it that made it so great.
i remember january time when i made my first tank on pluto, i used to level all the time where hurlers and butchees spawn in storage 8, there used to be loads of people there (wich now i see none of) and there used to be some leet ??/45 players who ventured down to storage 8 (if your new to the game dont comment on that), and then all of a sudden some tg would come wipe everyone out. that, to me added a diversity to nc.
does anyone else feel that nc has lost this sort of little touch?
All i can say is in terms of TG like SpyvsSpy they are PKers
Cryotchekk
05-08-03, 23:12
i just went on a pking spree...
...but couldnt find anyone and my pc crashed when trying to gr to jeriko...fuck...
i hacked one belt though :(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(
Cryotchekk
05-08-03, 23:13
Originally posted by Clothing_Option
All i can say is in terms of TG like SpyvsSpy they are PKers
yeah ok so he/she pk's, but not to the same extent that say, crc did. do you see my point?
I wish I could stay red, that would be kool. But dropping 5 items would be too much.
I think all this could be fixed if KK would just implement clan wars fully.
I can't even attack NDA on pluto without losing SL. LAMEZERZ.
Cryotchekk
05-08-03, 23:15
Cryotchekk
old school pk'er
Registered: September 2002
Location: midian. the gates of. hell
Occupation: i work in a garden centre+body shop
Posts: 666
w00t
Clothing_Option
05-08-03, 23:31
Originally posted by Mumblyfish
What the?
I get ganked while levelling at least twice per day. You must be in the same faction/clan as the PKers. And if you are, stop fucking complaining. You're the problem.
what he said!
Pluto is loaded with assholes running around killing ppl way below them its a joke ask the crackheads, FA etc etc etc...
it doesnt do anything for the game in my opinion
why not just play a true FPS if that is what u want to do
Cryotchekk
05-08-03, 23:37
Originally posted by Clothing_Option
what he said!
Pluto is loaded with assholes running around killing ppl way below them its a joke ask the crackheads, FA etc etc etc...
it doesnt do anything for the game in my opinion
why not just play a true FPS if that is what u want to do
ugghhhh there are no real pker's on pluto!!! this is what im trying to say:
everyone now hides behind 'rpking' and faction killing and stops and -15 sl!!!!!! there used to be people who went on pking for ages no matter what sl or faction they were etc-the are pkers!
lol
I don't thinks some of you understand what it was like at the start of retail. You didn't lose SL for killing in noob zones. People would camp sewer entrance or kill everyone in cellar 4 all day long. It was several thousand times worse than it is now. ;)
Maybe it's being a FA right now but I NEVER get attacked. None of my noob characters do either. I just leveled a FA apu monk on pluto. I didnt avoid aggie cellar or MB like I tell everyone to.... I was attacked ONCE by some fuckwit higher rank than me and killed him myself. All the pkers got banned or bored :lol:
I leveled Jack Drake in the KHANS (tangent) at start of retail :lol: :lol: :lol:.
I got killed 30x a day 8| you all got it easy!!!!11
/edit
maybe things will go back again soon. ACTKYC and crackheads are around again :)
Originally posted by gostly
my first day in neocron...i ran into pepperpark cuz someone was helping me...he told them not to shoot me cuz i was with him...but unfortunately...the pk'ers were on a roll killing others so they killed me too...and i didnt go "god this game sucks, i quit"...why would anyone say anything like that?...see i realized this a few days ago....so ima pk everyone that is hostile now...beware!!...lol :lol: dont get me wrong...it's nuthin against n00bs...if n00bs ask me for something...i usually give it to them...when they ask for money i give them 100k...hostile or not...i dont care....cuz it's just a game and im here to have fun...
Originally posted by gostly it's just a game and im here to have fun...
Exactly;)
yep you all pkers got soft there are very few clans that accually fight eachother .... i think gang, ta , and the fa clans need to get up off there knees and put there meat on the table if u know what i mean... start fighting eachother u guys are huge clans and allied maybe if everyone trys to stick with one to 2 allies then the game would get live agian but right now everyone is in tg or fa allied clans so they dont have to fight eachother.... fa was founded on runners
Originally posted by Drake6k
lol
I don't thinks some of you understand what it was like at the start of retail. You didn't lose SL for killing in noob zones. People would camp sewer entrance or kill everyone in cellar 4 all day long. It was several thousand times worse than it is now. ;)
Maybe it's being a FA right now but I NEVER get attacked. None of my noob characters do either. I just leveled a FA apu monk on pluto. I didnt avoid aggie cellar or MB like I tell everyone to.... I was attacked ONCE by some fuckwit higher rank than me and killed him myself. All the pkers got banned or bored :lol:
I leveled Jack Drake in the KHANS (tangent) at start of retail :lol: :lol: :lol:.
I got killed 30x a day 8| you all got it easy!!!!11
/edit
maybe things will go back again soon. ACTKYC and crackheads are around again :)
Yeah i was bad at the start of retail lol and for a good while after to, but these penalties now were to stop the pointless butchering in the aggie pits.
having said that I do kinda miss the regulars like eric schneider who would come on pluto on sundays nites like clockwork and cause havoc in p2 and p1 aggies pits lol
yep you all pkers got soft there are very few clans that accually fight eachother .... i think gang, ta , and the fa clans need to get up off there knees and put there meat on the table if u know what i mean... start fighting eachother u guys are huge clans and allied maybe if everyone trys to stick with one to 2 allies then the game would get live agian but right now everyone is in tg or fa allied clans so they dont have to fight eachother.... fa was founded on runners
this is why im trying to get serve to switch us to BD...even tho lots of people in TA are still saying "ill be TG forever, blah blah blah"...i dont see it as a disloyalty to TG or clanmates or friends...i see it as starting something up to have fun...wars are all we have in this game now...and i love the combat system for neocron...even tho some may disagree...i just wish people would stop holding things against people for being hostile...(now im going back on what i used to say when nexx left TG and joined BD and ended up raiding the canyon and such)...i see what he was doing...some people say that if you're bored with the game then quit and play somethin else...but if you ask me...anyone who is capped and doesnt tradeskill will be bored without pvp...so how many people is that on pluto?...
Voodoochicken
06-08-03, 01:41
blah blah.. (i'm not reading all that just to say what I've got to say)
I got pked near MB yesterday (GMT).
I was droning and assumed I got hit by a cyberbeatle or something annoying.. so I was generally tootling back towards my body with my drone.
Of course.. being a droner, I tend to die on the second point blank CS volley to the head.. so.. I died.
and being a droner (and because I hadn't dropped my drone) I had no idea who killed me, or why, or what faction they were.. .or anything....
I could see them from my dead position.. .a rather generic looking tank... hmn.. useful.
They then spent several CS clips blowing up my hovertech and went away.
My killer said nothing, so I didn't get a name that way either...
So.. I assure everyone that there are still people about that kill defenceless runners w/o explanation or, in fact, any point at all (other than force me to make another hovertech).
Put your LE in. There is nothing besides killing, and the most fun ones are usually the ones who get pissed off about being defenceless.
Voodoochicken
06-08-03, 03:21
Originally posted by hnlecter
Put your LE in. There is nothing besides killing, and the most fun ones are usually the ones who get pissed off about being defenceless.
I don't know if you're responding to my post or not. :confused:
I hope not, as I'd like to credit you with some intelligence. But just incase, I'll try to explain again:
1: Someone killed me whilst I was utterly defenceless.
2: I didn't find out their name, either through the local list, or by them bragging or saying how they "pwned" me.
So the point is:
Even if I had been annoyed (rather than perplexed) they wouldn't have known either way..
Maybe that's why they stayed anonymous.. so they could fantasize about me being emotionally devastated?
Promethius
06-08-03, 03:39
Originally posted by Cryotchekk
(pluto) yeah, no good old pker's about (i would be pking if i had a better pc :()
now all high level tanks wich could be pk'ing are in tg clans, and are BORING. i know some people hate pk'ing, but some also enjoy hating pk'ers. there used to be carebare clans but where are they now? where are the all pk'ing clans? i feel that the game has lost a small touch to it that made it so great.
i remember january time when i made my first tank on pluto, i used to level all the time where hurlers and butchees spawn in storage 8, there used to be loads of people there (wich now i see none of) and there used to be some leet ??/45 players who ventured down to storage 8 (if your new to the game dont comment on that), and then all of a sudden some tg would come wipe everyone out. that, to me added a diversity to nc.
does anyone else feel that nc has lost this sort of little touch?
Well as a Pker i would have to say that SL has slowed me down ALOT. before i would hit -15 do 2 or 3 aggys which would take of all one minute. then to teh streets i hit. But then that terrible 1 SL pt per mission came. so that slowed eveyrthing. Also losing SL for killing in hunting zones which i always thought was lame. Also the reward for killing isn't as great. Like having an item drop on the ground but now its quick belts. Which kinda suck unles u got a hacker and asa tank i finding hackin belts rather hard ^^.
Like the previous MMORPGs I have played they start off hard and tough and over time people complain and the game gets more carebear.
Remember Jumpgate and how that used to be, until they stuck in those regulated sectors and unregulated sectors.
I think that dropping 5 items is too much really, what I think is that if you get to - 15 in any faction thats allied with city admin then you should not be able to access the grs in any copbot protected areas.
At -30 soul light you drop 3 items
At -50 soul light you drop 5 items
And if you get to -100 then you are unable to get your soul light up ever again, a way this could be done is to have it so if you have -100 missions can not be accepted or viewed.
Also soul light lose needs to be altered, if you have 100 and you kill someone then let it drop to 75, then 50, then 25 then -4.
I have noticed that there is very little pking going on, I haven't had a call out to the aggie sewers in ages, unless its to do with another enemy clan fighting us or an ally.
Join ACTKYC - A clan that kills your clan
we finally got back on our feet, and we desperatly need members
theres a PK clan for u :P
Promethius
06-08-03, 05:01
The prob isn't just theres no Pkers....cuz trust me there out there. But also finding people to PK is alot harder. I mean ur not gunna go hit a sewers. or attempt losing SL. The main choices u have WERE crp / cycrow / MB / pepper 1. Well no more crp / cycrow cuz well we own teh GR and only allies can get here ^^. So MB is overly PKed so there are slim pickings. After a while it gets kinda broin killin a 0/2. Don't get me wrong if i see u without LE i'm commin for ya but I'm not gunna go running around the map lookin for em.
Wat i suggest is we take away hunting zones and start getting carebears to USE le's. and the rest taht don't....=). Pepper park has become lame over the time. Just too many people, copbots and zoners jsut piss me off to much.
