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William Antrim
24-02-14, 23:21
This announcement is a statement to the general population of Neocron. It is slightly out of character but also well within the rules of RP.

We, the founding members of the Black Dragon Clan currently known as the Regulators, disagree with the Gene Replication rules currently in place in Neocron.

Having all of your outposts locked to GR/C does nothing to promote the freedom of exploration in Neocron and does nothing for the new players who want to experience life in this wonderful game of ours.

Therefore I will ask you politely to open up said GR's. All of them please. Every last one. In consultation with other clan leaders and prominent members of the community in all walks of life I have come to this conclusion that in order to generate more pvp, more roleplay and indeed more of a stable population generally people need access to newer areas of this world.

Now,

That's the nice part over with. We are now Black Dragons. The above was written from a diplomatic point of view.

If you dont open the ops then I will open them for you. My clan and I have the full support of a number of very seasoned veterans from all corners of the Neocron universe. We have the man power and we have the resources.

We can and will open as many of the outposts over as much of the day as is humanly possible. We are happy to log on to the server during peak times, off peak times, weekends, weekdays even Christmas Day if needs be.

If you only have one person online thats cool, I hope he wants a fight.

If you have nobody online - unlucky bro thats a cool story. Its not a ninja as you dont "own" the op. There is no bill of sale and no legal rights dictating your ownership. You only own it until I come along and successfully hack it. See above. I will do that.

Besides - its not a ninja because I just told you I am gonna do it. :)

If you believe you DO own the Op, lets have a fight about it. If you win ok I will come back with some more people and have another go. If I win then youd better believe the op is getting opened. If you ninja it back, all good. Just as long as you know I will do the same later on.

I believe in fair fights. Irrespective of how many people you have online I will always try to bring a fair opposition, however they will all be in my clan. If you dont have many people online well - see above.

This post is not directed at anyone in particular. The big clans of today will most likely not be here tomorrow. The sheep clans have come and gone down the years in one form or another. This week its City Mercs, last week it was Tsunami, next week it could be Diamond Real Estate. The GR rules have been the same all throughout. They have always been bad no matter who was "on top" at that time.

This post is not a threat. It is a fact. When we can muster a force of people for a fight we will go and pick a fight. In the meantime you can keep the Ops as long as they stay open for easy access to everyone in the game to use.

The op fighting scene has become stagnant.

For the good of everyone this needs to change and soon. More noobs in the game means more and bigger fights. More opposition means more fun for everyone.

If anyone else has looked at the map recently and thought "You know what I would love to go XXX but I can't because the GR is closed and I do not have a vehicle" then this thread is for you.

If anyone has thought this and actually wanted to make a difference then I can provide you with access to a group of like minded individuals who also want to see Neocron opened up to everyone.

To you guys I say click my signature and sign up at our forums. We will take you on a trial basis. This is not due to some egotistical bullsht. It is because we have a chemistry in our team that is currently second to none and we are loathe to disturb that with headcases, weirdos or social hand grenades.

So please consider my words and understand the meaning behind them. Realise that by locking your ops you are locking out large parts of the game for no apparent reason.

Please do not be known as another nobody sheep clan that everyone will move on from when the next big thing comes along, but instead be known as the clan or clans that defied the ancient and archaic GR rules that were dreamed up in a bygone era when some form of idiotic nationalistic pride from a few narrow-minded individuals killed an already dwindling population and thus doomed the pvp scene in NC to its current paltry state.

I urge you to consider this because I am itching to take your ops.


Thank you for reading all

Much love Julius. :)

W

spikesan
25-02-14, 03:39
[ edited ]

Doc Holliday
25-02-14, 05:26
[ edited ]

William Antrim
25-02-14, 06:12
I just love the way he had to go through the effort to make an account on the forum to post that. :)


Just another 5 minute clan I guess. :)

gstyle40
25-02-14, 06:40
THIS is hilarious, reading between the lines and all u just want to ninja. thats fine lol if we are on, we will defend. like at nemesis this morning when we had one guy turn away your attempts, and the only reason u got crest was because he didnt have the gr's in that area and had to run 2 people there. game on bruh! i can rp too, and o by the way, 17th has been here for quite a while, some members have come and gone, but the core still remain.....but now, theres a nighttime presence >D ps tell fork we said hi :D

William Antrim
25-02-14, 07:04
You dont need to read between the lines.

I made my point as clear as day.

one guy turned away my attempt? you mean when I hacked one layer to see who would turn up before we went and hacked crest? Yeah ok buddy. I did that because I logged my char in at that op and decided to find out if there were people on alts and just idling in TS/Vent/Mumble or whatever other VOIP software you guys use. Previously when we hacked a 17th op within a few minutes the clanned population went from 2 to 6. In my line of work we call this reconnaisance. Its my business.

the facts speak for themselves here.

At the end of the day 17th is the latest sheep clan. Whether they have been here for a while or not you are just the latest big thing. SXR getting involved just proves the point. SXR didnt amount to much in the op scene the last few years for any number of reasons and you guys went over to 17th is exactly what I mean. Just another group moving to a big clan. How many have we seen come and go down the last decade? SXR on pluto, FF, DarK, uTs and sYn on Uranus, The Cartel and NAT on Saturn, Terraists on Terra.... Soldierz (remember them lol?) and countless others down the years all had all the ops.... where did it get them? Nowhere really. Look at the game now, 5v5 is a big op fight these days. We used to be 12 vs the server back in the day.

One guy from 17th claimed a 9 man op fighting team was a zerg on the public channels a few days ago. When I laughed at him and asked how a zerg came in single digits he said well we only had 5 players.....

You are missing the point by a country mile. Leaving all the ops set to GR/C does nothing good for anyone in the game.

That is the point of this thread. When/if the populations go back up and some of the better NC players come back again 17th will lose their ops to those clans. At that time I will make another of these threads inviting them to see reason in opening the ops because as stated to you guys, the current GR rules are killing the game in terms of competition. One of the reasons why op fights are so few and far between is because of that problem. The other is a dwindling population, a point you should be all too familiar with during the "overnight" period.

P.s Biggin's Devourer said hi back, so your nighttime presence doesnt mean dick. :D

gstyle40
25-02-14, 09:15
will my man u make me chuckle with all this u speak of and i for the life of me can not remember any clan u have been in holding any ops (and i mean recent history like oooh the last 6-7 years). i mean seriously u may have been some part of some pvp based clan from back in the day, but the facts are the last ohh 6 years where have u and your clan actually been? sure ive been in sxr all that time, and we only really want and have successfully defended the lower left end of the map for about 5 years running while u were where? u have no ground to stand on with the bs u speak. big long well written post dont mean its true, just means it took longer to type :/ stop living in the past and make a mark in todays nc. and oh by the way, the reason the ops were closed and locked was because were fighting and tired of the attackers attacking open gr ops and being in the ug, so we locked them. so sue us for not unlocking them again lol. and your story, and the story i was told when i logged on b4 work are completly diffrent my dude....pps biggin has a dev?

Doc Holliday
25-02-14, 09:16
We can act like men or we can act like dicks.

Its a very big difference solved by a few simple clicks.


(poetic no? :P)

gstyle40
25-02-14, 09:30
We can act like men or we can act like dicks.

Its a very big difference solved by a few simple clicks.


(poetic no? :P)

lol so true doc, so true

Dropout
25-02-14, 11:01
As already mentioned.. Theres a VERY good reason why the OP's are closed.. Enemies in the UG is not very enjoyable.
OP security is probably a thing that the Dev's should take a look at though.

Doc Holliday
25-02-14, 11:35
blah blah blah. pps biggin has a dev?


Calling someone out on the clans they have been in isnt the biggest or smartest move when most of us these days play under many different alts.

