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ghandisfury
04-08-03, 17:45
Now that the APUs have the unique ability to strip a PPU of his defences I propose to make things a bit different.

1) Make the shelter and deflector skins different so when an APU decides to strip me of one of them, it's easy to see what it is.

2) Make the holyantibuff stip you of ALL buffs, increase cast time, and lower mana cost.

3) Give run/cast to PPU's for shelter/deflector/heal (this would be a minimum PPU req).

4) Instead of group heal give the PPU "team" heal. This would heal everybody in your team (very expensive mana cost).

5) Give APU runcast for all spells (also a min apu req).

Comments/flaming/additions are welcome.

hinch
04-08-03, 17:47
ressurect teh hybrid

Fridge
04-08-03, 17:49
yeah GO HYBRID!!!!!!111111eleven

Helen Angilley
04-08-03, 17:52
APUs can run cast anyway, they just need a certain % in their Module's Damage stat.

Fridge
04-08-03, 17:53
not when the PPU freezes em ^.^

Progenitor
04-08-03, 18:10
Originally posted by hinch
ressurect teh hybrid

Has my vote! :D

-p

Sleawer
04-08-03, 18:16
1) Make the shelter and deflector skins different so when an APU decides to strip me of one of them, it's easy to see what it is.

anti shelter: yellow colour
anti deflector: blue colour
anti heal: anyone tested what colour?

these are facts, not ideas, so you can see what the apu is using against you. Besides this, making different skins is a good idea, that would make the ppu job a bit easier.


2) Make the holyantibuff stip you of ALL buffs, increase cast time, and lower mana cost.

Is 21 per minute so fast? damn it is 2x the time to recast a shelter.

I'm up to decrease the mana, atm the only antibuff usable is the holy, the regular version needs more mana than apu's can afford.
But I'm against to increase the rof, no thanks. You already have anti-poison spells and even passive sanctums, poison was the best effective attack to kill sheltered people, now if a ppu is near, that's just shit. I think we apu's earned some kind of "fuck the ppu spell" aswell, increasing the rof would mean increasing the time I become a target with a disco ball in my hands.


3) Give run/cast to PPU's for shelter/deflector/heal (this would be a minimum PPU req).

hmm, in a first time I dont have anything against this, imo pure monks should be able to runcast all spells.


4) Instead of group heal give the PPU "team" heal. This would heal everybody in your team (very expensive mana cost).

Yes, this idea has been suggested before, to make group and sanctum spells more usefull in combat situations. In my opinion sanctums should be like auras, only working in teams, and group spells should affect only the teamed runners inside its radius aswell.


5) Give APU runcast for all spells (also a min apu req).

I would like to see apu's runcasting holy antibuff, I cap damage and rof in mine with psi 3, and still cannot runcast it due the low rof.

Drake6k
04-08-03, 18:24
Originally posted by Helen Angilley
APUs can run cast anyway, they just need a certain % in their Module's Damage stat.

Yes, I think it is fine the way it is.

Nerf teh ppus they already play to big a role on every situation. :D

Forget My Name
04-08-03, 18:29
Sounds interesting. monks seem fine now... maybe give monks some form of flying???

t0tt3
04-08-03, 18:29
Originally posted by Drake6k
Yes, I think it is fine the way it is.

Nerf teh ppus they already play to big a role on every situation. :D

Kill the PPU and the monk race will be dead...
Ever tried to solo with a APU in firemob land :D hehehe gg thnx no rem

GT_Rince
04-08-03, 18:30
Originally posted by Forget My Name
Sounds interesting. monks seem fine now... maybe give monks some form of flying???

Yeah - they could have wings attached...

Sleawer
04-08-03, 18:34
I thought in the monk PA allowing us to fly :D

wasnt it an old bibliotequa idea anyway?

BlackPrince
04-08-03, 18:41
Hmm...Bye Bye Flying Nun, hello Flying Monk!

Eh..NO.

Progenitor
04-08-03, 19:08
Originally posted by Sleawer
anti shelter: yellow colour
anti deflector: blue colour
anti heal: anyone tested what colour?

these are facts, not ideas, so you can see what the apu is using against you. Besides this, making different skins is a good idea, that would make the ppu job a bit easier.