So overall with the combination of new patches it has made the life of a Pker tuff. Also there should be a faction or a NO faction where u can kill at will a true Pkers faction or watever. no sympathy loss or SL loss. even for killing other in the same faction / no faction. (i kno we havea no faction but its just neutral to everyone =\).
Cmon give teh Pkers some luv. They are teh spice to this taco of a game.
Promethius
06-08-03, 05:10
Originally posted by Flea
i love u
lmao.
I HATE PKERS THEY SUCK 10000% PS THEY ARE ALSO ALL 12 AND KILL NOOBS ALL DAY BECAUSE THEY ARE SCARED OF EVERYBODY AND HAVE A BAD LIFE AND SMOKE CRACK
so do you want pker's or not? most of the time when i attack some one and dont kill/dont kill them, they start dm'ing me saying "wtf?"
Do you really want ppl like me coming down into aggy cellar and pking ppl? I would but like other ppl have pointed out its not worth me loosing equipment like a 4 slotted cs over the stupid SL system, hmmmm maybe ill get a cpl of plasma cannons made....
Originally posted by Helen Angilley
So says someone hiding in the TG faction.
Have been TG for a few days now, after being BD for months.
Only TG to go to FA, had to bounce.
Good job. You don't know me, so don't pretend to.
Cryotchekk
06-08-03, 12:29
a few things
flea: actkyc was only really god coz of cryptocronic, joystick, and tactics
prom: you still get more than 1 sl for a mission, its like bugged or sumthing, i went from -10 to -3 :/
jack drake (*coughipwndj00!:D*) i was around in early days (december) and i much prefered it then, im not saying that gr camping is good, though it was somewhat fun when there was like 600 people on pluto etc.
I kill faction enemies because at my level it seems I do not lose SL for killing them :D Go me. I PK CA only because it fits in with the idea of faction politics, but I PK because of the loot I get.
From my own kills I have:
Numerous high end armour pieces.
An Exp heart 2 (Just looted from their WB apparently)
A few guns
Yeah the odd medkit
A lot of very decent level 3 imps (some store-buyable but still expensive)
From belts from other obvious PK situations:
A HAS tank PA. This thing is worth approx 100k in the shops and can be used to get that new monk PA, so its definitely a good find.
Other stuff (I forget)
The point is with the new belt and drop system PKing is a profitable business. And yeah I bitch about the possibility of dropping 5 items, but at the same time this benefits my profession hugely :D
Originally posted by Cryotchekk
i see what u mean, but gang vs pimp was big, now clans that are enemy's (factions that is) allie, that is just bollocks to me
"Keep your friends close, your enemies closer"
:D
Centuri has a point, hopefully before the game goes totally melt down another will come out. (hopefully not)
Originally posted by Cryotchekk
(i would be pking if i had a better pc :()
Liar :p
You killed my lowbie cst-er about a week back in the aggy cellars by shooting him in the back, you eval peekaer :D
I went on a spree at CRP lastnight.... then like 4 TT came and got me 8| :(
need more enemies of TG to be more pvp active...lol...i killed a n00b today (in a n00b clan)...and one of his clanmates came in and attacked me with what im guessing to be a TPC...i dont remember if he zoned out after rushing at me and having me hit him a few times or if he died...didnt really care...lol...without pk'ers neocron would be boring...so dont hate us for adding fun to the game...whether you like it or not...personally...i usually dont like attacking someone if they wont attack back...like i'll shoot a hostile once or twice to see if he pulls a weapon...if not i usually let him go...or i kill him...all depending on how im feeling at the time....
oh and i think ima stay off of neocron for a while...downloaded asherons call2 trial (15 days...w00t)...i played back in beta and liked it...but now im really into it...just got done playing it for like 5 hours straight by myself...getting a couple more friends to play with me today...should be even more fun ;)
/me read 5 pages of posts.
Hmm yes there is a lot less PK'ing from my point of view.
Also I reckon I got PK'ed Tangent Technologies runner, than as a Fallen Angels's runner. What I mean by PK'ed is someone killing runner's at a leveling spot, rather than getting killed during clan wars or during faction raids. (NDA how many tags of me have you lot got now?:D)
When I was a low level character, I remember being on edge, keeping a look out for PK'ers, which leveling down the Cellas, and then suddenly going "Oh crap..." when someone like Smokey turned up, to do some "weapons testing" in the cellars. :)
Originally posted by \\Fényx//
I went on a spree at CRP lastnight.... then like 4 TT came and got me 8| :(
Thats why I love Stealthing, i kill a bunch of people and when it gets too heavy i just stealth and leave. KNOW YOUR LIMITS!!!
PKing noobs is no use to you, your clan or your faction and causes negative SL. Now that SL is a pain in the arse to get up people have stopped needlessly PKing. Fighting in PP and MB is still a regular thing but its between clans of high ranking players not no-life gimps (gimps who say theres no OP fights just mean "Theres no OP fights I know I'm going to win") picking on noobs. Pluto is a far better server than it was at the start of the year. All we need is an influx of new players, maybe 2000/3000 would be nice :)
One of my first best fights that I remember was actually in the aggie sewers. I heard that one of my mates had just been killed.
So I went to plaza 2 aggie sewer and meet up with Derisor he told me that he had just been shot in the back by a madj member while he was leveling. We where standing in the first room where you can zone into and out off and Derisor started talking to there leader and why he got killed. After a few minutes I decided to try and get them both to just stop arguing and be friends. Madj didn't seem to answer, a few minutes on and another 2 madj came down, odds where 4 to 1 now. I told madj that I would help derisor if they tried anything. A couple of minutes later another 4 or so had come down.
Then one of there low level psi monks took a shot at derisor and all hell broke lose. Pitspawn on his new char PE was also leveling a couple of rooms away so he came in aswell, with our EPR's firing and pitspawns assault rifle I think going we had one hell of a fight, 8 vs 3 odds.
We lost in the end but took down at least 6 of them but these sort of fights dont happen anymore and I miss them. We need more options of where we can fight.
At the start we could fight in the aggie sewers, pepper park and outpost sectors without fear of losing soul light, but now its all changed. :(
Originally posted by cracky
I HATE PKERS THEY SUCK 10000% PS THEY ARE ALSO ALL 12 AND KILL NOOBS ALL DAY BECAUSE THEY ARE SCARED OF EVERYBODY AND HAVE A BAD LIFE AND SMOKE CRACK
u almost cost me a keyboard full of coffee with that :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Originally posted by cracky
I HATE PKERS THEY SUCK 10000% PS THEY ARE ALSO ALL 12 AND KILL NOOBS ALL DAY BECAUSE THEY ARE SCARED OF EVERYBODY AND HAVE A BAD LIFE AND SMOKE CRACK
Whatever you say Cracky ;-) Now get off your lazy ass and do some PKing!
Yes, NC got soft. Beta and start retail the world of Neocron was a dangerous one. You had to watch your back whatever you did. This is gone. It was for sure annoying at some times, especially when you got PKed right after you just recovered from the last PK, but seeing it on a more global perspective it added much more to the game. There were some emotions involved what made the game more fun. There we people you really liked that helped you out in a situation where you wouldnt stand a chance and there were people you really hated for being the reason of that situation ;-) This is gone too.
There was some madness back then. A crackhead attacking you and coming after you again after he died. And when you felt safe and was sure you would waste him a dozen more times, his sneaky motherfucker friend came a long shoting you in your back when you felt youre a safe and could stop for a minute to watch your back. It's hard to explain, but I miss it.
Nothing to lose, nothing to gain - this is what we have today...
It's not gone downhill. The attitude has changed because people know each other (or thier clan).
Legion would be as close to the old skool PK'ers of 4-5 months ago.
Everyone else is... well best way to explain is my first (and generally last) visit to Siege Perilous (UO PK server). Note: this is a true story.
Running around for ages looking for someone to kill I finally find someone cutting wood (translation: Trader).
"haahaa prepare to die!" I scream.
"Hang on a second I'm busy"
"o_O I said you are going to die"
"I said I'm busy"
"Supposing I attack you now?"
"Well I would be upset"
"But I am evil and kill people it's what I do. You being upset shouldn't matter"
"Well you have a point but I'm almost done."
(stupid me)
"Ok I'll wait" ... "Now?"
"Almost"
"I KILL YOU NOW!"
"Ok ready *WHACK*"
Me -> OooOoOooo (translation: 'crap I'm dead').
a bif problem is that as has already been stated, a lot of you are all friends now even though in diffrent clans.
only just came to pluto as a BD monk, and first thing i see are some tsunami and BD standing togeather chatting in PP, umm though 2 factions should be at each others throats.
on saturn theres a clan called Afterdark who are tangent, though the major members were all former TG runners, but they had no probs killing there old TG friends.
same as i have no prob killing my old TG allies from my crahn days
maybe enemies should stop being so nice to wach other and kill one another a bit more then we will have lots of pking :D
Clownst0pper
06-08-03, 17:47
Ikari - Blade - Syreus - Andy Constable
Come join in our fun on Saturn.
Spy<VS>Spy
06-08-03, 18:00
Originally posted by Cryotchekk
(pluto) yeah, no good old pker's about (i would be pking if i had a better pc :()
now all high level tanks wich could be pk'ing are in tg clans, and are BORING. i know some people hate pk'ing, but some also enjoy hating pk'ers. there used to be carebare clans but where are they now? where are the all pk'ing clans? i feel that the game has lost a small touch to it that made it so great.
i remember january time when i made my first tank on pluto, i used to level all the time where hurlers and butchees spawn in storage 8, there used to be loads of people there (wich now i see none of) and there used to be some leet ??/45 players who ventured down to storage 8 (if your new to the game dont comment on that), and then all of a sudden some tg would come wipe everyone out. that, to me added a diversity to nc.
does anyone else feel that nc has lost this sort of little touch?
People get too pissed off when i kill them, "oh you should have told me to stop doing this or to do that..." blah blah blah and when i actually do talk before killing all i get is shit back...it saves allot of time and effort to gank first, talk about it later.
but the problem is the reward, its possible i cangeta reward if i kill people in anarchy zones, they drop a belt. its very seldom the guy will drop anything good, monks tend to be richer targets, their spells are worth good stuff and their power armor is a juicy incentive to loot for, but with the slot one stuff generally spys the best your gona get is their stealth device and tanks...i dont know...armor.
then there is the soul light, to the victor go the penelty's, keeping the riff raff out of TG has me running more cave crawler missions then i care for...
We at leagion consider almost anything red fair game, but we arnt a big clan, so we dont get much notice...i mean, crackheads for instance can get like 15-20 guys locking down a zone easy...
now in the good old days, it didnt matter if the other team had say 5 more guys then you, or 2-3 to one for you. if they sucked, they sucked. but a few passive monks, even with half brain dead people, make fights more drawn out then they should be.
and i am seeing the monk problem swell even further in clans, pretty much building around the PPU with a couple of APU's or a tank. it just takes so much effort to kill a ppu monk, and very little effort for a monk to restore anouther player...i see an inevitable nerf coming soon the lengivity of the never ending heal and rez fights.
