Adjusting Kami drones

[theRaeisBae]

I eat kamis on a daily basis and would hardly call it PvP.



Too much damage done per hit (Can one shot a tank with 1000HP+)
Flies too fast, creates de-sync with the server and even the kill log can't keep up (killed by (null)!)
Cannot be destroyed as it can heal indefinitely
Its HP pool is way too high
DEX: 93 WPW: 80 RCL: 111 - Can be used literally without any implants, death isn't punishing and neither is bad SL.
Low TL version does almost the same amount of damage, has ridiculously low requirements




Bottom line, they promote bad gameplay mechanics overall and deserve to be dumbed down and in line with the new 2.3 meta

[Odimara Orca]

I eat kamis on a daily basis and would hardly call it PvP.



Too much damage done per hit (Can one shot a tank with 1000HP+)
Flies too fast, creates de-sync with the server and even the kill log can't keep up (killed by (null)!)
Cannot be destroyed as it can heal indefinitely
Its HP pool is way too high
DEX: 93 WPW: 80 RCL: 111 - Can be used literally without any implants, death isn't punishing and neither is bad SL.
Low TL version does almost the same amount of damage, has ridiculously low requirements




Bottom line, they promote bad gameplay mechanics overall and deserve to be dumbed down and in line with the new 2.3 meta

What if somebody is PPU shielded? They still have to be useful in OPfights.

If the damage will go through shields I accept them beeing nerfed.

They should be a viable finisher if somebody is around 50% HP.

[theRaeisBae]

What if somebody is PPU shielded? They still have to be useful in OPfights.

If the damage will go through shields I accept them beeing nerfed.

They should be a viable finisher if somebody is around 50% HP.

Yes, PPU shielded people can take 2 hits. Great. if you got a duo of droners, you get one shotted with support.

There are no penalties to kami droning. If bringing OP fights into the mix, they are still way too overpowered. And talking about balance, I think a drone that droners should be using in OP fights is the Raptor, or harassing with the PN or the Mosquito, but two shotting people, yeah...Honestly, I'd like to see the kami drone become a massive debuffing drone to AoE strip shields for example, I think it would be a great mechanic in outpost fighting, and you could still drone for damage with PN and Mosquito. More variety!

[Odimara Orca]

Yes, PPU shielded people can take 2 hits. Great. if you got a duo of droners, you get one shotted with support.

There are no penalties to kami droning. If bringing OP fights into the mix, they are still way too overpowered. And talking about balance, I think a drone that droners should be using in OP fights is the Raptor, or harassing with the PN or the Mosquito, but two shotting people, yeah...Honestly, I'd like to see the kami drone become a massive debuffing drone to AoE strip shields for example, I think it would be a great mechanic in outpost fighting, and you could still drone for damage with PN and Mosquito. More variety!

Then make it 500 Damage through shields.

No do not change them to much, they are needed for droners to be effective and one of the funniest way to kill somebody in the game.

If you change that, the other drones need to become way stronger than they currently are.

Maybe a harsher SI malus would help?

[Drake6k]

This thread exists because I kill a lot of people with kamis.

Kamis can't even almost 1 shot a tank. My kamis do about 28% hp to a capped tank, 48% to spys, 38% to PEs, and monks it depends on shields. They require a lot of cooperation to get kills or sneaking up on fights that are already taking place. I kill my own team about 25% of the time too. If I kami a 60% hp tank they will just run into a safe zone.

I wanna see more kami droners getting consistent kills before people cry for nerfs. If Kamis are OP and take no skill, why are so few people using them? We've got plenty of dev tanks and hybrids; people do play the flavor of the week. Where are the other kami droners? There are a few others, but they usually have shit K/D ratios.

[theRaeisBae]

This thread exists because I kill a lot of people with kamis.

Kamis can't even almost 1 shot a tank. My kamis do about 28% hp to a capped tank, 48% to spys, 38% to PEs, and monks it depends on shields. They require a lot of cooperation to get kills or sneaking up on fights that are already taking place. I kill my own team about 25% of the time too. If I kami a 60% hp tank they will just run into a safe zone.