Plus or minus 6-7 years. I highly doubt anyone has played solidly through that period especially through the turmoil this game has been through. If anyone legitimately has i say hats off to you. Even the most hardcore that played during the 2% terra times.

Now on to todays NC. Yes biggin has a dev. You died from it at Nemesis on sunday perhaps it was. The eastgate/soliko/nemesis fights. Aim/Walker/Alton/Brand/Yourself (madeinmurika?) were there. The last fight before made said he had to go work which coincidentally we won yet some time later that day/night had the op hacked.

So everyone cries ninja. everyone cries in general.

The fact remains more ops should be open and while it can be argued this is a dev issue and not a community issue given the current progress on the game we as a collective felt it most appropriate to take it upon ourselves to push the envelope somewhat and challenge the community.

1. If its such a major drama to have enemies in the UG then why do you clowns lock factories yet want to retain tyron under your SXR badge. Thats question 1. Your traders must use Tyron so keep tyron locked and open up eastgate etc.

2. No one needs to be doing anything in the UG of an Uplink so again this can be unlocked no?

3. Choose a lab or two and open them to the community. let others get the use considering how difficult it can be to find some traders on a night time.

So from a pr stand point maybe theres a good reason your finding enemies in your underground. I haven't found any in mine.

maybe you should all put the LE back in ? (Flame retardant suit is now firmly on)

Dropout
25-02-14, 13:19
Calling someone out on the clans they have been in isnt the biggest or smartest move when most of us these days play under many different alts.

Plus or minus 6-7 years. I highly doubt anyone has played solidly through that period especially through the turmoil this game has been through. If anyone legitimately has i say hats off to you. Even the most hardcore that played during the 2% terra times.

Except for the 6month (give or take a month) where 95% of the PvP'ing population were naughty (Read: Playing APU's that could 2-3shot everyone), I have played for all that time ;)


Now on to todays NC. Yes biggin has a dev. You died from it at Nemesis on sunday perhaps it was. The eastgate/soliko/nemesis fights. Aim/Walker/Alton/Brand/Yourself (madeinmurika?) were there. The last fight before made said he had to go work which coincidentally we won yet some time later that day/night had the op hacked.

So everyone cries ninja. everyone cries in general.

The fact remains more ops should be open and while it can be argued this is a dev issue and not a community issue given the current progress on the game we as a collective felt it most appropriate to take it upon ourselves to push the envelope somewhat and challenge the community.

1. If its such a major drama to have enemies in the UG then why do you clowns lock factories yet want to retain tyron under your SXR badge. Thats question 1. Your traders must use Tyron so keep tyron locked and open up eastgate etc.

2. No one needs to be doing anything in the UG of an Uplink so again this can be unlocked no?

3. Choose a lab or two and open them to the community. let others get the use considering how difficult it can be to find some traders on a night time.

So from a pr stand point maybe theres a good reason your finding enemies in your underground. I haven't found any in mine.

maybe you should all put the LE back in ? (Flame retardant suit is now firmly on)
I dont think you really get the open UG problem.. I dont think any of us cares if random people uses the OP/UG.. The problem is when there's a whole enemy opteam down there, when the first layer goes down..

If you havent had it happen to you (yet), its probably because you have JUST started being active in the "OP-scene".
I've had it happen to me, in several different clans..

Load_HeavyLoad
25-02-14, 13:54
simple answer (simple because I know nothing about coding) let clans to be able to close UGs separately to the GRs thus opening the map but not allowing attacking clans to crowd UGs which they are able to under the current rules.

Mace you talk alot of business but all you do is what SXR have done since NC2 hang around like a bad smell and make a lot of noise offering nothing when it comes to showing stones

BlueRobot
25-02-14, 17:16
You guys can still rent outposts if you want any.

gstyle40
25-02-14, 17:31
simple answer (simple because I know nothing about coding) let clans to be able to close UGs separately to the GRs thus opening the map but not allowing attacking clans to crowd UGs which they are able to under the current rules.

Mace you talk alot of business but all you do is what SXR have done since NC2 hang around like a bad smell and make a lot of noise offering nothing when it comes to showing stones

so now this has turned into name calling and insults? oh and u are? my point from my above post is this guy (william) wants to make a post basically saying hey we will ninja ops for whatever rp reason he wants, cool no prob we will defend ps say hi to sxr member fork for us (in good fun) then theres the




At the end of the day 17th is the latest sheep clan. Whether they have been here for a while or not you are just the latest big thing. SXR getting involved just proves the point. SXR didnt amount to much in the op scene the last few years for any number of reasons and you guys went over to 17th is exactly what I mean. Just another group moving to a big clan. How many have we seen come and go down the last decade? SXR on pluto, FF, DarK, uTs and sYn on Uranus, The Cartel and NAT on Saturn, Terraists on Terra.... Soldierz (remember them lol?) and countless others down the years all had all the ops.... where did it get them? Nowhere really. Look at the game now, 5v5 is a big op fight these days. We used to be 12 vs the server back in the day.


to which i responded. then i get called out by doc for callin out clans which i didnt do, william did the name droppin, then he wanted to drop a lil recent knowledge on me like i didnt know i died. to be perfectly honest, i dont even remember who killed me, biggin was never our target it was powerpunch cuz he did massive damage to everybody. and so after us rolling u 3 v 7 at eastgate and killing u all includeing your ppu's we beat u 5 v7 at soliko. and then we lost at nemesis finally because u decided to have both your ppu's and some dev tank stay on me constantly debuff and deheal until i was out of stam and psi. great tactic had i saw it coming i would have packed my qb full of boosters :/ so i died and went to work. at the end of the day we hacked it back because it was a ninja to begin with. u defended it well while i was there, once i left i have no idea what happend. and yes doc as walker said up there I too have been here the whole time never taken more than a month away on terra titan or any other server.

all im saying is this, we have been here fighting against all those clans william named above, and the ones on titan that he didnt name, but the same guys playing in them. regs hasnt been active in all the years that weve been here playin, and if u were alts in other clans thats cool podna, we all have alts in strange places, i know i do lol. sxr took a break during the aformentioned time of the apu 1 and 2 shot killing everbody era, but i stayed and played in other clans meeting other people, sup juggs, wowzors, alton ect. and kept on playin cuz i lov nc lol. so i guess now regs wants us to let them ninja all the ops we fought for so they can be open to the free world and everybody will have joyous pvp events at them where flowers will pop out instead of plasma....i saw the rp thing, i was willing to roll with it lol but in normal william and doc style they wanna pile on people with words on a screen. talk is cheap fellas, bring it! cuz at the end of the day u both know my clan will smack yours everyday and twice on sunday. maybe this is your recruitment thread...who knows...but talk is cheap...and next time ill play a fighter and show u how to use said dev.....and u will remember my name, thats a promise

and heavy load.....who are u again? lol

William Antrim
25-02-14, 17:37
Mace you and I are miles apart in understanding the root of the problem.

The last time I was here owning ops was indeed around 7 years ago when I was in sxr and left to form my own clan. We held most of the ops on the server for a brief period.

Unfortunately I left to go serve a higher power at that time and so couldn't be on nc as much.

Regardless of any of that the point I am making still stands.

The gr rules of today are archaic, outdated and need an overhaul.

This is not a penis measuring thread. Too many of you guys see it that way already. Until you get over that we won't get any good discussion.

If we wanted to be sheep we could easily throw our lot in with tsunami here and instantly form a clan which would pound for pound dominate 17th squad. We didn't.

We want to keep our identity and bring some fresh opposition to the game.

You guys talk about how it sucks having opposition in your ug. Go to a different one? Like we used to back in the day! Buff from the clan apt?

