View Full Version : Kirk has no hope for NC 3
Here are new statements from Kirk lenke regarding NC3 (in german (https://www.facebook.com/Neocron.Fans/?fref=ts)). But what about NC2CE?
"dears, it will probably remain a dream. We had financing on paper, but, however, investors turned out to be a joke.
All work on the prototype, with already functioning and Unreal Mission System Tech was stopped and I doubt that it can start again, because there's just no money." (my translation)
William Antrim
09-12-15, 15:39
I cant see FB at work.
Can you transcribe or just cut and paste it? Its good that you have posted it but it is pretty monumental for the community and I can see this thread either getting a load of "well thats that then" style replies or fanboi explosions.
Investors turning out to be a joke worries me the most tbh. I hope kirk has heard of crowdfunding but I really do worry if its not him thats the joke.
Kirk Lenke Ihr Lieben, es wird wohl ein Traum bleiben. Wir hatten quasi eine Finanzierung auf dem Papier stehen, aber die Investoren haben sich als Blender herausgestellt.
Die Arbeiten am Prototypen, mit bereits funktionierenden Missionssystem und Unreal Tech wurden eingestellt und ich bezweifle, dass es noch einmal starten kann, denn Gelder gibt's einfach keine.
8 Std.
Neocron Fan Club
Neocron Fan Club Danke für dieses ehrliche Statement.
Sehr Schade, dass es so gekommen ist „frown“-Emoticon.
Es war bzw. ist vom Spielerlebnis einfach das beste Game....Mehr anzeigen
5 Std. · Bearbeitet
Kirk Lenke
Kirk Lenke Das macht wohl wenig Sinn, da wir bei dem Prototypen mit Placeholdern gearbeitet haben und den Schwerpunkt aufs Coding gelegt haben.
5 Std.
Neocron Fan Club
Neocron Fan Club Achso, ich hatte gehofft ein bisschen Remaked Neocron zu sehen.
5 Std.
Kirk Lenke
Kirk Lenke Das wäre Bestandteil des Großen Ganzen gewesen „wink“-Emoticon
5 Std.
Gert Lindengruen
Gert Lindengruen 11/10, würde
1 · 12 Std.
Dirk Wendt
Dirk Wendt Immer, wenn ich so etwas sehe, keimt in mir ein Hoffnungsschimmer auf.
3 · 9 Std.
Anil René Böhm
Anil René Böhm Ehm wie wäre es mit crowdfunding !!! Und bitte erzählt mir nicht das das rechtlich nicht geht !! Dieses Spiel ist einfach da beste
3 Std.
Mario Burgard
Mario Burgard Was wäre das klasse... Da träumt wohl auch ein Teil des Teams von etwas ganz Großen.
9 Std.
Jens Metzig
Jens Metzig Sehr schöne arbeit und was NC angeht einfach immer am Ball bleiben, irgendwann ergibt sich da schon eine möglichkeit „smile“-Emoticon
5 Std.
Christopher Weber
Christopher Weber Neocron ist ein Leuchtfeuer für die SIFIC MMORPGs es darf niemals sterben
2 · 9 Std.
Markus Bange
Markus Bange wenns nen kickstart zu NC 3 gibt brauch ich direkt mal den link bitte „tongue“-Emoticon
2 Std.
Denni Extbreakz
Denni Extbreakz Schickes Teil. Ja, NC darf niemals sterben und ohh das Spiel is ja soo toll. 2% Aktiv - wo seid ihr ?? „smile“-Emoticon
Kirk, das sind keine tollen News „frown“-Emoticon
6 Std.
2 Antworten · 2 Std.
Markus Höltgebaum
Markus Höltgebaum Wieviel müsste den ein Investor investieren für das Projekt ?
4 Std.
Erich Balling
Erich Balling Ein richtiger Duke braucht keine Power Armor... „smile“-Emoticon
1 · 9 Std..
raw copypaste.
Dang I can't wait for a translate of that !
If investors aren't signing in then you need to find others.
