View Full Version : [R#186-R#188] Patch Discussion and Feedback
Hello Runners,
Please feel free to discuss the first balancing related patch, R#186, in this thread. The link to the patch notes and a launch statement can be found in this thread (http://forum.neocron-game.com/showthread.php?155725-R-186-Patch-Notes).
Sincerely,
Your Neocron Support Team
drones dont work, as of yet. after starting one i get a reddish screen with HUD, drone doesnt move. i smell a hotpatch coming.
drones dont work, as of yet. after starting one i get a reddish screen with HUD, drone doesnt move. i smell a hotpatch coming.
We're looking into this as I type this reply :)
hacking is borked, too. plain warbot is impossible on 80 HCK (like 30 HCK before).
supply boxes are usual in difficulty, but stay locked after hacking.
are we on triple XP? either this or XP gain has changed. too fast.
also mobs arent doing real dmg. cyclops cant outdamage a 17/17 on medipacks (w/o heal).
jj dynomite
05-08-14, 14:23
hacking is borked, too. plain warbot is impossible on 80 HCK (like 30 HCK before).
supply boxes are usual in difficulty, but stay locked after hacking.
Mad Copbot and Substandard Cyberguard are too hard too. like hacking a 120/120 security safe right now.
Drachenpaladin
05-08-14, 14:28
are we on triple XP? either this or XP gain has changed. too fast.
Don't say that too loud...
XP gain should not be affected. The issue in case of drones has been identified and fixed in my local development version and the hacking issue is being investigated.
I like the larger screen when talking to NPC's, but, maybe you could add a space between an NPC's words, and our potential replies? Its kind of sandwiched together at the top of the screen right now.
Also the camera angle during conversations is rather weird. It seems inconsistent now, changing at times. Has anyone else noticed this?
Overall though, it's an improvement! :cool:
Dr Strange
05-08-14, 14:49
I know aoe weapons had a damage nerf, but did some weapons get their rate of fire tweaked? Using a Winding Argument (rare nade launcher), it now feels like an eternity between each shot, like its so slow now it's just faster for me to use a single target weapon.
Compared to the damage per minute/second of Heavy Combat Weapons:
Drones do 10% less damage.
Melee Weapons do 7.5% more damage
Pistols and Rifles do 10% more damage
APU Spells do 15% more damage
okay but useless for apus, cuz of the the low techlvl apu spells..
new spells inc?!
Ryosai Bladewin
05-08-14, 15:15
Yes, the APUs get the short straw in this.
The APU damage ratio compared to the other characters is sadness.
Hacknet also is buggy. Cant join into. Hackscreen is available, but nothing more. Belts are locked too after hacking.
Hacknet also is buggy. Cant join into. Hackscreen is available, but nothing more. Belts are locked too after hacking.
This will relate to the earlier mentioned hack issue, which we are still investigating at the moment.
Once we know more, we will get an update posted to you all.
Powerpunsh
05-08-14, 16:05
In general i find the PVE and PVP damage to low. The Weapon overall damage is way lower and the fixed lowered frequency decreases it way more. Making pistols and rifles more powerful than heavy combat weapons is a deal i could live with look on the resistance the specific classes has but there are more factors like stealth and the new buffed nanites.
I dont like this direction. Now it is making a tank to force even more on pistol/rifle setups.
More damage for each skillpoint (ye, a tank wont reach probably not that much PC/RC than HC but its still worth it) and whats best: Quite invulnerability from piercing weapons. 77-78% resis is possible WITHOUT buffs.
I hope to see some adjustments soon. See you ingame. =)
I know aoe weapons had a damage nerf, but did some weapons get their rate of fire tweaked? Using a Winding Argument (rare nade launcher), it now feels like an eternity between each shot, like its so slow now it's just faster for me to use a single target weapon.
Both my Assault rifle, and Substandard Pulselaser Rifle took a damage hit with the patch. I know the rifles damage went from 13 per round down to 10 dmg per round. Not sure of the pulse rifles exact drop. I believe it was doing 16, Now 11. Those figures are on lowbie mobs, Rats and Radiated Roaches.
hmmm....am i the only one with sync problems ? All 3-4 sectorchanges (appartment, sewer, sector,...) i lost the connection. Syncronising.
In general i find the PVE and PVP damage to low. The Weapon overall damage is way lower and the fixed lowered frequency decreases it way more. Making pistols and rifles more powerful than heavy combat weapons is a deal i could live with look on the resistance the specific classes has but there are more factors like stealth and the new buffed nanites.
I dont like this direction. Now it is making a tank to force even more on pistol/rifle setups.
More damage for each skillpoint (ye, a tank wont reach probably not that much PC/RC than HC but its still worth it) and whats best: Quite invulnerability from piercing weapons. 77-78% resis is possible WITHOUT buffs.
I hope to see some adjustments soon. See you ingame. =)
I would recommend to just do a lot of PvP against all the different classes and respec to get the maximum. After a month or two we should see clearer regarding the different benefits each class has or has not.
Thank You for making the devourer OP...i am better with the dev than the dissy =) Love Tino <3
Omfg... I started to read the notes and was like would it not be cool if they actually moved the anti spells from PPU back to APU again...
And then... I shed a tear...
EDIT: Logic typing fail deluxe.
I don't understand why the devourer is still overpowered. There were so many posts about the incredible damage and nothing changed. Now you get 5 hits of the devourer and they kill you after the sync in the safe zone due to the stack damage...
A statement of the responsible dev member to this will be nice.
I'm not the responsible dev nor do I have any intel on this one, but as mentioned within the previous Development Update (http://www.neocron-game.com/development-updates/balancing-the-near-future) we're aiming towards updating more often and therefore faster. As of this fact: In case there are some real damage issues with the devourer, they'll be fixed soon(er)(TM).
I'm not the responsible dev nor do I have any intel on this one, but as mentioned within the previous Development Update (http://www.neocron-game.com/development-updates/balancing-the-near-future) we're aiming towards updating more often and therefore faster. As of this fact: In case there are some real damage issues with the devourer, they'll be fixed soon(er)(TM).
For any further "soon (TM)" you will offer the community free ice cream ;) First it was funny to read this but now to use in any post the "soon (TM) is a little bit ridiculous, isn't it? A sentence like "We are on it and investigating the issue and give you feedback if we know much more ;) "
//////// And Now A Post With Tested Feedback, Which Is The Point Of This Thread \\\\\\\\
Something is wrong with foreign casted shields & I think SHIELDS in general. Multiple effects: #1: Foreign casted targets take random dmg (22-57 dmg all chest shots). #2: Damageboost has no effect on a shielded target, and you actually do ~4 LESS dmg. Self casted shields barely applying any defense. (Self-casted PE shields applied only 8% defense.)
//end
So much for all the time and feedbak people invested... Only to be be promptly disregarded by the DEV team.
Look guys, me and Tino gave you the heads up "4 to 6 weeks" (TM) ago about the Devourer and stack damage issues and yet you patched without even fixing it.
@ Kronos I've seen you in-game blaming community for lack of testing and I'll tell you what mate : if you guys had given feedback to my testing I would've kept testing.
Now another thing for you thick-skulled people : Making mobs harder to kill essentially changes the server's main economic currency's value (un-ressed rares).
You're essentially re-creating what Terra was : Old players are filthy rich while new players have little to no chances or ever bridging that gap and making it on the rare items market.
Do you guys even TRY to consider what the changes you make will effect things ? I think not.
Anyways I'm glad I took a break from this game right now. Looks very frustrating to me.
All we ever wanted was PVP balance BTW. Not Neocron evolution 2.2
Hello.
I hope i didnt double post this.
I play Apu .
Before Patch my Holy Lightning dies up to 520 dmg on Chaos Minion
my full Slotted Holy Toxic Barrel up to 2xx something.
In patch note i read some spell effects changes. and the note that apu spells do 15% more dmg.
The reality is, that the spells do now 15% of the damage before :)
Holy Lightning maximum damage of 115 on the same minions.
Holy Toxic Barrel 33-34.
I went out of cave and quit the game.
In nc1 times the people said. npopd ( never play on patch day )
i be sure you will fix this soon.
you do great work.
so long
zerA
Skeeve Aahz
05-08-14, 20:40
You guys might want to consider a rollback to a pre patch state of Titans database as soon as you got the performance issues sorted out.
Some of those syncs currently affecting Titan seem to include a little server side (probably zone based) rollback, while players inventory doesn't seem to be (always) affected - giving players the ability to loot specific items multiple times. Just happened to me on accident and might be abused on purpose.
Dear Runner,
as you've already noticed we are experiencing some issues currently, potentially affecting player and / or server data. For this reason, Titan remains in testmode from now on.
After we were able to locate all problems and fix them properly, we will rollback Titan to it's state from today close to the patch release. We'll communicate the specific date later on.
Thanks for your feedback and your patience. It really means us a lot.
After we were able to locate all problems and fix them properly, we will rollback Titan to it's state from today after we've deployed the patch.excellent. i want to add i didnt experience any sync issues, neither in NC nor the wastes, despite advanced running around and syncing. i only had one case of infinite server lag - guns not reloading (except drag&drop), mobs not taking damage.
but i'm really unhappy to see the fusion rifle being so weak now. my paineaser does 50% more DoT than the redeemer, but i hope this will change.
Powerpunsh
05-08-14, 21:46
I would recommend to just do a lot of PvP against all the different classes and respec to get the maximum. After a month or two we should see clearer regarding the different benefits each class has or has not.
I hope i wont fall asleep while infight. :)
Dear Runner,
as you've already noticed we are experiencing some issues currently, potentially affecting player and / or server data. For this reason, Titan remains in testmode from now on.
After we were able to locate all problems and fix them properly, we will rollback Titan to it's state from today close to the patch release. We'll communicate the specific date later on.
Thanks for your feedback and your patience. It really means us a lot.
While you're at it, you can make PPU playable again and fix the damage over time issues :)
Edit: And reconsider the changes from Neocron Evolution when they removed the DoTs from all weapons except "WoC" and Cannons.
Apocalypsox
05-08-14, 22:01
Oh boy, time to lom my tank back to melee and start punching you all in the face.
Really? this mess is the great balancing?
hacking isnt working, Drones are Crap, 90% of all Weapons are crap (but balanced) ... the other 10% are extremely overpowered
Weapon "Bursts" are slowmotion, even my Skyrim Character draws his Bow faster, than my Highly technologized weapons... far beyond the Year 2800AC...are shooting/reloading.
Terrormaulers now deal more Damage than Persecutor before ....
DoTs are messed up, now we can melee down a Grim Chaser with bare hands....as a Spy (dramatized!)
Areaweapons/Spells etc are fucked up .... Starting Grenadelauncher deals incredibely 1 Damage .... Holy Pestilence deals 33 ....
Did i miss something? (i'll bet i do .. lol)
Anyone else wishes this back? -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tdVbg5qwm4
Did I miss something ?
You can't cast anti-poison etc. in safezones
Imps are very cool now:
http://www.fotos-hochladen.net/view/shot0078p5fao6bih0.jpg
Edit: And reconsider the changes from Neocron Evolution when they removed the DoTs from all weapons except "WoC" and Cannons.
This. I've commented several times regarding DoT's on APU spells.. Apoc/Poison Beam etc, why is there still no rare poison beam either..?
