View Full Version : A week or so of observations
The thing that prompted me to try neocron again was because I kept getting deluged with emails about Anarchy Online's 13th anniversary. I started first the beta of this & one weekend the server was down & the forums were talking about AO, so I gave it a shot. But NC clicked more with me so I stayed here.
First thing I noticed is this everquest for balance. That same old song has been going on since the game began.
I'd say forget about it. After 13yrs there are just going to be some classes/breeds/weps/etc that are better than others and thats just the way it is. It's not gonna make everyone play one class, people are still gonna play characters they like.
From a business standpoint you can't please everyone, so if one class is perceived to be stronger others will complain so then you nerf the stronger & increase the weaker and then a whole bunch of different players will complain. Let if go already.
Due diligence on the obvious things. For example, i did the quad quest & whilst tagging genreps I forgot there are fire mobs near TG. Dead in like 15 seconds. In real time that was 4 hours ago, do you know that that friggin quad is still not back in the garage? thats a 13yr old problem. After 1hr in game it should despawn. Why make it a chore & not a pleasure.
Another obvious thing. A tank had the intel of a lobotomite, starts off with 10 weapon lore. With a nicely made & modded noob grenade launcher I can go to one of those spots & in 2hrs have 35str, all with that 10wep lore reticle closing in all zippity doo dah. I know it cause I did it
I made a variety of other characters. One of them a spy droner. I start him off with 50 remote control and 40 will power. I literally have to get right up a sewer rats butt and the reticle closes slower that molasses in winter. Common sense would lead you to think starting off with the higher skills would yield faster results.
Thats not a balancing issue, it's a common sense issue.
And I understand the machinations that go into changing things. I was so involved with NC that i eventually migrated to the inside side. Although everyone i knew best, danae, nidd, snow, and a guy with an F, forseti ? they all seem to be gone now
I have 3 premium accounts on AO & I renewed them all. Then I reinstalled NC and I haven't gone back to AO because I like NC, but thats money i would have gladly paid to NC.
Welcome back.
If you want to support NC, there are two major ways of doing so:
1. Create bug reports (http://forum.neocron-game.com/forumdisplay.php?233-Bug-Reports) / issues in the development section (http://forum.neocron-game.com/forumdisplay.php?231-Neocron-Testing-amp-Development) of this forum. Providing feedback in the aggregate form of a post such as this one, is valuable - but creating actionable items for individual bugs / problems, makes it easier for the dev team to address them and keep track.
2. Donate some money
There is a well hidden donation page on the project website (why make it easy, eh?): http://www.neocron-game.com/help-neocron-donate
Welcome back.
If you want to support NC, there are two major ways of doing so:
1. Create bug reports (http://forum.neocron-game.com/forumdisplay.php?233-Bug-Reports) / issues in the development section (http://forum.neocron-game.com/forumdisplay.php?231-Neocron-Testing-amp-Development) of this forum. Providing feedback in the aggregate form of a post such as this one, is valuable - but creating actionable items for individual bugs / problems, makes it easier for the dev team to address them and keep track.
2. Donate some money
There is a well hidden donation page on the project website (why make it easy, eh?): http://www.neocron-game.com/help-neocron-donate
3. If you think you have what it takes to help in the development of Neocron, apply: http://forum.neocron-game.com/showthread.php?152177-Team-Expansion-amp-Application-Process
As for the quad/vehicle issue: it is mostly a technical issue why despawning takes so long, hard to work around it currently.
hudsonbeck
30-07-14, 14:32
The thing that prompted me to try neocron again was because I kept getting deluged with emails about Anarchy Online's 13th anniversary. I started first the beta of this & one weekend the server was down & the forums were talking about AO, so I gave it a shot. But NC clicked more with me so I stayed here.
First thing I noticed is this everquest for balance. That same old song has been going on since the game began.
I'd say forget about it. After 13yrs there are just going to be some classes/breeds/weps/etc that are better than others and thats just the way it is. It's not gonna make everyone play one class, people are still gonna play characters they like.
From a business standpoint you can't please everyone, so if one class is perceived to be stronger others will complain so then you nerf the stronger & increase the weaker and then a whole bunch of different players will complain. Let if go already.
Due diligence on the obvious things. For example, i did the quad quest & whilst tagging genreps I forgot there are fire mobs near TG. Dead in like 15 seconds. In real time that was 4 hours ago, do you know that that friggin quad is still not back in the garage? thats a 13yr old problem. After 1hr in game it should despawn. Why make it a chore & not a pleasure.
