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Fawkes
03-08-03, 00:15
IMPORTANT NOTE: Before you vote or post a reply, no matter what your oppinion on PPU monks is, please, read this post thoroughly. I believe we have a problem with PPU monks and this problem should be addressed. I would like you to be serious about this and post your thoughts on the subject if you reckon this idea is bad or not good enough, because a solution for this problem must be found.
I will try to explain myself as well as I can and explain how I see the problem with PPU monks. I apologize in advance for any spelling or grammar mistakes.

Some people say PPU monks are overpowered. I do not agree. PPU monks are not overpowered as long as they are alone, even though you cannot kill them, simply because they can't kill you (except maybe if they use DEX-based weapons, but that is not what I want to talk about).
On a side note: Most people will probably find this statement silly, because it's pretty much obvious, but I will say such things along my post to make it as clear as possible.
On the other hand, when a PPU monk hooks up with a teammate who specializes in combat, he becomes a killing machine; he will cast shields on his teammate, thus making him almost godlike, even if that teammate doesn't have a good setup; he will freeze you and damage-boost you, thus making you a stitting duck compared to his teammate, and when you do get to hit his teammate, the PPU monk will heal him, causing his health bar to jump right back to full health. No matter what setup you have, no matter how long have you worked on it, you will not win versus a team of a PPU monk who knows what he is doing and his combat character friend.
This becomes even more messy and unbalanced when it comes to op wars or mass fights.

During mass fights or op wars, if one of the fighting teams consists of a PPU monk (or more), all runners will get their buffs: if it's heavy combat boost, rifle boost, pistol boost or APU boost, Heat or Hazard, and of course, Shelter and Deflector. This automatically makes the fight unfair if the second team does not have a PPU monk to buff them, but usually, both teams will have PPU monks, so let's look deeper into it.
During the fight, you will encounter rival runners, while both sides are buffed. This makes it fair, but, unfortunately, this isn't a 1on1 fight, where two runners fight to death without any outer disturbances. Since this is a mass fight, you might find yourself surrounded by two or three buffed rival runners. By the time you'd get one of them down to 3/4 of his health (since he is buffed and can withstand lots of damage), you'd be dead, so skills aren't really involved in such occasions. Or, you could find yourself fighting against a rival runner. You might be on your way to defeat him, but hey, his PPU friend is still there, seeing him losing a fight, so he heals him. Takes no more than 2 seconds and his health is back to the top, giving him all the chances in the world to beat you, even if you are more skilled than he is.

A little note on skills: I'm not talking about your character's skills (INT, STR, etc.), but I'm talking about skills that are required in order to win a FPS (First Person Shooter) fight. I'm talking about aiming, I'm talking about dodging, I'm talking about predicting your opponent's moves. These simply do not apply when a PPU monk is involved.

Now, back to what I was saying. Here's another example (the most common one, perhaps): you're fighting against a rival runner while everyone around you is busy with their own, fighting as well. Then, bang, you get shocked, sometimes damage-boosted, too. Bye bye, skills, hello, GR.

Why have I worked so hard on my character, tweaked it so many times just to find myself helpless against rival runners and their PPU monk, which indeed is overpowered when hooked up with combat characters?

Now, my idea is basically tweaking PPU spells so they will be used in a more reasonable way than they are now. I will talk about each spell group and say what I think should be done with them.

Shelter / Deflector: The Shelter and Deflector spells, the shields, last no more than 120 seconds. Therefore, a PPU monk should be able to cast them on others no more than once per 120 seconds. This will prevent PPU monks from buffing all of their teammates, because once they had buffed one runner, they will not be able to cast buffs on another one (but themselves) for 120 seconds. By the time those 120 seconds had past, casting shields on another runner would be pointless, because the previous runner would lose his buffs.
Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about self buffs. I have no problem with PPU monks buffing themselves and there should be no time limit for that.
This change would also force the fighting team to choose a leader, a striker to go first ahead, who will be the only buffed runner in the team.

Resist Boosters: Same deal. These spells last for 600 seconds, and should not be cast again until 600 seconds have past. Again, I have no problem with PPU monks buffing themselves with any spell, so there should be no time limit on self buffs.

Combat / Tradeskill Boosters: I don't really see a problem with these spells; they don't make runners any more stronger then they were (except maybe Melee Boost, which gives more health), but only boost weapon skill and damage (slightly). Should stay the same.

Sanctum / Group Spells: REMOVE. I'm talking about Shelter and Deflector here. Basically, same spells, but more effective because they save precious time, and with my time limit suggestion, they can't exist. See Heal spells for more information.

Damage Boost: REMOVE or make it work on mobs only. Once you are damage-boosted, it automatically makes the fight unfair. Again, why would I work so hard on my character setup and tweak it so many times just to be gimped in a fight by a PPU monk?

Shock Spells: see Damage Boost.

Resurrection Spells: Should stay the same. It doesn't make anyone overpowered, stronger or any more skilled than they were. If a runner is killed once, he can be killed again.

Now some of you may say: "Pfft, all these nerfs he's talking about... might as well suggest removing PPU monks completely". But, in my oppinion, all these shields and resist boosters should be luxury. In any normal MultiPlayer-FPS game, shields and other bonuses are well hidden and, once taken, will only respawn after a certain amount of time (and don't give me that: "Oh, this isn't Quake :rolleyes:" rubbish, because, yeah, of course this isn't a normal MP-FPS game like Quake, or Unreal Tournament or any other (MP-FPS) game, but you know damn well that this game's gameplay is based on these very same games that I mentioned, and what I am talking about here is gameplay - the same basic gameplay that we have in Neocron and in Quake).

Heal Spells: The Holy Heal. A very great spell. Since (in my... PPU monks idea thing) shields and resist boosters have time limit, I believe that's enough. This spell should remain the same. Heal Sanctum / Group spells should remain the same as well.

Lastly, I want to remind you that I do not want self buffs changed. I don't have a problem with that. But the runners who are buffed by a PPU monk and fight with a PPU monk are what bothers me. These occasions, when you can't have a fair fight make me lose my will to play and annoy me, because I might be better than that buffed runner who I am fighting against, but, as I said, my skills don't matter when a PPU is involved.

You might not like this idea, but it could be a start. There is obviously a problem with PPU monks, and those who say otherwise are probably those who enjoy it while it works for their own favor.
Please, don't just disqualify this idea and move on. I believe this is, generally, a good idea, and it can be developed into something better that will be acceptable by most players with your help.