Thank you all for your patience during this rough deployment. Annoyingly due to some differences between Public Test and Retail we are seeing numerous problems that you have obviously encountered and reported. We appreciate those reports and are thankful for the feedback we have already received.
Measures were put in place to counter those differences, however due to the load on Titan (something we cannot easily produce in test conditions), Murphy's Law is back to kick us while we're down. In an effort to be as transparent as possible, hopefully the following suitably describes the issue.
Most of the current issues are caused by the way in which Neocron talks to itself internally. The issue plaguing us currently has always existed - and did in the R#185 state - but a change made on Vedeena a few months ago has "awakened the beast" as it were.
Present on Vedeena but undetected since then, the more severe version of this issue has been significantly compounded by Titan's population. Even when Titan's population is low it can easily be 1000s of percent higher than Vedeena's, this has brought forward the issues you see at the moment. Some internal logic is being incorrectly interpreted, on a small scale this "corrects" itself harmlessly - not entirely but enough to get by. Under load, this kinda-almost-nearly-correction does not happen fast enough and parts of the game have faulted quite dramatically. As you're obviously aware.
Please don't see that as an excuse, it is not, it is an honest admission of the issues we're facing. These are the issue currently being tackled.
Work behind the scenes has not stopped since patch deployment to remedy these issues. I would like to stress again that the team are very appreciative of your patience while we work to remedy this problem. You can expect an update on the issue in the next hour, even if that is simply to announce an extension of Titan's "test mode" period.
Next post, some responses to the direct feedback we have received in this thread.
These guys are too busy listening to their own selves.
They have their own little agendas and ideas avout what Neocron should be, and sadly for me, I disagree with their views and methods and have to suck it up.
Whatever we say here is simply disregarded and answered by "Coming soon (TM)".
As for me, instead of dealing with the frustration of looking at my all-time favorite game being consistently ruined by the people running it, I'd rather stay away from it.
Eventually they will realise that "Proportional DPM curve for weapons" is a shitty approach, and they will undertake the (harder) task of balancing everything manually since, obviously, this is how it needs to be done.
These guys are too busy listening to their own selves.
Yep...
I really don't know ... why i messed my Time on the Testserver .... revealing Problems and discuss them with Devteam.... when they implement the same, fucking Bugs and Errors... two weeks later on the Mainserver.
Playin' now since the beginning of Neocrons first days, seen a lot of Bugs/Errors/Problems/Patches ....Evo 2.1/2.2 as well.....but that takes the cake!
A hot-fix patch will be deployed to Titan in the next 15-30 minutes. This should correct the issues currently being experienced with stability and certain functionality failing to operate. More information when it is available.
Responses to specific feedback are still in-coming.
As per the above, some response to direct feedback received as of 05/08/2014 @ 23:20 BST.
Hopefully this will address some concerns and acknowledge others so we may move forward constructively.
hacking is borked, too. plain warbot is impossible on 80 HCK (like 30 HCK before).
supply boxes are usual in difficulty, but stay locked after hacking.
Mad Copbot and Substandard Cyberguard are too hard too. like hacking a 120/120 security safe right now.
Hacking is one of the main issues affected by the logic issues explained in my last post. While hacking code has not been changed in this patch release, it's traffic through the game has been caught up in the issue we're experiencing. The issue is being worked on and a hotfix will be released as soon as possible. Unfortunately a time frame is not available as of this post.
I like the larger screen when talking to NPC's, but, maybe you could add a space between an NPC's words, and our potential replies? Its kind of sandwiched together at the top of the screen right now.
Also the camera angle during conversations is rather weird. It seems inconsistent now, changing at times. Has anyone else noticed this?
Overall though, it's an improvement! :cool:
Thank you for your feedback. The current implementation of the new NPC dialogue window is still a work in progress. While some aspects need to be improved - such as the mentioned camera angles - we felt the benefits provided by this initial stable version, outstrip any negatives or "rough edges" at the point of release. This is something that will see improvements in future patches.
I know aoe weapons had a damage nerf, but did some weapons get their rate of fire tweaked? Using a Winding Argument (rare nade launcher), it now feels like an eternity between each shot, like its so slow now it's just faster for me to use a single target weapon.
Changes to rate of fire have been made by the removal of sub-skill effect on weapon frequency. Where pre-patch you will have gained a frequency bonus from your skills, this is no longer the case.
As weapons are now balanced by their damage per minute, we can tweak their frequency by lowering damage-per-shot and increasing rate-of-fire. If you feel any specific weapons are majorly affected by these changes (too fast, too slow), please raise separate threads in the Brainport. This will help us to investigate these weapons on a case by case basis and make changes as appropriate.
okay but useless for apus, cuz of the the low techlvl apu spells..
new spells inc?!
Can you please expand? An issue which prevented many low level APU spells from casting was fixed in this patch. I hope this is the issue you describe. If not, more details would be appreciated.
In general i find the PVE and PVP damage to low. The Weapon overall damage is way lower and the fixed lowered frequency decreases it way more. Making pistols and rifles more powerful than heavy combat weapons is a deal i could live with look on the resistance the specific classes has but there are more factors like stealth and the new buffed nanites.
I dont like this direction. Now it is making a tank to force even more on pistol/rifle setups.
More damage for each skillpoint (ye, a tank wont reach probably not that much PC/RC than HC but its still worth it) and whats best: Quite invulnerability from piercing weapons. 77-78% resis is possible WITHOUT buffs.
I hope to see some adjustments soon. See you ingame. =)
Thank you for your feedback. A number of aspects of a players arsenal have yet to be touched. Some of these such as armour and implants will be addressed in the next wave of changes. Balance is a constantly evolving state, if you can provide more specifics we can use that data in order to address and adjust our big picture. Part of the changes in this patch were to unravel nanites and make them more useful, if that has come too far we can of course push them back a little.
Both my Assault rifle, and Substandard Pulselaser Rifle took a damage hit with the patch. I know the rifles damage went from 13 per round down to 10 dmg per round. Not sure of the pulse rifles exact drop. I believe it was doing 16, Now 11. Those figures are on lowbie mobs, Rats and Radiated Roaches.
Thanks for the feedback, some weapons will be doing less (or more) damage per shot as they now fall in line based on TL. If a whole series of weapons feels too under-powered compared to another series, we can uplift the whole series. This would be based on long term feedback.
hmmm....am i the only one with sync problems ? All 3-4 sectorchanges (appartment, sewer, sector,...) i lost the connection. Syncronising.
A number of users (including members of the Neocron Support Team) are experiencing issues with syncing. This is caused by the issues outlined in my previous post.
I would recommend to just do a lot of PvP against all the different classes and respec to get the maximum. After a month or two we should see clearer regarding the different benefits each class has or has not.
This would be incredibly helpful.
Thank You for making the devourer OP...i am better with the dev than the dissy =) Love Tino <3
I don't understand why the devourer is still overpowered. There were so many posts about the incredible damage and nothing changed. Now you get 5 hits of the devourer and they kill you after the sync in the safe zone due to the stack damage...
A statement of the responsible dev member to this will be nice.
Information will be provided regarding the Devourer as soon as possible. This particular issue will be dealt with once Titan has returned to a stable state. Getting Titan back to "retail mode" is currently the top priority of relevant members of the team (which is why i'm responding and not one of them). We have not ignored previous feedback on the issue and appreciate the time spent on Vedeena to provide that information.
For any further "soon (TM)" you will offer the community free ice cream ;) First it was funny to read this but now to use in any post the "soon (TM) is a little bit ridiculous, isn't it? A sentence like "We are on it and investigating the issue and give you feedback if we know much more ;) "
Generally we cannot give any time frames for deployment or expected changes. Unfortunately this is due to the way in which our time is dictated by none-Neocron commitments. When we know a positive or incremental change is "coming as quickly as we're able to deliver it", we have fallen to the old 'Soon™' terminology as a catch all place holder - mainly as a tease. I appreciate that this is not always suitable nor appropriate, especially in times where issues are preventing our players from enjoying the Neocron Service.
As explained above, members of the team have continued to work on the issues since patch deployment. Alduin is currently investigating all issues identified and testing fixes internally to remedy them. A number of issues have been located and fixed, however some remain. At this time we're unable to offer a firm timeframe for a hotfix patch. With that said we will be able to confirm at least an extension of Titan's "test mode" operation, likely by the time i've finished writing this post.
//////// And Now A Post With Tested Feedback, Which Is The Point Of This Thread \\\\\\\\
Something is wrong with foreign casted shields & I think SHIELDS in general. Multiple effects: #1: Foreign casted targets take random dmg (22-57 dmg all chest shots). #2: Damageboost has no effect on a shielded target, and you actually do ~4 LESS dmg. Self casted shields barely applying any defense. (Self-casted PE shields applied only 8% defense.)
//end
We believe this is also linked to the current issues explained above. We will re-check once Titan has returned to a stable state.
Now another thing for you thick-skulled people : Making mobs harder to kill essentially changes the server's main economic currency's value (un-ressed rares).
It is not possible to change everything in a single big-bang. Unfortunately some aspects of the game were always going to be harder hit than others when changes are made, until they are changed to compensate.
In order to remove some of the hard coded roadblocks we have had to upset the apple cart and break the status quo. PvE combat is inherently linked to PvP combat as both are completed with the same tools - player wielded weapons. In a later patch PvE combat will be adjusted. In order to tackle the main complaint from the community - both in and out of game - PvP was top of the list to re-balance. Regardless of where we started, be it PvP or PvE, we were never going to please everyone. That's simply not possible.
Do you guys even TRY to consider what the changes you make will effect things ? I think not.
[snip]
All we ever wanted was PVP balance BTW. Not Neocron evolution 2.2
We do consider the further reaching impacts and in order to progress to at least some degree, certain things have to be prioritised over others. Based on community feedback, PvP came first. This is not the end state, this is the foundation for a much more iterative cycle of changes.
Hello.
I hope i didnt double post this.
I play Apu .
Before Patch my Holy Lightning dies up to 520 dmg on Chaos Minion
my full Slotted Holy Toxic Barrel up to 2xx something.
In patch note i read some spell effects changes. and the note that apu spells do 15% more dmg.
The reality is, that the spells do now 15% of the damage before :)
Holy Lightning maximum damage of 115 on the same minions.
Holy Toxic Barrel 33-34.
I went out of cave and quit the game.
In nc1 times the people said. npopd ( never play on patch day )
i be sure you will fix this soon.
you do great work.
so long
zerA
This is to be expected. The 15% extra damage is a relative change. APU does 15% more damage in comparison to a Tank weapon of the same Tech Level. Overall the damage out put of a number of weapons has been changed, you should not expect 15% more damage than pre-patch.
While you're at it, you can make PPU playable again and fix the damage over time issues :)
Can you expand on this please?
You can't cast anti-poison etc. in safezones
Thanks.
This. I've commented several times regarding DoT's on APU spells.. Apoc/Poison Beam etc, why is there still no rare poison beam either..?
Please utilise the Brainport for any suggested additions to the weapon line up.
Hotfix R#187 has now been applied to Titan.
With the release of R#187 Titan remains in "test mode" until we can be sure stability has been restored. As of this post the "test mode" operation of Titan will continue until 19:00 BST on Wednesday 6th August 2014 (tomorrow).
