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View Full Version : [R#191] T#192 / 193 / 194 / 195 - Patch Discussion



Zoltan
18-11-14, 09:48
Feel free to talk about your experiences with the patch here.

We need to gather information about the stability because this is an very experimental version of Neocron with a complete new runtime.

Dasore
18-11-14, 11:42
-A bug which leads to a sudden death after 'syncing' should be fixed
I still died today, took me like 25 syncs and i got around 1/6 hp on both screens when a stack killed me. (120hp)

-A bug with sanctum spells which 'overcasts' better psi manipulations should be fixed
Holy Shields still get overcasted by crahn Sanctums

-A new option has been added to the Hardware Configuration window, players can now toggle dynamic lighting on Non-Player-Characters
Didnt really see any difference, but at least the game doesnt crash ;)

-A new category "FEEDBACK" has been added to the bugtracker
Yeah thats true, but did you guys also get my Test message?

No more terminals to get everywhere? And that lazy Z's warp bitch also doesnt like to warp me there.

Zoltan
18-11-14, 19:51
-A bug which leads to a sudden death after 'syncing' should be fixed
I still died today, took me like 25 syncs and i got around 1/6 hp on both screens when a stack killed me. (120hp)


Ok



-A bug with sanctum spells which 'overcasts' better psi manipulations should be fixed
Holy Shields still get overcasted by crahn Sanctums


Crap ;/



-A new option has been added to the Hardware Configuration window, players can now toggle dynamic lighting on Non-Player-Characters
Didnt really see any difference, but at least the game doesnt crash ;)


http://www.neocron-game.com/media/dynlight.png



-A new category "FEEDBACK" has been added to the bugtracker
Yeah thats true, but did you guys also get my Test message?

No more terminals to get everywhere? And that lazy Z's warp bitch also doesnt like to warp me there.

Yes and no but I guess the content team will surprise you with some terminals ;p

Zoltan
18-11-14, 23:41
Okay, I have applied a fix on the server.

Dot+Sync = Death bug should be fixed
Buff + Low Health = Death bug should also be fixed.
Leaving Hacknet = Death bug but it needs to be tested by the community.

Bifrost
19-11-14, 00:05
Leaving Hacknet = Death bug but it needs to be tested by the community.

Just to clarify it's this bug that has (Hopefully) been fixed - http://forum.neocron-game.com/showthread.php?155294-Instant-death-hacknet-zoning. Any help testing this one would be welcomed. :)

Ascension
19-11-14, 00:45
that screenshot clearly shows better dynamic lighting, damnit, I don't have a windows partition on my mac currently to log on and test things. I'll sort this tomorrow, in the mean time, any more screenshots?

Zoltan
24-11-14, 00:31
Feedback anyone?

Dasore
25-11-14, 11:24
feedback bout yesterday testing;

short version: AWESOME ;)

long version:
Deathsync finally seems fixed.
dynamic lightning looked damn great.
Weapon Changes are pretty cool, hope for more weapons to come. Will there be some changes on the stam use of weapons? Cause the Slasher is eating up your stam faster then gatling.
How good those changes ll work in real pvp, not only a bit reactor room shooting, we ll see when there are probably more people on the server but the first impressions are okay.

Suggestions:
Will there also come a change on stack weapons? Like devourer is doing 2 stack damage in pvp atm, thats just crap. Fire apoc and poison beam could also become stackable again.
We need something done with the hitzones. Broken legs are always a players death in op fights as long as its not a spy or pe cause of stealth. Falk already made a suggestion bout that (more health for the leg region) or legs could only be hurt below 50% health...

so keep up the good work and see you soon on the testserver again

Bragi
26-11-14, 02:41
Will there be some changes on the stam use of weapons? Cause the Slasher is eating up your stam faster then gatling.
There are a number of factors that affect how a weapon performs (and frequently, how it is perceived to perform) aside from the pure DPM.

The aiming values for each weapon are different. So even if the weapons are DPM-balanced, some weapons will end up performing better or worse than their TL says they should. The range value given to a weapon also affects how it aims. Some weapons appear to hold lock better than others and many (often, but not exclusively, burst weapons) will hit less often with partial lock than others.

As I/we mentioned in the past; this is a multi-stage process. Each layer needs to be addressed in turn. This can easily result in imbalances between weapons that are unrelated to another layer. One weapon that might be otherwise a theoretically balanced choice becomes either a necessity or a waste of time.

So, the DPM balancing is just one layer, it will not fix the viability of any given weapon in of itself, and was not intended to do so in the first place.

Often people will see a weapon that they think does poor damage and ask for it to be made more powerful, without realising that an attribute of that weapon other than it's DPM is to blame.

One pitfall that can occur here is that all the weapons can become 'samey'; the only distinction being their TL. The style of each weapon should be different. Some people prefer tracking a target with a rapid-fire weapon, others prefer a slower weapon that they can place shots with, some people like something inbetween. There are pros and cons to both types and that choice/availability should be available to players. Each weapon type should have a distinction, and any choice of weapon type should be viable. In fact, I would like it if the primary reason for choosing a weapon is how a player liked it, rather than anything else - building a setup around that weapon choice.

PvP mainly occurs at short range, so we have to make sure the accuracy of weapons [intended for end-game use] is equal in that environment. As mentioned, this is not as simple as giving all weapons the same aiming value as range and the availability of aiming skills are different for each weapon and class respectively.

Aiming, range and stamina use are all aspects of balancing that need to be addressed, but we need to avoid letting imbalances in those areas affecting our choices/judgements in others.

Some of the points made about weapons balance raise the issue of high TL weapons being more viable.
This is a product mainly of the implant and PA system that promotes the use of high TL weapons, and not a problem with the weapons themselves. Upcoming implant changes, both in the short- and long- term should address this issue.


