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View Full Version : Balance Project Update, July 2016.



Trivaldi
15-07-16, 00:31
To clarify a bit further on some of Bragi's points (http://forum.neocron-game.com/showthread.php?156556-Neocron-Moving-Forward&p=2235326&viewfull=1#post2235326), our next patch to Titan will be the changes to the weapon system. Those changes encompass an entirely rewritten damage and weapon mechanic system. All aspects of how weapons operate in the game will have a completely new implementation. An implementation that we're sure will have many benefits in the years to come.

This is the implementation you have seen evolve on Vedeena since the last Titan patch.

Weapons will still be those that you know and use today. You won't suddenly have to relearn the entire game but the underlying mechanics will be more efficient. They will be more reliable and accurately predictable. All weapons types have been united into a manageable system which accurately reflects the changes we make. No longer will a toffee hammer adjustment to a statistic lead to a sledgehammer change in damage in game.

This is the reason any testing of weapons you can contribute from Vedeena would be very helpful. For example, each runner picks a series of weapons, tests them against our damage sponge Elf NPCs and notes the anomalies. With that data Zoltan can chase down and fix the last pockets of renegade code which cause some of seemingly unpredictable impacts we've seen in Neocron for years.

Once that's done, the changes we've added to Vedeena will be rolled into the next Titan patch. It's the significance and wide spread nature of the weapon system rewrite, which is holding back some of the other changes currently on Vedeena.

kazvall
15-07-16, 02:20
Hey there,

I'm loaded up with all the melee weapons on my tank, and all the rifles on my spy. Could you explain how to get WoC on the test server?

I believe Jack is loaded up with all the H-C and Pistols on his test characters. He just started a new job... but I'll try and help him by being his ammo mule. That means I just need to lom my spy to drones and get those numbers, after rifles are done.

I believe APU spell tests have already been done? Please let me know about that, and where to grab WoC.

Thanks.

Bragi
15-07-16, 03:03
In the Neoconstruct is an altar which warps you to the Ceres temple. Talk to the 'Super Hard Mission Guy' to kill a rat. This gives you a bucket of xp (you may need to repeat this challenging mission a few times).
In the Neoconstruct is an NPC that gives out free WoC disks (WoC'o'Mat). Talk to the Moneyman for free creds and activate WoC as normal.

kazvall
15-07-16, 06:32
I have the melee weapons done, will continue with rifles tomorrow. I'll get everything posted after I make sure there's no errors/typos.

Trivaldi
15-07-16, 10:08
Thanks very much kazvall, this really helps us a lot!

Drachenpaladin
15-07-16, 10:17
The Moneyman is found in the Neoconstruct btw.
There is also a terminal to jump between temple and 'struct.

William Antrim
15-07-16, 12:42
What weapons require testing please? As in specific individual weapons or by class. Is there a shared document anywhere that we can all use (google drive or some such) so as to record data accurately?

What specifically is required - as in do you want a spreadsheet with my character stats (PC, RC, Wep Lore) and % stats on the weapons) and damage numbers or just damage numbers?

I can easily write a basic excel sheet to cope with the data but is this the best format? and how can I ensure I am not duplicating someone elses testing just because I like pistols more for example?

Any feedback would be appreciated. I am keen to help if this is achievable solo.

-AB-
15-07-16, 12:50
tests them against our damage sponge Elf NPCs .

where can i find them ?

found them ...

Bifrost
15-07-16, 13:36
What weapons require testing please? As in specific individual weapons or by class. Is there a shared document anywhere that we can all use (google drive or some such) so as to record data accurately?

What specifically is required - as in do you want a spreadsheet with my character stats (PC, RC, Wep Lore) and % stats on the weapons) and damage numbers or just damage numbers?

I can easily write a basic excel sheet to cope with the data but is this the best format? and how can I ensure I am not duplicating someone elses testing just because I like pistols more for example?

Any feedback would be appreciated. I am keen to help if this is achievable solo.

Check the latest patch notes (http://forum.neocron-game.com/showthread.php?156549-R-199-T-216-Patchnotes) - under the section "Known issues" In summary, don't use PSI, Drones and stick to testing with normal ammo.

The format, you can choose. We even had a paper scan from Ascension (http://forum.neocron-game.com/showthread.php?156548-R-199-T-215-Patchnotes&p=2235192&viewfull=1#post2235192) which was perfect!

Divide
15-07-16, 16:43
Wouldn't it make sense to build a logging tool that captures this information automatically so it could be both automated and accurate without all of the manual effort?

Bifrost
15-07-16, 17:19
Wouldn't it make sense to build a logging tool that captures this information automatically so it could be both automated and accurate without all of the manual effort?

I suspect that will come later when the new code has settled down into a good working state as the changes are quite extensive.

Plus logging tools don't always capture bugs that players find or how the game feels to play with the changes. Also you get a +1 on your post count for posting on the forums. :)

Nidhogg
15-07-16, 17:38
Also you get a +1 on your post count for posting on the forums. :)

Always a bonus. :) (+1)

William Antrim
15-07-16, 20:13
so a cut and paste onto the forum will suffice then? I will go and test some numbers and write them in here and thats enough for you?

kazvall
15-07-16, 22:10
Warning: With the rifle/melee weapons I tested I was having trouble getting headshots on the elf bitches. Melee I couldn't seem to, probably because I had to stand in close proximity. In some cases with the rifles I was able to score a headshot. If I was able to, I wrote it down. I'm going to assume the models aren't responding correctly with the hitboxes, and not that the weapons are bugged. Same thing with the feet. Albeit, I could get those each time. I'd have to aim almost off the model entirely for a headshot.


I tried to write down which color the damage was, if it's not listed, it's red damage. Tested the fusion rifles at two ranges.
If there's anything that's unclear please ask questions.. I have to admit I forgot to see how much ammo the pumpguns used per shot, I'm going to assume it was 2?

Damage is listed as (Head/Body/Legs) next to weapon description.


Melee weapons

my skills:

220 melee, 152 WEP, 145 ath, 40 end, 102 t-c, 195 agl




Lowtech Melee Weapon - All damage for lowtech was RED COLORED unless otherwise noted.

TL Item name Requirements Damage(Head/Body/Legs)

2 Stiletto STR: 1 (120 / 120 / 96) - too much damage by factor of 10?

3 Special Alloy Knife STR: 1 (12 / 12 / 9)

5 Knuckles STR: 1 (6&2 / 6&2 / 5&2)

10 Tsurugaouka-Sword M-C: 45 didn't see merchant for this

13 Crummy Baseball Bat STR: 13 M-C: 32 (23 / 23 / 19)

17 Rusty Double-Edged Sword STR: 17 M-C: 42 (15&1 / 15&1 / 12&1)

21 Junk Knife STR: 21 M-C: 51 (173 / 173 / 138) - too much damage by factor of 10?

24 Brassknuckles STR: 24 M-C: 55 (11&11 / 11&11 / 8&8)

33 Self-constructed Claw STR: 33 M-C: 66 (22&7 / 22&7 / 17&5)

41 Combat Knife STR: 41 M-C: 75 (52 / 52 / 42)

44 Baseball Bat STR: 44 M-C: 78 (81 / 81 / 64)

49 Claw STR: 49 M-C: 82 (32&10 / 32&10 / 26&8)

57 Double-edged Sword STR: 57 M-C: 89 (51&5 / 51&5 / 40&4)

65 Face Scratcher' Claw STR: 65 M-C: 95 (43&14 / 43&14 / 34&11)

76 Special Forces Combat Knife STR: 76 M-C: 103 (97 / 97 / 78)

80 Paw of Tiger STR: 80 M-C: 105 (42&14&14green / 42&14&14green / 34&11&11green)

80 Tai-Chi Double-Edged Sword STR: 80 M-C: 105 (71&7 / 71&7 / 57&6)

82 Perforator STR: 82 M-C: 105 (30&30 / 30&30 / 24&24)

94 Peacemaker STR: 94 M-C: 112 (169 / 169 / 136)

97 Vein Ripper STR: 97 M-C: 113 (118 / 118 / 94)

100 Blade of Ceres STR: 100 M-C: 115 (153 / 153 / 122)

104 The Dentist STR: 104 M-C: 117 (91 / 91 / 73)

108 Zsusun STR: 108 M-C: 119 (141 / 141 / 113)

108 Hurler King Knuckles STR: 108 M-C: 119 (91 / 91 / 73)

112 Paw of Bear STR: 112 M-C: 121 (136 / 136 / 109)



Hightech Melee Weapon

TL Item name Requirements Damage(Head/Body/Legs)

