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View Full Version : Why vet players moan, and why the GR change is good



MrBane
03-08-03, 22:12
:D

First off, the game world of Neocron is meant to be huge, hard to traverse, and keep us entertained for a long time.

The Gene Replicator factor benefits us in that it allows us to tag parts of the map to be reached later on, or to spawn at from death.

Players whom have been around longer than this patch, will therefore, undoubtedly moan about it, because just as why people moan about not being in Beta anymore, things were easier back then.

I believe the GR policy is a good one, as it makes you appreciate the Neocron world, and whilst true, most of us pre-patch players will find it annoying, that's only because we are used to having any zone just a click or two away from our reach.

For the new players, post-patch, the game now has so much more for them in terms of longevity and exploration. It also gives a purpose to vehicle specced characters, as people will now pay for Bus trips, etcetc.

So, long live the GR change, stop moaning those of you that are, spare the 12 points in (Dex?) required to get a Speedbike, and enjoy your new world.

Arcadius
03-08-03, 22:16
Do you really think you're gonna get people to listen to your arguement when you tell them to stop moaning?





90% of the people on this board think insulting or demeaning people who have a differing opinion will somehow make them see the light. :rolleyes:

Lexxuk
03-08-03, 22:16
Originally posted by MrBane
because just as why people moan about not being in Beta anymore, things were easier back then.


U lost me about then, Beta was harder, you couldnt GR most places, cause you could turret the GR to hell, you could also have infinite turrets if you so desired.

You lost items in warzones, and by items, i mean items in quickbelts, sans quickbelt. No slot one safety, so you could drop anything (I dropped a 7 slot Lightbringer 2 last day of beta).

So Beta was a lot harder, cause there was a real risk/reward system, and at times, GR'in somewhere was a major gamble in itself.

Rade
03-08-03, 22:24
Im with ya 100%, we need more risks and more grief from the game itself :P no GR teleporting, more looting.

REMUS
03-08-03, 22:32
I wasnt gonna post becuase i think these type of posts are stupid.

What is it a post to reassure youself that you are right?
You want to up your post count?

is this a post telling us we are all wrong and you are right? your post says to me, you have picked up things that ppl have said in conversations about beta, add'ed your own sub reality jigg to it, and added a small point in there somewhere.

This isnt spam its trolling

I cant take anyone with a LE in at rank 55+ seriously, call me 1337 dick head, call me a kid with his mommys credit card, i really dont care becuase i know what type of person sticks to these type of self image obsessive selfish ideals, and i wouldnt have anything to do with you in real life.

thats why i wasnt going to post but now im gonna get a warning yippe.................

MrBane
03-08-03, 22:44
and i wouldnt have anything to do with you in real life.

Don't worry, I'm sure the feeling would be quite mutual.

No, I simply wanted to put my opinion into the mixture, which is, oooh, what a Forum is for. If you don't like my opinion, or don't see a point to it, then, don't reply.

Quite a simple concept really.


No slot one safety

I prefer that approach, it adds a much more dynamic and dangerous style of gameplay to things, knowing that your most valuable piece of kit is at risk.

The end result of the GR policy change, is that now hopefully we can see more furious fighting over certain Ops, such as Cycrow. Although that's not really changed a great deal on Pluto, hopefully it will start to sort itself out.

Arcadius
03-08-03, 23:19
I don't like not havign one slot safety one bit. The only way i'll be in favor of it is if you don't need stupid hacking to open quickbelts.

icarium
03-08-03, 23:28
you missed one crucial point...

what new players?

any new peeps that come on to NC are probably ganked py l337 pvpers while trying to figure out wtf is going on, so give up and go play sommat else =/

i would bet money that the people who play NC now were playing it 6 months ago, with VERY few new players

shalille
03-08-03, 23:37
MrBane, I dunno if you would find this travellign such fun if you didnt have an LE.

Its one thing to spend 20 minutes getting to a hunting ground when you arent going to risk dropping a 5 slot spell there I'm sure its lots of fun.

However if you dont have an LE and do drop a 5 slot spell at a hunting ground ie: crp caves , then having to spend another 20 minutes trying to get back just to retrieve your belt before a teammate steals it or someone hacks it, then the I think you would find this "Exploration" a lot less fun.

