Nerf Poison? (clam down, I have reasons)

[VetteroX]

ok, first I was thinking, well no, dont nerf it, its just like any other damage now, just nobody has resists to it. So, i fought some poison monks and win, but some, its impossible. I use med poison belt, hazard 1 (+ 20 poison) a poison drug, and it still hurts like hell... when a rare energy beam does like 20 damage to me. So, if not weaken it, someone tell me, what is fair, when a pe cast hazard 1, med poison belt, and a drug, what more can he do to survive? Im not saying I must win vs everything but, whats the answer to poison when all that resistance seem to have no improvemnet ( I noticed no change in damage resistance) over my preveous -15? Anyone have a reasonable responce instead of "stfu leave monks alone" or "yeah destroy monks tanks must own all!!"

[Glok]

Dude you are the primo PE. Don't whine, get some POR. Oh yeah, I haven't fought a poison monk yet, but judging by the mobs there is no problem.

[KramerTheWeird]

The only problem I have with poison is the fact that no other classes are capable of using it. Yes, there is NCPD War-Gas Flamers but they still aren't as powerful as most heavy weapons.

I would love to see melee weapons with poison damage, for example.

[Inconsiderable.]

Glok: Not only the High Society should be able to read, also you should be able to do this!


when a pe cast hazard 1, med poison belt, and a drug, what more can he do to survive? Im not saying I must win vs everything but, whats the answer to poison when all that resistance seem to have no improvemnet ( I noticed no change in damage resistance) over my preveous -15?

As you can see, he skilled POR, but there is no difference.


Don't whine, get some POR

Now this sounds stupid, dude?


Beside that, Resist are 200% bugged. Psi Resist doesnt work at all. The other Resist... well... I dont see any difference between Medium Energy Belt + 50 Energy Resist Skill if I get shot by a CS or no belt and no energy res skill. With firedamage i got my health going down and then jumping up again few seconds after.
Huh?

[Glok]

Considering that I went to the grave and wasted snakes for a few hours a few days ago (after the patch) I think you don't know WTF you are talking about. Maybe go ingame and see?

[KramerTheWeird]

all resists are negated through the insane stacking a monk can gain on you

solution? do your damdest to prevent them from targetting you.. hehe

[ZigZag]

What Vet is saying is what eveyone ingame is seeing who PvPs - even WITH over 90 (in my case) poison resist, if a monk stacks over 6 or so poison beams on u (and he can stack 12 ive seen) u r dead.

[t0tt3]

Originally posted by KramerTheWeird

I would love to see melee weapons with poison damage, for example.

Yea KramerTheWeird that would be awsome and I still ant to see more mods :( where are the laserblade mods and why cant there be more mods the it is today?

I mean melee got 2 mods both do the same and the PSI only one plz change that :(

[Arcadi Czar]

A general broadening of all the weapon groups and more accessability to ALL Ammo types in some shape or form would break the cookie cutter mentality and also mean no 1 setup would make you safe from everything.....Poison does need to be looked at i guess what with all the resists being slightly buggy but in the end if we can get to the stage that in PvP people take along a few Tanks in varying resist setups to counter any possible variation in an attackers complement of attacks then its all good. Then a sort of stone-paper-scissors effect would sink in and you could team up with mates who have different resist setups and that bastard who has the ideal setup for taking you out would in turn be taken out by your mate who has the ideal setup to take him out....

All in all bring on more Ammo mods, more Ammo types, and make RARE Ammo Mods with combined damage types just to downgrade the few pre-Rare-nerf rares :lol:

[Drusus]

Originally posted by Arcadi Czar
A general broadening of all the weapon groups and more accessability to ALL Ammo types in some shape or form would break the cookie cutter mentality and also mean no 1 setup would make you safe from everything.....Poison does need to be looked at i guess what with all the resists being slightly buggy but in the end if we can get to the stage that in PvP people take along a few Tanks in varying resist setups to counter any possible variation in an attackers complement of attacks then its all good. Then a sort of stone-paper-scissors effect would sink in and you could team up with mates who have different resist setups and that bastard who has the ideal setup for taking you out would in turn be taken out by your mate who has the ideal setup to take him out....

All in all bring on more Ammo mods, more Ammo types, and make RARE Ammo Mods with combined damage types just to downgrade the few pre-Rare-nerf rares :lol:

The difference in poison is that it is NOT front end loaded as all otehr damage types are.

People keep saying they are taking more damage from poison than other attacks. I doubt this is accurate. The difference is that a few whacks of poison, initially is not that dangerous, but as with all DoT's that damage is committed to you and you are _going_ to take it. No one is shocked when they die to 3 hits of a CS and yet are in awe that three poison stacks of comparable TL are so vicious... now, doublt that to 6.... or more to 9? <shudder>

Also, resists may affect the initial valued hit rather than the 'ticks' which would explain the perceived buggyness (and that should be looked at if so).

The only true solution is for folks to start dodging and using cover more for now, something we should be doing anyway. Even I admit being to dependent at times on the 'kneel, aim shoot' punch for punch mentality. If you go punch for Punch with poison, you may take your opponent out, but the last life will likely be theirs.