Promethius
06-08-03, 19:01
Originally posted by ezza
a bif problem is that as has already been stated, a lot of you are all friends now even though in diffrent clans.
only just came to pluto as a BD monk, and first thing i see are some tsunami and BD standing togeather chatting in PP, umm though 2 factions should be at each others throats.
on saturn theres a clan called Afterdark who are tangent, though the major members were all former TG runners, but they had no probs killing there old TG friends.
same as i have no prob killing my old TG allies from my crahn days
maybe enemies should stop being so nice to wach other and kill one another a bit more then we will have lots of pking :D
Well i am good friends with some of the After Dark you mentioned. Yet we still fight when we can of course we have our times when we jsut chill and chat. But theres no stopping in OP wars or anything.
Promethius
06-08-03, 19:07
Originally posted by Spy<VS>Spy
People get too pissed off when i kill them, "oh you should have told me to stop doing this or to do that..." blah blah blah and when i actually do talk before killing all i get is shit back...it saves allot of time and effort to gank first, talk about it later.
but the problem is the reward, its possible i cangeta reward if i kill people in anarchy zones, they drop a belt. its very seldom the guy will drop anything good, monks tend to be richer targets, their spells are worth good stuff and their power armor is a juicy incentive to loot for, but with the slot one stuff generally spys the best your gona get is their stealth device and tanks...i dont know...armor.
then there is the soul light, to the victor go the penelty's, keeping the riff raff out of TG has me running more cave crawler missions then i care for...
We at leagion consider almost anything red fair game, but we arnt a big clan, so we dont get much notice...i mean, crackheads for instance can get like 15-20 guys locking down a zone easy...
now in the good old days, it didnt matter if the other team had say 5 more guys then you, or 2-3 to one for you. if they sucked, they sucked. but a few passive monks, even with half brain dead people, make fights more drawn out then they should be.
and i am seeing the monk problem swell even further in clans, pretty much building around the PPU with a couple of APU's or a tank. it just takes so much effort to kill a ppu monk, and very little effort for a monk to restore anouther player...i see an inevitable nerf coming soon the lengivity of the never ending heal and rez fights.
Well about the people complaining. Honestly i jsut laugh when i hear a newby or watever cry bout how unfair i kileld htem or hwo much stronger i am then them and i shouldn't be attackin them. I either say join the faction or pop ur LE in. Its more or less jsut amuzing nowadays.
Also about the ppu monks. Its true. One good ppu can make 5 shit ass tanks damn near unbeatable. No complaints really cuz i use a ppu aswell. But I use to love peppar park fights. Though as i remmebr tehre weren't alot of ppus (if any). Just some medium to high lv tank would come rollin around and i would pwn em or they would zone and bitch at me in DM. Those were the days. Also i remmeber formina nice group of TGs and tried to put a tax in pp1. It was funny shit. but it was fun.
Well, part of the problem is the sl but the real problem is the same one that is messing up most of the game.
The population and no new people is the problem. There are no noobs that want to make their own name, there are no people out for revenge and are leveling up desperatly to be able to do something about it.
Since no new people are coming in everybody has a different mentality then beta everybody joins a clan that is winning barely anybody can actually start a clan.
Now since everybody is clanned and nobody is out for themselves anymore this makes it so the lone pker or group of friends pkers will always be out numbered no matter what they do.
Unless this game picks up sales somehow everything that made beta great will fade away into the retail mentality.
IMO the problem is that KK forgot to make being a criminal viable. The current SL system encourages us to be good and strictly reprimands us for being bad. The system should be neutral, being good or bad should be our choice. You should be able to be stay Red and exist perfectly fine, though ofcourse it should be more difficult. As with anything else in the game each side should have bonuses and negatives. Right now Good has it all and Evil has nothing. As a Tsunami I want to be red, I want my status as a criminal to mean something! Right now though you've got to be crazy to stay red. Drop 5 items each time you die, have a huge ass target on your ass so everyone will attack you, being shot on sight by uber copbots. Thats stupid!
The copbots should be toned down or reduced to more key points in Neocron. As a ppu monk I'm the only class in neocron that could actualy survive copbot fire. You should be able to exist in Neocron, dodging from corner to corner and not be demolished by a copbot through the wall in a couple hits. The Mutants are supposed to be pretty organized, we should have an area in which the Mutants have most of the necessary shops/resources for a player. So if you're KOS to copbots, you can fall back and live decently in the Underground. Every player drops 1 item, no exceptions. When you kill a red runner, you should be able to take his dogtags in to NCPD and get a bounty reward based on the SL of the person. There ya go, people have a reason to be good and hunt down evil people. Yet also people could be evil if they want to and have it be perfectly viable.
Damn that would be awesome, the bad guys going on killing sprees and on their tail are the good guys hoping to get some cash for taking down the bad guys.
Originally posted by Promethius
Well i am good friends with some of the After Dark you mentioned. Yet we still fight when we can of course we have our times when we jsut chill and chat. But theres no stopping in OP wars or anything.
depends where your chatting though really, in plaza np with that, but if its in a zone were fighting happens always think its a bit lame to stand chatting with the enemy, went to CRP for some fun last night, saw a TG and CA talkingo_O so i pk'd the TG, if i wasnt in such of good mood i would of smoked the CA for plotting with a TG;)
the old PK days were cool when you didnt lose SL for killing, but the problem was it made the factions meaningless, need to be a system that allows mindless Pking and faction roleplaying.
if it wasnt for my loyalty to my clan i would of become BD ages ago and been doing a lot of killing
Originally posted by ezza
a bif problem is that as has already been stated, a lot of you are all friends now even though in diffrent clans.
only just came to pluto as a BD monk, and first thing i see are some tsunami and BD standing togeather chatting in PP, umm though 2 factions should be at each others throats.
on saturn theres a clan called Afterdark who are tangent, though the major members were all former TG runners, but they had no probs killing there old TG friends.
same as i have no prob killing my old TG allies from my crahn days
maybe enemies should stop being so nice to wach other and kill one another a bit more then we will have lots of pking :D
This is pretty much the current problem of Saturn. Clans should guide for interests and factions, not for old good friends and fear to big clans.
I appreciate the valour of After Dark or Mercs of Destruction, and totally blame the alliances based in real life nationalities, or good frienships with enemy clan factions (not suggesting anyone specially in Saturn, otherwise I would say names).
Originally posted by Promethius
Also about the ppu monks. Its true. One good ppu can make 5 shit ass tanks damn near unbeatable. No complaints really cuz i use a ppu aswell. But I use to love peppar park fights. Though as i remmebr tehre weren't alot of ppus (if any). Just some medium to high lv tank would come rollin around and i would pwn em or they would zone and bitch at me in DM. Those were the days. Also i remmeber formina nice group of TGs and tried to put a tax in pp1. It was funny shit. but it was fun.
I liked you much more in those times, when your friends were your weapons, and you cared by yourself and the faction you belonged.
However those times are past, even for you and your ideals, you just have changed, and also the current system do not benefit pk'ers too much.
As I have said, many things have changed, and the problem is that people have changed aswell.
@Carinth,
I agree with your post, as with many other posts saying the same thing. The current SL/drop system is not neutral, simply the 5 items drop is an unfair solution; as some people have suggested, to stop runner actions, not breaking the rules of the game, you have to use another runners. Make an effective bounty system for low soullight runners, allow missions inside the game to pick aleatory bad soullight runners and hunt them down across the wastes... these are ideas which would work perfectly in the game, and still would allow the people the freedom of choice.
As it is now even the criminals are scared to play their role, they are punished for it, why they should then. Losing 5 items, sorry to say, is a very carebear rule, to avoid being killed you have a LE; this is only leading us to a boring game, full of old legends and better past times.
When the first slot safe came, I was pleased, because now the fights would be until the end, and not dragging the weapon to inventory; but the belt drop system and the 5 items penalyzation is a way to stop people making profit of PvP.
Before this, PK was a very profitable profesion, now it is hack... how many pk tanks can afford hacking, how many monks, how many rifle PE's... just some few people can be full combat oriented and still have hack, and even if everyone could afford those points, we still would have a tradeskill to make profit, not the pk itself.
I say no to belts, I say no to 5 items drop, personally I dont care about first slot safe or not, and I say rework the soullight system, to allow players their own solutions with criminals. Just make equally profitable to hunt down evil players, and many people would play that role.
Originally posted by Centuri
One of my first best fights that I remember was actually in the aggie sewers. I heard that one of my mates had just been killed.
So I went to plaza 2 aggie sewer and meet up with Derisor he told me that he had just been shot in the back by a madj member while he was leveling. We where standing in the first room where you can zone into and out off and Derisor started talking to there leader and why he got killed. After a few minutes I decided to try and get them both to just stop arguing and be friends. Madj didn't seem to answer, a few minutes on and another 2 madj came down, odds where 4 to 1 now. I told madj that I would help derisor if they tried anything. A couple of minutes later another 4 or so had come down.
Then one of there low level psi monks took a shot at derisor and all hell broke lose. Pitspawn on his new char PE was also leveling a couple of rooms away so he came in aswell, with our EPR's firing and pitspawns assault rifle I think going we had one hell of a fight, 8 vs 3 odds.
We lost in the end but took down at least 6 of them but these sort of fights dont happen anymore and I miss them. We need more options of where we can fight.
At the start we could fight in the aggie sewers, pepper park and outpost sectors without fear of losing soul light, but now its all changed. :(
ROFL I STARTED THAT FIGHT! :) I remember that too, it was like.. a few days after release. Things were tense as hell, and then I go "Ok guys cover me" on TS and open up with my NOOB ENERGY BOLT OF DOOM. Then we all killed each other.
I agree the penalties for sl really pissed me off because kk used to always say bad sl is just a way of life not a punishment or something like that.
Also oz was supposed to be a home for people with bad sl who couldn't go to the city but that never happened.
Yeh I think it's daft taking sl hits for killing peaple in enemy factions. Factions should be protecting there weaker players, not game mechanics. Especially with the Faction sypathy system they have. BD who is enemy to just about every one are really fucked. Clans like NDA formed to protect the players in the city. An before they put these changes in they were doing a fairly good job. So why did we need these changes?
Pking is fun... but with the new sl system, it sucks. I go around killing people (just cuz) and i end up with neg 28sl after that i think it took me an hour of aggie missions to go positive...
