Vehicle Damage

[bobhoskins]

This is an outstanding issue that needs addressing. Many haven't reported the issue as they are reaping advantage of the insane damage for fast PVE farming and easy PVP kills

[JoshCooper]

I don't see an issue with vehicle damage.

Yes they are powerful - they have to be to attract people. But it's not like they are difficult to acquire, meaning noone is getting an unfair advantage by using them.

All combat vehicles have their weakness' and people just have to adapt and play against them. Not run at a bomber / stand in the open shooting it.

Coordinated groups of players may make them seem OP, but that's because they are a coordinated group of players. Without that coordination & support they are no stronger then the 2-3 people being on foot.

Vehicles add another layer of fun and that's ultimately why we still play, lets not ruin an area of the game.

[Drake6k]

Whenever I see a rhino or bomber I get excited. If two DPS focus a bomber, the bomber will nearly die even if it immediately starts flying away. Run circles around it, the thing turns slowly. Rhinos are great, but quite easy to kill if you focus them too. Vehicle pvp has been the hightlight of gameplay for me recently. Vehicles are finally viable enough to use. They require specialized characters and a lot of teamwork.

Of course vehicles are going to be used in outdoor (wasteland) PvE. If vehicles did less damage than normal weapons, no one would use them. Rhinos are fucking tanks after all. There is plenty of indoor PvE where vehicles aren't even an option.

BG tried to use bombers against us and we blew both of them up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3w4oHAOlwI

If you can't counter vehicles, you're doing something wrong. If they are so easy to use, why isn't anyone else getting bomber kills? It's literally just me, one person. Get some vehicles and show us how easy it is, we might end up having fun.

[bmurph101]

Yeah, this is not any kind of issue that needs to be addressed at all currently lmao. Waaaaay more important stuff to focus on.

Sorry man.

[bobhoskins]

Whenever I see a rhino or bomber I get excited. If two DPS focus a bomber, the bomber will nearly die even if it immediately starts flying away. Run circles around it, the thing turns slowly. Rhinos are great, but quite easy to kill if you focus them too. Vehicle pvp has been the hightlight of gameplay for me recently. Vehicles are finally viable enough to use. They require specialized characters and a lot of teamwork.

Of course vehicles are going to be used in outdoor (wasteland) PvE. If vehicles did less damage than normal weapons, no one would use them. Rhinos are fucking tanks after all. There is plenty of indoor PvE where vehicles aren't even an option.

BG tried to use bombers against us and we blew both of them up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3w4oHAOlwI

If you can't counter vehicles, you're doing something wrong. If they are so easy to use, why isn't anyone else getting bomber kills? It's literally just me, one person. Get some vehicles and show us how easy it is, we might end up having fun.

You also didn’t see an issue with Kami Damage and tried your hardiest to rally against them being balanced… along with the rest of your clan mates… here’s the link to that https://forum.neocron-game.com/showthread.php?156927-Adjusting-Kami-drones, they have since been balanced correctly.
The vehicle damage currently has an absolute minimum of 2x more DPS than any Weapon available in game, so in both PVE and PVP it only make’s sense to use vehicles currently as anything else is under powered in comparison, this has been noted by many players. Even your man Brendan agree's it's an issue as above. Not saying needs to be addressed as a priority Brendan i've made it clear there are far more game breaking issues to solve... and i dont mean a big light saber lol.

[Mal]

This is an outstanding issue that needs addressing. Many haven't reported the issue as they are reaping advantage of the insane damage for fast PVE farming and easy PVP kills

You've failed to say what you think the issue is. How do you expect it to be addressed when you're not clearly and concisely advising what you think it wrong, and how you feel it could be rectified?

'many' haven't reported. Perhaps 'many' don't think it's an issue, just you?

[bobhoskins]

You've failed to say what you think the issue is. How do you expect it to be addressed when you're not clearly and concisely advising what you think it wrong, and how you feel it could be rectified?

'many' haven't reported. Perhaps 'many' don't think it's an issue, just you?


"The vehicle damage currently has an absolute minimum of 2x more DPS than any Weapon available in game" They have a higher survivability than any runner in game has that goes hand in hand with the extra damage making it overpowered.

Maybe you should take some time to educate yourself on balancing Mal.