I'm all for this, but do you know how long the energy halo graphics/skins have been broken?

But, not only do they need to change the graphics when casting - I'd love for them to modify the actuall spell icons so that you can tell them all apart, without remembering where they are in your inventory when you need to pull one out or having to hover the mouse over the spell to see the popup description.



Originally posted by Sleawer
Is 21 per minute so fast? damn it is 2x the time to recast a shelter.

I'm up to decrease the mana, atm the only antibuff usable is the holy, the regular version needs more mana than apu's can afford.
But I'm against to increase the rof, no thanks. You already have anti-poison spells and even passive sanctums, poison was the best effective attack to kill sheltered people, now if a ppu is near, that's just shit. I think we apu's earned some kind of "fuck the ppu spell" aswell, increasing the rof would mean increasing the time I become a target with a disco ball in my hands.


I am torn about this. My gut says that the anti-* spells ought to cost about twice the mana as the spell that they are removing.
But in the heat of battle, once your initial pool is gone, I often find myself waiting for natural regain and psi booster to fill up my pool again, so that I begin to cast again. Given that, I feel that the rof is too slow - the higher the energy consumption, the quicker the rof should be - I'd rather the energy level left be the limiting factor then the fact that it takes 3-5seconds to cast each one. Sure a monk with full pool will cast a couple quickly, but after that, he will be limited to his regen rate, which will slow him down some.
On the other hand though, the more a spell does, the greater it's complexity so to speak, it should have a higher rof.
This becomes a double edged sword. The higher the rate of fire, the harder it becomes to runcast a spell. Which leads to turent type casting of those spells. I don't know if the risk/reward is balanced out there. ??

As to the damage that poison does - at least for the toxic spells, it needs to be incresed - all of the toxic spells seem VERY ineffective at the moment.



Originally posted by Sleawer
hmm, in a first time I dont have anything against this, imo pure monks should be able to runcast all spells.


I agree to an extent - you should need to have X amount of skill over the reqs to be able to runcast and not fizzle - maybe for each 5-10% over the reqs you have, your chance of fizzle lessen. And this way it pays to specialize, you get the bonus of fewer fizzles. New monks that just reached the reqs for HL shouldn't be able to runcast it as well as already capped monks. Or does the fact that they don't do as much damage negate the affects?



Originally posted by Sleawer
Yes, this idea has been suggested before, to make group and sanctum spells more usefull in combat situations. In my opinion sanctums should be like auras, only working in teams, and group spells should affect only the teamed runners inside its radius aswell.

I fully disagree. Using of the group spells is a quick way to buff your teammates, but if someone or something is in the area of effect, well then, it gets buffed too. It's part of the risk/reward. I know it can be a pain in the neck - I was in the chaos caves last night and one of the PPUs was using the group spells no matter where he was. A minion with d/s on it is a tough little bugger - I went from doing 150's - 310's worth of damage to 40ish a hit. (Switching from energy to fire did help a lot, but he was still harder to kill)
The same holds true in an OP battle - if the PPU wants to conserve energy by casting a group spell instead of casting the individule spells on each member, he has that risk of buffing the enemy too.

Also, IMO, I feel that the group spells should be 15-20% as strong as the individule spell of the same level. For the amount of energy it takes to cast, as they are now, they give a big bang for the buck. They should be brought in line a little to make them more represenitive of the amount of energy they take to cast.

BTW, personally, I do not believe that the affects of sanctum spells work that well on MOBs - or that they don't show the affects - I've never seen yellow healing numbers over a MOB that was in a heal sanctums radius. But that just could be game machnics not working correctly.



Originally posted by Sleawer
I would like to see apu's runcasting holy antibuff, I cap damage and rof in mine with psi 3, and still cannot runcast it due the low rof.

If ANY monk caps frequency on ANY spell, he should be able to runcast it. Heck, I'd even go so far as to say that at 80-85% of MAX Frequency, he should be able to runcast.

But I also do like the idea about level of skill above and beyond the requirements, lessing the chances of fizzle while runcasting and just letting all monks runcast , reguardless of their frequency stats.