Drusus

[bibliotequa]

You know, it really doesnt matter if they nerf it or not, cause against a tank its useless, it used to be a monk's only true attack left anymore, cause tanks have these perfect setups where even with pure apu its still at 60-80 dmg, with both rares, now that kk screwed up our RoF, screwed up psi boosters so that we cant cast after about 15 casts, we cant win in 1v1, its impossible, we have to start off at about 150 meters away, and start sniping them, once they get near us, theyve taken about 5 shots, and still have over a quarter health left, then at that distance, their melee wep reaches us, or they can properly aim with a cs, and then its 2 hits/bursts and we are dead, but nooooo monks are perfectly balanced, *coughs* BULLSHIT. The reason why poison is useless is cause if we were to stack it in that scenario where a monk might be lucky enough to win (the 150m snipe then close range thing) the poison will stack to hell, sure, but youre dead too, cause it takes like 10 seconds till the first tick, so w/e kk doesnt want monks in the game, they want tanks, they should just put it in the next patch "all classes have been deleted except for tanks, if you had a current char of another class, it has been turned into a tank, for example a spy with 30 str, 35 con, 18 psi, 100 dex, 100 int, will be a tank with 9 psi, 100 con, 100 str, 15 int, and 60 dex" (ok so i didnt properly work out the dex, but its an example of what they should do, cause all other classes are unplayable) let them stop chasing the hybrids, let them play w/e damn way they want, they were damn right to be hybrid, it was the only way to win in pvp, cause you actually survived more than 2 bursts/shots, from any gun.

[Doc Lao]

The only problem I have with poison is the fact that no other classes are capable of using it. Yes, there is NCPD War-Gas Flamers but they still aren't as powerful as most heavy weapons.

Well so monks can do poison... Well sorry other classes can't. After all monks can't do pierce, force, x-ray...

Personnally I have the same problem with PA, only tanks can use it unfair. Oh, and maxed tech riffles...

Try to have a broader approach before always bitching about monks.

[MacenzieWolf]

Still no other class can stack their damage to insane levels, oh yeah and hit their target if he goes into cover like psi's can! :lol:

[Doc Lao]

Oh please not that again. This is becoming a whine whine whine YOU can do that and I can't, my class should do it all. How come YOU and I don't.... feel blank here.

Please why don't you use your advantages instead of drooling on the ones other classes have. The grass is always greener on the other side (unless your a spy ;)).

[TavrosAresK]

I'll give you the perfect setup that involves the problems with DOT stacking and anyone will die from it regardless.

Tank with wargas NCPD flamer.
Monk with poison psi
Tank with CS.

Doesn't matter what ammo mods the CS has, fuck it doesn't even matter if you get hit by them or not. but that setup 3vs1 and anyone will die. I made the CS tank run before i had to hull ass outta there. And you know what the shitty part about this battle was? I died in a safe zone from 7 poison stacks that dropped my health from 400hp to 0 in 4 seconds. Only reason i had to run was because i had so many DOT stacks i couldn't see the right side of my screen. The poison stacked with the fire dmg from the flamer is terrible. Even if it doesn't do a whole lot of dmg its just a matter of all the little ammounts stacking up and not having to really aim from the monk or flamer tank.

I am not bitching about this little fight, i thought it was a damn good idea. But having sufficient resists in poison and fire along with 512 max hp and just being raped by the time i unload a clip into one person is not what i would consider a "fun" game.
If i wanted to get pissed off at bullshit like this i would deal with my real life instead of trying to get away from it by playing a game and having the game piss me off more then i already am.

I'm done

Jakobe Ezthrel

[Dargeshaad]

Actually monks can do Force too, but even the best TL one with best stats and mod sucks monkey balls.

[TavrosAresK]

yeah i know monks have a wide selection of attacks. The fact that poison is screwed and everysingle monk is using poison now just proves the fact that it is screwed.

Just like every pistol person or tank used a liberator
just like CS is the trump card for tanks.

Shit liberators and judge used to be at least on par with being able to fight tanks. But now its just a waste of time to even fight anyone anymore when your a pistol using PE.

[redjacket]

Originally posted by TavrosAresK
yeah i know monks have a wide selection of attacks. The fact that poison is screwed and everysingle monk is using poison now just proves the fact that it is screwed.

Just like every pistol person or tank used a liberator
just like CS is the trump card for tanks.

Shit liberators and judge used to be at least on par with being able to fight tanks. But now its just a waste of time to even fight anyone anymore when your a pistol using PE.

everyone uses those weapons because they are the only ones that have any effect... and thats a problem... because you don't need a lot of skill to use them... and if you have a LOT of skill, you can own anyone with 'em... many of the other weapons require a lot of skill to even kill an unskilled person, nevermind someone with half a brain...

HL is useless in pvp since... duhhh... its energy... though if you cap its RoF, it isn't really that bad...

Fire Apoc is... iffy... it has potential, but its lower RoF cap and higher psi energy reqs make it... well... crap, imo... granted, theres less people with Fire protection...

Toxic Beam is something not many people can or do protect against... part of the problem is that there are about 3 items to help resist poison... (5 with the 191 test patch...) and there should probably be a full armor set for poison resist... and then mix and match...

---------------------------------

overall... everyone should have a weakness to at least one damage type... otherwise we all might as well have 100 con or just limit the game to one damage type... "hurting thing" damage type...

are tanks balanced? are monks balanced? hell no... they cant POSSIBLY be balanced when at least the Spy isn't...

eh... whatever... again... i ask of you... think of the apples...

[TavrosAresK]

Well yeah thats true to this game is pretty damned unbalanced.

[BarneyL]

Originally posted by TavrosAresK
yeah i know monks have a wide selection of attacks. The fact that poison is screwed and everysingle monk is using poison now just proves the fact that it is screwed.


No it proves that everything else a monk has is screwed.
When was the last time you saw a monk pulling out the uber force dealing PSI attack 2 for example ;)

Barney

PS I don't get TavrosAresK's post it seems to be complaining about the fact that in PvP 2 tanks and a monk together could beat him on his own, well duh.

[TavrosAresK]

Monks have ALWAYS been overpowered if the person knew how to play them and set it up right. Ever since retail started its been like that.