Set your new apt access so you all go from one apt in p1? These are all valid solutions.

Let's put our penises away and discuss this properly shall we? We can be men about it or we can be children but mace, take a deep breath before you rejoin the conversation please.

You aren't in position really to call anyone out currently.

Load_HeavyLoad
25-02-14, 18:00
so now this has turned into name calling and insults? oh and u are? my point from my above post is this guy (william) wants to make a post basically saying hey we will ninja ops for whatever rp reason he wants, cool no prob we will defend ps say hi to sxr member fork for us (in good fun)

If you could open your eyes and look beyond the "OMG ZERG" "OMG NINJA" mindset that so many people seem to have and read the whole post rather than just selective reading, the whole point of leaving everything open is to give everyone free access to the map, I'd call this less of a RP reason and more of a 'benefits all players/member base/newbie experience'. Giving it an RP reason just adds a bit more than saying a lot of people are fucked off because they and new players consistently complain about how locked up the map is


I too have been here the whole time never taken more than a month away on terra titan or any other server.

well done, e-peen +1", my forum joined date is a year older than yours - what do either of these pointless facts have to do with the topic?


and heavy load.....who are u again? lol

i'm no one really I played uranus, then the english speaking op-fighting clans on terra, even the disliked ones when they were the only ones available, started up on Titan, got a job and had to back off the gaming slightly, I could list all my characters and I'm sure you would have heard of some but once again length of e-peen doesnt add to the validity of an argument except for maybe those who dont have the product between the ears to give a sensible opinion

William Antrim
25-02-14, 18:11
Mace you contradict yourself too much for reasonable discussion. Your facts are wrong at best and made up at worst. I wish we had 7 players on tbh. We had only 5 and almost all of those engagements were 5v5 - except one where we got caught out at Eastgate as we only had 3 there as the others were afk. We even commented on the fact that you brought even numbers which was a surprise so let that one go.

As for the fights, yeah sure drop me a pm. Let's fight. As for the rest of the thread let's stay on topic. I'm not name dropping. Don't need to.

Reputations don't mean shit to me. Yours mine or anyone else's. I'm all about the good of the game.

I haven't joined any of the sheep clans lately because of that. I'm happy to be the under dog. I'll await your pm. :)

gstyle40
25-02-14, 18:25
i love it, william yea, you are a work of art. put away penises lets let it go and discuss like men.....the this

You aren't in position really to call anyone out currently.

just to keep it going. work of art i tell u. hey, u do you bruh, mace is gonna be just fine. u have no idea what position im in lol so u sit here and type like u do. so as i said earlier, u do u. go recruit, or sheep or do whatever it is that u feel is necessary to compete. man for man...child please...we fight that tsu clan regularly, they are the very reason the ops are closed lol. please just be quiet and stop typing the uninformed nonsense u keep typing about todays nc. start op fighting win some fights and if u feel the need to keep doin the undercover flaming u have been doin here after that, than by all means, u earned it. but until that time...bring it :/

Load_HeavyLoad
25-02-14, 18:31
https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/85974/NotSureIfEnglish.png

gstyle40
25-02-14, 18:35
If you could open your eyes and look beyond the "OMG ZERG" "OMG NINJA" mindset that so many people seem to have and read the whole post rather than just selective reading, the whole point of leaving everything open is to give everyone free access to the map, I'd call this less of a RP reason and more of a 'benefits all players/member base/newbie experience'. Giving it an RP reason just adds a bit more than saying a lot of people are fucked off because they and new players consistently complain about how locked up the map is



well done, e-peen +1", my forum joined date is a year older than yours - what do either of these pointless facts have to do with the topic?



i'm no one really I played uranus, then the english speaking op-fighting clans on terra, even the disliked ones when they were the only ones available, started up on Titan, got a job and had to back off the gaming slightly, I could list all my characters and I'm sure you would have heard of some but once again length of e-peen doesnt add to the validity of an argument except for maybe those who dont have the product between the ears to give a sensible opinion

ok, so until i know who u are, im not gonna respond, forum join dates dont mean anything i played this game for 2 years all by myself before even learning of the forums for what thats worth....so u are on ignore until i know who u are....pm me if u like im good wit it. then we can have a convo like men. late

gstyle40
25-02-14, 18:37
pile it on ladies, pile it on lol i expect this

Load_HeavyLoad
25-02-14, 18:38
my forum joined date is a year older than yours - what do either of these pointless facts have to do with the topic?


forum join dates dont mean anything

at least we agree on something, from which servers would you like my char names, although the obvious one is in my forum name

gstyle40
25-02-14, 18:47
Mace you contradict yourself too much for reasonable discussion. Your facts are wrong at best and made up at worst. I wish we had 7 players on tbh. We had only 5 and almost all of those engagements were 5v5 - except one where we got caught out at Eastgate as we only had 3 there as the others were afk. We even commented on the fact that you brought even numbers which was a surprise so let that one go.
no my memories are sound, we started with 3 at eastgate where we killed u all walker, brand, and myself on ppu. dont know if any of u were dual logged, could have been but i know there were more than 5 characthers there. then alton logged on and the 4 of us went to soliko where we lost, u had the ug, and outnumbered us by a little but i was the only ppu and had to rez and hack lol. so we regrouped at eastgate and killed like 3 of u there on our way to soliko and julius logged on and came a lil later. so we had 5 and we won, then some logged off, some logged on and we ran to nemesis where we had a long and good fight going until your 2 ppu's decided to go after me, the only ppu lol fine tactic but your other guys were on the ground as well. i only died because i was out of stam and psi. my memories are sound my friend case and point look at the map. im done wit this thread, do what u want, dm or pm me ingame if u wish. guess ill start recording fights like tino for times like this lol....im out have fun

William Antrim
25-02-14, 19:50
stop posting. Your complete lack of paragraphs is too hard to read, the nonsensical drivel is derailing an otherwise good thread and generally you are just making yourself look really stupid.

The point of the thread has nothing to do with the events of the other day. You are far too narrow minded to realise it today clearly. Hence the take a deep breath comment. You are making it personal because you are clearly wound up.

The contradictions are flowing and it really doesnt actually matter. One fight is nothing. One battle won or lost doesnt make a blind bit of difference to anyone. The fundamental reason behind the thread has clearly escaped you so I ask you respectfully to please just stop now.

Noone cares.

At the end of the day the thread started out with a small bit of roleplay (hence the subforum) to discuss a very controversial issue - the psychology of control and its negative effect on the game and its population.

If you were not in said sheep clan would you feel the same way? if we had not had those few skirmishes the other day would you even post?

this thread is not about the events of sunday or whatever day. It is about the long term future of neocron.

If you're too blind to see that then I dont know how else I can explain it, but please if you do reply again - just hit enter once in a while "brah".

Noone cares who won or who lost.

Manuel Moonez
25-02-14, 20:42
I didn't want to get involved in this thread in the first place, but it's neocron and everybody has the urge to get into the flame wars.
It feels like the OP is full of contradictions. And why post it in the RP Forum when none of it is RP? Stay in character or leave it, but don't weave in and out as you please, mixing RP and game discussion on the same page. And judging from the mail you sent my buddy you're not that interested in RP anyway.
http://i.imgur.com/acIuXsp.jpg

About OP security i have to say that we atleast try to have special GRs like Regant open for all to enjoy. And i don't recall a single occasion where someone asked politely on the chat for a GR and was refused. The rest is just propaganda.

brand
25-02-14, 20:49
so i sum up what you said. you guys could destroy us in fights but you just want to, you just prefer to attack us when we have 0-2 people on, for the sake of neocron?^^
btw good thread you can praise yourself for it

Dropout
25-02-14, 21:05
stop posting. Your complete lack of paragraphs is too hard to read, the nonsensical drivel is derailing an otherwise good thread
Sorry mate, but not a single thing in this thread has been "good"..
All it has been, is an attack on 17th, pretty much.