-p

Progenitor
04-08-03, 19:13
Originally posted by t0tt3
Kill the PPU and the monk race will be dead...
Ever tried to solo with a APU in firemob land :D hehehe gg thnx no rem

I do a fair job of soloing fire MOBs now.

I do die now while hunting solo, whereas before when I was a hybrid I rarely died.

It takes a big change in tactics and ability to only pull those mobs you want to kill. Any of the MOBs that spawn little ones are a lot harder to kill for sure.

With adiquate cover, it isn't so bad. Get caught in the open and you are dead.

I use to be able to turrent terror raptors without breaking a sweat. Now, they poise a challange. I enjoy the challange while cursing my new limitations.


-p

Spy<VS>Spy
04-08-03, 19:24
well the trouble is the only problem with that is basicly the only way to kill a good PPU monk without a aggressive monk canceling his heals and shields, is to wait for him to stand still doing the recasting of heals and buffs...thats the only windo you get to pile into him hard and heavil with the crippling damage.

i mean i can see the need for run casting APU, like, every other weapon fires one the move...somne better then others...recently i discovered the gatlin cannon is rather good in a chase if you have a stanima booster.

the PPU though...

i mean you really have to sit down and say, alright what is this class really? he's not just the helpful monk. if you do allot of PvP with clans you know, the battle isnt over unless all the other teams PPU's are dead. when this happens, its yours, the other team can kill your mates however they want, but once they die its done.

they are the free continues. they are also the only glass which makes anouther class completely nessary. there are some PPU monks you just CANT kill without the proper weapons, and it includes the anti spells of the aggressive monk.

any other charactor and class can be engaged by the other and defeated. the PPU is a different fish, so thats why i'm heisitant to treat them with equality.

in my day rezzing in the middle of a fight was unheard of. you rezed after you won, and the party who lost, doesnt get a rez. :)

fights didnt last for 2 hours...its depressing really, i have a clan of 6 to eight people, and it takes so much time and effort to kill a good PPU that usualy the enemy has more then enought time to filter in and zerg us...its stupid.

but hey, thats the way it is.

CarniFlex
04-08-03, 19:36
would like to see apu's runcasting holy antibuff, I cap damage and rof in mine with psi 3, and still cannot runcast it due the low rof

I cant runcast my fire apoc despite i cap damage on it, maybe its just me... and the silly thing with fire apocalypse... its nerfed freq stops at 87...

Cyphor
04-08-03, 19:47
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Now that the APUs have the unique ability to strip a PPU of his defences I propose to make things a bit different.

1) Make the shelter and deflector skins different so when an APU decides to strip me of one of them, it's easy to see what it is.

The colour of the anti-buff tells you, but dont think it would hurt anyone to have the symbols on your screen different to tell you what is shelter and what is deflector


Originally posted by ghandisfury
2) Make the holyantibuff stip you of ALL buffs, increase cast time, and lower mana cost.

Its fine atm, its cast time is sufficiant as you can still para and run, and you can cast a lot quicker to put your deffences back up. The mana cost is fine, if you lower it too much they can chain cast it, (even with a low cast rate it could be annoying) seems balanced to me atm, they can take it away fast but it costs alot.


Originally posted by ghandisfury
3) Give run/cast to PPU's for shelter/deflector/heal (this would be a minimum PPU req)..

I agree ppu's should be able to runcast, its ment to be a benifit of going pure. I disagree with min ppu req, a tank may find a way to runcast basic heal O_o , make run cast at about 450% dmg, to make it somewhat equivelant to apu runcast due to the lower cap on ppu spells.


Originally posted by ghandisfury
4) Instead of group heal give the PPU "team" heal. This would heal everybody in your team (very expensive mana cost).

I like this idea, however as mentioned the point of group buffs/heal buffing and healig enemies if they are close is to give it a negative effect and only usefull in cetain circumstances. However i like the idea of team buffs in adition, give them high requirements in comparison to group buffs, perhalps make them high lvl rares and so harder to cap, with the 50% nerf on buffs to other people i dot think this is too powerfull as even if someone did find a way to gimp themselves to cap them, the heal for example would only do the same as a cpped holy heal on another (50%).