Investors aren't the issue. It must be Kirk's passion is no more for NC :-/
Terror_Nonne
09-12-15, 19:59
whats about kickstarter?
hudsonbeck
09-12-15, 22:03
Dang I can't wait for a translate of that !
If investors aren't signing in then you need to find others.
Investors aren't the issue. It must be Kirk's passion is no more for NC :-/
12568
12568google translate is terrible sometimes
Hell-demon
10-12-15, 01:00
This is not good but can't say I'm shocked. Kirk has been quiet for a while.
As for crowd funding I think that comes with its own pitfalls. Not every game that gets backed on kickstarter gets made or gets made to the standard promised. Let's be honest and look at some harsh truths, the population that play is low how many serious backers can we get? A new MMO costs millions and who here can tell me they have that stashed down their couch?
Is it any wonder that investors have bailed or have no interest?
You are essentially saying " Hey back this game which never made it as a huge commercial success before, that has a diminishing community, has to compete with other MMO's in an increasing saturated market and has ties to a name that has terrible reviews associated with it. Investment opportunity of the year!"
Truth.
Have more luck creating an entirely new I.P. We all love neocron here but it has an image problem and some serious baggage. We are stuck at an impasse. Can't get a new neocron and current neocron is practically retro, yet we still get these modern hipsters to play it :p
google translate is terrible sometimes
It is terrible, who ever translated mine (probably google too) said the investors "have a blender" rather than "have emerged as blender".
hudsonbeck
10-12-15, 15:35
It was pretty bad in this case. I speak no German but travel to DE and CH often from the US and it usually gets me by. I just hate when I go to a restaurant and no one speaks English and I have no cellular service! I just point at something and its always good.
I mostly posted the screenshot for the pics for William :)
We can always hope one of us hits the big lottery... I know if I did, I would look into resurrecting NC.
William Antrim
10-12-15, 18:19
Indie developers make games on shoestring budgets all the time. If you just changed the name of the game and kept the core mechanics you'd be fine.
Like that pile of shite exile online tried to do.
Hell-demon
10-12-15, 22:45
Indie developers make games on shoestring budgets all the time. If you just changed the name of the game and kept the core mechanics you'd be fine.
Like that pile of shite exile online tried to do.
Very true but Neocron is something quite ambitious if your an indie developer. This isn't your rougelike 32-bit game backed on Kickstarter.
To make neocron 3, or at least a fully fleshed out version that can be a profitable project, you need a studio. You need a host of coders, animators, designers and testers, plus any other thing I've left out. Then you need a lot of time to develop it while making sure everyone gets paid and development is on track.
Then you need to find a way to keep it going. Microtransactions out the arse will do. That's what everyone else will do so you have to compete. Subscriptions wont cut it when you've got loads of free MMO's out there, so you get a cash shop going but you also need to draw in a new crowd.
Advertising out the arse and you will need to pander to your new audience so you will have to change aspects of the game to suit them.
My point is that the neocron we know and love is from a different age. A new Neocron...well get those COD kiddies and microtransactions and that is Neocron 3.
fuck no, dont say that hell-demon, we dont need that korean style microtransactions shit!!
say no to cash shops!
Hell-demon
10-12-15, 23:39
But realistically how would Neocron make it's money? Even Eve online now sells cosmetic skins for ships and cosmetic items for players and that still has the subscription model.
It's just a sign of the times. MMO's need cash shops. A new neocron would have one. What kind of cash shop is the crucial part.
Pay 2 win?
Or pay for conveniance and cosmetics?
The latter is better.
While there is tons of "Free MMO's" out there, non of them are cyberpunk. This game may never appeal to more than a few thousand (more for than enough to keep the game feeling populated) it all comes down to how big money they want to make. I feel a niche crowd would happily pay a subscription to play an updated Neocron. So if they charged £8.99 for say 5000 people then your pulling in around 500k a year.
The main issue seems the initial investment to get the game up to scratch and advertisement. Hard to estimate that though.
But realistically how would Neocron make it's money? Even Eve online now sells cosmetic skins for ships and cosmetic items for players and that still has the subscription model.
It's just a sign of the times. MMO's need cash shops. A new neocron would have one. What kind of cash shop is the crucial part.
