View Full Version : Question regarding stealing other players items.
I've seen Pinkk/Visage/Firesprite offer to "repair" noobs items, and instead steal them. Multiple times. Is this against the rules, or just a really shitty thing to do to people on a server that Pinkk claims to hate and want to kill? All I ever see this guy do when he logs in is be toxic to others. Literally the only person in game I've had to put on ignore.
Can we just say enough is enough? Or am I being a lil bitch and he should be able to continue to screw people over and shit talk the server?
I've seen Pinkk/Visage/Firesprite offer to "repair" noobs items, and instead steal them. Multiple times. Is this against the rules, or just a really shitty thing to do to people on a server that Pinkk claims to hate and want to kill? All I ever see this guy do when he logs in is be toxic to others. Literally the only person in game I've had to put on ignore.
Can we just say enough is enough? Or am I being a lil bitch and he should be able to continue to screw people over and shit talk the server?
There used to be a time when this game had a real population. You had clans... and people had reputations. You needed contacts and trust. Scamming items is legit but since there is like barely 50 people online since 5 years I think whoever does it now is an idiot.
I guess I'm just being a big baby if it is, in fact, legal to scam people. Hard to be online all the time to warn the noobs against it. Oh well I'll continue handing out comparable gear to the stuff that was stolen. /shrug
Edit: Just seems shitty for toxic players to try and ruin this server and hump the nc1 server that's not even out.
Regardless, if you see this, please warn others against this asshole.
Scenario: I am a new player, using my tl53 rifle to level with. It breaks and I try to find a rep to fix it. There's only ONE person offering to repair my gun, and it just happens to be the person waiting to scam noobs. Is this a fair scenario? Is the playerbase big enough to afford one person ruining the time of a new player?
he is within his right to scam, that should not be changed.
i agree he is just a scum faced shithead for doing it when pops are low.
as far as talking shit to get people over to the other server.... should be instant perma ban.
Respectfully, I disagree that he's within his right to scam, perhaps if we had hundreds of players on we could say like back in 2014 "Caveat Emptor," but the problem is that we have less than 2% of the servers capacity. Scamming players on a game which is in hard development right now to fix the problems its facing is not going to make them want to stay. It's currently unmoderated, but so long as someone can hide behind an LE, there is absolutely no justice of any kind. If we agree that the Law Enforcer is a device which enforces the law, and that failure to perform a service without restitution or return of owned property is theft, how is the Law Enforcer doing its job anyway? I would argue that theft is indeed illegal, as there's a missions in the game which support that. I naturally cannot spoil them but they exist. Consistent application of the lore, while not vital, leaves no reason with sufficient posture to leave scamming unmoderated.
Scamming where you trade another item to another player who then runs off with your item, is legitimate. Harsh I know, but Neocron is a tough world. How you go about revenge is upto you. ;)
I'm sure the players here will give you their own advice on how to avoid being scammed.
All I ever see this guy do when he logs in is be toxic to others. Literally the only person in game I've had to put on ignore.
Picking up on this point, all players are bound by the Neocron Rules of Conduct (http://www.neocron-game.com/rules-of-conduct). If you or anyone believe any player is breaching these rules, please drop us an email to helpdesk@neocron-game.com with any evidence such as chatlogs and screenshots.
Scamming where you trade another item to another player who then runs off with your item, is legitimate. Harsh I know, but Neocron is a tough world. How you go about revenge is upto you. ;)
Hi Bifrost! Its been a while since we spoke, great to see you, thanks for coming into the thread and weighing in! I know how things have always been, but an open dialogue about that is not unreasonable, is it? Neocron is a tough world, with a tough playerbase that endures. I think we all agree that we want to see the best for this world, and while I agree that on a lore standpoint, scamming is really legit business for a seedy underworld themed game, the avenues for revenge are limited with the application of the Law Enforcer.
As far as avoiding scams, with such a limited player base, if there's only one person offering a service to repair an item, knowledge that repairs can be done remotely with a remote repair tool is a good start, however I'd like to draw attention to rule 1, and that I feel this rule is broken when a scam has taken place.
12618
It clearly states not to cause discomfort or distress. I would like to argue that I've been in this position where I've lost my ability to function because my primary tool for leveling either hasn't worked (Drones) or where it's broken when I needed it (Hacking/Hacknet) and these were my own doing, however, another player doing this to someone on our limited playerbase is causing distress and discomfort that really doesn't need to be there. It's the first rule up there. How can we say it's okay for a player to scam someone else, when rule #6 states that you can't take part in Pyramid schemes or other forms of fraud? Admittedly, we can agree there's a huge gap between real life fraud and in game fraud, but I'd argue that allowing someone to do this with a Law Enforcer in provides no method of retaliation, there is no resolution or recourse, and that further causes distress and discomfort.