Once we are satisfied with the stability of Titan, a full database roll back will be performed at the end of the test mode period. Any progress made between the deployment of R#186 and 06/08/2014 @ 19:00BST will be reset. Titan will be rolled back to it's pre-R#186 state at this time.
No specific patch notes are provided for R#187, this patch addresses the stability and functionality issues discovered in R#186 when applied to Titan. Many issues experienced under R#186 were caused by the knock on effects of internal server crashes, which should now be resolved.
This includes but is not limited to the following: Hacking (including HackNet), drone combat, spell casting, vanishing shields/buffs, foreign affects sticking and server (visible and internal) crashes.
Any continued odd behavior not related to weapon balance changes, should be reported here as normal.
For information on the cause of the stability issues, please see my prior post (http://forum.neocron-game.com/showthread.php?155724-R-186-Patch-Discussion-and-Feedback&p=2227878&viewfull=1#post2227878).
We appreciate your patience during this rough deployment and hope to see you in game.
You can kill yourself with a Nanite Pyrolizer tool as of r187
Also, the res animation has changed and it seems pretty awesome. If it is on purpose, bravo, if it's not-- we should probably find a way to keep it.
Is the huge reduction of the damage output of mobs intended? I've been fighting 4-5 launchers without a care in the world as a low level spy. I can't say a specific level but when i started my dex was 30. Pre-patch i had to be super careful. I assume it is linked to this
An additional damage boost given to NPCs/Mobs based on their level has been removed. This is now achieved by the Tech Level dependence of weapons.
Right after the patch I went down into the sewers, PP, lev 3 just to check out my weapons. I noticed the mobs like Bats, black roaches and even spiders AI seemed a bit less fuzzy. Meaning they actually moved to attack me as opposed to wandering around. That's a good thing. But with this I noticed the black roaches, the flying ones were doing like 140-180 dmg per hit on my Assassin, who's lev 23. That seems rather high damage for a creature that gives 17 exp when killed (and is hard to target btw!).
Please utilise the Brainport for any suggested additions to the weapon line up.
Maybe regarding the poison beam, but what about previous DoT's on APU Beams?
We have identified further issues responsible for server crashes since the deployment of R#187. While stability has improved greatly with the latest hotfix, the remaining issues need to be addressed with a further hotfix patch - at least on the server side. At the moment our priority remains getting Titan back to a stable state.
Crashes over night have been linked back to the NPC AI changes implemented in R#186-T#186. Operation in the retail environment has brought edge cases to more frequent use, causing these crashes to surface.
Once Titan's stability has been addressed, we will then move to address any pressing issues associated with the new balance state. More information will be provided as and when we have it.
jj dynomite
06-08-14, 12:18
Thanks for keeping us updated Devs!
Once you get the server stable again, take a look at Mob damage. I was fighting in the middle of 3 WBs, a copbot, a WBT and a small spiderbot and they weren't doing enough damage for me to even worry. Seems really low on their output.
Cant find loompils in TG. Anything else i can find....but no loompills. Any plans for it ?
A server side hotfix has been applied to Titan, fixing the issues i outlined in my previous post. A small hotfix may still be required to tidy up the client side of this issue but that will be deployed during the roll back downtime later this evening if required.
As of this post we are still aiming to return to take Titan down at 1900 BST, at that time the database will be rolled back to it's pre-R#186 state and normal operation will commence. All progress since the deployment of R#186 will be rolled back at that point.
Cant find loompils in TG. Anything else i can find....but no loompills. Any plans for it ?
Please drop any suggestions for improvements into the Brainport forum, thanks.
Again we thank you for your continued patience and support during these issues. It means a lot. The best way to assist us at this moment is to pile onto Titan, putting a regular prime-time load onto the server will help us ensure we've caught any remaining issues. You need not worry about losing belts, soullight or faction sympathy during "test mode" as this will be reset with the database rollback.
While you're at it, you can make PPU playable again and fix the damage over time issues
Can you expand on this please?
Damage over time issues are selfexplained and stated here very often :D (just to state some numbers: fire dmg of Devourer = 100, DoT damage with 5 stacks = 300, values are without shield/skill/armor reduction).
About PPU: you can kill a PPU without "antis", cause the shields are about 70 - 80% selfcast (got the values out of log) and with decreasing of heal power and healtick, you can't heal away the damage. It seems like the shieldpower was decreased according to their TL, too (before patch it was 85% on selfcast for all 3 shields), Holy Deflection shields with about 70% and up to nearly 80% on Holy Absorption, the Holy Protection states between them. It also seems that the shields are loosing it's power faster than before the patch, that I need to recast more often.
Another comparsion: CS is doing lesser damage than before, but with new shields applied the damage on ppu is nearly the same, but with force/pierce damage, as you have lesser protection, you will get way more damage than before.
This applied to the higher psi costs and that you need to recast the heal more often, too, your mana is always low and you're eating more psi boosters than before with "antis" on ppu.
I know that the weapons do now lesser damage in comparsion to before and that's why you decreased the heal but you decreased the shields, too, so it isn't balanced anymore. You should try with one or another, not both.
Another thing is, that you can cast the "antis" faster or nearly the same as your shields or heal, now. That means, that you never get a shield or heal on you just for a second and you're dying even faster.
So to make it balanced, you should increase the shield power a lil bit on selfcast and increase the tick again, the heal power itself can be the same (or you increase healpower and let the tick the same). In addition you should increase the frequency (casttime) on shields and heal again or decrease on antis.
I hope this explanation helps alot :)
About PPU: you can kill a PPU without "antis", cause the shields are about 70 - 80% selfcast (got the values out of log) and with decreasing of heal power and healtick, you can't heal away the damage. It seems like the shieldpower was decreased according to their TL, too (before patch it was 85% on selfcast for all 3 shields), Holy Deflection shields with about 70% and up to nearly 80% on Holy Absorption, the Holy Protection states between them. It also seems that the shields are loosing it's power faster than before the patch, that I need to recast more often.
which weapons did you test against a PPU? That you can't heal against a devourer at the moment should be clear that this is impossible. So to compare the self cast with the devourer is quite useless. The Dissy also has a high damage per burst but the frequency is verly low now. The high damage of one burst also reduces the shield power very quick as with a faster frequency.
So to make it balanced, you should increase the shield power a lil bit on selfcast and increase the tick again, the heal power itself can be the same (or you increase healpower and let the tick the same). In addition you should increase the frequency (casttime) on shields and heal again or decrease on antis.
I agree to increase the heal per tick. It could be about 5-7% more as now. But I'm against to increase the cast time of the shields. The frequency is ok in my opinion and you should not get the shield instantly like it was before.
To defuse the high spamming of antis the frequency should be lowered a little bit.
For example:
- the normal antis 8 seconds
- the blessed antis 6 seconds
- the holy antis 4 seconds
In the past like NC1 they weren't as fast as now. Please keep in mind that a return of the godmode for PPU's will make fun for the mates who play them but not for the damage dealers who want to kill and hunt them around the trees ;)
But maybe phase two (balancing of the implants and armors) will solve some issues of the damage as well. So they can adjust the damage to the current armors and implants but if they release phase two the need to re-adjust the damage again and this could be the reason why they don't adjust the damage of all weapons in the near future. But we don't need to discuss that there are overpowered weapons at the moment that need to be fixed as fast as possible ;)
INeedMoreWeed
06-08-14, 19:58
Well i have Tested the Droner today while we have Test mode... I have to say The Dmg output ist ok on the most Drones BUT if you keep the Flightspeed so low and the flight altitude fixed to 2m. The Droner will be usable for PvP cuz the Drones cant get over the Walls of a Outpost! If you could fix the flight altitude to 50 m and speed up the flightspeed a lil bit. Then the Droner will be nice Balanced in my Eyes! Also i think you nerfed all Area Effekt dmg to hard... a lot ppl would be lucky if you wil delete the -2 factor on all Area Effekt weapons / spells and just Balance them like all other weapons / spells Based on the Techlevel!
which weapons did you test against a PPU? That you can't heal against a devourer at the moment should be clear that this is impossible. So to compare the self cast with the devourer is quite useless. The Dissy also has a high damage per burst but the frequency is verly low now. The high damage of one burst also reduces the shield power very quick as with a faster frequency.
I agree to increase the heal per tick. It could be about 5-7% more as now. But I'm against to increase the cast time of the shields. The frequency is ok in my opinion and you should not get the shield instantly like it was before.
To defuse the high spamming of antis the frequency should be lowered a little bit.
For example:
- the normal antis 8 seconds
- the blessed antis 6 seconds
- the holy antis 4 seconds
In the past like NC1 they weren't as fast as now. Please keep in mind that a return of the godmode for PPU's will make fun for the mates who play them but not for the damage dealers who want to kill and hunt them around the trees ;)
But maybe phase two (balancing of the implants and armors) will solve some issues of the damage as well. So they can adjust the damage to the current armors and implants but if they release phase two the need to re-adjust the damage again and this could be the reason why they don't adjust the damage of all weapons in the near future. But we don't need to discuss that there are overpowered weapons at the moment that need to be fixed as fast as possible ;)
The weapon I tested was the dreadfire prototype (rare gatlin pistol with no DoT). It literally destroyed the ppu. You can't heal against XBow (no DoT), or SWAT Backup Gun (with fire DoT), neither.
Hallo Runner
Wer nicht das ganze drum und dran lesen möchte, kann runterscrollen und sich das zusammengefasste durchlesen.
Um Kontruktives Feedback abzugeben, erwartet wie jeder andere auch, dass es sich zu herzen genommen wird.
zu allererst finde ich, dass einige Patchnotes gar nicht so schlecht sind. Allerdings (so meine meinung) sollte an den Ecken gearbeitet werden, die am schlimmsten sind. Klar ist Balancing ein sehr wichtiges Thema. aber inwiefern ist es unbelanced seit 2013, dass die Letzten Patches es hätten ausbügeln können. Es gab Super Ansätze
-anti-cheater-patch
-anti-shield-shitbuff-cast-patch
-anti-clipper-patch
jedoch, ist es nicht korrekt das Spiel und die Spielmechanik so zu verändern, dass die schönen Individuellen Einzelheiten verloren gehen. z.B.
-Durch den anti-clipping-patch waren alle zu schnell. Es ist verständlich, dass man den Speed verringern musste. Aber man hätte es so machen können, dass nach der Speedverringerung es sich so angefühlt hätte wie vor dem anti-clipping-patch, der Speedcapped hat den tank erst kaputt gemacht, wenn alle den gleichen Speed haben, dann kann man auch atl und agl rausnehmen und counter strike drauf schreiben.
!! Evtl wäre da eine Proportionale Speedreduction von (austestungsabhängig) z.B. 40% gereicht ohne andere Spielmechaniken zu beeinflussen. Zufolge, dass jedoch ein Speedcapped eingeführt wurde, musste man den Geschwindigkeitsabzug bei schweren Waffen verringern da der Tank nicht hinterher kam. Ich dachte, dass es so gedacht war, dass ein Tank die Waffe wegsteckt um durch den dadurch gewonnen Speed sich etwas zu schützen, also im Prinzip war das Wegstecken der Waffe für den Tank wie das Stealthtool für den Spy, diese kleine aber feine Klassenindividuelle Eigenschaft wurde leider kaputtgemacht.
zudem ist der Speedabzug bei komplett kaputten beinen etwas krass eingestellt, im 1v1 ist es so, wer zuerst die beine getroffen hat, hat gewonnen.