Pay 2 win?
Or pay for conveniance and cosmetics?
The latter is better.
unfotunetaly the only F2P model that works is pay for skins only, and even that if there is a skin that camoflages you way more than others its still pay 2 win.
did you play black prophecy? its not just the asians who rip you off with F2P model.
William Antrim
11-12-15, 09:25
If there was the will there would be a way. A good captain can navigate through the most troubling waters.
I don't think there is the will in all honesty. Setting up a business is easy, making it a success is the hard part. What people say especially on the internet and what they do in life can be very different. If there was any motivation left we would have seen it long before now.
Hell-demon
11-12-15, 20:49
Now there's a big bitter pill of truth. A few years ago there was hype with a Neocron 3 poster but Kirk doesn't even post here anymore.
I play for nostalgia like so many here and atmosphere. I go down empty streets and remember moments with friends gone by. Its got a gritty noir feeling to it but not in a cyberpunk way.
I'm just amazed this relic of a game is still alive - albeit on life support and occasionally the catheter gets replaced.
Now there's a big bitter pill of truth. A few years ago there was hype with a Neocron 3 poster but Kirk doesn't even post here anymore.
I play for nostalgia like so many here and atmosphere. I go down empty streets and remember moments with friends gone by. Its got a gritty noir feeling to it but not in a cyberpunk way.
I'm just amazed this relic of a game is still alive - albeit on life support and occasionally the catheter gets replaced.
They need to sell Neocron's IP and assets to someone for a realistic price.
There already was a working Neocron demo/game using the Unity engine. They had managed to translate assets from Neocron into a format that they could use with modern tools and then into Unity.
If someone was able to buy the rights to the IP, assets and the Unity demo/version files. That would be a massive start on importing the whole game whole into a modern format on a modern engine. From that things like unifying zone's into much larger zones could be done (eventually it could be made seamless). I'm not saying it would be easy but very much doable.
As for sustaining the game (after the initial capital, to pay for the conversion and updating work), the best better would be through cosmetic items/skins. There is always a demand for this kind of thing, and if you price them sensibly people will do it frequently. Charging a small fee to allow people to completely change the appearance of your character is another good way to make money.
Failing acquiring the IP and assets, then as someone has already suggested creating a spiritual successor is the way to go.
As for the costs, what needs to be done is to develop something that has feature parity with Neocron. Nothing more. (maybe even lose some features that don't serve a purpose)
If you have a look at something like Ark, they developed that game in 6 months, when they launched for early access. The game had/has bugs, but none worse than what Neocron suffered for year. (Fatal Exceptions when zoning anyone?)
They have a working, crafting system, stats, experience, mobs with differing stats/armor etc etc. Why do I mention this? Because these are all the features that Neocron uses or has things based on.
Anyway, I think I've made my point. It wouldn't be easy, but it's not outside of the realms of possibility and it could be done for far less than the millions people seem to think. In fact quite often games with a small budget have a higher chance of success, because they have to keep to realistic expectations.
All this talk of NC3 is pointless and will never happen. I've only had NC installed a week and the server has been up and down more times than a fiddlers elbow. I can't figure out what is happening. Is this a serious attempt to keep the game alive or a hobby? According to forums I see 40 plus people reading and yet no more than 15 online. People more interested in reliving nostalgia than playing? I would more rather see a complete ui rework bringing into a playable state than a pipe dream for NC3. Squinting is pissing me off big time
All is pointless and will never happen.
there, I fixed that for you.
On a more serious note and to your question regarding the efforts to keep NC alive - at this point it is very much a hobby of those who host the infrastructure and dabble with the code/game. The guy who supposedly holds the trademark and IP for the game is waiting for a rainbow farting unicorn investor to come buy and drop a million or two, while all realistic suggestions for raising funds and kickstarting sustainable development have been blocked off. It is a lost cause.
Im sorry, but have to say.
Maybe... maybe... someone should start from scratch getting in mind what things make Neocron so unique.
I do not mind about calling it Neocron or Furdrum, but I am pretty sure that a cyberpunk game up to date will rock... not sure ?, just see the hype about Cyberpunk 2077.
whats about kickstarter?