5 Beggar Electroshocker STR: 5 M-C: 12 T-C: 6 didn't see merchant for this

15 Unlabeled Electro Shocker STR: 15 M-C: 37 T-C: 18 (13 / 13 / 10) all blue damage

32 Electro Shocker STR: 32 M-C: 65 T-C: 40 (28 / 28 / 23) all blue damage

37 Laserblade STR: 37 M-C: 71 T-C: 46 (19red&12blue / 19red&12blue / 15red&10blue)

62 Laserblade II STR: 62 M-C: 93 T-C: 63 (32red&21blue / 32red&21blue / 25red&17blue)

71 Tangent High-Voltage Shocker STR: 71 M-C: 100 T-C: 89 (64 / 64 / 51) all blue damage

76 Long Laserblade STR: 76 M-C: 103 T-C: 72 (39red&26blue / 39red&26blue / 31red&21blue)

83 Long Laserblade II STR: 83 M-C: 106 T-C: 76 (43red&28blue / 43red&28blue / 34red&23blue)

90 Energy Soulblade STR: 90 M-C: 110 T-C: 79 didn't see merchant for this

91 Electric Tempest STR: 91 M-C: 110 T-C: 79 didn't see merchant for this

91 E24.81 Electric Tempest STR: 91 M-C: 110 T-C: 79 didn't see merchant for this

110 Thunderbolt STR: 110 M-C: 120 T-C: 87 (167 / 167 / 133) all orange damage

115 Devil's Grace STR: 115 M-C: 122 T-C: 89 (145 / 145 / 116) all red damage


RIFLES:

My Skills: WEP 131, R-C 185, T-C 94


Lowtech Rifle - All RED COLORED damage unless otherwise noted. 1 shot = 1 ammo consumed unless otherwise noted.

TL Item name Requirements Damage(Head/Body/Legs)

2 Lazar Rifle DEX: 2 R-C: 5 didn't see merchant for this

5 Standard Street Model Rifle DEX: 5 R-C: 12 (22 / 22 / 17) red damage

6 Mendicant Rifle DEX: 6 R-C: 15 didn't see merchant for this

9 Pumpgun DEX: 9 R-C: 22 (34 / 34 / 27) red damage

13 Archer Companion Rifle DEX: 13 R-C: 32 (9 / 9 / 7) damage per shot, 3 shots per click, 3 ammo consumed.

21 Enhanced Street Model Rifle DEX: 21 R-C: 51 (45 / 45 / 36) red damage

23 A&W Protector Pumpgun DEX: 23 R-C: 53 (87 / 87 / 70) red damage

30 Assault Rifle DEX: 30 R-C: 62 (21 / 21 / 16) red damage per shot, 3 shots per click,3 ammo consumed.

35 Tangent Enforcer Pumpgun DEX: 35 R-C: 68 (133 / 133 / 107) red damage

38 Unlabeled Gatlin Rifle DEX: 38 R-C: 72 (18 / 18 / 14) red damage per shot, 5 shots per click, 5 ammo consumed.

40 A&W Steady RF-113 Rifle DEX: 40 R-C: 75 (86 / 86 / 68) red damage

44 Enhanced Assault Rifle DEX: 44 R-C: 78 (31 / 31 / 24) red damage per shot, 3 shots per click, 3 ammo consumed.

57 Unregistered 'Black Market' Assault Rifle DEX: 57 R-C: 89 (40 / 40 / 32)

61 Gatlin Rifle DEX: 61 R-C: 92 (29 / 29 / 23) red damage per shot, 5 shots per click, 5 ammo consumed.

65 Unregistered 'Black Market' Pumpgun DEX: 65 R-C: 95 didn't see merchant for this

75 Tsunami Assault Rifle TSU-3265 DEX: 75 R-C: 102 (52 / 52 / 42) damage per shot, 3 shots per click, 3 ammo consumed.

78 Unregistered 'Black Market' RF-102 Rfile DEX: 78 R-C: 104 (168 / 168 / 134) red

79 Enhanced Gatlin Rifle DEX: 79 R-C: 104 (38 / 38 / 30) red damage per shot, 5 shots per click, 5 ammo consumed.

87 Terminator DEX: 87 R-C: 108 (309 / 309 / 247) red

93 Pain Easer DEX: 93 R-C: 111 (56 / 56 / 45) red damage per shot, 3 shots per click, 3 ammo consumed.

97 Ionic Shotgun Rifle DEX: 97 R-C: 113 (123 / 123 / 98) red

98 S.W.A.T Assault Rifle DEX: 98 WoC DEX: 1 R-C: 104 (59 / 49 / 39) red damage per shot, 3 shots per click, 3 ammo consumed.

102 FAR-6000 Reaper Assault Rifle DEX: 102 WoC DEX: 1 R-C: 108 (59 / 49 / 39) red damage per shot, 3 shots per click, 3 ammo consumed.

103 Desperado DEX: 103 R-C: 116 (174 / 174 / 139) red damage

104 Libra DEX: 104 R-C: 117 (39 / 39 / 31) red damage per shot, 5 shots per click, 5 ammo consumed.

108 Infiltration Assault Rifle IRA-47 INT: 108 WoC DEX: 1 R-C: 114 (58 / 48 / 38) red damage per shot, 4 shots per
click, 4 ammo consumed

113 Ceres Assault Rifle CAR-47 DEX: 113 WoC DEX: 1 R-C: 121 (58 / 48 / 38) red damage per shot, 4 shots per click, 4 ammo consumed.

115 HVSR-90 Ronin Sniper Rifle DEX: 115 WoC DEX: 1 R-C: 123 (99 / 82 / 66) red damage



Hightech Rifle

TL Item name Requirements Damage(Head/Body/Legs) 1 shot = 1 ammo consumed unless otherwise noted.

10 Sniper Rifle R-C: 40

17 Unlabeled 'Slowfire' Rifle DEX: 17 R-C: 42 T-C: 21 (18 / 18 / 15)blue damage per shot, 3 shots per click, 3
ammo consumed

17 Tangent B1 Rifle DEX: 17 R-C: 42 T-C: 21 (146 / 122 / 97) all red

26 A&W Snowflake Freezer DEX: 26 R-C: 57 T-C: 32 (30 / 30 / 24) all blue

26 Tangent 'Substandard' Pulselaser Rifle DEX: 26 R-C: 57 T-C: 32 (19 / 19 / 15) orange damage, takes 3 ammo per click but fires 6 projectiles

38 Tangent Sniper Rifle DEX: 38 R-C: 72 T-C: 47 (273 / 273 / 218) red damage

42 'Arctic Winter' Freezer DEX: 42 R-C: 76 T-C: 51 (58 / 48 / 39) blue damage per shot, 3 shots per click, 3 ammo consumed.

48 Tangent 'Sureshot' Laser Rifle DEX: 48 R-C: 81 T-C: 55 (63 / 52 / 42) blue damage per shot, 3 shots per click, 3 ammo consumed

52 Tangent Pulselaser Rifle DEX: 52 R-C: 85 T-C: 57 (47 / 39 / 31) orange damage, takes 3 ammo per click but
fires 6 projectiles

53 HEW Liquid Fire Rifle DEX: 53 R-C: 85 T-C: 58 (58 / 58 / 46) blue damage per shot, 4 shots per click, 4 ammo
consumed

56 Tangent Lightbringer FR-118 DEX: 56 R-C: 88 T-C: 60 (red damage)(116 / 116 / 78)-across the arena, (61 / 61 / 49)-point blank

59 HEW Lightcaster Raygun DEX: 59 R-C: 90 T-C: 61 (108 / 108 / 87) all blue

63 Tangent Ice Age FZ-31B Freezer DEX: 63 R-C: 94 T-C: 64 (73 / 58 / 58) blue damage per shot, 3 shots per click, 3 ammo consumed

67 Ryker Laser Rifle LDR-872 DEX: 67 R-C: 97 T-C: 66 (88 / 73 / 59) blue damage per shot, 3 shots per click, 3
ammo consumed.