Will there also come a change on stack weapons? Like devourer is doing 2 stack damage in pvp atm, thats just crap. Fire apoc and poison beam could also become stackable again.
Weapons that do DoT effects are set at 10% of their DPM as stack damage.
If you look at how a weapon applies it's damage, then the total dmg a stack does (not just it's per-tick damage) is part of the total damage it does per shot.
Flamer stacks do 8 'ticks' of damage (or should do), so if they do 2 dmg per tick, then that's a total of 16 dmg per stack, this would then be paired with 144 instant damage (for a total of 160).
It's still doing 10% DPM via DoT, but it appears as 'inconsequential' in gameplay.

The proportion of DPM that a weapon's DoT effect does we can alter. What that proportion is, we can discuss.


We need something done with the hitzones. Broken legs are always a players death in op fights as long as its not a spy or pe cause of stealth. Falk already made a suggestion bout that (more health for the leg region) or legs could only be hurt below 50% health...
I'll have to ask, but yes, I agree. Lack of player control only breeds frustration.
How much leg-zone damage affects run-speed is something to be looked at, though currently it is not a priority (and afaik, is a hard-coded element, so it's not something we can change as fast as other things).

Dasore
29-11-14, 12:11
Some of the points made about weapons balance raise the issue of high TL weapons being more viable.
This is a product mainly of the implant and PA system that promotes the use of high TL weapons, and not a problem with the weapons themselves. Upcoming implant changes, both in the short- and long- term should address this issue.

That implant change is one of the most needed changes. Those xx,xx falues are a pain in the ass and some implants are just crap (marine,moveon,all monk implants), also there needs to be changes in the powerarmor slot, atm the pas are so damn more powerfull then nonepa version, probably except for tank. The underwear slowes you even more down then a pa, grants no dmg skill buff and has low resists even sometimes -resists

the only problem i see at the moment is that if monk implants get falues like the other implants (dex or str for example) the dmg output should increase by a certain amount and dont you have to rebalance apu/ppu again?

btw, thanks for that long and detailed post bragi

Zoltan
29-11-14, 14:20
Sidenote: Server update applied.


The Quickbelt-Bug should be solved now
"Softpatch" deployment should work now for all clients.

necrocon
29-11-14, 20:22
Sorry what was in the new patch that you guys would like us to try out? I don't know if the patch notes are posted somewhere?

Dasore
29-11-14, 20:29
http://forum.neocron-game.com/showthread.php?155899-R-191-T-192-193-194-195-Patch-Notes

Faid
29-11-14, 21:47
Zoltan said something about new weapon modifications or something? What exactly do you want us to test?

Zoltan
29-11-14, 22:35
The first thing is to gather informations or idea for the weapons characteristic. There are already a bunch of prominent weapons which already received an update, but there are still tons left so we need to do this step by step.

I want you guys to play around with the weapons to get a feeling for the new changes.

Weapons which were updated so far:

+ Terminator
+ Liberator
+ Wyatt Earp
+ SWAT Backup Gun
+ CREED
+ Cursed Soul
+ Slasher
+ First Love
+ Doom Beamer
+ Ionic Shotgun Rifle
+ Ionic Shotgun Pistol
+ Dreadfire
+ Silent Hunter
+ FAR Reaper
+ Ray of God

Drachenpaladin
29-11-14, 23:48
I might have missed it but... what exactly got changed about those weapons, in how far are they different? I yet have to lom up a char to rare level. Only balancing changes or anything else to look out for?

landofcake
30-11-14, 17:26
Zoltan appears to have made a great deal of changes to weapon handling/parameters on the test server using soft patches, I've observed the following changes:

Note that these aren't official notes in any way, simply my observations of the changes in place on Vedeena. Also, I will have definitely missed things (and I haven't even tested APU spells and Melee weapons).

Rifles:

- Terminator does significantly more damage.
- Time between shots in Pain Easer burst is significantly reduced. Time between bursts appears increased slightly.
- Ionic Shotgun Rifle frequency significantly increased.
- Time between shots in SWAT Assault Rifle burst is significantly reduced. Time between bursts appears increased slightly.
- Ray of God is now a burst fire weapon, firing four shots per burst in quick succession.
- Time between shots in Reaper Assault Rifle burst is significantly reduced. Time between bursts appears increased slightly.
- Desperado damage increased. Frequency appears to have increased slightly.
- Time between Libra bursts decreased, stamina drain decreased slightly.
- AK frequency increased and time between bursts decreased.
- Healing Light is now a burst fire weapon, firing three shots per burst in quick succession.
- First Love now fires four shots per burst (up from two).
- Silent Hunter damage increased.

Pistols:

- Wyatt Earp damage increased.
- Time between shots in Liberator burst is significantly reduced. Time between bursts appears increased slightly.
- Ionic Shotgun Pistol now holds one round, as it did previously.
- Slasher is now a single shot weapon with a very high frequency.
- Beam of Hell is now a burst fire weapon, firing three shots per burst in quick succession.
- Ray of Last Hope is now a burst fire weapon, firing four shots per burst in quick succession.

Heavy:

- Creed is now a burst fire weapon, firing three shots per burst in quick succession.

Zoltan
30-11-14, 20:31
Zoltan appears to have made a great deal of changes to weapon handling/parameters on the test server using soft patches, I've observed the following changes:

Note that these aren't official notes in any way, simply my observations of the changes in place on Vedeena. Also, I will have definitely missed things (and I haven't even tested APU spells and Melee weapons).