This.
If they make a really nice kickstarter with videos, images, and a nice overall presentation I think this would do well on Kickstarter. It also depends on how much they need. Even with a kickstarter it probably wouldn't make nearly enough for what they actually need to finish the project.
unc0nnected
02-01-16, 23:39
This.
If they make a really nice kickstarter with videos, images, and a nice overall presentation I think this would do well on Kickstarter. It also depends on how much they need. Even with a kickstarter it probably wouldn't make nearly enough for what they actually need to finish the project.
With an distributed indie team and an indie budget you're going to be looking at $500,000 min to get a beta up and running, mainly because of the time/cost savings of not having to concept every character/mob from scratch nor having to design each and every system including balance testing and whatnot from scratch. I'd be more comfortable with $750,000 - $1,000,000 and then whatever else on top of that for post-beta
An NC kickstarter could probably raise a couple hundred grand I'd say but 500k-1000k is out of the question for this game imho :(
William Antrim
04-01-16, 17:06
You need someone with business acumen to run a successful kickstarter campaign. Kirk is not that person.
Terror_Nonne
06-01-16, 16:00
Im sorry, but have to say.
Maybe... maybe... someone should start from scratch getting in mind what things make Neocron so unique.
I do not mind about calling it Neocron or Furdrum, but I am pretty sure that a cyberpunk game up to date will rock... not sure ?, just see the hype about Cyberpunk 2077.This.^
If this dude can start a Kickstarter and get money then Neocron could definitely do it.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1793481042/star-wars-open-world-rpg/description
Hell-demon
07-01-16, 06:29
If this dude can start a Kickstarter and get money then Neocron could definitely do it.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1793481042/star-wars-open-world-rpg/description
I don't think that's a good example. Basically an "ideas guy" who thinks you can make a massive open wolrd RPG for £200,000ish. He wants it to be like the witcher 3 which had a production budget of £83 million. Also I wonder what Disney's take on this will be?
Kickstarter is not a great platform and is often the last refuge of people bad at business.
i have a feeling that is a joke or put together by a kid.
William Antrim
07-01-16, 14:31
The NC IP is also partially owned by the bank. It is probably entirely owned by the bank tbh and there is a bankruptcy order on the parent company. Any attempt to make a new game would also have to settle that debt to make use of any of the IP.
The current team is too small to do anything and clearly doesnt have the will beyond tweaking the current game and playing about with code under the hood and Kirk is not an entrepreneur. Anyone who blames the "investors" is clearly lacking a clue.
In short the game needs a project lead who has the will, motivation and business acumen to see it through. I havent seen that here at all. I think zoltan seems to be happy to just plod along being a code monkey and going "aw shucks, well i tried" when the server dies.
I had this conversation with him once before on these forums and lo and behold the thread got deleted.
Edit: I looked at the Kickstarter link - Who the fuck is Obi Jim Kenobi. He lost all credibility there.
Hell-demon
07-01-16, 19:15
The NC IP is also partially owned by the bank. It is probably entirely owned by the bank tbh and there is a bankruptcy order on the parent company. Any attempt to make a new game would also have to settle that debt to make use of any of the IP.
The current team is too small to do anything and clearly doesnt have the will beyond tweaking the current game and playing about with code under the hood and Kirk is not an entrepreneur. Anyone who blames the "investors" is clearly lacking a clue.
In short the game needs a project lead who has the will, motivation and business acumen to see it through. I havent seen that here at all. I think zoltan seems to be happy to just plod along being a code monkey and going "aw shucks, well i tried" when the server dies.
I had this conversation with him once before on these forums and lo and behold the thread got deleted.
Edit: I looked at the Kickstarter link - Who the fuck is Obi Jim Kenobi. He lost all credibility there.
ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7F4z8FV6ME
ashley watts
23-01-16, 02:09
Neocron 3 published on kickstarter making as much money as Star Citizen would be perfect.
Why is the gaming community so wrapped up on magical sword and fairy games.
Neocron 3 published on kickstarter making as much money as Star Citizen would be perfect.