A main reason ppl hunt near GRs is because they can return there quickly when they die, this isnt an issue for LE's but it certainly is for non-LE players.

lullysing
04-08-03, 00:03
I haven't played the game since the GR changes where implemented : I had stability problems with my machine and completely wiped the floor with my operating system in order to dedicate the box's future use to serverdom.

But one thing for sure: things are going to be more natural. People are now mostly going to go for ops that are close to their home base, or somewhere accessible.

Take the mercs: now they will probably fight tooth and nails for northstar, rockshore and whatever that uplink's name is. The TGs will now probably care for ops not IMMEDIATLY under their control, if only for long range outpost/repping. Ops are going to be a radiation point for each faction to control.

And those that moan about things, lemme remind you that phoenix now has a special on speedbikes, and that everyone, including tanks, can drive those anywhere on the map.

REMUS
04-08-03, 01:52
Originally posted by shalille
MrBane, I dunno if you would find this travellign such fun if you didnt have an LE.

Its one thing to spend 20 minutes getting to a hunting ground when you arent going to risk dropping a 5 slot spell there I'm sure its lots of fun.

However if you dont have an LE and do drop a 5 slot spell at a hunting ground ie: crp caves , then having to spend another 20 minutes trying to get back just to retrieve your belt before a teammate steals it or someone hacks it, then the I think you would find this "Exploration" a lot less fun.

A main reason ppl hunt near GRs is because they can return there quickly when they die, this isnt an issue for LE's but it certainly is for non-LE players.

exactly, yet mr bane doesnt quite get "it" i can hardly find the effort to tpye on such a stupid topic, pushing it back up the top of the board, this isnt even worth disscussing, just a few more marks for the ol post count........

:rolleyes:


Originally posted by MrBane
Don't worry, I'm sure the feeling would be quite mutual.

No, I simply wanted to put my opinion into the mixture, which is, oooh, what a Forum is for. If you don't like my opinion, or don't see a point to it, then, don't reply.

Quite a simple concept really.



I prefer that approach, it adds a much more dynamic and dangerous style of gameplay to things, knowing that your most valuable piece of kit is at risk.

The end result of the GR policy change, is that now hopefully we can see more furious fighting over certain Ops, such as Cycrow. Although that's not really changed a great deal on Pluto, hopefully it will start to sort itself out.

yes it is a forum and this is my opinion on this pile of shit topic. And what fighting have you fucking seen, ur talking out of your ass AGAIN! mr fucking LE

Breschau
04-08-03, 01:55
I believe the GR policy is a good one, as it makes you appreciate the Neocron world, and whilst true, most of us pre-patch players will find it annoying, that's only because we are used to having any zone just a click or two away from our reach.

I dunno that I'm a vet, but I've been around for a reasonable length of time. And the reason I'm not too keen on the current GR setup isn't that I'm used to the old instateleport everywhere method. It's that I'm used to running across the wasteland. I've done it loads of times.

Now the reason this makes me less than happy is that there's not really any more wonder out there. No more seeing things for the first time, or exploring, or whatever else. Heck, there's barely any danger - I've died travelling the wasteland once in the last, I dunno, 20 trips I made. And that one time was when I zoned only to find myself zoning my combat rank 15 spy into a pair of desert reptiles. Most journeys consist of pointing the general direction, hit autorun, and wait. Occasionally changing course a few degrees if I spot a hoverbomber or something.

Vehicles make it a little less tedious, but only a little due to the number of times I either a) zone to find myself in a sea of beige and have to relog to fix it (or sometimes rezone.. though that doesn't always work - i bounce off the zone line sometimes instead) or b) appear at the other side of the zone to my vehicle. a) happened 5 times and b) once while travelling from Tech Haven to Syncon today (no abnormal pings or anything).

Lexxuk
04-08-03, 02:09
Funnily enough, this entire GR owning thing, will only be fully tested when Neptune comes out. It will be, just like beta afaik.

There will be no 1 slot safety, or quick belts or non drop's in warzones. So, your out hunting at your fav spot, you die, you cant GR anywhere near where u died to, it takes u 15 mins to run back to where you were, and boom, whatever you dropped, has vanished, totally, and forever.

The GR's that are not in Op's however, El Farid and Escuador, are broke, and the odds are you'll land up near a) a DoY bot or b) a Grim Chaser.

Its bad enough that now clans can GR under their Op's without synaptic, that the attacking clan now has to come from several zones away, get past turrets, and then find that the op owners are there anyhow. The turning off of GR's in not really required, just a turret to warn you ur op's under attack, and you can GR there in safety, same as you'd be able to if the attackers are 50 zones away and running in.

