View Full Version : Death penalty needs a major overhaul for now
In the old days dying was a pain but it wasn't as hellish as it is now, there was always a poker, a clan repairer or trusted server repairer / clan of traders to use, plenty of people to grind with for leveling or making money. Now... pokers are hard to come by, repairs worse, grinding to level is HELL, it was always bad but now the small number of level zones that work (so basically regents) are camped by gankers most of the time and unusable without a ppu anyway so again the low pop means you often can't do anything.
All this combines to make death WAY more annoying than it should be, you can die then not be able to play for days while waiting for a repairer or poker to appear, the only solution people have found is 2 accounts so they can have a ppu ready to rezz at all times but even that requires you to grind AGAIN which was always the worst part of the game and now is just at hellish hellish levels.
I'd suggest either making it so you don't lose implants and nothing breaking OR make machines we can use to do it ourselves for money. I know the traders will complain but honestly I'm getting so tired of 1 death meaning I need to just log off then check back every few days, most of the time which means I wont play for weeks or months as you not only need to hope you find traders you can trust you need to find people to fight which is very hard to do, especially ones that don't just ppu buff themselves with the ppu they use to rezz themselves.
Moved to brainport.
What sort of fees would you consider a suitable balance, between the convenience of auto-tradeskill machines and keeping player traderskillers in business?
For me, convenience should be expensive.
Usual personal opinion disclaimer...
Something I've been mulling over recently is death and implants.
Repairs are usually something you can plan around to some degree. Once you've lost a reasonable amount of condition you might think "I'll get this repaired while I can". That is part of the RPG experience, managing your character and their gear. It's one of the many tactical requirements/decisions which separates us from an FPS.
Implants however are the other end of the spectrum and can screw you over far more randomly. Like you say above your fate is to a degree left wide open to the whims of the poking trade. Although, I can never remember a time a clan couldn't summon a TL115 poker out of the air within 5 minutes. That said "just log an alt" should never be the only answer - but it can and should be an answer - to a problem.
One angle I was thinking about was the potential removal of implant pop on death but trading that off with increased implant damage upon death. This would then bring pokers into the same sort of business volume as a repairer. There would still be a downside to death (which there must be in some fashion, this is an MMORPG) but it would take a lot of the wildcard aspect out of the equation.
Instead of storming around Plaza 1 on your knees hoping for a poke, or having someone log an alt for those tricky TL115s, you would just need to manage your implants the same way you manage your current kit. Repairing them during your down time as a precaution once they reach a certain condition. Like many people do with weapons and armour, you would then probably pick up a spare set of implants too, to swap out if you cannot find a repairer.
This would also create a bit more of an item sink which the games needs in some areas. More chips taking more damage would mean more chips (and credits for replacements) exiting existence.
Just a thought. Welcome feedback, comments and alternative suggestions in that area.
excuse me, but why dont you just use the workaround for low summer population, just as some other people do? which is raise an imp+rep spy, and dual-log him or her in your fac HQ or at the medi? or, like i did, keep asking nicely until someone logs whatever trade profession you require, thanking and tipping after getting what you needed? and if you dont like regants (like me), why do you go there? other hi-level caves may be more efficient for you. and if you hate grinding as much as i do, why dont you just make sure you get the variety you crave?
The fix is simple; multiple accounts.
I don't know how people play without at least two accounts, to be honest.
2 Accounts isn't really an option as I thought it was meant to be frowned on, and even then it requires grinding to cap again. I actually tried to level a spy so I could have something other than a tank but I got way to bored as while you can repair a tank to start off you eventually need regents which means hoping theres a team there and that gankers don't come along which made me stop as I kept standing around with nothing to do (and its hell to get down there for nothing).
Grinding is another thing that has been made hellish now theres not enough people solo grinding takes WAY to long and relying on groups doesn't work as it takes to long to find one.
As for a good inbetween, well normally I tip 1,000 for a small poke and 20,000 for a mc5 so perhaps make it double that? or maybe based on tech level . Repairing is something you can work around more but even then I've been struggling to find one as I normally use a clan repairer and in the old days there were trusted server traders everybody would use, with them gone I'm struggling to find people I trust to repair my MC5s which would make my build completely useless if it got stolen. I like the idea of repairing implants in general as it IS easier to work around that, but it still relies on me finding a repair I can trust or people from my clan logging on when I do (It seems everybody who plays NC is american these days so I need to log on at 5am to find anybody =( )
.... as I thought it was meant to be frowned on, and even then it requires grinding to cap again. I actually tried to level a spy so I could have something other than a tank but I got way to bored as while you can repair a tank to start off you eventually need regents which means hoping theres a team there and that gankers don't come along which made me stop as I kept standing around with nothing to do (and its hell to get down there for nothing). Grinding is another thing that has been made hellish now theres not enough people solo grinding takes WAY to long and relying on groups doesn't work as it takes to long to find one. .... and in the old days there were trusted server traders everybody would use, with them gone I'm struggling to find people I trust to repair my MC5s which would make my build completely useless if it got stolen. I like the idea of repairing implants in general as it IS easier to work around that, but it still relies on me finding a repair I can trust or people from my clan logging on when I do.... i'm sorry mate, but it appears to me that nobody will be able to help you. its useless. i mean, life in general. endless humiliation. somebody ought to do something about out, but, well, we both know this is never going to happen.