Why is the gaming community so wrapped up on magical sword and fairy games.
yes, all those magical swords and fairies in star citizen are really annoying.
dark_reaper
15-02-16, 20:02
It has been a long time since I was last on here, and I know that this post is a bit dated. But reading this did remind me of a game that is currently in development called Technolust. They had two successful kickstarter campaigns and the work that Iris is putting into the game is outstanding for a small crew.
http://irisvirtualreality.com/un-portfolio/technolust-2/
It has been a long time since I was last on here, and I know that this post is a bit dated. But reading this did remind me of a game that is currently in development called Technolust. They had two successful kickstarter campaigns and the work that Iris is putting into the game is outstanding for a small crew.
http://irisvirtualreality.com/un-portfolio/technolust-2/
Looks good but it seems when you go to the steam green light page there's nothing since 2014. Also appears to be just single player?
dark_reaper
16-02-16, 03:42
Yeah, it is a single player, but they have been constantly working on the game. Technolust is also primarily developed for VR.
Neocron 3 published on kickstarter making as much money as Star Citizen would be perfect.
Why is the gaming community so wrapped up on magical sword and fairy games.
Because there were three games with exorbitant success in the past .... Neverwinter Nights ....first MMO concept - Fantasy setting based on stories, Ultima Online ....fantasy concept and Everquest....surprise...fantasy based.
And from this time on, any developers and fanbases see Fantasy, Fairies, Elves, Orcs, etc is the key to make the money.
No one needs to think about something new, just take something old, give it a new look and a prolly promising name...and voila, a "new" milestone in gaming history is set.
Anyone ever played EQ2 parallel to WoW ?
They were released with a difference of 16 days ....and both have the same gameplay, the same setting.....god damn even the bugs and errors are the same...
The only way to get a Neocron III ist not to build a Neocron III .....it is to get the guts of good old NC, sit down and make something completely new with them (on paper first), add some new mechanics and build a complete new game, with a new fresh name.
I've been in so many Scifi/Cyberpunk themed forums, communities, sites, games ....and one thing is always the same.....they are crying about an awesome scifi/cyberpunk mmo.
btw, for all those watching around and searching for new worlds....
Project: Genom Is a "new" Star on the Scifi market and actually in early alpha stage, but it looks promising.
http://www.pgenom.com
NC3 was always a pipe dream. But sometimes it's nice to dream...
It's sad to read, that the new start of NC failed due to "fake investors". :-(
ashley watts
19-02-16, 05:38
Because there were three games with exorbitant success in the past .... Neverwinter Nights ....first MMO concept - Fantasy setting based on stories, Ultima Online ....fantasy concept and Everquest....surprise...fantasy based.
And from this time on, any developers and fanbases see Fantasy, Fairies, Elves, Orcs, etc is the key to make the money.
No one needs to think about something new, just take something old, give it a new look and a prolly promising name...and voila, a "new" milestone in gaming history is set.
Anyone ever played EQ2 parallel to WoW ?
They were released with a difference of 16 days ....and both have the same gameplay, the same setting.....god damn even the bugs and errors are the same...
The only way to get a Neocron III ist not to build a Neocron III .....it is to get the guts of good old NC, sit down and make something completely new with them (on paper first), add some new mechanics and build a complete new game, with a new fresh name.
I've been in so many Scifi/Cyberpunk themed forums, communities, sites, games ....and one thing is always the same.....they are crying about an awesome scifi/cyberpunk mmo.
btw, for all those watching around and searching for new worlds....
Project: Genom Is a "new" Star on the Scifi market and actually in early alpha stage, but it looks promising.
http://www.pgenom.com
Indeed, that's why there are so many "Zombie open world survival" games plague the gaming industry. Once someone saw DAYZ making money every single peanut wanted to start making the same type of games.
Apocalypsox
22-02-16, 00:55
Crowdfunding is the only way I ever see NC3 coming about, and I would expect it to come from virtually none of the people currently working on the game.