Helen Angilley
04-08-03, 02:12
People wanted Outposts to be more valuable, harder to topple and have a bigger impact on the game.

Guess they just forgot about their request when it finally happened.

KidWithStick
04-08-03, 02:13
oh yea...its so good infact i havnt lvled once since it was put on...thats fuckin great!

Arcadius
04-08-03, 02:14
Originally posted by Helen Angilley
People wanted Outposts to be more valuable, harder to topple and have a bigger impact on the game.

Guess they just forgot about their request when it finally happened.



You generalize too much.

Don't forget alot of people were in favor of this idea if new genreps and asgs were added.



Originally posted by icarium
you missed one crucial point...

what new players?

any new peeps that come on to NC are probably ganked py l337 pvpers while trying to figure out wtf is going on, so give up and go play sommat else =/

i would bet money that the people who play NC now were playing it 6 months ago, with VERY few new players

No offense, but that happens in almost every mmorpg. I'm betting MC5 is a big "turn off" factor to new people.

Helen Angilley
04-08-03, 02:17
Originally posted by Arcadius
You generalize too much.

Don't forget alot of people were in favor of this idea if new genreps and asgs were added.

But how many of these people kicked up a fuss about it?

Seems too many people are worried about testing their set-ups and what have you on the Test Server, rather than actually....y'know.....testing the things they asked for.

Lexxuk
04-08-03, 02:18
Op's have no impact on the game (still) in reality.

my guess is, KK wanted them to be some kind of trade centre, but messed up. You buy guns there that are crap (at a lab/op/fac/uplink), so you then have to go to Plaza 1 get the gun u made researched, and then constructed. Maybe if Lab's sold dirt cheap Res stuff, and fac's dirt cheap construct stuff, and the op owner could elect to turn off GR fee's, they would become useful. You would have people wanting to go to Op's to trade, instead of Plaza 1.

Now OP wars are "op is under attack" gr underground, attack op force, the fact op force walked 3 or 4 zones, makes no difference.

With the new vehicles coming in, will they really make much of a difference? Can you see the "ub3r PvP'ers" running ruond going "take out the rhino" or not? No, they will be spies and tank's domain, so, i dunno, bein able to turn off ur GR just cuts off most of the map for u, for no reason at all.

KidWithStick
04-08-03, 02:19
why dont they just make it so that ONLY the actual OP GR is blocked to people...this would leave leveling places like CRP open for people to GR to...now of course your thinking...well wtf is the point of that then?

the fact is that not all OP's have a major leveling place in the same sector with its own GR...infact what others are there except CRP? very few...theres tescom but you still need to go 1 sector away...sieger, but thats the same as tescom...etc...

only a select few OP's have other GR's in the same sector...SO WTF!?!?!? why cant they just make it so that only the OP GR is locked to everyone, instead of the whole zone?

enablerbr
04-08-03, 02:19
i'm not bothered by the current OP/GR thing. i would like to see a few more GOGO's thrown around the wastlands. lol, i tagged NC, TH and TG as a / newbie char. i only took 3 attempts to get to TG. even if you walk the wastelands as a newbie. it's still not a large map to cross.

Talios
04-08-03, 02:34
I would almost consider myself to be a seasoned player of Neocron..... but I am not moaning about the GR changes.... I think it makes them more realistic. GRs are sorta like draw bridges... who would lower them for the enemy?

QuantumDelta
04-08-03, 02:48
Originally posted by icarium
you missed one crucial point...

what new players?

any new peeps that come on to NC are probably ganked py l337 pvpers while trying to figure out wtf is going on, so give up and go play sommat else =/

i would bet money that the people who play NC now were playing it 6 months ago, with VERY few new players

The ignorance continues.

Most of the "1337" PvPers on my planet hunt PKers.
.........

KidWithStick
04-08-03, 02:52
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
The ignorance continues.

Most of the "1337" PvPers on my planet hunt PKers.
.........


:confused:

what planet are you from?

o_O

Smugly
04-08-03, 02:58
The whole problem with the world as I see it is that most of it is utterly bloody pointless. I mean, who uses the swamp regions? Most of the places I've gone passed are just a repeat of the zone I just went through. Frankly, I'm at the top end of the game now. I don't feel like wasting an hour of my valuable play time driving around places. That's why I've taken up Battlefield 1942 lately. I don't have the patience to invest in new and bigger time sinks.