Rifles:

- Terminator does significantly more damage.
- Time between shots in Pain Easer burst is significantly reduced. Time between bursts appears increased slightly.
- Ionic Shotgun Rifle frequency significantly increased.
- Time between shots in SWAT Assault Rifle burst is significantly reduced. Time between bursts appears increased slightly.
- Ray of God is now a burst fire weapon, firing four shots per burst in quick succession.
- Time between shots in Reaper Assault Rifle burst is significantly reduced. Time between bursts appears increased slightly.
- Desperado damage increased. Frequency appears to have increased slightly.
- Time between Libra bursts decreased, stamina drain decreased slightly.
- AK frequency increased and time between bursts decreased.
- Healing Light is now a burst fire weapon, firing three shots per burst in quick succession.
- First Love now fires four shots per burst (up from two).
- Silent Hunter damage increased.

Pistols:

- Wyatt Earp damage increased.
- Time between shots in Liberator burst is significantly reduced. Time between bursts appears increased slightly.
- Ionic Shotgun Pistol now holds one round, as it did previously.
- Slasher is now a single shot weapon with a very high frequency.
- Beam of Hell is now a burst fire weapon, firing three shots per burst in quick succession.
- Ray of Last Hope is now a burst fire weapon, firing four shots per burst in quick succession.

Heavy:

- Creed is now a burst fire weapon, firing three shots per burst in quick succession.

^ This. There are far more modified weapons in the meanwhile. I think its a good way to let YOU find out what weapons are affected by these changes.

gstyle40
30-11-14, 22:58
^ This. There are far more modified weapons in the meanwhile. I think its a good way to let YOU find out what weapons are affected by these changes.

thats complete rubbish zoltan. not telling what has changed so we can PROPERLY test stuff is just bs man

slith
01-12-14, 09:02
thats complete rubbish zoltan. not telling what has changed so we can PROPERLY test stuff is just bs man

Things have been changed, things keep getting changed, stats and handling are changing several times a day from what I observed. I couldn't be arsed to write a full changelog every 20 minutes either when literally NOTHING is finalized and can change by someone just requesting it in ingame chat*. So STFU, join in and help & contribute instead of complaining here.

You write about properly testing stuff when you have no inclination to do so. I haven't seen you around on Vedeena in the last 2 weeks - and I was online basically non stop - always there to help as a crash test dummy and target with several accounts full of different characters and setup combinations to shoot at or shoot with and a totally overloaded excel sheet open in the background in a foolish attempt of keeping track of and calculating with all of the changes.

And then you randomly hop in this thread and decide to blabble some bullshit about you can't test properly without a changelog...


Get your head straight. What Zoltan wrote is actually a good idea: Get on the Testserver and see for yourself. Sadly seems to be the only way to actually get people there - curiosity.


*) I told him Malediction needs a slightly higher freq, the people who where online at that time will forever remember what happened next :P

necrocon
01-12-14, 09:31
Without being on the test server yet. It does help to know at least which weapons to test, to see if we "notice" a change. I haven't played in years, so I wouldn't even know what I am supposed to be noticing in the first place. :( It helps to be a bit calmer, and less dramatic. People see things from different angles, and perspectives. I would suggest watching the Bruce Lee video, about being like water.... :p

gstyle40
01-12-14, 16:47
Things have been changed, things keep getting changed, stats and handling are changing several times a day from what I observed. I couldn't be arsed to write a full changelog every 20 minutes either when literally NOTHING is finalized and can change by someone just requesting it in ingame chat*. So STFU, join in and help & contribute instead of complaining here.

You write about properly testing stuff when you have no inclination to do so. I haven't seen you around on Vedeena in the last 2 weeks - and I was online basically non stop - always there to help as a crash test dummy and target with several accounts full of different characters and setup combinations to shoot at or shoot with and a totally overloaded excel sheet open in the background in a foolish attempt of keeping track of and calculating with all of the changes.

And then you randomly hop in this thread and decide to blabble some bullshit about you can't test properly without a changelog...


Get your head straight. What Zoltan wrote is actually a good idea: Get on the Testserver and see for yourself. Sadly seems to be the only way to actually get people there - curiosity.


*) I told him Malediction needs a slightly higher freq, the people who where online at that time will forever remember what happened next :P

actually, ive been trying to get on the test server for days since i came home from my wedding anniversary vacation and i have posted in other threads about my entire clan not being able to get on until Divide figured out what our problem was. then i was on the test server almost non stop ever since. let me see....ming the merciless, yahoo, chick magnet, kenny buchanon oh, and mace were the characters i was on yesterday while were playing with your malediction.

i guess that entier post u just made goes to shit now, but my point still stands. if u make changes to stuff, not knowing what the changes are and just trying stuff may be fun for some, but for others its like shooting fish in a barrel. i would rather know what im supposed to go test rather than just trying every gun and seeing if its changed. and im not the only one who feels that way....so...i guess now u should STFU eh?

Drachenpaladin
01-12-14, 17:03
i have posted in other threads about my entire clan not being able to get on until Divide figured out what our problem was. then i was on the test server almost non stop ever since. let me see...

What was the issue and how did you resolve it? In case someone else runs into the same problem that might be good to know.

Zoltan
01-12-14, 17:20
actually, ive been trying to get on the test server for days since i came home from my wedding anniversary vacation and i have posted in other threads about my entire clan not being able to get on until Divide figured out what our problem was.

The problem was NOT reading the Patchnotes / Test annoucements carefully.



then i was on the test server almost non stop ever since. let me see....ming the merciless, yahoo, chick magnet, kenny buchanon oh, and mace were the characters i was on yesterday while were playing with your malediction.