And dont defend this by "RP", because theres zero RP here tbh.

Ivan Eres
25-02-14, 22:08
I think this thread shows William's desparation regarding the GR situation for the OPs. He has written a lot about it in the last year and suggested solutions for it already too.

Maybe it would really be a good thing if GRs could not be closed anyway.

It's stupid if it hinders gameplay, especially for new or returning players who want to explore the wastes or hunt and level.

Alternatively there could be a lot more of public GRs / OPs across the wastes, to make the traveling and exploring easier.

Regards

Divide
25-02-14, 22:16
I haven't read this thread, but I am dismayed that the middle finger is missing now because it was damn hilarious. Bottom line though is that GR's will be closed as long as they can be closed. To think the opposite will take place is foolish, to think your interest in continued ninjahacking night after night after night is not going to wane is also foolish. I encourage you to shake up the OP scene though, so more power to ya.

William Antrim
25-02-14, 22:57
I think this thread shows William's desparation regarding the GR situation for the OPs. He has written a lot about it in the last year and suggested solutions for it already too.

Maybe it would really be a good thing if GRs could not be closed anyway.

It's stupid if it hinders gameplay, especially for new or returning players who want to explore the wastes or hunt and level.

Alternatively there could be a lot more of public GRs / OPs across the wastes, to make the traveling and exploring easier.

Regards

I am pleased you can see the passion.

As for 17th - sorry gents but shit got flung on both sides. I am more than happy to admit that.

The thread was written in this forum because it has less chance of A) being edited for flaming as this is the "in game" forum and B) because it is a chance to actually have a discussion.

Unfortunately some people took offence to some of the things I wrote in the original thread. I guess using the term sheep clan was seen as derogatory. It was not originally intended in that way, but rather to be the latest in a long line of clans that the population gravitates towards like sheep. A descriptive analogy. Not a flame.

The first post - since edited - was probably the most immature reply I could possibly expect. From there we had mace windu weighing and missing the point by a country mile and continuing on in his own way. I admire the passion and respect the loyalty but it takes two to start an argument and he did nothing to calm a fairly volatile issue.

Dont get me wrong - I never expected this to be flowers and rainbows. I knew it would get some hot replies, thats why it got selected to be posted in this forum in the first place. It is the place for that stuff. There are always opposing viewpoints. It is one of the things that makes the forum so great, the passion that comes in the posting.

Thanks for not reading anything I actually wrote Brand and just diving right in, that really helped no end.

Manuel please highlight the contradictions for me? I am keen to hear your opinions.

Calm down and take a breath guys then post replies. The shit flinging can stop because mace will hopefully calm down now.

Massaker
26-02-14, 00:09
I only see two OP's controlled by Regulators. Did something went wrong? :P

At the moment it's only a Thread without any impact to the map.

Oh and please change your emblem on your banner. You are no longer a City Admin and dismissed dishonorably ;)

William Antrim
26-02-14, 00:25
Who are you exactly?

Gdelic
26-02-14, 00:55
Being in politics is like being a football coach. You have to be smart enough to understand the game, and dumb enough to think it’s important.


i guess that sums it up........

-AB-
26-02-14, 01:24
less talking .. more shooting ...

Doc Holliday
26-02-14, 04:02
I didn't want to get involved in this thread in the first place, but it's neocron and everybody has the urge to get into the flame wars.
It feels like the OP is full of contradictions. And why post it in the RP Forum when none of it is RP? Stay in character or leave it, but don't weave in and out as you please, mixing RP and game discussion on the same page. And judging from the mail you sent my buddy you're not that interested in RP anyway.
http://i.imgur.com/acIuXsp.jpg

About OP security i have to say that we atleast try to have special GRs like Regant open for all to enjoy. And i don't recall a single occasion where someone asked politely on the chat for a GR and was refused. The rest is just propaganda.


Are you telling me that isnt roleplay? If the original had actually been a realistic attempt at roleplay, addressed to me by name i would have responded in kind. Instead it came across as a pretty lame arse threat trying to say we are 17th we are the big boys on this server and we will "permit" you to hold some ops. Recent history has shown this to be fairly accurate (from game stuff not the forum war currently raging in this thread)

Granted bd and cm have never gotten along so there is always that to use as a source of vitriol and bile to spew forth at one and other (for the less educated among you that means smack talk)

On the subject of ninja hacking and ops etc in the thread and in response to massakers post. Our "peak" in terms of activity is unfortunately during the early hours on the morning in the northern hemisphere. usually around 9-12pm going up till maybe 3-4pm. We actually struggle to field a team during the real euro peak times when you guys have finished your rl stuff and are available for games (i think for some that should include homework on how to write and structure a post but i will just toss that out there and see if it is taken heed of.)

I assume most of 17th are still at school/uni/work/asleep. We do actually check the com for fights before hacking. The nemesis eastgate etc fights were a direct result of Julius's half arsed attempt at roleplay (i expected better) and in fairness despite some of the people playing with monitors that have stained glass over the top of them (distorting what actually happened) it was a lot of fun. It was also beneficial to get the rust off of certain people and show others just how we expect to pvp and whats required internally because fighting an opponent you dont know is more beneficial than a few rounds in neofrag to battle test.

As it is the boot has now been put in on this thread by a number of people. All of them are thinly veiled insults or blatant ones in response to williams diatribe.


You all failed to answer my points on page one listed points 1,2,3.

Anyway.

Enough said on the matter. The only person who has really been able to rise above it all as the neutral party is ivan. the rest is a bunch of horse shit and ego's clashing against each other.

I would be intrigued to see if any of you can actually try and stimulate some reasonable discussion from now on and yes i too am aware i have thrown in some insults in this post but i think some of them were justified too.

on a final note. according to a message i received earlier 17th ninjad krupp so massaker i think this thread has had its impact on the map.

give me some ideas about when your peak times are when most of you log on so i know what time to wake up in the morning here in beautiful australia.

I think some words need to be had and i need to make a deposit of the 150k. plasma ammo will be the currency.

William Antrim
26-02-14, 04:56
maybe we should just move to Tsunami and make the op fighting scene even more stagnant than it already is..... [/endsarcasm]

:)

Seriously though, do you guys actually want more people to fight or would you rather own the ops and sit around back-slapping one another and telling each other how wonderful you are?

Do you gauge a clan on the strength of its players or the amount of ops it takes and can hold?

What is the true measure of worth here?

I ask these questions not as a flame but as a genuine curiosity because these same tired old arguments get recycled over and over when this type of discussion comes about. In nc1 on Uranus there was a huge server wide alliance against a specific clan and that clan went right on ahead and beat the alliance into the ground and took the ops just because they could. They didnt care if they didnt have them the next day. It was never about "owning" the ops because the clan leader had the foresight to recognise that you couldnt possibly "police" the op control unless you had a dozen plus people logged in around the clock. For the server wide alliance this was a much easier feat because they just contacted one another out of pure hatred for said clan and attempted to make sure they owned as many of the ops as possible, the nationalistic pride I mentioned in my original post and the pig-headed arrogance flowed through each of them. Still they came in their hordes to defend "their ops" and still they got beat.

Are they any better or any worse than those people who are left? Who can honestly tell? It would depend on your point of view. The entire position is subjective at the very least.

Lots of you probably hate me for posting this thread. Some of you may have disliked my opinionated posting already, some of you might even be snide enough to say you don't care. I can see I have clearly touched a few nerves by the amount of feb 14 join dates that are here coupled with single digit posts.