Originally posted by Spy<VS>Spy
but the problem is the reward, its possible i cangeta reward if i kill people in anarchy zones, they drop a belt. its very seldom the guy will drop anything good, monks tend to be richer targets, their spells are worth good stuff and their power armor is a juicy incentive to loot for, but with the slot one stuff generally spys the best your gona get is their stealth device and tanks...i dont know...armor.
Yea. IMO the hackable belt idea is stupid. I can NEVER EVER loot the enemy I kill, because for me to have enough hacking to hack belts requires MAJOR gimpage for my apu.
Not only that but it seems PPUs are the only ones that drop valuable ROOT.
Originally posted by Spy<VS>Spy
and i am seeing the monk problem swell even further in clans, pretty much building around the PPU with a couple of APU's or a tank. it just takes so much effort to kill a ppu monk, and very little effort for a monk to restore anouther player...i see an inevitable nerf coming soon the lengivity of the never ending heal and rez fights.
Yea, I hope the apu doesn't get nerfed, lol. The only reason apu is needed at op wars is to counter ppus, but if you don't have ppus then there's no NEED for an apu, further proving the imbalance of PPUs.
Promethius
07-08-03, 08:08
Originally posted by ezza
depends where your chatting though really, in plaza np with that, but if its in a zone were fighting happens always think its a bit lame to stand chatting with the enemy, went to CRP for some fun last night, saw a TG and CA talkingo_O so i pk'd the TG, if i wasnt in such of good mood i would of smoked the CA for plotting with a TG;)
the old PK days were cool when you didnt lose SL for killing, but the problem was it made the factions meaningless, need to be a system that allows mindless Pking and faction roleplaying.
if it wasnt for my loyalty to my clan i would of become BD ages ago and been doing a lot of killing
Nah. Our friendship and battles were to seperate things. When ever there was a fight there was no holding back or toning it down. We just fought and didn't take anything personal. We still chatted a bit no harsh feelings =P.
IronMonkey
07-08-03, 08:48
only problem with your idea about tags being worth money is think of whats enemy faction freinds would do together in their apt. knowing they could get crazy cash for tags of red sl...great idea but highly exploitable
Originally posted by IronMonkey
only problem with your idea about tags being worth money is think of whats enemy faction freinds would do together in their apt. knowing they could get crazy cash for tags of red sl...great idea but highly exploitable
Two changes can fix that. First, in order to be on the bounty list you would hafta be evil for a set amount of time. The idea being that a petty thief isn't worth the time/money to kill, it's not until you're more notorious that you warrant a bounty. This would give a nice grace period for accidents (killing yos). Second, the amount of money your dt are worth should start low and actualy decrease each time your dog tags are cashed in. Thus a criminal who is being killed quite often is a crappy criminal and not worthy of a high bounty. If the bounty goes below a certain point then the criminal is removed from the bounty list entirely. Bounties should increase not only with lower SL, but also with length of time since bounties were cashed in on them. The super villians are rarely ever caught and are thus worth the most if you can catch them. These would be our infamous pk'rs that terrorize the streets. I'm not sure why ya mentioned faction, that should have nothing to do with this. Your appearance as red to a hostile faction is not related to your appearance as red due to SL. In order to exploit this you would need to have a person go evil and stay evil for a set amount of time, then manage not to be killed for a long time and then one day kill them with your alt and bring in the cash. I admit that's still possible, with the badguy idling in his apt to raise bounty. Though we could use the current system were SL raises slowly while you're online. You have to actively work at staying evil in order to keep your SL down and bounty up. If you go through that much trouble, I don't see why we shouldn't let you have your cash reward. It's not worse then people muling between characters. It's certainly not as bad as players killing their alts repeatedly for sl/symp gain.
Imagine going to NCPD and looking at the current list of Known Criminals. Ooooh looks like X has been a naughty runner, while Y isn't on the list anymore, I guess he cleaned up. Later on you come accross X and blast him into the ground, return to NCPD and you've got a nice 10k in your pocket. Of course X is just as likely to follow you home and return the favor. X's reward is simply the thrill of killing, and getting some revenge, of course whatever you drop in your belt is nice also.
Cryotchekk
07-08-03, 12:04
Originally posted by Carinth
Two changes can fix that. First, in order to be on the bounty list you would hafta be evil for a set amount of time. The idea being that a petty thief isn't worth the time/money to kill, it's not until you're more notorious that you warrant a bounty. This would give a nice grace period for accidents (killing yos). Second, the amount of money your dt are worth should start low and actualy decrease each time your dog tags are cashed in. Thus a criminal who is being killed quite often is a crappy criminal and not worthy of a high bounty. If the bounty goes below a certain point then the criminal is removed from the bounty list entirely. Bounties should increase not only with lower SL, but also with length of time since bounties were cashed in on them. The super villians are rarely ever caught and are thus worth the most if you can catch them. These would be our infamous pk'rs that terrorize the streets. I'm not sure why ya mentioned faction, that should have nothing to do with this. Your appearance as red to a hostile faction is not related to your appearance as red due to SL. In order to exploit this you would need to have a person go evil and stay evil for a set amount of time, then manage not to be killed for a long time and then one day kill them with your alt and bring in the cash. I admit that's still possible, with the badguy idling in his apt to raise bounty. Though we could use the current system were SL raises slowly while you're online. You have to actively work at staying evil in order to keep your SL down and bounty up. If you go through that much trouble, I don't see why we shouldn't let you have your cash reward. It's not worse then people muling between characters. It's certainly not as bad as players killing their alts repeatedly for sl/symp gain.
Imagine going to NCPD and looking at the current list of Known Criminals. Ooooh looks like X has been a naughty runner, while Y isn't on the list anymore, I guess he cleaned up. Later on you come accross X and blast him into the ground, return to NCPD and you've got a nice 10k in your pocket. Of course X is just as likely to follow you home and return the favor. X's reward is simply the thrill of killing, and getting some revenge, of course whatever you drop in your belt is nice also.
heh thats a pretty great idea!!!
@opiate: yeah, i have a celeron 400 64mb ram with ati rage pro8mb wich can just about do nc, i can pk people that aint really gonna fight back loads (heh heh heh im such a cunt) but i tried to gr to jeriko but cant login now :/
lol i remember levelling at CRP on saturn back when i started, next ting u know , zones full of ppl shouting HATE are here STARKES eeeeeeeeeek lol pepole ran away some stayed and fought, I remember loads of times bitching at starkes stuff like ill get j00 when im levelled etc. I hated the HATE clan specailly vernichter (he ganked me and i dropped my 4 slot TPC) this led to arguements for days after lol (back when u dropped 1 item outta ur QB usually ur fav wep)
My point on this is even tho i hated being ganked by HATE and the like, it was kinda fun too, I remember the rush i used to get when runners like starkes turned up, U know what i mean?? Same when i used to PvP with some1, that doesnt seem to happen anymore. Its a shame taht theres no PKing now, it does add diversity to the game. I think if ur gonna PK however u gotta not carebout Neg SL and hunt with some weps u dont mind losing etc.
:eek: :eek: :lol: :eek: :eek:
KRIMINAL99
08-08-03, 02:36
IMO the reason there are no more pkers is there is no freaking point... You don't get anything by winning a battle ever since quickbelts have been locked. In addition to that with red sl you can lose your entire inventory and people can hack your belt with really low hack skill, not to mention anti pk mobs are probably going to have at least one hacker. In order for pking to be viable the way it was before you would either have to do it in large groups (Its hard enough to organize NONPK groups) Or have your own tradeskillers just to build the entire inventory you lose every time, make a full set of weapons and armour for every lost battle, If you want to be able to get enemy drops you 1. Can't play a tank, 2. Have to gimp your combat abilities somewhat, which is lame for a pker who is already going to be fighting against the odds. The truth is KK gave in to a bunch of whiny immature selfish crybabies who have now realized the game is boring as sh!! under the new rules and have left...
And btw, 99.99 percent of people who ever complained about pkers are hypocrytical- This is shown in their response to being attacked. That means that they would just as soon pk other players as the people they complain about. The only response of a true non hypocrytical anti-aggressionist is, Can you please not kill me, I didnt give you any reason to. I killed everyone in existance on Uranus and got that response from one person, 2 max. "Hey you stupid f###er" and all the other pk responses means in reality those people are just mad that you killed them before they killed you, and their complaints are just primitive defense mechanisms to shield themselves from the possibility that they are not the best PVPer in the entire game.
Sorry I was in Europe I could be down for another Saturn Aggy room PKathon
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
IMO the reason there are no more pkers is there is no freaking point... You don't get anything by winning a battle ever since quickbelts have been locked. In addition to that with red sl you can lose your entire inventory and people can hack your belt with really low hack skill, not to mention anti pk mobs are probably going to have at least one hacker. In order for pking to be viable the way it was before you would either have to do it in large groups (Its hard enough to organize NONPK groups) Or have your own tradeskillers just to build the entire inventory you lose every time, make a full set of weapons and armour for every lost battle, If you want to be able to get enemy drops you 1. Can't play a tank, 2. Have to gimp your combat abilities somewhat, which is lame for a pker who is already going to be fighting against the odds. The truth is KK gave in to a bunch of whiny immature selfish crybabies who have now realized the game is boring as sh!! under the new rules and have left...
I disagree. Im a hacker/poker/PKer and the only reason I pk is because I know that 9/10 times there is something worthwhile in a belt. I like belts because they stop strangers just stealing your stuff (it needs to be hacked out), and it has been conjoined with the new dsrop rules of dropping something worthwhile, not just something out of your quicklist.
If they took out belts Id probably stop playing, as it is the only thing I really enjoy about the game (besides a few, "in the mean time" things). :D
Seriously though, the game is only boring because you don't get easy access to what they drop, but in the past that didnt matter because what they drop is shit. Now you have to fight (hack) for what you want off of them, and I couldnt agree more because a lot of people drop REALLY decent shit. :)
[EDIT] And PKing runners your level of an enemy faction results in no SL loss, so true RPKing is rewarded fully, with no drawbacks.
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
This is shown in their response to being attacked. That means that they would just as soon pk other players as the people they complain about. The only response of a true non hypocrytical anti-aggressionist is, Can you please not kill me, I didnt give you any reason to.
So someone isn't allowed to fucking defend themselves? Killing someone in 'defence' isn't PKing in my opinion, it's an alternative to standing there and having your arse handed to you on a golden plate.
I don't like PKers, yet if one of the fuckers jumps me I'm not going to stand there and ask him nicely not to turn me into barbequed smurf, I'm going to try and kill him so I don't die and have to stand around in Plaza 1 looking for pokes and hoping my QB hasn't been conviniently hacked.
Cryotchekk
08-08-03, 13:06
Originally posted by Xian
So someone isn't allowed to fucking defend themselves? Killing someone in 'defence' isn't PKing in my opinion, it's an alternative to standing there and having your arse handed to you on a golden plate.