Slith's malediction?



i guess that entier post u just made goes to shit now, but my point still stands. if u make changes to stuff, not knowing what the changes are and just trying stuff may be fun for some, but for others its like shooting fish in a barrel. i would rather know what im supposed to go test rather than just trying every gun and seeing if its changed. and im not the only one who feels that way....so...i guess now u should STFU eh?


Okay so I can spend my whole free time by writing and updating updates informations on this forum, which you and your friends didn't gave the needed attention (see first quote) ... yes

~ OR ~

I can spend my time with bugfixing, balancing and feature development.



And to be honest, I can't hear or read the "and im not the only one" argument anymore this argument simply doesn't count for me ;)

There were about ~12 ppl. on the testserver to test their favorite weapons instead of writing posts about missed details.

Faid
01-12-14, 18:57
Fuck this shit Mace, they obviously don't want our input. Just let falk/zoltan do whatever he wants with the server, it's whats going to happen anyway. This is what you get for trying to help...

Tino
01-12-14, 20:11
Me and Kame told you moooooonths ago that trying to balance all the weapons using just a curve will not fix your problems when it comes to balancing...there are too many factors in neocron to do that...you have to change each weapon individually like it was done in the past...i honestly do not care if Zoltan makes changes without telling us as long as they get fixed...in the end its in his hands to kill the game or make it awesome again! Mace i would suggest that you stop testing since they only listen to German runners and just sit back like me and watch =) Only thing we can do now is tell them our opinion and see if they actually listen...case in point not listening to me and Kame which wasted 4 months of everyones time and dropped the population to all time lows...Desperation time is now Zoltan and i think your gonna rise to the challenge...just make the changes that need to be made to fix the game play and people will come back...im either gonna be cursing your name or praising it...hoping for praising it <3

Tino 4 President of NC 2016

Tino
02-12-14, 01:29
"So STFU, join in and help & contribute instead of complaining here.
You write about properly testing stuff when you have no inclination to do so. I haven't seen you around on Vedeena in the last 2 weeks - and I was online basically non stop - always there to help as a crash test dummy and target with several accounts full of different characters and setup combinations to shoot at or shoot with and a totally overloaded excel sheet open in the background in a foolish attempt of keeping track of and calculating with all of the changes.
And then you randomly hop in this thread and decide to blabble some bullshit about you can't test properly without a changelog..."

Hey Falk Keegan i think you should STFU since you clearly do not care about neocron and use hacks to gain an advantage in pvp and ruin the game.

Anyone that wants to see video footage of Falk Keegan cheating please youtube Neocron Falk Keegan Hacks Turned On...@ time 18:30 in the video Falk Keegan's pe jumps into the air triple the height a normal person can jump in neocron...before you start trash talking legit runners in neocron maybe you should stop hacking the game

Here is the link to Falk Keegan hacking neocron http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeTiBEAGUdY

Tino
02-12-14, 02:08
Here is a slow motion video clip of Falk Keegan using a jump hack on his pe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HItpKDTjrrs&feature=youtu.be

Divide
02-12-14, 03:28
The problem was NOT reading the Patchnotes / Test annoucements carefully.



The REAL problem was additional dependencies were introduced and the game didn't take care of it. This game may be coded from back when I barely had hair on my nutsack, but it's not that same day in age. You don't get to expect your playerbase to lift a finger other than to key in their passwords. The "fix" was like 1.4mb of redistributable binaries that you can drop into your Neocron folder. Something well within the capabilities of the NC Patcher.


/edit:
When was the last time WoW players had to manually install anything to support that game? Never. Blizzard does it for them. Just like Apple does everything for their users. Get with the program. It's not the 90's or the early 2000's. PC Gamers aren't de-facto PC Geeks any longer.

SteveJinx
02-12-14, 03:38
Hey as long as Ionic's are playable again i am happy, i heard they were good and would like to try one out on my tank if they get fixed too.

I See Blue
02-12-14, 03:43
Good point Divide, ther is no reason why players should have to modify files or moves things around to be able to launch either testserver or normal client. It would be a lot less hassle for everyone involved if the agme was actually able to launch all by itself, a radical idea I know, but still.

As for Zoltan writing what changes he has made, of course he should. He should notify us of the changes made, and then the players test them out. That would be the normal way of doing tests. Do you imagine that when they make modifications to say a car and hand it to testdrivers they do not tell them the changes made to the car and how they want the car tested? It would be a waste of time for players to have to search for changes, time that could be used for testing.

I would suggest the team (and Slith) take a more open attitude to the players who want to do tests, and have shown their willingness.

So stop making people search for the changes. Just post them , tell us specifically what you want tested and then accept the feedback you get. I assure you that this would make for a significantly better testing environment for all.

Divide
02-12-14, 03:44
Here is a slow motion video clip of Falk Keegan using a jump hack on his pe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HItpKDTjrrs&feature=youtu.be

haha falk is jumpman23?

SteveJinx
02-12-14, 03:44
Nike are thinking of getting Falk onboard and making a new trainer called Air Falks!

Makes you jump 3 times as high :P

I See Blue
02-12-14, 03:44
Here is a slow motion video clip of Falk Keegan using a jump hack on his pe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HItpKDTjrrs&feature=youtu.be


Wow.... that is just crazy. I hear Nike are dumping Michael Jordan and are now going over to making Air Falks instead.

SteveJinx
02-12-14, 03:50
The advert would be awesome!!!

AIR FALKS, THE FLIGHT OF TOMORROW.. TODAY!

With Air Falks you can gain extra air while jumping, only $99.99 get your new pair of Air Falks today at a discounted price.

GO ON TRY THEM OUT NOW!

Disclaimer: Nike and Air Falks cannot accept any responsiblity of injury or damage to yourself, property or anyone else around you! (Fast Spoken)

Tino
02-12-14, 03:51
All i ask is for people to play fair...why do you need the advantage? does it make the game more enjoyable to you?