Damals sagte man im Op-Fight (Mister X hat Fullanti alle drauf), heute sagt man (Mister X hat kaputte beine, alle drauf) das ist ein bisschen schade.
Die Disi war definitiv zu stark und musste genervt werden, ob 25% angemessen war, ich sehe niemanden mehr damit rumlaufen, das gilt für die AK umso mehr. Man hätte sie auch in kleinen schritten nerven können um zu schauen wie es sich entwickelt, sie komplett zu nerven hatte zufolge, dass keiner sie mehr benutzte und so richtig sehen, ob diese nerv gut war, konnte man daher nicht.
-Die Schlimmen ecken waren (Netcode) der gut gefixt wurde, aber man hätte den Speed nicht so kaputtmachen müssen
-dann ist es vllt so, dass teile der Community möchten, dass der APU wieder die antis bekommt. Aber dann kommt der APU doch garnichtmehr seine Angriffspells zu benutzen, das war doch Der Grund der damals genannt wurde, als der PPU auchmal etwas unfrieden machen durfte. Nungut, jede community ist anders, wen der PPU zuviele spells hat kann man alternativ auch alle Primes ine ienen spell namens Primes, Blessed Primes und Holy Primes zusammenf+ügen und dafür bekommt jeder unter z.B. F4 drei kleine reiter für 1. Spybuff, consterbuff, supporterbuff usw 2. Heatbuff, Hazardbuff, Basicbuff 3. Combatbuffs wobei man nur eins anklicken kann, den man dann mit wirken vom spell "primes" erhält.
-um den APU nicht als unbalanced-opfer dastehen zu lassen kann man ihn evtl das psi shield geben, was für den ppu totaler mist ist, da ein ppu ohne mana kann keine schilde mehr nachcasten und daher keine rare-selfcast-absorb mehr bekommen.
-um den schaden des apus wieder eine rolle spielen zu lassen, kann man ihn leicht erhöhen und schuaen wie es sich im op fight verhält und immer wieder nachstärken, bis man merkt es ist gut genug und es hat sich eingependelt.
-das gleiche mit 2-3 meelewaffen (um alles überhaupt erstmal halbwegs balanced zu machen dann kann man sich auch ans großprojekt rannwagen.
-bugfixes für die man gebannt werden kann schrecken neue spieler ab. negativ SL entgehen durch vollstacken und syncen fixen oder durch das verlassen eines syncs werden alle stacks die man gemacht hat und evtl noch laufen entfernt.
Das sind so kleine sachen die Neocron wertvoll machen und die man nicht so einfach ignorieren sollte.
!! mein persönliches Fazit (zusammengefasst) !!
-speedcapped wieder raus und den speed proportional anpassen damit es wie vorher ist
-speedverlust bei schweren waffen wieder anpassen, das war doch das besondere induviduelle für den tank
-speedverringerung durch beinbeschuss angenehm aber useful anpassen
-dmg vom apu und meele tank und riflespy LEICHT anschrauben und einpendeln lassen
-psi buff auf apu, damit induvidueall der apu eine überlebensmöglichkeit bekommt und nicht der ganze monk, da der ppu schon genug hat.
-bugs fixen wie faction symp fürs killen von feindlichen biotech npcs und schießen oder sync shoots oder silent spells.
-btw aufm testserver waren alles was stacks macht vom DMG zu stark!
-der heal meiner meinung nach zu gering.
lg Beelzebub
btw
-FPS goes low / fps einbrüche hab ich seit dem patch und ich bin damit nicht alleine
-der rezz dauert zu lang und die leucht rezz animation hängt am ende.
One spell of the test server is missing. The Holy Anti Protection is missing on the retail server. I didn't find it in the Crahn database nor at the trade in PP2. Is the spell a rare item now?
jj dynomite
06-08-14, 22:27
Mob damage still seems a bit low. their fire rate is normal...they just aren't doing enough damage.
Also, the hacking success voice "Log in security passed" has changed. Is that on purpose? It used to sound like a good computer voice, now it sounds a bit like an old aunt trying to tell me how adorable i am.
Just logged onto retail to have a look around. I can now cast multiple Holy Pestilence and stand in the middle of it and it hardly inflicts any damage at all. Casting it in the sewer deals approx. 32-37 damage to small spiders, roaches etc.
Running through Via Rossa I stumbled across two tanks with Devourers, needless to say, I was dead within seconds.. APU really is a shit class to play these days, you cannot venture out of a safezone as you'll be looking for a poke pretty sharpish..
The class is a chore to play.
Skeeve Aahz
07-08-14, 00:44
I've been reviewing some of the healing spells during the testing phase earlier today and wrote down some numbers I'd like to share with you guys. Please note that I haven't been playing for quite a while so I can't supply any pre patch values to any of these spells - I just want to provide you with some valueable data instead of posting something like "fix healz" or "nerf devo".
All values posted below are average values took out of multiple casts with each spell - covering 30 seconds each and including the passive healing a capped character usually provides during that time.
TL36 / SURVIVAL KIT (thought you might want to have this as some kind of baseline)
total amount healed: 197
calculated hp/s: 6,57
TL3 / CRAHN HEAL - 100% DMG
total amount healed: 168
calculated hp/s: 5,60
TL3 / CRAHN HEAL - 146% DMG (PE)
total amount healed: 217
calculated hp/s: 7,23
TL3 / CRAHN HEAL - 187% DMG (PPU without PA)
total amount healed: 338
calculated hp/s: 11,27
TL10 / CRAHNS REJUVENATION - 100% DMG
total amount healed: 164
calculated hp/s: 5,47
TL10 / CRAHNS REJUVENATION - 138% DMG (PE)
total amount healed: 216
calculated hp/s: 7,20
TL10 / CRAHNS REJUVENATION - 178% DMG (PPU without PA)
total amount healed: 318
calculated hp/s: 10,60
TL55 / CRAHN BLESSED HEAL - 100% DMG
total amount healed: 216
calculated hp/s: 7,20
TL55 / CRAHN BLESSED HEAL - 164% DMG (PPU without PA)
total amount healed: 335
calculated hp/s: 11,18
TL55 / CRAHN BLESSED HEAL - 175% DMG
total amount healed: 354
calculated hp/s: 11,80
TL85 / CRAHN HOLY HEAL - 100% DMG
total amount healed: 304
calculated hp/s: 10,13
TL85 / CRAHN HOLY HEAL - 149% DMG (PPU without PA)
total amount healed: 419
calculated hp/s: 13,96
TL85 / CRAHN HOLY HEAL - 161% DMG
total amount healed: 447
calculated hp/s: 14,90
As you can see, a PE using the standard TL3 heal combined with a survival kit can actually get quite close to the amount a PPU would provide with his TL85 holy one (which seems kinda insane). Another thing I didn't expect to see were those lower TL heals performing as good as the blessed TL55 ones when used at higher (damage) percentages.
Well, I haven't been participating in any PVP fights on this patch level yet, but it also feels like those (almost) 15 hp/s a PPU gets out of the holy heal could be quite easily countered (even by a single damage dealer) - effectively forcing you to move and/or die (as soon as someone else joins the fight - even without getting an antibuff).
In my very own opinion these numbers look like there's something wrong about the tech level scaling correctly to the amount healed, resulting in a kinda weak holy heal and (compared to that) quite strong lower TL heals with just marginal differences between each other - which might need a little rework in the near future.
Just my (hopefully at least a little useful) two cents.
As of 188, the nanite pyrolizer tool still damages the user quite a bit. You can kill yourself quite easily with them.
I think, or it seams like, that in the whole balancing process they didn't took in account the individual dmg % with skills. For example: they changed the dpm curve of each weapon acording to 100% on dmg but on lower TL you can reach higher % on dmg than on higher TL and with this, the gap between low tl and high tl weapon/heal is smaller. In addition to that, the dpm curve is degressive, means the dmg on higher tl will not increase so much, either.
Tested on testserver with spy: the difference between First Love (tl114) and Enhanced Plasma Rifle (tl82) is only 5-6 dmg per shot.
Same is with the heal, like skeeve wrote.
Well I think that is pretty much what they wanted to achieve... You can now play your PE with an Enhanced Plasma Rifle and compete.
Dr Strange
07-08-14, 12:48
Are we still in testmode for Titan? I know test mode was supposed to end around 1900 BST yesterday, just want to confirm if the rollback happened or not so I can continue leveling
Are we still in testmode for Titan? I know test mode was supposed to end around 1900 BST yesterday, just want to confirm if the rollback happened or not so I can continue leveling
Titan is back in retail mode since yesterday evening. We have also activated doubleXP until monday. :)
Pestilence
07-08-14, 19:58
What I dislike the most is the font in your local list or in the "online runner" tab in Citycom. Okay, I'm not becoming younger, but I'm not that old. Nonetheless it's hardly readable :)
As I remember correctly, you can change the font. But don't ask me how :D
But I got another issue with this patch:
http://forum.neocron-game.com/showthread.php?155737-Fps-jumps-after-the-Patch
Your changes on "CPU Handling" increased my performance, but killed the performance of other players. Maybe a checkbox will be nice to use single/multi core/threading.
Edit: or is there an entry in some ini file to change this?
Will there be patchnotes for R#187 and R#188?
Malabolgia
07-08-14, 23:05
Sorry for the delay, I wanted to get the drones feedback done, now its the one from hacknet. Well, real-life catches you faster than a crawler in regant.
Hacknet:
"old" shield and heal-duration must be back. Same is with their strength, wich was quite low already. I know other times from Terra server where hacknet was fun :(
As soon as these are casted and you are concentrated on how to move and get mobs on correct range (outranging with modded software), your heal ran out already.
Another remarkable disadvantage is that now you cannot recast your shield and heal anymore until its almost run out. On high level, if you cannot avoid to pull several high level mobs and have around 30 stacks (permanently!) on you - only half a second of not healing will kill you for sure. Now its getting even worse because you will definately have a break in healing.
Hacknet high level heal now cannot even heal out mid level mobs there. Testing on high level mobs now not longer possible.
Killing a mob in hack needs longer than same level mob in regant. This was a problem before already.
heal and shield must be much stronger to survive the mob packs and their stacks as there is often no way to prevent attacking of mobs in packs. Attack in packs itself is a good behaviour and can be an interesting challenge.
Leveling itself was very slow in hacknet anyway compared same level mobs in the wastes or dungeon (regant). This refers more to the 96-level mobs before the patch 186. Now even only two 64 level mobs easily knock out an int 95 full hacker on con cap (50% each on energy and xray)
high end software now is in no way capable of withstanding mobs on TH bridge
Even before, PH database storages were not longer pullable as high end hacker thus preventing a full hacker leveling in hack to reach cap in a reasonable manner / time. Remember, PH databeses 1 to 3 should have been the high level dungeons for full hackers. Not only the run to loot for fergusson. No one being able to do the Fergu-run at minimum level requirement can withstand any of the mobs there, and even if, you will die outside with dozens of stacks. And a death is critical, beacuse you will have to walk about 7 minutes back to TH bridge. For the run this is okay, this run should stay as hard. But the general high hacker trying to cap will be annoyed very soon even at the stage before patch 186.