70 Plasma Rifle DEX: 70 R-C: 100 T-C: 68 (92 / 76 / 61) blue damage per shot, 4 shots per click, 4 ammo consumed

73 Fusion Rifle DEX: 73 R-C: 101 T-C: 70 (red damage)(144 / 120 / 96)-across the arena (97 / 81 / 65)-point blank

75 Prototype Tangent-Laserbeam-Rifle DEX: 75 R-C: 102 T-C: 71 (82 / 82 / 66) blue damage per shot, 3 shots per
click, 3 ammo consumed.

76 R-AS331 Raygun DEX: 76 R-C: 103 T-C: 72 (169 / 141 / 112) blue damage

79 Tangent Commando Sniper Rifle DEX: 79 R-C: 104 T-C: 74 (569 / 569 / 455) red damage

81 Tangent 'Stabber' Pulselaser Rifle DEX: 81 R-C: 105 T-C: 75 (73 / 61 / 48) orange damage, takes 3 ammo per click
but fires 6 projectiles

82 Enhanced Plasma Rifle DEX: 82 R-C: 106 T-C: 75 (106 / 88 / 70) blue damage per shot, 4 shots per click, 4 ammo consumed

85 Tangent Lightbringer 2 FR-345 DEX: 85 R-C: 107 T-C: 77 (red damage)(156 / 130 / 104)-across the arena (105 / 88 / 70)-point blank

88 TG Raygun Rifle DEX: 88 R-C: 109 T-C: 78 (179 / 149 / 119) blue damage

88 Raygun Yager's Gaze DEX: 88 R-C: 109 T-C: 78 (179 / 149 / 119) blue damage

98 Ray of God DEX: 98 R-C: 114 T-C: 82 (179 / 149 / 119) blue damage

101 Thunderstorm DEX: 101 R-C: 115 T-C: 83 (112 / 93 / 75) blue damage per shot, 3 shots per click, 3 ammo consumed.

105 Redeemer DEX: 105 R-C: 117 T-C: 85 (red damage)(159 / 132 / 106)-across the arena (105 / 88 / 70)-point blank

110 Healing Light DEX: 110 R-C: 120 T-C: 87 (106 / 88 / 71) blue damage per shot, 3 shots per click, 3 ammo consumed.

111 Silent Hunter DEX: 111 R-C: 120 T-C: 87 (581 / 581 / 465) red damage

114 First Love DEX: 114 R-C: 122 T-C: 89 (106 / 88 / 70) blue damage per shot, 4 shots per click, 4 ammo consumed


115 Disruptor DEX: 115 R-C: 122 T-C: 89 (73 / 61 / 48) orange damage, takes 3 ammo per click but fires 6 projectiles






Anomalies that are easy to see:

Stiletto does 120 damage. Junk knife 173. Tangent Commando Sniper damage seems a bit high.

All pulselasers fire 6 shots but only consume 3.

I couldn't find some weapons on the merchants, so someone will have to track those down and test those if needed. Otherwise, everything I tested on melee/rifles did damage.

Zoltan
15-07-16, 22:34
Very nice work so far - excactly what we needed. A patch is on the way which addresses weapon frequencies.
Some of them do have a gap between shots of '0' (seconds) which is leading to a calculation issue (x * 0).

William Antrim
16-07-16, 13:23
I have all the high tech pistols to test and will do low tech later but I havent found the elves yet. I went to the matrix and stocked up but are they in P1 or somewhere else? I went to the ceres temple but didnt see them there either. Never mind i found em too.

when i saw shooting range i assumed it was the junk one from NC1.... sorry.

Liberator does 38 damage x4 in the red zone (torso) but even with a closed reticle it still misses more than it should.

This was with a pe with 95 dex and 172 wep lore and 190 pistol combat.

Overall I think i like the changes youve made to the imps and stuff but I think you should know that for a combat char there are now no viable high tech rares for a PE without gimping completely. I couldnt find a single +dex chip I wanted to use outside of the old school ones that still give dex.

I hope you will review the TLs of guns because I want to be able to use a Judge at the very least.

Fasterbot
16-07-16, 15:09
Warning: With the rifle/melee weapons I tested I was having trouble getting headshots on the elf bitches.

Jump and shoot ! ^^.
Even from above, having headshot is nearly impossible, you need to aim way above the top of the target ui to score a headshot, crouching or standing still.


2 Lazar Rifle DEX: 2 R-C: 5 didn't see merchant for this

I recycle one of them with only good damage (67%).
Results are : 26/22/17 red.


6 Mendicant Rifle DEX: 6 R-C: 15 didn't see merchant for this

Same with good damage (60%).
Results are : 7/6/5 red, 3 bullets per shot.

My skills are 168/196/98.


65 Unregistered 'Black Market' Pumpgun DEX: 65 R-C: 95 didn't see merchant for this

Seems to had disappear completly, the hacknet stuff guy and the hacknet stuff vendor doesn't have it.

Misses are way to commun even I oooooooovercap those waypons.

Damage colors are only aesthetics, red = piercing, blue = nrj etc ?

Fasterbot
16-07-16, 21:51
10 Sniper Rifle R-C: 40

Same skills.
Results are 96/80/64. Zoom seems totally broken, it's an 'unzoom' ^^.
Zoom of other sniper seems broken too, commando one is something like 2% zoom.

I try another Mendicant Rifle with perfect damage (111%) I found in one of my cabs, same results.

kazvall
16-07-16, 22:41
Thanks Fasterbot!

William Antrim
17-07-16, 00:42
The Black Market Pump Gun is a hacknet item if memory serves me correctly?

kazvall
17-07-16, 02:50
Aye, it's not on the hacknet merchant.

William Antrim
17-07-16, 09:39
Aye, it's not on the hacknet merchant.

Sorry don't know then.

Fasterbot
17-07-16, 12:20
65 Unregistered 'Black Market' Pumpgun DEX: 65 R-C: 95 didn't see merchant for this

So, I get one construct from scratch (go to hacknetdb the old fashion way, gather parts etc ^^),
with perfect damage (111%).
Results are : 298/248/199 red, two round per shoot but only one damage number.
Same skills.

Zoltan
17-07-16, 12:54
Short update.

I was working on our auto balancing stuff, its now able to handle more than just the regular ammo.
I was trying to test some modifications made by the new logic but I failed so badly in the first moments of testing - No mods are available :D

This zoom thingy on sniper rifles sound strange btw, I'll have a look onto this later. I need to create some mods first :D

About the calculations: We do calculate damage based on TL, frequency of shot (how many shots are possible within a timespan x).

Neocron is using this damage and modifies it by our new damage system - MainSkill + SubSkill.
There are still some codeparts were aim modifies damages aswell, this will be removed.

Aim only affects the chance to hit instead of miss.

Zoltan
17-07-16, 19:03
Progress++

http://neocron-game.com/media/MOD1.png

http://neocron-game.com/media/MOD2.png

The (auto) balancing service is now creating its own ammo + mods.

As you can see DoT's are now handled by the service aswell.

So we finally could have back our beloved DoTs on weapons now :D

Trivaldi
17-07-16, 20:07
Aye, it's not on the hacknet merchant.

Thanks for that, this has been fixed. The item will be available from the Neocronstruct vendor with the next Vedeena patch.

kazvall
18-07-16, 23:47
This time around Jack Drake(Drake6k) helped me out. He shot and I took the numbers down.