I wanna see more kami droners getting consistent kills before people cry for nerfs. If Kamis are OP and take no skill, why are so few people using them? We've got plenty of dev tanks and hybrids; people do play the flavor of the week. Where are the other kami droners? There are a few others, but they usually have shit K/D ratios.

Your ego is exploding, that's great. You are talking about your store bought KK-400 used on a sub-par PE. I'm talking about massive damage output on a capped spy with shit loads of Remote Control. It's not fun to kami, I don't do it because I like to fight. If having an item that can be remotely controlled and one shotting everyone, most of the time whilst being invisible and invincible.

They are too easy to use, way too strong compared to other weaponry, bugged as hell and make no sense and completely destroy other use of drones.

And yes, on top of that when you get a fight, you just die from a single shot. That does not really prompt people into fighting. I don't die a lot from you though, but for a DEX 67 item it's still way too powerful. It's cool if you are a humble PE with a hybrid setups, but again: you can use a one shot weapon without any implant.

[M4rK]

Resolution: SI on explosion like any other drone :)

[theRaeisBae]

Resolution: SI on explosion like any other drone :)

It wouldn't really fix anything, even with say 10% SI spies could still stealth easily. The initial blow is usually lethal as well. With that solution we are also left with the desync issues still, and how resistant the drone itself is, as well as the ridiculously low requirements to use them

[Odimara Orca]

Then give it a T-C malus. Not like I'll get caught anyways even without the Stealth tool ;-).

As I already said. Kami should be a viable finisher for somebody around 50%. How this is implemented, I don't care. But it should still work on shielded enemies. If you want to nerf them further we need a big buff to Combat drones.

You could increase SI to around 15% and increase revenge TL to 115 to at least stop the spamming.

I don't care about the damage of the lower TL ones though.

[Odimara Orca]

Also it IS fun to kami.

Your tasty tears in here prove it!

[DIS]

Yes they do a good amount of damage, but no they cannot kill you in a single shot... you cannot just use a kami to take down a player, they already have to be less that 50% HP and that is not always a guarantee for a kill.
If you find the droner then hes toast, whats the point in having a droner who sets off an explosive charge if he cannot do any significant damage to other players, seeing as he is putting himself at risk.
As Jack said a lot of players die to his drones due to co-ordination, planning and teamwork, and 1 in 4 kamis he will kill his team mates, but thats part of the risk.

I could complain about the new instant heal that PPU's now use, have you ever tried to take a tank down which is constantly being insta healed all the time? A well placed Kami sorts that out.

In Pepper they are more dangerous due to the size of the zone, try using KK400's in an outpost, the range of them is pretty low so the droner will be vulnerable. Only spy's can do it properly but they are weak if you find them so it's not difficult to dispatch them.

I could sit at the top of pepper 1 on my Tank and watch you fight, then when you are all low on HP I could fire a warhammer at you, it will have a similar effect as the kami.

Edit: @theRaeisBae I also like the way you mention Jack has a sub par PE, the funny thing is because he is a PE he doesn't die like the average spy and I am pretty sure he's took you out a fair few times - just saying.

[theRaeisBae]

Yes they do a good amount of damage, but no they cannot kill you in a single shot... you cannot just use a kami to take down a player, they already have to be less that 50% HP and that is not always a guarantee for a kill.
If you find the droner then hes toast, whats the point in having a droner who sets off an explosive charge if he cannot do any significant damage to other players, seeing as he is putting himself at risk.
As Jack said a lot of players die to his drones due to co-ordination, planning and teamwork, and 1 in 4 kamis he will kill his team mates, but thats part of the risk.

I could complain about the new instant heal that PPU's now use, have you ever tried to take a tank down which is constantly being insta healed all the time? A well placed Kami sorts that out.

