View Full Version : New Patch ?
I keep hearing its only a few weeks/months away i know it has to go on to Test server first but is there a List of patch notes anywhere or would that only be when when it hits the test server??
Patch notes will be released along side the relevant patches, for both Vedeena and Titan releases. Then we 100% know what is and isn't going into that patch in case of any "11th hour" changes. If you follow us on Twitter (http://www.neocron-game.com/about-us) you'll see little snippets of things we're working on.
We're also working to bring that sort of thing closer to the community in a new area of the web site. We appreciate the feedback we've had about dev updates in the past. We're already trying to be a bit more open when we post on the forums. The dedicated space for that stuff will come in due course though.
Hopefully the next patch will reach you on the shorter end of the time scale you mention above.
Patch notes will be released along side the relevant patches, for both Vedeena and Titan releases. Then we 100% know what is and isn't going into that patch in case of any "11th hour" changes. If you follow us on Twitter (http://www.neocron-game.com/about-us) you'll see little snippets of things we're working on.
We're also working to bring that sort of thing closer to the community in a new area of the web site. We appreciate the feedback we've had about dev updates in the past. We're already trying to be a bit more open when we post on the forums. The dedicated space for that stuff will come in due course though.
Hopefully the next patch will reach you on the shorter end of the time scale you mention above.
Thank you for the very quick Mate
Hopefully the next patch will reach you on the shorter end of the time scale you mention above.
In the interest of being more open and transparent, here's some more information...
Vedeena will receive at least two patches which will make up Titan's R#186 patch. Patches in addition to those two will be for tweaking and to fix any issues discovered by the community. We still aim to bring you that first test patch in the earlier part of your given time scale, despite some delays.
The first will deliver some much anticipated balance updates, which require significant testing and input from the community. These changes are coming to Vedeena first, rather than Sparta, due to the requirement of underlying code base changes. These balance changes will not necessarily make it to Titan with the rest of R#186. Based on your testing and feedback we may branch these balance changes to Sparta for further adjustment. Your testing and feedback will be vital for this reason!
This first test patch will also include code and logic adjustments, bug and exploit fixes, feature tweaks and stability improvements. The second test patch will arrive once we've received enough input on the first. It will feature plenty of content changes; object placement fixes, cosmetic updates and some new stuff you're yet to see. :)
I guess everyone is cool with that then? ;)
hudsonbeck
05-04-14, 18:11
I guess everyone is cool with that then? ;)
It would seem so. :)
Qui tacet consentit
Drachenpaladin
05-04-14, 19:04
No i'm not. This sounds way too good to be true :p
I'll believe it, when I see it..
Let us know when something new comes to the testserver.. That'll make it worthwhile to reinstall NC..
MayhemMichael
06-04-14, 13:29
I'll believe it, when I see it..
Let us know when something new comes to the testserver.. That'll make it worthwhile to reinstall NC..
miss u walker ;p
I guess everyone is cool with that then? ;)
I just hope you know how important it is, that the balancing doesn't just consider the preferences of the dev team. Changes should be discussed among all members of the community and not be introduced if there isn't a consensus, otherwise parts of the playerbase might be put off.
MayhemMichael
06-04-14, 14:58
I just hope you know how important it is, that the balancing doesn't just consider the preferences of the dev team. Changes should be discussed among all members of the community and not be introduced if there isn't a consensus, otherwise parts of the playerbase might be put off.
I agree with this. I bet they are too far in the balancing to consider community ideas tho. I personally would like to see APUs at the very least be useful for something other than barreling a UG.
miss u walker ;p
<3 :p
I just hope you know how important it is, that the balancing doesn't just consider the preferences of the dev team. Changes should be discussed among all members of the community and not be introduced if there isn't a consensus, otherwise parts of the playerbase might be put off.
This patch will probably make or break NC (yeah, I know it has been said millions of times over the years).
The population is extremely low atm, so if something goes wrong...
At the same time though, time is a problem aswell, since the pop gets lower everyday(ish).
Im just glad Im not in the Dev team's shoes..