SteveJinx
02-12-14, 04:03
All i ask is for people to play fair...why do you need the advantage? does it make the game more enjoyable to you?

I think people do it because they dont have the skill to follow up fighting people in game and they hide that they are super trash :P

StevenJ
02-12-14, 04:08
It seems that Zoltan's examining an iterative process to balance, trying new things quickly, and on the fly changes in a test environment, and I don't see how that can be bad. Maybe there's a PR gaffe here, but this thread appears to be getting pretty silly - especially when this seems like a massive goal of NC's for a long time.

necrocon
02-12-14, 04:10
Watching the video a few times, it looks like one of the Psi Monks, has a pair of Air Falks as well. Right about the 4-5 second mark. Watch it a few times.

Drachenpaladin
02-12-14, 04:19
It seems that Zoltan's examining an iterative process to balance, trying new things quickly, and on the fly changes in a test environment, and I don't see how that can be bad. Maybe there's a PR gaffe here, but this thread appears to be getting pretty silly - especially when this seems like a massive goal of NC's for a long time.

Golly Gee Wilickers! Deliberateness and rationality! Here, at this place!

Gotta dispense with the late-night snacks I guess... I start seeing things... :eek:

Tino
02-12-14, 05:25
Watching the video a few times, it looks like one of the Psi Monks, has a pair of Air Falks as well. Right about the 4-5 second mark. Watch it a few times.

That ppu was already standing on the second level when he jumped...that is what a normal jump looks like...watch falk jump from the bottom level almost to the ceiling lol that is not normal...

Here is a link in super slow motion so you can see that ppu was standing on the 2nd level before he jumped: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEmMXb1qGtw&feature=youtu.be

Divide
02-12-14, 06:01
The First Love is 4 shots again. All is right with the world.

StevenJ
02-12-14, 06:05
The First Love is 4 shots again. All is right with the world.It's not bloody burst dmg insane like the dissie is it?! If not - awesome.

As well as the Slasher being a rapid fire pistol.

I'll be on the test server again asap, but... this sounds good.

gstyle40
02-12-14, 06:17
well ill be john brown!!! look at what i came home too.
@ drachenpaladin, there were 2 files that the installer didnt install. zoltan wants everyone to believe that their system works when it really doesnt for a LOT of people. he seems to not understand that i spent 2 whole days trying to get on the test server using his methods and they didnt work, and all he has to say is read the first page. yea....go fuck a duck tbh. any who the 2 files that we all had to download and install were msvcr120.dll and msvcp120.dll. we found out what to download by trying to launch the client outright and getting the error message msvcr120.dll is missing. then once we installed that it was missing the other file. of course we already posted this on the "how to get on vedeena" thread :D

Gunshifty
02-12-14, 06:17
Please add stacking damage to Wyatt Earp please. Like it was in NC1, that would be glorious.

hatmankh
02-12-14, 08:45
I guess we've given up on fixing beam weapons and have started converting them all to bursts instead now.

Ryan Steiner
02-12-14, 10:31
any who the 2 files that we all had to download and install were msvcr120.dll and msvcp120.dll. we found out what to download by trying to launch the client outright and getting the error message msvcr120.dll is missing.

msvcr120.dll and msvcp120.dll are part of the Microsoft Visual C++ 2013 Redistributable Package.

Of course it's Neocron's fault that the respective Microsoft installer did not install these files correctly on your computers .... :D

nabbl
02-12-14, 11:15
Here is a slow motion video clip of Falk Keegan using a jump hack on his pe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HItpKDTjrrs&feature=youtu.be

HAHA... I died laughing here :)

There is no such thing like desync in Neocron which could explain what happened there? Tino you are just absolutely ridiculous. I have seen players flying in the air, warping through walls, coming trough ceilings in my appartment and stuff like that. Neocron is based on old tech which is based on much older tech going back to a time where 56k Modems were a thing. Get over it.

A "Jump" Hack ... you got to be kidding me.

Falk is not a bad PvPer. That's all. Learn to lose.

Nidhogg
02-12-14, 11:31
Please don't accuse others of cheating. Nine times out of ten it's just a glitch. Thanks.

Bifrost
02-12-14, 11:56
A note on the missing msvcr120.dll and msvcp120.dll files. Those files are part of Visual C++ Redistributable Packages for Visual Studio 2013 (http://www.microsoft.com/en-GB/download/details.aspx?id=40784) Make sure you install the vcredist_x86.exe regardless whether you run 64 or 32 bit versions of windows.

I have updated the Neocron installer to install the new C++ runtime, but it's currently being QA'ed internally at this time.

To make sure that I'm not missing any related issues, for the people who had issues with missing files can you confirm your OS version including whether it's 32bit or 64bit.

Zoltan
02-12-14, 14:02
Okay, thats way to much.

1) You guys did a clearly violation against our Rules Of Conduct (http://neocron-game.com/rules-of-conduct)

2) You guys are seriuosly talking about "Jump" hacks in a game with a poorly implementation of the Y-Axis interpolation... short: Neocron really gives a s**** on it

3) You guys didn't get manage to install a very simple Redist (http://www.microsoft.com/en-GB/download/details.aspx?id=40784)which was mentioned several times now ... but its okay for you to download DLL files from a doubious online storage.

A short question about that: Are you serious?

It's okay for me to have a opinion about the changes, feedback is always very welcome but you guys did NOTHING of them just blame a person who was apart from Dasore, Torrez and Polyverse the MOST ACTIVE users on the test server.

Think about it and PLEASE leave this thread for the original intention - gave feedback about the changes on Vedeena.