In Pepper they are more dangerous due to the size of the zone, try using KK400's in an outpost, the range of them is pretty low so the droner will be vulnerable. Only spy's can do it properly but they are weak if you find them so it's not difficult to dispatch them.

I could sit at the top of pepper 1 on my Tank and watch you fight, then when you are all low on HP I could fire a warhammer at you, it will have a similar effect as the kami.

Edit: @theRaeisBae I also like the way you mention Jack has a sub par PE, the funny thing is because he is a PE he doesn't die like the average spy and I am pretty sure he's took you out a fair few times - just saying.

Look, this thread is inevitably going to turn into a "lol I'm better than you" contest. As for Jack, he's pretty predictable with his droner, cares about his SL, and play a well-balanced around PE.

If you did coordinated droning, then you would have two full rigger spies blowing their revenges at the same position at the same time. That's what good droners do, and doing that kills anything, PPU fully buffed included. Sure it annoys me when I'm fighting then get blown up, but even more so when I'm at full health. And trust me, that can happen (and I have 90 PRC and 80 FIR on my tank setup).

1) Stating you put yourself at risk: No. Just no. You are hiding at the other far side of the map, and launching drones from there non-stop. Since the 2.3 meta, people take way more time to take down than before, thus the droner has a very easy time just stealthing away. Not to mention he doesn't need to chain them, 1 is usually enough to re-switch position in an OP fight and realistically deal massive amount of damage

2) The drone balance: it doesn't exist, because even with a poorly set up PE droning KK-400 it still deals massive amount of damage. Mind you the drones are dex 67, try a pistol or a rifle at that level. Who uses PN/Raptor or Mosquito? No one. Why? Because Revenge's damage is so ridiculous that is basically cancels the use of other drones (and good utility like anti-heal).


oh and please, try to go past your ego and see the big picture. I got a droner, it's not like it's hard to click your mouse once and kill everyone.

[DIS]

Look, this thread is inevitably going to turn into a "lol I'm better than you" contest. As for Jack, he's pretty predictable with his droner, cares about his SL, and play a well-balanced around PE.

If you did coordinated droning, then you would have two full rigger spies blowing their revenges at the same position at the same time. That's what good droners do, and doing that kills anything, PPU fully buffed included. Sure it annoys me when I'm fighting then get blown up, but even more so when I'm at full health. And trust me, that can happen (and I have 90 PRC and 80 FIR on my tank setup).

1) Stating you put yourself at risk: No. Just no. You are hiding at the other far side of the map, and launching drones from there non-stop. Since the 2.3 meta, people take way more time to take down than before, thus the droner has a very easy time just stealthing away. Not to mention he doesn't need to chain them, 1 is usually enough to re-switch position in an OP fight and realistically deal massive amount of damage

2) The drone balance: it doesn't exist, because even with a poorly set up PE droning KK-400 it still deals massive amount of damage. Mind you the drones are dex 67, try a pistol or a rifle at that level. Who uses PN/Raptor or Mosquito? No one. Why? Because Revenge's damage is so ridiculous that is basically cancels the use of other drones (and good utility like anti-heal).


oh and please, try to go past your ego and see the big picture. I got a droner, it's not like it's hard to click your mouse once and kill everyone.

We don't have two droners, we have one droner, all co-ordination happens when a player either tries to res or zone whores and comes back with ppu buffs, so we bring out the droner to counter that and it works pretty well, no need for two droners in PP, we are not taking an OP.

1) Yes droners are putting themselves at risk, I have killed other droners in PP and they are very easy to deal with, Jacks droner can shelf buff like any other PE, he is a powerful droner in a small area if he is not found quickly. KK400's have a very limited range, and are hard to use at range on anything other than a spy.

2) It's a one time use explosion, if it killed players at high health I would agree, but it doesn't come close. Other drones are pointless in PP, Kami's are quick and do the job they are designed to.

No ego here, just stating facts.