Another obvious thing. A tank had the intel of a lobotomite, starts off with 10 weapon lore. With a nicely made & modded noob grenade launcher I can go to one of those spots & in 2hrs have 35str, all with that 10wep lore reticle closing in all zippity doo dah. I know it cause I did it
I made a variety of other characters. One of them a spy droner. I start him off with 50 remote control and 40 will power. I literally have to get right up a sewer rats butt and the reticle closes slower that molasses in winter. Common sense would lead you to think starting off with the higher skills would yield faster results.
Thats not a balancing issue, it's a common sense issue.
And I understand the machinations that go into changing things. I was so involved with NC that i eventually migrated to the inside side. Although everyone i knew best, danae, nidd, snow, and a guy with an F, forseti ? they all seem to be gone now
I have 3 premium accounts on AO & I renewed them all. Then I reinstalled NC and I haven't gone back to AO because I like NC, but thats money i would have gladly paid to NC.
Welcome back Heywood. I agree 100% with everything you wrote.
Welcome back.
If you want to support NC, there are two major ways of doing so:
1. Create bug reports (http://forum.neocron-game.com/forumdisplay.php?233-Bug-Reports) / issues in the development section (http://forum.neocron-game.com/forumdisplay.php?231-Neocron-Testing-amp-Development) of this forum. Providing feedback in the aggregate form of a post such as this one, is valuable - but creating actionable items for individual bugs / problems, makes it easier for the dev team to address them and keep track.
2. Donate some money
There is a well hidden donation page on the project website (why make it easy, eh?): http://www.neocron-game.com/help-neocron-donate
Thanks for bringing that to light because I had no idea how to do so (although the 13yr old bug of vehicles remaining spawned is not exactly new)
I asked in game on the help channel yesterday for something related and no one knew what to do.
As for the donation page, that should be front & center as everyone knows the game is run by volunteers.
What I'll do is login now & if my quad is still spawned in the wastes i'll give it a bit longer, but if my quad is garaged I'll donate the same amt I spent on those 3 AO sub renewals
Welcome back.
If you want to support NC, there are two major ways of doing so:
1. Create bug reports (http://forum.neocron-game.com/forumdisplay.php?233-Bug-Reports) / issues in the development section (http://forum.neocron-game.com/forumdisplay.php?231-Neocron-Testing-amp-Development) of this forum. Providing feedback in the aggregate form of a post such as this one, is valuable - but creating actionable items for individual bugs / problems, makes it easier for the dev team to address them and keep track.
2. Donate some money
There is a well hidden donation page on the project website (why make it easy, eh?): http://www.neocron-game.com/help-neocron-donate
Thanks for bringing that to light. I had no idea the methodology in place now to report such things (though a 13yr old vehicle despawn bug is not exactly new).
I'd asked yesterday in the help channel about something similar but different and no one knew the right thing to tell me.
As for the donation page, it should be front & center.
This is what I'll do. I'm gonna login & if my quad is still spawned in the wastes near 24hrs later I'll be patient & see what happens over the next few days. If it has despawned and I can ride it I will and I'll donate the amt I spent on 1 AO renewal. If you fix it in the next month where it despawns within 4 in game hours I'll donate the equivalent of those 2 remaining AO subscription renewals.
3. If you think you have what it takes to help in the development of Neocron, apply: http://forum.neocron-game.com/showthread.php?152177-Team-Expansion-amp-Application-Process
As for the quad/vehicle issue: it is mostly a technical issue why despawning takes so long, hard to work around it currently.
12/13yrs ago I was a younger man with more time on my hands but I wouldn't rule out giving it a shot.
If someone official wants to pm me to verify who I was thats fine with me. Just so you'll know I'm not just blowing smoke
Thats odd, after this post suddenly my posts are to be reviewed by a moderator before appearing
Looks like our anti-spam measures are having a closer look at a few posts today. Anyway I've approved your post. ;)
Your stuck vehicle, yes it's an old issue. There is a work-around (Although I admit it's not a very good one).
You can find out where it is by going to a Citycom, then clicking Runner -> My Runner -> Ownership. There you will find a list of your vehicles. Click on the vehicle you have lost and it should tell you where it is. It may be back at the ASG garage or it may still stuck in the wastelands
Now some zones are visited frequently by runners (For example J01) and vehicles will de-spawn in a reasonable amount of time.
However some zones (For example K01) are infrequently visited and are not loaded by the servers until needed. As result of the zone not being loaded by the servers, no vehicles get despawned until a runner visits the zone again. So to get your vehicle back if it is stuck in a quiet zone is to visit that zone for about 10-20 minutes.