If I missed anything or sth. is wrong, plz apologize. Im tired and I need a rest.
What I dislike the most is the font in your local list or in the "online runner" tab in Citycom. Okay, I'm not becoming younger, but I'm not that old. Nonetheless it's hardly readable :)
We get hi-res fonts... and this?
Hi .
Please dont Ignore this...
So everything is back to Normal?
I was happy this morning to read this.
I logg in my apu and see that nothing has changed,
33 damage with a 5 Slot holy toxic Barrel .....
113 with single shot holy lightning.....
will that be the final kill for APU users?
soo Long zera
Hi .
Please dont Ignore this...
So everything is back to Normal?
I was happy this morning to read this.
I logg in my apu and see that nothing has changed,
33 damage with a 5 Slot holy toxic Barrel .....
113 with single shot holy lightning.....
will that be the final kill for APU users?
soo Long zera
Love how people think because they posted yesterday it would be fixed today.
Kind of like the changes to balancing. There are two exceptions however:
Devourer and APU barrels. First one is too strong and the latter one too weak.
But apart from that it is a nice patch. My APU did some good damage all in all. Melee tank was worth playing and I like the new/old burst of my beloved Cursed Soul.
Good work balancing team!
Last night we "softpatched" Titan with a temporary fix for the Devourer.
The overall damage for this weapon has been reduced by 33%.
Please bear in mind that this will be adjusted again with the next patch.
Last night we "softpatched" Titan with a temporary fix for the Devourer.
The overall damage for this weapon has been reduced by 33%.
Please bear in mind that this will be adjusted again with the next patch.
And what about the chars who instantly die after getting hit by dot damage? They can't play the game, they can't even level, cause most mobs do dot damage.
And what about the chars who instantly die after getting hit by dot damage? They can't play the game, they can't even level, cause most mobs do dot damage.
Could you do me a favor? Hit me again on IRC and I'll test some stuff with you :)
Malabolgia
10-08-14, 13:53
Sorry to add this here in the flow of several posts, but it at the moment for me it doesnt seem important to focus too much about balancing.
Still there are a lot of sync problems, at least I experience them becoming worse. Some people ingame told me the same, so at least Im not alone with this.
The worst thing about it is that if I get a long sync now most likely the client fully hangs and blocks my pc coming back to normal stage. Only cure then is hitting reset and restarting the whole machine. Only occasionally I mange to get the Task manager or a task manager tool-program running to examine the source.
At least I can say that I cannot find any issues by now on my side. Memory useage, bandwith, ping stability seems all nice.
With higher server population (at 6% or more) this is happening quite often. ("higher" ....)
I am no longer in the mood to tolerate this, as Ive lost several rare drones and some other not recoverable items now. It is less the items wich can be replaced somehow and somewhen rather than the time to reboot, repoke, and get to that location again where I was before. After ending up of almost one hour just doing these steps one after another Im looking for an alternative until I hear this is fixed. Playing this way is pure frustration with or without quadruple XP if there was, .... normal gameplay must be possible!
And what about the chars who instantly die after getting hit by dot damage? They can't play the game, they can't even level, cause most mobs do dot damage.
I can only guess your talking about mobs that are high(er) level? In the sewers I get hit with poison and radiation Dot's and they seem pretty tame damage wise.?
Sorry to add this here in the flow of several posts, but it at the moment for me it doesnt seem important to focus too much about balancing.
Still there are a lot of sync problems, at least I experience them becoming worse. Some people ingame told me the same, so at least Im not alone with this.
The worst thing about it is that if I get a long sync now most likely the client fully hangs and blocks my pc coming back to normal stage. Only cure then is hitting reset and restarting the whole machine. Only occasionally I mange to get the Task manager or a task manager tool-program running to examine the source.
At least I can say that I cannot find any issues by now on my side. Memory useage, bandwith, ping stability seems all nice.
With higher server population (at 6% or more) this is happening quite often. ("higher" ....)
I am no longer in the mood to tolerate this, as Ive lost several rare drones and some other not recoverable items now. It is less the items wich can be replaced somehow and somewhen rather than the time to reboot, repoke, and get to that location again where I was before. After ending up of almost one hour just doing these steps one after another Im looking for an alternative until I hear this is fixed. Playing this way is pure frustration with or without quadruple XP if there was, .... normal gameplay must be possible!
I've noticed the "Sync" happening more often as well. Usually with me if it doesn't resolve its self, I can hit Esc and just relogin. It would suck to have to reboot!
I can only guess your talking about mobs that are high(er) level? In the sewers I get hit with poison and radiation Dot's and they seem pretty tame damage wise.?
Nope, I'm talking about any dot. A mate of me dies, even after got hit once by the first flamethrower (tl 24?). He's a capped tank, with full kevlar armor, camouflage power armor and about 90 poison resists.
Nope, I'm talking about any dot. A mate of me dies, even after got hit once by the first flamethrower (tl 24?). He's a capped tank, with full kevlar armor, camouflage power armor and about 90 poison resists.
Wow. I know where some of these guys are. I will go see how their dots hit me. I know before the patch they didn't do hardly any damage that I saw. I guess they got a steroid bump like the flying roaches! :eek:
One thing I noticed about the Devourer is that it now hits for 90% of its damage with a completely open reticle. Where as before you had to have close to a closed reticle to even register a hit at all. The weapon is incredibly easy to use now as far as i can see.
Even with the 33% nerf the Dev is still OP, and the server crashes every few mins making it impossible to level or even do anything at all really.
We're aware of the current situation affecting Titan. We're truly sorry of what is happening currently, but we're definitely doing our best in resolving this situation as fast as we can. However, things are little complicated so we can not give you any fixed ETA,yet.
@Devourer: How it's still OP? Base damage ripping you apart? Or are the dots ticking too hard? Or just the overall damage you're able to deal with the Devourer?
We're aware of the current situation affecting Titan. We're truly sorry of what is happening currently, but we're definitely doing our best in resolving this situation as fast as we can. However, things are little complicated so we can not give you any fixed ETA,yet.
@Devourer: How it's still OP? Base damage ripping you apart? Or are the dots ticking too hard? Or just the overall damage you're able to deal with the Devourer?
Mainly the Dots ticking too hard. It's not just devourer that is the problem it's effecting any DOT in general.... Stack from any weapon. Devourer is the most noticeable as it's the highest TL stack damage weapon. Example; 2 fire stack's from the knightmare in regants boss room = instant death for a PE wearing full inquisition armor. With the DOT stack when running your health could bounce down to 10hlt from 900 easiliy, as soon as the stack is off your health would jump back to full. Not sure if you also aware of the problem with Damage bounce in general since the patches were applied? Pretty much damage across all weapons; your having a fight go down to half health which will then bounce up and down between half health untill you heal yourself or the latter get killed. Really noticeable since the first patch went live needs addressing so PVP is viable again. Happy to post more info if you have any questions or anything specific.
Mainly the Dots ticking too hard. It's not just devourer that is the problem it's effecting any DOT in general.... Stack from any weapon. Devourer is the most noticeable as it's the highest TL stack damage weapon. Example; 2 fire stack's from the knightmare in regants boss room = instant death for a PE wearing full inquisition armor. With the DOT stack when running your health could bounce down to 10hlt from 900 easiliy, as soon as the stack is off your health would jump back to full. Not sure if you also aware of the problem with Damage bounce in general since the patches were applied? Pretty much damage across all weapons; your having a fight go down to half health which will then bounce up and down between half health untill you heal yourself or the latter get killed. Really noticeable since the first patch went live needs addressing so PVP is viable again. Happy to post more info if you have any questions or anything specific.
Definately noticed this. But it's not consistent enough (with what I'm doing) to record what exactly is happening. Usually when I'm testing weapons and mods I will do it in the sewers where the Black Roaches on steroids are as well as mutants and Dragonflies, so I'm getting hit by multiple mobs at once. Really hard to tell what's causing the dmg bounce, but I get taken down to half health (from 600 to 300) then it will shoot back up to 450-500 and just yoyo around.
Could both of you provide some damage logs? That woul'd be very helpful :)
Kami and Revenge drones still do too much damage...does not seem fair that someone can literally be outside the outpost and still kill 3-4 people with 1 drone...I will never understand the logic behind this...Only reason I am posting this is yesterday we were having a fun OP fight until someone on the other team logged a revenge droner and killed 3 ppl and brought the ppu and another fighter to borderline no health! Are the fights going to be decided by lamers not willing to aim a gun? Please look into why suicide bombing drones do so much damage.
We tested revenge drone on ppu, tank and spy and the damage is nowhere near before. Before patch the revenge did 600+ damage on shielded tank. After patch it was nearly the half (350). Spies couldnt get killed instant and ppu damage with shields was about 150 damage.
Maybe yesterday was a fluke, the damage was increased or bad resists. Shields on ppu could be bugged, too (yes, bugged shields on ppu still exist and you don't need to sync to get them).
I am aware of the buggy shields...watched 2-3 people die to 1 revenge drone tho...that in my opinion is still too strong for a character that doesnt even need to be inside the OP to fight.
Could both of you provide some damage logs? That woul'd be very helpful :)
It shouldn't be hard to make what I described above happen again. But how do you record damage logs? I searched here and found this site, http://www.neocron-is.com/ . But is it still active? Or is there a better way to do it besides adding the line to the .ini file? (I can do that, but performance has been kind of iffy lately)
Some feedback:
Firstly - love the Localport randomizer - excellent little timesaving device for dual logging - thank you! One tiny thing is that it reset after the DEV softpatch so i had to edit it again...no biggie obviously.
Tank stuff: Mobs definitely hitting for less; 80/80 warbots now only tickle my capped tank; spiderbots do more damage (but small spiderbots have been OP for a while). My Rav now hits for more than my creed....and not just a little; i mean roughly double the DPM. Not a complaint - just an observation. It seems all plasma weapons came out OK from the patch - My CA Plasma Wave is my new slot #1. Rhino - OMG, what did you do to my beloved Rhino! VHC laser now does 254 dmg (capped) down from something like 426 (iirc, might be 415 or 451: bit hazy on this number)...TTK maybe 1.5 to 1.8 times longer than before (appreciate this is a guess, no hard data for you I am afraid). Rhinoing hoverbots no longer a viable idea unless you want to repair after every kill.
Spy stuff: Mid range rifles (TL 40 -> 70 range) seem to be putting out a little more DPM than before. Raygun not scaling to distance (same at short and long from ~10 mins of testing), fusion does seem to be scaling. This is anecdotal and needs more testing to be honest. Drones: re-iterating some points above. PN and battle drones move stupidly slowly. Damage on PN on par with before....Punisher moves quick and damage also on par with pre-patch. Tech Angels ION drones now on par or out-damage PN.
Hope this helps
Cheers
Coffee
pottburter
12-08-14, 10:20
Anyone else noticed the Item-Bug after death got worse?
Since patch, it happens every time now I die on any character. It used to only happen once in a while.