Im just glad Im not in the Dev team's shoes..
Sometimes I wish I could say the same ;)
I just hope you know how important it is, that the balancing doesn't just consider the preferences of the dev team. Changes should be discussed among all members of the community and not be introduced if there isn't a consensus, otherwise parts of the playerbase might be put off.
I think everyone knows how important this project is, that is why we are working hard to get this right and sort out the current issues. It is of course also in our own interest to make as many players happy as possible!
Nevertheless, keep in mind that the balancing related changes might not make it to Titan within this patch. We very much hope that we can apply them also to Titan and that in the end the balance will be far better than before, but that we have to test together and you will have to provide us with your feedback. Even if the changes make it to Titan they will just be the beginning! Although admittedly a quite rocky beginning ;)
So let me go into a bit more detail about the upcoming changes: as you know our intention was to start out on Sparta with a new dpm vs tl curve, because our investigations revealed that the current one was all over the place. Based on the calculations Neocron used, we built a new tool to visualize the dpm taking into account things like the reloading time, clip size and more. We felt quite confident that this would work and result in a balanced dpm vs tl curve, but in the end this approach failed.
We assumed the frequency to be at least approximately fixed, which is wrong. The frequency of weapons changes with the skillpoints the player invests in certain skills. We now implemented a new option which enables us to turn this dependency of the weapon frequency on the player's skill setup on or off. We will apply a new balanced dpm vs tl curve to Vedeena with T#186 and we will disable the dependency of the weapon frequency on the player's skill setup.
We decided against the introduction of an additional term in the damage calculation to compensate for this effect, because this would make the computations far more complex than they need to be.
Hell-demon
06-04-14, 17:20
Cash Shop when?
:p
Pink Panther
07-04-14, 18:51
I guess everyone is cool with that then? ;)
I play this game with the most skilled and knowledgeable pvp players. The dev team has not asked one single relevant person what the issues even are. We have notebooks full of setups and years of experience. You should be asking US what the problem is instead of sorting through irrelevant opinions that are simply wrong or biased. We need a player counsel, not continued dilution of the game by bad judgements. Walker, Mayhem, Warlok, Wowz, Dasore, Smurf, Tino, Strife, Kami, Invinci, Mace. Ask anyone of these guys what is unbalanced and we will all tell you the same thing. Ask the best and get the best help. My apologies to the few names I missed but you prob got banned for being good at NC.
I play this game with the most skilled and knowledgeable pvp players. The dev team has not asked one single relevant person what the issues even are. We have notebooks full of setups and years of experience. You should be asking US what the problem is instead of sorting through irrelevant opinions that are simply wrong or biased. We need a player counsel, not continued dilution of the game by bad judgements. Walker, Mayhem, Warlok, Wowz, Dasore, Smurf, Tino, Strife, Kami, Invinci, Mace. Ask anyone of these guys what is unbalanced and we will all tell you the same thing. Ask the best and get the best help. My apologies to the few names I missed but you prob got banned for being good at NC.
<3
And yeah I agree. Most of these balance changes/ideas have been made 100% by the Dev team (correct me, if Im wrong).
And eventhough the Dev team might have access to all the numbers, numbers REALLY dont mean much, when the weapons are as different as they are.
And dont get me started on implants.. And armor (fucking PA's!!).. and vehicles ..and..and..and....
Unfortunately I dont think many of the mentioned PvP'ers are very active on the forum though.
And that sadly leads to bad choices being made, when we finally are asked.
William Antrim
07-04-14, 19:33
You don't need the opinions of the community when you're balancing according to Tl. That is a tangible asset, no opinions mean one iota.
Testing is needed by the population when the changes hit. Listening to experts in the community got nc in the state it's in.
The current changes are years old you don't need just the current crop of experts to comment on that. It is plain for all to see. If the game goes back to something akin to nc1 balancing but improved and without the bugs it stands as good a chance as any of surviving.
That formula worked. A host of mess ups post nc2 are what made the population dwindle after that time.