Regarding the OP, if APU's were to be left the way they are on currently Titan, I'd never consider playing this game again.
Regarding the OP, if APU's were to be left the way they are on currently Titan, I'd never consider playing this game again.
I don't have a monk of any sort yet so I don't know if that means you feel they are over powered or under powered.
But think about these guys, the volunteers and even before. 13yrs of constantly getting jerked around with beefing about one wep is over powered, 1 class is underpowered, the tail has been wagging the dog too long.
From what I remember for all the bending over backwards they do they get little to no thanks. Thats why i say let it go, dump all this balancing stuff. Because the they guy who likes to play an res/const/imp/recycle/salvager who's weapon is a pinfire nail gun is gonna beef "Why don't i p0nz0riz3 in pvp too ????" what then, bend to that whim too?
Anyone who was 18 when the game cane out is def in their 30's now, suck it up & move on. Some classes & weps are just gonna be better. Give these guys a rest already
The thing that prompted me to try neocron again was because I kept getting deluged with emails about Anarchy Online's 13th anniversary. I started first the beta of this & one weekend the server was down & the forums were talking about AO, so I gave it a shot. But NC clicked more with me so I stayed here.
First thing I noticed is this everquest for balance. That same old song has been going on since the game began.
I'd say forget about it. After 13yrs there are just going to be some classes/breeds/weps/etc that are better than others and thats just the way it is. It's not gonna make everyone play one class, people are still gonna play characters they like.
From a business standpoint you can't please everyone, so if one class is perceived to be stronger others will complain so then you nerf the stronger & increase the weaker and then a whole bunch of different players will complain. Let if go already.
Due diligence on the obvious things. For example, i did the quad quest & whilst tagging genreps I forgot there are fire mobs near TG. Dead in like 15 seconds. In real time that was 4 hours ago, do you know that that friggin quad is still not back in the garage? thats a 13yr old problem. After 1hr in game it should despawn. Why make it a chore & not a pleasure.
Another obvious thing. A tank had the intel of a lobotomite, starts off with 10 weapon lore. With a nicely made & modded noob grenade launcher I can go to one of those spots & in 2hrs have 35str, all with that 10wep lore reticle closing in all zippity doo dah. I know it cause I did it
I made a variety of other characters. One of them a spy droner. I start him off with 50 remote control and 40 will power. I literally have to get right up a sewer rats butt and the reticle closes slower that molasses in winter. Common sense would lead you to think starting off with the higher skills would yield faster results.
Thats not a balancing issue, it's a common sense issue.
And I understand the machinations that go into changing things. I was so involved with NC that i eventually migrated to the inside side. Although everyone i knew best, danae, nidd, snow, and a guy with an F, forseti ? they all seem to be gone now
I have 3 premium accounts on AO & I renewed them all. Then I reinstalled NC and I haven't gone back to AO because I like NC, but thats money i would have gladly paid to NC.
I do also agree with that.
/snip
Ok you clearly do not have any kind of clue of how bad the balancing is currently.
APU's are useless, melee is useless, PE's are pretty damn bad (although not nearly as bad as APU/Melee).
Theres VERY few weapons used in PvP atm.
BHG with Ionic Pistol the the most used for spies (and the only thing used for PC spies).
Dissy gets used a little aswell (as the only rifle).
Tanks have it a bit better.. They have a woopin' 3 weapons that are used.. CS, Dev and Ionic Cannon.
So yeah, the balancing is very fucking needed. And is the only thing that gives NC any kinds of hope for a future.
Ok well I logged onto the balancing server. I assumed there is a way, like the click of a button that maxes all your class's stats so then you can try out various setups.
I found how to get lots of money & buy stuff i might need, where do i max my stats ?
Re: the balancing thing. I feel that the constant jerking around is what might be detrimental to the game, the whole "balancing" song has been sun since the games debut. Leave it as it is & after another 10yrs of bickering it'll still be the same. Dump it & it might open a whole new set of people to the game
Drachenpaladin
31-07-14, 01:35
Use the altar that brings you to Ceres Temple. There is a NPC Tank in Camo PA to the left of the entrance. Talk to him, he spawns a rat, kill that rat, receive a metric shit-ton of XP. Rinse, repeat.
Is there an auto poker there that i missed as well ?
Drachenpaladin
31-07-14, 13:28
Is there an auto poker there that i missed as well ?
... no.