The only argument you have is it's "Fun".... funny how you never found them fun before the damage was a minimum of 2x more powerful than any weapon available to anyone on foot. You should spend efforts on learning to coordinate single target weapons more effectively in your clan as you should be able to with 3-4 guys.

[JoshCooper]

"The vehicle damage currently has an absolute minimum of 2x more DPS than any Weapon available in game" They have a higher survivability than any runner in game has that goes hand in hand with the extra damage making it overpowered.

These vehicles also require 2 people to use, they should do more dmg as your taking 2 foot soldiers away. The exceptions being the trike & assault gliders which leaves the driver super vunerable and only able to shoot in a small cone infront.

[bobhoskins]

These vehicles also require 2 people to use, they should do more dmg as your taking 2 foot soldiers away. The exceptions being the trike & assault gliders which leaves the driver super vulnerable and only able to shoot in a small cone infront.

No they don't these vehicles i am referring to can be piloted and gunned by one runner. The bomber pilot can also drop the bombs, and that vehicle specifically has 4x DPS output than that of any weapon available lol. You are clutching at straws to try and find justification for an area that is currently unbalanced. Vehicle's have never been this way in neocron and have never supposed to be.

[JoshCooper]

No they don't these vehicles i am referring to can be piloted and gunned by one runner. The bomber pilot can also drop the bombs, and that vehicle specifically has 4x DPS output than that of any weapon available lol. You are clutching at straws to try and find justification for an area that is currently unbalanced. Vehicle's have never been this way in neocron and have never supposed to be.

Now you really are showing your lack of knowledge on the subject. No bombing vehicle allows the pilot to drop bombs. Bombing involves 2 people, skill & coordination.

You already admitted on discord you have no interest in participating in vehicle PvP - please don't try to ruin it for those who enjoy it because you cba to counter it / don't have the back up to take one on.

[bobhoskins]

Now you really are showing your lack of knowledge on the subject. No bombing vehicle allows the pilot to drop bombs. Bombing involves 2 people, skill & coordination.

You already admitted on discord you have no interest in participating in vehicle PvP - please don't try to ruin it for those who enjoy it because you cba to counter it / don't have the back up to take one on.


Just trying to get a more balanced game. Regardless if it take's 2 guys that doesnt justifty the vehicle DPS being 5 time's higher than any weapon in game with a higher survivibility than any runner. Currently the weapons are obsolete in comparison to vehicles due to the differences in damage. This is apparent in both PVP & PVE. I've seen a runner saying the other day about how he was farming firemobs with his cannon and players just told him straight up your doing it wrong... you need to use a rhino because of the increased damage.. So now runners are more restricted in play styles when it comes to both elements unless they want to choose the less effective path

[DIS]

No they don't these vehicles i am referring to can be piloted and gunned by one runner. The bomber pilot can also drop the bombs, and that vehicle specifically has 4x DPS output than that of any weapon available lol. You are clutching at straws to try and find justification for an area that is currently unbalanced. Vehicle's have never been this way in neocron and have never supposed to be.

There are two bombers, the main DOY bomber and a glider that drops bombs, both require bomber and pilot, latter leaves the players vulnerable to attack as its open top like any other Glider. So much for your 200+ hours of VHC testing...

Bombers are slow, hard to manoeuvrer and require team co-ordination, a single bomber going to an OP with no eyes on the ground will fail... BG proved that when they sent two bombers at us when they had no ground troops attacking, which we made a video of and posted... BG have also fended off a single bomber at Cycrow that we sent without a problem.

As you are so predictable by attacking from the UG and getting bombed then you will of course die and we will keep hovering over the entrance because you are predictable - the definition of insanity is doing something over and over again and expecting the same result - famous quote there Bob, you could learn a thing or two from it.

[DIS]

So now runners are more restricted in play styles when it comes to both elements unless they want to choose the less effective path

Rubbish... VHC will always be more powerful than hand weapons, isn't that the point? Players have the choice whether to invest in a VHC or not.. its a choice, ofc using a rhino is preferred over using cannons, but they are expensive, costly to maintain if you don't repair and can get easily overwhelmed if you do not have separate players driving and gunning.

I attacked a Rhino at El Farid the other day with 3-4 clan mates, no PPU.. PE, APU and hybrid, it had to leave... it could not kill us as we used cover and flanked it, not that difficult really.