Tank stuff: Mobs definitely hitting for less; 80/80 warbots now only tickle my capped tank; spiderbots do more damage (but small spiderbots have been OP for a while). My Rav now hits for more than my creed....and not just a little; i mean roughly double the DPM. Not a complaint - just an observation. It seems all plasma weapons came out OK from the patch - My CA Plasma Wave is my new slot #1. Rhino - OMG, what did you do to my beloved Rhino! VHC laser now does 254 dmg (capped) down from something like 426 (iirc, might be 415 or 451: bit hazy on this number)...TTK maybe 1.5 to 1.8 times longer than before (appreciate this is a guess, no hard data for you I am afraid). Rhinoing hoverbots no longer a viable idea unless you want to repair after every kill.
Did you really test this creed < rav stuff? It seems highly unlikely that this is the case. Any numbers? (weapon info screen)
Anyone else noticed the Item-Bug after death got worse?
Since patch, it happens every time now I die on any character. It used to only happen once in a while.item-bug after death isnt a R#188 problem, it came back with the server crash lately.
Testing my Tank with area dmg weapons last days. Doombeamer, Moonstriker and Winding Argument. First dmg is very low and arearange is very small. Full hits (PVE) makes a little bit more dmg, but dots are to low. All these waepons are slow, not really accurate and dmg is to low.
I´m faster with a singleshoot weapon. That makes no sense in my mind.
And Creed vs. ravager.....there are 14 TLs (!!) between this weapons. But why makes the ravager more dmg ? Hmm....strange.
But last not least, its a good game. Thanx for all GMs to make it possible. :-)
Creed vs Rav:
Could you give us some detail about what numbers you are getting. The freq value on the weapons, the per-hit damage, the number of hits per shot and the damage amounts (ensure both are equally modded).
AK:
Could you give us some armour and resist values? A poison modded AK's instant damage is 50% poison, so we need to ensure it's not just a DoT issue.
AoE:
We did deliberately lower blast damage. If you are hitting four or more mobs, can you try to see what total damage you are doing.
pottburter
14-08-14, 09:53
I don't know whether somebody already pointed out or not, but several PPU spells are/seem broken.
- Damage booster doesnt boost at all. Regardless of how many casts you but on a mob.
- Anti-Poison, etc. only works on selfcast. No effect when cast on another player.
- Heal Sanctum only affects the caster.
- Soulcluster behaviour seems even odder than before the patch, often just floating around or rising up in the sky or get randomly stuck on anything around like trees, walls and so on.
Also, imho, the PSI drain for some spells is way to high.
3 shields and resist buff on 2 persons and a bit more than 300 PSI is gone.
Soulcluster costs about 200 PSI to cast once.
Creed vs Rav:
Could you give us some detail about what numbers you are getting. The freq value on the weapons, the per-hit damage, the number of hits per shot and the damage amounts (ensure both are equally modded).
AoE:
We did deliberately lower blast damage. If you are hitting four or more mobs, can you try to see what total damage you are doing.
Tested with Tank unbuffed, no drugs and 206 Heavycombat.
Creed all artifact: 138% dmg, 182% precision, 37/min frequency, 1 hit per shot, magazine 30
Very first hit on Doomreaper: 258 dmg
Ravager all artifact: 145% dmg, 203% precision, 54/min frequenzy, 3 hits per shot, magazine 30
Very first hit on Doomreaper: 3x 166 dmg
But the areadamagerange is to low (Doombeamer, Moonstriker, Winding Argument) and the precision is also to low.
OLD No.7 BrAnD
14-08-14, 15:12
I don't know whether somebody already pointed out or not, but several PPU spells are/seem broken.
- Damage booster doesnt boost at all. Regardless of how many casts you but on a mob.
- Anti-Poison, etc. only works on selfcast. No effect when cast on another player.
- Heal Sanctum only affects the caster.
- Soulcluster behaviour seems even odder than before the patch, often just floating around or rising up in the sky or get randomly stuck on anything around like trees, walls and so on.
OK, i really dont know if you have EVER tested anything at all!
All the things you listed (except the soulcluster) do work as intended! I dont know how you test, maybe with closed eyes or you just refer to friends who said this and that, or whatever, but i recommend you to test it properly on your own before writing complete bullshit on the forum.
And just to set things right: We just have tested it on retail and it probably costed us less time than you needed for your entire post!
AoE:
We did deliberately lower blast damage. If you are hitting four or more mobs, can you try to see what total damage you are doing.
But you also decrease the radius of the aoe and now you can only hit 2-3 mobs in a cave if they are not one above the other. The Doombeamer and the Malediction aoe radius is very small
OK, i really dont know if you have EVER tested anything at all!
All the things you listed (except the soulcluster) do work as intended! I dont know how you test, maybe with closed eyes or you just refer to friends who said this and that, or whatever, but i recommend you to test it properly on your own before writing complete bullshit on the forum.
And just to set things right: We just have tested it on retail and it probably costed us less time than you needed for your entire post!
Umm yeah, I dont know if you tested any of these things N0.7 but he's right as far as the Damage boost goes. I have tested it and something is definitely wrong with it. You used to be able to stack it up to 5 times on a mob and see noticeable effects once the intial armor of the mob was broken. Now howerer, there is little to no difference after the DB has been cast.
But you also decrease the radius of the aoe and now you can only hit 2-3 mobs in a cave if they are not one above the other. The Doombeamer and the Malediction aoe radius is very small
Hmm.... I wasn't aware of that or if it was intended.
I did do some testing in regants with both the Doom Beamer, Holy Thunderstorm and Holy Lightning.
Unsure about the DB, but the HT is crazy powerful. I was hitting 5+ (often a lot more) mobs with almost the same damage as the HL. Probably cleared the place in the time it would take to drop three or four sluggers with a single shot weapon.
Also noticed something with the way sub-skills affect DoT, which may or may not be anything, needs more testing.
i did a lot of drone PvE in R#188, assault drones are bugged/slowed, but AoE drones in caves are a dream. punisher hits multiple targets (so does RK), exp is flowing in. like there was no patch. i have yet to check HC AoE, pistol (minirocket) AoE seemed adequate.
pottburter
14-08-14, 22:51
OK, i really dont know if you have EVER tested anything at all!
All the things you listed (except the soulcluster) do work as intended! I dont know how you test, maybe with closed eyes or you just refer to friends who said this and that, or whatever, but i recommend you to test it properly on your own before writing complete bullshit on the forum.
And just to set things right: We just have tested it on retail and it probably costed us less time than you needed for your entire post!
Well, its my own experience from playing PPU with Tank/Apu pal for the last couple of days.
I had ihm on the phone while playing and we did some testing, but surely weren't that pro like you on it.
To add to my original post: both PPU and DD had LE in.
So stacks were Mob dots, db was cast on Mobs.
i did a lot of drone PvE in R#188, assault drones are bugged/slowed, but AoE drones in caves are a dream. punisher hits multiple targets (so does RK), exp is flowing in. like there was no patch. i have yet to check HC AoE, pistol (minirocket) AoE seemed adequate.
Especially the starting drones, won't move at all. Believe it was the first two Lightweight Assault drones and the PL-1. The NUKE was the first drone to actually move for me...but some water took that thing out before I even BP'd it.
Oh and the first Scout Drone also, just messed with it to see if it was affected or not and it is.
Apocalypsox
15-08-14, 04:11
I have leveled a Melee tank completely from scratch to 85str, with constructed weapons of every type along the way. Knuckles, Knives, Swords, Bats, Laser swords. Only thing I haven't touched would be the shockers.
Very VERY little variation in weapons. Zero reason to use anything other than the highest TL weapon you can, as they are all the same frequency and do the same damage within a very narrow margin of difference.
After ~65str, damage seems to fall on its face compared to other classes. Prior to ~65, it seems reasonable but still questionably low considering the danger of being point blank at all times. Manageable but not necessarily enjoyable. Will continue leveling into rares as I get more time.
---------------------------
Can echo the drone sentiments, attempted to level a char from scratch with drones but it's very hard, as most of the low level drones will not even move. Seems you need 15-20 dex to acquire drones that work well enough to use.
Issue that came up in op fights:
Main problem spy: The new and finally working True sight sanctum. The rifle spy is back in the game with some really good dmg (AK and Dissy). The problem is, that the spy is the main target (with APU) and you cant stealth away, since the True sight tics now every second and the range is simply to great. One PPU fills a quarter of an op (jerico) with his true sight. That makes the spy pretty useless. Two ppu cover the whole fight. They dont even have to stay with the target and can support their guys. The best solution (in my opinion) would be to decrease the tic to every 3 or 5 seconds, so you have atleast time to get of sight. Another solution would be to decrease the range, so a ppu has to stay with the target (ca. 3-5 meter).
Great move with the Dissy btw! The dmg is great, you destroy the legs of your opponent with the first salve and with the lower frequency you really have to hit your target, which makes the rifle not so overpowered as it used to be.
Low tech guns seem to be on the lucky side in R#188, so i checked a TL 93 pain easer assault rifle vs a TL 103 desperado street rifle via damage log.
both guns are ammo modded and yield 150% damage on my capped spy skills. i shot a couple of warbots switching the rifles after each shot/burst. it appeared that the pain easer (damage stat perfect 114%) did bursts of 3 on a damage of 52 each (combined 156) while the desperado (damage stat artifact 120%) did 130 damage per shot. at least as long as the magazine lasts, the PE would use 3 times the ammo (compare to the street), but deal roughly 12% more damage - at a TL 10 lower than the rare street rifle.
since the PE does 112 shots/m while the desperado puts out 50 shots/m, it would take roughly 16 secs for the PE to empty a 30 round ammo mag. the desperado would take 18 secs to empty its 15 rounds mag, so both would reload after a comparable time span.
am i correct in assuming that the PE is clearly superior under R#188, beating a weapon 10 TL stronger by at least 10% (or more) damage per minute (damage over time)? does this effect apply to all burst weapons vs single shot guns of comparable TL?
Issue that came up in op fights:
Main problem spy: The new and finally working True sight sanctum. The rifle spy is back in the game with some really good dmg (AK and Dissy). The problem is, that the spy is the main target (with APU) and you cant stealth away, since the True sight tics now every second and the range is simply to great. One PPU fills a quarter of an op (jerico) with his true sight. That makes the spy pretty useless. Two ppu cover the whole fight. They dont even have to stay with the target and can support their guys. The best solution (in my opinion) would be to decrease the tic to every 3 or 5 seconds, so you have atleast time to get of sight. Another solution would be to decrease the range, so a ppu has to stay with the target (ca. 3-5 meter).
Great move with the Dissy btw! The dmg is great, you destroy the legs of your opponent with the first salve and with the lower frequency you really have to hit your target, which makes the rifle not so overpowered as it used to be.
bullshit, 3-5m... this is the same range like patch 185. the range in patch 188 ist lower than patch 185, but it works correctly! i mean the range info from the spell!
bullshit, 3-5m... this is the same range like patch 185. the range in patch 188 ist lower than patch 185, but it works correctly! i mean the range info from the spell!
He meant the range of the sphere is way too high and I agree with that and i'm playing ppu. Another thing is that the animation itself isn't that high or disappears completely, so you don't see when you enter the sphere, only when it's too late.