I don't like PKers, yet if one of the fuckers jumps me I'm not going to stand there and ask him nicely not to turn me into barbequed smurf, I'm going to try and kill him so I don't die and have to stand around in Plaza 1 looking for pokes and hoping my QB hasn't been conviniently hacked.
thats the way to go!!!! dont be a spineless gimp and fight back!
Promethius
08-08-03, 17:25
Originally posted by Mingerroo
I disagree. Im a hacker/poker/PKer and the only reason I pk is because I know that 9/10 times there is something worthwhile in a belt. I like belts because they stop strangers just stealing your stuff (it needs to be hacked out), and it has been conjoined with the new dsrop rules of dropping something worthwhile, not just something out of your quicklist.
If they took out belts Id probably stop playing, as it is the only thing I really enjoy about the game (besides a few, "in the mean time" things). :D
Seriously though, the game is only boring because you don't get easy access to what they drop, but in the past that didnt matter because what they drop is shit. Now you have to fight (hack) for what you want off of them, and I couldnt agree more because a lot of people drop REALLY decent shit. :)
[EDIT] And PKing runners your level of an enemy faction results in no SL loss, so true RPKing is rewarded fully, with no drawbacks.
Hacker/poking/pker....well that means ur gimped to shit. After you go through the trouble Pkin a high lvled char they drop a belt. Then that person who just died teams up with someone else and bam they got there belt back. Cuz beina tank all i can do it jsut stare at this belt i can never retrieve. if u think 9/10 times there is sopmething worthwhile....well thats true if you a rank 0/2. ALl people drop is medkits , armor, or a suchy spell. (occasionaly u get something good from a monk but rarely).
So you say after u actually fight and kill them you also have to 'fight' (hack) for there belt? Wat i think should happen is the Pker should have access to teh belt while other runners around don't. I mean we already have a safe slot. So bam ur guaranteed ur favorite weapon is safe.
i nearly always drop armour though on occations my monk has dropped multiple psi cores and my ds
Spy<VS>Spy
08-08-03, 18:44
carinth has a darn good point though, only bad side to that is mine would be worth well... *peeks at average soul light rating* lets just say newbs with baseball bats would be waiting outside of my apartart for a chance to be set for life...
its a good plan though, something i really wouldnt mind doing. maybe make the job center actually useful and place some specail bounty NPC's or player listings. maybe each faction could have one. we would have to consider things like rank and stuff to avoid abuse, like you must be this rank or something to be on the bouny board and within so many levels to take the credit....
i had some stuff i wanted to talk about the ppu monk, but i think thats better for anouther post and i'm too lazy right now to fuss with it.
KRIMINAL99
08-08-03, 19:58
Originally posted by Mingerroo
[B]I disagree. Im a hacker/poker/PKer and the only reason I pk is because I know that 9/10 times there is something worthwhile in a belt. I like belts because they stop strangers just stealing your stuff (it needs to be hacked out), and it has been conjoined with the new dsrop rules of dropping something worthwhile, not just something out of your quicklist.
If they took out belts Id probably stop playing, as it is the only thing I really enjoy about the game (besides a few, "in the mean time" things). :D
Seriously though, the game is only boring because you don't get easy access to what they drop, but in the past that didnt matter because what they drop is shit. Now you have to fight (hack) for what you want off of them, and I couldnt agree more because a lot of people drop REALLY decent shit. :)
Well first of all your opinion is biased because you play a hacker. The point is only some character types can hack peoples belts now, and you can't play a pure combat character AND hack peoples belts too. Id be willing to bet the truth is you don't pk much at all... Its more likely that you pk pretty seldomly and just jackpot on all the locked quickbelts that everyone else leaves behind because they are combat only characters and can't hack them.
Second of all I dont know what your talking about when you say that people USED to drop crap stuff and drop better stuff now... Weapons are the most valuable items in the game becuase of slots and the best ones have to be hunted for in parts. Now people have a locked slot for them where as before there was always at LEAST a one in 10 chance of them dropping a cool weapon. IMO dropping a freaking piece of duranit armour only screws the person dropping it over without rewarding the winner much who then sells the armour for 2k at yos... You got that whole thing bass ackwards.
Furthermore quickbelts being locked doesn't stop strangers from looting your belt at all. Any hacker can wander up and hack it. It just greatly reduces the chance that someone who kills you will have any way to get his reward which is pretty f##ed up in my opinion. And no hacking isn't "fighting for the loot." Its just either you can hack or not and if you can you can loot ppls qbs if not then you don't get the pvp loot you earned. You fight for the loot when you are actually fighting. So if you left because of they fixed all these problems youd be alone and noone would care.
I suppose everyone is entilted to their own opinion I just wish opinions were valued by how unbiased and logical the person was being. You can post a perfectly unbiased, logical post and then some selfish person can make the total opposite and then its taken as if the 2 opinions were equal...
KRIMINAL99
08-08-03, 20:06
Originally posted by Xian
So someone isn't allowed to fucking defend themselves? Killing someone in 'defence' isn't PKing in my opinion, it's an alternative to standing there and having your arse handed to you on a golden plate.
I don't like PKers, yet if one of the fuckers jumps me I'm not going to stand there and ask him nicely not to turn me into barbequed smurf, I'm going to try and kill him so I don't die and have to stand around in Plaza 1 looking for pokes and hoping my QB hasn't been conviniently hacked.
No no Im not saying they are hypocrytical just cause they are defending themselves. Even most of the non hypocrites did that. Let me put it this way. When I was a known pker people would attack me on sight, and if I killed them then they would direct me and curse me out etc. They don't really believe it is wrong to kill other players, they are just mad that I killed them instead of the other way around. Before that I was a spy and just because they knew they could kill me, many of the same people who whined when i later pked them would threaten my spy and maybe even kill him. Once again they don't think its wrong to pk they are just mad they lost. Even If you just run up and kill someone youve never seen before and they direct you afterwords cursing you out it still shows that they would kill someone else themselves if given the chance.. but you really have to understand alot about psychology to understand why for that one.
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
Second of all I dont know what your talking about when you say that people USED to drop crap stuff and drop better stuff now... Weapons are the most valuable items in the game becuase of slots and the best ones have to be hunted for in parts. Now people have a locked slot for them where as before there was always at LEAST a one in 10 chance of them dropping a cool weapon. IMO dropping a freaking piece of duranit armour only screws the person dropping it over without rewarding the winner much who then sells the armour for 2k at yos... You got that whole thing bass ackwards.
Furthermore quickbelts being locked doesn't stop strangers from looting your belt at all. Any hacker can wander up and hack it. It just greatly reduces the chance that someone who kills you will have any way to get his reward which is pretty f##ed up in my opinion. And no hacking isn't "fighting for the loot." Its just either you can hack or not and if you can you can loot ppls qbs if not then you don't get the pvp loot you earned. You fight for the loot when you are actually fighting. So if you left because of they fixed all these problems youd be alone and noone would care.
I suppose everyone is entilted to their own opinion I just wish opinions were valued by how unbiased and logical the person was being. You can post a perfectly unbiased, logical post and then some selfish person can make the total opposite and then its taken as if the 2 opinions were equal...
OK, people used to drop psi boosters a lot of the time, now they drop armour, etc. Which = cash. Some times (fairly often for me) they drop level 3 chips, rare hearts and shit like that, expensive shit.
@whoever said im gimped, im really not, because I know what im doing i do more damage than a guy with the same gun and better stats than me (i dont kno how, prolly to do with base stats). But trust me, Im not gimped.
And back to the point about being a tank, a combatr char, and that Im biased because I can hack. THATS THE ENTIRE POINT OF HAVING MULTIPLE CLASSES. Without hackable belts the only thing worth hacking is OPs and doors. The idea is to mix classes etc, ups and downs of all classes and so on and so forth. I dont want tanks to be a one man army, but seemingly you do.
Hackable belts are in my opinion, and many others who get killed by mobs and dont have their stuff nabbed by a newb, a good thing :D
Tough shit if u cant hack :) You shoulda been a spy or hire another player.
Cryotchekk
08-08-03, 21:23
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
Well first of all your opinion is biased because you play a hacker. The point is only some character types can hack peoples belts now, and you can't play a pure combat character AND hack peoples belts too. Id be willing to bet the truth is you don't pk much at all... Its more likely that you pk pretty seldomly and just jackpot on all the locked quickbelts that everyone else leaves behind because they are combat only characters and can't hack them.
Second of all I dont know what your talking about when you say that people USED to drop crap stuff and drop better stuff now... Weapons are the most valuable items in the game becuase of slots and the best ones have to be hunted for in parts. Now people have a locked slot for them where as before there was always at LEAST a one in 10 chance of them dropping a cool weapon. IMO dropping a freaking piece of duranit armour only screws the person dropping it over without rewarding the winner much who then sells the armour for 2k at yos... You got that whole thing bass ackwards.
Furthermore quickbelts being locked doesn't stop strangers from looting your belt at all. Any hacker can wander up and hack it. It just greatly reduces the chance that someone who kills you will have any way to get his reward which is pretty f##ed up in my opinion. And no hacking isn't "fighting for the loot." Its just either you can hack or not and if you can you can loot ppls qbs if not then you don't get the pvp loot you earned. You fight for the loot when you are actually fighting. So if you left because of they fixed all these problems youd be alone and noone would care.
I suppose everyone is entilted to their own opinion I just wish opinions were valued by how unbiased and logical the person was being. You can post a perfectly unbiased, logical post and then some selfish person can make the total opposite and then its taken as if the 2 opinions were equal...
wrong wrong wrong.
first of all, i can hack and be combat, i mean, wtf are you thinking about? are you totally fucking mad? u can have 110 hack and still 130 wep lore?????????
second, mingoo does pk, because i do it with him
dropping armour can still mean lots to some people, like me, im totally fucking skint usually (well i have 500k now, woo go me!) and armour can mean lots, what if its psi armour or pa3, wich is like 160k
i dont mean to flame, but u just seem to post without reading anything logically, or knowing what your talking about
Originally posted by Mingerroo
I disagree. Im a hacker/poker/PKer and the only reason I pk is because I know that 9/10 times there is something worthwhile in a belt.
You'er a spy. Spies can hack without gimping their combat. My apu would suffer major gimpage if he attempted to get even 80 hack skill.
Originally posted by Mingerroo
If they took out belts Id probably stop playing, as it is the only thing I really enjoy about the game (besides a few, "in the mean time" things). :D
:rolleyes:
What a baby, seriously. "OMG IF THEY TOOK OUT ANTIBUFF I'LL STOP PLAYING".