P.S.

If you sleep with dead animals™, yet you like this idea or think it could be better, please, choose the first or third option, kthx.

Pitspawn
03-08-03, 00:24
Oh yay another nerf the ppu monks thread. Because we havent had the usual 3 a day today!

To me it looks like you dont like damage boost/parashock on ppus right? Damage boost is not a problem if you can run because the chances of you being hit is a lot less. Parashock is your real gripe i guess.


Let me say this. Remove parashock and what may seem a paradise at first becomes a living nightmare. People will complain that the enemies they fight can avoid death and run away too easily. People with insane agl/atl will suddenly become a problem especially at low fps. What happens next is people complain to KK. KK would lower maximum runspeed significantly across the board. Trust me it WOULD happen, totally predictable.

Id rather have parashocks in the game than have our max runspeed effectively halved. Parashock just needs its cast cost trippled so that it cannot be spammed. If parashock spamming becomes totally unviable the counters of parashock will be good.

Please remember a ppu's life is not as peachy as it may seem. Every nerf that hits us makes the game less and less fun for us. People rely so heavily on ppus. Dont be suprised if your bitch ppus that you keep on a leash reroll to something more fun.

Eledhbrant
03-08-03, 00:28
Yes i'm a ppu and so naturally you'd expect me to be against "nerfs" for my class...but the thing is I like these ideas as they happen to affect ALL ppus, so even though I can only buff one person (and am also fully protected, which is fine), the other side will only have one, or two persons buffed which makes for fairer fights.

Not sure about dmgboost and parashock though, as Pitspawn said it would result in lower runspeed...

Pitspawn
03-08-03, 00:32
There is quite a lot of skill buffing multitudes of people. A ppu's competence in battle is quite obvious when your groups shelters drop. The ppu must individually reshield all of his team mates with pinpoint accuracy and perfect timing. All the while he/she must heal who is needed and perhaps dmg boost/para the enemy.

Dropping ppus down to only allowing to buff one runner would take way too much skill away from playing a ppu. If my ppu is made so that it requires little or no skill to play i will cancel the account.

Promethius
03-08-03, 00:58
Originally posted by Fawkes

Shelter / Deflector: The Shelter and Deflector spells, the shields, last no more than 120 seconds. Therefore, a PPU monk should be able to cast them on others no more than once per 120 seconds. This will prevent PPU monks from buffing all of their teammates, because once they had buffed one runner, they will not be able to cast buffs on another one (but themselves) for 120 seconds. By the time those 120 seconds had past, casting shields on another runner would be pointless, because the previous runner would lose his buffs.
[/B][/QUOTE]

honestly i stopped reading ur post once i read this. Might as well have said "Hey everyone lets delete ppus" They are there to buff people and keep them alive...its THERE JOB. just like other classes are meant to KILL. you also could have said i don't like how constructers / researchers can do there jobs over and over. make it so they can research 1 bp per 120 secs.

i kno ur frustration but its part of the game. you live with it. its just a part of strategy. They are important jsut like the offence is important. You get shocked and dmg boost....take some drugs or get ressed by7 ur own ppu. Also you said ur screwed about fighting 2 buffed other opponents... i think thats also incorrect about the no skillz. When actually it means if u can take them down u HAVE skillz. Its not unheard of to pwn people with buffs. keep in mind i neva said easy but possible. also u can USE strategy. buffs only last for a good 120 secs resulting in u run or dodge them for that duration.

I mean you have thought hard on how u dislike ppus and u want them nerfed. I suggest u spend more thought on dealing with ppus ratehr than taking the easy route and screamin for a nerf.

Promethius
03-08-03, 01:01
Originally posted by Pitspawn
There is quite a lot of skill buffing multitudes of people. A ppu's competence in battle is quite obvious when your groups shelters drop. The ppu must individually reshield all of his team mates with pinpoint accuracy and perfect timing. All the while he/she must heal who is needed and perhaps dmg boost/para the enemy.

Dropping ppus down to only allowing to buff one runner would take way too much skill away from playing a ppu. If my ppu is made so that it requires little or no skill to play i will cancel the account.

i agree 100%. I've had my ppu for not nearly as long as you have had urs polarity but i kno the difficulties of rebuffing in battle. Also quite rejoyful when u slap those shelters and heals (and mad when u nail an enemy with one^^)

tho its really not the problem of ppus IMO. its the drugs do shit. the anti shock drugs should have a duration upon where u cannot be shocked again. like for 10 secs or so. while teh drugs running u cannot be shocked. also if u trie to chain eat these drugs u get the fuzzy screen.

Progenitor
03-08-03, 01:05
If we are going to nerf ppu - then it is not for the ppu monk, it is for the other non monk classes.

As a pure apu monk now, it is almost ironic at times that I see everyone and their brother able to at least cast heal on themselves - heck, I even had a TANK cast his heal on me.

Limit all other classes to no more than level one buffs and resists.

Make the dependence on the ppu monk more! Then see if everyone complains about his abilities.

-p

Promethius
03-08-03, 01:07
lmao. VIVE LAS PPU

Mumblyfish
03-08-03, 01:12
At the end of Fight Night, a PPU wasted my sorry APU arse*. I say all their spells should have a 50% chance of fizzling and causing a huge explosion in their face, triggering the kill_self command. That should make them balanced, as each of their spells would be like playing Russian Roulette, only you absolutely MUST lose. Also, resurrection should cause the caster (and all nearby players) to die on cast. This is to stop PPUs ressurecting whole teams.

*wank

Progenitor
03-08-03, 01:17
Originally posted by Mumblyfish
At the end of Fight Night, a PPU wasted my sorry APU arse*. I say all their spells should have a 50% chance of fizzling and causing a huge explosion in their face, triggering the kill_self command. That should make them balanced, as each of their spells would be like playing Russian Roulette, only you absolutely MUST lose. Also, resurrection should cause the caster (and all nearby players) to die on cast. This is to stop PPUs ressurecting whole teams.

*wank

I could see the spells having a percent chance of failing based on the target's level psi - maybe even a slight feedback damage on failure.

So, you'd like a ppu to wonder into a group of enemies - open up resurrection and kill all of them in one blow? That makes sence.

-p

Rade
03-08-03, 01:27
Originally posted by Pitspawn
Let me say this. Remove parashock and what may seem a paradise at first becomes a living nightmare. People will complain that the enemies they fight can avoid death and run away too easily. People with insane agl/atl will suddenly become a problem especially at low fps. What happens next is people complain to KK. KK would lower maximum runspeed significantly across the board. Trust me it WOULD happen, totally predictable.


