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View Full Version : Patch R#199-T#245, Release Candidate 2!



Baldur
02-11-16, 00:24
We have just patched the PTS (Vedeena).

This patch includes the following changes as suggested in this thread (https://forum.neocron-game.com/showthread.php?156668-R-199-T-239-240-amp-241-Patch-Notes):


Mobspawn should now be more spreaded over the whole sectors so that there are now more mission related mobs and they should be easier to find (AMC5 and Strange Cave)

all starter weapons (TL2 and TL3) have been added to one of the Nomadtraders

money rewards have been increased for the new tutorial missions. Runners should now easily be able to afford all related items and also the GenReplicator fee.

a hint has been added to the missiondialogue where players can get "Solantium" from (blue boxes)





After the changes, should the snakes not only be in the cave, so the information window popup can be read by new people?
Im not sure if Tasha sends you into the cave or not.


The snakes are supposed to be in and outside of the cave. The info popup triggers when the runner gets close to the NPC.



After MC5 I went to do sewer missions and that experience was still bad. Small spider vs Spider? Black roach, roach, radiated roach? I hope noobs missions get simplified soon, so they give a bit more money and the mobs are easier to find. Could increase spawns in sewers too.


We are already working on the experience new runners have once they leave AMC5 but this will be part of a future patch. :)

On a side note: It is really worth visiting the 3 (new) shops in front of the NCPD-HQ in Via Rosso 3 now ;)

Sophie
02-11-16, 01:10
We have just patched the PTS (Vedeena).
The snakes are supposed to be in and outside of the cave. The info popup triggers when the runner gets close to the NPC.

Yes, she says "Strange Cave or area around me". My fault, sorry. :)

New Char creation working again.

Ivan Eres
02-11-16, 17:56
Thank you guys so much for the hard work and the great patches !!! Great stuff !

Dasore
03-11-16, 00:23
First short test we did so far and what we found:

-Insant heal not working when heal is running?
-Way too much xp and not enough money when leveling later. (one of the rare barrels in chaos caves gives you like 10k cash but over 1 mil psi xp, but also only 70k int)
-Mob dmg is a bit high, 4 shots on a monk in chaos caves and he is dead.
-Mob hp to high or runner dmg way to low. 91% on a ravager and after 7 reloads the grim chaser has lost 10% hp

Tests ll continue tomorrow

Drake6k
03-11-16, 01:01
I can't make a new character at the moment. I keep getting the name is already taken.

Sophie
03-11-16, 02:05
I can't make a new character at the moment. I keep getting the name is already taken.

I was told this is a known issue, sadly.

Btw.

I made a Tank for testing vehicles.

In short, they are all pretty useless in PvE.

I tested the following vehicles:
- Combat Chaincraft V1.2
- Combat Hovertec V1.2
- Reveler Next Epic
- Heavy Assault Scorpion Trike V.2
- Rhino V.2

My Tank had 30 WEP and 220 HC (75 HCK).

I managed to kill a 80/80 WB with Rhino with only 50% HP left of the Rhino!

The old WB-hunting vehicle Heavy Assault Scorpion Trike is useless (Rockets). The WB kills you in your seat.

The other three, I put them against cyclops, hurlers and all the little mobs at MB.
Yes, you can kill stuff with them, but nothing what you would expect. For all the requirements every normal weapon does a better job.

So maybe the vehicles are not part of the balancing process at the moment.
Best use them to get from A to B, but not for fighting.

Oh, and please remove SI from taking LoM-pills.

Sophie
03-11-16, 23:47
A few things:

- Warbots often get stuck on upward slopes, jiggling helpless.
They did this to a small amount in the past, but not to this extent making it easy to score headshots and avoid all damage.
12644

- Maybe I was just lucky, but every WB had a tech part so far.

- Fusion Cannon hit effect is extremly blinding, much more than before.

Drake6k
03-11-16, 23:52
The dialogue with Ezra Reid in MC5 is making me cringe. "You don't look like Tom Cruise standing next to your crashed glider." and "You really called Ezra Reid? Not related to Jeremy Clarkson?" Seriously? The year is 2786 and the only way anyone would even know who those people were would be from the Ceres discs. I read the whole NC history again recently so I've turned into a bit of a lore nerd. While I'm at it, I still wanna know what happened on Irata III!