Ok you clearly do not have any kind of clue of how bad the balancing is currently.
APU's are useless, melee is useless, PE's are pretty damn bad (although not nearly as bad as APU/Melee).
Theres VERY few weapons used in PvP atm.
BHG with Ionic Pistol the the most used for spies (and the only thing used for PC spies).
Dissy gets used a little aswell (as the only rifle).
Tanks have it a bit better.. They have a woopin' 3 weapons that are used.. CS, Dev and Ionic Cannon.
So yeah, the balancing is very fucking needed. And is the only thing that gives NC any kinds of hope for a future.
Ok, so to relate some personal memories, I remember when everyone beefed apu's were over powered, than under powered, then hybrids where the new ones to hate, melee was badass & THE only thing to use that'd kill a monk.
And in the intervening years that I've been away I bet all of that has flip flopped a dozen times over.
It's too much micromanaging of the classes, so I say dump it, also remove all restrictions. If some glutton for punishment wants to make a psi monk tank let him.
Every once in a while you gotta sick your finger in the pot & stir things up
And no auto poker machine? How does something like that get overlooked. So I'd have to either auto poke, but using those pts won't allow me to test my setup right or dual log make an exclusive poker just to poke my others ?
Ok, so to relate some personal memories, I remember when everyone beefed apu's were over powered, than under powered, then hybrids where the new ones to hate, melee was badass & THE only thing to use that'd kill a monk.
And in the intervening years that I've been away I bet all of that has flip flopped a dozen times over.
It's too much micromanaging of the classes, so I say dump it, also remove all restrictions. If some glutton for punishment wants to make a psi monk tank let him.
Every once in a while you gotta sick your finger in the pot & stir things up
And no auto poker machine? How does something like that get overlooked. So I'd have to either auto poke, but using those pts won't allow me to test my setup right or dual log make an exclusive poker just to poke my others ?
Dev's should remove implant subskill requirement for the test server.
Drachenpaladin
31-07-14, 18:17
Its not been overlooked, we asked for this since the start... they just keep saying its not possible or something.
Heywood, I think you're missing a little bit of crucial information here that changes the situation a lot.
Most of the players currently around are in this for the PVP and play the PVP in Neocron because that is exactly what they want. Neglecting to further continue development on this topic will result in disappointment all across :) The current voluntary developers are closer than ever to bringing a good balanced state, this is due to their programming work done to allow for a much better and easy way to adjust stuff.
The current state of Neocron allows for a lot of on the fly adjusting, something that was never possible in the past due to poor and quick programming done. The volunteer guys will confirm this :)
I think the voluntary guys are well on their way and should absolutely continue on their current path, which WILL lead to success :)
I personally am someone who doesn't PvP, nor play currently, but I follow Neocron, always, and know that this is on the right path. Also I am someone with the highest respect to the voluntary guys and much appreciate their countless efforts to build a better Neocron.
It is their passion and they love (mostly I presume :)) spending their time on this product!
I agree & disagree Silent.
You mentioned that you weren't in it for the pvp, and I think that's true in a broader sense for this game and most games across the board.
The devs that I had become friends with had told me that even they themselves were not big on pvp but it was an aspect of the game that they hoped would set it aside from others out there.
At the time there were not a lot. AO only had it's notum wars where it was a free for all only within a notum fields suppression area & at it's ripe time.
I recall in SWG there was this arrangement to come to a duel, you aimed & pressed your fire button & it was your setup that determined who won.
I can't recall the systems for Endless Ages or Project Entropia (though like neocron that still exists).
People wonder why someone would play second life (is it still around) or the sims and it's for that escapism. Some like old timey middle ages bows & arrows stuff, some like glossy future & some like their future with a little filth on it. But it's not pvp'ers that make up the majority of this or any game. If that were true all the hardcore players & griefers would flock to it & it's be swimming in loot. Since that's not the case there must be only a handful of them.
I was in a big clan, huge, NAT (New Age Tangerines) which morphed to New Dawn. There were times when we owned every op on the map, and this was at a time when there actually were a lot of people on who could fight back against us. Though we all loved op fights & pvp, that wasn't the primary reason we played. A clan with upwards of 100 members all with multiple paid accounts. That was good cash for KK back then.
So now at at 11pm est last night it says the server is at 2%. Well there's more then 2 of us on so it can't be 100, 2% of 1000, 20 people, I'd believe that.
The 5-10 people bouncing around like jackrabbits in PP1 zoning in & out and essentially just shooting each other and getting healed over 15 min till they get tired don't & should not dictate the course of a game.