Pistols

155 PC, 88 TC, 76 WEP


Character has WoC INT, lol, so someone will have to test WoC pistols. And the recycle stuff.

Lowtech Pistol (Head/Body/Legs)

TL Item name

1 Beggar Nailgun Recycle

2 Lazar Gun Recycle

4 Unlabeled Pinfire Nailgun (20/16/13) red damage

7 Mendicant SMG Recycle

9 A&W Colt Budget (18/15/12) red damage

17 A&W Needle N31 Nailgun (31/26/21) red damage

20 Street Model Uziel SMG (11/9/7) fires 4 bullets, consumes 4 bullets, red damage

25 Unlabeled Automatic Pistol (36/30/24) fires 4 bullets, consumes 4 bullets, red damage

26 A&W Street Model Gun (52/43/34) red damage

31 Ryker Legacy N-52 Nailgun (58/48/38) red damage

32 Unlabeled Mini Rocketlauncher (150, AOE) red damage

36 Ryker Revver Gatlin (14/12/9) fires 3 bullets, consumes 3 bullets, red damage

38 S-337-F Submachine Gun (22/18/14) fires 4 bullets, consumes 4 bullets, red damage

41 Automatic Pistol (59/49/38) fires 4 bullets, consumes 4 bullets, red damage

42 Tangent 'Wasteland Eagle' (84/70/56) red damage

46 Mini Rocketlauncher (252, AOE) red damage

59 Gatlin Pistol (24/20/16) fires 3 bullets, consumes 3 bullets, red damage

63 'Rapidfire' SMG224 (36/30/24) fires 4 bullets, consumes 4 bullets, red damage

64 Tangent Automatic Pistol (92/76/61) fires 4 bullets, consumes 4 bullets, red damage

65 Tangent Mini Rocketlauncher (351, AOE) red damage

77 Enhanced Spitfire Gatlin Pistol (28/23/18) fires 3 bullets, consumes 3 bullets, red damage

88 Wyatt Earp (139/116/93) red damage

91 Liberator (40/33/27) fires 4 bullets, consumes 4 bullets, red damage

95 Ionic Shotgun Pistol (218/182/145) red damage

96 S.W.A.T. Backup Gun WoC

106 HVAP-100 Freeman Pistol WoC

107 Craftsmans Dream 6100 (129/107/86) red damage

110 Dreadfire Prototype 03 (28/23/18) fires 3 bullets, consumes 3 bullets, red damage

113 Ceres Handgun BHG-9 WoC


Hightech Pistol (Head/Body/Legs)

TL Item name

15 HEW Lightwand L77x3 (12/10/8) fires 3 bullets, consumes 3 bullets, blue damage

18 Tangent 'Substandard' Pulselaser Pistol (9/7/6) orange damage

24 Unlabeled 'Chill' Freezer Pistol (32/26/21) fires 2 bullets, consumes 2 bullets, blue damage

40 IC-E-4453 Freezer Pistol (53/44/35) fires 2 bullets, consumes 2 bullets, blue damage

46 Ryker 'Glare' Laser Pistol (39/33/26) fires 3 bullets, consumes 3 bullets, blue damage

51 A&W PP183K Plasma Pistol (47/38/31) fires 3 bullets, consumes 3 bullets, blue damage

54 Street Model Welder Fusion Pistol (100/83/67) fires 2 bullets, consumes 2 bullets, red damage

57 Unlabeled 'Sunray' Raypistol (87/72/58) fires 3 bullets, consumes 3 bullets, blue damage

61 Ryker 'Pocketblizzard' FP-224 (82/68/54) fires 2 bullets, consumes 2 bullets, blue damage

65 Tangent Pulselaser Pistol (34/28/22) orange damage

65 HEW 'Jordan Special' LP-82a (56/46/37) fires 3 bullets, consumes 3 bullets, blue damage

68 Plasma Pistol (62/52/41) fires 3 bullets, consumes 3 bullets, blue damage

71 Fusion Pistol (129/107/86) fires 2 bullets, consumes 2 bullets, red damage

74 RayGun pistol (106/88/70) fires 3 bullets, consumes 3 bullets, blue damage

75 Prototype Tangent-Laserbeam-Pistol (59/48/38) fires 3 bullets, consumes 3 bullets, blue damage

80 Ryker Napalm PP_v42 (63/53/42) fires 3 bullets, consumes 3 bullets, blue damage

83 Ryker Atomfist FP-26 Fusion Pistol (128/107/85) fires 2 bullets, consumes 2 bullets, red damage

86 TG Raygun Pistol (106/88/70) fires 3 bullets, consumes 3 bullets, blue damage

86 Blacksun RP-97 (106/88/70) fires 3 bullets, consumes 3 bullets, blue damage

92 Tangent Assault Pulselaser Pistol (36/30/24) orange damage

100 Judge (63/53/42) fires 3 bullets, consumes 3 bullets, blue damage

100 Juggernaut Crossbow Pistol WoC

102 Steiner F.P 1.0 (92/77/61) fires 2 bullets, consumes 2 bullets, blue damage

103 Slasher (36/30/24) orange damage

105 Beam of Hell (59/49/39) fires 3 bullets, consumes 3 bullets, blue damage

108 Ray of Last Hope (106/88/70) fires 3 bullets, consumes 3 bullets, blue damage

112 Executioner (128/107/85) fires 2 bullets, consumes 2 bullets, red damage



Thoughts:

Rayguns do same damage at all ranges. TL 86/Blacksun and TL 74 and the Ray of Last Hope do same damage.

71 and 83 TL and the Executioner fusion pistols do same damage. Fusion pistols do same damage at all ranges.

Drake6k
19-07-16, 00:46
I was testing weapon caps and noticed damage caps at 100% now and aiming at 250%. I was able to make a build with a capped Terminator and still have enough hacking for OPs and most belts. This is a fantastic change, it means more build variety and customization. On the live server if you want to maximize your guns damage every single int point needs to be in weapon lore.

William Antrim
19-07-16, 19:25
Beat me to it but nice work.

Fasterbot
19-07-16, 19:34
I will try to make the recycle ones if I got some time this evening, I can't promise ^^.

Could be cool to have a 'vendor' for trash, it's a little time consuming
and so random to visit every crate and trashbin of the city
to get what you need for those guns ;).

Fasterbot
20-07-16, 11:28
Skills : 175/167/0


1 Beggar Nailgun Recycle

20/16/13 red.


2 Lazar Gun Recycle

17/14/11 red.


7 Mendicant SMG Recycle

5/4/3 red, 4 bullets per shot.

kazvall
20-07-16, 18:23
Thanks again, for the help, Fasterbot. Someone just needs to do the WoC pistols =P

Fasterbot
20-07-16, 20:31
No problem, it help me to see that REC seems to have absolutly no influence at all on the quality of the constructed item ^^.

I manage to create one slot on the three but I'm sorry I will not try to make more gun to test every ammo mods,
it's really tooooo much time consuming and with mobs doing insane dmg, crate and trashbin ressources are limited... ;).

saadow
21-07-16, 07:07
I would like to be helpful, since I focus on hacknet and I don't know anybody else who does, I'd like to offer what I've found so far. Attacking the Biotech firewall, I was hitting their ICD's on the path in for 143 (Blue) consistently with each shot. It takes about 30 hack points to fire my offensive software, I'm using "Outstanding amplified upgraded multitasking HEW attack software V. 1.182, TL 56

I don't know if that helps at all, and I'd happily give more information on request or go somewhere to test the software out more extensively!

saadow
21-07-16, 22:08
Just as an addendum to my comment here, I attacked a low-security database by the HEW outside my apartment, and I still did the same amount of damage to the security damon's inside there, so that leads me to believe the enemies don't differ much in some defensive statistics, the damons died a lot faster than the IC's on the firewall, so that would suggest to me their health differs. I do notice that unlike how it used to be, damage doesn't seem to "increase" over time when attacking, it used to be I'd do a small amount of damage, and as I hit them more and more, they'd be dealt more damage.

saadow
22-07-16, 02:48
Sorry for triple posting, but for a quick addendum, I observed some strange behavior. I attacked an Infected Security Daemon, and instead of doing the 143 (blue) I started to do 179 (blue) and sometimes 215 (blue). I think this might be a "headshot" but I can't figure out what I'm hitting differently aside attacking from above and behind.