Oh and we DON'T need more Grief. Grief is what puts people off this game. Why the hell should somebody elses day (mine) be ruined with a 30 minute stint in Plaza one trying to find that ever elusive poker because some capped twat with a CS thinks that the 5 seconds of glory in ganking a rank 27 unclanned spy is worth it?

And please don't give me "It's a violent Cyberpunk World" crap. That just doesn't stick. In such a world EVERYBODY'S a threat. That's not the case in Neocron.

Monthar
04-08-03, 03:21
Originally posted by MrBane
:D

First off, the game world of Neocron is meant to be huge, hard to traverse, and keep us entertained for a long time.

The Gene Replicator factor benefits us in that it allows us to tag parts of the map to be reached later on, or to spawn at from death.

Players whom have been around longer than this patch, will therefore, undoubtedly moan about it, because just as why people moan about not being in Beta anymore, things were easier back then.

I believe the GR policy is a good one, as it makes you appreciate the Neocron world, and whilst true, most of us pre-patch players will find it annoying, that's only because we are used to having any zone just a click or two away from our reach.

For the new players, post-patch, the game now has so much more for them in terms of longevity and exploration. It also gives a purpose to vehicle specced characters, as people will now pay for Bus trips, etcetc.

So, long live the GR change, stop moaning those of you that are, spare the 12 points in (Dex?) required to get a Speedbike, and enjoy your new world.

Well try to keep in mind that that most MMORPGs are Fantasy based and almost all of thsoe have had some form of teleport. Sure it was usually limited to a few classes but those had group teleport spells so everyone had access for varying amounts. Here the same principal was accomplished using technology.

I could understand having the GRs only allow your clan's faction and it's allies to teleport to it. However, having the settings for Clan only and Anyone are counter productive. Clan only setting doesn't make sense because your clan is supposed to be a step up from runner in support of your faction, thus preventing other members of your faction from having accesss makes no sense at all in the storyline. Allowing access to everyone follows the same lines though to the opposite extreme, because by doign so your clan effectively tells your faction that you not only have no interested in helping them but you're allowing the faction enemies access to cause problems for the faction.

Lanigav
04-08-03, 10:04
Basically what Smugly sad. All it really does is add more grief, and more grief is the last thing you want in an MMORPG.

Nasher
04-08-03, 11:21
Teleporting makes NC feel a lot smaller than it really is, taking teleporting out totaly (except to your appartment and OPs) would make it a lot more interesting :)

svenw
04-08-03, 11:55
Well, I really like the change in GR. What I moan about is the missing of additional measures.
We need some new Free GR with a garage. And the possibility to get back vehicles before time. Thats all folks.
I'm a BD on Jupiter. My Faction is small and we have only some OP in the souethwest. So what would a BD newbie do? He will be unable to get to any hunting ground MB/CRP without a big time investment. It will be nearly impossible to get back the QB if you die and as a newbie you mostly die a lot till you know what to do.

So we need Free GRs with Garages. One near the the BD at J04 and a free GR at the race track.

Plus an option that you can click at your own vehicle at tell it to go back to the garage for 1-2k.

With these tiny cahnges I would really like the new system.

mclayton
04-08-03, 12:14
I think the main thing with major changes to the game is that they must add more fun for the players. The new GR rules add fun for some players, but not the majority of us.

My hybrid was nerfed to hell, so is now APU. This means he dies from a mechturtles fart if he makes a mistake, certainly more often than before. I like to hunt warbots, and my favourite spot is a twenty minute walk from MB or TH, so every time I die I have to drag my butt back to Plaza 1 to get poked and then do the twenty minute walk. This doesn't add any fun for me, in fact I tend to get so pissed off when I die (especially when due to lag/bugs etc.) that I go and play something else.

KK promised extra GR's and they are not here. I'd like to know if KK will introduce them soon (how hard can it be?), as I can't see any way the current system will entice new players, only piss off their existing player base.