The only way I ever see it happening would be the full development of a tech demo, say a recreation of Plaza 2 from NC1. Aggy cellars, weapons vendors, apartments, etc. This could be done by a small team of people in say 6 months. 3-6 dedicated folks working on it in their off-time.
That would at least get people an idea of what it would be like and would show proof of concept. Once you have a proof of concept you need to shift all attention and effort to marketing. If my adventures in entrepreneurship the last few years have taught me anything, it's that the sooner you can get money coming in the better off you are, regardless of fit and finish of product. As long as the consumer understands it's a developing product they don't give two shits. They are happy with the vision in their head of what it may become.
William Antrim
22-02-16, 14:45
If you took the good parts of Elder Scrolls Online and set them into a Fallout style world you would probably get something akin to NC, the problem is I do not work for Bethesda.
It is almost 2019 anyway now.
All of the good cyberpunk took place in 2019.... maybe then we will get our wish, or just balancing will be finished. :)
[QUOTE=William Antrim;2234134]If you took the good parts of Elder Scrolls Online and set them into a Fallout style world you would probably get something akin to NC, the problem is I do not work for Bethesda.
I am sorry, but I lost it reading that... There was nothing good about that game, which is why it died off within a month or so.
I am sorry, but I lost it reading that... There was nothing good about that game, which is why it died off within a month or so.
While not being something I would consider a good MMO, ESO is much better than most of the trash MMOs that have been coming out since WoW. And saying it died off within a month is ludicrous bullshit.
For all that u need ppl which have a vision and be able to create a company or have one.
This is not a thing what you can do in your freetime,ppl need money to can life with his family or whatever they are.
NC3 is a nice dream,is a vision ofc but without the real background you will lost.
win
William Antrim
29-02-16, 11:58
While not being something I would consider a good MMO, ESO is much better than most of the trash MMOs that have been coming out since WoW. And saying it died off within a month is ludicrous bullshit.
Thank you.
Its not everyone's cup of tea sure but thats the magic of the internet for you. There is plenty of choice for us all.
MayhemMichael
03-03-16, 04:23
The NC IP is also partially owned by the bank. It is probably entirely owned by the bank tbh and there is a bankruptcy order on the parent company. Any attempt to make a new game would also have to settle that debt to make use of any of the IP.
The current team is too small to do anything and clearly doesnt have the will beyond tweaking the current game and playing about with code under the hood and Kirk is not an entrepreneur. Anyone who blames the "investors" is clearly lacking a clue.
In short the game needs a project lead who has the will, motivation and business acumen to see it through. I havent seen that here at all. I think zoltan seems to be happy to just plod along being a code monkey and going "aw shucks, well i tried" when the server dies.
I had this conversation with him once before on these forums and lo and behold the thread got deleted.
Edit: I looked at the Kickstarter link - Who the fuck is Obi Jim Kenobi. He lost all credibility there.
I think you are on the right track here. IP for Neocron is locked in bankruptcy. It will never have the investors Kirk needs to rescue it. It is lost. Here is what i don't get: Remember a few years (might have been many years back) back when some guy got a hold of the server code and released his own nc2 server? He was attacked and threatened with legal action to take it down. This was when neocron was in worse shape than it's current state. Cheaters ran amuck. At this point, why not let someone else give it a shot? Look at the Ultima-Online model. There are thousands of private servers for a game that is decades old. Now i know the population of neocron couldn't sustain thousands of servers but i say, may the best sever win.
William Antrim
05-03-16, 10:55
That was MrTrip/Lykos i believe. He got binned off pretty quickly.
However I agree mike - problem is the current "owner" doesnt see it that way. Despite numerous questions being asked in that direction he remains tight lipped about the whole thing. Even when the "donations" deal came up there was no information as to what the future plans/intentions were. Nobody knows anything about the "future" of NC so it is difficult to get behind the project and support it when there are so many other kickstarter projects and the like to get excited about instead.
Global consumerism rampages through online gaming with independent companies coming and going all of the time and kickstarter projects forming on a whim. This forum just feels like a digital archeological dig sometimes, just a bunch of old men and a few crazy students hovering over a relic on the internet dusting off little parts of it to see the glory of what it used to be.
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