[theRaeisBae]

We don't have two droners, we have one droner, all co-ordination happens when a player either tries to res or zone whores and comes back with ppu buffs, so we bring out the droner to counter that and it works pretty well, no need for two droners in PP, we are not taking an OP.

1) Yes droners are putting themselves at risk, I have killed other droners in PP and they are very easy to deal with, Jacks droner can shelf buff like any other PE, he is a powerful droner in a small area if he is not found quickly. KK400's have a very limited range, and are hard to use at range on anything other than a spy.

2) It's a one time use explosion, if it killed players at high health I would agree, but it doesn't come close. Other drones are pointless in PP, Kami's are quick and do the job they are designed to.

No ego here, just stating facts.

Again, you are talking about your point of view from a PE that uses mid-DEX drones. i'm not saying that you are using two kami droners, and whilst it's still very powerful, Jack usually does kami droning near the sync, so there is no killing him. And yes, a Revenge can one shot a tank with full health.


But I'm not here to settle score or make it all about your kami droner, I'm here to talk about a completely broken game mechanic that has brought other drones to their knees. Because yes, something that flies to me at god-speed and has the potential to one-shoot me with no implant requirements (creating crazy desyncs) is what I call unbalanced.

[JoshCooper]

something that flies to me at god-speed and has the potential to one-shoot me with no implant requirements (creating crazy desyncs) is what I call unbalanced.

Exaggerating isn't going to help balance, low TL drones (those not requiring any imps) are not going to one-shot anyone.

There's always a trade between more dmg / more speed / whatever else.
If a player is using low TL drones they won't do as much dmg but will have more sustain to get away. If a spy is maxing his dmg for his revenges aiming for 1 shots then he will die before he has chance to esc his drone.

If a low TL drone is able to kill you in one drone I'd argue you had lost the fight already anyway.

[theRaeisBae]

Exaggerating isn't going to help balance, low TL drones (those not requiring any imps) are not going to one-shot anyone.

There's always a trade between more dmg / more speed / whatever else.
If a player is using low TL drones they won't do as much dmg but will have more sustain to get away. If a spy is maxing his dmg for his revenges aiming for 1 shots then he will die before he has chance to esc his drone.

If a low TL drone is able to kill you in one drone I'd argue you had lost the fight already anyway.

I was mentioning Revenges, KK-400 obviously doesn't have the potential to deal that much damage, but it can still take out 600-700hp. We are talking about a DEX 63 item here. I would have loved to see drones be more tactical, as I have mentioned, people only use kamis to blow their opponents and very often in only one hits even at full health without the slight possibility for the people to see it coming as they are often lagging out due to their high speed

[Drake6k]

There's always a trade between more dmg / more speed / whatever else.
If a player is using low TL drones they won't do as much dmg but will have more sustain to get away. If a spy is maxing his dmg for his revenges aiming for 1 shots then he will die before he has chance to esc his drone.
I agree.

Spys can't afford to hide near the action cause they'll die too quick if they get found. Spys usually hide far away and there are only so many hiding spots in Pepper Park. They shine in the wastelands and with stealth. Revenge is fast, yeah, but since they're probably hiding so far away it makes sense. The KK400 is slow as fuck and has terrible range.

I've only seen a few people using revenges and I've never been killed by one. I would like to see one kill a full health capped tank, but I'm skeptical. I shall test it tomorrow.

[wargolem]

What if somebody is PPU shielded? They still have to be useful in OPfights.


Why do they have to be useful in op fights?

Is a construction tool useful in an op fight? no its not, everything has a purpose, this game would not be much different if Kami drones were gone all together, they have always been a bad idea.

[Odimara Orca]

Why do they have to be useful in op fights?

Is a construction tool useful in an op fight? no its not, everything has a purpose, this game would not be much different if Kami drones were gone all together, they have always been a bad idea.

That's a dumb comparsion. Const Tool is for a Tradeskill, Drones are for Combat.

If they up the other drones a bit and add new ones for a more variable playstyle i don't have a problem.