PS: I promise you to move you directly to /DEV/NULL if I need to read such rasistic phrases like "They don't want your feedback because you are not german" again.


@ Divide

Dropping single DLL files into the Neocron directory is definitely the wrong way... these files are NOT registered in you Windows installation so Windows Update won't find them if an update is needed.

Tino
02-12-14, 17:52
[edited]

slith
02-12-14, 21:16
[Edited]

Massaker
03-12-14, 00:25
The Libra sounds like that the last shot of the first burst got skipped by the first shot of the second burst (so two sounds quite synchronous). How to add a little break like 0.05-0.1 seconds?

Changing the burst of the First Love from 2 shots to 4 shots is a good idea to make the stamina consumption more realistic and the weapon more efficient in fights. Good change :)

Divide
03-12-14, 03:38
@ Divide

Dropping single DLL files into the Neocron directory is definitely the wrong way... these files are NOT registered in you Windows installation so Windows Update won't find them if an update is needed.

You are right, it is anything but proper from an actual package management perspective. From a delivery/usage standpoint, it is without question your best way to distribute those files. Do you really want to be forced to comment on a thread such as this one and have to gnash your teeth instead of calling people lazy idiots, like any IT person would really want to? No, you have better things to do and I support that-- telling people to RTFM only works if they are inclined to take direction. I actually told someone directly on teamspeak, after this thread was well on its way, to go to the thread and download the VC redist-- they resisted it like 4 times. And then they failed to get on the test server. What was it worth, me telling them to do that? What was it worth, you writing the instructions? It probably took more time to write the instructions than if you were to include those dll's in the patch.. I understand your purpose, in the business world if you don't get explicit in text you can't expect any results. I know you know how work is done, your notes and releases prove it. They work for me, and others who consume data like that. They don't work for others, the tldr crew can't be changed-- but they can be included and their input can be valuable.

As for updates/etc. Considering they wouldn't be touched by Windows update, or anything other than the patcher, they would ALWAYS be the right release for the game. Future management of those files would of course be delivered by the patcher, eliminating the need to use Windows Update and ensuring the compatibility, and error-correction via nc file checker if something were to happen to the file.

Bifrost
03-12-14, 12:09
As for updates/etc. Considering they wouldn't be touched by Windows update, or anything other than the patcher, they would ALWAYS be the right release for the game. Future management of those files would of course be delivered by the patcher, eliminating the need to use Windows Update and ensuring the compatibility, and error-correction via nc file checker if something were to happen to the file.

This is against Microsoft's Recommended Practice (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-gb/library/windows/hardware/dn448963%28v=vs.85%29.aspx). It's very rare that Microsoft would do an update to a C++ runtime library that breaks compatibility and if they did, there would be a lot of people up in arms about it. What if there was a security update in one of the dll's? Windows update would update the dll's in system32, but it would not update the dll's in your games folder that your downloaded, leaving yourself potentially open to attack by hackers.

Due to the age/limitations of the Neocron patcher it's difficult to redistribute and run VCRedist_x86.exe. It's an issue I'm aware of, and has been partially addressed by the Neocron Installer but there will be issues when it comes to installing the C++ libs when this test patch goes to retail.

Divide
04-12-14, 04:17
We're going to do it the impractical, frustrating, non-user-centric way because some technical writer at Microsoft slapped some text on a page and told us...
P.S. viruses and hackers.

Wait for it...


If you want to achieve isolation, you can either link statically, or copy the specific Visual C/C++ DLLs to the application local folder along with their other binaries. An application local folder is a folder that contains an executable application file. DLLs must be deployed to the application local folder.


It is a perfectly legitimate way to distribute, and again-- without question: Neocron's best way to serve its users and volunteer staff.

It would have completely defeated the need for this conversation, the waste of time people took to write instructions and link binaries, the time wasted and severe frustration by community members who honestly want to help.





Recommended Strategies

Use the following strategies when redistributing the C/C++ run time components with your drivers and applications.
For applications installed under Program Files:
Use the Visual C++ Redistributable Package (VCRedist_x86.exe, VCRedist_x64.exe, VCRedist_arm.exe), which deploys the CRT under System32. In this case, the redistributable package can be updated automatically.
Alternatively, install the DLL(s) to the application local directory (copied directly to the directory where the application is installed), or link statically to the CRT. In this case, the CRT would need to be serviced manually.

Zoltan
04-12-14, 04:35
First thing: This is a testserver no retail, an updated installer is planned for the retail release.

Did you'd missed these (important) lines?



It's an issue I'm aware of, and has been partially addressed by the Neocron Installer but there will be issues when it comes to installing the C++ libs when this test patch goes to retail.


So please calm down. Just for example: Steam or other deployment paltforms aren't deploying single VC++ DLLs too - they just installing MSI packages, why? Think about it.

Divide
04-12-14, 04:43
PS: I promise you to move you directly to /DEV/NULL if I need to read such rasistic phrases like "They don't want your feedback because you are not german" again.

We want to help Zoltan, we honestly seriously 100% want to help. We love the game, we love the NST even though at the same time we really want to curse you all out. We know you love the game and to some odd extent maybe us too... we just feel completely and totally out of control of something that we all love. It is gut-wrenching to love something unrequited.


When we get on the test server and we hear that special requests went from one person who lives in the same country as the lead dev and they did it. Like that day. Yet in previous iterations of testing, several attempts were made to call attention to severe issues there was no action. It feels like we're there for nothing. And it makes us desperate for attention.

We love Neocron. Won't Neocron love us back, like in public near the cool kid's table at lunch?

Divide
04-12-14, 04:48
First thing: This is a testserver no retail, an updated installer is planned for the retail release.

Did you'd missed these (important) lines?

I read them, but maybe interpreted them differently than you may have.