#7 says you may not violate any laws, local, state, federal, international. There are a slew of laws against cyberbullying, and I'll happily edit my post with a number of them, we can define bullying as a verb where, "use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force him or her to do what one wants." By scamming another player in the virtual environment, the scammer is using their influence and the intimidation factor of needing assistance to get the item from them, which is just what they wanted. Cyberbullying is simply the application of bullying over an electronic medium. By supporting this kind of activity, I would like to argue that the staff are equally culpable for breaking Rule #1, not for the sake of saying, "Ah hah, I got you!" but for the sake of rhetoric.
We all love Neocron and we want Neocron to be better, don't we? I'd like to ask us to review this policy and say, "What good purpose does this serve? How does this help our playerbase? How does this make Neocron better?"
sorry, i dont buy it, PKing someone once could be seen as causing discomfort or distress.....
I dont know about todays hippy interpretation of the word "bully", but in the past, for a case to be "bullying" there must be more than one case of intimidation or violence.
again, the way you put it, a single PK of someone could be classes as bullying.
im not for people scamming others ingame, however as much as i am not for that, i am 100X less for making the game softer, we already lost naked strippers.... this game was once for 18+.... then the carebears came and half ruined it.... then the hackers come and totally ruined it.
lets have a non carebear cyberpunk atmosphere where there is a level playing field but people can do what they like.
sorry, i dont buy it, PKing someone once could be seen as causing discomfort or distress.....
I dont know about todays hippy interpretation of the word "bully", but in the past, for a case to be "bullying" there must be more than one case of intimidation or violence.
again, the way you put it, a single PK of someone could be classes as bullying.
im not for people scamming others ingame, however as much as i am not for that, i am 100X less for making the game softer, we already lost naked strippers.... this game was once for 18+.... then the carebears came and half ruined it.... then the hackers come and totally ruined it.
lets have a non carebear cyberpunk atmosphere where there is a level playing field but people can do what they like.
If your only argument is ad hominem against those that would view scamming people causes distress then I really can't argue that, I'm not here to sell you something, and I'm not here to be right. The purpose of having a discussion is to enlighten to another point of view. I don't understand how this answers the question of "what good purpose allowing scamming to persist serves?"
I'm here because we have a mutual interest in the continued function of Neocron, which happens when there's a playerbase. If you provide no reasonable recourse to an individual to right an injustice that affects their game play experience, then what reason do they have to stay here?
I fail to see how treating members of the community properly when someone prevents their ability to function in the game and continue playing, giving them a reason to return to the service, makes the game softer. I would consider that engagement valuable and shows the administration team--who is already fighting very hard between updating the server and taking care of the other aspects involved--has solidarity with these players. You said yourself you're not with scamming, so why are you defending it?
Respectfully, you know, we can have it both ways. We have this law enforcer chip which is fantastic, it gives players the choice to what interaction they're willing to engage in with the game, and it's presence is more than sufficient in my opinion, for the establishment of choice. However, if someone elects to scam another player, I think it makes the game a -little harder- that if they're caught, they get it removed. If they make another character to avoid the penalty of having the LE removed, well, there's only four character slots so they'd have to waste their time dealing with that.
Further, since I can respect your enjoyment of the difficulty, the onus and burden of proof should be on the victim, if they can furnish proof they were scammed, the level of that proof would need to be sufficient by the terms of the staff, if photo evidence isn't enough, perhaps a twitch recording of trade interactions that can be reviewed would be an excellent use of modern technology.
I would like to respectfully assert that your argument of multiple cases of intimidation, violence, or action against another has already been well established, at least two years ago, I recall this very same conversation, when we had a considerable number more players on. I'd say these past two years haven't been kind to the server, and looking at when you joined, basically when I started college, you've seen the whole game in what could be argued as the golden age. Personally, if we had a larger playerbase, I'd -agree- that it should be Caveat Emptor. I think right now though, it'd be wise to consider an exception with such a limited number of people around. Retention should be a priority.
William Antrim
28-07-16, 19:17
Scam me once shame on you.
Scam me twice, shame on me.
warn people about them
get others to constantly PK them if you cant.
dont turn this into WoW.
im sorry if im wrong, but i imagine you as the guy who would have asked electronic arts to change it so youy stuff doesnt drop when you die in UO..... hey that used to happen here too, untill carebears wanted it changed (server load played a role in that change too) so they dont lose thier stuff.....
im all for giving scammees more options for revenge, i am not for removing scamming or other things which fit in with the atmosphere.
i agree retention is the most important thing, but neocron lost a lot of players with most major changes, that included each time things were made to cater for younger players.
the glory days of neocron where harsh, but that is why they were good, each change that brought us to a "safer" gaming place made it worse - stripper nipples being band aided, backpack no longer dropping, safe slot in quickbelt, etc.
warn people about them
get others to constantly PK them if you cant.
dont turn this into WoW.