Also, found a minor bug with his dialogue. It randomly chooses 2-3 things you can say and sometimes it chooses the same option twice. http://imgur.com/a/o2SEp

bmurph101
04-11-16, 04:16
Look, I get that shooting legs out from under people "was" a huge part of NC in the past. But it's not a good mechanic for the current population, particularly because SOAD is the only group that consistently plays. Not being able to have a chance to get away because they not only zerged you, but because they just zerged your feet, isn't a good mechanic. I'm sorry. It just isn't. And it feels like the overwhelming majority of people who actively PvP aren't in favor of it.

On another note, I feel as though zoning while in combat should be blocked. Make it so when you take damage from another player, a debuff is applied to you that disables you from zoning for 15 seconds. Every time you take damage, the buff is reapplied (not stacked). Will make positioning and map awareness more integral, make combat more scary, and less about "let me make sure there's a door I can zone through if the fight goes South"

Drake6k
04-11-16, 05:41
On another note, I feel as though zoning while in combat should be blocked. Make it so when you take damage from another player, a debuff is applied to you that disables you from zoning for 15 seconds. Every time you take damage, the buff is reapplied (not stacked). Will make positioning and map awareness more integral, make combat more scary, and less about "let me make sure there's a door I can zone through if the fight goes South"
I think a simple solution to zone whoring would be just making all the PP clubs, bum asylum, and maybe even faction HQs into not safezones.

I'm glad you're on so much Bmurph and I'm getting jealous of those pvp videos that I'm not in. I've been focusing on the test server recently, but I'm missing Titan. Sadly a lot of my clan has gone inactive recently, especially the UK guys. The US/Canada population is pretty small (I'm in Florida), but I'm hoping we get a revival with the patch. Funny that SOAD is active now. The times, they are a changin'.

If we were having a vote on "broken legs," I would vote against it. I do think it's fair with fall damage, but in pvp it becomes an obligation. We did have a discussion recently in another thread on the issue and it seems most people are in favor of breakable legs. Once it goes live, then the real scrutiny will happen.

bmurph101
04-11-16, 08:03
I think a simple solution to zone whoring would be just making all the PP clubs, bum asylum, and maybe even faction HQs into not safezones.

I do agree that safezones should be done away with, but most people in NC don't share that same sentiment. Even if the change was made, zone whoring still is a massive issue because it is so dependent on rig and internet connection. Someone with a stronger rig and/or better connection will ALWAYS be able to swing fights heavily in their favor. Not that ehse things aren't a factor in "ordinary" PvP, but they are even more prevalent when load screens are heavily involved.

I'm glad you're on so much Bmurph and I'm getting jealous of those pvp videos that I'm not in. I've been focusing on the test server recently, but I'm missing Titan. Sadly a lot of my clan has gone inactive recently, especially the UK guys. The US/Canada population is pretty small (I'm in Florida), but I'm hoping we get a revival with the patch. Funny that SOAD is active now. The times, they are a changin'.

I've been happy to be back. I seem to be inspiring PvP by even less enthusiastic PvP players, if nothing else just dueling guys who would ordinarily stand in P1 or sit and level somewhere. It's tough with the population swings (but holy cow we hit 73 people I think on Halloween, and it was NUTS!!!) but I haven't had a day yet since I've come back that I haven't gotten some fights in. I think small scale PvP is actually pretty healthy.

If we were having a vote on "broken legs," I would vote against it. I do think it's fair with fall damage, but in pvp it becomes an obligation. We did have a discussion recently in another thread on the issue and it seems most people are in favor of breakable legs. Once it goes live, then the real scrutiny will happen.

I guess we will see. All I know is you, all of GP, Kava, and myself seem to be against it (at least without a counter-play). I don't know SOAD's feelings because quite frankly all I do is fight them, and my German is not nearly good enough to hold an in depth conversation with them.




Responses in red

Sophie
04-11-16, 10:13
I think broken legs and freezers are a mechanic for griefers so their victims cant run away or fight back properly.

Real PvP people dont need that mechanic at all for OP fights or duels.

If those real PvP guys needs broken legs and freezers, then there is an overall flaw in a too high runspeed.

Imho, this is a design problem.

If you remove brogen legs and freezer weapons and then lower runspeed, you just lose "skill" to draw a freezer weapon and shoot it in time or hit the legs first.

I dont know if the NST people want this kind of mechanic or not and see it as an integral part of neocron.

Zoltan
04-11-16, 20:06
I dont know if the NST people want this kind of mechanic or not and see it as an integral part of neocron.