I want runspeed reduced heavily across the board, people are running around like this is quake or something. Reduce it to the standards of todays fps games like CS or planetside, I think itd be hellalot more fun.

Promethius
03-08-03, 01:30
Originally posted by Rade
I want runspeed reduced heavily across the board, people are running around like this is quake or something. Reduce it to the standards of todays fps games like CS or planetside, I think itd be hellalot more fun.

nah that would suck. i like being able to move...which really ins't that fast.plus we have stamina (quake doesn't =P).

Rade
03-08-03, 01:34
With enough stamina boosters everyones a running about like Sonic all day. I just find it retarded when two guys with guns are running around eachother for 2 mins missing 75% of the shots.

Mumblyfish
03-08-03, 01:41
Originally posted by Progenitor
I could see the spells having a percent chance of failing based on the target's level psi - maybe even a slight feedback damage on failure.

So, you'd like a ppu to wonder into a group of enemies - open up resurrection and kill all of them in one blow? That makes sence.

-p
Do I have to make sarcasm that blatently obvious?

KidWithStick
03-08-03, 02:16
TBH, I did not read the whole post...but i pretty much got the message from the first few paragraphs.

PPU shields and buffs were already nerfed, and dont need to be nerfed again.

if both teams are fully buffed then it wont matter...if one enemy makes it back to his PPU to get healed, or his PPU runs up to him and heals him...thats all fine. then you should do the same.

this reminds me of a fight we (PIMP) was in against SXR at simmons...we were at the side entrance by the yo's building and they were in that building with the hack term in it...

it was a complete standoff and kind of pointless...although we did eventually get up to the building and killed some of them...NDA came from behind...but thats a diff story.

the point is it doesnt matter if they are buffed/ the PPU is good and heals his clan mates...thats the point of a team/PPU...

you can always do the same. and BTW there is still skill involved in mass fights...just different tactics are needed to win. if you see an enemy trying to kill a teamate then gain up on him and kill him. then the odds tip more in your favor...just keep doing that. now of course the other team is going to try and do the same to you...so it makes it a challenge.

so im just gonna say this to sum up my post. PPU's are not overpowered. PPU shields are not over powered. PPU/APU combos are tough...but not over powered....since thats the whole point of it.

KidWithStick
03-08-03, 02:16
TBH, I did not read the whole post...but i pretty much got the message from the first few paragraphs.

PPU shields and buffs were already nerfed, and dont need to be nerfed again.

if both teams are fully buffed then it wont matter...if one enemy makes it back to his PPU to get healed, or his PPU runs up to him and heals him...thats all fine. then you should do the same.

this reminds me of a fight we (PIMP) was in against SXR at simmons...we were at the side entrance by the yo's building and they were in that building with the hack term in it...

it was a complete standoff and kind of pointless...although we did eventually get up to the building and killed some of them...NDA came from behind...but thats a diff story.

the point is it doesnt matter if they are buffed/ the PPU is good and heals his clan mates...thats the point of a team/PPU...

you can always do the same. and BTW there is still skill involved in mass fights...just different tactics are needed to win. if you see an enemy trying to kill a teamate then gain up on him and kill him. then the odds tip more in your favor...just keep doing that. now of course the other team is going to try and do the same to you...so it makes it a challenge.

so im just gonna say this to sum up my post. PPU's are not overpowered. PPU shields are not over powered. PPU/APU combos are tough...but not over powered....since thats the whole point of it.

so please stop whining..

Lord Mansion
03-08-03, 02:17
Originally posted by Mumblyfish
Do I have to make sarcasm that blatently obvious?

Next time you really should add a full page sarcasm warning message.

Fawkes
03-08-03, 02:21
Pitspawn, of all the things I've said you decided to talk about parashock (forget damage boost)? I'm surprised. I thought people would not comment about that, but on the s/d and resist boosters time limit, because removing parashock spells, IMO, isn't that harsh as you say.

You say: "people will complain that the enemies they fight can avoid death and run away too easily". Honestly, that's just plain silly. It's not like every fight consists of a PPU. Do you hear people complaining about enemies not dying because they can run away? come on... can't people run away from a fight if they want to?
Same thing about people having insane AGL/ATL (althought I can't believe there's someone with insane AGL/ATL with all the specialization thing). Do you hear people complaining about these people?
Anyway, it's not like people with high AGL/ATL are hard to kill. Maybe you can't aim well.

Parashock spells RUIN this game. As I said, once I'm parashocked, my skills simply don't matter. It shouldn't be like that.
People should NOT rely so heavily on PPU's. Fight on your own. Stop trying to find the easiest way to win. How is this fun to you?

"There is quite a lot of skill buffing multitudes of people", etc. That's not the point, man. The point is that those buffs you're tossing at your friends make the fight unfair. Read my post again. If my idea isn't good enough (as you said, it takes most of the fun and skill from PPU's and you'd cancel your account), another idea should be found. There IS a problem, you can't deny that.

Promethius, you say quite the same thing, it's their job and these changes would take most of the fun and skill from PPU's. I agree with you, BUT THERE IS A PROBLEM. These buffs, parashocking and damage boosting, it all makes fights unfair and not fun.
Would you not like fighting against someone on your own, without any help from a PPU (same thing about your opponent, of course)? Would you not like mass fights without being damage boosted and parashocked, thus becoming helpless and get killed in no time (again, same about the other team)?
I really can't see how you people enjoy this.

Progenitor, make people rely even more on PPU monks?!?! *sigh* I give up...

Mumblyfish, your post was pointless. You obviously haven't read my post thoroughly.

Lastly, Rade, you've once told me you can't win a fight if you're not parashocked. You obviously want runspeed changed for your own favor, because you find it easier to aim when you're slow.

Pitspawn
03-08-03, 02:54
Well the fact that you want everything nerfed about a ppu, not even just one or two things boils me with rage. If you think its fair that they remove parashock, damage boost, group shields and make buffs castable on like one player only kk might as well delete the ppu monk. I know for a fact i wouldnt play such a fucked up class. When people are crying for all these nerfs about ppus do they even look at what ppus have for pros/cons?

Indrid Cold
03-08-03, 03:10
People have nothing to suggest nerfing to (because hybrids are basically gone), to the pick PPUs.

Everyone who wants to nerf PPUs can go F*ck themselves. There'd be no more tough dungeon runs, and no more MC5 (like you can really go there now).