In the meantime i'm having more fun than words can tell, playing all kinds of roles in this game of nearly endless opportunities. Yesterday i jumped into the indentity of a freedom fighter down in the canyons. First i made me a better rifle, from junk parts, then i checked the canyon caves and the critters in there, but in the next moment, at a mere 5/4 rank, i decided to infiltrate the enemy's very own city and started running south. On my first try the firemobs got me down, but then i scouted a path around and made my way into the grasslands, activating outpost Genreps on my way. Not in vain, as a replicant shot me down as i went down a hill slope unsuspectingly, so i had to restart my dangerous journey from a GR halfways. I managed to avoid his kin and reached the shoreline, turned west, found a smugglers camp where i could sell some loot and buy a handful of stamina boosters (at least!), and soon after reached a secret passage entrance that led me to some Black Dragon facilities and finally Pepper Park, where i tagged the GR breathlessly. That was really exciting.
But it seems you can't really share my exicement. I feel sorry for you. Good luck tho.
No sorry I enjoy pvp, fighting mostly intelligent opponents who will try to counter what you do and fight in an intelligent way, I cannot find enjoyment from sneaking past NPCs with a set aggro range to tag a GR. It sounds like neocron isn't for you honestly, neocron is mainly about the pvp, sure some people find enjoyment in the pve but its very badly done compared to almost ANY other MMO out there.
If you love pve like you seem to I'd suggest WoW, Rift, or maybe even ESO, all are games which have a strong focus on pve with almost no pvp content so would be right up your alley.
2 Accounts isn't really an option as I thought it was meant to be frowned on, and even then it requires grinding to cap again.
It always has been an option, even though the little check box (when making new accounts) asks if you have other accounts. The honest truth is that if you don't have multiple accounts you are not keeping up with other people.
I have had multiple accounts since Neocron started. If it is no longer allowed, then I expect a refund on my purchases since I bought my accounts. So, not allowing it now is stupid; especially when you can't find anyone else to do those tasks for you.
Also, you don't have to cap a character to do some of the other tasks needed, like poking/repair/recycling, ect...
PvP in neocron is the best i have ever played...it is the only reason i will come back to nc once the patch drops =)
Exactly, but the current death penalty with low pop means you spend more time refitting and trade skilling than fighting
Neocron is an MMORPG. It is for both PvP and PvE. Get back to the topic of death penalties in the game, further "this isn't for you, go play something else" posts will be removed as off topic. Keep it constructive. We're more than willing to contribute to discussions but we don't get time to do that if we have to wade through pages of non-constructive posts.
Drachenpaladin
11-07-14, 16:28
[ edited - see my post above ]
Topic: half the SI gain and implant drop chance upon death!
on topic: i think we all can agreee that PvP in Neocron is exciting (i think we also can agree there are a lot of different things to do in Neocron) now you want to lower the penalties for ingame death, so you can play that part of the game easier. you also want this change for the whole game, not just for you and your friends, because you believe your favourite part of the game somehow must be everybody elses fave, too.
be it the question of less synaptic impairment, less beltdrop, less implant drops, more warzones, but also the LE in general or safezones or whatnot. we all know there was a big experiment in Neocrons long history, testing exactly this question: what if we had a PvP server, making all things PvP easier? Will all people go there, leaving the "boring" old standard server rules? We all know Neptune failed.
DIABLO666, i want to ask you: What do you think will happen if we put up a second server according to your desired rules? Will everybody leave Titan and go there? Maybe not. Maybe just half of the population will move to the son of Neptune, maybe less, so playing there wont be any fun. Right. We all know that. So why do you demand changes of the Neocron ruleset that are desired by just the half of the player base, or even less? Do you really want to force your ideas on others, risking they will leave the game?
My bet is the dedicated PvP-crowd is about 10% of the ingame population. All the others are quite happy playing the game as it is. my idea is: lets work together making the game more interesting for everyone. My bet also is there will be at least twice as much players by autumn. And if the balancing project will succeed, even more. Lets not forget the game today is way more reliable than ever before, has less bugs, is more fun to play.
i also need to add that i'm clearly opposing your proposal, diablo, for the reasons explained above.
I'm willing to bet its the other way around, 90% loving pvp the other 10% being traders who have a pvp character, the pve has never been neocron best feature, there are a 100 other MMOs that have vastly superior pve, and honestly I've never ever seen a clan saying "join us a pve dedicate clan with no pvp" as thats just not the sort of people who play neocron in general.