You have to ask yourselves why was the thread made though? what purpose does it serve? It is the op scene in nc in a nutshell at present. The problem of GR locking summed up in a single post. Inflammatory yes definitely. True though all the same.

If it generates some thought however and maybe makes people think a little differently then it has done its job.


the forum is a place for discussion, not flame war. I can sit back and write out a long and thought provoking post easily. I am blessed with that ability and I am mild mannered enough to know that I can calmly argue my points without getting too heated in any discussion.

As i said, I knew this post was going to cause a few nerves to get frayed. But at least it got you thinking. :)

brand
26-02-14, 12:30
wow this thread continues. don t know why. what you guys did is moving the flaming from ooc to the forums. this thread is just stupid. it won t change anything in game. it just looks like antrim is trying to say something smart and trying desperatly to call this rp but this just leads nowhere. since we have different peak times this "discussion" could continue via ingame mails then we don t have to bother whole nc with this.
why i say this ? for me this thread is just about julius mail. he as a merc tried to sell some ops. now you are complaing that 17th are just acting strong but are just weak. noone can rly own outposts etc. and antrim sure has selfconfidence he is non stop praising himself and his smart thread.
if you guys want to fight then it s good. when it happens that both both clans got people on and we can fight then it s good.
yeah yeah this thread wasn t meant to be flamed, everyone is stupid and doesn t understand your posts . these flames are just a response to the original post which also means your post had no potential to become a good discussion since no real discussion started.

-AB-
26-02-14, 12:51
less talking .. more shooting ...

/sign

Dropout
26-02-14, 13:56
IMO, where it went wrong was calling 17th a sheep-clan..
Pretty sure that Aim and myself are the last two (OP-active) members that got recruited.
We even have said to a few people, who also wanted to join, that it would be better if they joined another clan.

The main reason why I joined 17th was because I was tired of the uselessness of AD (waiting for an hour between OPfights, because people needs reps and shit like that.. Come on..), and I didnt approve of the ninja hacking they did at the time.
17th was the only choice at the time. Since I personally need a clan that 1: Speaks english, 2: Is active at the same hours as myself.
And I stay in the clan, because I enjoy it very much (we have some awesome members - when you know them).

William Antrim
26-02-14, 14:45
Thanks for the insight brand. Can you see the bigger picture? Genuine question not a flame.

Walker I did clarify the use of the word - the context of the sheep theory etc. I also did apologise to you if any offence was caused.

I think that some people just can't take a step back and look at the big picture.

Load_HeavyLoad
26-02-14, 16:33
little picture - OMGZ NINJAAA

big picture - more noob friendly experience / makes for easier more fun gaming due to easier travelling (downside is enemies in UGs but there are other ways to combat that i.e buffing in a clan app / adjacent op)

Gunshifty
26-02-14, 16:48
Having all of your outposts locked to GR/C does nothing to promote the freedom of exploration in Neocron and does nothing for the new players who want to experience life in this wonderful game of ours.


If you only have one person online thats cool, I hope he wants a fight.

If you have nobody online - unlucky bro thats a cool story. Its not a ninja as you dont "own" the op. There is no bill of sale and no legal rights dictating your ownership. You only own it until I come along and successfully hack it. See above. I will do that.


Sorry for joining in this banter sheep/egotistical thread banter bullshit, but I was too busy shooting folks (even if that person is myself.. the winding argument has a mind of it's own). So let's begin.

OMG! Bold usage in a forum thread?

You, (regulators - in case I have to point it out) had 3 on last night to defend Krupp Factory, but you guys were a no show. Even if it was one guy triple logged, I still saw at least 1 online.

"If you only have one person online thats cool, I hope he wants a fight. "

Clearly, you guys don't even want to fight. Let alone defend your op 3 vs 5 (we, 17th Squad, had 5) @ Krupp but the only person to show up was Kurse/Envyme from Tsunami clan (Not you, ==> regulators).

How does any of this relate to this thread?

Well I'm glad you asked. People can go on tangents, but I would just like to reply to William since this was his "smart" idea.

"Having all of your outposts locked to GR/C does nothing to promote the freedom of exploration in Neocron and does nothing for the new players who want to experience life in this wonderful game of ours. "

Promote the freedom of exploration? I'm sorry, I didn't know we were a marketing team for all of Neocron. Freedom of exploration doesn't need to be promoted when it exists in plain sight. Want to explore? Start at A_08 and walk. Want to explore a random sector? Find the nearest Venture Warp. Want to explore but can't? Tell the developers to fix BWD (which, they are pretty good about fixing, they just need a quick poke ;) ) From an RP standpoint, i'm no expert, but i'm pretty sure Black Dragon is the least qualified faction to promote freedom of exploration. It doesn't take a prodigious scientist to realize that no faction is really qualified to promote freedom of exploration instead of maybe NEXT? Hmm.. Just throwing it out there.

You (William Antrium) may not care for op fighting tactics, which includes using your own UG (Underground, for those folks who use 'UGs' as another name of Unressed Tech Parts) for buffs. You may not even know what it feels like to defend an op by yourself. If you did, you'd know how beneficial having the Underground locked is. But oh wait, refer to above. Even with 3 online, you didn't even defend (which btw is easier to do than attacking an op). I guess you'll find out if you do join the op scene.. Trial by fire O_O..

But wait, you forgot to address the whole "ninja" op thingy

True story. Go ahead and ninja ops, you'll just be like the aforementioned group of clans you've included in your posts. You'll give us BS reasons [@Divide: "can't control my kids"] or [@AfterDark: "hax, you cheat, blah blah, hacker!"]. The reason why 17th owns the ops we do is because those prior to owning ops decided to quit playing the game. Just look at the new clan, Anarchy Breed. They took the remainder of LG's ops after we took the rest because LG was no longer in the op scene. What i'm getting at here is that there are justified reasons as to why some ops are to be ninja'd. If it hasn't gotten through your head, let me explain:

LG/TASA - no longer in the op scene. No longer need use for their ops... right?

Well how do we get TASA and LG to come play? --- How do we resurrect the op scene?

Well our way to resurrect the op scene was to take 1 outpost a day from the above clans until they came back and took it back. All we ever wanted was a fight. And it worked at least a couple times. I can recall a ton of LG logging on, on a Monday and they gave us a pretty darn good fight. (Just wish they would recruit and get more op ready fighters).

So LG and TASA, no longer in the picture. Sad story... so what's left is Tsuanmi clan, and 17th Squad fighting each other, which is not all that terrible, we're pretty classy folks..when we want to be.. But this is a welcome for others to come fight. The only reason why 17th owns ops is for others to come and poke us for fights. Don't have Syncon? That's fine, come attack an op that suits your GR list (i.g. Regants). The point is, we're not afraid to lose, we lose, we win, it doesn't matter. What matters is having competition in the op scene which like Divide has put it, "all the power to ya".




So in conclusion, I hope I get to fight you guys, yesterday was my first attempt, but it just ended with about 9 guys from Tsunami clan taking the op.


Sincerely,
Ender Reznik
17th Squad
SXR

Edit1: Forgot to include that you Regulators should really update your signature. Going from CityAdmin to Black Dragon just looks bad, especially if you're trying to RP. How do you explain upholding justice in one faction, to promoting shady business operations in another faction?

Edit2: "I can see I have clearly touched a few nerves by the amount of feb 14 join dates that are here coupled with single digit posts."

Forgot to point out how William loves his ego stroked because he points out others "forum join date" like that means something. William, just because you have over 3000 forum posts, doesn't make you significant. If you think it does, then have quite the largest ego here then. And if you haven't gotten it through your head, no one likes egotistical !@#s.

ancient
26-02-14, 17:15
Except for the 6month (give or take a month) where 95% of the PvP'ing population were naughty (Read: Playing APU's that could 2-3shot everyone), I have played for all that time ;)

I dont think you really get the open UG problem.. I dont think any of us cares if random people uses the OP/UG.. The problem is when there's a whole enemy opteam down there, when the first layer goes down..