And the 3vs1 example was to include examples of different damage type in a battle setting. Considering how bad the poison damage is from a monk in 1v1, if the monk has shelter on it makes it even worse. Unloading 3 clips from a 3 slots spitfire gatlin pistol at a monk while they are stacking a shit load of poison on me, I die but do 50 points of damage to the monk total. Now that is some bullshit. Infact this whole goddamn game is bullshit and the only reason i am still bothering is because i reactivated my account thinking it got better and KK would not refund my 10 reactivation after the first hour i reactivated it.

Necron had a wonderful concept behind it. It was an awesome game to play in beta and retail and i was totally emmersed in the world, hell all i did in beta was make shit and i had fun. But its just sad now that KK has proved they cannot make this game what it should have been.

[deac]

Originally posted by ZigZag
What Vet is saying is what eveyone ingame is seeing who PvPs - even WITH over 90 (in my case) poison resist, if a monk stacks over 6 or so poison beams on u (and he can stack 12 ive seen) u r dead.

AND??

6 shots shouldnt kill you?

maybe they should have to stack 20???

6 cs blasts kills most pe's(i think) all spys x 2, and us apu monks x 2 .

AND a maxed tank wont have much hps after that............

really dont see your point :\

[Doc Lao]

by the time i unload a clip into one person is not what i would consider a "fun" game.

I get your point. However by the time you empy your clip a lot of things in front of you are dead, especially APU monks.

[TavrosAresK]

Considering the casting rate on the spell, the fizzle rate and not having to constantly aim just point and click. Fuck no you should not be able to stack 12 DOT poisons of the same kind on one person.

With a CS you can at least dodge somewhat. Start thinking for the love of god man.


Originally posted by deac


AND??

6 shots shouldnt kill you?

maybe they should have to stack 20???

6 cs blasts kills most pe's(i think) all spys x 2, and us apu monks x 2 .

AND a maxed tank wont have much hps after that............

really dont see your point :\

[deac]

yes i am..........while i STAND there and point and click most tanks rush up to me and 2 hit kills me..........

Dodging a Cs is kinda hard if you want to try and cast any spells :\

[BarneyL]

Originally posted by TavrosAresK
And the 3vs1 example was to include examples of different damage type in a battle setting. Considering how bad the poison damage is from a monk in 1v1, if the monk has shelter on it makes it even worse. Unloading 3 clips from a 3 slots spitfire gatlin pistol at a monk while they are stacking a shit load of poison on me, I die but do 50 points of damage to the monk total.

Hold on I thought in your first post you said you did enough damage to the tank to make him run off? Sounds balanced to me you took on 3 players on your own, nearly killed one of them turned to start killing the monk and escaped out to a safe zone with 400 HP left? How actually did 3 players manage to do so little damage in the time it took a monk to stack that much damage on you either it was really low or you have remarkably high health levels. 7 poison stacks doing 400 HP of damage is very balanced particularly considering that a cursed soul would do over 1000 HP of damage to an APU monk in 6 shots....


Barney

[Pfehh]

Originally posted by TavrosAresK
Considering the casting rate on the spell, the fizzle rate and not having to constantly aim just point and click. Fuck no you should not be able to stack 12 DOT poisons of the same kind on one person.

With a CS you can at least dodge somewhat. Start thinking for the love of god man.



Every single argument you've made has been refuted a hundred different times on these forums. Why are you wasting peoples time?

[redjacket]

how many people have tried to run and cast in true combat?

i have... its not exactly what i would call easy... the game allows running and casting to a point... sometimes it will randomly fail for no reason at all... and you HAVE to keep them targeted... if the tank is moving... eh... gonna be hard since most have some high ass runspeeds... not only that, but a rare melee can actually rip up an apu monk quite well... i've been owned by laser blades faster then i woulda thought... but the claws are the real pain in the ass... literally...

is the tank uber? eh... naw...

is the monk? eh... naw...

the hybrids may be lacking a tad bit of balance, but... considering that all the classes are, its no biggie imo...

[TavrosAresK]

It doesn't take that long to stack enough poison on someone to fuck them up good. With a CS you can at least dodge, there is no dodging this bullshit poison psi. See i died in a safe zone because I had so many poison DOT's stacked on me it just dropped my health in a matter of seconds to 0. My weapon dmg% are not maxed for my lib or judge so its a bitch to fight anyone. Fuck i chased a 36/52 tank for 3 zones back and forth through all 3 PP districts and in and out of most of the buildings. It was damn fun, but i from all the shots i fired at him it shoudl have did more damage then taking him down to %75.

But the point is, I know how fucked up and unbalanced this game is. I think everyone needs to bitch all at once and maybe someone at KK will dust off C++ for dummies and get to work.

[TavrosAresK]

Same reason your wasting your time answering my dumbass. And what other arguments are you talking about?



Originally posted by Pfehh


Every single argument you've made has been refuted a hundred different times on these forums. Why are you wasting peoples time?

[redjacket]

Originally posted by TavrosAresK
But the point is, I know how fucked up and unbalanced this game is. I think everyone needs to bitch all at once and maybe someone at KK will dust off C++ for dummies and get to work.

how it works...

bitch... bitch some more... continue bitching...

5 months later... KK makes the change... along with 50 others that make the change we bitch for null and void...

[TavrosAresK]

If tanks are 2 hit killing you then you don't have something setup right. Talk to Magesty for some reason that bitch learned how to play a monk correctly while i was away from neocron.

[TavrosAresK]

Your right Lao thats how its supose to work. But seriously something is messed up now and it isn't that easy anymore.
don't get me wrong its fun to dance with people without being frozen. But there isn't enough damage being done by my class to make any difference.

[VetteroX]

ok, I have some points.