Originally posted by ghandisfury
5) Give APU runcast for all spells (also a min apu req).

From my experience apu's can runcast all spells and the high dmg requirement is needed, or at least was to keep it out of reach of hybrids. Now however im not too fussed about hybrids runcasting, but i always saw it as one of the benifits of going pure, and i prefer it as being something to aim for, due to a pure monk being able to use hl and fa very early if they gimp their set up by using pa and all +psi imps, run cast gives them something to aim for, rather than just more dmg.

t0tt3
04-08-03, 19:47
200 APU and cant still runcast Apoc... APOC SuXoR:s! like some clans :D ooh well didnt want to start a clan flame thread so I just say Apoc aint worth it give it some love plz :(

Cyphor
04-08-03, 20:09
Originally posted by t0tt3
200 APU and cant still runcast Apoc... APOC SuXoR:s! like some clans :D ooh well didnt want to start a clan flame thread so I just say Apoc aint worth it give it some love plz :(

I've seen apoc runcast alot, but i have heard that it is harder to runcast than other spells and fails alot so mabey runcast on fire apoc should be looked at and fixed.


Originally posted by Spy<VS>Spy
well the trouble is the only problem with that is basicly the only way to kill a good PPU monk without a aggressive monk canceling his heals and shields, is to wait for him to stand still doing the recasting of heals and buffs...thats the only windo you get to pile into him hard and heavil with the crippling damage

Good point but then you could use another ppu to para him, (might need to spam him due to carth and carth sanctum). However mabey make some spells eg ressurection non-runcastable, as i agree it shouldnt be cast in battle unless the enemy have been very careless or your forces are holding them back.

When a ppu is hard if non impossible to kill when you dont have a apu/other ppu, then this is because they are very good and i dont see a problem with this as they cant harm your forces, due to lack of offence and perhalps also shows you werent as prepared as you thought for the battle.

ghandisfury
04-08-03, 20:20
The current anti-shelter spell is death to a ppu monk as is the anti-deflector. A team of APU and a spy could easily kill PPU monk with just these two spells...why? Because if the PPU monk is running (which he shouldn't have to) he/she is unable to tell the difference of which buff he was stripped. This imo is quite unfair to the PPU monk.

The holy-anti-buff cost's to much in mana for what it gives you. It strips both the shelter and deflector. Once I know these are down, they are easily replaced. I suggest you make it strip all buffs.........hazard/spy/melee...etc....Increase cast time, and lower mana cost. (and yes, make it as all other spells run-castable).

What is the current problem with APU right now? The are forced to attack in a stationary position. Even with there total lack of defences they are forced to stay stationary. To me this takes all of the skill out of play...........point.....click......hope they die first. All spells should be runcastable, and the only downfall to using a higher tl spell should be a lower amount (considerably lower) of damage and ROF.

@cyphor....it seems you have never played a monk. If you say "I have seen apoc runcast".........tell me who it was because they must only have 80 mana.

Spy<VS>Spy
04-08-03, 20:36
heh, dont talk to me about unfair, that very hard to see true sight sanctum, thats unfair...like when they got a heal sanctum a poor hapless spy can tell he is fucked untill he's decloaked looking stupid...

i prefere anti deflector...cause then its time for the pain easers to take them home...but the anti shelter is great when you have hungry cursed souls or first loves.

it doesnt always mean death as a monk can cast the shield back pretty fast, but if you can keep on him and his buffs down...yeah he drops like a bad habit.

by the way once the PPU gets cartharsis sanctum up, its no more parashocking for anyone, the monk is pretty much immune to the damage boosting and parashocking...which makes them VERY difficult targets...even if your working on getting their shields down.

Cyphor
04-08-03, 20:39
Originally posted by ghandisfury
@cyphor....it seems you have never played a monk. If you say "I have seen apoc runcast".........tell me who it was because they must only have 80 mana.

I have 3 apu monks in my clan who can run cast apoc, i play a ppu they are apu, as i said i have seen it done BUT its fails rate are high even with dmg on the apoc capped and they have enough mana for holy antibuff (capped with psi 3).

Also have you played a ppu? anti buffs are damn annyoing but not a certain death, para run recast.