It was an integral part of Neocron, yes and accidentally got removed by - don't laught - a bug.
Let's see and give it a try again we always do have the option to remove it again :)

bmurph101
04-11-16, 22:16
I think broken legs and freezers are a mechanic for griefers so their victims cant run away or fight back properly.

Real PvP people dont need that mechanic at all for OP fights or duels.

.

I agree m8


It was an integral part of Neocron, yes and accidentally got removed by - don't laught - a bug.
Let's see and give it a try again we always do have the option to remove it again :)

If this is your approach to it, then I have no problem implementing it to see where it goes I suppose.

Celt
05-11-16, 15:59
What's the inherent problem with being able to lower runspeed by using specific weapons and targeting specific body parts?

I'm instantly wary of people who use phrases like "real pvp doesn't need it" as the only real justification against bringing back what at one stage was a fairly important mechanic in Neocron.

Drake6k
05-11-16, 22:37
I was on Vedeena fighting fire mobs in F13 and found the mobs to have too much health. Is this intended? As soon as this patch comes out everyone is going to want to farm techs and with mobs having so much health now people are going to be pissed.

Edit: My pistol booster 1 still has decimals.

bmurph101
06-11-16, 01:53
What's the inherent problem with being able to lower runspeed by using specific weapons and targeting specific body parts?

I'm instantly wary of people who use phrases like "real pvp doesn't need it" as the only real justification against bringing back what at one stage was a fairly important mechanic in Neocron.

Here are my responses, from an earlier thread


The fact that you have to aim in Neocron already allows more skilled players to beat less skilled ones.

It only adds tactics if there is a way to instantly heal your legs back to full health status, making it so disabling legs allows for 1-2 easier shots before your opponent (provided they know what they're doing) is moving back to full tilt.

If there's no way to regen your legs instantly then the only "tactic" for PvP is who disables the legs first. It also hamstrings melee even more than it already is, as getting disabled in its current state means the melee player has instantly lost, whereas a ranged player can at least still out-aim his opponent and prevail.

Pro-tip: Anything that slows down PvP is almost always a bad thing. Bob is right; in its current state, it should be removed. If they added some ability/item to regen your legs at an abnormal rate, then I'd be all for it. But yeah, its current state is bad. It not being present on Titan makes PvP infinitely more fun.


I get what you're coming from, and again, I'm not against legs being allowed to be 'disabled' provided there is counter play for it. I'm sure the crippling of legs was a huge deal in NC1 when you had hundreds/thousands of people playing the game and fights were constantly full of people. But let's be real, even the OP fights we have with the current population are at best 'small scale' (10 vs 10 would be a HUGE OP fight by the current pop standards).

If we break it down to the most simplistic terms we have:

Player Movement: Rock
Ability to Cripple Player Movement: Paper
Ability to regain movement: Scissors

If you only implement Rock and Paper, then you have a fundamentally broken system, wherein one will always trump the other. It means nothing to have good movement (which in any game, particularly games that require aiming is an invaluable skill) if that movement can be taken away by someone with good aim.

It also hurts the viability of a majority of players, as the only skill that will be valuable is the skill to aim (which most people don't have razor sharp aim), whereas before, players with superior movement/positioning and average aim could beat players that only had average movement/positioning and superior aim.

It doesn't need to be something ground-breaking to do it. It can be something as simple as making the Nanite Injector instantly revive all limbs upon use, effectively making it so that your good aim forces your opponent into making a decision:

1)Swap to nanite injector to regain movement, thus losing out on potential DPS instantly but regaining movement and prolonging the fight
2)Choose to forgo movement (usually would happen if the fight was very close and both fighters were almost dead) and choose instead to opt for potential DPS

Celt
06-11-16, 04:31
The fact that you have to aim in Neocron already allows more skilled players to beat less skilled ones.
You assume that skill only relates to ability to aim. Aiming skill relates to ability to aim, Neocron has (had) many systems that made pure ability to aim not the only skill necessary in order to PVP effectively.



It only adds tactics if there is a way to instantly heal your legs back to full health status, making it so disabling legs allows for 1-2 easier shots before your opponent (provided they know what they're doing) is moving back to full tilt.


If there's no way to regen your legs instantly then the only "tactic" for PvP is who disables the legs first. It also hamstrings melee even more than it already is, as getting disabled in its current state means the melee player has instantly lost, whereas a ranged player can at least still out-aim his opponent and prevail.