Zoltan
25-07-16, 23:06
The hitbox is always in movement on some hacknet mobs.

I had a fullstop because of some heavy workload in the RL but I'll continue as soon as possible.

Thank you for your help, you have no clue what this means to us - it's a huge time saver <3

saadow
26-07-16, 00:36
The hitbox is always in movement on some hacknet mobs.

I had a fullstop because of some heavy workload in the RL but I'll continue as soon as possible.

Thank you for your help, you have no clue what this means to us - it's a huge time saver <3

Zoltan I am 100% happy to give more data, I also did a live stream of playing the game last night for my--albeit limited--twitch viewership. I think I will do several more streams. I was playing a new character and I could not get my drone to launch. I had also somehow gotten taken out of the MC5 starting area and got sent to my apartment early (I accidentally clicked on the hacknet thing there, figuring nothing would happen, moment I spawned in, I died)

I was not able to get any data for drones, subsequently, BUT I will keep trying in other ways, promise!

I have more information for you regarding hacknet software. I can use my healing software on other bots, but, it only heals for one hitpoint. Literally just one. IF I HIT IT MULTIPLE TIMES, it goes up by one so long as the duration holds out. I kept doing it and eventually it was healing seven ticks a second, but even when I do over 100 damage and do very little to the enemies health bar, doing one point of healing does nothing at all. Is the hacknet software related to psionic disciplines? Could it be referencing those skills? I feel like I'm not doing the damage my level seventy spy hacker should be doing.

EDIT: Sorry for the edit, I just wanted to state, doing the healing on myself is a LOT more effective, I heal right up quite quickly, much more than 1 point of healing per tick.

saadow
26-07-16, 04:28
12614
Using TL-3 HEW Attack Software, Attacking ICD v1.1.1 16/16, I did 24 / 30 / 36 (Blue) Damage, each shot cost 30 hack points, same amount that my TL-56 Multitasking HEW Attack software takes to fire,

Damage is listed as Energy 30, will test the next software up and edit this post with the information

12615
Using TL-12 HEW Attack software, Damage Energy 38
I did 30 / 38 / 46 (Blue) every shot. Still costs 30 hack to fire each shot

12616
Using TL-32 HEW Attack software, Damage Energy 102. SIGNIFICANT boost to damage over the previous store-bought item. Did 81 / 102 / 122 (Blue) damage. Cost 30 hack points to fire each shot. (Side note: it appears my defensive hacknet software takes 70-80 to fire? Its TL-40 Cryton Defense Software, Absorber for 120 seconds)

12617
Using TL-56 HEW Attack Software, Damage Energy 179, this is my personal software right now, I believe a player made it for me, but I don't remember (Thank you if you did! Super kind of you!) I think this is under level for me, I'm checking the THN ITEMDB for more information on that. 143 / 179 / 215 (Blue) depending on height over the enemy. This is strange, as I got over my enemy with the other software, but no change. I'll try further and edit with new information. I heard an explosion sound and my software failed to fire, I had to let go of the trigger button, and depress it fully again to fire more. 30 Hack to fire

There are two better pieces of hacknet software, I don't know where one is sold, the other appears to be a Phoenix DB item, I remember that being something rather special but I am fairly ignorant. I'll look around aimlessly for the software, though I don't know how I'll get the phoenix db item one.

saadow
26-07-16, 05:05
I'm starting to notice a pattern, there seems to be a high defense, mid defense, low defense point on the hit box, which depends on how high "over' the enemy you seem to be, it seems fairly consistent so long as you are over the top of your enemy. It seems that the "mid defense" region is the same damage value listed as the damage value on the item info screen (like 179) So it seems like the damage, rather than different, is modified in some way, like it's perhaps multiplied by something when it's run on the damage calculation? (Okay, the software is attempting to attack that virtual entity, but it's hitting a hardened part of the code's visual representation, the attack is less effective, versus attacking an exploit in the code that is weaker to your software payload, doing MORE damage than expected)

Zoltan
26-07-16, 14:22
Regarding the false damage infos - I have corrected the info page now:

http://neocron-game.com/media/dmginfo.png

Values in brackets are showing the unmodified base values. The values before the brackets is showing the damage or % you really have.

PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THOSE CHANGES ARE JUST WORKING FOR DAMAGES YET

The damage % explained in short:

Each weapon has its own damage modificator which represents the "effectivity" of that weapon in that weapon family.
Rares / the highest weapon of the family always have a base damage 100%. 100% is maximum a weapon can have.
Base damage can not be changed by skills, conditions or some other influences... its fixed.


The "74%" represents the personal damage effectivity which is based on skill (and the weapons condition in the future aswell).
This page is showing a FIRST LOVE TL 114 on a char with DEX 116 and RC 200 on. There is a maximum of 100% you can reach yet.


Short sidenote: I am planning to remove the skill cap so you can reach values above 100%. This will allow you to *overcharge* / *overcapp* a non-rare weapon.

Load_HeavyLoad
26-07-16, 16:33
Short sidenote: I am planning to remove the skill cap so you can reach values above 100%. This will allow you to *overcharge* / *overcapp* a non-rare weapon.

or do insane damage if one of your mates overcaps your character

Zoltan
26-07-16, 16:39
or do insane damage if one of your mates overcaps your character

I don't understand this ^

You can outweight the malus from the base damage of a weapon but this will need a lot of skillpoints.

saadow
26-07-16, 20:45
The "74%" represents the personal damage effectivity which is based on skill (and the weapons condition in the future aswell).
This page is showing a FIRST LOVE TL 114 on a char with DEX 116 and RC 200 on. There is a maximum of 100% you can reach yet.


Short sidenote: I am planning to remove the skill cap so you can reach values above 100%. This will allow you to *overcharge* / *overcapp* a non-rare weapon.

Looking back, this makes me really happy to see my damage percentage at 100% on all of my software, it's been a long time since I did anything with my character, but it's good to know I'm getting the -best- out of what I have. I would love to see caps removed for better performance, I'd like to see my investment in better hack tools and hack skill reflect on my effectiveness in Hacknet!

Zoltan
26-07-16, 20:46
Looking back, this makes me really happy to see my damage percentage at 100% on all of my software, it's been a long time since I did anything with my character, but it's good to know I'm getting the -best- out of what I have. I would love to see caps removed for better performance, I'd like to see my investment in better hack tools and hack skill reflect on my effectiveness in Hacknet!

^ this :)

saadow
27-07-16, 17:52
I have a Bad Unlabeled Sunray Raygun pistol I picked up, my normal raygun is broken so I couldn't test it. TL 57, 54 Damage Energy, and my personal damage modifier on it is 74%, I did 43 / 54 / 64 (Blue) with it, three shot bursts. Essentially, if I've got 74% of my normal damage, if I had 100%, it should be about 72 damage. (The math is a little off, but if 54 is "75%" then dividing it by 3 should give what 25% would be, multiplying it by 4 should give me what my base damage would be.) So in theory, the damage should really be 57/72/85

Of course, this isn't precise math but that should help with estimating if this weapon is behaving the same way as the others, damage wise.

Zoltan
27-07-16, 18:22
The info about personal and base damage isn't patched yet. JFYI.

saadow
27-07-16, 18:28
The info about personal and base damage isn't patched yet. JFYI.

Thanks for the heads up! I just figured I'd include the information because everything else I was using was at 100%, but if that's not a thing yet I'll leave it be and stick to raw numbers :D I just had a crash (don't accidentally use your hacktool the second you finish the hack mini-game and go back to the normal world while syncing with the new area, whoopsie!)

saadow
27-07-16, 21:54
Hey Zoltan, nice work on the patch! I'm back on and I have a picture to show the new weapon screen like you had it above. This is nice, it's a lot more informative!