And as has been stated a few times before...you can see what has been removed by being aware or the colour of the anti spell when being cast (the huge light coming out of the apu's hand for a few sec).

And if the "good" apu's you see attack from a stationary position, have you played in the past few months O_o since run cast has came in NO apu stands still in combat, yes they might have their difficulty fire fire apoc failing alot but they still have beams and holy lighting to run around with.

As i said fireapoc might need to be fixed as it seems bugged and fails alot when capped.

Cyphor
04-08-03, 20:44
Originally posted by Spy<VS>Spy
by the way once the PPU gets cartharsis sanctum up, its no more parashocking for anyone, the monk is pretty much immune to the damage boosting and parashocking...which makes them VERY difficult targets...even if your working on getting their shields down.

Yeah i agree here mabey something needs to be done to fix this, mabey half the time its active for and make it non-runcastable (in the discussion on runcast ppu spells) thus having to stop to cast it...

Omnituens
04-08-03, 21:54
Originally posted by Sleawer
I thought in the monk PA allowing us to fly :D

wasnt it an old bibliotequa idea anyway?

it was an idea i posted quite a while back, saying the monk PA should show the monk leviatating slightly of the ground like Yeri in Red Alert 2

KidWithStick
04-08-03, 21:57
shutup about the dirty hybrids...


and for your ideas they sound alright....although very unlikely KK will implement them.

Mr Friendly
04-08-03, 23:04
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Now that the APUs have the unique ability to strip a PPU of his defences I propose to make things a bit different.

1) Make the shelter and deflector skins different so when an APU decides to strip me of one of them, it's easy to see what it is.

2) Make the holyantibuff stip you of ALL buffs, increase cast time, and lower mana cost.

3) Give run/cast to PPU's for shelter/deflector/heal (this would be a minimum PPU req).

4) Instead of group heal give the PPU "team" heal. This would heal everybody in your team (very expensive mana cost).

5) Give APU runcast for all spells (also a min apu req).

Comments/flaming/additions are welcome.

dude, the apus have ALWAYS been to strip them of their buffs & heal. its a spell called "antibuff" (rare of course)
nobody has been usin em till recently, and only a handfull do

Arcadius
04-08-03, 23:16
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Now that the APUs have the unique ability to strip a PPU of his defences I propose to make things a bit different.

1) Make the shelter and deflector skins different so when an APU decides to strip me of one of them, it's easy to see what it is.



?

Anti def is blue, anti-shelter and anti-heal is yellow. Anti-heal is and should never be used, it's the "wyatt earp" of apu spells.



Originally posted by ghandisfury


2) Make the holyantibuff stip you of ALL buffs, increase cast time, and lower mana cost.


What do you mean ALL buffs? If you mean sanctums and resist/tradeskill/combat buffs, then yes I agree. And if they change it to do that, it should have increased cast time and cost 300 to cast.



Originally posted by ghandisfury

3) Give run/cast to PPU's for shelter/deflector/heal (this would be a minimum PPU req).




No way.



Originally posted by ghandisfury


4) Instead of group heal give the PPU "team" heal. This would heal everybody in your team (very expensive mana cost).


I agree. Alternatively they could make group spells have a HUGE ASS radius. So that it's easier(and less stressful) to buff up your team before an op battle.



Originally posted by ghandisfury

5) Give APU runcast for all spells (also a min apu req).



They already can. I'm not sure if they should be able to run/cast anti spells.


Also let me add additional "tweaks".


6)"shields" should start the 2 minute countdown(to when it wears off) AFTER the first hit. This will make the PPU's job less stressful if waiting for the enemy or before an op battle is about to occur. I'm sure ppus get tired of buffing and rebuffing for 20 minutes straight.


7)Apus should get a leech life and mana spell. Obviously it should be named differently for this time era. :D

8)Apus should get some type of "retribution" spell that reflects back a portion of damage to his/her attacker.

9)Their should be a new high level hunting spot containing powerful mutants. I feel that PPUs should be able to damage mutants by casting heal spells on them. It makes sense from an RP point I think. Mutants have bodies drastically different and altered from that of a normal human, such that normal regenerative energy hurts them to an extent. THis will be a great way for ppus to level.