Originally posted by Mingerroo
I couldnt agree more because a lot of people drop REALLY decent shit. :)
I dunno man, doesn't sound like you're a real pker. 99%(no exaggeration) of the people i've killed(and had gotten a friend to hack) either dropped anti shock fluid, psi booster, PANTS, or stamina booster. VERY RARELY do they ever drop something good. Only ppus have ever gave me kick ass l00t. Unless you pk500 people a day and 50 of them drop good stuff.
Originally posted by Mingerroo
[EDIT] And PKing runners your level of an enemy faction results in no SL loss, so true RPKing is rewarded fully, with no drawbacks.
Tank and apu can't hack. How are we rewarded "fully" for our kills?
Originally posted by hinch
i nearly always drop armour though on occations my monk has dropped multiple psi cores and my ds
huh? I think that only happens if you're red.
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
You can post a perfectly unbiased, logical post and then some selfish person can make the total opposite and then its taken as if the 2 opinions were equal...
roflmao
I agree 100%.
Originally posted by Cryotchekk
u can have 110 hack and still 130 wep lore?????????
Not everyone is a spy.
Originally posted by Mingerroo
Tough shit if u cant hack :) You shoulda been a spy or hire another player.
See? What a fucking selfish attitude. Stuff like that ruins the game. Their coudl have been other ways of making hackers needed.
And I thought you said we are rewarded fully for RPking?
One idea I had was that we could take the quickbelts and keep them, then bring them to hackers who hire out their services, to have the belts hacked and we keep the item.
i havent been on neocron for the past 3 days now...and i honestly dont plan to anymore...i also know alot of friends that are giving up on neocron too...ive been waiting on doy for the past 3 or 4 months...time to move on for me since i finally found another mmorpg to play...i will be back to check out doy and stay if it's worth staying but right now neocron has become too stressful for me...anyways...have fun with neocron...
Gostly i feel exactly like you do..
I got to get something else to do than running around
plaza-1-2-3 talking shit and going to pepper once in a
while to kill someone or talk shit :P
Cryotchekk
09-08-03, 19:36
Originally posted by Nixon
Gostly i feel exactly like you do..
I got to get something else to do than running around
plaza-1-2-3 talking shit and going to pepper once in a
while to kill someone or talk shit :P
what server u play?
Cryotchekk
09-08-03, 22:19
Originally posted by Nixon
Pluto :/
heh, im gonna make a all pk-clan when i get a new pc, wanna join if i do? (lots of killing)
Its not selfish to want to have something to my class. Tanks get ownage, PPUs get mega-armour, APUs get mega PAIN and i get to hack shit. Thats not selfish thats called having a reason for four classes, otherwise they might as well just have one class.
Having different classes have naturally better abilities and worths allows for there to be more interaction between classes. I may die easy but I hire a PPU to guard my arse. :) So a tank doesnt need to hire a PPU, he needs to hire a hacker, which in my opinion is fair do's.
That wasnt baby "OMG" talk, it was serious, and I meant to say "stop playing a spy" 8| . Without that spies are just weak tanks who can stealth, and have no cool abilities that make them stand out.
I PK targets that are my level, and often on hunting trips so they are carrying many decent loot parts. Such as rare imps from WBs, or just good armour to defend themselves. :D
And finally, as for the comment on your reward, you find it easier to PK than a weak offense and weak defense spy, but you need assistance in getting the goodies.
Taking out the belts in the long run would hurt you more than benefit you in the long run, as people would freely pick up your monk PA without needing to take any time getting to it, and other such dilemmas o_O
KRIMINAL99
10-08-03, 16:05
Originally posted by Mingerroo
OK, people used to drop psi boosters a lot of the time, now they drop armour, etc. Which = cash. Some times (fairly often for me) they drop level 3 chips, rare hearts and shit like that, expensive shit.
@whoever said im gimped, im really not, because I know what im doing i do more damage than a guy with the same gun and better stats than me (i dont kno how, prolly to do with base stats). But trust me, Im not gimped.
And back to the point about being a tank, a combatr char, and that Im biased because I can hack. THATS THE ENTIRE POINT OF HAVING MULTIPLE CLASSES. Without hackable belts the only thing worth hacking is OPs and doors. The idea is to mix classes etc, ups and downs of all classes and so on and so forth. I dont want tanks to be a one man army, but seemingly you do.
Hackable belts are in my opinion, and many others who get killed by mobs and dont have their stuff nabbed by a newb, a good thing :D
Tough shit if u cant hack :) You shoulda been a spy or hire another player.
... Once again.. People dropped psi boosters before because you always dropped one out of the 10 things in your quickbar. Guess what? Weapons had to be in your quickbar to use them. That means you had at LEAST a 1 in 10 chance of dropping your uber weapon, almost the ONLY thing that has any meaningful value in Neocron. Those armour pieces sell for at max 6k with barter, nice slotted weapons or rare weapons sell for HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of credits. Use your brain and do a little math here... 1/10 chance of maybe 500k weapon = 50k which is more than a crappy armour piece.... Then most people had other valuable weapons in their quickbelt too. Now let see here.. the way it is now, you pvp and you are risking your 25k armour to get a chance to win someone elses armour which is only worth 6k to you. MAJOR PVP DISCOURAGEMENT RIGHT THERE. Before you were risking your 500k weapon for a chance at someone elses 500k weapon... Your heart is pounding, your flooded with adrenaline etc etc...
And someone has to be stupid to drop rare imps in PVP... That only happens when they are hunting mobs and die while hunting. Your saying that proves my earlier point that probably 90% of your hacks are ill-gotten from people who dropped belts while hunting mobs.
Second... Your not a pker.. as a non pker you can pick your fights and only attack when people dont expect you. When your a pker you can fight any number of people at ONCE. And just to get people to be scared of you, you have to be able to kill several people at once on a regular basis. (They still wont admit your good but they will run and spam chat when they see you.) People attack you on sight and sneak up on you once you get a rep. If you don't have all your points in combat skills and your trying to be a PKER.. trust me YOUR GIMPED. The point is- You can't be a combat specialist AND get the loot that YOU earned.
Now about multiple classes... All classes are and are meant to be viable as combat characters only. If you what you meant to say was "TATS TEH HOLE POINT OF SPECIALIZED CHARZ", then let me put it this way. First of all, that whole concept is flawed. No spy is willing to follow a tank or other combat character around and hack their belts for them and actually share the loot with them unless its for an extreme amount of money or they want to because its a pkers belt. Its just boring as sh## to do. Now, some hacker spies do hang out and fight with their friends and then the group can hack belts. But once the hacker spies realized they can't stand up to pure combat chars they get bored of it and leave. Net result is basically only hackers get any loot, be it from pvp, people loosing items from dieing while hunting etc. No loot gets shared with the people who actually did the killing. Hell even if you have a hacker as a pker you can't afford the 30 sec of afk time in order to loot your kills. Anyways the point is CHAR SPECIALIZATION DOESN'T WORK FOR QB DROPS AND YOU KNOW IT. Don't try and bs people by arguing it does just cause your jackpoting on everyone elses kills and belt drops while hunting. Personally I think your totally immoral for arguing that.
One man army? What does being able to hack belts have to do with that? My point is you don't take away a players reward for winning PVP and give it to someone just cause they happen to put points in hack. Specialization is good when it works and its used on the right things. PVP drops is not the right thing. And you ARE a newb that nabs everyones stuff they drop while hunting - What you shouldve said is your just happy its you and not someone else.
Vampire222
10-08-03, 16:07
Whahahaha, dont forget the ppu's who drop a 50k spell or a uber 5 slot ultimated holy shelter everytime they go
KRIMINAL99
10-08-03, 16:12
Yes thats another issue... Monks DID have it somewhat unfair because their quickbelts were always filled with exp items meaning they were always risking much more in pvp. But back then monks were still uber so it wasn't terrible. They would have to think of soemthing else to fix that now that monks are balanced.
@ Arcadius- Yeah pvp drops still suck just as bad now as they did before. That guy probably doesn't even pvp much tho, instead he just spends his time running around neocron hacking all the stray belts that noone else could hack. 4/5 belts probably have crap in them but since he probably hacks 30 unearned belts a day he comes on the forum claiming player drops are better than they were before :rolleyes:
If not dropping a weapon is your problem, then I say keep belts and the current drop rules, just lose locked slots. That way its still hard to lose a weapon, but possible to gain one from a PK. :)
KRIMINAL99
10-08-03, 16:56
Originally posted by Mingerroo
If not dropping a weapon is your problem, then I say keep belts and the current drop rules, just lose locked slots. That way its still hard to lose a weapon, but possible to gain one from a PK. :)
lol yeah im sure youd love that... finding uber weapons in all the belts lieing everywhere along with all the other cool stuff. No man quickbelts need to be unlocked AND the safe slot gone. Its the only way to make PVP something to care about again.
OK. Then lets see this from another perspective.
You get ganked by 3 WBTs coming out of nowhere. Then rather than me having to try and stop in front of these 3 and hack your belt (nigh on impossible) I can just scoot past your weapon and pick it up on the way (on my vehicle). Yeh Im sure youd love THAT. :rolleyes:
Promethius
10-08-03, 18:32
Well i read this idea from someone else but i liked it and i think it should be heard.
Quick belts should be locked but the pker can pick up that locked belt and store in his/her inventory. In which they can bring it to a hacker pay the hacker some $$ and get teh item (of course everyone will just use a friend hacker btu watever) Also i would rather quick slot 1 be gone. I wouldn't mind getting a few Cursed Souls and some other rares in drops.
Though i think lvls x/2 - x/30 should have a safe slot jsut cuz they low lvl. Plus you could make the paladin reward a safe slot among other things.
Originally posted by MingerrooOK. Then lets see this from another perspective.
You get ganked by 3 WBTs coming out of nowhere. Then rather than me having to try and stop in front of these 3 and hack your belt (nigh on impossible) I can just scoot past your weapon and pick it up on the way (on my vehicle). Yeh Im sure youd love THAT.
Well there could be certain rules as to who can pick up ur belt when u die...kinda like first person access. Like something like after 240 seconds anyone can pick up ur belt. (but the PKer can have access immediatly)
Nice, I like that idea. Then not only can tank PKers get loot, but I can take em all home and open them in the safety of ym appartment....
....Or even start a bet opening business... ohhhh :)
Originally posted by Mingerroo
OK. Then lets see this from another perspective.