12619

Testing out the weapon now, my damage values have changed, 32 / 41 / 49 (blue), so it appears that the calculation wasn't having an effect until now? Was that intended?

saadow
27-07-16, 22:21
For some reason, unlike the raygun, my hacknet software doesn't color-code the damage on the bottom. Here is the four pieces of software I have, with screens, stats (in case they have some influence now) and weapon info for each one.

12621
18/23/27 (blue)

12622
27/31/37 (blue)

12623
63/79/95 (blue)

12624
109/137/164 (blue)

Zoltan
27-07-16, 22:38
Hey Zoltan, nice work on the patch! I'm back on and I have a picture to show the new weapon screen like you had it above. This is nice, it's a lot more informative!

12619

Testing out the weapon now, my damage values have changed, 32 / 41 / 49 (blue), so it appears that the calculation wasn't having an effect until now? Was that intended?

Hope this helps:

http://neocron-game.com/media/dmginfo_explained.png

saadow
27-07-16, 23:01
A ton! Thanks Zoltan!

Zoltan
28-07-16, 00:00
A ton! Thanks Zoltan!

yw :D

kazvall
28-07-16, 00:37
Almost done with H-C weapons... :cool:

kazvall
28-07-16, 02:18
TAKE THIS NEOCRON


Heavy weapons

180 H-C, 102 T-C, 152 WEP


Used X-Beast during testing. During one portion I forgot to redrug after I had a cig. It shouldn't matter, but if needed for your

calculations you can consider 165 H-C skill instead.

Here's some basic observations:



tl21 hand grenade does too much damage,

freezer cannons fire 5 shots but only use 2,

fusion cannons do same damage at all range, as well as different TLs doing same damage,

tl81/100 plasma wave do same damage, tl112/90/78 for Raycannons same damage,

anti-air launchers/warhammer are broken.








Lowtech Heavy Weapon

TL Item name Head/Body/Legs

3 Street Model Grenade Launcher (13 x 2, direct damage red, AOE)

5 Self-constructed Trash Grenade (32 x 2, direct damage red, AOE)

10 F12 Flamer (36/30/24) orange

16 Unlabeled Hand Grenade (32 x 2, direct damage red, AOE)

21 Trash Hand Grenade (162 x 2, direct damage red, AOE)

23 Grenade Launcher (28 x 2, direct damage red, AOE)

24 Self-Constructed Spraycan Flamer (83/69/55) orange

31 Hand Grenade (64 x 2, direct damage red, AOE)

34 Defender Rocket Launcher (126 direct, red AOE)

40 Unlabeled Gatlin Cannon (24/20/16) red

42 Basic Anti Vehicle Rocket Launcher (159 direct, red AOE)

42 Tangent GL-253C Launcher (57 x 2, direct damage red AOE)

46 F24 Flamer (156/130/104) orange

48 Rocket Launcher (160 direct, red AOE)

52 Tangent Hand Grenade (104 x 2, direct damage red AOE)

63 Gatlin Cannon (37/31/25) red

64 Anti Vehicle Rocket Launcher (294, red AOE)

67 Ryker Rocket Launcher (253 direct, red AOE)

70 TL70 flamer (236/197/157) orange

75 Tangent Speed Gun (44/37/29) red

75 TG-275 Freedom Strike (163 x 2, direct damage red AOE)

76 Ryker 'Vulcano' Grenade Launcher (115 x 2, direct damage red AOE)

81 Enhanced Gatlin Cannon (45/38/30) red

90 Judgement Day Launcher (292, direct damage red, AOE)

92 Winding Argument (112 x 2, direct damage red, AOE)

98 Advanced Anti Vehicle Rocket Launcher (330, direct red AOE)

98 F24.88 Flamethrower (259/216/172) orange

100 Ionic Shotgun Cannon (197/164/131) red, one damage number but fires 2 shots

102 Equilibrium of Forces (45/37/30) red

108 Devourer (243/202/162) orange

110 Moon striker (250 direct, AOE red)

115 MIRL-600 Warhammer (Fires and uses the ammo but there is no rocket or damage)


Hightech Heavy Weapon

TL Item name Requirements Item status

19 Unlabeled Lasercannon (15/12/10) 3 blue shots, uses 3 ammo

28 Unlabeled Freezer Cannon (17/14/11) 5 blue shots, uses 2 ammo (!)

40 HEW Slipstream Plasma Wave (46/38/30) 3 blue shots, uses 3 ammo

44 Freezer Cannon (27/23/18) 5 blue shots, uses 2 ammo (!)

49 Basic Anti Air Rocket Launcher (Fires and uses the ammo but there is no rocket or damage)

49 Anti Air Rocket Launcher couldn't find, probably redundant

50 Laser Cannon (39/32/26) 3 blue shots, uses 3 ammo

55 Unlabeled Plasma Cannon (43/36/29) 4 blue shots, uses 4 ammo

58 Unlabeled Atomsmelt Cannon (70 direct damage, AOE red, range doesn't matter)

61 HEW Burner RC275 (120, AOE blue)

63 A&W Burning Air Plasma Wave (72/60/48) 3 blue shots, uses 3 ammo

65 Enhanced Freezer Cannon (40/34/27) 5 blue shots, uses 2 ammo (!)

69 Ryker Lasercannon (53/44/35) 3 blue shots, uses 3 ammo

72 Plasma Cannon (56/47/37) 4 blue shots, uses 4 ammo

75 Prototype Tangent-Laserbeam (58/48/38) 3 blue shots, uses 3 ammo

75 Fusion Cannon (94 direct damage, AOE red, range doesn't matter)

78 RayGun Cannon (142 direct, AOE blue)

81 Tangent Plasma Wave (87/73/58) 3 blue shots, uses 3 ammo

84 Tangent Plasma Cannon (57/47/38) 4 blue shots, uses 4 ammo

87 NCPD TriDe Fusion Cannon (94 direct damage, AOE red, range doesn't matter)

90 S.T.O.R.M. Laser (59/49/39) 3 blue shots, uses 3 ammo

90 Special RC13 Raycannon (142 direct, AOE blue)

93 Advanced Anti Air Rocket Launcher (Fires and uses the ammo but there is no rocket or damage)

97 Summer Leech (47/38/29) 5 blue shots, uses 2 ammo (!)

100 Ravager (87/73/58) 3 blue shots, uses 3 ammo

105 Cursed Soul (59/49/39) 4 blue shots, uses 4 ammo

107 Malediction (94 direct damage, AOE red, range doesn't matter)

110 Special Forces Plasma Wave Not correct faction to test this.

112 Doom Beamer (142, AOE blue)

114 Creed (59/49/39) 3 blue shots, uses 3 ammo

115 Special Raygun Cannon Not correct faction to test this.

kazvall
28-07-16, 02:21
If someone can do WoC pistols, and the Special Forces Plasma/Special Raygun(I'm not the right faction). That would just about conclude all weapons with ammo. I'm tested out!

saadow
28-07-16, 05:13
Since I do a little recycle on the side, I figured I'd try to do the recycle pistols, I can't find the ammo for them, the ammo listed on them is strange and I've never seen a corresponding item in the stores. It's the Lazar Gun and the Mendicant SMG in particular. Is this a known issue or is this recent due to changes?

kazvall
28-07-16, 05:26
At the shooting range, you pull out your weapon, and click on the blue weapon refresh terminal. You then simply reload your weapon, and should be good to go. No need to buy ammo from stores, mate.


E: Damage/information colors are awesome, new % info is awesome. Psyched for this patch. Everyone is going to want to try this out when it's live. Take it from the guy who tested 250+ weapons.

saadow
28-07-16, 06:06
At the shooting range, you pull out your weapon, and click on the blue weapon refresh terminal. You then simply reload your weapon, and should be good to go. No need to buy ammo from stores, mate.


E: Damage/information colors are awesome, new % info is awesome. Psyched for this patch. Everyone is going to want to try this out when it's live. Take it from the guy who tested 250+ weapons.
Is now a good time to say all of my testing was done out in the world without going to the shooting range? D:
(I don't think Hacknet software works over there, but I could have tested my raygun and such there, too)

kazvall
28-07-16, 06:16
Well, there's no Hacknet Shooting Range, so I can't fault you for that.