I suggest people be content for once.

(EDIT)

I am really sick and tired of fifteen-hojillion threads about the 'unkillable terrors known as ppus'. I specialize in not dying and keeping people alive. You're all ungratefull bastards.

Fawkes
03-08-03, 03:42
Okay, well, Pitspawn, I'd be happy with just damage boost and parashock removed. Or even just parashock. Surely PPU's (or other classes) can live with that.

Indrid Cold, you (and other before you) are missing the whole point! I'm not talking about PPU's being overpowered because they can't be killed ("I specialize in not dying"). And you're job is maybe keeping people alive, but think of the other side, this ruins the whole point in fighting - to rely on your OWN skills.

EDIT: I'm really tried, off to sleep D:

shalille
03-08-03, 03:54
Originally posted by Indrid Cold
I specialize in not dying and keeping people alive. You're all ungratefull bastards.


Lol :) sad but true...

ino
03-08-03, 04:06
hehe Hope this inserts to the right damn place this time....

There isn't anytihing holding back a players individual pvp skills when with a ppu..

Say for ex, 2 ppu monks and 2 apu monks. or 2 tanks. meets up with a group of enemies ranging from 10 - 15 ppl. The other group has their own apu monks and their own ppu's.. Tanks, pe's and so on. Lets say theese 4 players manages to kill the whole bunch. Would you say that thas is just because they had ppus?..

No it could be.

1. The team of 15 could be very bad at pvp..

2. A job well done by the ppu and the apus or tank's pvp skills.

Its not like you can rush in there and just start to blast away. You need tactics, and you need to listen to wtf the ppu's tells you to do and then act on your own. Dodging keeping the distance check from time to time if your own ppu is backing away a bit then you should keep that in mind.

I dont think the shelters need's to get more nerfed than they allready has. I play ppu and I really enjoy to be able to make a differance.

If you should have a complete wuss playing with you vs thoose 15 ppl or whatever you wont be able to win. Maby the other group cant kill me as ppu. But my efforts to try and ress the dead one is kinda futile cause it will take the group about 1 sec to kill the newspawned guy with me.

As for Op battles thoose are kina messy cause at times there might be alot of ppl.. And the mass ammount of enemies will probably have a ppu with them.. So you will need to have some skilled players along as well as a skilled ppu to be able to win even an 10 vs 10 fight.

If a team wins a 10 vs 10 fight easy then the other side probably had a bad day or just isnt all that good at what they are supposed to do. It could also mean they didnt have a ppu with them, and if no ppu its hard job but could be done, if not you could give them a hellovafight atleast.

If a skilled pvper with a ppu meets an skilled pvp player without a ppu the one with the ppu should and will always win that battle, end of story.

I could not be quiet any more :) I have read theese forums since late beta 4 when I started to play, just felt I had to say something this time.


/lain

Indrid Cold
03-08-03, 04:07
Originally posted by Fawkes
Indrid Cold, you (and other before you) are missing the whole point! I'm not talking about PPU's being overpowered because they can't be killed ("I specialize in not dying"). And you're job is maybe keeping people alive, but think of the other side, this ruins the whole point in fighting - to rely on your OWN skills.

Psst. Hey. Over here. Got a special message for you. Massivly MULTIPLAYER online roleplaying game.

What is the fun if you gotta rely on yourself all the time? Go play a single player game. Team vs team battle is where it's at. And whatever team is most ballanced of the classes will win if they have a good strategiest (sp?) You can't take ops with tanks and monks, you can't kill much with spies and PPUs. And any battle without a PPU on your side is going to end in seconds, instead of the possible hour of battle that a PPU gives to you with healing and buffs.

IMO Being PPU takes THE MOST SKILL to play. You have to ballance all the buff timers and shield timers in your head, while you yourself are under constant fire. Not to mention all the spell swapping and inability to runcast 95% of the spells. Then to add insult to injury you have to tab into your inventory every thrity seconds to take PSI boosters. PPUs have to invest the most money (spells and such), and the most game time to cap. Not to mention the hundreds of builds for good spells since ours are the highest TLS aside from rares.

For all the suffering, I get to be a very valuable addition to any team, the target to the opposing team, and almost invincible.

You wanna nerf me? See my first post about doing something to yourself.

Xian
03-08-03, 04:42
I read your post, and thought the length would constitute to you bringing some good, possibly fresh ideas to the table about PPU monks. However, I was wrong.

You say in part of your post that some people will think 'why not just remove PPUs altogether' if your ideas were followed. Why shouldn't someone think that? You want PPUs to be completely unable to cast deflectors/shelters/boosters on more than one person at a time, until said boosts run out? What in the world is a PPU then? It's hardly a support class, since someone is only able to 'support' one person at a time.

As for parashock and damage boost, I for one don't mind damage boost that much it's just parashock that really gets on my nerves.

In my eyes there are two sides to the parashock argument, and I partially agree on both. Parashock in itself is an aggressive spell, not necessarily directly (since it does take a PPU quite a while to kill someone with it), but it allows anyone with the PPU to bear down on the target and kill it easily. This isn't just due to the runspeed of the target, its also the lack of any turning speed that prevents them from defending themselves. For that reason I would like to see parashock removed.

On the other hand, there is also the fact that a PPU has absolutely zero way of defending him/herself; which if they are caught in a situation where they can't just sit there out-healing/shielding everything they have little means of retaliation or escape, since the enemy can just constantly chase them down. In that sense, I feel that a PPU should have something that allows them to get away from those attacking them, e.g parashock.

Damage boost fits the support role pretty well in my opinion, since a PPU isn't directly attacking someone but is supporting his teammates. I know that sounds the same as the direct and indirect idea of parashock I said earlier, but at least when someone is damage boosted they can defend themselves and most importantly run away.

As for shields, 120 seconds is bugger-all time in battle and it takes one hell of a PPU to keep everyone at 'godlike' status. I for one would actually like to see the shelter/deflector time increased, even if it's only for self-casting since a PPU has a lot of work on his/her hands keeping everyone buffed, healed, sheltered, etc.

I think it was Pitspawn who previously mentioned making Holy Paralysis cost an awful lot more mana than it does now to prevent it being 'spammed' and allowing the drugs to play some kind of part in counter-acting it, letting someone escape (like damage boost).