That's all well and fine as long as they don't have their LE installed, then I suppose it's justice served. If they do, then this gives absolutely no recourse.
But it should come to notice of the record that there has been no challenge to my assertion that this activity is, in fact, against the rules and it's simply been ignored. Which is a shame. Something should be done to rectify the situation, either by treating it as the infraction it really is or giving the player in question a method of exacting revenge.
How about a bounty card? A tool allowing the player in question to attack the player named on the item, LE installed or not, with all the benefits and downfalls of PVP regarding that one user until the player holding the card or anyone in a team with the card-holding player kills the player in question, or no longer has the card in their belt? While holding the item, the player or anyone in their team can be killed by the named player, if they die they retain the card and can continue to hunt the scammer at another time?
To keep with the atmosphere, the card should only be given to the character who was scammed, and only be good for the character the person was scammed by?
Doc Holliday
29-07-16, 02:51
Visage aka arista barret aka inspector pinkie or pinky i forget how he spelled it. Just lol. Dont trust him with your shit in game. thats all i can say.
sorry saadow, it isnt an infraction, it has been said multiple times that i can remember over the years that it is not against the rules.... it never has been.
any implementation of anything to allow people to get revenge on scammers would have to be automated, so like a tag put on the item with its owners name/id if it gets traded and no money changes hands. then if that item isnt returned to owner in X time then you get your card. There is no way it could be a support ticket thing, GMs always have enough to do.
We have the processor built into our hud, why not make tools that allow for trading what's in your processor to another player? Make the game more difficult by requiring a minimum barter to use the tools so people have to put points in it, otherwise they have to do it the old fashioned way? This way the system is protected, it's not dropped on the ground which can be exploited to other people. Scamming can still happen--because for some reason, for someone that doesn't support it, you seem to be just fine letting it happen--when someone decides to trade without using the system, nothing is done about the scamming because there were automated tools that the player should have used.
A solution could be to duplicate the remote implant 'function' and applicate it to repair.
There's already a tool ingame for that purpose.
Who want to have his stuff repair just place it into the process window and find a repairer with a remote repair tool
and there you go, no more scam of this kind.
I like that there is risk. I only trade with people I trust, so I'm usually safe. If you don't know anyone, stop not knowing anyone.
Your answer is somewhat strange and condescending ^^.
You state that you like some risk but immediatly after, say that you trade with your only trusted poeple.
And if it's not enough you advise some noobs to begin befriend someone to trust on an empty server,
paradoxical I think ;).
Your answer is somewhat strange and condescending ^^.
You state that you like some risk but immediatly after, say that you trade with your only trusted poeple.
And if it's not enough you advise some noobs to begin befriend someone to trust on an empty server,
paradoxical I think ;).
I meant that the risk forced me to find people I could trust. I think everyone should be aware of the risk and then follow help/trade chat and socialize a little bit, so they can know who to trust.The community is small, but I still know a handful of cst/res/rep people and I have zero reason to even make tradeskillers myself. Firing Squad (Immune) and GP both wont rip you off. Most of the tradeskill clans that hang out in P1 are legit, just keep an eye out and you'll recognize the names quickly.
THAT is a more constructive answer, thanks a lot for them ;).
We have the processor built into our hud, why not make tools that allow for trading what's in your processor to another player? Make the game more difficult by requiring a minimum barter to use the tools so people have to put points in it, otherwise they have to do it the old fashioned way? This way the system is protected, it's not dropped on the ground which can be exploited to other people. Scamming can still happen--because for some reason, for someone that doesn't support it, you seem to be just fine letting it happen--when someone decides to trade without using the system, nothing is done about the scamming because there were automated tools that the player should have used.
You should never trade anything to someone who wants it dropped on the ground.
You should be wary of tradeskillers who close / dont reopen the HUD while repairing / constructing, etc.
I like that there is risk. I only trade with people I trust, so I'm usually safe. If you don't know anyone, stop not knowing anyone.
this.
That's all well and fine as long as they don't have their LE installed, then I suppose it's justice served. If they do, then this gives absolutely no recourse.
But it should come to notice of the record that there has been no challenge to my assertion that this activity is, in fact, against the rules and it's simply been ignored. Which is a shame. Something should be done to rectify the situation, either by treating it as the infraction it really is or giving the player in question a method of exacting revenge.
How about a bounty card? A tool allowing the player in question to attack the player named on the item, LE installed or not, with all the benefits and downfalls of PVP regarding that one user until the player holding the card or anyone in a team with the card-holding player kills the player in question, or no longer has the card in their belt? While holding the item, the player or anyone in their team can be killed by the named player, if they die they retain the card and can continue to hunt the scammer at another time?