If you havent had it happen to you (yet), its probably because you have JUST started being active in the "OP-scene".
I've had it happen to me, in several different clans..

... And done it to quite a few clans too :P

Doc Holliday
26-02-14, 18:10
I love how something as insignificant as a forum sig is being bandied about like its a cardinal sin.

Thats my only input while i wait for someone to say something worth discussing.

brand
26-02-14, 18:40
hmm one of the lg guy said you should remove your ca banner doc. maybe he said it because lg is ca. and you are bd now, enemys of ca. and maybe antrim should try a new start and try to say again what he wants without his i m an veteran player shit and how great his thread is. when the thread isn t going as planned don t just wait and do niothing try to say it again but in a different way.
the middlefinger was the best answer until now. i just don t like how he says what he wants and not that he says what he wants.

Gunshifty
26-02-14, 18:42
I love how something as insignificant as a forum sig is being bandied about like its a cardinal sin.

Thats my only input while i wait for someone to say something worth discussing.

Not to take away from my main post, post #43

but..

Just wanted to point out that


Oh and please change your emblem on your banner. You are no longer a City Admin and dismissed dishonorably ;)

Was pointing out the signature because Massaker pointed it out, who if you didn't know, is part of LG (CityAdmin). Hence the "You are no longer City Admin and dismissed dishonorably". If you feel that I pointed it out "like its a cardinal sin" then I wouldn't have emphasized it toward the end of my post.

But I digress once again. Doc you stated "You all failed to answer my points on page one listed points 1,2,3. ".

I followed it up by making a "constructive" post to which you only replied with something I had thrown into the 'edit' section of my post.

I do believe I addressed a few of your points, but you have the arrogance by reply that you're still waiting for someone to say something worth discussing. How compelling.

ancient
26-02-14, 18:50
I think this thread shows William's desparation regarding the GR situation for the OPs. He has written a lot about it in the last year and suggested solutions for it already too.

Maybe it would really be a good thing if GRs could not be closed anyway.

It's stupid if it hinders gameplay, especially for new or returning players who want to explore the wastes or hunt and level.

Alternatively there could be a lot more of public GRs / OPs across the wastes, to make the traveling and exploring easier.

Regards

Solution's pretty simple, at least from the perspective of a non coder type. Just split the control of the GR and the UG.

brand
26-02-14, 18:51
in my opinion it s fine that op grs are closed. when they were all open there would be too many grs over the map. but like 2 more public grs on the map wouldn t hurt. it s k when you have to walk a bit to reach your destination. and vehciles would be more interesting for noobs. then they would have a goal to earn enough money for one and then cruise proudly around the wastelands with it. but i just don t like the jones quad. it make for the noobs much to easy to get a vehicle and it can t even get destroyed.

ancient
26-02-14, 18:55
simple answer (simple because I know nothing about coding) let clans to be able to close UGs separately to the GRs thus opening the map but not allowing attacking clans to crowd UGs which they are able to under the current rules.



^^ just read this, sry for repeating it ... but it's right

Doc Holliday
26-02-14, 20:20
I do believe I addressed a few of your points, but you have the arrogance by reply that you're still waiting for someone to say something worth discussing. How compelling.

I cant see where. i must have missed something. thats why i asked again. I did read your post thoroughly.

I will refer you back to my second post before the thread devolved in to a shit fling. We can be men or we can be pricks with a few mouse clicks. im clicking the man button.

now which part of your post did you refer to the points? Im not following it. Please elaborate because obviously i have misread or misunderstood.

i removed the sig too. In the interest of rp.

Faid
26-02-14, 20:29
Sig edited because 17th said so.

You have been policed by the 17th squad

I See Blue
26-02-14, 21:11
Eeeeeeek-a-Mouse

Since I have been forced to sunny Brazil for a month or so I donīt really know whatīs going on in-game atm. However, I would like to pitch in in this most charming of posts.

There are some interesting things to discuss here. Letīs start with the base of the problem as Will sees it.

Closed GRs mean nonaccess to map and less chance for people to explore/play the game

Will claims the most noble of intentions, and indeed invokes the most used accusation in this game (apart from OMG haxx), you are ruining it for the noobs/new players/returned players. Now, the returned players will be used to this, closed GRs have been an issue since time first began in Neocron. Once we were allowed to close GRs, we did, as a safety measure.

As for new players, I hardly see why we should wrap them in blankets and hand them everything on a plate. The game has quite a few open GRs, which can be used to go reasonably quickly to any place on the map. This, combined with the access ASG, should provide a lovely adventure for new players, letting them explore the map instead of just going to Sewers--->Aggies---->MB---->Warbots/Firemobs/Regants, like i see most old players suggest to new people. Instead they will roam around a bit in the lovely graphics from a decade ago.

I do agree that some access to a factory and a lab should be had, and there has been most of the time. My tradeskilling clan is not in CM, and when I am home I often open Jankins or Chester Lab. And if there isnīt one open, asking nicely for it to be opened will usually work.

All this for the good of the game stuff that William sprouts is really nonsense. If we want new players, give them advice for sure, help them out with gear, and let them explore the map and learn the realities of Neocron. Sometimes you have to run for a bit, or drive, but it is mostly experienced players who see this as a drag, for new ones, this is an adventure. So I really suspect this complaint is mostly because William wants to go somewhere but is to lazy to run/drive to it. But I canīt really know his motivation, just saying it isnīt the great obstacle he claims it is to new players.

I myself came back about 4 months ago, had no GR troubles at all. The open GRs (Crest Village/TH/Battledome/DRT/El Farid/DoY) gave me ample opportunity to get around the map.

Indeed, my levling and exploring was more hindered by people in clans such as the Regulators/AD and some other minor clans who killed lowbies and allied faction members.


The closing of GRs for battle

Only someone who doesnīt know the realities of OP-Fighting would ask for all OPs to be open. The UG is meant to be a positive asset for the defending clan, not a liability where enemies lurk in every corner. By opening the UG you are giving away a great tactical advantage, which is sorely needed when you are defending in lesser numbers. It loses some of itīs importance when the numbers are even, but it still saves on alot of rezzing which frees up PPU manpower, and indeed is very important if you are to play anything other than Spy and PPU. It allows other classes an alternative to just trying to die in a decent spot for rezzing.

If you have the power (those old and experienced neocrackheads you mentioned) to do something about it, just fucking do it

This post is nothing more than a threat against established clans, who are active and fighting so they can indeed chose which GRs are open and which are closed. Accusing us in 17th of being evil maphoggers is just foolish, we fight for ops, and we hold ops so we can fight.

As for us being a sheep clan, we have been asked by quite a few players if they could join. I have personally advised them that joining another clan would be better since it would mean we have more people to fight. Even referring them to specific people in TASA/LG/that city admin tsunami clan. So why we should be considered a sheep clan is beyond me.

If you donīt want to read the whole thing

OP GRs being closed doesnīt limit your movement, there are vehicles, open GRs and Venture warp to get you around. Stop being lazy and run. The amount of times I have been asked to open an OP that would save a runner maybe 4-5 mins of travelling, itīs just lazy. Just go there, and enjoy the trip.

All OPs canīt be opened since it ruins the defensive advantage a clan has in OP fights

And stop threatening, just do something about it if you donīt like it.

And Gunshifty does make sense in his posts,

Best Regards, your favourite armsdealer/impseller

Doc Holliday
27-02-14, 06:19
I think a better slogan " you have been MERKED by 17th squad" would have been better. British slang for a beating. If your gonna use slogans and stuff in the roleplay tense.