I played when freezing/crippling worked correctly. You are 100% wrong in your assumption that working movement impairment reduces PVP to 'who cripples who first wins'. The rest is your lack of imagination in foreseeing how adding another (correctly balanced) tactic actually makes PVP more complex, dynamic and unstable.



Pro-tip: Anything that slows down PvP is almost always a bad thing.
Pro-tip: People who speak in absolutes tend to not be able to offer pro-tips ;)



I get what you're coming from, and again, I'm not against legs being allowed to be 'disabled' provided there is counter play for it. I'm sure the crippling of legs was a huge deal in NC1 when you had hundreds/thousands of people playing the game and fights were constantly full of people. But let's be real, even the OP fights we have with the current population are at best 'small scale' (10 vs 10 would be a HUGE OP fight by the current pop standards).

Again you show your lack of imagination. Freezing was used less the bigger the fight was, it was more useful in small engagements. I remember using freezing/crippling most on enemy monks performing hit and run attacks before running to heal/buff and re-engage. As a HC tank, while I could out-DPS my enemies, I was much slower while doing so.


If we break it down to the most simplistic terms we have:


Player Movement: Rock
Ability to Cripple Player Movement: Paper
Ability to regain movement: Scissors


Don't use flawed analogies, they only ruin whatever point you're trying to make. In this case, how does rock beat scissors? :roll:


If you only implement Rock and Paper, then you have a fundamentally broken system, wherein one will always trump the other. It means nothing to have good movement (which in any game, particularly games that require aiming is an invaluable skill) if that movement can be taken away by someone with good aim.
More lack of imagination. Why aren't you including movement speed, aim speed and particularly how movement speed+aim speed interact? Oh, because it would ruin your point!


It also hurts the viability of a majority of players, as the only skill that will be valuable is the skill to aim (which most people don't have razor sharp aim), whereas before, players with superior movement/positioning and average aim could beat players that only had average movement/positioning and superior aim.
More lack of imagination. Neocron is not, never was and never can be a pure aiming skill based shooter. Indeed, I'm aware of very few people who ever did want it to be.

bmurph101
06-11-16, 10:21
You assume that skill only relates to ability to aim. Aiming skill relates to ability to aim, Neocron has (had) many systems that made pure ability to aim not the only skill necessary in order to PVP effectively.

No, I don't make that assumption at all. You lack the IQ possible to understand what I"m saying. Player movement, aiming, stat management, and spatial awareness all fall under what would be categorized as "skill". The difference is, with leg crippling being re-introduced, and with a lack of counter play, aiming will inherently be far more valuable than any other skill, as out-aiming your opponent initially and crippling his legs will render him unable to move(thus impairing movement) limit his ability to use his environment to defeat you (spatial awareness) and completely negate any stat management because he'll be a sitting duck.

With crippling legs, it no longer is an Aim/movement/stat management/spatial awareness game, it becomes simply Aim> every other skill


I played when freezing/crippling worked correctly. You are 100% wrong in your assumption that working movement impairment reduces PVP to 'who cripples who first wins'. The rest is your lack of imagination in foreseeing how adding another (correctly balanced) tactic actually makes PVP more complex, dynamic and unstable.

Please, explain another correctly balanced tactic that allows for more complex, dynamic, and "unstable" (lmfao) PvP. Crippling and freezing are garbage tactics in any game where part of the "skill" set (see above) relies on players actively having to apply damage and actively having to avoid it. Freezing/crippling your opponent, with ZERO counter to it, instantly renders almost all "skills" ineffective, because you cannot use said skills to your advantage any more.

Pro-tip: People who speak in absolutes tend to not be able to offer pro-tips ;)

Pro-tip: Don't trash talk absolutes, then make an absolute of your own. Gso.


Again you show your lack of imagination. Freezing was used less the bigger the fight was, it was more useful in small engagements. I remember using freezing/crippling most on enemy monks performing hit and run attacks before running to heal/buff and re-engage. As a HC tank, while I could out-DPS my enemies, I was much slower while doing so.

You simply just prove my point here. You cripple the legs of the enemy monk. There is nothing the monk can do to counter said "crippling" effect. You walk away briefly, then come back and smoke him because he has no retaliation techniques that will save him. He can't move quick enough to stat back up, hide away from you, or even out damage you at this point, because he's an almost stationary target and you're moving full tilt.

Thanks for making my job easy and dunking yourself in the same post. Never seen that one before.