Balancing is one thing but that won't fix everything. More needs to be done for the casual pvper too.
Pink Panther
07-04-14, 19:36
You don't need the opinions of the community when you're balancing according to Tl. That is a tangible asset, no opinions mean one iota.
Testing is needed by the population when the changes hit. Listening to experts in the community got nc in the state it's in.
[Edited]
William Antrim
07-04-14, 19:48
You understand the difference between an opinion from an individual and a calculation from a computer don't you? An opinion is open to human bias. A computer or an equation generally is not.
When the game patches then provide feedback but name dropping a few players who PvP this week doesn't give you any more credibility today than anyone else here.
Years ago kk consulted people in the community. It didn't work out too well. I'm concerned that it might happen again - nobody can come right in here professing to be the know all and fix all expert. It doesn't lend any kind of belief in credibility bud.
hudsonbeck
07-04-14, 21:15
I seriously hope this is a joke…
I play this game with the most skilled and knowledgeable pvp players. The dev team has not asked one single relevant person what the issues even are.
You may play with the “most skilled and knowledgeable pvp players.” of today but are you expecting that to automatically grant you immediate and absolute credit and worth?
The Dev team has asked everyone for their opinion. There are entire forums dedicated to ideas & bugs.
Also, being a self-reported “most skilled and knowledgeable pvp player.” Doesn’t make you the only group of “relevant” players. Seriously how self-imposed importance and narcissistic are you?
We have notebooks full of setups and years of experience. You should be asking US what the problem is instead of sorting through irrelevant opinions that are simply wrong or biased.
Again, they are asking for your feedback/ideas/testing. They are asking everyone for this information. They cannot force you or anyone to come participate. It is your choice to stay silent, but being silent takes away your right to bitch.
We need a player counsel, not continued dilution of the game by bad judgements. Walker, Mayhem, Warlok, Wowz, Dasore, Smurf, Tino, Strife, Kami, Invinci, Mace. Ask anyone of these guys what is unbalanced and we will all tell you the same thing. Ask the best and get the best help.
Playing a game for hours upon hours, having good hand/eye coordination, having low latency, and sharing/combining setups for PVP does not make you a game balance expert. Seriously? [/QUOTE]
My apologies to the few names I missed but you prob got banned for being good at NC.
I had to laugh at this… Players weren’t arbitrarily banned. They were banned for specific reasons: hacking/client modification, stealing, possessing items they should never have had, just to name a few.
I use to respect many of these players until I found out they had many unfair advantages. I even share a birthdate with one of them(day not year). I have no respect for any of these people you speak of…
Contribute positively if you want to change the game but don’t come here as a newly registered forum member and bitch/complain/put people down and tell everyone how fucking important you are…
Powerpunsh
07-04-14, 21:37
99% of the community doesnt even understand the complexivity of a balancing depends on their game mechanic. Its not just buff weapon x or nerf shield y. Its much more and if you understand the progress which has been done on Vendeena you will understand and would give credits for what is going on behind the szenes. Be patient.
I smell flame but here're my 50 cents.
99% of the community doesnt even understand the complexivity of a balancing depends on their game mechanic. Its not just buff weapon x or nerf shield y. Its much more and if you understand the progress which has been done on Vendeena you will understand and would give credits for what is going on behind the szenes. Be patient.
Actually you could've also tried to just fix the balance by making small adjustments one after another to the already existing system instead of complicating everything as much as possible. But it's the Dev Team's choice and I'm not going to bitch about it before i even saw anything :)
But chances are, if it's as complex as you depict it, it's going to have a hard time getting adjusted to the "neocron reality".
Walker, Mayhem, Warlok, Wowz, Dasore, Smurf, Tino, Strife, Kami, Invinci, Mace.
LOL
I still have to grin when i read this list 3 hours later.
edit:actually had to lough 3 hours later
Hello there egotists, your king is about to speak:
You don't know everything. You don't know the answer to what ails you. You don't know what to fix, specifically, until you use them thar mathematicals. You don't know who got banned or why unless you are both the person who got banned, and the KK/NST rep who performed the banning. As someone who has been on the receiving end of a ban, I can promise you what the player base will say about you will have varying ranges of truth... Usually none, though. I personally know players on 'that list' and can speak to their playstyle and their hacktitude. I'll let you know right now that whatever you think know about them is probably wrong.