Btw I can run/cast fire apoc. I barely use it though. Fire apoc is underpowered and the frequency is crap.

Progenitor
05-08-03, 01:14
Let's face it, since the inception, the Monk class has gone through an increadible amount of changes.

For a short period there was Exotic Spells and there was no MST.

At one time psu affected damage. it also affected psi energy in a much better way.

PPW use to affect range and frequency at one time.

At one time parashock spells did greater damage.

Heck, even at one time Monk Int xp was much better.

Unfortunetly, as each patch attempted to balance pures and hybrids, they never took into concideration the existing "fixes" that previously went into place.

New spells have been added that in combination with the various balancing attempts have made things a bit off.

MST really isn't needed anymore - the monk doesn't need a point sink any more.

The affects of the various balancing attempts need to be undone and rethought out.

The various cast rates and mana consumption need to be readjusted, in line with those new rules.

It rumored that with DoY, will come a new skill system. I don't know if debating the issue now makes a difference or not. I don't know if they have already set in stone what they mean to change or if it is such a change that any of this is mute.

What we need to know are what changes they are planning on and then debating the merits of those changes.

Just a thought.

-p

Sleawer
05-08-03, 01:39
Originally posted by progenitor

I'm all for this, but do you know how long the energy halo graphics/skins have been broken?

You are up for what? this is a feature already implemented in the game, it is working perfect, so I fail to see what are you trying to discuss here.

If you want to discuss about the different skins for spells, then quote the thread starter hmmkay? or do you disagree with me giving my opinion?



I am torn about this. My gut says that the anti-* spells ought to cost about twice the mana as the spell that they are removing.
But in the heat of battle, once your initial pool is gone, I often find myself waiting for natural regain and psi booster to fill up my pool again, so that I begin to cast again. Given that, I feel that the rof is too slow - the higher the energy consumption, the quicker the rof should be - I'd rather the energy level left be the limiting factor then the fact that it takes 3-5seconds to cast each one. Sure a monk with full pool will cast a couple quickly, but after that, he will be limited to his regen rate, which will slow him down some.
On the other hand though, the more a spell does, the greater it's complexity so to speak, it should have a higher rof.
This becomes a double edged sword. The higher the rate of fire, the harder it becomes to runcast a spell. Which leads to turent type casting of those spells. I don't know if the risk/reward is balanced out there. ??

As to the damage that poison does - at least for the toxic spells, it needs to be incresed - all of the toxic spells seem VERY ineffective at the moment.


But what are you trying to tell me? why are you even quoting me? are you even reading my posts???

You are explaining me what I do everyday, take a moment to read my posts dude, you are just repeating what I posted, as if you were trying to explain it to me?

:confused:


I agree to an extent - you should need to have X amount of skill over the reqs to be able to runcast and not fizzle - maybe for each 5-10% over the reqs you have, your chance of fizzle lessen. And this way it pays to specialize, you get the bonus of fewer fizzles. New monks that just reached the reqs for HL shouldn't be able to runcast it as well as already capped monks. Or does the fact that they don't do as much damage negate the affects?

You agree with what? my god I'm not the thread starter, why dont you read the thread and the posts inside?

imo pure monks should be able to runcast, I'm not saying at what lvl, I'm a capped monk since ages, and I'm able to runcast EVERYTHING but my artifact 3 slotted holy antibuff.

God, who is this guy?


I fully disagree. Using of the group spells is a quick way to buff your teammates, but if someone or something is in the area of effect, well then, it gets buffed too. It's part of the risk/reward. I know it can be a pain in the neck - I was in the chaos caves last night and one of the PPUs was using the group spells no matter where he was. A minion with d/s on it is a tough little bugger - I went from doing 150's - 310's worth of damage to 40ish a hit. (Switching from energy to fire did help a lot, but he was still harder to kill)

Ok, that's your opinion, personally I dont care, I gave mine, next time quote the thread starter. And I dont care what happened you in chaos caves btw.


Also, IMO, I feel that the group spells should be 15-20% as strong as the individule spell of the same level. For the amount of energy it takes to cast, as they are now, they give a big bang for the buck. They should be brought in line a little to make them more represenitive of the amount of energy they take to cast.