VHC dps has been put to a level where it's useable again, pre patch you could out DPS any VHC which is ridiculous...

[bobhoskins]

[Edited] Before the Kami nerf your clan were big users of kami drones. Since they have been balanced not at all. You then switched to the Woc Launchers as they were also overpowered 2 hits killing any unbuffed character... This has now been balanced and you have all stopped using it as usual as you can no longer exploit the damage. The one exploitable area remaining is vehicles.. and you are trying your hardest to justify why it's not overpowered. Regardless if it takes 2 runners or not, that does not justify it doing 5x minimum increase over the highest hitting weapon. This needs to be addressed as currently weapons /normal pvp is obsolute compared to a vehicle which has much higher survivability than any combat character and has the ability to cause significantly more damage and also from more of a distance. VHC can be more powerfull than hand weapons i can agree on that... but it shouldn't be 5x more powerful than the highest hitting weapon in game lol

[JoshCooper]

vhc do 2x dmg .... vhc do 4x dmg .... vhc do 5x dmg....

Which is it? You seem to be increasing their dmg with each new post. I think it's best you get these "many" other runners to come and post. If the community as a whole thinks it needs a nerf I'd happily submit.

However I very much suspect it's you just wanting to nerf an area you personally don't like.

[bobhoskins]

Which is it? You seem to be increasing their dmg with each new post. I think it's best you get these "many" other runners to come and post. If the community as a whole thinks it needs a nerf I'd happily submit.

However I very much suspect it's you just wanting to nerf an area you personally don't like.

Those factors are relevant to vehicle that can be piloted and gunned by 1 runner and the other 2 runners. Just like to point out that the only members commenting about not wanting it a balanced are all from the one clan that is exploting the damage for their personal benefit. All Bad Dragon members who have changed clan name to "Rekt". Unfortunately in all games you always get the little toxic group of kiddys that like to exploit areas that are overpowered. Those well versed in pvp haven't touched them as they were not intended for that.. they are only being exploited now for it because of the damage irregularities

[Mal]

Bob - if you're having the revert to flaming and name-calling, rather than defending your point, then your point just isn't a very strong one.

[bobhoskins]

No flaming intended... Apologies if any offense was taking from that post... I was just providing awareness off the group off individuals that are replying to this thread :)

[Mal]

But if you're attacking the individuals, rather than the points they're raising, it gives the impression that your premise isn't particularly strong.

[JoshCooper]

Those factors are relevant to vehicle that can be piloted and gunned by 1 runner and the other 2 runners. Just like to point out that the only members commenting about not wanting it a balanced are all from the one clan that is exploting the damage for their personal benefit. All Bad Dragon members who have changed clan name to "Rekt". Unfortunately in all games you always get the little toxic group of kiddys that like to exploit areas that are overpowered. Those well versed in pvp haven't touched them as they were not intended for that.. they are only being exploited now for it because of the damage irregularities

I wondered how long till that argument came up. All your points end up with you posting that kami thread and complaining that a whole clan has a different view from you. So what if all players commenting are from a single clan? They still make up a larger proportion of the community then you and your clan, are their views not valid because they are in a clan you personally don't like?

At this point in the thread it's only you wanting this change. Don't act like you don't have your own agenda - everyone does.
You'd rather not actually try to counter / test vehicles though, whereas others in the community have.

[bobhoskins]

There is no point's to defend... The damage is too high.. the 2 person bomber is hitting with 5x higher DPS than any weapon available in game. The vehicle also has higher resists, can shoot from a further distance, and doesn't have to land a direct hit on the target.. he doesn't even have to achieve a reticle lock just simply click near to the target and the AOE effect of the bomb drop does the rest.

[bobhoskins]

I wondered how long till that argument came up. All your points end up with you posting that kami thread and complaining that a whole clan has a different view from you. So what if all players commenting are from a single clan? They still make up a larger proportion of the community then you are your clan, are their views not valid because they are in a clan you personally don't like?

At this point in the thread it's only you wanting this change. Don't act like you don't have your own agenda - everyone does.
You'd rather not actually try to counter / test vehicles though, whereas others in the community have.