Good fights at jeriko Wednesday afternoon UK time. Im sure me sayin this flies in the face of perception of arrogance but there it is. Some of us can be mature and sensible and not just sign up to the thread to try and put the boot in.

William Antrim
27-02-14, 15:27
If you want constructive criticism and duscussion take the sarcasm out chaps. I can still see too much of it and it just makes me laugh.

The point of making the thread in the tone it was set up I'm is because I don't care about owning ops. I don't care if you ninja all of ours. Because I now say this you probably will.

That will just prove my point. The lack of a mature discussion ends with ninja-ing. I'm happy to do it back.

The sxr posters thus far generally have said nothing worth of discussion so I am gonna just ignore that.

I see blue - thank you for your contribution - we clearly see things in a very different light. However judging from your forum Sig you must have been here before the ug gr was in nc and we all used to run to fight from an adjacent op to defend?


I've absolutely no use for idle threats and jibes guys. I've been to war once for real. Internet warlords are nothing by comparison. I am here to promote - more fights, more fun and more nc for everyone.

You don't like my methods clearly but hey that's cool too. Your responses are hilarious so please take the anger and jibes out of them because you're not winning anything with them.

Gunshifty
27-02-14, 16:26
[ edited ]

Nidhogg
27-02-14, 16:44
The topic has drifted too far into personal insults. Please save that for in-game. Thanks.

Gunshifty
27-02-14, 16:56
The topic has drifted too far into personal insults. Please save that for in-game. Thanks.

Glad you actually read my post Nidhogg, and at least addressed it. More than some other people who shall not be named due to personal insulting ensuing.

Maybe people shouldn't involve personal experiences if they don't want to be personally insulted, just throwing it out there :lol:

Edit1: In response to Nidhogg's "Please save that for in-game."

I do think saving it for in-game could actually be a set-back due to new players who may have Help/OOC/Trade NC channels open possibly reading the personal insults being flung back and forth. Pretty toxic for the community if I may add. I am trying to promote a better neocron as well, but I rather not say anything that may be toxic/pollute the community.

It's better to not be right, than just obviously wrong. In other words, more harm done, than good.

I See Blue
27-02-14, 17:06
I like that you feel the need to include your real life war credentials, big up. Pointless big up though. Especially considering most war these days are definitely lacking in ethics and moral purpose. I served in the army too, panzer, rated as a NATO Elite Soldier, woohoo. Chose not to go into battle tho, since Iīm not such a big fan of killing people in foreign countries that really constitute no real threat to my own people or my friends and family. Instead I try to change people mindset, the pen is mightier than the sword and all that. But ok, you are a real life toughie, just saying, itīs really of no consequence here.

I do remember the golden days when to defend an OP you had to attack it, and you just had to hack once to take the damn op. It was a silly way of conducting war to say the least. But the past is the past, and that is one way we donīt want to be heading.

I still fail to see what your argument here is. You seem to think every GR being open would contribute to the game being more fun? That this in itself would create more fighting, more people etc. Yet you have provided no argument as to why you think this is so. Part of this game is trials and tribulations, making an effort, facing the challenges that it sets. I donīt want no easy as toast game, where nothing is challenging, and everyone can do everything. Thatīs WoW, fuck WoW.

How would having enemies in your UG in every fight promote opfighting? I canīt remember any instance of GR camping to be fun or making fights better.

Why is walking/driving such a horrible thing? It is damn fast getting around in observers/quads/revellers, why does having to travel 3 zones make the game less playable? We even have Regants as an example in game, people happily travel 3 zones from regants fortress (an op 17th have consistently kept open so people could get to Regants, often to our disadvantage in fights). Even if you sometimes have to travel a few more zones, there isnīt anyone who canīt afford a vehicle in this game, weīre so noobstarved people throw vehicles and weapons after new players. That fair enough when it is the first few items of gear, but an item earned is massively more valuable than one that is just thrown at you.

The areas of this game are easily accessible, The Open GRs give you access to the almost every zone, all you have to do is spend a couple of minutes running, it doesnīt take long travelling 2/3 zones. GR control is one of the rewards for joining in op fights, and there should be rewards for it.

By the way, you canīt really critizise others for not seeing your point when you havenīt really made a proper argument for how your suggestion would make everything better. All youīve made an argument for is that everything should be open to everyone always, which isnīt really what Neocron is about. Itīs mean, itīs unfair at times. Itīs Neocron. And we keep fighting and playing it.

Also, your attacks on other clans donīt really help, Iīve seen Regulators help noobs and players, Iīve seen 17th do the same, same with SXR. You want to keep the discussion interesting and reasonable, that ainīt the way to go.

There are better ways to encourage the community to grow:

Help noobs, show them the ropes, donīt just give them shit. Give them some adventure.

Create events that brings the community together.

Arrange hunting trips with other people, bring newish players and show them that this game can reward teamwork.

Stop the whining, complaining and insults. I mean, I like a good row as well as anyone, I have fun with it. But the amounts of bile some people throw around, how do they think this looks to new players?

And last, but not least, watch Bill and Tedīs Excellent Adventure, and learn that the most important thing is to be EXCELLENT TO EACHOTHER. Let the bro-hugging commence...

William Antrim
27-02-14, 18:09
I missed your point but you can pm me if you wish and I will address it.


As for your previous post I chose not to comment because youre just talking about events that happened yesterday or the day before. Next week noone will remember them. This thread is not about who won that fight there at XXX op or who owned who. It is about the game itself and changes to it.

Clearly you guys got stuck on a few comments - hence the "amount of people with feb 14 join dates" - that comment purely meant look at the people who joined the forum just to stick the boot in on this thread.

It has nothing to do with my ego or post count. You would know that if you read through my posting history. IF you just joined the forum however you wouldnt realise that, or if you just joined to stick the boot in then you definitely wouldnt realise.

I will let you continue to argue your point for now but please realise if you post in the same way I will just choose to ignore it. Its easier than getting moderated. :)

Gunshifty
27-02-14, 18:22
How does any of this relate to this thread?

Well I'm glad you asked. People can go on tangents, but I would just like to reply to William since this was his "smart" idea.

"Having all of your outposts locked to GR/C does nothing to promote the freedom of exploration in Neocron and does nothing for the new players who want to experience life in this wonderful game of ours. " - Said by William Antrim

Promote the freedom of exploration? I'm sorry, I didn't know we were a marketing team for all of Neocron. Freedom of exploration doesn't need to be promoted when it exists in plain sight. Want to explore? Start at A_08 and walk. Want to explore a random sector? Find the nearest Venture Warp. Want to explore but can't? Tell the developers to fix BWD (which, they are pretty good about fixing, they just need a quick poke ;) ) From an RP standpoint, i'm no expert, but i'm pretty sure Black Dragon is the least qualified faction to promote freedom of exploration. It doesn't take a prodigious scientist to realize that no faction is really qualified to promote freedom of exploration instead of maybe NEXT? Hmm.. Just throwing it out there.

You (William Antrium) may not care for op fighting tactics, which includes using your own UG (Underground, for those folks who use 'UGs' as another name of Unressed Tech Parts) for buffs. You may not even know what it feels like to defend an op by yourself. If you did, you'd know how beneficial having the Underground locked is.

But wait, you forgot to address the whole "ninja" op thingy

True story. Go ahead and ninja ops, you'll just be like the aforementioned group of clans you've included in your posts. You'll give us BS reasons [@Divide: "can't control my kids"] or [@AfterDark: "hax, you cheat, blah blah, hacker!"]. The reason why 17th owns the ops we do is because those prior to owning ops decided to quit playing the game. Just look at the new clan, Anarchy Breed. They took the remainder of LG's ops after we took the rest because LG was no longer in the op scene. What i'm getting at here is that there are justified reasons as to why some ops are to be ninja'd.