MjukisDjur
04-08-03, 12:17
As a tg or ally on saturn its really easy to say.
But, if you play a tangent like me then all your high lvl hunt zones are removed from you. I have to walk from across the map to get somewhere. Imagine how fun it is if you fuck up and die within 2 minutes after you got there. You know, killing aggies dont work that well after 90+ lvl

and no, I dont pvp or hunt for ops very much so dont give that crap that you can reclaim the GR. With the old hacker rules it might have worked but now... nah

DetectiveKimble
04-08-03, 15:26
The new genrep system isn't good at all, and the only way i can see anyone liking it is if they're capped and have never actually tried defending their OP since the changes. Let me give you a scenario:

A runner (let's just call him, oh, say Detective John Kimble) is a 3 chev black dragon spy. Every wasteland faction is hostile to him, so that rules out tagging TH, MB or TG genreps. His spy doesn't have alot of con points to spare in ath and doesn't run too fast. He has reached the point where he is above leveling off cyclops' so he decides to go out and kill WBs.
Unfortunately to get from the city to his warbot hunting area, he has to spend upwards of half an hour hiking from the furthest genrep from the city he has access to (crest village). If he hikes up the center of the map he has to sneak around Y troopers in the mountains, if he goes up east he has to avoid flame mobs and TG guards and west, he has to avoid the TH turrets.
If through some miracle, the spy survives and makes it to his hunting ground upward of 30 minutes after he started, he takes out his fusion rifle and finds a WB. Unfortunately by now it's night time, and during the night if a WB is after you, they can attack you before you can actually see them to target them.
So unfortunately the 3 chev spy dies after killing only 2 or 3 WBs and all he has to show for it is some expensive junk and an advanced nerves 3.
After standing around in plaza 1 waiting for a poke for 20 minutes, he thinks to himself "Screw this, i'm going to go buy Starwars KOTOR on xbox and play it until they FIX THE GOD DAMN GENREPS so i'm not imprisoned in the city".

And spawning underground may sound like a good thing, but everyone just camps the UG entrance because they know that you can't come from anywhere else, because all the other OPs nearby have their genreps locked up. So when you go above ground, by the time you've synced in you've already eaten a parashock and you're about to get damage boosted.

IMO the genrep security crap should be removed. But the clan getting money from people GRing there is actually a pretty clever idea. I'm sure it was put in to be an insentive for clans to leave their GRs open, but it's not working. Perhaps take the GR security out but leave the money gain from people using GR?

Anyway that's my 2 cents.

Futureman
04-08-03, 15:51
just get a hovertec. You are a spy, that's not a serious stretch. then you can be at a WB hunting Spot in less than 5 minutes. Just tag a Genrep at Crahn Abbey and get the vehicle from there (its the closest vehicle station to a genrep. Then hed up through the mountains and into the steppes. Plenty of WBs there and it only takes me about 5 min to get there.

if you can't drive, then i am sure it does suck

Lucjan
04-08-03, 15:52
I really do like the new GR rules. It makes vehicles more usefull and it "boosts" the size of NC. Being the "wrong" faction makes life much harder, but at least factions and their strenght are getting a meaning now. Holding OPs for a faction makes sense and it is not just something to get some cash or show that a clan can hold OPs.

Fighting for an OP got harder, but it also got more interesting. Seems its time for some new strategies and I've already seen some nice ones including vehicles. Really impressive.

FireWarrior
04-08-03, 17:05
I don't like the idea, but that's because of the risk of PKs and the fact that 2/3 of the map is at this points covered in DoY bots of one type or another... combine this with the fact that TG has (on my server) locked almost all GRs and you have a problem.

It's possible to debate whether or not this is good forever.... and no matter what is said we won't agree completely.... that's the way opinions work.

One of the only ways that it would be possible to retain the idea of a "larger" gameworld while also alleviating some of the fear/anger/tension/whatever that this GR thing gives is... to get more GRs and Vehicle pads.

Simple as that. Find the 'thin red line' between always accesible GRs, a big gameworld and a medium-lvl challenge STILL in getting to the really good hunting spots. The best way to do this is altering the number of GRs amd Vehicle depots in un-lockedable zones until you reach a point where a OP is still more "worth" and the timesink problem is minimzed.... Regardless of opinions, this is and most likely will always be the most simple and easy way of balancing the current problem.

Tregard
04-08-03, 17:14
The one thing I hate about the new GR scheme is this....

I get killed by a warbot, I attempt to chose a close by GR to get my bp back...

/rant on

AND I GET RE-DAMN-DIRECTED TO MY PRIMARY APT!

/rant off

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr - hisssssssssssss - spit :mad:

Rade
04-08-03, 17:17
Originally posted by Tregard
The one thing I hate about the new GR scheme is this....

I get killed by a warbot, I attempt to chose a close by GR to get my bp back...