You get ganked by 3 WBTs coming out of nowhere. Then rather than me having to try and stop in front of these 3 and hack your belt (nigh on impossible) I can just scoot past your weapon and pick it up on the way (on my vehicle). Yeh Im sure youd love THAT. :rolleyes:
Yeah but then all you need to do is go out and gank someone else and steal his weapon. Syreus had the best story of that, he got an assault rifle made when he was low level. He was really proud of it, but then he only got to use it for a few minutes before someone killed him and stole it. Did he whine? Of course not. He just found someone else using a similar gun, killed him and took his gun. That's how NC should be, none of this carebear stuff (I hate to use that word but it really does apply here).
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
lol yeah im sure youd love that... finding uber weapons in all the belts lieing everywhere along with all the other cool stuff. No man quickbelts need to be unlocked AND the safe slot gone. Its the only way to make PVP something to care about again.
Or allow us to keep the belts, then we can take it to hackers(who will be pimping out their trade) so that it can be hacked.
Cryotchekk
10-08-03, 19:26
Originally posted by Scikar
Yeah but then all you need to do is go out and gank someone else and steal his weapon. Syreus had the best story of that, he got an assault rifle made when he was low level. He was really proud of it, but then he only got to use it for a few minutes before someone killed him and stole it. Did he whine? Of course not. He just found someone else using a similar gun, killed him and took his gun. That's how NC should be, none of this carebear stuff (I hate to use that word but it really does apply here).
heh heh heh
kriminal you really can hack as a spy and still kill. i mean, omg! its so obvious. duh, sorry but i cant help it. duh. hack is int and you dont need to put all of int into weapon lore SO HOW WTF ARE YOU GOING ON ABOUT???????????
Originally posted by Scikar
Yeah but then all you need to do is go out and gank someone else and steal his weapon. Syreus had the best story of that, he got an assault rifle made when he was low level. He was really proud of it, but then he only got to use it for a few minutes before someone killed him and stole it. Did he whine? Of course not. He just found someone else using a similar gun, killed him and took his gun. That's how NC should be, none of this carebear stuff (I hate to use that word but it really does apply here).
.....wonders why slot one is _locked_........:p
Cryotchekk
10-08-03, 19:43
Originally posted by alig
.....wonders why slot one is _locked_........:p
heh heh heh
it would rather it was unlocked, dropping random stuff was more fun
Originally posted by Scikar
Yeah but then all you need to do is go out and gank someone else and steal his weapon. Syreus had the best story of that, he got an assault rifle made when he was low level. He was really proud of it, but then he only got to use it for a few minutes before someone killed him and stole it. Did he whine? Of course not. He just found someone else using a similar gun, killed him and took his gun. That's how NC should be, none of this carebear stuff (I hate to use that word but it really does apply here).
OMG. I never, EVER saw it that way. That is a classy point. OK, so that has kind of won me over, but I wouldn't like to lose belts until hackers have some other worth :)
Personally I think spies should be doing proper espionage stuff, planting bugs, planting keyloggers on apartment access lifts to steal codes, hacking terms in enemy clan app to listen in on their clan chat, that kind of stuff, rather than being everybody else's bitches and hacking OPs, then belts, then OPs, then belts...
Originally posted by Scikar
Personally I think spies should be doing proper espionage stuff, planting bugs, planting keyloggers on apartment access lifts to steal codes, hacking terms in enemy clan app to listen in on their clan chat, that kind of stuff, rather than being everybody else's bitches and hacking OPs, then belts, then OPs, then belts...
This is why Scikar>all
I agree thousand percent. Like I said before, spies should be extremely powerful JUST LIKE PSIS. They should be the polar opposite of psis(like apu to ppu). PSsis are the master of the mind and PSI, spies are the master of the mind and TECHNOLOGY.
They really shouldn't be laughable. Honestly in op wars I see the spies as jokes, sorry but I do. I know nonamebrandeggs is a great PvP spy, but even at an op war I laugh. And i don't mean that as an insult to him. I think spies have alot of potential.
One thing I would like to see is disguise kits for spies much like UO. They would temporarily changed a spy's name(has to be custom made by the spy when using the kit otherwise everyone will memorize the "pre"set spy names), faction, rank, and clothing.
They should get shit like a special radar taht shows EVERYONE IN THE ZONE's name in local. Or see through walls. Or night vision.
etc....
KRIMINAL99
10-08-03, 23:14
Originally posted by Mingerroo
OK. Then lets see this from another perspective.
You get ganked by 3 WBTs coming out of nowhere. Then rather than me having to try and stop in front of these 3 and hack your belt (nigh on impossible) I can just scoot past your weapon and pick it up on the way (on my vehicle). Yeh Im sure youd love THAT. :rolleyes:
... THere is absolutely no difference to me between those 2 situations. In both of them I loose my item to some dude who didnt earn it. There is just less chance because it has to be a hacker that wanders on it and not any class. And that chance is not worth losing drops that I earned in pvp.
Just read your last post... HA! So you admit that the only reason you are arguing that pvp drops should stay locked is cause its the only cool thing about being a hacker. You have to seperate the problems... You cant destroy PVP for everyone else just to have a mediocre fix to the fact that hacking is near useless... Don't be so selfish.
@ crytocheckk.. what are you talking about... YOu can kill people as a tank with no weapons just by running around someone and punching them to death. (done that to mid level pes lol) My point is the more points you have in weapon lore the better, and if you are a true pker (not one that only pks when they know they can win) then you need every advantage you can get. There shouldnt be 2 different specializations, one being combat and another being looting kills. Thats like telling someone you can't have your cake and eat it too. And Id bet anything that Ming doesn't attack someone if he doesn't know he can win or if it might make a mob of players come after him. Im not talking about your running around killing and hacking qbs of 30 newbies or ppl huntign where you know you cant lose and it adds up to something meaningful. That doesn't mean that the loot is worth risking a fair fight, which is what I AM talking about.
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
YOu can kill people as a tank with no weapons just by running around someone and punching them to death. (done that to mid level pes lol)
Could anyone post that 'smells like bullshit' pic for me? Thanks.
How many PE's have you punched to death so far? 10? 15?
KRIMINAL99
10-08-03, 23:46
Originally posted by Nixon
Could anyone post that 'smells like bullshit' pic for me? Thanks.
How many PE's have you punched to death so far? 10? 15?
One and it took about 5 minutes and he tried running several times but couldnt get far enough. It was with a Melee PE with uber agility and Melee combat. (both effect punching)
Melee is awesome everyone thinks its useless but its not. Noone can hit you if your good and you never miss if you are pointed at the right place.
forget it...their's not enough bonuses to pvp in neocron anymore...oh boy i got their dog tag...now it can take up space in my backpack...w00t...
make pvp drops the way they used to be...and i know hackers will whine about it cuz then they dont need their "skill" in pvp...if anything good is in the belt...they'll go back for it...and most likely get it back...
for example (true story)...lol...
i died in pepperpark...dropped my 2 slot holy firestorm in my belt...so i was waiting for impairement to go away and also asking clanmates to get it for me...but they couldnt...i eventually went back in...opened the belt...hit take all...and then got killed again...but this time i dropped some low level spell...so their you go...enough said...i mightve been mad that i lost my firestorm...but i'd just try to get all the parts to get another one...it's always been like that...
but who knows...i just wish KK would quit going with bad ideas to hurt the game...if pvp is supposed to be such an important part of the game(if not the only reason for some people)...then why not make it more worthwhile...unlock safezones...get rid of quickbelts...nerf the copbots...fix the soullight to not go from 100 to -10...
ok im done...you can flame me now...w00t...:lol:
I like the idea of a belt that you can pick from the floor, with first access privileges to pick for the pk'er.... but what about if a mob kills you? who pick the belt, the chaser :D
No, serious, maybe in that situation we could make the belt hackable for people who search the areas to do that.
Just dropping a middle point of both arguments.
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
Just read your last post... HA! So you admit that the only reason you are arguing that pvp drops should stay locked is cause its the only cool thing about being a hacker. You have to seperate the problems... You cant destroy PVP for everyone else just to have a mediocre fix to the fact that hacking is near useless... Don't be so selfish.
Im not being selfish, but I do admit that my problem is not that of losing items to strangers, but that I dont want to lose the sole validity of my class. thats not selfish at all in my opinion, I worked hard on this character and so tanks should suffer slightly as i suffer (no PA, lower dmg, etc). If KK give me something else to do than just hack belts (like make boxes more worthwhile) then I wouldnt care so much. :)
KRIMINAL99
11-08-03, 01:21
Originally posted by Mingerroo
Im not being selfish, but I do admit that my problem is not that of losing items to strangers, but that I dont want to lose the sole validity of my class. thats not selfish at all in my opinion, I worked hard on this character and so tanks should suffer slightly as i suffer (no PA, lower dmg, etc). If KK give me something else to do than just hack belts (like make boxes more worthwhile) then I wouldnt care so much. :)
Hackers SHOULD get something to replace it (and btw im not a tank freak i ahve nearly capped about every char type in the game.) but I still think its not fair to cling to the locked quickbelt concept when its so damaging to the games PVP elements. Its like if hackers had nothing wed be complaining to them about hacking sucking, but now we have these quickbelts.. we might want them to be replaced with something mroe fair to everyone else but we arent about to give up quickbelts without getting the other thing first. You have to admit that is a TINY bit selfish.
Promethius
11-08-03, 01:32
little off topic but ever punch a friendly faction once....and then someoen kills this person...BAM SL gone. I think u have to do atleast 25% dmg to an enemy to lose SL. Cuz i don't think punchin ur friend once is called for a -7 SL hit from like 50. especialy with the new SL rules.
Cryotchekk
11-08-03, 13:27
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
... THere is absolutely no difference to me between those 2 situations. In both of them I loose my item to some dude who didnt earn it. There is just less chance because it has to be a hacker that wanders on it and not any class. And that chance is not worth losing drops that I earned in pvp.
Just read your last post... HA! So you admit that the only reason you are arguing that pvp drops should stay locked is cause its the only cool thing about being a hacker. You have to seperate the problems... You cant destroy PVP for everyone else just to have a mediocre fix to the fact that hacking is near useless... Don't be so selfish.
@ crytocheckk.. what are you talking about... YOu can kill people as a tank with no weapons just by running around someone and punching them to death. (done that to mid level pes lol) My point is the more points you have in weapon lore the better, and if you are a true pker (not one that only pks when they know they can win) then you need every advantage you can get. There shouldnt be 2 different specializations, one being combat and another being looting kills. Thats like telling someone you can't have your cake and eat it too. And Id bet anything that Ming doesn't attack someone if he doesn't know he can win or if it might make a mob of players come after him. Im not talking about your running around killing and hacking qbs of 30 newbies or ppl huntign where you know you cant lose and it adds up to something meaningful. That doesn't mean that the loot is worth risking a fair fight, which is what I AM talking about.
i still dont know what your on about, me and mingoo and spy's, with 100 int right. do you get that so far? now, we both use WEAPONS, get that? our weapons come under DEX, right. now as most people do we want to cap weapons for maximum damage, u see so far? now that can be done with about 100-120 weapon lore (maybe a bit more for FL), do you see? and with 100 int 120 weapon lore is only like 40 int points and some imps, meaning there is still room for a other skill we want, say hack.
do you see what i mean?
plus now i do only kill people i know i can beat, because im using a celeron400 64mb ram so it means if i die it takes about 3 times to sync back, then i cant log into plaza 1, plus if i loose weapons (rare) i cant go and kill big mobs for parts because my pc cant handle it or get money buy killing things.