I really appreciate the time & effort that the volunteers put in for this game. If they are those 5-10 hardcore pvp'ers bravo to you. But If they ever want to seriously remount a comeback for the game some radical changes need to be made
Drachenpaladin
02-08-14, 21:47
The 5-10 people bouncing around like jackrabbits in PP1 zoning in & out and essentially just shooting each other and getting healed over 15 min till they get tired don't & should not dictate the course of a game.
I really appreciate the time & effort that the volunteers put in for this game. If they are those 5-10 hardcore pvp'ers bravo to you. But If they ever want to seriously remount a comeback for the game some radical changes need to be made
No, but those 5-10 cry the loudest, so they are the first to get their pacifier...
Dr Strange
03-08-14, 20:20
(without quoting since it'd be a large quote)
A lot of these things are staple things in NC. While some quality of life tweaks, such as respawning unused vehicles after an hour or so would be nice, it's not entirely necessary.
As for a tank aoe leveling and a droner leveling, well they tend to balance themselves I think. Even with lots of resists, and a health pool to back it up, a tank has a hard time taking on groups of enemies, especially ones that often do dot damage which stacks. Yet they can aoe from certain areas and angles to offset that. The work around for that is kind of how a typical group setup would work, you'd need a dedicated ppu to pocket heal the tank while he does the dps'ing, but with a small (yet dedicated) population putting together this tradition healer/dps dynamic is not quite easy. Especially if you don't have a group to play with or you are playing during non-EU prime time (such as for us North Americans).
As for the droner it also tends to balance itself out. While you may have accuracy and targeting issues to begin, as soon as you can get a RK drone you can level a lot faster than waiting on a single target attack to home in the reticle. Some may think rigging is imbalanced because its very fast to level, and easily lom'd over to another spec, but riggers still don't have a large health pool or large amount of resists on their actual person. Much like getting caught with your pants down you still need to play with some form of caution with a class that, literally leaves their body standing still somewhere.
I do hope we get some quality of life changes, but at the same time I don't want things to be too easy.
it's funny how you ed off with the vehicle thing.
After the first time My quad garaged after 24hrs. So I went out and was tagging genreps from west to east. Not remembering if there was a genrep at escador oasis I headed there. There's probably a total of about 7 buildings there (not counting the ones across the water by the city admin camp)
Escador was loaded with Scary Terror Maulers. I was not at a level where I could solo them so i parked at the furthest bldg & went to see if there was a genrep, I got burned & died
5 days
5
whole
days
I waited. No quad in the garage. So last night I run from el farid to there and there are a few terror maulers there, this time i can solo them BUT I was the first mook in that sector in 5 days, so i reset it. By the time I killed the mauler closest to the quad it had re-garaged itself.
Now every night at neocron midnight (00:00) if you are in the middle of killing something or whatever it disappears a moment & then reappears. Why aren't zones times to reset at 00:00, thereby making whatever derelict vehicles are out there garage themselves. I'd love an extremely detailed explanation because on my own I'd then delve into the problem and speak to devs I know (not nc ones) and find a solution to a 13yr old prob
On a better note there were a few times this weekend when i was at MB bunker and it was pandemonium. 6-10 people of all classes teamed, running around killing everything there was, sometimes so fast we'd have a min to wait till stuff started respawning. It felt like the old days & it was good
Hello heywood,
Alduin mentioned it already:
[...]
As for the quad/vehicle issue: it is mostly a technical issue why despawning takes so long, hard to work around it currently.
The worldsector needs to be online to get your vehicle despawned this is unfortunately a part of the worldservers fundamental architecture and can't be fixed in a short term . A worldsector becomes "offline" within ~30 sec if there is no player active.
You can try this:
A) Enter the sector and keep the worldserver online. You don't have to be near to your vehicle its okay to stay on the corner of a sector to avoid contact with some mobs.
or
B) Contact a GM via ticket system. A GM can't reset your vehicle by clicking on a button he / she needs to do the same like i mention it at point A
Hello heywood,
The worldsector needs to be online to get your vehicle despawned this is unfortunately a part of the worldservers fundamental architecture and can't be fixed in a short term . A worldsector becomes "offline" within ~30 sec if there is no player active.
I understand fixing the fundamental problem will take longer, but couldn't you build a function, or script if it could be that simple, that loads each unused sector for the time period necessary to despawn vehicles on a rotating basis? Once per hour for each zone, if that doesn't create too much demand. If it does, find the right mark and let it do its thing until the root of the problem is fixed.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.