How do we resurrect the op scene?

Well our way to resurrect the op scene was to take 1 outpost a day from the above clans until they came back and took it back. All we ever wanted was a fight. And it worked at least a couple times. I can recall a ton of LG logging on, on a Monday and they gave us a pretty darn good fight.

So LG and TASA, no longer in the picture. But this is a welcome for others to come fight. The only reason why 17th owns ops is for others to come and poke us for fights. Don't have Syncon? That's fine, come attack an op that suits your GR list (i.g. Regants). The point is, we're not afraid to lose, we lose, we win, it doesn't matter. What matters is having competition in the op scene which like Divide has put it, "all the power to ya".
--

I missed your point but you can pm me if you wish and I will address it.


This thread is not about who won that fight there at XXX op or who owned who. It is about the game itself and changes to it.


Can't believe I have to simplify it down for some folks. But here ya go, short and sweet.

Doc Holliday
27-02-14, 19:51
While not really wanting to keep this thread alive any longer i do find the solution of venture warping as a viable method of travel pretty damn funny.

I have to say its almost like a few years ago when biglines used to say hey guys you dont need woc to compete in pvp as a spy just use a disruptor....... (if anyone remembers this?)

William Antrim
27-02-14, 21:17
I'm talking about the one that got edited. Quoting a wall of text with more sarcasm does nothing for the spirit of good discussion so I will continue to ignore the rest of that too.

BlueRobot
27-02-14, 21:35
[edit]

Gunshifty
27-02-14, 22:31
I'm talking about the one that got edited. Quoting a wall of text with more sarcasm does nothing for the spirit of good discussion so I will continue to ignore the rest of that too.

I understand guy, you still don't have a come back for that wall of text regardless if it's sarcasm or not. You're wrong and you won't admit it. The spirit of discussion is over, and just like the .gif that BlueRobot posted above my post, my job here is done. You haven't even addressed I See Blue's post to its entirety. You have said nothing of substance that benefits the community, you're basically just ignoring everyone's opinions in favor of your own.

William Antrim
27-02-14, 23:35
I addressed the pertinent points. The rest is rhetoric and hyperbole.

Faid
28-02-14, 01:40
I love how Baldur edits bluerobots GIF as spam but leaves this in as being ok lol awesome mod skills :p


https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/85974/NotSureIfEnglish.png

r3yka
28-02-14, 01:51
I See Blue wins, thread closed

Doc Holliday
28-02-14, 07:04
I See Blue wins, thread closed


clearly not though....

William Antrim
28-02-14, 17:33
You guys are still riled up then I can see. Not gonna get much mature discussion with that.

Faid having a moan about the staff again... Well I never saw that coming! :)

Faid
28-02-14, 18:42
Hey willie you see that " :p " it means I'm joking. And please stop all this noble crap as if you're so high and mighty. Your posts are wrought with backhanded snide insults, all the while you criticize people for giving it back. You can't have it both ways m8. I don't know if you even realize what you're doing when you post. You say you want a mature discussion without insults but literally the sentence before and the sentence after you insult us.

If anything, you've done more harm than good here for the proposed topic at hand. If you really want to have a discussion and make a difference I suggest you back off and let a cooler more rational mind convey your clans points. Perhaps Doc could do it, he seems less inclined to fling mud around. So for the good of neocron I implore you to stop all this because you really are only making it worse for the newbs who need those GR's open.

Doc Holliday
28-02-14, 18:52
Perhaps Doc could do it, he seems less inclined to fling mud around.

You just havent pissed me off sufficiently yet and i do feel the need to take the moral high ground on some occasions. You could say im the 2014 version of Quantumdelta :D

William Antrim
28-02-14, 23:52
Yeah youre probably right.

I think that text on a screen and tone of voice do not go hand in hand so well. I have not got mad about anything in this thread, despite some efforts to the contrary. However I am not sure what you mean about how I am damaging the experience for the noobs? You mean because I am getting on your clan's nerves with my holier than thou attitude? Because I am a self righteous prick youre gonna keep the GRs closed just to spite me?

Hey thats cool. But when you see populations dwindling it is kinda hard not to get annoyed with all of these Gr/Cs around.

My points are my own. Nothing to do with the clan. I speak as the individual. The rest of the guys dont really care about it, they just want to fight. This moral crusade is all me. Thats why you dont see too many of them joining in with the discussion.

I am more than happy to continue discussing it, post count and join date are irrelevant.

I see a situation that I argued against vehemently when it was proposed and thus far that situation has remained unchanged.

Nothing against the current support team but this is a problem that the population of the game can fix, it isnt something they need to worry about.

Sure using the UG is a valid tactic at op fighting, so is barreling said door way, using all stealthers, clipping around various scenery and all the other things that one side or another has complained about down the years. The thing is, those issues are being addressed now it seems. Fights are becoming A) fairer and B) more balanced.

It is taking time sure but it is happening.

The thing is it seems like too many people want to own all the ops but not actually work for that privilige.

17th has a few top players in it, good people and good fighters. If we are gonna talk about this all like adults and change the game for the better then we need to encourage pvp.

The more people killing one another is better for the economy of the game and better for the marketability of the game.

Everytime someone gets ganked they lose an item (zone dependent ofc) and this leads to: 1x Poker needing to poke them, 1x item purchase to replace said item, 1x GR fee to apt, 1x tip for Poker 1x GR fee back to the place they died to either recover the item or exact revenge and one more person who gets encouraged to pvp.

With more Outposts open MORE people get to spread out into the wastelands and see more of the game, other than CRP and Regants. How many noobs realise there are actually 3 chaos caves and 7 or 8 swamp caves?

More people spreading out means less chance of being ganked for said noobs as they can go to zones where the "evil pkers" dont go to and can level up in relative peace.

If the "evil pkers" then cant find people to kill in levelling spots they will need to sate their blood lust somewhere.

The simple answer is Pepper Park.

Ok so there is noone there, next idea. Op fight. Hack one layer and give the other clan a nudge. Even with one person online the last few times we have attacked a 17th Op within a short time more have suddenly appeared.

We have had some great fights with 3-5 vs the same number. At the current time that is all this game can achieve but the thing is the less fights people have the less time they are likely to log in. The more fights they have the more others are likely to hear about it.

It goes back to my original sheep comment - in a different form admittedly - If all of your mates are constantly chatting about this great fight they had the other day and totally owned those fuckers at CRP.... you are gonna get that urge to log in and see what its all about. Human curiosity will tug at you like the sordid hand of temptation. Before you know it you have had that black synch out of the UG and you've been welcomed back into NC by a face full of plasma at Jeriko.

Enough of the established clans these days have Facebook/whats app/telegram/teamspeak/forums/each others mobile numbers to communicate. Social media is prevalent in everything. Hell NC has a facebook group with a few of us in it! Probably more than one.

The point is - without the piss-taking/banter/shit-flinging/barbed comments at one another - we want more activity from the players.

The biggest lure for capped players is fights. Bottom line. More people have quit due to lack of fights than anything else.

I know there are the non-pvp players and I am not writing them off but all the people I know who quit say the same thing, nothing to do, noone to fight.

The original aim of this thread was to discuss that issue, somewhere along the line it got a little sarcastic yeah i admit and then that snowballed down into the flame war and several people wanting to stick the boot in but the message today remains the same.

More fights = more fun.

Torg
01-03-14, 02:05
goodness. why dont you guys just hack and open the damn OPs instead of flaming for days on the forum? if those clans wont show up to defend whats "theirs" after repeated warnings, that is. peace everyone.