I did actually test the vehicles against all weapon group sets which has led the conclusion stated above.You can verify this yourself's in game if you don't believe it. I have no personal agenda i would just like to see NC balanced as fairly as possible.

[JoshCooper]

Please watch the following video.

It shows 1 person take down a bomber with just a rav.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3w4oHAOlwI

[bobhoskins]

Whats your point? The vehicle has higher resists than any combat character and higher damage output and higher range. You are desperately clutching at straws showing a video of 2 tanks constantly attacking a bomber with a Ravager and Rocket launcher in which any combat character would have been dead in 1/4 of that time taking the same hits. Lol thanks

[JoshCooper]

How many times did the wocket actually hit and not fly past it?

If the bomber was as OP as you claim it would have killed them. Instead 2 bombers were destroyed.

All they had to do was run around whilst 1 person delivered constant dps.

[bobhoskins]

Lol you are missing the point in hand... The ravager was not missing shots, any combat character would have died in 1/4 of that time and has a DPS output less than 5x of a bomber. Man you must be running out of straws to grasp at lol. You should a video where the vehicles were poorly used... It's like getting a video of a Tank using CS who cant aim his target and saying "hey this CS is too weak" lol guys like you are the reason for poor balanced areas of the game. As you come with self centered biased opinions to support play-styles you like to exploit regardless if they are balanced. One the many reasons we have less activity from Op fighting clans than in the past..

[Mal]

Just to get the Elephant in the Room out of the way.

Understandably this is a game, so it has its own take on reality - however, in reality, bombers and tanks and the suchlike are not balanced with human infantry and are capable of doing massive amounts of damage if people don't work as a team in order to neutralise them.

I'm still fuzzy on what your suggested 'fix' is. With the points you're raising, it almost feels like it's being suggested that all do the same damage and have the same sort of durability as a player's character? That would be rather ludicrous.

[JoshCooper]

It doesn't matter how many time you claim I'm clutching at straws - it won't make it right.

As you have identified in your last post, you need skill & coordination to pull off using a bomber. Until now you have been implying that any old chump could jump in and dominate the wastes.

Also comparing a bombers HP with a runners is ridiculous. The bomber can be hit from like 25% of the zone at any time and it the biggest model in the game, if it was comparable to a runner it'd be dead LONG before it gets anywhere it's bombing range.

It's bombing range is also something you are overstating.

Also attacking rekless for no OP fighting clans is pointless, clans come and go this is NC. There are many factors which come into play. I'd be just as justified to claim GP made them quit. Noone from those clans is going to chip in to correct you and know it.

[William Antrim]

Im not getting involved in your flame war but I just would like to ask if the Anti Vehicle launchers are still in game? If they are do they work?

It seems like this thread has gone from vehicles need to be nerfed to bombers need to be nerfed. To the casual observer (me) it looks like it is bombers that need to be nerfed (in one opinion) whereas regular ground vehicles dont?

If its the case of open cockpit vehicles (trike etc) then you can still target the driver so i think this is ok right?

In the case of the rhino - its a fucking tank - of course it should outdamage a man with a creed on his shoulder. For many years it didnt have this ability and you would get LE'd creed tanks ruining rhino farming which took two people to do (characters) over the one guy on foot. I think this is also a good thing that this has now changed. If one person on foot wants to take down a tank they need an antivehicle launcher in my eyes.

Same for the flying vehicles, fall damage alone should kill the pilot so you can just get yourself a decent SAM launcher and ruin that fuckers day bob? Isnt this the best way? Dont get mean, get even. :)

If memory serves we used to get the AV launchers in MB. I havent logged in in a while but I think this is the best thing for it no?

Certainly i think it solves your arguments.

[bobhoskins]

It's right and the evidence is in this thread lol. I just gave the reason why the video you provided was a flawed example nothing about skill required. The main issue in hand is the damage out put of the Bomber josh being 5x that of any weapon available in game.

[bobhoskins]

Im not getting involved in your flame war but I just would like to ask if the Anti Vehicle launchers are still in game? If they are do they work?

It seems like this thread has gone from vehicles need to be nerfed to bombers need to be nerfed. To the casual observer (me) it looks like it is bombers that need to be nerfed (in one opinion) whereas regular ground vehicles dont?

If its the case of open cockpit vehicles (trike etc) then you can still target the driver so i think this is ok right?