First, though it seems ok so far, lets try to keep this inteligent, not just "you suck because xyz"

Second, as some people missed and some picked up, my problem is my resistance againt poison doesnt seem to help.... I can knock down fire/xray/energy damage with resists, but I cant seem to lower poison... wtf? Im not asking to be immune, but im asking for when I give up valuable energy and exray resist for a poison belt, use a poison resist spell, and risk dizzyness from a + 25 drug, it would be nice to see a signifigant change up from 0 poison resist... and im not seeing it. FIX RESISTS.

Third, I think its fine only monks can poison (I tried the n52 nailgun with poison, didnt do anything) cause every other class can do piercing or xray, which monks cant. Again, just make it so resists effect poison, because as of now, im not seeing it.

Most people know I yell at people who say "this is unfair theres no way to do this!!!" well, as of now ive put my best effort into resisting poison ad its not doing anything... so what do I do? The only success ive had is killing the monk before he can stack too much poison on, cause resists arent making me last any longer.

[Blackviper]

KK is adding ppu spells that couter poison attacks next patch right? Ok well there, if its low enough TL for a PE to use to heal one or two stacks of poison that would be fine. A majority of the time if i die from a poison attack via an APU, its after i have killed the APU. They cant take much damage at all.

Sure they can get 6 stacks of poison on you in what seems like all of a second in pvp, but they dont have the hp to handle what anyone else can dish out. If KK were to add in the poison heals then that would be a good after-battle heal. Make it a fairly long casting time, so you cant just sit there and cast it while your getting dotted to counter it completely, but give you the chance to heal yourself after a battle. And im not sure, are they adding anti poison drugs too? Another solution there. Theres no real problem with the poison dots.

I hate them as much as anyone else, the only time ive died since patch was maybe once or two via a poison based APU dot. So yes im pissed at it. But a high level psi should be able to pvp right? There should never be a time when someone can be completely invulnerable to every attack. There should be no "best resist combo" or ability to fight all classes using all weapons without having a sort of advantage.

Im a PE, i can kill tanks, i can kill ppu monks, i can kill apu monks, i can kill spies and even other PEs. But some of them give me trouble, as it should be. Its all situational. Just the other day i killed an APU monk and PPU monk both trying to hack my op. I killed them both, that right there says that i have a huge advantage over them. But i died via the 6-8 poison dots on me, so if i had the counter poison heal, that might even make me overpowered, ya know? Two people nearly capped that cant kill one single person? I don't believe poison needs nerfing, just tweaking.

I think everyone should just wait until the release of DoY before they decide to quit the game or make any big decisions about it till then. Alot will change, maybe everything everyone is asking for, maybe not. But until then you can't really say KK isn't doing anything. If you all think its so easy to make everyone happy and to make a perfect game, you try it. Your very much welcomed to. We live in a country that allows that, so power up your computers, start coding, start making some good models for your characters, and make us a new game, if you think your good enough to do so that is.

[Laurent]

Originally posted by KramerTheWeird
The only problem I have with poison is the fact that no other classes are capable of using it. Yes, there is NCPD War-Gas Flamers but they still aren't as powerful as most heavy weapons.

I would love to see melee weapons with poison damage, for example.

i am using Pain Eraser or Cs sometimes

[Inconsiderable.]

Originally posted by Blackviper
Im a PE, i can kill tanks, i can kill ppu monks, i can kill apu monks, i can kill spies and even other PEs. But some of them give me trouble, as it should be. Its all situational. Just the other day i killed an APU monk and PPU monk both trying to hack my op. I killed them both, that right there says that i have a huge advantage over them. But i died via the 6-8 poison dots on me, so if i had the counter poison heal, that might even make me overpowered, ya know?

Sounds like newb-bashing to me.

[Blackviper]

Well unfortunately for me my clan does not allow offensive pvp. I can only pvp when shot at, or when i find myself a member of a KOS clan. So you don't see me killing newbs too often. When i do its usually because they accidently walked in front of my sights during a battle with someone else. I don't expect you to believe me but, i honestly don't feel i need to say anymore.

[AlinKross]

Im not going to whine but i really feal that the poisen is a bit to strong as it is now, ppl fighting mobs ore n00bs dont even post your opinion. Last night i ran from my apt in PP and got to PP1 allmost zoning to plaza and .Cylon and 1 more SS monk spoted me and attacked me. LOL ran out to Plaza 3 and died it took 4 sek from the first attack.

So i guess we have to hangaround Plaza and other safezones untill KK takes care of this. PvP was resently getting fun when frezers was taken care of, the duells can last for a long time fighting other tanks ore PEs and so on but now we are back in the old PvP problem, all fights are going to end the same way as the last one no surprices the monks are going to rule.

Im not whining its facts, I personaly dont mind u can go right ahead poisening my sorry ass tank :)

[Inconsiderable.]

Originally posted by Blackviper
Well unfortunately for me my clan does not allow offensive pvp. I can only pvp when shot at, or when i find myself a member of a KOS clan. So you don't see me killing newbs too often. When i do its usually because they accidently walked in front of my sights during a battle with someone else. I don't expect you to believe me but, i honestly don't feel i need to say anymore.

u tell u killed a ppu and an apu alone as pe, right?

a) the players sucked uberbadly
b) the chars sucked uberbadly

its ur choice, still newb-bashing³

[Blackviper]

I evaded them till their deflectors wore off then killed them. I died a short time after from the poison dot. But it doesnt take more than 3 bursts from a pain easer to kill a monk. Besides the point of my post was to say poison didn't need nerfing. Not that im some uber godly pker from the deepest caverns of hell. What you think about my skill is really a moot point =P.

Theres always neofrag though if you wanna try me.

[Psycho Killa]

Lol your either full of shit about killing a ppu and apu... or they are the worst players in neocron. Im a ppu and no 5 players can kill me nm 1.

Ive died once since patch and it was with atleast 6 pimp members shootin me as i was ressing someone and my shelter came off =/.