Ryuben
03-08-03, 04:47
fgs what a care bear

oohhhhh make it fair


ohhhhh thats not right booo hoooo poor me all alone not being able to do diddle squat.



ok lets see

A) PPU's job = keeping other alive + increasing damamge u want to nerf the keeping people alive bit, weel wtf does a ppu do then ? thought of that cos how the fuck does he lvl with a team if he can only cast ONE shield at a time o_O dumb ass mark 1

B) u say PvP skills are pointless when there are a another char + a ppu monk, hmmmm if u came across 2 other people teamed and kicked there arses (same ranks) then i would be amazed, think of the damage a 2nd person would do to you THEN think about the shields and extra damage first person has done to you hmmmm dumb ass strike 2

C) you say people shouldn't rely on a PPU monk,they should rely on there own skills and set-up. so basically u want a single player game against people that fight you but don't help you....as if ur a tank and recive a shelther from a pe does that mean u rely on the pe too much and he should be nerfed, ffs go play a single player and pack ur bags from this MULTI-PLAYER game. as if its unfair when u get buffed and don't die is it also unfair if u have a team m8, as u leech his XP and NC and omg kill the mob in half the time and there for it does less damage! dumb ass strike 3


Seriously stfu and go back to playing the single player games.

Carinth
03-08-03, 04:56
--- Wire Tap Recording of Agent Tank4Life's Home Phone

Tank: Hello?
Unkown: It's me.
Tank: Ah, how are the preperations going?
Unkown: Excellent, we're way ahead of schedule. These people are as easy to manipulate as sheep!
Tank: Don't get to cocky, if we move to fast they might catch on to what we're doing. We can not afford to let that happen. Clear?
Unkown: Of course Tank, there is no need to worry. I barely had to do anything to get everyone to turn against the Hybrids. It was quite brilliant, if I do say so myself, to even get some famous pure monks to join in the arguments against Hybrids.
Tank: Yes you did quite well, what are you working on now?
Unkown: Ah the PPU's are my current Target. They won't be very difficult either. Have you seen what they're capable of? Running around with an entire army chasing them. Laughing at 3 people shooting them point blank range. It won't take much at all to get them nerfed. I've already infiltrated the APU's and am encouraging them to help me in the "balancing" of their PPU brothers. They are very recepetive, some even going beyond what I hoped for!
Tank: That sounds too good to be true, maybe we should hold off on the next stage? It will acomplish one of our primary goals, which is no small feat.
Unkown: You worry to much! Once the PPU's are back to being subserviant support characters, mindlessly following others around, the APU's will have no chance against us. The momentum will be such that they can do nothing! They will fizzle their spells in fustration while we reduce them to moderate additional damage in a team. They will nolonger be needed to take out ppu's, we reduce their damage, and viola! Apu's will be done for. You are right though, we should tread carefuly. This will mean the total extermination of Monks as a power. They are the major obstruction in our plans for a return to how things should be.
Tank: Yes, with Monks out of the picture we will once again reign supreme. We can slap the silly spies around and get them back in Medicare making our weapons. We'll keep the PE's around as targeting practice. It has been far to long since I saw an army of smurfs!
Unkown: Speaking of spies, did you notice how I managed to get them to hijack most all the Monk threads with mention of their silly spy PA? It was quite a lot of work, but I think it payed off. The spies are very good at directing the Monk's focus away from the important issues. They end up back in the age old arguments about petty little things. So the Monk's miss what is is happening against them! It's quite beautiful.
Tank: Very Nice, I did notice that but I wasn't sure if it was your handywork. Anyway, I have to go get my PA polished, it's stained with the blood from some noob Monk I took out earlier. I will contact you in a week. Viva Tankocron!
Unkown: Viva Tankocron!

-- End Transmision

Trip
03-08-03, 04:58
k lets go easy on the dewd...he's loosing on his own poll...on second thoughts lets not.
From my earlier post i made a metaphor. If a tank was a humvee then the PPU behind it would be the TOW (basically kickass on its own but hauls ass with a PPU)
I'm all for that hell yeh! But what your putting it is
A tank is a Humvee. The PPU is that fabric lining on the dashboard which wont do jack if you smack a wall and crack your head open on the windshield....also make that fabric flammable. Not only are you making it that PPUs.
The shelter/deflector idea........what are you smoking!?!?!!!! 1 PPU per teammate!?!?!!!!!!!!! that would mean for every runner, there must be a PPU to back it up so pretty much half the server would be PPUs to get the current effect.


Now some of you may say: "Pfft, all these nerfs he's talking about... might as well suggest removing PPU monks completely".
ok i will say the first. Pfft, all these nerfs he's talking about... might as well suggest removing PPU monks completely


But, in my oppinion, all these shields and resist boosters should be luxury.
wwww8... 1 second... RECYCLING is a luxury. PPU is a class! like RC/PC/HC/APU/pure borked tradeskill


In any normal MultiPlayer-FPS game, shields and other bonuses are well hidden and, once taken, will only respawn after a certain amount of time

ok...games which do that...off the top of my head, JK2, Quake...UTseries....maybe T2 but ....nah you actually need an inv station for that...lets see....tbh there isn't too many.


(and don't give me that: "Oh, this isn't Quake " rubbish, because, yeah, of course this isn't a normal MP-FPS game like Quake, or Unreal Tournament or any other (MP-FPS)

This isn't quake! This isn't a normal MP-FPS game like Quake, or Unreal Tournament or any other (MP-FPS) [/quote]


game, but you know damn well that this game's gameplay is based on these very same games that I mentioned, and what I am talking about here is gameplay - the same basic gameplay that we have in Neocron and in Quake). [/quake]

erm...hell no! NC...MMOG....skill, Stat system. People work for their ability to fight.
Quake....run, pickup gun, shoot people, die, rinse and repeat as soon as you hit respawn.
neocron....run (which you have to earn to fight high up PvP)....get other people to help you (your probably gonna get ganked and these people earnt their way to fight too)...Get PPU buffs (Because they earnt their way to protect people.)...Go to OP (which people fought to get)...Fight....get healed....die....get ressed...die.....back in appartment.....get pokes (by people who earnt the ability to poke) remove synap.....get new gun (built by people who earnt the right to build and research it)......GR....fight again.....win.....hack OP (because believe it or not the hackers earnt their way to be able to hack that OP) win OP. rinse and repeat.

ok note the community based teamwork. If you want the 1st option then i dont know why you put up here...seems so much more hassle to do it MMOG style

ok...PPUs.....these bastards need the most amount of skill...not only is it point and pull trigger. Its point see if they need buffs and then buff em. You have limited mana so PSI boosters in there. They also have to run around and get everyone to get buffed....