Take what you think you know and shove it. You get answers by asking questions and exploring the responses, not by asserting your assumptions.
/edit:
To contribute to the actual thread, I believe that users should drive focus and numbers should drive results. Once that is done, you do it all over again. And Again. And Again.
This is the development model that the gaming industry, and largely the software industry as a whole, has been pushing to achieve for years. This is how Valve has come to become who they are today. If you even try to dispute that, there are no more words for you. Words are lost on you, like sand upon an ocean floor.
Powerpunsh
08-04-14, 00:35
Nah i dont flame. But sayin the best knows the most or should have been asked what to do is just stupid. Lets wait for the next deployment and check what we can adjust. :)
Drachenpaladin
08-04-14, 00:59
Gotta love the self-righteousness. How can people expect to be asked or considered if they keep their shit only to them-selfs? You got notebooks full of what? Has a single letter been forwarded to the dev team? How do expect to be considered if you don't give a fucking meep until its almost too late?
I haven't seen a single page of that here on the forums, you might want to enlighten us all with your knowledge.
Put your claims to the table, mates.
You got notebooks full of what?
binders full of women, and such
Without replying to any post specifically, I will say a few things.
The game mechanics are far more complex than people realise and the way different factors affect weapons of the same type can vary, let alone different weapon types.
Our current approach is a mathematical one. It is the sowing of the seeds, a base to work from. Getting this part right is critical. This is outwardly a very 'internal' affair and can seem that community input is under-valued. This is not the case; the last two deployments have - through player input - exposed the problems that are being currently eliminated. Namely the way sub-skills affect DPM in an inconsistent manner as previously mentioned in the balance forum.
Beyond that foundation laying (which includes not just the weapon behaviour, but the armour, implant and PA systems, which as I and others have said, is not conductive to the degree of PvP-viable setup choice we want) is where the real community input begins.
Things like PPUs, Hybrids, class roles, stealth and the difference between solo/small number and OP fight-level PvP (if any).
All of which is quite subjective and complex.
Saying that it could take years to complete sounds like a cop-out on our part, and while we want to get as much done as possible as soon as possible, the process will not be rushed or simple.
It should also be mentioned that declaring that Neocron is balanced by any party (be it developers or players) is arguably a pointless, premature, reckless and potentially unachievable goal. There will always be something to improve. Each step might be smaller than the last (like taking a step half as long as the one previous towards something), but there will always be scope for improvement.
You will see activity in the near future, at least on the test server(s).
Saying 'Please be patient' may sound condescending, but there's not much else that can be said.
The next set of changes will require community input; so when it comes along, get on Sparta and tell us what you think.
99% of the community doesnt even understand the complexivity of a balancing depends on their game mechanic. Its not just buff weapon x or nerf shield y.[...]
Or add dmg bonus to rare z.
Yes, you are right. And this kind of thinking brought us here and fucked up the balance completely over the years.
In Germany we have a word that describes this kind of approach, and we call it "Flickschusterei". However, I dunno the translation for it.
That's what had to be cleaned up first. Now the NST is establishing a reliable base to work with.
After this has succeeded we will see a lot of progress.
Drachenpaladin
08-04-14, 12:33
In Germany we have a word that describes this kind of approach, and we call it "Flickschusterei". However, I dunno the translation for it.
Workaround or Hotfix^^
William Antrim
08-04-14, 12:52
The English translation to that word is probably clusterfuck.
The English translation to that word is probably clusterfuck.
My first thought as I read the German term.
MayhemMichael
09-04-14, 05:38
"Hurry up and wait".
To be fair, last time the community whined about something till they got input, the entire PSI skill was mangled across the board for all classes rendering it useless for all classes except ppu.
Also, I don't bother helping out with anything. I've tried. If I send in anything to @exploits pretty sure it doesn't even get looked at.