Great, make a brainport thread about it, I didnt say anything about that. Just for your information, the mana they take to cast is due the group state, they can heal everyone in the range at the cost of more mana and less healing power... same with shields.

I still fail to see the reason because you are quoting me.


BTW, personally, I do not believe that the affects of sanctum spells work that well on MOBs - or that they don't show the affects - I've never seen yellow healing numbers over a MOB that was in a heal sanctums radius. But that just could be game machnics not working correctly.

And who said that? if you ever bothered to make some tests in mobs, you would know you cannot heal them, to prevent xp gain exploits. You only can shield the mobs, period.

Dude, your posts maybe didnt miss the topic, some of them did, but you missed completely the target.

Next time quote the forum starter, I am not the same person, and half of your replies werent directed to me.

Sleawer
05-08-03, 01:41
To everyone saying apu's cant runcast, I can runcast all my spells, included Fire Apocalypse and Holy Lighting with ZERO fizzles, if I cast over the target, since I got 540% damage on them. Now those spells are completely capped in damage and RoF thanks to the PA, and I do have more than 80 psi pool.

Thanks.

Sleawer
05-08-03, 02:07
Originally posted by ghandisfury

The current anti-shelter spell is death to a ppu monk as is the anti-deflector. A team of APU and a spy could easily kill PPU monk with just these two spells...why? Because if the PPU monk is running (which he shouldn't have to) he/she is unable to tell the difference of which buff he was stripped. This imo is quite unfair to the PPU monk.

A team of apu and spy can kill a ppu? well yes, maybe it can happen with the proper tactics and doing things fast, but also the ppu teamed with any other class can kill EVERYONE else, and not only 2 vs 1 as in the case of apu and spy, but a ppu can turn a battle of 5 or 6 vs ppu and team mate and win the fight.

It's annoying how you see unfair 2 players killing a ppu, if they have an apu, but not how unfair could be 5 players dieing for not having a ppu or an apu with them.


The holy-anti-buff cost's to much in mana for what it gives you. It strips both the shelter and deflector. Once I know these are down, they are easily replaced. I suggest you make it strip all buffs.........hazard/spy/melee...etc....Increase cast time, and lower mana cost. (and yes, make it as all other spells run-castable).

I have the same opinion as Arcadius here, if you mean all buffs.. including sanctums aswell btw.


What is the current problem with APU right now? The are forced to attack in a stationary position. Even with there total lack of defences they are forced to stay stationary. To me this takes all of the skill out of play...........point.....click......hope they die first. All spells should be runcastable, and the only downfall to using a higher tl spell should be a lower amount (considerably lower) of damage and ROF.

That maybe is a problem of low rank apu's, but I think you talk about high ranks or even capped right?

In this case I say no, this is not the problem with apu's. I'm not forced to attack in a stacionary position, I can runcast my spells perfectly.

Our current problem is the lack of a well defined role, if apu's are suppossed to be agressive supporters, then we have a great problem with the apu role, because we cannot support in other way than any other class aside antibuff spells. That's why some people suggested a renew in the spell system.
However if we are suppossed to be just medium range fighters, and the damage dealer, then we have a little problem, and it is basic buffs and heals, in fact what every other warrior class have. See the flaw here.

People suggested passive as only defensive, which seems to not be the same in KK eyes.
Or agressive as only attack, which oddly has that meaning to KK.

I say one or other, but if ppu's are passive with some attack, apu's should be agressive with some defence.

And now yes I'm giving independant opinions to quote me, but try to not repeat my post eh? at least I understand what I writte.

petek480
05-08-03, 02:22
quote:
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The holy-anti-buff cost's to much in mana for what it gives you. It strips both the shelter and deflector. Once I know these are down, they are easily replaced. I suggest you make it strip all buffs.........hazard/spy/melee...etc....Increase cast time, and lower mana cost. (and yes, make it as all other spells run-castable).
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I have the same opinion as Arcadius here, if you mean all buffs.. including sanctums aswell btw.