3 bursts from a pain easer doesnt kill any ppu i know. Maybe a rank 20 ppu lol.

[Blackviper]

So you can take 3-4 bursts from a pain easer with capped damage without deflector on? Please show me this. Even if your monk has 300 hp you aren't going to survive that. Again.. whats the topic of this post? If any of you wanna join me in neofrag im just a message away. But going on about this is pointless =D

[Robert]

If any other class than monk will be able to do poision dmg. (Except Nailgun and flamer) I want a x-ray module, cause you guys can't do poision, I can't do x-ray dmg.

[Kazper]

I got an idea, lets remove all offensive psi modules from the game and make psi monks into 'monks' you know the abstract notion thats in video games that monks use their fists?

[Blackviper]

I agree with Kaz

[deac]

weeee i go down in 2 paineaser burts :D

[redjacket]

Originally posted by Blackviper
So you can take 3-4 bursts from a pain easer with capped damage without deflector on? Please show me this. Even if your monk has 300 hp you aren't going to survive that. Again.. whats the topic of this post? If any of you wanna join me in neofrag im just a message away. But going on about this is pointless =D

Force Resist... lots of it... PPU monks dont need EXP chips... they can hit the Psi Energy cap naturally... plus holy spirit does offer some decent protection from Pierce... not much, but it IS something...

---------------------------

lets just nerf poison back to where it was before... useless...
then lets add more energy resists to armor and make the energy resist subskill more effective...
now, lets cut down the RoF on Fire spells even more...

why should a monk be able to fight?

*sigh* it doesn't matter if poison is nerfed or not... it doesn't matter if everyone gets poison weapons or not... it doesn't matter if every class can do every damage type... the fact is, the only unique class in the game is the monk... they are the only ones not using a carbon copy weapon... plasma pistol/rifle/cannon... bah... but even out spells are carbon copy of each other... WOOHOO!

eh... nerf the poison... lets put monks in their place, wiping asses...

[VetteroX]

Kazper, Ive fought with you and against you, and expect more from you... I asked for none of thoes posts. What im saying is, I noticed no difference between 0 poison resist and like 80 resist. Not some improvement, none at all. So theres 2 options 1) fix resists (not gonna happen... hasnt since the game begun) or 2) weaken poison some.

[QuantumDelta]

Hmm..not really sure where I stand on poisen, apart from the fact that the DEX Users need something beyond a nail gun that can do poisen damage...

However, I think it was thursday, after patch anyway...

Bloody two monks and three tank team cap up to me, one glued me to the floor (holy para) and then the other stacked me to hell with poisen...
I was ready for this, I had VKA on (37 POS) FH2 (15 POS) 15 Natural POS Resist Drug and Basic Resist Booster 2 on..
....I survived.... simply because they left me alone and went to try to kill my three teammates... What I was pissed about, was the fact that they specifically targetted me first to take me out of the first, they stacked the poisen so much on my ass so quickly that it went off the screen ... Due to all the armor, holy shelter my heal sanctum and repetative heals while sucking on medipacks away from combat I survived.... (..but litterally HP down to 6 at one point so not far off deaths)

It's not the damage the poisen stack does, it's just the unlimited stacking that annoys me.. stacked so much I couldn't even see my buffs... my team 1 ppu two tanks and me won but it cost us two peeps, that seems fair to me, I ain't bitching about that..
But due to the stacking, the number of insane stacks that were on me, I was simply disabled for the whole fight, there was nothing I could do except hide.... pretty much the exact time I recoved was when they were both dead and by the time I got around the corner of the hill the last tank had fallen over as well...

What I would like to ask, is that KK raise the actual initial damage done by the poisen attack, and lower the DoT or Stacking time you spend poisened... in such a way that it either loses a slight bit of power or stays the same (We don't want one hit kill weapons but stacking is annoying....)
I think being able to stack someone so much their buffs go off the screen on the 1024x768 res is a bit rediculus....

Anyone else....? o_O

[redjacket]

Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Hmm..not really sure where I stand on poisen, apart from the fact that the DEX Users need something beyond a nail gun that can do poisen damage...

However, I think it was thursday, after patch anyway...

Bloody two monks and three tank team cap up to me, one glued me to the floor (holy para) and then the other stacked me to hell with poisen...
I was ready for this, I had VKA on (37 POS) FH2 (15 POS) 15 Natural POS Resist Drug and Basic Resist Booster 2 on..
....I survived.... simply because they left me alone and went to try to kill my three teammates... What I was pissed about, was the fact that they specifically targetted me first to take me out of the first, they stacked the poisen so much on my ass so quickly that it went off the screen ... Due to all the armor, holy shelter my heal sanctum and repetative heals while sucking on medipacks away from combat I survived.... (..but litterally HP down to 6 at one point so not far off deaths)

It's not the damage the poisen stack does, it's just the unlimited stacking that annoys me.. stacked so much I couldn't even see my buffs... my team 1 ppu two tanks and me won but it cost us two peeps, that seems fair to me, I ain't bitching about that..
But due to the stacking, the number of insane stacks that were on me, I was simply disabled for the whole fight, there was nothing I could do except hide.... pretty much the exact time I recoved was when they were both dead and by the time I got around the corner of the hill the last tank had fallen over as well...

What I would like to ask, is that KK raise the actual initial damage done by the poisen attack, and lower the DoT or Stacking time you spend poisened... in such a way that it either loses a slight bit of power or stays the same (We don't want one hit kill weapons but stacking is annoying....)
I think being able to stack someone so much their buffs go off the screen on the 1024x768 res is a bit rediculus....