[quote]but think of the other side, this ruins the whole point in fighting - to rely on your OWN skills.

o_O....get your own PPU? Its like saying i'm fighting with armor against a guy without....who's fault is it...mine?!! wtf!!!!


I'd be happy with just damage boost and parashock removed. Or even just parashock. Surely PPU's (or other classes) can live with that

erm....i'm a spy and no i wont be happy with that....not only are you negating that the above HELPS us kill PPUs but also that those are a PPUs extreme survival cards! your ganked as a PPU,,,you can do sh*t all! what you can do is live and you buff up. para...run away...NEITHER SIDE LOOSES!

the game is team based. PPUs work best as a team. other than that they're crap as a solo. I say that KK have made ubah good decision bout this. PPUs get most rewards out of teamwork because they get a phat 0 without.


people will complain that the enemies they fight can avoid death and run away too easily". Honestly, that's just plain silly

actually it isn't! not only that it will come about but its already here! except in a different form. lets see.
"people ARE complaining that the enemies they fight can avoid death and buff up too easily"
note the similarites? your complaing that a PPU can survive a gun fight!


Parashock spells RUIN this game noticed the nerf since the last time? now the only real viable parashock is that of a rare....c'mon....its like building a rare to find out it does f*ck all...its not ruining at all....its just saying that there are rewards for hunting all those damned TPs


"There is quite a lot of skill buffing multitudes of people", etc. That's not the point, man. The point is that those buffs you're tossing at your friends make the fight unfair.
look,,, man. The point is that one side has a trump card and another doesn't. dont like it? get one yourself. And before you say that its not the point. IT IS. we go out of our way to get a PPU, you get your own. And also before you say its bleedin impossible, then note that the side with the ppu HAS the ppu it aint impossible. you just gotta know who to call. Btw...making a fight unfair...thats the point...To make a fight TRULY fair you might as well just play rock scissors paper over an OP or flip a coin...making a fight unfair is why people play this game so hard. They want to outdamage the opponent/they want to take more shots than the opponent/they want to have a better strategy than the opponent/they want to outnumber the opponent. i mean c'mon. f*ckin hell why do you want to stop at a fair fight....the words carebear are dying to come out but i'll hold it for later.


If my idea isn't good enough (as you said, it takes most of the fun and skill from PPU's and you'd cancel your account), another idea should be found. There IS a problem, you can't deny that.

first off you should be stoned for those ideas :D it isn't good enough at all. Another idea instead of NERF THE F*CKING MONK TO HELL AND BACK would be to boost the rest so they're just as important...not only has this idea been made by some of the smartest players in NC but not many have actually flamed it as much as nerf the monks.


These buffs, parashocking and damage boosting, it all makes fights unfair and not fun
its only unfair in your eyes because you dont have your own jawa. in the oppositions eyes its probably fun coz not only have you gotten 0wned but instead of sorting it out in game by getting a counter force you come here and start a nerf thread.


Would you not like fighting against someone on your own, without any help from a PPU (same thing about your opponent, of course)?

Pluto server. Fight Night. Every friday evening. contact Kramertheweird on details. Venue changes all the time.


Would you not like mass fights without being damage boosted and parashocked, thus becoming helpless and get killed in no time (again, same about the other team)? actually i like longer fights...the best fights are the longer ones. E.g. Soliko fighting and Gravis last week. Mass fighting with everything you just said....find a 64 player server of quake and your in heaven.


If a skilled pvper with a ppu meets an skilled pvp player without a ppu the one with the ppu should and will always win that battle, end of story.

well...yeah...multiply that by 10 and you have your same effect except a mass fight.


Mumblyfish, your post was pointless. You obviously haven't read my post thoroughly

awesome post mumbly....love the smallscript. genious

tbh this has to be one of the most pathetic attempts to nerf a PPU ever! no personal offence ever but that entire suggestion was just wank!

p.s. this is a pretty big flame if a GM sees it that way but it does have some points imo

Cyphor
03-08-03, 05:05
Originally posted by Fawkes

Shelter / Deflector: The Shelter and Deflector spells, the shields, last no more than 120 seconds. Therefore, a PPU monk should be able to cast them on others no more than once per 120 seconds. This will prevent PPU monks from buffing all of their teammates, because once they had buffed one runner, they will not be able to cast buffs on another one (but themselves) for 120 seconds. By the time those 120 seconds had past, casting shields on another runner would be pointless, because the previous runner would lose his buffs.
Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about self buffs. I have no problem with PPU monks buffing themselves and there should be no time limit for that.
This change would also force the fighting team to choose a leader, a striker to go first ahead, who will be the only buffed runner in the team.

Resist Boosters: Same deal. These spells last for 600 seconds, and should not be cast again until 600 seconds have past. Again, I have no problem with PPU monks buffing themselves with any spell, so there should be no time limit on self buffs
ROFL :rolleyes: what a great idea then large battles consist of pawns and four main characters who will always be the last 4 standing unless there is an act of god , what a good idea O_o


Originally posted by Fawkes
In any normal MultiPlayer-FPS game, shields and other bonuses are well hidden and, once taken, will only respawn after a certain amount of time (and don't give me that: "Oh, this isn't Quake :rolleyes:" rubbish, because, yeah, of course this isn't a normal MP-FPS game like Quake, or Unreal Tournament or any other (MP-FPS) game, but you know damn well that this game's gameplay is based on these very same games that I mentioned, and what I am talking about here is gameplay - the same basic gameplay that we have in Neocron and in Quake).

THIS IS A MMORPG < RPG not a FPS, the combat system is real time FPS style that is it! In a RPG you have to deal with things you dont have to in fps and a healing class is one of them. In this game it is the ppu, and as the ppu is given little or no offensive power he is given great defences and the purpose of spreading his defense, he is ment to have an effect in combat! That is all he can do.