In the case of the rhino - its a fucking tank - of course it should outdamage a man with a creed on his shoulder. For many years it didnt have this ability and you would get LE'd creed tanks ruining rhino farming which took two people to do (characters) over the one guy on foot. I think this is also a good thing that this has now changed. If one person on foot wants to take down a tank they need an antivehicle launcher in my eyes.

Same for the flying vehicles, fall damage alone should kill the pilot so you can just get yourself a decent SAM launcher and ruin that fuckers day bob? Isnt this the best way? Dont get mean, get even. :)

If memory serves we used to get the AV launchers in MB. I havent logged in in a while but I think this is the best thing for it no?

Certainly i think it solves your arguments.


I agree Will and also made the point that with an Anti Vehicle launcher that would solve the issue in hand some time ago. But that is something that would need the balancing resource to look at as they are currently in effective against vehicles.

[Chazz]

So am I seeing that correctly Bob is pissed because he has no tactical awareness and can´t take down a bomber because it does more dmg then any weapon ingame , you do know that a bomber needs 2 guys , who have to be in voice to work properly and it can easy be taken down by 1 guy if they do it clever ?

Bob your Kind of PvP involves having 30 chars logged out nearby and 2 PPUs supporting you , one Player that uses your accounts so he can avoid his ban . That is nearly the same ... Not everyone can log 50 chars if he dies , so I´m for nerfing Bob and deleting lets say 50 of his 75 chars.

[bobhoskins]

I'm surprised Chazz hasn't commented yet as he was PMing me on discord to not mention the vehicles being overpowered as it's their only viable way to do PVE currently with the increased damage over weapons. So the guys supporting this are not taking balance into consideration, just for personal gain..

[bobhoskins]

Lol chazz when we foguht your clan- 3 of us vs 6 + i myself am playing 3 hackers for layers. So i have to log 3 different characters for each layer. You moan about duel logs but during this fight you play 3 different characters after they got killed... Peggy, Chazz , and Chazzinator, your member Disco starting on Tank who died and then switched to hybrid... Oh man you do provide me amusement :)
You have no argument to support Vehicles being this overpowered. Stop the flaming and consider balance in NC before this game gets dragged deeper underwater.

[Mal]

Im not getting involved in your flame war but I just would like to ask if the Anti Vehicle launchers are still in game? If they are do they work?

They're still in the game, but do no additional damage to vehicles. Every time Bob has attempted to raise bombers being over-powered on Discord we've said that AV Launchers need to be sorted out to add more tactical gameplay than just grinding them down with normal weapons.

Bombers are not OP. It's just that not every class has the means to counter them as efficiently as other classes.

[JoshCooper]

...So the guys supporting this are not taking balance into consideration, just for personal gain..

You can't flame anyone for doing that, as you are ignoring the bigger picture. You chose to ignore how easy they are to take down, how they require multiple people, skill, coordination and instead focus only on dmg.

Supporters have said they have to do increased dmg, because of their before mentioned hurdles.

[bobhoskins]

You are missing the bigger picture. The DPS is simply too high and make's weapons obsolete in comparison

[Chazz]

So Bob talking about the bigger Picture , you do know even if you dont like it that Bombers are fun to do pve , rhinos too ?
Ohh and you mentioned my only 3 PvP chars yes i have to use them because i cant log like you an endless stream of chars because you get killed off easy.

All you want that nobody uses them because you just dont like them or cant fly them. that is no reason to nerf something

[bobhoskins]

Something being fun doesn't detract from the point it's not balanced chazz. Put your selfish view points aside and take balance into consideration.. Fun is not the point in hand... The issue is the huge gap in damage between vehicles and weapons... Lol so you comment about me using 3 characters that i used for hacking layers.. And use 3 chars yourself because you died on your first 2 , you are a comedian in disguise :). I would just like to see the vehicles balanced or a suitable counter vs those vehicles as currently you have a competitive advantage using vehicles over weapons and that shouldn't be the case in a game that caters for a pvp community, balance is more important. You guys need to look at the biggest picture rather than selfish opinions fulfilling your preferred play-style currently due to the increased damage. This game needs more clans back, they are less likely to return when the winner of pvp boils to who is using the most vehicles lol.