/rant on

AND I GET RE-DAMN-DIRECTED TO MY PRIMARY APT!

/rant off

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr - hisssssssssssss - spit :mad:


I agree thats a problem tho, they just should do nothing if you cant go there.

BlackPrince
04-08-03, 17:19
I like the new changes, wish they'd been in since the beginning of retail.

Now taking OPs requires more than "GR and ZERG!".

icarium
04-08-03, 19:44
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
The ignorance continues.

Most of the "1337" PvPers on my planet hunt PKers.
.........

lol dude stop flaming me and go take some more pics of yourself with girls, hey post them here i might be impressed :rolleyes:

Spy<VS>Spy
04-08-03, 19:57
i'm alright with it, i just feel it was done too soon.

i mean, things such as faction balance and all those variables where not considered and like wise more Genreps needed to be added for public use. then you have an easy to understand map, which is still crazy to understand with no documentation other then on the forum...

vehicles arnt ready to make the wastelands their own yet...

but thats just my oppinion, if you count me as a vet. i was always for it, but i was oppossed of it before other changes came about.

Lexxuk
04-08-03, 21:41
Originally posted by Tregard

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr - hisssssssssssss - spit :mad:

awww, there there *pat pat* come to my apartment some time and I'll cheer u up hehehe :angel:

QuantumDelta
04-08-03, 21:58
Originally posted by icarium
lol dude stop flaming me and go take some more pics of yourself with girls, hey post them here i might be impressed :rolleyes: I'm fine, thank ya very much ;)

Tregard
04-08-03, 22:21
Originally posted by Lexxuk
awww, there there *pat pat* come to my apartment some time and I'll cheer u up hehehe :angel:

o_O

ermmm.....Lexxuk is patting me?

*runs and hides under sink, baring claws*

*shivers*

icarium
04-08-03, 23:00
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
I'm fine, thank ya very much ;)

really? who told you that? :confused:

REMUS
05-08-03, 01:13
Originally posted by icarium
really? who told you that? :confused:

well i dont know you for a fool for shit, but i know qd fairly well, and hes a thougherly nice chap, learn respect for ppl with 4k post counts except for arcadius........

:rolleyes:

QuantumDelta
05-08-03, 01:49
LOL *sweatdrops* post counts don't mean anythin man.... :P

REMUS
05-08-03, 03:55
well you have to be pretty dam dedicated to a forum/game to clock up that amount of posts QD! even if it just :rolleyes: spam like arc LOL

Promethius
05-08-03, 05:25
Originally posted by MrBane
:D

First off, the game world of Neocron is meant to be huge, hard to traverse, and keep us entertained for a long time.

The Gene Replicator factor benefits us in that it allows us to tag parts of the map to be reached later on, or to spawn at from death.

Players whom have been around longer than this patch, will therefore, undoubtedly moan about it, because just as why people moan about not being in Beta anymore, things were easier back then.

I believe the GR policy is a good one, as it makes you appreciate the Neocron world, and whilst true, most of us pre-patch players will find it annoying, that's only because we are used to having any zone just a click or two away from our reach.

For the new players, post-patch, the game now has so much more for them in terms of longevity and exploration. It also gives a purpose to vehicle specced characters, as people will now pay for Bus trips, etcetc.

So, long live the GR change, stop moaning those of you that are, spare the 12 points in (Dex?) required to get a Speedbike, and enjoy your new world.

Well for one thing. I think its immature of you to target the 'vet' class saying we are moaning. Well for one thing ALL the old school players i kno have no complaints about the GR change. Infact we love it and so do i.

See wat u should have done was jsut kept it general such as people who dislike the change.

Promethius
05-08-03, 05:31
Originally posted by DetectiveKimble
The new genrep system isn't good at all, and the only way i can see anyone liking it is if they're capped and have never actually tried defending their OP since the changes. Let me give you a scenario:

A runner (let's just call him, oh, say Detective John Kimble) is a 3 chev black dragon spy. Every wasteland faction is hostile to him, so that rules out tagging TH, MB or TG genreps. His spy doesn't have alot of con points to spare in ath and doesn't run too fast. He has reached the point where he is above leveling off cyclops' so he decides to go out and kill WBs.
Unfortunately to get from the city to his warbot hunting area, he has to spend upwards of half an hour hiking from the furthest genrep from the city he has access to (crest village). If he hikes up the center of the map he has to sneak around Y troopers in the mountains, if he goes up east he has to avoid flame mobs and TG guards and west, he has to avoid the TH turrets.
If through some miracle, the spy survives and makes it to his hunting ground upward of 30 minutes after he started, he takes out his fusion rifle and finds a WB. Unfortunately by now it's night time, and during the night if a WB is after you, they can attack you before you can actually see them to target them.
So unfortunately the 3 chev spy dies after killing only 2 or 3 WBs and all he has to show for it is some expensive junk and an advanced nerves 3.
After standing around in plaza 1 waiting for a poke for 20 minutes, he thinks to himself "Screw this, i'm going to go buy Starwars KOTOR on xbox and play it until they FIX THE GOD DAMN GENREPS so i'm not imprisoned in the city".

And spawning underground may sound like a good thing, but everyone just camps the UG entrance because they know that you can't come from anywhere else, because all the other OPs nearby have their genreps locked up. So when you go above ground, by the time you've synced in you've already eaten a parashock and you're about to get damage boosted.

IMO the genrep security crap should be removed. But the clan getting money from people GRing there is actually a pretty clever idea. I'm sure it was put in to be an insentive for clans to leave their GRs open, but it's not working. Perhaps take the GR security out but leave the money gain from people using GR?

Anyway that's my 2 cents.

Ok at the sound of it that you are angry because you cannot GR anywhere and you are to lazy to run/go by vehicle.

One thing u failed to mention was venture warp. I mean that can get u around fairly well tag a few GRs. Make sure u got ur LE in so u don't drop a belt if u die. but if ur a weak slow spy u already got an LE in.

cracky
05-08-03, 05:52
The change is a good idea but, they need to put in alot of midway genreps all over the map for it to work and still let noobs level and so on.

DetectiveKimble
05-08-03, 08:27
Ok at the sound of it that you are angry because you cannot GR anywhere and you are to lazy to run/go by vehicle.
Not so much "lazy" as "wanting to have fun when playing". As i've said running has never taken less than 30 something minutes for me, taking into account dodging mobs as i mentioned already. I also can't spare the 37 in dex to use a hovertec, because i need my RC jacked up high enough to actually make a dent in the WB with the fusion rifle that i'm imped up to use.


One thing u failed to mention was venture warp. I mean that can get u around fairly well tag a few GRs.
Used it once, spawned near a TH turret and died in a few seconds. Haven't used it since.


Make sure u got ur LE in so u don't drop a belt if u die. but if ur a weak slow spy u already got an LE in.
Yes of course i already have my LE in, because i instantly left the clan and buddies that i've had since late beta/start of retail so i could put it in just so i wouldn't lose my belt because of a new, stupid, poorly thought out patch that decided to put a 40 minute interval between when i died and when i can get my belt back (not counting poking time). o_O

cracky
05-08-03, 10:07
Why don't they just let us turret the genrep like beta?

Stigmata
05-08-03, 10:24
i love the genrep settings, but i am biased coz my clan holdsm half of them, when i play on my alts (not in clan) it is difficult but i dont have the problems the blackdragon runner does.

Perhaps you should change faction or just accept that BD is the hardest faction to play.

Andy

Lanigav
05-08-03, 19:51
Well for one thing. I think its immature of you to target the 'vet' class saying we are moaning. Well for one thing ALL the old school players i kno have no complaints about the GR change. Infact we love it and so do i.

Well, I can tell right now that most of the vet players I hang out with positively dispise it, myself included. And pretty much all of the mid-level, non vet players I've talked with (few as they are), are pissed as hell because of it, because leveling just became exponentially more difficult and frustrating.

To those saying, "well you're too lazy to get a vehicle", what happens if it gets destroyed along with you? You have to wait a FULL HOUR now to get it back, basically meaning you have to wait a full hour before you can do anything again, unless you're some uber fast tank in which you won't have a vehicle in the first place. That's total bullshit.

I've been playing games for along time now, and if there's one thing I've learned about them, especially in MMORPGs, making things frustrating and difficult that shouldn't be or weren't before, does NOT equate to more fun. People seem to forget that the reasons we play games are for fun and entertainment, yet now it seems we've become so jaded, especially as far as MMORPGs are concerned, that we play them out of obligation and the need to be "t3h Ub3r".

*vents anger by throwing chairs around the room, and goes back to play his Neo-Geo*

Promethius
05-08-03, 19:58
Originally posted by DetectiveKimble
Used it once, spawned near a TH turret and died in a few seconds. Haven't used it since.