We have already had a nerf on shields so we aren't as useful in combat, why can't people get used to the features of this game rather than crying nerf 8|

Edit: Rofl just read craniths post, i think he's on to something :)

Ryuben
03-08-03, 05:16
u know what he wants to make it fair i say theres one class u only lvl dex once and u run about with nail guns


thats fair


Onozs!!
what happenes if some one gets a 5 slot nail gun then thats not fair too :( oh......ok every one starts with maxed stats (of 1 dex) and the nail gun, can't make one, can't do any thing to it there we go problem sorted :) fair fights. (also unlimited ammo)
...
oh and also,

[ edited for violation of the forum rules - flaming ]



(now thats a flame trip :D )

japata
03-08-03, 07:41
What is this bullshit about fair battles. This is warfare! War isn't supposed to be fair. Every reasonable tactician only attacks when the odds are on his side OR he has nothing to lose. It's only your problem if you don't have enough ppu-monks on your side. Go make some allies, persuade someone to lom to ppu, get some *gasp* NEW friends and STOP WHINING! What about exping if you include those nerfs. My my, only one damage boost on ONE monster in 600 secs... wait that's 10 mins. So maximum of 2 damageboosts per cave run. o.O

Fawkes
03-08-03, 12:16
eep, so many flames, so many! I give up. I was wrong. Kill me, please. :X


I still would like to see parashock removed though D:

btw, Ryuben, I'd accept any insult, but... but carebear?!? wtf, what does that have to do with what I was saying? D:

Syntax-Error
03-08-03, 12:29
I think i may have missed the point. is he not saying that a team with a PPU would always win against a team without one?

but hold the fuck on.... isnt that supposed to be like that?


I mean HELLO


this is an RPG, based on other RPGs no matter how you look at it. now think (in old style D&d type) a group of Fighters spots another group equal in number to them. so they attack, now there all fairly even untill there cleric(GOD i HOPE thats the right class, its been a while :/) turns up, who do you think would win?

And you say anyone with a PPU would win. i sat there a PPU and watch a tank friend of mine charge down and kill a APU who was backed up by a PPU. he then chased the PPU and killed him too. and all this without me casting a damn thing. i was the only PPU in the area (Friendly to him).

Lareolan
03-08-03, 14:34
Read your post, not the replies to it yet, but I can tell you now I disagree with 99.9% of what you say there. I agree there is a problem when a PPU teams up with someone and I still think that PPUs should be more like Clerics (in D&D) and APUs should be more like mages, both able to take care of themselves both defencively and offencively though in different ways. But since it's not likely that KK will completely and totally obliterate their storyline and change monks completely, the PPUs are here to stay. Not to mention that PPUs got a major nerf with the fact that their buffs are now only 50% effectiveness when used on other runners making their job at a large OP fight even more excruciatingly painful.

So, no. All your ideas are horrible, they are in no way a fix to the problem, as short of total game redesign I don't think there is a fix.

Lareolan
03-08-03, 14:40
Originally posted by Rade
I want runspeed reduced heavily across the board, people are running around like this is quake or something. Reduce it to the standards of todays fps games like CS or planetside, I think itd be hellalot more fun.

I disagree with that on account of the fact that CS has much smaller maps than Neocron. Try to get from NC to MB on foot while running like you would in real life. Would take you a good 10 hours real time, and that is only if you don't get killed by a mob on the way since you're not fast enough to outrun them :)
(Don't know how Planetside is, never tried that piece of *BLEEP*)

Rade
03-08-03, 14:46
Use vehicles, thats what they're for. The fact that reduced runspeed would make vehicles more in demand would just be another benefit to this fix.


And if youve never played planetside how can you claim its a PoS? Its actually a very good game, Neocron would be a much better place if they stole a few things from planetside. Like the engine for example :P

Lareolan
03-08-03, 15:04
Originally posted by Carinth
--- Wire Tap Recording of Agent Tank4Life's Home Phone

*SNIP*

-- End Transmision

LOL! Carinth you rule! I'm pretty certain that the person who created this thread is on of the no-skill cookie cutter setup tanks that think the CS is a melee weapon and that going up to a mob such as a Chaos Leutenant, obstructing everyone else's shots and shooting it full of CS bursts until death (of the tank ofcourse) is the only way to play. (The so called individual skills).
Grr... When I see these I don't even bother with the resurrection spell, I just leave them dead where they were. If they don't know how to take cover or retreat, or to function in a team, they shouldn't be in a team. :)

Lareolan
03-08-03, 15:10
Originally posted by Rade
Use vehicles, thats what they're for. The fact that reduced runspeed would make vehicles more in demand would just be another benefit to this fix.


And if youve never played planetside how can you claim its a PoS? Its actually a very good game, Neocron would be a much better place if they stole a few things from planetside. Like the engine for example :P

And not everyone can afford a vehicle or afford to spend skillpoint on vehicles when they are a newbie. So once you get to /20 when you really should go level on tougher mobs there really isn't much of a choice but to go to MB since no one usually hunts these mobs in NC (even though they do exist there as well).
Leveling in a team is much better, safer and faster than doing it alone. I do not pay $10/mo. to play a single player game of hunting mobs to level without any help or benefit from other players.

Don't know about the engine, that may be good. But from reading a lot of reviews and talking to some of my friends who did try it, I came to a conclusion that it is a PoS game. Like it's fun for all of a week maybe, then it just gets boring and repetitive, no story, no plot. Nothing really to warran a monthly payment when games like Half Life and it's mods/Quake3 and all it's mods/Return to Castle Wolfenstein/Unreal Tournament etc... are all free to play and cost a lot less to purchase too.

Cad
03-08-03, 15:15
Nerf PPUs? Again? These posts are as common as fatal runtime errors.

deac
03-08-03, 15:41
sorry fawkes but no....

you would kill of the class

ps. hes a pistol pe.

Rade
03-08-03, 16:00
Originally posted by Lareolan
And not everyone can afford a vehicle or afford to spend skillpoint on vehicles when they are a newbie. So once you get to /20 when you really should go level on tougher mobs there really isn't much of a choice but to go to MB since no one usually hunts these mobs in NC (even though they do exist there as well).
Leveling in a team is much better, safer and faster than doing it alone. I do not pay $10/mo. to play a single player game of hunting mobs to level without any help or benefit from other players.

Don't know about the engine, that may be good. But from reading a lot of reviews and talking to some of my friends who did try it, I came to a conclusion that it is a PoS game. Like it's fun for all of a week maybe, then it just gets boring and repetitive, no story, no plot. Nothing really to warran a monthly payment when games like Half Life and it's mods/Quake3 and all it's mods/Return to Castle Wolfenstein/Unreal Tournament etc... are all free to play and cost a lot less to purchase too.


A speedbike or whatever they are called are cheap and you need less than 20 vehicle use to drive em. Everyone can spare 20 dex points, and a noob can afford it after some aggie missions.


I stopped playing planetside because its shallow, however besides that the game is completely brilliant - if you would make a merge of neocron and planetside you would have the best mmorpg ever.