Anyone else....? o_O

yeah... i can see an imposed stacking limit for poison... but... the fact is... KK will fuck it up...

the fact is this... KK said they weren't done... and when they say they aren't done nerfing stuff or they will continue to nerf something until they cum all over themselves... they will...

posion is in for a nerf, so... dont worry all you anti-poison whiney hoes... same with the monk... and then soon, if KK does what they always do... spys will be combat effective... and whoop the crap out of monks... then they will get nerfed back down to where they were before, if not lower...

welcome to Rollercoastercron...

[QuantumDelta]

I don't really want it nerfed, but atm, all it does is DoT .. Not real damage, what I want is it to do real damage and have less DoT..kinda like Fire... is that so bad...? o_O

[redjacket]

Originally posted by QuantumDelta
I don't really want it nerfed, but atm, all it does is DoT .. Not real damage, what I want is it to do real damage and have less DoT..kinda like Fire... is that so bad...? o_O

no... I'm just saying that ultimately, kk doesn't care... yeah yeah yeah... KK listens... but right now... KK doesn't care... and they wont care for a few months... because KK does listen, but it takes them a while to understand anything... maybe they will change... but... eh... no comment...

[Richard Adregen]

Originally posted by QuantumDelta
I don't really want it nerfed, but atm, all it does is DoT .. Not real damage, what I want is it to do real damage and have less DoT..kinda like Fire... is that so bad...? o_O

Might be... but if that happens, you're basically removing the distinction between Poison and Fire (except damage type). I'd prefer keeping the distinction, but put a limit on the stacks. Not too low though.

Regards,
RA.

[QuantumDelta]

I believe Belasarius is the only DEV in contact with the community, he's just about the only coder that comes down here and checks out our oppinions (visibly at least, there are other DEVs diving around the test server, but Bel is the only dude I've seen interact with players...)...
So what they get has to filter through other layers of the organisation via proxi.... which....is really bad.... from the customers point of view anyway :p

.... And I've only seen Bel post on Epic material.... heh...


Rich;

TBH there's no reason there should be a distinction between them, I mean, do you see a DoT Lib? o_O DoT Judge? nah...

...Point is, if someone stacks poisen on another player during an opwar a few times it will take them out of the fight for a few minutes, or possibly even kill them if they don't have good heals / poisen resist... so as it stands if you get poisened in a opwar that is likely to be quick, you would be better off just charging in like an idiot and trying to do as much damage as possible until you unavoidably die... what's the point in that? o_O

...that's my reasoning behind it, I don't like being taken out of commision by a non-leathal method for over 4minutes unless it's a physical obstruction, like another player, not just have a monk stack poisen on me for about ten seconds of his time then proceed to ignore me and attack my mates o_O

....I guess that's the price for being top of the food chain in my class? ......blahh..........

[deac]

yes lets make it like fire !!! and then lets make fire at nrg !!! and !!!

why must all the attacks be the same?

[QuantumDelta]

Originally posted by deac
yes lets make it like fire !!! and then lets make fire at nrg !!! and !!!

why must all the attacks be the same?

Fine, gimme a DoT Phos Xray and Explo Lib.
then You can STFU :)

Oh and DoT Poisen as well while your at it, Kthxbye :p

[redjacket]

Originally posted by QuantumDelta


Fine, gimme a DoT Phos Xray and Explo Lib.
then You can STFU :)

Oh and DoT Poisen as well while your at it, Kthxbye :p

actually... i always wondered why DoT didn't work on burst weapons... and why do drones have to take all the damage at once? kinda makes their healing method useless...

someone gimme a gimped fish so i can slap KK around with it... then they might understand...

[Psycho Killa]

300 hp its more like 400+... and yea i can take 3-4 bursts with shelter on I dont know why your going on about deflector its not the save all weapon of monks but it does help.



Back on topic I think with the addition of the poisin antidote we wont have to worry to much about poisin then.

[QuantumDelta]

Originally posted by Psycho Killa
Back on topic I think with the addition of the poisin antidote we wont have to worry to much about poisin then.

Isn't that more of a reason to give poisen a greater initial impact damage? o_O

[Blackviper]

Since when does shelter protect verse piercing attacks? I was under the impression it was only useful for energy attacks.

[QuantumDelta]

Originally posted by Blackviper
Since when does shelter protect verse piercing attacks? I was under the impression it was only useful for energy attacks.

Energy, Xray, Fire, Poisen, AFAIK.
What does half of a modded weapons damage impact as?
:)

[Psycho Killa]

Shelter helps with everything. Though where getting off topic here and with you making that statements its making me doubt that you took these two people out even more :D (just messin with ya)


Anyways my point wasnt really your full of yourself. Its that a ppu and apu that know what there doing can take out a whole army without flinching.


BAck on topic once more: All this bragging about I dont die often in pvp actualy maybe has a point here. The only thing that can kill me one on one so far with all the people ive tested with... is a poisin beam :D. Poisin flamer did more damage to me then a cs hahaha. Ive since then got some poisin resists. Although I cant tell if the poisin resists are helping or the 10% cut in poisin damage. Have to test poisin beam again and see...

[Blackviper]

well im done trying to prove that i killed them. Honestly doesnt matter to me. I know i did, thats enough for me. Always up for some neofrag though if anyone wants to. For fun, don't care who wins.

[Pfehh]

Originally posted by QuantumDelta
I don't really want it nerfed, but atm, all it does is DoT .. Not real damage, what I want is it to do real damage and have less DoT..kinda like Fire... is that so bad...? o_O

I like that it doesn't do damage the exact same method as fire, personally. I really don't want every single attack spell of reasonable level to do damage in 1 of 2 ways.

I'd be up for a reasonable stack limit, though. Maybe 8 or so.

But since it's gonna get nerfed again, that's really pointless.

[Lifewaster]

I'd suggest best solution is to allow the infinite stacks but only allow a limited number of stacks to deal damage, like the most recent 6 or something, then you can still overstack simply to cause a longer effect. If the person hangs about long enough he will die, but if he tries to run with 15 stacks on him then he has a chance to live if you dont persue and restack etc.