Yes of course i already have my LE in, because i instantly left the clan and buddies that i've had since late beta/start of retail so i could put it in just so i wouldn't lose my belt because of a new, stupid, poorly thought out patch that decided to put a 40 minute interval between when i died and when i can get my belt back (not counting poking time). o_O

Well venture warp is a solution to getting a good deal of distant GRs. Also just because you put an LE in and leave a clan for a day to tag GR's doesn't mean you have zero contact with old friends.

Or wat you could do instead of complaining about how much this GR system sux....is just get some friends and allies take an OP and OMG look you can GR now.

cracky
05-08-03, 20:23
"tagging" genreps doesn't mean anything when you can't rep to them which is the problem in the first place.

Edit: also this problem mainly effects low levels not vets, because it makes it harder for them to level.

shalille
05-08-03, 20:34
Originally posted by Promethius

Or wat you could do instead of complaining about how much this GR system sux....is just get some friends and allies take an OP and OMG look you can GR now.

That isnt as feasible as you make it sound, its the non-capped players that need to level who need to use these grs, and suggesting that you set up a clan of these half-capped players just so they can try to take an op from the existing clan of fully/near capped players who own it is just pointless.

Even if they did take the op, what then, its not like they will be able to level there since the remainder of their online play time from now on will be trying to defend the op.....


There was a distinction between players who wanted to level and hunt, and players who wanted to PVP in Clans and op wars, now KK have simply crushed the levelling players to suit the needs of the Clan Wars. I wanted to level up to near cap before I joined a clan, now it seems I not only need to join a clan, but also need to join one of the winning clans in order to level up....

How is it fair that 2 or 3 clans of capped players, most of whom capped before these changes (not to mention farmed mc5) now can play their little turf wars on the server at the expense of everyone else ?

thadeus
05-08-03, 21:42
ok this aint even about the post .... but wth is up with 1337 yes i know what it means but thats nothign close to it ... is this an im cool statement .... like ill haxor your gamesor and youll hatzor mezor . im mean comon diggy g ....... strait framing .. u all remind me of pooty tang ... what id is down low on the sminy thang
decifer ths one 43110 !!!! lol oh yeah i use the venture warp for getting around doesnt always work great but it gets me out there

mclayton
06-08-03, 00:13
I used Venture Warp once. It put me right next to 4 Jonny 5's and a few Grim Chasers. Did'nt try it again :-)

"i love the genrep settings, but i am biased coz my clan holdsm half of them, when i play on my alts (not in clan) it is difficult but i dont have the problems the blackdragon runner does.

Andy"

Well that's all fine for you then matey. You enjoy your game at the expense of the rest of us.

NB: sorry, haven't worked out how to quote properly.

Promethius
06-08-03, 03:35
Originally posted by shalille
That isnt as feasible as you make it sound, its the non-capped players that need to level who need to use these grs, and suggesting that you set up a clan of these half-capped players just so they can try to take an op from the existing clan of fully/near capped players who own it is just pointless.

Even if they did take the op, what then, its not like they will be able to level there since the remainder of their online play time from now on will be trying to defend the op.....


There was a distinction between players who wanted to level and hunt, and players who wanted to PVP in Clans and op wars, now KK have simply crushed the levelling players to suit the needs of the Clan Wars. I wanted to level up to near cap before I joined a clan, now it seems I not only need to join a clan, but also need to join one of the winning clans in order to level up....

How is it fair that 2 or 3 clans of capped players, most of whom capped before these changes (not to mention farmed mc5) now can play their little turf wars on the server at the expense of everyone else ?

I think i may havea solution. Le people can GR anywhere. I mean technically LEs aren't involved in clans and ther wars so why should they be punished for not being in a clan. But with this i understand people could abuse as in taek Les out once tehre there but i don't think it would be too bad ofa problem.

Anyone like this idea? If ya guys do i could start a new thread. Any input?

Hwarang S.
06-08-03, 18:55
Originally posted by Rade
Im with ya 100%, we need more risks and more grief from the game itself :P no GR teleporting, more looting.

YEAH! Sychs and lockups aren't enough! :eek: o_O

And while your at it, NERF TeH MONKEHS!!!! 8| :p

Wait, I'm a Monkeh too..... 8| Nevermind.... :p

W/W/H/B/LE/Korn