Lareolan
03-08-03, 16:11
Originally posted by Rade
A speedbike or whatever they are called are cheap and you need less than 20 vehicle use to drive em. Everyone can spare 20 dex points, and a noob can afford it after some aggie missions.


Well, actually 20 points of dex is a LOT to all but a spy. (I just started a new monk, and I'd rather have those 20 points in AGL thank you very much.)

As for Wheeler Speedbikes being cheap.... 85k is not very cheap and doesn't take "a few" missions. Also the same noob (like my new monk) is far better off spending that money on something critical, like a new spell built, or new armor or collecting the money to have the next spell built.

It's not a simple matter as you make it sound like. Vehicles even though more reliable are still not for everyone since very few people can afford even those 20 points of dex without sacrificing their viability in combat (hurray for overspecialization. Yet another thing I don't really like about this game compared to other MMORPGs)

Rade
03-08-03, 16:17
I started a apu on a new server a while back, when I was rank 15-20ish i had enough money to buy a wheeler and having some recycle and vehicle use didnt gimp me one bit. As a PE I have had enough vehicle use to use a hovertech forever, I just recently lomed it because of the nerfed vehicle speeds, but if they increase it more ill get it back. having 5 less P-C have never caused my char to die instantly whenever I happen to get into some pvp.

thewarrior008
03-08-03, 17:45
fawkes dude u know me man and im teling u that since the hydrid nerf we have many ppus and apus and it would be shit if wat u say would get introduced cuz i delete my ppu and makea PE then cuz tat is just unrealistic and bad wat u say, now tell me u didnot mention in ur post that u played a ppu before?
as pitspawn said it involes ALOT of skill to makea ppu job and every clan who fights vs each other MUSt have ppus if it does not then its all n00bs . u should start and play a ppu and see urself.
not all ppus are good i know of not many who are good enuf to keep many ppl alive ( not me,no) , so u see ppu is a very diferenmt style of play ,a medic and it requires skillx0r.

Xian
03-08-03, 18:13
Originally posted by Fawkes
I still would like to see parashock removed though

This is what really gets on my nerves. At least provide some reasoning or argument as to why you want it removed. In some ways I agree with you, but I would at least give reasons and explanations as to why I want it removed. Not just "omg teh parash0kz ov3rpowrd, rmve it plz kk!1oen1"

Fawkes
03-08-03, 18:28
Xian, FFS, have you even read my first post? this really pisses me off, you people calling me a carebear, 1337 speaker, cookie cutter tank (?!) and other stuff (I'm a pistol PE, fyi).
I have said in my first post why I want parashock removed. READ IT.

thewarrior, I agree with you that it takes skills to play a PPU monk (I've played my friend's PPU for a couple of times, so I'm not just saying), but I'm not talking about PPU monks, I'm talking about the people who get their buffs! can you guys get this to your head?

Please, don't flame me anymore than you already did, any of you. I've really had enough, and I don't care anymore! stay as you are now, I don't care! you win!

shalille
03-08-03, 18:52
Originally posted by Fawkes

I have said in my first post why I want parashock removed. .

Originally posted by Fawkes

but I'm not talking about PPU monks, I'm talking about the people who get their buffs! .

I fail to see how you reconcile these two statements in the same post , unless you mean PPU monks somehow buffing ppl with parashock?

rob444
03-08-03, 19:01
If you shouldnt be able to cast shield on more than one then just use group shields and all is buffed anyway. And the thing about damage boost and parashock, that's BS. It shouldnt be nerfed since it's also the only weapon a PPU has (except that crappy low level spell & SC) but who wants to use the low level parashock on an enemy if it doesnt work and who wants to cast a sc when a capped tank is running after you? All bad ideas and take a look at the poll :lol:

Good try though, why dont you try to create your own PPU monk and see if you want to remove the parashock/damaboosts or not..

Xian
03-08-03, 19:07
Fawkes, FFS, I did read your post all the way through. Did you read mine? I clearly stated that I read your post all the way through. I know you're a pistol PE, I've been shot in the back by you many times.

Your reason for parashock being removed :


Damage Boost: REMOVE or make it work on mobs only. Once you are damage-boosted, it automatically makes the fight unfair. Again, why would I work so hard on my character setup and tweak it so many times just to be gimped in a fight by a PPU monk?

Shock Spells: see Damage Boost.

Did you see my reasons for wanting parashock removed but thinking it should still be in the game for other reasons? A PPU has absolutely NO way of retaliating against an attack and escaping. True, they shouldn't necessarily be able to attack since they are pure passive, but they shouldn't have no means of escape either. Like I said, removing all parashocks except for beam and HP (making beam less effective entirely, just my opinion though) and making them cost shitloads more mana would solve the problem in my eyes.

That would mean a PPU would have to pick the targets he/she thinks could be the biggest threat and then escape, plus he/she couldn't effectively use it as an attack against anyone by spamming it. Then again I think a better idea is having a sort of parashock shield, which shocks anyone who does x amount of damage to the PPU.

Fawkes, you posted the argument, you have to be prepared for the people who flame and the arguments against it.

Fawkes
03-08-03, 19:08
You're right, shalille, shouldn't have done that. Yes, then. I want PPU's nerfed when it comes to parashock spells.

Mods, please, close this thread (better yet, delete it).

Promethius
03-08-03, 22:51
Why delete it fawkes. You started a thread and we have posted our OPINIONS and you want it deleted cuz you don't like wat we have to say? Thats a bit childish.

Mumblyfish
03-08-03, 22:58
I'm going to go with "Childish" for $1000.

You started a stupid thread. People say they don't like your idea. Live with it.

Fawkes
03-08-03, 23:08
I don't want my thread shown anymore. It's annoying reading your posts (all saying same things, some flaming me). How is that childish? it's just natural any grown-up would be annoyed by it. Give me a break.

Kendo Averly
04-08-03, 00:24
Battling against a person with a PPU is like battling against someone with a stronger weapon.

Make friends with a PPU and get him to hang around with you.

Not everyone has a PPU shadowing them.

You have to be careful how you tread with this, you'll either end up making them pointless, or worthwhile to no-one but themselves, and on that level, no point in them being there for themselves.

An extreme could result in a player that'd only be good as an 'uber carebear' LE runner, who could protect himself against all mobs, go everywhere, and be useless to helping anyone else.

:)

Nidhogg
04-08-03, 00:49
Closed at thread starter's request.

N