Also if you enjoy pve why do you think a lower death penalty will make it worse? if you just enjoy killing monsters which its almost impossible to die too except when you turn a corner and run into a grim then death penalties don't affect you really. I'd be happy to have an experiment where we have a pure pvp and pure pve server and see which one people flood too, my guess would be over 90% going to the pvp one.
I'm willing to concede a small number of people enjoy the pve and do only that as for some unknown by science reason they think neocron has the best pve of any game out there, but the main meat has and will always be the pvp, hell the huge balance patch thats happening is based almost soley around pvp, and right now the pvp isn't as fun as it use to be because it use to be fun as when you died you could always find a poker and repairer you trusted so while it was annoying it was that annoyance which made you not want to die and made the fighting tense, now its just not tense its unbearable to die as you can end up needing to log off for days if you die even once.
Doc Holliday
13-07-14, 11:24
Newsflash. You dont need WOC to repair your gear or reimplant it.
Crying about something when you blatantly ignore the facts of how to execute the solution is not justified. Its just a waste of text.
Trivaldis ideas are actually pretty good.
Another help would be that the imp TL requirements on MC5 chips could be LOWERED 8|to 84 for example. Make them accessible for a private eye to spec some points in to implant and be able to do them (like in NC1) and still have enough points left over for weapon lore etc. This comes from balancing. Its a very valid idea and will help what is a massively struggling population.
As for the no more than one account ruling i would highly suggest that be relaxed as, with each account being logged in dual or triple, it will help to inflate the sense of population in the game and may even help its revival not kill it in embryonic form.
I did not read all the long texts. But thats why i like to put in IMP if im leveling. U dont need weapon lore if u leveling up.
As for repairment, just buy new shit. And always have trade channel on when u leveling. Once u see repairments in p1, stop leveling and go get repairments.
I did not read all the long texts. But thats why i like to put in IMP if im leveling. U dont need weapon lore if u leveling up.
As for repairment, just buy new shit. And always have trade channel on when u leveling. Once u see repairments in p1, stop leveling and go get repairments.
Sadly its not as simple as that... I do buy new armour if that breaks but with my rares and MC5s I don't go to any repper I don't trust and theres non I recognize right now so I tend to wait till a clan repairer comes on.
As for 2 accounts, sadly I might just need to it seems, its a boring ass proccess breaking a chaincraft / rhino to repair but at least I could level up a imper and repper to an at least reasonable level quickly. Just annoying that I need to buy a Rhino / chaincraft and get a damn vehicle user so I can move it to a safe spot for it =(
Doc Holliday
14-07-14, 11:05
Sadly its not as simple as that... I do buy new armour if that breaks but with my rares and MC5s I don't go to any repper I don't trust and theres non I recognize right now so I tend to wait till a clan repairer comes on.
As for 2 accounts, sadly I might just need to it seems, its a boring ass proccess breaking a chaincraft / rhino to repair but at least I could level up a imper and repper to an at least reasonable level quickly. Just annoying that I need to buy a Rhino / chaincraft and get a damn vehicle user so I can move it to a safe spot for it =(
Start with a quad. Then move up to rhino after dex 40. It doesnt even take a day. Less with double xp. You make it sound like a chore. Its not. You could have probably done it in the time it took to make this thread.
William Antrim
15-07-14, 01:27
If you are going to limit implants dropping on death then they need to be able to be fixed whilst still inside the player. Have a new tool used by the implanter or the repairer where he can fire the tool at the other player and all of the implants that guy has get fixed up dependent on the value.
The repairer/implanter - whichever skill you decide to base this off - can then have some form of material he has to use to decide how much money he asks for. Obviously people can still rip him off but there is a cash sink here as he buys these implant repair nannites, or you dont include them and just use the cost of the lube as it is currently.
Also another direct solution to this problem would be to increase DRAMATICALLY the experience gain from ALL tradeskills. This would make people play them more. In nc1 they were an integral part of the community and people had reputations built and lost on being a good researcher or constructor or even a reliable street doc.
These days the population is 25% of that and yet nobody trusts anyone not to scam them and people only log on for clanned jobs.
If you gave them more xp then more independent firms would set up and unclanned runners would probably spend their days repairing and poking more in plaza instead of being out there in the wastelands endlessly hunting sandworms like Torg.
Now that idea I do like, I wouldn't mind leveling a trade skiller if you could level them as a trade skiller but you can't cos the exp is so damn low, most people just buy tl150s to run then are still forced to do pve if they want to finish capping, it would be nice if actually doing these missions (not just handing in but actually doing the job yourself) gave enough exp to cap on. It would mean more traders and less angry traders.
I miss the old days of clans like phoenix that were almost purely traders known for it so you could trust any of them to do jobs for you =(
If you take away the implant drop, you change the pvp too much. Imagine an op fight where you dont have to rezz people since they just have to port in their undergroung, wait a minute or two, and come out again. The attacking team would be even more in a disadvantage (if the op is nowhere near a free gr).
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