Fasterbot
28-07-16, 10:34
All you need to do now Kaz, is to re-do all this with all ammo mods ! ;).

The TL49 Anti Air Rocket Launcher seems to be CM db item,
it's not on one of the two hacknetdb guys like the BD blackmarket pumpgun ?

Xanthos
28-07-16, 16:21
You can buy the TL 49 'Basic Anti Air Rocket Launcher' from the "Cannons - Hightech" Trader, the TL 65 'Unregistered 'Black Market' Pumpgun' from the HN Guy.

Zoltan
28-07-16, 23:58
All you need to do now Kaz, is to re-do all this with all ammo mods ! ;).


But not yet ;)

kazvall
29-07-16, 00:41
:eek:

saadow
29-07-16, 02:19
But not yet ;)

Hey Zoltan, how can I test the modifications for hacknet software to test for you? I know it's not time yet, and I still have other software to test (I've got to get my INT high enough, one more level'll do it!) I know there's no ammo changes to test but I figure seeing if the software mods work might be a good idea too, to insure they balance out well

I don't exactly have constructors or researchers here and given my software is kind of weak, I'm having trouble fighting the mobs to get codebreakers, if they're beating me up here, I can imagine how bad it'll get on the outer network

saadow
29-07-16, 05:15
Uh, so I was out wandering into the wasteland because I felt like getting lost in places I was drastically underequipped to survive in, and I found this Stealth Activator for sale. The damage is a little strange, and I thought it was worth bringing up here, Zoltan!

12625

Fasterbot
29-07-16, 11:06
(I've got to get my INT high enough, one more level'll do it!)
If you're on Vedeena, just go to the neoconstruct, find the dark brown altar to the Ceres temple
and you'll find a hard mission guy, kill the rat (becare, he does insane damages) and there you are capped ^^.

Zoltan
29-07-16, 13:23
I wonder why "USEITEMS" are showing damage values.

I truely believe I have to rewrite the whole page instead of fixing single lines. gaaah

saadow
29-07-16, 16:19
I wonder why "USEITEMS" are showing damage values.

I truely believe I have to rewrite the whole page instead of fixing single lines. gaaah

<3 ?

*Hands Zoltan a 'Sorry I made you sad' card* :[

saadow
29-07-16, 16:22
If you're on Vedeena, just go to the neoconstruct, find the dark brown altar to the Ceres temple
and you'll find a hard mission guy, kill the rat (becare, he does insane damages) and there you are capped ^^.

I was totally trying to do it without doing stuff like that, since I'm on Vedeena and I love Neocron, I was just trying to do it through play. It -is- hard though, and I don't remember anything. I'll have to use that altar, it would make things more expedient and I don't want to waste their time :D

It'll have to wait until I get home from either of my workplaces today, but thanks for the tip!

Odimara Orca
02-08-16, 09:30
Hows it looking with that change list for armor / implant values.

And can you give us the new weapon Damage Formula + Base Weapon Damage for all the Weapons?

Really a SQL dump with all the necessary values selectef would be enough!

Gruss

Andrin

Trivaldi
02-08-16, 11:04
Hows it looking with that change list for armor / implant values.
Further changes to this have been paused while the final parts of the new weapon system are implemented. Once we're happy with the end result of weapons, armour and implants (more so the latter) will be readjusted to ensure their values fit into the desired curve for the new system.

We're undecided on whether we'll be sharing the damage formula at this time. We might, we might not. This is purely because back in the day there was a certain amount of the unknown, in the original Neocron when the maths was unknown there was constant organic variation and shift in setups. This unknown gave runners something to chase in the hunt for The Perfect Setup, there were constant adjustments to make sure every point was perfectly spent.

Having all the maths out of the gate caused a lot of people to default to cookie cutter setups. An entirely new reimplementation of the system gives us the opportunity to return value to all that setup creation skill. There's a (re)new(ed) element of the game to master, an element which a lot of players were very fond of.

Odimara Orca
02-08-16, 17:10
Thanks for the heads up Trivaldi, seems very reasonable.

Regards Odi

Odimara Orca
02-08-16, 18:39
Okay I'm ready on the Testserver.

What do you guys need tested?

I Have Access to a Monk/Spy/Tank.

Tell me what to do and I'll give you a similar list to kazvall!

Odimara Orca
02-08-16, 21:19
Jesus just realized Kazvall already did EVERYTHING.

Somebody give him a Golden PA.

Drake6k
02-08-16, 22:00
Jesus just realized Kazvall already did EVERYTHING.

Somebody give him a Golden PA.
+1
He deserves something. One gold PA wouldn't hurt anyone.

Fasterbot
02-08-16, 22:41
So I deserve one too, recycled weapons are shit ! ;).

But I will prefer a bat trophy ^^.

kazvall
03-08-16, 03:10
Jesus just realized Kazvall already did EVERYTHING.

Somebody give him a Golden PA.

Yes, yes, please. I would love a Golden Melee PA on my tank, Zhalfer. And maybe 2 WoC discs + 4 million nc. He's got enough str exp to use it!

Odimara Orca
04-08-16, 02:30
Yes, yes, please. I would love a Golden Melee PA on my tank, Zhalfer. And maybe 2 WoC discs + 4 million nc. He's got enough str exp to use it!

If NST gives you anything more than the PA I'll be gone from this game.

If they start handing out nc and woc disks they intervene in the flow of the game.

Next thing is pay 2 win.

kazvall
04-08-16, 03:50
I'll farm the damn discs + the cash myself. But, it didn't hurt to ask. :p

Zoltan
04-08-16, 11:22
If NST gives you anything more than the PA I'll be gone from this game.

If they start handing out nc and woc disks they intervene in the flow of the game.

Next thing is pay 2 win.

To quote yourself ;p


Jesus just realized Kazvall already did EVERYTHING.

Somebody give him a Golden PA.

Good luck ;D

Odimara Orca
04-08-16, 13:24
Hey Zoltan

Can we Start with Drones / PSI Modules?

What about Ammo Mods?

Can you give us an ETA?

Regards

Odi

kazvall
04-08-16, 17:24
Good luck ;D

If not you, then who? ;)

kazvall
04-08-16, 17:35
You know, I didn't do this testing with any sort of reward in mind. Except to get a patch out for Titan before this NC1 business comes along. No one was stepping up to do it, so I took it upon myself. I probably spent a good 10-12 hours testing all the weapons with ammo.

Does this mean I deserve a reward? I don't know. I would appreciate one, surely. It might even go a long way to show others that testing on Vedeena is more "rewarding". Because what I saw was no one testing anything for months and months.

hatmankh
04-08-16, 21:18
I personally wouldn't mind if you got the PA but I'm against it because of the controversy it could and let's face it, almost certainly would cause. However there are other ways to acknowledge the testers efforts. Inclusion in the game's credits, (not sure about this one though, do NST have the rights to do this?) adding new fluff npcs with the tester's names and if there must be a reward an item that can be obtained by anyone in-game should be fine.

hudsonbeck
04-08-16, 22:35
You know, I didn't do this testing with any sort of reward in mind. Except to get a patch out for Titan before this NC1 business comes along. No one was stepping up to do it, so I took it upon myself. I probably spent a good 10-12 hours testing all the weapons with ammo.

Does this mean I deserve a reward? I don't know. I would appreciate one, surely. It might even go a long way to show others that testing on Vedeena is more "rewarding". Because what I saw was no one testing anything for months and months.
Is there anything specific you need? I dont have everything anymore but if I have something you need, I would be happy to give it to you as a "Thank You" from another player. I am not able to help much due to RL demands but I appreciate what you and other players do to help move things forward.

Odimara Orca
05-08-16, 01:38
Is there anything specific you need? I dont have everything anymore but if I have something you need, I would be happy to give it to you as a "Thank You" from another player. I am not able to help much due to RL demands but I appreciate what you and other players do to help move things forward.