[Chazz]

Something being fun doesn't detract from the point it's not balanced chazz. Put your selfish view points aside and take balance into consideration.. Lol so you comment about me using 3 characters that i used for hacking layers.. And use 3 chars yourself because you died on your first 2 , you are a comedian in disguise :). I would just like to see the vehicles balanced or a suitable counter vs those vehicles as currently you have a competitive advantage using vehicles over weapons and that shouldn't be the case in a game that caters for a pvp community, balance is more important. You guys need to look at the biggest picture rather than selfish opinions fulfilling your preferred play-style currently due to the increased damage. This game needs more clans back, they are less likely to return when the winner of pvp boils to who is using the most vehicles lol.

So the comedian in disguise is you

[DIS]

No one agrees with you Bob, Rekt and BG are enemies yet we agree on a lot of things including Vhc. You've lost your argument due to your flaming and nonsensical posts.

[bobhoskins]

No one agrees with you Bob, Rekt and BG are enemies yet we agree on a lot of things including Vhc. You've lost your argument due to your flaming and nonsensical posts.

I have seen several clans agree and discuss about this issue both on Discord and in game... One runner returned recently after a 3 month period of inactive and was shocked to see the overpowerd vehicle damage hasn't been addressed yet. But unfortunately most don't comment on here as they are hounded by the guys with selfish opinions just supporting their preferred playstyle.
I have provided valid points why it is not balanced. You have all failed to counter and justify and try clutching at straws in attempt to sideline the awareness i am providing. Currently weapons are obsolete compared with Vehicles, the DPS between the 2 is too far apart... That comes hand in hand with your desperate attempts to avoid the vehicles being balanced as the information is all there.... The guys arguing against the damage being too high here have stated that they dont want it nerfed as they are the only good things left for PVE. So it all boils down to personal gain/benefit "selfish opinions" rather than looking at balance as a whole across the group sets... It's players like this that put off clan's playing when they rally so hard to keep something in game that is really out of line.

[JoshCooper]

Bob all you have done is repeatedly state they do too much damage. Even in doing so you have shown inconsistencies with how much damage they do.

This, along with your general lack of knowledge on how vehicles work, throws your claims of testing into dispute.

Once we know your claims of testing are rubbish, we also have to question your inconsistent accounts of how much damage they actually do.

You then realise that people aren't agreeing so try to discredit them, this isn't going to help your argument seem like a logical one for balance. It turns it into a flame war, from which nothing constructive will come.

We have provided several short comings of vehicles, to which your only reply was that they do too much damage. Completely ignoring the other relevant points which must be taken into account when balancing.

Balance isn't as simple as "make the flashy numbers smaller".

[bobhoskins]

Bob all you have done is repeatedly state they do too much damage. Even in doing so you have shown inconsistencies with how much damage they do.

This, along with your general lack of knowledge on how vehicles work, throws your claims of testing into dispute.

Once we know your claims of testing are rubbish, we also have to question your inconsistent accounts of how much damage they actually do.

You then realise that people aren't agreeing so try to discredit them, this isn't going to help your argument seem like a logical one for balance. It turns it into a flame war, from which nothing constructive will come.

We have provided several short comings of vehicles, to which your only reply was that they do too much damage. Completely ignoring the other relevant points which must be taken into account when balancing.

Balance isn't as simple as "make the flashy numbers smaller".



I've stated enough , not going to waste anymore of my time ... It's players like yourselfs that are a big part of the reason why we have such a small player base when you go out of your way to rally against balance. Real shame that the main active player base now would rather have am unbalanced area of the game for personal gains rather than taking the bigger part of the community into account . Shit we are literally at the worst active population and pvp right now since titans revival in 2012. And we still have players going out of their way to defend areas thay are not balanced. Wow

[JoshCooper]

I've stated enough , not going to waste anymore of my time ... It's players like yourselfs that are a big part of the reason why we have such a small player base when you go out of your way to rally against balance. Real shame that the main active player base now would rather have am unbalanced area of the game for personal gains rather than taking the bigger part of the community into account . Shit we are literally at the worst active population and pvp right now since titans revival in 2012. And we still have players going out of their way to defend areas thay are not balanced. Wow

Again, I invited you to discuss the other points we raised regarding vhc short comings and you turn it into a discredit & flame post. This attitude isn't welcome in balancing a game. You say everyone in this thread is making it personal - yet it is you blaming everyone else for the games demise. It's this attitude which makes you so difficult to reason with.