Don't use flawed analogies, they only ruin whatever point you're trying to make. In this case, how does rock beat scissors? :roll:

Fight starts

Player A uses Paper (Crippling legs) to disable Player B's Rock (Movement)

Player B uses Scissors (Nanite tool) to counter A's Paper (Crippling legs)

Player A uses Rock (Movement) to counter B's scissors (Nanite tool); I'm not sure if you've played the game, but punishing someone with your movement/positioning when they decide to stat is absolutely a hard counter.

So, again, dunking yourself. lol.

More lack of imagination. Why aren't you including movement speed, aim speed and particularly how movement speed+aim speed interact? Oh, because it would ruin your point!

Again, these are all part of my ACTUAL point. If you possessed the reading comprehension available to process it, you'd understand that the system I'm advocating for balances these required "skills" far more than the one you're fighting for, where pure aim is head and shoulders more valuable than all the others combined.


More lack of imagination. Neocron is not, never was and never can be a pure aiming skill based shooter. Indeed, I'm aware of very few people who ever did want it to be.

For someone who claims that I am unimaginative, you clearly possess a vast, inadequate understanding of what makes a balanced, yet skillful game. The system you're vehemently advocating for is closer to a "pure, aiming skilled shooter" than the system I am proposing.

Responses in red. If you're going to come at me like that, you better present some ACTUAL good points.

Dasore
06-11-16, 11:32
Got freezed in pvp? Use a fucking antifreezdrug like we did it 10 years ago...
damn casuals
Broken legs shouldnt slow you down too much, but a bit is okay. Shouldnt there be some kind of leg enforcement that reduceses the malus?

Dasore
06-11-16, 17:55
Any news on Patch 246? What changes?

bmurph101
06-11-16, 21:08
Got freezed in pvp? Use a fucking antifreezdrug like we did it 10 years ago...
damn casuals


Idgaf what you did 10 years ago. It was a shit mechanic then. 10 years and an obscenely low population made it even more shit.

Take off the rose tinted nostalgia shades.

William Antrim
08-11-16, 12:23
We didnt have anti freeze drugs until NC2 if I recall, we DID have tanks whipping out freezer cannons before ganking everyone in 2003 and we also had a community wide backlash against it to the point that freezer weaponry of ALL kinds were pretty much uniformly nerfed into the floor.

Then we had holy parashock and we even had a forum-wide campaign to remove the "blue glue". It was hated by large portions of the community who actively played back then.

I am in the remove para/freeze/any kind of movement slowing drug and bring back a fairly stable runspeed cap. We had a runspeed cap in nc1 and we knew what it was. It was slow enough that MOST players didnt need to slow people down so freezer guns were only used by cheap ass clans in gank teams - the same as it is today by the sound of it. Freeze weapons are universally used as cheap tactics to get the drop on an opponent in my experience, they werent ever really used in any of the op fights i went to because the people I played with abhorred them. We loathed blue glue to the point that mostly we just wouldnt bother with it. If it was needed it was due to the insane clipping mechanics NC2 brought and the removal of said runspeed cap.

These are my opinions and my memories, they are not necessarily facts. I remember a time when your resist set up meant that you could survive a gank attempt, not how many fucking anti para drugs you could spam.

Doc Holliday
09-11-16, 04:04
I hate the leg breaking thing. always have. always will. stuns snares and slows arent, in my eyes, a necessary part of neocron. had this conversation a thousand times with a thousand people.

I vote make neocron great again (with no leg breaking)

Ps. will. 10 years ago was 2006. we were in the throes of nc2 by then. antifreeze drugs were a thing. :)

bobhoskins
09-11-16, 11:39
I hate the leg breaking thing. always have. always will. stuns snares and slows arent, in my eyes, a necessary part of neocron. had this conversation a thousand times with a thousand people.

I vote make neocron great again (with no leg breaking)

Ps. will. 10 years ago was 2006. we were in the throes of nc2 by then. antifreeze drugs were a thing. :)



Hear hear!

See below the results from a past vote around this topic area.

113 Votes Yes
50 Votes No
https://forum.neocron-game.com/showthread.php?88779-The-Definitive-REMOVE-PARA-Poll-Vote-Now!

bobhoskins
09-11-16, 12:11
Could we get a poll to vote on for the leg breaking and freeze effects that are due to come into play Saturday?
Not sure if that is something i can make can't see an option for it.