3-5 meter would be the decreased range of the whole sphere, not the radius from monk to one side (that was a suggestion, not how it is atm). And before you doubt me, how about you stop reading the spell info and start trying it out. The spell range from monk to one side of the sphere covers the whole length of the hackterm building (jerico). Meaning if your ppu stands before the the hackterm, you cover yos, hackterm building and the southern entrance. With 1 tic per second (true sight) the stealth tool is useless and the only advantage that allows a spy to survive a fight is gone.
OLD No.7 BrAnD
16-08-14, 14:09
And before you doubt me, how about you stop reading the spell info and start trying it out. With 1 tic per second (true sight) the stealth tool is useless and the only advantage that allows a spy to survive a fight is gone.
Before you doubt that he has never tested it on his own...he is one of the ppus who got you out of stealth every time!-I assume you're on Reckless too if Satan steps in for you.
Maybe you have to overthink your whole gameplay! A good Spy/Player was able to go "all in", kill his target and get out without suffering a lot of harm by himself. Maybe the AE-Weapons were the only real Option how to kill a good Spy, but since they are not viable atm you wouldn't be able to kill a good player without the working Truesight.
Now the Spy is a real Assassin/Sharpshooter, he has to decide wheter to go all in and eventually never get back into stealth again or stay out of Truesight and pick apart a target at range (with less damage).
So you really have to make a decission now, which is better than it was before. ,
I don't know if you have ever fighted against Peter's Pommesbude, if so you wouldn't say a word against it. The people crying about it are just mad because the can't roflstomp over their keyboards anymore, resetting every fight with their stealthtools as often as needed.
Before you doubt that he has never tested it on his own...he is one of the ppus who got you out of stealth every time!-I assume you're on Reckless too if Satan steps in for you.
Maybe you have to overthink your whole gameplay! A good Spy/Player was able to go "all in", kill his target and get out without suffering a lot of harm by himself. Maybe the AE-Weapons were the only real Option how to kill a good Spy, but since they are not viable atm you wouldn't be able to kill a good player without the working Truesight.
Now the Spy is a real Assassin/Sharpshooter, he has to decide wheter to go all in and eventually never get back into stealth again or stay out of Truesight and pick apart a target at range (with less damage).
So you really have to make a decission now, which is better than it was before. ,
I don't know if you have ever fighted against Peter's Pommesbude, if so you wouldn't say a word against it. The people crying about it are just mad because the can't roflstomp over their keyboards anymore, resetting every fight with their stealthtools as often as needed.
I fighted against peter's pommesbude very often, I know how annyoing it was against those spies :D And I hated it to have no working true sight sanctum. But on the other hand, the now working true sight with this mass range isn't realy balanced in my opinion. Yes, without the working AOE in PvP it's the most effective way to kill a spy nowadays. But at the same time we should assume the following: In a balanced way, the AOE should do damage in PvP and with working AOE the true sight is way to unbalanced as it is now. Either the tick or the range should be decreased.
Edit: and like I wrote, sometimes the animation isn't there for the sphere, so you don't know if there is true sight on, until you're "all in" and surprised.
@Brand
You speak of going "all in" with a spy. The moment you go up from the Ug you are in the fight. You are visible, cant stealth away, you are the main target and you have the least resis (besides apu). I cant attack from a distance, since there is none. Before the patch it was a fair fight. A spy was only as good as his ability to stealth and a tank (against spy) only as good as his winding.
@Brand
You speak of going "all in" with a spy. The moment you go up from the Ug you are in the fight. You are visible, cant stealth away, you are the main target and you have the least resis (besides apu). I cant attack from a distance, since there is none. Before the patch it was a fair fight. A spy was only as good as his ability to stealth and a tank (against spy) only as good as his winding.
enjoy the fight from other OP/GR what ever and not from the UG. use your mind to find other ways and not the QQ way.
EDIT: fail when you leave the UG at first
OLD No.7 BrAnD
16-08-14, 17:25
@Brand
You speak of going "all in" with a spy. The moment you go up from the Ug you are in the fight. You are visible, cant stealth away, you are the main target and you have the least resis (besides apu). I cant attack from a distance, since there is none. Before the patch it was a fair fight. A spy was only as good as his ability to stealth and a tank (against spy) only as good as his winding.
- Nobody ever said you have to come out of the UG. -Simply take another OP/GR and come from the outside. So you still can decide wheter to go "all in" or not.
- Before the patch fights weren't balanced since Spies were the dominant class in OP-fights. You simply had to bring them (e.g.: PPB/Infected). If you really wanna argue against that fact you simply tell us, that you haven't ever fought good clans/spies before this patch.
- Nowdays spies are very viable, they still can be very effective, but as most of the classes right now they're easy to learn and hard to master.
But i do understand that crying on forums is easier than mastering a class.
@Brand
You speak of going "all in" with a spy. The moment you go up from the Ug you are in the fight. You are visible, cant stealth away, you are the main target and you have the least resis (besides apu). I cant attack from a distance, since there is none. Before the patch it was a fair fight. A spy was only as good as his ability to stealth and a tank (against spy) only as good as his winding.
No brainer !!! GJ
Before the patch, I would simply barrel you down...
Maybe try to think about tactics first... use a diffrent GR or try to predict enemies movement so you can intercept them before they startet to camp the UG...
if you are not able to do something like this.. reroll a no-brainer class like tank and start talking shit like my tank needs stealth because i die when i come out of the ug... XD
I thought this thread was about the patch and not about flaming others?
Sure there are other ways to play the spy, but why should we now play against the given game mechanics, cause just a new patch appeared?
Don't use a spy, use a tank like everyone else :p This patch was all about bringing back tankocron wasn't it?
Nah, I will stick to my PPU and PE :) And at first, the patch wasn't bringing back tankocron but felt about it with the damage of the devourer. After reducing the damage, all classes are worth to play.
- Nobody ever said you have to come out of the UG. -Simply take another OP/GR and come from the outside. So you still can decide wheter to go "all in" or not.
- Before the patch fights weren't balanced since Spies were the dominant class in OP-fights. You simply had to bring them (e.g.: PPB/Infected). If you really wanna argue against that fact you simply tell us, that you haven't ever fought good clans/spies before this patch.
- Nowdays spies are very viable, they still can be very effective, but as most of the classes right now they're easy to learn and hard to master.
But i do understand that crying on forums is easier than mastering a class.
Tell me how the spy was the dominant class before the patch? Rifle spy didnt do any dmg and the tank was so overpowered that the pistol spy alone could not keep up with them.
And you have to excuse me for not fighting against infected, before the patch, since for the last 4 months the only op fighting clans alive were soad, 17th and AD.
But enough of that. I saw alteast two spies from infected in the last fight and i would very much like their opinion on the matter, since your true sight blocks them just as much.
@Hackebeil
The spy has one tactic and that is do major dmg, disappear and repeat that till your opponent is down.
"Use diffrent GR or try to predict enemies movement" :) I laughed so hard, when i read that. I can imagine it now, how you sit on the top of the OP and watch the movement of you enemy, since you used another gr to come to your op. You naturally have all the time in the world for it.
Tell me how the spy was the dominant class before the patch? Rifle spy didnt do any dmg and the tank was so overpowered that the pistol spy alone could not keep up with them.
And you have to excuse me for not fighting against infected, before the patch, since for the last 4 months the only op fighting clans alive were soad, 17th and AD.
But enough of that. I saw alteast two spies from infected in the last fight and i would very much like their opinion on the matter, since your true sight blocks them just as much.
@Hackebeil
The spy has one tactic and that is do major dmg, disappear and repeat that till your opponent is down.
"Use diffrent GR or try to predict enemies movement" :) I laughed so hard, when i read that. I can imagine it now, how you sit on the top of the OP and watch the movement of you enemy, since you used another gr to come to your op. You naturally have all the time in the world for it.
Exactly ! We do it, so we are one step ahead of you and you getting raped when you zone in and got no shields.
And a lot of other clans in the past did this aswell, they had spies following the enemy team for the intel...
Sorry if this is going beyond your brains capacity...
However... just continue to play and act like a noob...
But please stop writting bullshits facts when it is obvious that you have no idea how opfights work, how to play spy etc..
OLD No.7 BrAnD
16-08-14, 19:06
Tell me how the spy was the dominant class before the patch? Rifle spy didnt do any dmg and the tank was so overpowered that the pistol spy alone could not keep up with them.
OK, that will be my last reply, since you obviously have NO clue at all!!-Really none!
Spy was fucking OP, rifle and pistol, no matter what, you did a ton of dmg with ak/ceres hg and don't forget the ionics (switchswitch), you were able to reset every fight with your stealthtool, but i guess you're right, they had no chance vs a tank who fucked himself up even worse with AE-weapons when you got close range.....(btw, that was irony)
You're just crying because you can't semi-afk kill a tank any longer, you want to come out of an UG without getting seen, without getting dmg, you don't want ever to get pushed out of stealth and you wanna do a lot of dmg too. Sounds pretty OP to me!?
Take it as it is right now, it hasn't been much better for a long time! Spy is very viable right now, just accept that things have changed for the better and start to adjust!
You won't hear one of our spies crying since they prefer to adjust instead of spamming the forum with clueless whine-posts.
Exactly ! We do it, so we are one step ahead of you and you getting raped when you zone in and got no shields.
And a lot of other clans in the past did this aswell, they had spies following the enemy team for the intel...
Sorry if this is going beyond your brains capacity...
However... just continue to play and act like a noob...
But please stop writting bullshits facts when it is obvious that you have no idea how opfights work, how to play spy etc..
First of all, you win because you are the only clan atm who have 15 active player, where most other hope to have 10 on a weekend.
Second, intel and enemy movement have still nothing to do with a true sight sanctum that can cover a quarter of an op and ticks every second.
ticks every second.
all 3 sec, u talking bullshit...
OK, that will be my last reply, since you obviously have NO clue at all!!-Really none!
Spy was fucking OP, rifle and pistol, no matter what, you did a ton of dmg with ak/ceres hg and don't forget the ionics (switchswitch), you were able to reset every fight with your stealthtool, but i guess you're right, they had no chance vs a tank who fucked himself up even worse with AE-weapons when you got close range.....(btw, that was irony)
You're just crying because you can't semi-afk kill a tank any longer, you want to come out of an UG without getting seen, without getting dmg, you don't want ever to get pushed out of stealth and you wanna do a lot of dmg too. Sounds pretty OP to me!?
Take it as it is right now, it hasn't been much better for a long time! Spy is very viable right now, just accept that things have changed for the better and start to adjust!
You won't hear one of our spies crying since they prefer to adjust instead of spamming the forum with clueless whine-posts.
They reduced the dmg of the AK and DIssy 25% before the new patch. On a fully shielded tank the AK did "zero" dmg. And if you dont know that, than you were longer afk than you think. For months there wasnt a single rifle spy in an op fight. I know that, because i was in most of them.
Exactly ! We do it, so we are one step ahead of you and you getting raped when you zone in and got no shields.
And a lot of other clans in the past did this aswell, they had spies following the enemy team for the intel...
Sorry if this is going beyond your brains capacity...
However... just continue to play and act like a noob...
But please stop writting bullshits facts when it is obvious that you have no idea how opfights work, how to play spy etc..
I got a question about this: how do you know, when another clan is attacking your op? That means you have spies at every op, at every second, so that you can get the "movement" and intel of other clans? This is something, I can't belive and this has nothing to do with this thread.