I had personal experience where I came a tank out of chaos caves still buffed with hazard 3 and wearing viper king, so I had 90 con resist and 37 armor, I met a hybrid monk outside who was basically invulnerable to CS and he landed 15+ stacks of poison beam in about the time it took me to get one ammo clip off, I did basically no damage to him and lost half my life in that time, then he ran off out of sight and came back in time to see me die a little later. Even if I had managed to damage him with a gatling I'm sure he could easily have healed that up in the meantime.

So you can basically take one hybrid, give him enough apu for Toxic beam, and the rest in ppu defense = no contest against a poison resist buffed tank, or probably several tanks for that matter.

I think the reason poison is unbalanced for PvP is because it continues to do damage after the combatants are disengaged , in which time the healing abilities of the poison user far outweigh those of the other combatant.
If the tank above had been using a 5 slot gatling and could actually hurt the hybrid then perhaps the fight would go as follows :

Approach/attack/lose 25% hps each/seperate/Tank loses further 25% from continuing poison while monk heals back his 25%/meet again with tank at 50% and monk at full/attack again /lose 25% each again /seperate again this time with tank at 25% and monk at 75%/ monk heals to full and tank loses remaining 25% and dies....ok so its possible to constantly chase the monk, but in reality your not gonna land any hits running with a heavy weapon untill he stops to cast at you, and in the time you get your clip or so off hes got 15 stacks back onto you.

Basically poison does tons more damage from its dot effect than you can do in direct fire, and all the poison stacks can be landed in the short time you manage to exchange fire (ie:monk stops to cast) , then its a case of monk running about healing while you continue to take damage and either try to hit him or else cast your woefully inadequate heal, then monk re-engages only when hes healed back to full or so. You will eventually lose, its just a question of how long you can last in order to make it at least a little fun for the monk :p

[Drusus]

Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Hmm..not really sure where I stand on poisen, apart from the fact that the DEX Users need something beyond a nail gun that can do poisen damage...

However, I think it was thursday, after patch anyway...

Bloody two monks and three tank team cap up to me, one glued me to the floor (holy para) and then the other stacked me to hell with poisen...
I was ready for this, I had VKA on (37 POS) FH2 (15 POS) 15 Natural POS Resist Drug and Basic Resist Booster 2 on..
....I survived.... simply because they left me alone and went to try to kill my three teammates... What I was pissed about, was the fact that they specifically targetted me first to take me out of the first, they stacked the poisen so much on my ass so quickly that it went off the screen ... Due to all the armor, holy shelter my heal sanctum and repetative heals while sucking on medipacks away from combat I survived.... (..but litterally HP down to 6 at one point so not far off deaths)

It's not the damage the poisen stack does, it's just the unlimited stacking that annoys me.. stacked so much I couldn't even see my buffs... my team 1 ppu two tanks and me won but it cost us two peeps, that seems fair to me, I ain't bitching about that..
But due to the stacking, the number of insane stacks that were on me, I was simply disabled for the whole fight, there was nothing I could do except hide.... pretty much the exact time I recoved was when they were both dead and by the time I got around the corner of the hill the last tank had fallen over as well...

What I would like to ask, is that KK raise the actual initial damage done by the poisen attack, and lower the DoT or Stacking time you spend poisened... in such a way that it either loses a slight bit of power or stays the same (We don't want one hit kill weapons but stacking is annoying....)
I think being able to stack someone so much their buffs go off the screen on the 1024x768 res is a bit rediculus....

Anyone else....? o_O

One question and only one question....

If the attacks you had been hit with had been with a different weapon of comparable strength (say a cursed soul) from one parashock monk rooting you first, then the others opening up....

Would you have survived at all from that many hits?

Standard hits front end load damage. Poison back end loads it, but does so with the benefit of higher payout in terms of delayed effect (More total damage, over longer timeframe).

You say you had so many stacks it was off the screen. Ok, that is what? 10 direct hits? minimum?

Would you still be standing with 10 hits from a Cursed Soul?

If your answer is no, then poison works perfectly in taking you to the wire.

If your answer is yes, (and you would have had _completely equal resist to both attack types_) then poison may have a problem.

Drusus

[KramerTheWeird]

Heh, a hybrid even at this patch can take 3-4 PE bursts if they know their shit.

about stacks.. fear my TL 35 radiated enforcer pumpgun! The x-ray stacks will confuse you so much you won't tell when your heal or shelter comes off and then you're dead!

or.. how about a part of the screen seperate for PSI debuffs and damage indicators?

[QuantumDelta]

Why is some fool comparing a RARE UNCAPPED STAT PLASMA Cannon to A Non-Rare Capped Stat PSI Mod? o_O
I don't understand your logic, even by game rules the Poisen Beam Should be no where near CS Damage.
Your point is moot.
However.
If I was hit ten times by CS, you bet I'd still be alive.

Just barely but I would, regardless of it's mod type ;)

You forget burst weapons are completely different to anything a PSI Mod would be like? o_O that damage is amplified with the more of the burst that hit? o_O

Little understand I sense in this one...mm... yes.....

...Regardless, I will answer your moot point.