So I'll just hurry up and wait with everyone else.
Let me add a little bit more detail to Bragi's very nice post.
The current balancing of Neocron can simply not be taken as a reference/foundation for discussions because there is no balancing. It is all over the place to say the least. Let's have a look at the TL vs DPM curve:
12316
the y axis being a set of weapons, the x axis being the damage per minute. Note that the tl spacing between weapons is not always equidistant, because we do not have a weapon each two tls. The tl of the weapon's is increasing from top to bottom. One clearly observes that there is not hierarchy. It is completely broken.
So, as pointed out by Bragi, to create a foundation for discussion, we are first of all fixing the dpm hierarchy so we have a foundation for discussions where indeed there should be a hierarchy between weapons depending on their tl. We did not change the characteristics of the weapons (frequency and such) we only changed their damage per shot. The intended TL vs DPM curve which will go into T#186 looks as follows:
12317
the y axis being the same set of weapons as before, the x axis being the damage per minute. Note that the tl spacing between weapons is not always equidistant, because we do not have a weapon each two tls. This time there is a clear hierarchy between weapons.
Both plots were made for one and the same skill setup. We also investigated whether different setups destroy the intended hierarchy. They dont :)
As some of you know we intended to do this also in R#185 on Sparta. The reason it failed there, as stated before, is that the DPM does non linearly depend on the players setup, because the player's setup affects the frequency as well as the damage output of a weapon. We now have the possibility to fix the weapon frequency and thus make it independent of a player's setup to avoid this non-linear dependency.
Our "Balancing Visualizer" takes into account a lot. In fact it uses the same calculations as Neocron does. However the problem is a multidimensional one (consisting of many parameters("Stellschrauben")). Visualizing the dependency of the dpm curve on all parameters at once is not possible, so we can always only look at certain dependencies and investigate how changes evolve. We have taken great care to make sure we figured out the main dependencies, but in the end you only know if you were right once you put your assumptions to test, which is what we are going to do very soon(TM)!
In case there are people in the community which deal with correlations, data visualization, big data and such on a daily basis, please feel free to apply to help us analyzing the data and developing good models to model it!
snip
Good read.
And holy hell.. Didnt think that SH had such a crazy DPS.. Especially compared to BHG..
Good read.
And holy hell.. Didnt think that SH had such a crazy DPS.. Especially compared to BHG..
Just to be clear, these graphs show Damage Per Minute and not per second.
Just to be clear, these graphs show Damage Per Minute and not per second.
Im at work, so I just read it fast, but thanks for clearing it up ;)
MayhemMichael
09-04-14, 13:07
q
So you're saying melee has a chance!
http://youtu.be/zMRrNY0pxfM
Powerpunsh
09-04-14, 13:12
Did you change aimspeed /range either? More charts please! :D
William Antrim
09-04-14, 13:17
Theoretically by the maths every weapon should have a chance to do similar dpm to every other weapon around its tl. That's the whole point of using maths as a yard stick and not the opinions of players.
Pftt, you people and your 'balance'
What I want to see is the shiny new textures. Please devs, give me some screenshots, I beg of you!
STALKER20AU
09-04-14, 14:45
Well, its very intresting. Especialli if all exist weapons in game will work (dont know how its now, but on Terra and on start of Titan few weapons was not work. When shot they just waste ammo, and nothin more).
Theoretically by the maths every weapon should have a chance to do similar dpm to every other weapon around its tl. That's the whole point of using maths as a yard stick and not the opinions of players.
The major problem with this is the difficulty level of the weapons (how hard it is to use).
Weapons like Dev and Libby are not easy to use. They need to do some more damage to make up for that.
IMO skill should be rewarded. The harder to user, the more damage.
Or do you want all weapons to act the exact same?
hudsonbeck
09-04-14, 16:06
Just a quick question so I can hopefully understand this effort and end goal a little better… Please excuse any misunderstandings.
To me this seems more like weapon damage output equalization. Basically trying to get all weapons to have the same damage output by TL, stepping up or down with TL increase/decrease.