Originally posted by Sleawer
I like the idea of a belt that you can pick from the floor, with first access privileges to pick for the pk'er.... but what about if a mob kills you? who pick the belt, the chaser :D
No, serious, maybe in that situation we could make the belt hackable for people who search the areas to do that.
Just dropping a middle point of both arguments.
http://neocron.jafc.de/images/icons/icon14.gif sound good :)
Cryotchekk
11-08-03, 19:20
Originally posted by \\Fényx//
http://neocron.jafc.de/images/icons/icon14.gif sound good :)
but will it ever happen?
no
A long time ago in brainport I posted the idea of picking up belts so that they acn be hacked later. I immediately got flamed, got called a quake/counterstrike kiddie because PvP was supposed to be it's "own" reward blah blah blah.
Cryotchekk
12-08-03, 12:47
Originally posted by Arcadius
A long time ago in brainport I posted the idea of picking up belts so that they acn be hacked later. I immediately got flamed, got called a quake/counterstrike kiddie because PvP was supposed to be it's "own" reward blah blah blah.
omg i hope u gave them a slap :D because that is such a great idea. it would add another tradeskill like thingy for spies (im being serious to taking the piss) and more RP to it
and just for criminal99 i took on 6 people last night, 3 of them had rares. dahm i died quick :(
KRIMINAL99
12-08-03, 15:37
Originally posted by Cryotchekk
i still dont know what your on about, me and mingoo and spy's, with 100 int right. do you get that so far? now, we both use WEAPONS, get that? our weapons come under DEX, right. now as most people do we want to cap weapons for maximum damage, u see so far? now that can be done with about 100-120 weapon lore (maybe a bit more for FL), do you see? and with 100 int 120 weapon lore is only like 40 int points and some imps, meaning there is still room for a other skill we want, say hack.
It takes more weapon lore to cap range than damage. Ill admit I suppose that capping range on pistols is of limited effect because you are talking about a distance of like 5 meters and short range.. There fore capping Pistols range wouldn't make a HUGE difference. But then on second thought the farther away the target is from max range of the weapon the faster the recticle closes... So it still makes a difference.
Example... You are going to pk a group of 3 people outside MB as a spy. The farther away you are the better. You pull out silent hunter and shoot once or twice, then switch to disruptor to take advantage of its faster fire and awareness of your surroundings. Or maybe pain easer. The higher the range the better. Everything counts as a pker.
@arcadius Thats a good idea - a perfect example of how to keep hackers involved without robbing people of their pvp kills. Sounds kinda difficult to program... I haven't seen any carryable containment items so far in the game which means they probably don't yet to exist.
Cryotchekk
12-08-03, 17:19
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
Example... You are going to pk a group of 3 people outside MB as a spy. The farther away you are the better. You pull out silent hunter and shoot once or twice, then switch to disruptor to take advantage of its faster fire and awareness of your surroundings. Or maybe pain easer. The higher the range the better. Everything counts as a pker.
or you run up to them and whack them with judge/rare ray pistol doobry and stealth+medkits if ur hurt
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
Example... You are going to pk a group of 3 people outside MB as a spy. The farther away you are the better. You pull out silent hunter and shoot once or twice, then switch to disruptor to take advantage of its faster fire and awareness of your surroundings. Or maybe pain easer. The higher the range the better. Everything counts as a pker.
Yeah gotta agree with Cryo a fair bit. I would stealth in, raygun (DoY atm, soon to upgrade to RoG) the weakest one there then leave. Let them run around like they do, eventually splitting up then pick them off long range or get in close for those quick kills.
Promethius
12-08-03, 20:18
One thing i dislike about spys is there stealth. Not the stealth iin general but how they can stealth after stealth. I would just like a small nerf (is there ever =\). Such as you get a drug side effect everytime you use it. (not noticeable in the first 2 times) but it slowly gets to you liek at about the 5th repeated cloak you start walkin funny. Also had an idea of where there is likea 5 -10 sec wait after every stealth.
I kno spys are weak in some aspects and people wouldn't stand for em nerfed but the stealth is rediculous.
Cryotchekk
12-08-03, 20:24
Originally posted by Promethius
One thing i dislike about spys is there stealth. Not the stealth iin general but how they can stealth after stealth. I would just like a small nerf (is there ever =\). Such as you get a drug side effect everytime you use it. (not noticeable in the first 2 times) but it slowly gets to you liek at about the 5th repeated cloak you start walkin funny. Also had an idea of where there is likea 5 -10 sec wait after every stealth.
I kno spys are weak in some aspects and people wouldn't stand for em nerfed but the stealth is rediculous.
heh i see what u mean, i only use stealth 1 (i dont have enough tc for others) but i think obliterator (is that the rare one?) lasts aaaaaaggggggesssssss to long and does give a unfair advantage, only slight but still.
also i think psi's should get some sort of stealth, or rather invisibility cloak rather than stealth.
also i think there should be super doper spy pa wich wont gives as much protection but comes with built in things like stealth, zoom thingys and maybe a laser pointer comming from the eye. but alas, all i can do is dream :(
Originally posted by Promethius
One thing i dislike about spys is there stealth. Not the stealth iin general but how they can stealth after stealth. I would just like a small nerf (is there ever =\). Such as you get a drug side effect everytime you use it. (not noticeable in the first 2 times) but it slowly gets to you liek at about the 5th repeated cloak you start walkin funny. Also had an idea of where there is likea 5 -10 sec wait after every stealth.
I kno spys are weak in some aspects and people wouldn't stand for em nerfed but the stealth is rediculous.
:lol: lol fuck off. Drug effect would render its attack and defense nature practically worthless. If you have a problem with restealth get a PPU to cast true sight.
Grrrr. Dont take my near-useless stealth away, its good as it is in my opinion.
Promethius
12-08-03, 20:30
Originally posted by Mingerroo
:lol: lol fuck off. Drug effect would render its attack and defense nature practically worthless. If you have a problem with restealth get a PPU to cast true sight.
Grrrr. Dont take my near-useless stealth away, its good as it is in my opinion.
its not jsut directed at spys also for Pes. Lame havina PE shot once cloak...shoot once cloak. Pain in the ass. Don't gimme that true sight crap....we all kno its worthless. it only is good if u shock and dmg boost them then run up to them with it. (i would suggest the true sight sanctum be twice as big).
But anywho the stealth. Just because you can't spam stealth doesn't mean ur class goes to shit... Stealth is really for sneakin into to places adn sneaken out. I don't think it was meant to be a tool in combat to jsut hide every 3 secs.
KRIMINAL99
12-08-03, 22:02
Man I can't believe yall are complaining about stealth as tanks and monks. All you have to do is pull out a malediction or doom beamer or moonstriker and spam the general area till a spy corpse suddenly appears on the ground. E barrels work somewhat too, and dam boost allows you to see where they are easily. The real class that needs a defense against stealth is DRONERS. If some guy can stealth in an entire zone fulll of peple then any droners are pratically useless. That is unless they have several people that can kill any attackers before the attackers kill the droner, which is not likely considering the stealther can appear anywhere around them.
The only thing I find ridiculous about stealth is that pes can use it. I'm still tryign to figure out why someone with tank defense has the right to use stealth. I understand spies, but pes? Pffttt.
If drones could see stealthed runners that would be quite fair imo. Currently the only counter is true sight, and that requires someone to help the ppu. Allowing drones to see stealthers would give droners a real use in OP wars.
Promethius
12-08-03, 22:45
well for one thing. The good stealthers have drugs which take away shock / dmg boost and jstu run away. but AoE weapons are a gamble. You generally can't hit teh stealther unless they stand still.
Reason i don't liek stealthers is cuz of this. someone appears on local (say ur ina group of 2 or 3 others). Stealkther unstealths next to all of us shoots one of us then stealths. stealther then runs toa good distance away unstealths with a Pain easer and shoots that person again. we start to run up to teh stelather but he has stealthed away. So wat do we do thers no way to counter a stealther. even if droners could see them who the hell has a droner with them 24/7? I jsut think there should be a delay between stealths or something to stop people from stealtheing over and over.
Originally posted by Promethius
So wat do we do thers no way to counter a stealther
Yes there is, its called "true sight" and is a PPU spell. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Mingerroo
Yes there is, its called "true sight" and is a PPU spell. :rolleyes:
It's also, "complete balls" and has "all the range of a disabled koala". :rolleyes:
well it works and people use it :rolleyes: Would you rather you could just wlak around deactivating stealth at will? Rendering it useless. Stealth is hardly impossible to beat, it just a useful thing for spies to have. :)
In my opinion True Sight Sanctum should be removed from ppu's, and gave to spies as a class tool; from there we could start improving the stealth war, with the spies as a key piece of it.
I dont agree with changing the stealth effects or use forms, but making the counter measures appropiate and effective. If I would change something of stealth devices, it would be allowing runners to target stealthed people, and allowing stealthed people to fire aswell. Then we could add a new status bar, like batteries, and stealth would use it: HLT|STA|PSI|BTR
ps: liked the idea of drones, but I would say a "special termical vision drone" to locate stealthers, with some kind of attack, but not as heavy as a nemesis or a kamikaze.
I think it would be fair if all droners could see stealthers. Currently the only people droners can kill are apu monks and solo tanks, spies and PEs just cloak and they can't hurt ppu monks. If they could see stealthers it would give droners a real use in OP wars.
Promethius
13-08-03, 03:59
Originally posted by Mingerroo
Yes there is, its called "true sight" and is a PPU spell. :rolleyes:
when i said that i was refering to without a ppu. Also true sight isn't that effective. its only good if u shock the stealther anyways. I would suggest they cut the mana req for that by half and increase teh sanctum size.
They could also give us goggles or some shit to see steallthers...or body heat or something (yes i am watching predator atm ) but i say either nerf the stealth or give everyclass a way of detecting a stealther. I'm not saying make it so we pop on some goggles and go chasin after stealthers just mayube something that makes us stationary when using so we can run around with it on.
Also no way in hell should stealthers be able to attack while stealth.
I wouldnt say give every class a way to detecting stealth, as not every class has a resource avaible to debuff a ppu.
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