When hit by poisen I would RATHER DIE than have to spend fuck knows how long fighting off stack after stack after stack of this CRAP that spent one player ten damn seconds of his time to take a player completely out of combat for four minutes, you can die and get rezzed faster than that damnit, What was worse than your question is the suggestion made by life, stacking 'til 10 only has effect while stacking after that extends the existance of the spell?
........Errr.... Hold on, isn't that WORSE than it currently is? o_O
ATM all the stacks clear at once, in the long run while this is more damaging it doesn't take you out for so long.
It's pathetic though, 'oh, I'll just cast this on him for ten seconds and he wont be able to do anything more than watch for four minutes, if it were anyone else in the group they'd be dead, hmm yes....sounds fair...
Even Tanks don't have that kind of power o_O

CS Will hurt more if shot the amount that those poisen beams hit *obviously* what don't you get about "Rare" and "120% stats" and "Cannon" and "More than one damage type" o_O

...K, now slightly calmer :p

If I had compared equal poisen hits to equal hits of a directly comperable Cannon, that would be a TPC.
Wanna know how many times you can hit me with a TPC while fully buffed before I fall over?
I wont fall over.
Period. You'd be dead before you did much damage...

About the resists....

I had....

37+15+15+15+20(drugs, 20 or 25?)+13(spare con)+shelter+heal sanct+heal group

So you're telling me 115poisen resist plus the shelter plus the heals isn't enough....?
....Yeesh.

With constrast from Energy TPC with an Xray Mod.
At the time;
65 ENR, Med Energy belt which I temporarily forgot the value of... (50?) 38 XRA + 7 XRAY + 10 ENR + 22 ENR
I believe that's my natural and armor covered, then shelter, then heals...
....You're telling me this should do more? o_O
Seems you think it should considering you compared beam to the RARE version of it.
Oh, lookit, I have roughly 147 energy resist total, sounds great, but wait... on a ratio of roughly 32:30 Energy:Xray
I have a total of ..1..2...3... ! 45 xray!! o_O
Infact due to the figures I should take more damage from TPC! quite a bit more...
Do I? Not really, no... TPC sux0rs....

[KramerTheWeird]

Flaw in your argument is that xray modded plasma cannons deal 66% energy and 33% xray, or something to that extent, so you don't need as much resist in xray, but otherwise I agree :D

[QuantumDelta]

Originally posted by KramerTheWeird
Flaw in your argument is that xray modded plasma cannons deal 66% energy and 33% xray, or something to that extent, so you don't need as much resist in xray, but otherwise I agree :D
Zat so? mm..
I miss my plasma :(

[KramerTheWeird]

well all that means is that you have improper variables for testing.. technically, you should allocate the same energy and xray resist as poison resist, except have a 2:1 ratio

so 100 poison resist, for equal variables you'd need 66 energy and 33 xray resist.

assuming that there's no diminishing returns, or multipliers with resists.. which we'll never know EVER because KK doesn't even know :D

[Drusus]

Rather than try and address your whole post QuantumDelta, I'll do it easier and re-dress your key points.

One, I stated a weapon of comparable strength. If that is not the cursed soul, which I take to be the upper end of the Tank weapon spectra comparing to the best poison attack monks have (which I understood in your example was what they were using?) but is intead the TPC, so be it. I was trying to compare the 'bests' available to each group, and I was unaware of any rare poison beam that would be equivalent. Monks operated under slightly differnt rules than us tool users for getting the most out of things it seems.

Two, chill out mate. :) I didn't say you were wrong in your estimation. I said that if the resists of these two damage types was even and then one was clearly outstripping the other, there was a problem. Your analysis would tend to indicate that may be the case. HOWEVER, the damage on the TPC you were comparing it to is again, front end loaded. With that, once you hit the critical damage point, you are instantly dead. With poison, you may reach the 'critical point but cna still retalitate while it ticks away. You would rather die outright you say then respond to the poison damage you were dealt. A curious choice considering you could potentially take out the people responsible for your imminent demise first, giving them a pyrrhic victory at best.

Poison WILL do more damage at lower levels as that damage is spread out over a greater time, allowing for response to the effect of being poisoined. Considering that poison removal psi's are coming in the next patch, I should think that would help control many of the issues folks are finding in play now.

If poison damage is far outstripping (and i mean FAR) other damage types at comparable resists then there likely is a problem.

Drusus

[QuantumDelta]

...I'm just pissed for two reasons....
A) If poisen gets another nerf it'll be "it" for monks really... since the Stacking / DoT on Poisen is such an important part of it's existance and there are drugs coming out limiting that, I felt the need to change it's nature slightly to avoid total nerfage...
B) Every time monks get changed, everyone jumps on the newest -damn-near-exploit-method-to-kill just cookie cutting everyone else...
C) It pisses me off that a PE can be taken totally out of action with ten seconds effort then proceeding to do that to everyone else.. if they had had time, they could have done that to everyone there, I'm pretty sure only the PPU Monk would have survived if he'd done what he did to me...

Dang... someone targets you first simply because they think you're better.... really though....no matter how good I am I'm playing the second most gimped style char in the game o_O
Even Pure APU is useful with a good PPU ...is PE? ...lol... not really bah I need to play with my setup more....

That's another problem though.....
No matter what you do with a Pistol PE all it can do effectively is PvM... (...Yeah.... Ok it does PvM pretty frickin Good I can survive in the Graves without too much trouble, I haven't tried soloing the VK himself but I've been farming snake minion teeth and making a mint...)

As for the "I want a different kind of damage" ... DoT Phos Lib... something I've wanted since they broke it I never got to use a DoT Lib if there ever was one, but I saw someone's figures, if I had DoT I could probably drug for AGL, pump STA Boosters and stay out of trouble and just pour damage onto a Tank 'when I can' not 'As much as I can afford to because if he even luckily lands CS on me I'm gonna die by the end of the fourth burst... ...The first burst having 'a chance' of screwing my legs...')
bleh... heh
I'm getting pretty flamey again... I need a break or somethin...

[Jakobe~Ezthrel]

And after all this time its still a problem...

[Jakobe~Ezthrel]

And after all this time its still a problem...

[KidWithStick]

STOP WITH THE NERFAGE K THX BYE

[Nidhogg]

Don't bump. Don't break any other rules either.

N