I read that Bifrost says it has partially been addressed, but there will be issues when retail comes. That sounds to me like the or a different problem related to this will exist in retail.




So please calm down. Just for example: Steam or other deployment paltforms aren't deploying single VC++ DLLs too - they just installing MSI packages, why? Think about it.

Only passionate because... well you read my previous post. The Neocron Launcher isn't Steam. Steam isn't a game, or a game's specialized launcher. Nor is Origin, or uPlay. they don't distribute anything but the game. If the game fails to properly package the VC redists, the game fails to launch. That game will probably sell for .25cents US in the first Steam Sale it can wiggle its way in to.
As for the MSI packages, I assumed that may was beyond the scope of the patcher. That would clearly be the best way to do it.

Zoltan
04-12-14, 16:36
When we get on the test server and we hear that special requests went from one person who lives in the same country as the lead dev and they did it. Like that day. Yet in previous iterations of testing, several attempts were made to call attention to severe issues there was no action. It feels like we're there for nothing. And it makes us desperate for attention.

We love Neocron. Won't Neocron love us back, like in public near the cool kid's table at lunch?

Okay, tell me exactly what do you want from me? Should I do some background check before starting conversation with players on the testserver to ensure that they're NOT german?

I am not able to spawn players on the testserver apart from that fact I did some changes based on suggestion from ppl around the world.

Unfortunately the most of the player are logging in doing the following steps:

Logging in, buying a gun (which was not changed so far), writing "LOL" and finally ragequitting... all I can say is:

Thank you VERY much....

The most comments are not very useful apart from that I am mostly "AFK" because I am debugging the client while I am staying online. I don't read all of the messages ingame thats why we have a forum - to post your ideas HERE instead of spamming it to death.




Only passionate because... well you read my previous post. The Neocron Launcher isn't Steam. Steam isn't a game, or a game's specialized launcher. Nor is Origin, or uPlay. they don't distribute anything but the game. If the game fails to properly package the VC redists, the game fails to launch. That game will probably sell for .25cents US in the first Steam Sale it can wiggle its way in to.
As for the MSI packages, I assumed that may was beyond the scope of the patcher. That would clearly be the best way to do it.


The Neocron Launchers job is to keep the game files and content up to date - not your OS. Redists and all needed runtimes came with the installer (which is not ready yet). Steam does this in one step on the initial start but its NOT dropping random runtime DLLs into the game folder.

Next time you wan't me to drop single .NET Framework runtime files into gamefolder or do install a Windows - beause its needed to run Neocron.

r3yka
04-12-14, 21:24
The first thing is to gather informations or idea for the weapons characteristic. There are already a bunch of prominent weapons which already received an update, but there are still tons left so we need to do this step by step.

I want you guys to play around with the weapons to get a feeling for the new changes.

Weapons which were updated so far:

+ Terminator

I read up to here and already have a semi

Divide
04-12-14, 21:50
Okay, tell me exactly what do you want from me? Should I do some background check before starting conversation with players on the testserver to ensure that they're NOT german?

That is a really really difficult question to answer. We, collectively, want some echo back from the NST. This engagement you and I are having right now is the BEST series of communications I have had with the NST. I know you care, if you didn't you wouldn't post back. We need help to help you the way you need to be helped. We are separated by thousands of miles so we can't really hope to see you on the test server unless you decided not to sleep. Maybe it is time for there to be a GM involved in the projects that is somewhere in North America. It gives us hope that we can communicate with someone on our hours, who knows the game as we do.




Unfortunately the most of the player are logging in doing the following steps:

Logging in, buying a gun (which was not changed so far), writing "LOL" and finally ragequitting...

Probably the result of logging in the day before and the gun acting completely differently. You have already told us that you are changing things daily and can't take the time to inform us of everything. What QA group in the entire world do you know of that would do anything other than LOL at instructions to test a moving target with no documentation and no link to the orchestrator?



all I can say is:

Thank you VERY much....

Welcome to why we are cynical. We can't test what we don't know changed. We don't see value in testing things when we know they are going to change again tomorrow out of our control. We're logging in there because we want to contribute. Instead, we just get frustrated. You are obviously frustrated as well. Do you think the way you speak to me and others here does anything to actually mend that stressed relationship? Don't talk to us like idiots and assholes and we will be less likely to rage all over the place.



The most comments are not very useful apart from that I am mostly "AFK" because I am debugging the client while I am staying online. I don't read all of the messages ingame thats why we have a forum - to post your ideas HERE instead of spamming it to death.

After attempt again and again and again we're losing the faith that the forum is actually a place for discourse that is read and considered by the NST. How many threads are on the brainport that don't even have a single response? How many are there that have no response from someone in the NST? Do you read the posts? How can we know if you don't engage with us?




The Neocron Launchers job is to keep the game files and content up to date - not your OS. Redists and all needed runtimes came with the installer (which is not ready yet). Steam does this in one step on the initial start but its NOT dropping random runtime DLLs into the game folder.

Next time you wan't me to drop single .NET Framework runtime files into gamefolder or do install a Windows - beause its needed to run Neocron.

I want you to help yourself and the players who aren't able to help themselves by including required, freely distributable libraries, in the package so you don't have to joust with me over it. You're a pro with a real job and real experience. Is it worth NOT doing this, really? The slippery slope argument is great, when you install Windows for me, can you also give me a bunch of warez like Photoshop, Acrobat, and Office?

You don't have to do jack shit for me, I enjoy the challenge of fixing things. This is entirely for you and for those who don't have that same passion in life. Make it easy for yourself. It's easy. Just put the dll's in the patcher unless you can fix the issue more eloquently.

aKe`cj
04-12-14, 22:25
That is an epic display of patience and good intention right there, maybe Nid (hello!) can rename your forum account to "Ghandi", … much more fitting than "Divide" in this context.