Well I don't see a huge issue with a vanity item.


But then Controvery is nerver far away...

kazvall
05-08-16, 03:01
I'm a bit confused how getting a Gold Melee PA, which is much worse than the regular PA because it has -athletics, would cause any controversy. But hey I guess giving me something that's worse than what's in game, wouldn't be right because others would be jealous of how terrible the armor is. :D


Not to mention I still have to get 2 woc discs and 4 million to use it. Already have a silver PA for Melee.

Again, what's the issue with getting the Gold PA? I'll look too cool while having worse stats? I don't understand.


(exactly, gold melee pa is a vanity item only)

Odimara Orca
05-08-16, 12:14
Well in the end it's the call of the Team sorry.

If they don't want to give you one you won't get one ;-) but I do think it would be alright.

William Antrim
07-08-16, 08:14
Get it on the test server to wear whilst you are testing. Problem solved.


The sense of entitlement is strong in this thread.

Odimara Orca
07-08-16, 14:41
Get it on the test server to wear whilst you are testing. Problem solved.


The sense of entitlement is strong in this thread.

Oh shut up.

He did all the testing without asking for anything. Where is the entitlement in that.

The gold PA was my idea and I think it's justified.

Wind your neck in.

Massaker
07-08-16, 15:16
Oh shut up.

He did all the testing without asking for anything. Where is the entitlement in that.

The gold PA was my idea and I think it's justified.

Wind your neck in.

Testing things on the test server is on volunteer base and not "I will test as much as I can to hope that I get a item drop". No one got a gold pa since the launch of Titan and there were a lot events with a proper contant that could made a gold pa drop valid.
we honor those people that test a lot on the test server with constructive disussions.

OLD No.7 BrAnD
07-08-16, 17:47
Testing things on the test server is on volunteer base and not "I will test as much as I can to hope that I get a item drop". No one got a gold pa since the launch of Titan and there were a lot events with a proper contant that could made a gold pa drop valid.
we honor those people that test a lot on the test server with constructive disussions.

This!

Odimara Orca
07-08-16, 17:49
Testing things on the test server is on volunteer base and not "I will test as much as I can to hope that I get a item drop". No one got a gold pa since the launch of Titan and there were a lot events with a proper contant that could made a gold pa drop valid.
we honor those people that test a lot on the test server with constructive disussions.

I absolutely agree. As I said the gold PA was my SUGGESTION not his own.

So any talk about entitlement is uncalled for.

What do you mean you "honor" them with constructive discussions?

Btw. still waiting for weapon mods and go for apu/ppu stuff and drones so we can finally make some progress....

kazvall
07-08-16, 18:30
People care more about me not getting a gold PA with worse stats than the regular PA, than they care about the testing I did. I love it.

If you guys care that much, I'd also love to see you volunteer your time on Vedeena. :D

kazvall
07-08-16, 18:36
Or better yet, don't do any testing. Come in here when you've seen other people test for 10+ hours, and just tell them they don't deserve anything for their time. That's probably a better way to get this patch out.

brand
07-08-16, 19:09
seems like there is nothing interesting going on here atm when i read the posts the last few days. so what is being done on the testserver atm? have you started yet to balance the weapon dmg or do you have any plans yet how the balancing should look like in the future and what you want to change?

Odimara Orca
07-08-16, 20:59
seems like there is nothing interesting going on here atm when i read the posts the last few days. so what is being done on the testserver atm? have you started yet to balance the weapon dmg or do you have any plans yet how the balancing should look like in the future and what you want to change?

Yes it has started and has been tested.

ATM I'm personally waiting for the go with MOD's + APU/PPU Modules + Drones so we can wrap it up and bring it live.

But I got no idea when this will be ready for testing.

brand
07-08-16, 22:53
and is there already a plan how the dmg of the diffenrt wepaon typed is. is hc still the weakest, are there any changes planed for runspeed and apu and the heals?

Odimara Orca
07-08-16, 22:59
and is there already a plan how the dmg of the diffenrt wepaon typed is. is hc still the weakest, are there any changes planed for runspeed and apu and the heals?

First Code and calulations.

Then adjustments will be way easier for NST.

Odimara Orca
08-08-16, 21:28
So any ETA on the final testing run and when the patch will hit Titan?

Or are we again expected to wait for another 6 months until we can move on?

kazvall
08-08-16, 22:16
I think many have already moved on... but, I'm still here waiting. Heh.

Bifrost
08-08-16, 23:13
So any ETA on the final testing run and when the patch will hit Titan?

Or are we again expected to wait for another 6 months until we can move on?

If you are expecting us to give a ETA, have a read on this post (http://forum.neocron-game.com/showthread.php?156556-Neocron-Moving-Forward&p=2235326&viewfull=1#post2235326) that was linked in the first post of this thread. That will give you an idea on the issues we are up against. In other words when it's done and it's certainly not done yet. Balancing when there are code design issues to fix is a hard problem.

There will be more test patches which will need some more testing. The date for when the patch goes to Titan will be given by us when we are happy with it and not before, and I'm sure you will be excited when that day comes. :)

Odimara Orca
08-08-16, 23:46
If you are expecting us to give a ETA, have a read on this post (http://forum.neocron-game.com/showthread.php?156556-Neocron-Moving-Forward&p=2235326&viewfull=1#post2235326) that was linked in the first post of this thread. That will give you an idea on the issues we are up against. In other words when it's done and it's certainly not done yet. Balancing when there are code design issues to fix is a hard problem.

There will be more test patches which will need some more testing. The date for when the patch goes to Titan will be given by us when we are happy with it and not before, and I'm sure you will be excited when that day comes. :)

Okay fair.

What bout an ETA for Drones / APU,PPU / Weapon Mods to hit Veedeena not Titan, so I as a player can do the testing so we can finally get this patch live.

If your answer is that after all this time you still have insurmountable problems which will delay progress of these core Issues into months rather then weeks then I'd suggest stating this transparently and publicly instead of asking for testers in this thread and then leaving them out to dry.

Zoltan
09-08-16, 00:05
I have implemented the overcap now I was talking about some days ago:

On rares:

http://neocron-game.com/media/overcapp.png

On non-rares:

http://neocron-game.com/media/overcapp2.png

These changes are getting deployed with the next vedeena patch.

[Edit: Please discuss this in this thread (http://forum.neocron-game.com/showthread.php?156578-Overcap-discussion)]

Odimara Orca
09-08-16, 00:24
What do you need tested in regards to overcap?

Bifrost
09-08-16, 00:43
Okay fair.

What bout an ETA for Drones / APU,PPU / Weapon Mods to hit Veedeena not Titan, so I as a player can do the testing so we can finally get this patch live.

I'm expecting in the next patch you be able to test at least APU and PPU. Let's take small steps at a time to get each set of weapons types right.



If your answer is that after all this time you still have insurmountable problems which will delay progress of these core Issues into months rather then weeks then I'd suggest stating this transparently and publicly instead of asking for testers in this thread and then leaving them out to dry.

Being transparent I tell you what the biggest problem we all have on the NST - time and the lack of it. Like the rest of the team I have a day job. Today I didn't finish until gone 9pm. We would all love to work on NC all day, but that's not possible. So my answer is again, when it's done.

As for testing, thanks again for all stepping up and providing us with the results. Zoltan has said he's happy with the results and has moved onto to the next issues.


What do you need tested in regards to overcap?

Before you test it why don't you discuss what you think overcap means first? (In a new thread please.)

Details for testing of overcap will appear in the next patch thread. So for now, get ingame, get some redflash and enjoy a few fights down Pepper Park. The next patch on Veedeena will come quicker that way. :)

Bifrost
09-08-16, 10:56
/mod: The discussion on the overcap feature has been moved to a new thread (http://forum.neocron-game.com/showthread.php?156578-Overcap-discussion). Please continue there.

Carry on. :)

No1male
13-08-16, 10:31
Morning all,

just about to jump on for some testing. Are then any weapons you want me to test? Was going to look at the rifles this morning.