Drachenpaladin
16-08-14, 22:08
I got a question about this: how do you know, when another clan is attacking your op? That means you have spies at every op, at every second, so that you can get the "movement" and intel of other clans? This is something, I can't belive and this has nothing to do with this thread.
If you are ingame you get a chat message. Outgame... not sure, THN and that other site got OP web monitoring online but i'm not sure if there are smart phone apps giving out alarms...
So wait a minute, who's all in which clans? We did a couple fights with mostly tanks and mostly spys and both seemed to work out ok for us.
MayhemMichael
17-08-14, 03:36
please double apu damage
please double apu damage
Double? How come you claim for double? :)
If you are ingame you get a chat message. Outgame... not sure, THN and that other site got OP web monitoring online but i'm not sure if there are smart phone apps giving out alarms...
Yeah, I know this. But he claimed, he knows it, before the clan is even inside the op and start hacking :D
Back to topic:
The sanctum tics every 3 seconds, dafuse is right with this, but I have noticed something yesterday.
Try to pull out your stealthtool and go into stealth, again and again inside the sanctum and you will notice it too and your spies noticed it yesterday, too. Everytime you try to go into stealth, you fall out in an instant, cause the time with pulling out stealth, wait till you can stealth and than go actually into stealth, is the same timing as the tick of the sanctum.
Now let's see what happens when you're not in so much inside the heat of the fight and you know how to play your spy: You time it so, that the tick comes and than you press stealth: first, you're visible a few seconds. Than you go into stealth, 1 - 2 seconds later you fall out (even when it ticks all 3 seconds, you got a reactiontime + animation) and you need to wait for the timing again. Outcome is the same. As Spy, you can't go into stealth again to run away. Even when you go "all in", you can't come out.
This only applies, when you're the target. And as a spy, you will alwaysbe the target, when you're spotted. And with 5 - 6 PPUs (enemies and friends) having true sight sanctum running in the whole op you have nowhere to hide.
I found another "bug" with weapons/spells. The Holy Frostration is only doing half of the damage as it should do.
Fire Apoc: 136 Damage per shot
Frostration: 54 + 13 (67) per shot
Here a screenshot:
http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/apocfrostratioez12hfsv4w.jpg
This is already known and the answer was that this spell will be fixed with phase two -> return of the freezers (?)
Double? How come you claim for double? :)
Cause I said so and my word is THE LAW.
I'll also bbe creating an APU when I get home tonight, nostalgia trip since Monkeys were my first character
Low tech guns seem to be on the lucky side in R#188, so i checked a TL 93 pain easer assault rifle vs a TL 103 desperado street rifle via damage log.
both guns are ammo modded and yield 150% damage on my capped spy skills. i shot a couple of warbots switching the rifles after each shot/burst. it appeared that the pain easer (damage stat perfect 114%) did bursts of 3 on a damage of 52 each (combined 156) while the desperado (damage stat artifact 120%) did 130 damage per shot. at least as long as the magazine lasts, the PE would use 3 times the ammo (compare to the street), but deal roughly 12% more damage - at a TL 10 lower than the rare street rifle.
since the PE does 112 shots/m while the desperado puts out 50 shots/m, it would take roughly 16 secs for the PE to empty a 30 round ammo mag. the desperado would take 18 secs to empty its 15 rounds mag, so both would reload after a comparable time span.
am i correct in assuming that the PE is clearly superior under R#188, beating a weapon 10 TL stronger by at least 10% (or more) damage per minute (damage over time)? does this effect apply to all burst weapons vs single shot guns of comparable TL?
The PE is from those numbers clearly inferior, doing only 52*112=5824 dmg per minute, while the Desperado does 50*130=6500.
Yes Torg. You have to be carful with the stats window. When having burst weapons the frequency shots/min is exactly what it says and not "burst/minute" or "click/minute".
So Alduin is right.
Are there some victims around to collect some data on Vedeena for me and put it into some tables? Would save me a lot of time!
If so, please get in contact with me.
Yes Torg. You have to be carful with the stats window. When having burst weapons the frequency shots/min is exactly what it says and not "burst/minute" or "click/minute".
So Alduin is right.
Indeed, this is why the numbers given earlier in the thread about the Ravager vs Creed actually show the latter is more powerful, since the Rav fires at 54 shots per min, not bursts. It's actual burst frequency is about 18 per min (compared with the Creed's 37), so while it's per-burst damage is higher, it's DPM is lower.
MayhemMichael
21-08-14, 01:00
Double? How come you claim for double? :)
Have you ever played the game?
Have you ever played the game?
Have you ever played an APU since the last patch? Sounds like you played the APU two times and conclude that the APU does less damage as other classes.
As APU you need a very good movement to compete against other players. A rifle spy can't get the same resists as a tank. So in a one on one you have good chances to win the fight. A fight vs a tank is not so easy. So you need to know your advantages and disadvantages. On range its very diffficult for a tank to get the reticle close as fast as possible. In closed combat the tank has to move his mouse as fast as possible to hold you in his aim. So if you are moving in his player model its realy hard for a tank to aim in third person. On mid range the tank has it quite easy to aim you.
I'm against to double the damage of the APU's because it will return monk'o'cron. The damage could be a increased little bit but not too much. The DPM of a Fire Apoc is a little bit higher as the DPM of the CS at the moment. So the damage is in line with the TL and confirm the patch notes that the APU spells do 15% (?) more damage as the cannons. So we need some fine tuning.
Another thing is that the PSI consumption of the Anti Buffs is too low. An APU can cast 3 Anti Buffs in one minute while using one PSI booster. In the OP fights the APU's are spamming the antis too often. The frequency is also too fast and should be increased a little bit. If you have two APU's in one team they can cast 6 Antis in 15 seconds and a PPU or a damage dealer has no chance to get shields and die really fast.
MayhemMichael
21-08-14, 19:23
I have literally played an apu for 10 years. Right now, Apu has zero chance of defeating any other class. I have a felling balancing gms are just too scared to make them viable again because of whiners of monk o cron days so they just leave it unplayable. Apu should have highest damage in the game and be easiest to kill. Right now they have about the lowest damage in game and easiest to kill
MayhemMichael
21-08-14, 19:25
And don't give me dpm bs reply because the high freq just gives you wavy hands anyway
In other news, we think we have sorted out the DoT issue.
We spent a bit of time going in circles looking at what looked at first glace to be very odd data.
In the end we did a very detailed weapons test and discovered that (afawk) DoT damage was simply double what it should be.
For internal reasons however, this will require a hardcode change to fix, which will take longer to implement.
We may be able to release a temporary fix sooner, but that depends on further internal discussion/testing.
I would personally like to point out that the weapons concerned tend to be those which are modded for poison damage. Even if we fix the base problems, certain classes are going to be more vulnerable than others (48% of intended Wargas Flamer damage is poison for example).
Until we reach the armour balancing stage, where we can discuss whether any class should or should not have a specific damage weakness (and levels of protection other classes have available), said weapons are going to be 'overpowered'.
Any word or ETA on the drones being too damn fat to even move? I thought it was just the below TL 17 ones, but I tried the Dex 28 or 25 Fusion cannon sort and it was bugged also. I'll be making the TL37 drones tonight and I sure as hell hope those aren't bugged or I'm gonna be pissed.
And was something going on last night? I had MASS I'VE Synchronizing issues that made doing the GEN REP trip and droning a pita.
I have a felling balancing gms are just too scared to make them viable again because of whiners of monk o cron days so they just leave it unplayable.
qft of the decade right there.
APU damage is too low at this point in time, or their frequency is too low. Regardless of either of those facts, their casting issues need to be fixed. Click and hold should work just like any other weapon in the game.
We'll have a more general update for everyone as soon as possible. This will cover what the current focus is and a time frame for the next patch.
I have literally played an apu for 10 years. Right now, Apu has zero chance of defeating any other class. I have a felling balancing gms are just too scared to make them viable again because of whiners of monk o cron days so they just leave it unplayable. Apu should have highest damage in the game and be easiest to kill. Right now they have about the lowest damage in game and easiest to kill
this. If any class gets the jump on you, you are extremely likely to die and within seconds. Its just such a hassle to play the class as the malus of dying is such a chore.
In other news, we think we have sorted out the DoT issue.
We spent a bit of time going in circles looking at what looked at first glace to be very odd data.
In the end we did a very detailed weapons test and discovered that (afawk) DoT damage was simply double what it should be.
For internal reasons however, this will require a hardcode change to fix, which will take longer to implement.
We may be able to release a temporary fix sooner, but that depends on further internal discussion/testing.
I would personally like to point out that the weapons concerned tend to be those which are modded for poison damage. Even if we fix the base problems, certain classes are going to be more vulnerable than others (48% of intended Wargas Flamer damage is poison for example).
Until we reach the armour balancing stage, where we can discuss whether any class should or should not have a specific damage weakness (and levels of protection other classes have available), said weapons are going to be 'overpowered'.
Gives APU's DoT back while you're at it. :)
i started playing in late 02, and i'm not strongly convinced Neocron really needs APUs, other than for leveling up PPUs. we should think up a more technical combat support class instead. at least to my opinion.
i started playing in late 02, and i'm not strongly convinced Neocron really needs APUs, other than for leveling up PPUs. we should think up a more technical combat support class instead. at least to my opinion.
I'm not strongly convinced I value your opinion on that matter.
Back in the day, hybrids were a extremely fun farming / solo-PvE class. Unfortunately, when pushed to the limits, also very overpowered in 1on1. Instead of removing the class that was castrated and crippled time after time, maybe attempt to reimplement skill versatility (not just for monks) into the balance. Neocron used to be special in that your chars could combine various traits with individual strengths and weaknesses. It's gotten a lot duller since - not just because people optimized the skill builds, but also due to the past failures in balancing changes.
From what I've read, I like to believe that the NST has the right ideas about balancing, but I remain sceptical if the few DEV/QA hours available for its implementation will suffice to avoid another history repeated.
From what I've read, I like to believe that the NST has the right ideas about balancing, but I remain sceptical if the few DEV/QA hours available for its implementation will suffice to avoid another history repeated.
I like to believe that, too ;) In the end only the final patch applied to Titan will reveal whether our ideas were right or not.
As we have just seen with the R186 patch series your doubts on whether we have enough manpower available to do especially the QA are very well justified. In that regard we heavily rely on the community to help us in testing and giving us detailed feedback. Having enough manpower available on the DEV side of things is also somewhat a problem. Once there are not enough people working on the task of balancing you might miss out important options, ideas or the likes.
Filling these empty spots on the teams with people is however very complicated. You need people who get that balancing is not all about "my APU now does less damage per shot than before, it is broken, fix it". One has to see the bigger picture, all the interdependencies and come up with new setups, new ways to play. Ideally those people need to be able to code to write tools themselves. They need to be able to dig through knee deep shit to investigate problems.
Another severe problem is: we cannot design everything from scratch, we have a framework which we need to fit our balancing into. Therefore we have constraints, quite a lot of constraints.
We'll have a more general update for everyone as soon as possible. This will cover what the current focus is and a time frame for the next patch.
You can find the discussion of this announcement here (http://forum.neocron-game.com/showthread.php?155774-R-186-7-8-Post-Launch-Update&p=2228319#post2228319).
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