Once this foundation is complete, will there then be a modifier applied to each class or other identifier? For example: If the equalization gives an APU and a H-C GenTank the same DPM with like TL weapons (APU using Holy Lightning TL 101 | GenTank using Ravager TL 100) wont that lead to even greater class unbalancing?
I don’t expect an APU and Gentank to be able to stand toe-to-toe, hit ‘fire’ at the same time and both drop simultaneously. I also realize each class or player type needs to use differing tactics, but in this example, I see no tactic where the APU has a chance. The GenTank is faster, has more armor, and has more resists. The GenTank also has the highest TL weapons available. I see the same situation with other classes as well… Spy vs. GenTank: Range not an advantage anymore but at least the Spy will be able to stealth to get the hell out of there :)
I am just trying to get a better understanding of the full thought process and end goal. I agree you have to standardize the DPM to start since it is the foundation.
Fixed frequency has been mentioned as well. So once the damage has been standardized will the balance be attempted by adjusting frequency or even a class type modifier?
Modifier example: H-C GenTank DPM modifier = 1.0 | APU DPM modifier 1.25
Frequency example: H-C Gentank Ravager shots per minute = 120 | APU Holy Lightning shots per minute = 150
Then it’s not really Damage Per Minute (DPM) anymore.
So is this just more accurately described as Weapon Damage Standardization by Tech Level as a foundation to begin Class balancing?
Sorry if this makes no sense and I have no idea what I’m talking about… I am also at work trying to prep for a meeting but wanted to throw this out so I can simply understand this whole idea/process/goal better.
Thank You!
Don't turn this in to a carebear game. Skill is the #1 thing that makes this game unique.
If everything becomes linear and "easy" to use, the game will die for sure, and it'll just be another mmofps shooter out there.
William Antrim
09-04-14, 16:21
The major problem with this is the difficulty level of the weapons (how hard it is to use).
Weapons like Dev and Libby are not easy to use. They need to do some more damage to make up for that.
IMO skill should be rewarded. The harder to user, the more damage.
Or do you want all weapons to act the exact same?
That is where the aiming skill (weapon lore) comes into play. The tighter the reticle closes the more accurate the gun is in theory. With so many different styles of weapon to account for (e.g burst beam and aoe) then other factors will obviously play a part but you have to start with the basics. When the dpm curve is balanced you can begin to add other modifiers according to these proposed changes. Some weapons will need to be toned down invariably as others may need to be boosted. Freezers for example. This range of guns will be potentially thrown right out of whack by the changes. Their damage currently is pitiful and the freeze (as we know) is terrible. In this case no freeze is a good thing, as we all most likely agree. However suddenly if these changes are made then freezers will have a huge boost to damage and maintain SOME freeze capability. The question here is, is this too much? Is it a game breaker. That is where the community comes in.
Don't turn this in to a carebear game. Skill is the #1 thing that makes this game unique.
If everything becomes linear and "easy" to use, the game will die for sure, and it'll just be another mmofps shooter out there.
What else do you propose? What other solution is there to create balancing in the game? the game is already suffering lack of population due to the incredibly poor balance it has. There are only a small handful of guns that are viable. Changing the game to accomodate more guns means more people can fight one another with their chosen weapon from a much earlier time. More viable weapons means more pvp. I dont know how it would be otherwise.
There are players in this game even after 18 months of the server being up who have amassed thousands of parts and built hundreds of guns. These personal armouries are sat waiting for the balancing to hit and then the resurge in population that everyone is waiting for ought to finally happen.
If the balancing is not put right that would be the death knell for nc, I can stake my oath on it.
Cant be arsed to write a long post about the different weapons characteristics because some weapons are really easy to use and have quite high TL (Dissy,BHG9). This post here sums it up perfectly.
The major problem with this is the difficulty level of the weapons (how hard it is to use).
Weapons like Dev and Libby are not easy to use. They need to do some more damage to make up for that.
IMO skill should be rewarded. The harder to user, the more damage.