I've made several well rounded posts showing both sides and providing evidence. Until you provide similar I'm not getting dragged into insulting those who disagree with me.

And incase my view has got lost in the sea of flaming this has become - Vehicles don't require a nerf (see earlier for reasons)

[bobhoskins]

Again, I invited you to discuss the other points we raised regarding vhc short comings and you turn it into a discredit & flame post. This attitude isn't welcome in balancing a game. You say everyone in this thread is making it personal - yet it is you blaming everyone else for the games demise. It's this attitude which makes you so difficult to reason with.

I've made several well rounded posts showing both sides and providing evidence. Until you provide similar I'm not getting dragged into insulting those who disagree with me.

And incase my view has got lost in the sea of flaming this has become - Vehicles don't require a nerf (see earlier for reasons)

Oh I seem to have missed them josh... what shortcomings justify the vehicles having 5x dps than that of any weapon in game? In order to win op fight now = park hoverbomber over enemy if and drop bombs.. anyone syncing up is dead before reaching it out of the synchronizing screen... then park another hoverbomb near adjacent op if there were to try and defend from a close location , and keep dropping bombs , again there all dead before they can even react. It's currently flawed and needs needing

[Mal]

I have seen several clans agree and discuss about this issue both on Discord and in game... One runner returned recently after a 3 month period of inactive and was shocked to see the overpowerd vehicle damage hasn't been addressed yet. But unfortunately most don't comment on here as they are hounded by the guys with selfish opinions just supporting their preferred playstyle.

If they feel so strongly about the issue, then they need to be on here discussing it. Otherwise, they're like Schrodinger's Cat. We neither know if they do, or do not, support Vehicles, therefore their opinion doesn't exist.

[bobhoskins]

If they feel so strongly about the issue, then they need to be on here discussing it. Otherwise, they're like Schrodinger's Cat. We neither know if they do, or do not, support Vehicles, therefore their opinion doesn't exist.

Quote:
M4rK - 06/04/2017
wow... vhc still op... gj nst.

Another quote:

Prototype - Yesterday at 1:44 PM
Idk who came up with this idea to make these vehicle dmg changes...
Prototype - Yesterday at 1:45 PM
Trike is like 900 dmg on warbot
shooting a rocket about every second

Prototype - Yesterday at 1:45 PM
My woc rifle deals like 150 dmg with one salve

Prototype - Yesterday at 1:51 PM
I could be wrong but vehicles never were a thing in PvP. People just using them now because their dmg is way over the top(edited)

[Mal]

Are we posting Discord comments, rather than getting people to come and make their case? M4rk doesn't play, and Prototype was talking about using vehicles in PVE.

And neither of these quotes, which are provided without any context, and do not include the counter comments they prompted on Discord, are the same as having them here discussing their thoughts and offering suggestions for change.

I actively invite anyone who's able to demonstrate logic to come and post their thoughts.

[bobhoskins]

Your only argument for the current vehicle damage = Because it is fun.. wake up son lol
Balance should always be most important when addressing area's of combat.

Regarding Prototypes comment that's to provide a reference of how it is behaving, weapons have similar effect regarding damage in PVP & PVE. That scenario was just shedding light on the situation in reference to statements i made earlier about the DPS on vehicles compared to weapons.

[Bifrost]

Ok the quality of this thread has degraded and some people may want to read their PM's again about flaming.

The discussion of hoverbomber in PvP came up for an internal discussion a few weeks ago with myself, Aegir and other members of the Balance team, and the balance team are satisfied with the balance of the hoverbomber in PvP, when you consider the cost of the vehicle, the skill required to pilot the bomber and also co-ordination required to fly and bomb. In other words balance is just not a pure numbers game.

The NST have been observing the fights in action and also the video's posted here and on discord. Plenty of points (And video's) have been made here on counter-tactics so it's clear they are not invincible these bombers.

As stated earlier, the balance team are satisfied with the balance of the hoverbomber (And other vehicles) at this time. No doubt the balance will re-visit vehicles and will seek players views in the balance forum in the future.

Thank you for your input.