Having holy anti-buff take off every spell that an ppu has on them or anyone else is unfair. Right now a job of an ppu is already hard enough. We have to make sure everyone has there shelter/deflector and whatever else buffs they need and we also have to keep them fully healed all the time. With holy anti-buff being able to take off shelters/deflector, ppus also have to worry about having there shelters/deflectors taken off and there teammates taken off aswell.

Now if holy anti-buff would take off all there spells that'll just make the ppu job 10 times as differcult. The only way I think it would be fair is if it took alot and I mean alot longer to cast holy anti-buff and also take more mana to cast.

Sleawer
05-08-03, 03:39
Yea, that's what Arcadius was saying, and with what I agreed. At the moment holy antibuff is ok, maybe KK could lower a bit the mana. But if we decrease the RoF to let's say 10 per minute, then I would like to see ALL buffs stripped... just as you said Petek.

Pitspawn
05-08-03, 04:14
Ok my opinions on this...



1) Make the shelter and deflector skins different so when an APU decides to strip me of one of them, it's easy to see what it is.


Yes this would be nice. Either make some sort of animation like a red ring spin around the target or make the buff flash red for a second before fading. TBH im not too fussed if they change this or not though. I just dont like the way apus are able to flood you with poison/fire to disguise the antibuff they are doing.



2) Make the holyantibuff stip you of ALL buffs, increase cast time, and lower mana cost.


I dont EVER want to see KK implement such a thing. That would be so damn overpowered its insane. Holy Antibuff already strips Shelter, Deflector AND heal. If it took away the three boosts aswell i would instantly loose 134 hitpoints, 32 agility, 30 xray and 30 poison resist. And as if that wasnt enough, i would loose holy heal sanctum too. PPUs arent supposed to be solo'd. With an antibuff that removes EVERY buff on someone you COULD solo a ppu. Even the best without a doubt.



3) Give run/cast to PPU's for shelter/deflector/heal (this would be a minimum PPU req).


Heal should be runcast. I dont think that it would be fair if shelter/deflector could be runcasted.



4) Instead of group heal give the PPU "team" heal. This would heal everybody in your team (very expensive mana cost).


Dumb idea. Group spells main negative is that you have to decide when and where to use it. Because if you do it in the wrong place or at the wrong time you might just be helping your enemy out.



5) Give APU runcast for all spells (also a min apu req)


Some spells arent supposed to be runcasted imo. But all non debuffing spells for apu should be able to be runcasted at capped runspeed.

petek480
05-08-03, 05:10
Yes this would be nice. Either make some sort of animation like a red ring spin around the target or make the buff flash red for a second before fading. TBH im not too fussed if they change this or not though. I just dont like the way apus are able to flood you with poison/fire to disguise the antibuff they are doing.


This has been mentioned a couple times in the thread but i guess i'll say it again. Antishelter is yellow and antideflector is blue. So if you see an apu casting an anti spell and it's yellow it's going to take off your shelter and if it's blue it's going to take off your deflector. Not sure what color antiheal is since i haven't seen anyone ever use it.

Pitspawn
05-08-03, 06:25
Yes i know that pete, but that isnt the point. Thats like ppu 101 stuff. I mean dont get me wrong i know i suck but jesus christ i know what colour the antibuffs are...

My point is if your screen is flooded with poison/fire spam whatever you cant see WHEN your shields are being dropped. You just have to kinda time it with when you see the apu stop casting, by which time you prolly lost half your health.

Most of the time when ive got 6 people chasing me an apu is sniping antibuff out of the corner of my eye. Like today arc casted HAB on me and i didnt even notice until my buff stack dropped by 3. I'm often so busy recasting heal, antiparalysis, dmgblocker i only notice my shelters drop as the stack height falls. When there is poison/fire spam that ability is gone.

What would be so hard about making poison/fire stacks come up as one symbol with like x3 or x5 etc?

petek480
05-08-03, 06:34
I just dont like the way apus are able to flood you with poison/fire to disguise the antibuff they are doing.

Sorry, I guess I misunderstood you. But that sentence does sound like you're talking about not knowing what antispell an apu is using.

Pitspawn
05-08-03, 06:37
"to disguise the antibuff they are doing."

Notice i said the and not what. Im sorry ill be careful how i word what i say in future.