Or do you want all weapons to act the exact same?
Also, did you take into account that it is really hard to get certain resist types to a high level? What about fixing hit detection for beam/laser/freeze weapons and class specific resist and health efficiency first? Oh, and make PA, Armor and Skillpoint resists worth the same maybe? What about the hilarious efficiency of PPU-Shields against certain weapons (FL,PE)?
Sry, but this is the wrong approach. I just can't imagine a TL/DPM First Love being viable when theres a TL/DPM Dissy around.
Fix stuff first, then lower the efficiency of high level shields, lower overall damage of all weapons and then adjust every single weapon until it can compete.
The major problem with this is the difficulty level of the weapons (how hard it is to use).
Weapons like Dev and Libby are not easy to use. They need to do some more damage to make up for that.
IMO skill should be rewarded. The harder to user, the more damage.
Or do you want all weapons to act the exact same?
Though it can seem like an interesting idea, there are some serious problems with it.
Firstly, you over-reward higher skill (bear with me) and over-penalise lower skill.
What I mean is that we want skill to be rewarded equally for all weapons. Two people of equal skill but different weapons will not be fair. Nor would two people of lower skill. It's the raw skill we want to focus on.
Secondly, people will choose a smaller selection of weapons because they are either too hard to use or out damage others. This limits a player choice of weapons.
That does not mean we want it to be easy. Some weapons are too easy to use, others are harder. The aiming performance of each weapon can be changed but that is a rather distant stage at this point. We want to look at the numbers first.
Stuff.
This is a base-line to work from. Each weapon class (pistol, rifle, APU, etc.) can be altered independently of each other and will be at a latter stage depending on the rest of the changes to implants and armour.
The numbers are a total DPM, factoring the instant damage and the frequency. We have fixed the frequency of the weapons so that sub-skills do not inconsistently alter DPM as they vary. We then balanced the instant damage so that each weapon fitted to the curve.
Also, did you take into account that it is really hard to get certain resist types to a high level? What about fixing hit detection for beam/laser/freeze weapons and class specific resist and health efficiency first? Oh, and make PA, Armor and Skillpoint resists worth the same maybe? What about the hilarious efficiency of PPU-Shields against certain weapons (FL,PE)?
The armour system is certainly going to get overhauled. The focus with the DPM work does not take much of the current game into assumption because the game will be worked around it, or rather for it.
Sry, but this is the wrong approach. I just can't imagine a TL/DPM First Love being viable when theres a TL/DPM Dissy around.
With just these changes, yes, that's right, because of how the implants currently work (or don't).
Fix stuff first, then lower the efficiency of high level shields, lower overall damage of all weapons and then adjust every single weapon until it can compete.
We want to work from the ground up. Hotfixing everything backwards will lead us to a tangled mess.
We are looking at PPU related changes in parallel with this, as well the other things you mentioned. Everything is up for review and possible change if necessary.
William Antrim
09-04-14, 23:59
One patch isn't gonna fix it all Falk.
I will say that I know where he is coming from. The current PvP situation on retail is not what we want and some tangible changes sooner rather than later are desired by much of the community.
It might be possible to make some temporary changes while the game is being reworked, but that is not a promise and I would have to find out if it were feasible.
How are Mob "weapons" affected by this change?
Will their damage output based on "Level" or "TL" of the mob calculated with the new formula too?
How are Mob "weapons" affected by this change?
Will their damage output based on "Level" or "TL" of the mob calculated with the new formula too?
Without going into details, mob weapon performance is determined by their rank. They too have been balanced, though this is currently limited to NPC versions of player weapons (Ie. guns and spells).
MayhemMichael
10-04-14, 02:20
Without going into details, mob weapon performance is determined by their rank. They too have been balanced, though this is currently limited to NPC versions of player weapons (Ie. guns and spells).
The hopper man! what about the hopper!
The hopper man! what about the hopper!
And freaking Persi! Yeah yeah, I know they are 120/120 but still.. Damn!
And freaking Persi! Yeah yeah, I know they are 120/120 but still.. Damn!