To keep with the atmosphere, the card should only be given to the character who was scammed, and only be good for the character the person was scammed by?
Lol this game has seen more than it's share of players coming to complain on forums about being treated harshly in-game. Demanding game changes, and usually/generally making the game softer.
They've tried and listened to them, because at at time, they were a 'paying customer base', and they ruined the essence of the game along with it. They have lost their base player base by try to accomodate and doing too many changes (re-balance anyone ?).
Now all I see within this post and your next ones are you doing the exact same thing and demanding game changes to accomodate your (safer) style of play.
The game is geared towards you building a crew and exacting revenge, not asking for a player to get in troubles, nor by changing rules, or game mechanics.
Causing in game grief to other players is embedded in the game mechanics, in a certain way.
We used to put people on KoS lists and kill them repeatedly, any and everytime we would encounter them. People would lie, scam, shoot you in the back, steal your items in your belts while you teamed with them, follow you in your apt and gank you in there, or rezz/kill repeatedly...
This is, after all, an hardcore pvp game.
Slogan used to be 'no more elves' and 'never die alone'.
I think I was the one that this post was started over, when visage went to repair my item, at least supposedly, and then jacked me of my 4 slot liquid fire rifle. I was actually accused of starting this thread by a GM I talked to about my complaint from the incident. I ended up just upgrading to a plasma rifle. I was already the right level to use it, so it ended up not being such a big deal. the GM stated that its not against the rules of the game to steal from other players by pretending to have a tradeskill. The only thing he was really worried about was if the runner in question had said something that would have been considered against the rules. I didn't know of any such thing being said, but explained everything that he said, all the way down to the hunt in pepper park with a time limit to find my weapon that was stolen, which would supposedly have been in a barrel, and I had declined the hunt for it because I was already building myself the higher level weapon. Its just good to know that people will look out for each other in the future if this person tries to do it to someone else. Without that support to being able to keep them from having the ability to steal from another player, no one would know whether or not to undergo this type of risk, which is taken every time you go to another character to get help via their tradeskill that they are trying to offer.
knowledge that repairs can be done remotely with a remote repair tool is a good start, however I'd like to draw attention to rule 1, and that I feel this rule is broken when a scam has taken place.
12618
I think this tool is for repairing vehicles only mate.
Today the clan Al Hayat and members ( Green Arizona ) ( Passive Monk) and (Waltraut) Stole from me earilier. Said they would log a repper and Stole a item from me. Which is really shitty tbh. These guys are in Fallen Angels and apparently do this a lot so keep an eye out for them!!
Today the clan Al Hayat and members ( Green Arizona ) ( Passive Monk) and (Waltraut) Stole from me earilier. Said they would log a repper and Stole a item from me. Which is really shitty tbh. These guys are in Fallen Angels and apparently do this a lot so keep an eye out for them!!
What a bunch of t*ssers, should just wait for the lads to get on mate, hope they didn't get anything too valuable.
William Antrim
31-12-16, 12:50
A solution could be to duplicate the remote implant 'function' and applicate it to repair.
There's already a tool ingame for that purpose.
Who want to have his stuff repair just place it into the process window and find a repairer with a remote repair tool
and there you go, no more scam of this kind.
I like this idea.
^ this.
I was thinking about it already some ... erm, oh.. years ago but this got lost from my ToDo list for some reason ;/
Bunch of Bad Dragon hypocrits here commenting on item stealing. :wtf: DIS stole over 3millions worth of loot from me on his alt I Barter as a "tax" for not keeping quiet about certain individuals cheating, and then pretended I Barter was some random new guy. And at least 2 people in the clan both steal and blackmail people who trade items for repair.
^ this.Not this. Unless it was implemented with some minimum remote repair skill requirement that a player can set, as well as the ability to disable it like the trade window. Otherwise you would have people shit repping all the time, and some people (including me) use the processor window to organize some inventory like armour and swapping around quickbelt items because the regular inventory window is clunky and annoying.
Bunch of Bad Dragon hypocrits here commenting on item stealing. :wtf: DIS stole over 3millions worth of loot from me on his alt I Barter as a "tax" for not keeping quiet about certain individuals cheating, and then pretended I Barter was some random new guy. And at least 2 people in the clan both steal and blackmail people who trade items for repair.
I Barter is not me or DIS or any core member of Good Dragon. He did join us on an alt (after he had already scammed you), but was only active for like 2 days. We're kicking all inactive people.
We don't typically scam people. I did sell some computer junk as unressed tech parts, which was hilarious, but it only worked twice :p Easiest 750k I've ever made.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.