The topic of communication between community and staff has always been, and still is somewhat cringeworthy.

Might be a good idea to "waste" some dev time and take a step back to focus on the process of testing and how the NST and community contributions can best be streamlined/facilitated. Frustration is a very real problem now for anyone who shares a passion for Neocron, which I assume includes the fading NST staff.

Massaker
04-12-14, 22:39
The Holy Frostration does more damage than the Fire Apoc and Holy Lightning now.


DAMAGEINFO - Time 1304.101 Damage (Ecstasy): WeaponID 1955, DmgID 1555, DmgFac 2.176, Energy 217.604, Effect 0.000, Height 48.000
DamageCause: PSI!
DamageType: Collision!
INS - FIR: 43.521
INS - ENR: 174.083

DAMAGEINFO - Time 1309.549 Damage (Ecstasy): WeaponID 1875, DmgID 1525, DmgFac 1.480, Energy 147.982, Effect 0.000, Height 48.000
DamageCause: PSI!
DamageType: Collision!
INS - FIR: 147.982

DAMAGEINFO - Time 1561.116 Damage (Ecstasy): WeaponID 1835, DmgID 1510, DmgFac 1.626, Energy 162.558, Effect 0.000, Height 36.000
DamageCause: PSI!
DamageType: Collision!
INS - ENR: 162.558


Edit: Ahh ok I see that you also edit the frequency. But if the Holy Lightning has the highest frequency the damage should be lower as the damage of the Holy Fire Apoc and Holy Frostration, right? This is not the case at the moment.

Divide
05-12-14, 00:19
That is an epic display of patience and good intention right there, maybe Nid (hello!) can rename your forum account to "Ghandi", … much more fitting than "Divide" in this context.


Never imagined in a million years reading something like that. Thanks!

Drachenpaladin
05-12-14, 03:06
Don't talk to us like idiots and assholes and we will be less likely to rage all over the place.
Ha, that one is actually easy. Don't act like such in the first place and nobody will feel the need to address you as those!


After attempt again and again and again we're losing the faith that the forum is actually a place for discourse that is read and considered by the NST. How many threads are on the brainport that don't even have a single response? How many are there that have no response from someone in the NST? Do you read the posts? How can we know if you don't engage with us?
Well, are they supposed to respond to each post individually now? Also where else would you dump feedback if not here or the IRC?
They sure as hell won't receive your feedback if you only moan about stuff to your clan mates on your TS or on the OOC channel.

Divide
05-12-14, 04:31
the usual


yeah, ok

necrocon
05-12-14, 05:11
Everyone, player, and GM, and whoever else, just needs to calm down. Before I start typing like Captain Kirk, speaks.

Divide
05-12-14, 20:38
Pyrolizer nanites still cause several hundreds points of damage to the user. This has been around and documented every patch level by yours truly since 186.

necrocon
05-12-14, 21:52
Noted Divide. Perhaps it could be easier to note that in the bug report in a file for those specific nanites, and then each time a new patch comes out, update it with the newest patch number, for specific record keeping!

Divide
05-12-14, 23:28
It appears team creation may be a constant source of crashing as well. You can invite, but when someone clicks accept, both players crash.

/edit:
Just happened again.

/edit:
Happens when you are close enough to someone to actually see them on local or see their HP in team. Seems others already know a bit about it.

Divide
05-12-14, 23:31
Noted Divide. Perhaps it could be easier to note that in the bug report in a file for those specific nanites, and then each time a new patch comes out, update it with the newest patch number, for specific record keeping!


http://forum.neocron-game.com/showthread.php?155742-001266-R-188-Pyrolizer-Nanites-Damage-User-amp-Becomes-unusable

Updating

necrocon
05-12-14, 23:49
Hrm, I am in an LE team of 3 none of us have crashed in about 2 hours...

I joined your post on the nanites, though I have never yet used them myself. Perhaps it will help Divide. Have faith... otherwise why are we here? lol!

Zoltan
05-12-14, 23:55
The team crash is fixed in the next update its because of a "division through 0" - the players health is not synced in the right time.

Me is building a new version of the client right now including a much better health sync, mobs with much more life and a hopefully working fix for the rezz bug. The legshot stun effect was increased a little bit.

necrocon
06-12-14, 00:07
Thanks for the update Zoltan. Can I ask.. well I guess I am asking. What do you mean, building a "new version of the client" Can you describe to an idiot like me, what that means?

slith
06-12-14, 00:12
Thanks for the update Zoltan. Can I ask.. well I guess I am asking. What do you mean, building a "new version of the client" Can you describe to an idiot like me, what that means?He is taking the source code that he has been brutalizing to fix the bugs and then "builds" it -> The source code gets converted by the compiler to form a actual program windows can execute. Once it has been "built" it can then be send to the players/server as a update.

Not exactly correct but close enough.

necrocon
06-12-14, 00:17
So basically above my knowledge, lol. I was thinking it was like a new updater, haha! Log in thing. Going back to playing, thanks Slith!

Divide
06-12-14, 00:25
Basically, he is committing new/updated code for client.exe, the most central component to the user-side of the game.

necrocon
06-12-14, 00:42
I will believe you guys. I don't know anything about programing in that fashion. I am a CNC operator, and set up guy. lol factory stuff. :p

Divide
06-12-14, 01:14
client.exe is what the launcher launches. If you skipped the launcher and double-clicked client.exe in your Neocron folder, the game would start and you would go to the logon screen. Basically, think of it as "Neocron itself" for lack of a better way to define it.

Faid
06-12-14, 02:58
Nerds