As you can see there are several other problems we have to tackle while balancing all the weapons. There are bugs which influence the DPM of weapons and monsters in the game. As an example you can see that some APU spells are currently not working correctly. This makes it a lot hard to balance things correctly. Such bugs needed to get eliminated first.
Persi damage seems to be bugged as well (personal opinion - not based on valid research). At least some of its attacks do more damage than they should. This could have a million possible reasons. PVE balancing is something we will look at at a later stage of the project.
pottburter
10-04-14, 10:35
Sorry if this de-rails the thread a bit, but as you're talking about mob damage right now:
Imho, more important than balancing mob damage would be to finally fix the bug of invisible mobs/invisible mob shots.
This bug is around way too long and killing fun (at least mine) hunting.
Can't count the times I start burning without seeing any shot or getting killed by a WB that only could be seen after a relog.
And it can't be a local issue when 2 team mates can't see them either.
Again, sorry for derailing.
Sorry if this de-rails the thread a bit, but as you're talking about mob damage right now:
Imho, more important than balancing mob damage would be to finally fix the bug of invisible mobs/invisible mob shots.
This bug is around way too long and killing fun (at least mine) hunting.
Can't count the times I start burning without seeing any shot or getting killed by a WB that only could be seen after a relog.
And it can't be a local issue when 2 team mates can't see them either.
Again, sorry for derailing.
Please raise a fresh Bug Report (http://forum.neocron-game.com/forumdisplay.php?233-Bug-Reports) with all relevant information and as much detail as you can provide. This is not something related to the next patch/balancing and needs to be reported correctly so we can deal with it accordingly. We believed this to be improved in a previous patch but obviously this is sadly not the case. Thanks!
EDIT: Quick chat with Alduin. Correction to the above...
We believed this issue had been somewhat improved (not fixed) in a previous patch, obviously this is still causing issues. I've re-opened the existing report (http://forum.neocron-game.com/showthread.php?146934-00310-R-176-Invisible-enemies&p=2225837&viewfull=1#post2225837), please post all relevant information there so we can take another look at this issue. Thanks.
As you can see there are several other problems we have to tackle while balancing all the weapons. There are bugs which influence the DPM of weapons and monsters in the game. As an example you can see that some APU spells are currently not working correctly. This makes it a lot hard to balance things correctly. Such bugs needed to get eliminated first.
Persi damage seems to be bugged as well (personal opinion - not based on valid research). At least some of its attacks do more damage than they should. This could have a million possible reasons. PVE balancing is something we will look at at a later stage of the project.
Uh yes, dont get me wrong, IMO PvE balance should have a very low priority.
As long as its not forgotten.
Those fuckers have insta-buttraped me more than once.. :p
You guys (DEV team) should consider shutting down access to Titan and force all players to Test Server once you deploy the patch.
William Antrim
11-04-14, 16:06
You guys (DEV team) should consider shutting down access to Titan and force all players to Test Server once you deploy the patch.
That is a great idea tbh.
Last patch when they needed stress testing they offered double xp which got a bunch of people to play. The problem is even in the current community you have loads of people who dont actually know what the test server is or even how to use it. When they did the stress test there were still people going - "where are my characters?" and "how do i level up?"
While it would be good having all of them for a stress test it could be both a blessing and a curse due to the actual people you get logging on, some could get pissed off and leave and others might be a tad difficult to deal with. :)
If it was briefed in advance that this was the intention though I think it would work a treat.
https://twitter.com/GM_Alduin
*Whistles*
T#186 has hit Vedeena! (http://forum.neocron-game.com/showthread.php?155325-R-186-T-186-Patch-Discussion)
Congrats and thanks for all your hard work, guys!
Hell-demon
15-04-14, 19:23
* deleted spambot* please only use the "report post button" next time ;) -Baldur
Hhhhhmmm this is very true. Very profound indeed.
Thoughts?
*sharp intake of breath*
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODDDDDSSSSSSSSSSS!
Powerpunsh
19-04-14, 19:02
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