Neallys
04-07-13, 01:59
PvP balance. Now that is something I have heard a lot these last few days. People are throwing a lot of interesting ideas all around with boosting APU/Melee, among other things. In my eyes and as someone who regularly does PvP, the balancing can happen in two separate ways
Way #1: Backtracking to the old NC1 system
With the old principle of putting a speedcap back from last patch, it got me thinking a little bit about what we expect from PvP. I do agree that both APU and Melee are missing a little something (and now rifles?). Most of you probably remember this, but back in Neocron 1 we had a principle in place with weapons which was a damage cap that could easily be reached with any class. Our current system doesn't have this cap (or it does but you can't reach it for end-game weapons). Now that's just a number that randomly popped up the corner of my head, but I believe the previous cap on weapons was of 178% maximum and could be reached with nothing more than 180 in Pistol-combat (to take that as an example).
This would allow a certain logic to take place, and that is everyone could be good with any weapon. I have seen plenty of PE coming back from Neocron 1 and trying things like PE Judge, Termi or slasher. I'm not saying these characters are rendered completely useless, but let's just say that I see a BHG/Ionic spy more efficient than a PE without PA using a judge. We are suffering a "Weapon <x> is too OP" situation because oly a certain range of weapon, once used with their sufficient amount of P-C (way much more than 180) will deal way much more damage than other weapons. But why can't one be good with a PE without PA using a Termi or a Judge? Well simply because of the skill amount.
I saw PvP in Neocron 1 to be very different from one player to another. We had more possibilities with weapons, you could see a good ROLH PE, Judge without PA, etc. and a player would choose his favorite weapon, the one he can best use to kill his opponents. To make it short: more PvP variety.
The way I see the previous AK/Dizzy nerf is that these weapons were best with high damage of R-C skill. Now we are also suffering from this with pistols. My idea of all rare weapons is that they could ALL be used in an effective way and the player would not be stopped by balancing problems. By backtracking into that old system we would give a chance to all classes and play-styles without having to try and balance each weapon individually.
Of course putting back this system will not fully fix the balancing problems, we would have to rework on weapons that are still too weak even when fully capped.
Way #2: Modifying stats on currently 'weak' weapons
A more simple approach would suggest to simply change the weapon stats to each a decent efficiency during fights, such as deleting the distance modifier of executioner/redeemer, and give them full damage at any distance. Adding more damage to the RoG/ROLH (but keep their close distance damage bonus) whilst keeping the system as it is, meaning the more you skill in your fighting skill the more damage you do.
I believe the weapons can easily be switched around and changed with the current knowledge the community as of them. The example of redeemer is pretty clear here, this distance malus ruins the weapon in PvP, it makes no sense. We know why each and every weapon that isn't fit for OP fighting/PvP is that way. And we can change them throughout making weapon categorized threads on the forums (just an idea- sub balancing forum parts as Pistols/Rifles/APU/Melee, etc). I believe doing individual tests on weapons and basing our ideas on the current PvP scheme will help us keep an easy balance between what we already know and what we want to change (We know BHG is a very good PvP/OP war weapon, do we need to nerf it? Or do we need to boost other weapons of the pistol category?)
This way we can easily address the Melee/APU status we have going on. I believe what we want is not to 'bring back APU and Melees' as overpowered as they were in NC1/NC2, but to make them efficient among other choices the player have, balancing at its best.
I have to admit that on my side I'm strongly for the first option here, bring back that 'softer cap' system and use our own modifications on the weapons which are a problem afterwards. A PE judge sucks now, but if a PE can cap a judge's damage with 180 P-C, then I do think we are dealing with a harder opponent. I want to see plasma, beam, rayguns and other types of weapon somewhat useful again, to offer more variation in PvP. This also applies to Melee/APU spells, some ideas I heard were good such as adding stacks to melee, or ignore holy shield on melee as well. APU I haven't thought much about it, more freq: perhaps slightly less damage, with stacks back on fire/por spells? You tell me!
Thank you for reading me!
tell me which way You think fits better for balancing PvP and/or suggest new ideas! I would love to read them
Neal.
Way #1: Backtracking to the old NC1 system
With the old principle of putting a speedcap back from last patch, it got me thinking a little bit about what we expect from PvP. I do agree that both APU and Melee are missing a little something (and now rifles?). Most of you probably remember this, but back in Neocron 1 we had a principle in place with weapons which was a damage cap that could easily be reached with any class. Our current system doesn't have this cap (or it does but you can't reach it for end-game weapons). Now that's just a number that randomly popped up the corner of my head, but I believe the previous cap on weapons was of 178% maximum and could be reached with nothing more than 180 in Pistol-combat (to take that as an example).
This would allow a certain logic to take place, and that is everyone could be good with any weapon. I have seen plenty of PE coming back from Neocron 1 and trying things like PE Judge, Termi or slasher. I'm not saying these characters are rendered completely useless, but let's just say that I see a BHG/Ionic spy more efficient than a PE without PA using a judge. We are suffering a "Weapon <x> is too OP" situation because oly a certain range of weapon, once used with their sufficient amount of P-C (way much more than 180) will deal way much more damage than other weapons. But why can't one be good with a PE without PA using a Termi or a Judge? Well simply because of the skill amount.
I saw PvP in Neocron 1 to be very different from one player to another. We had more possibilities with weapons, you could see a good ROLH PE, Judge without PA, etc. and a player would choose his favorite weapon, the one he can best use to kill his opponents. To make it short: more PvP variety.
The way I see the previous AK/Dizzy nerf is that these weapons were best with high damage of R-C skill. Now we are also suffering from this with pistols. My idea of all rare weapons is that they could ALL be used in an effective way and the player would not be stopped by balancing problems. By backtracking into that old system we would give a chance to all classes and play-styles without having to try and balance each weapon individually.
Of course putting back this system will not fully fix the balancing problems, we would have to rework on weapons that are still too weak even when fully capped.
Way #2: Modifying stats on currently 'weak' weapons
A more simple approach would suggest to simply change the weapon stats to each a decent efficiency during fights, such as deleting the distance modifier of executioner/redeemer, and give them full damage at any distance. Adding more damage to the RoG/ROLH (but keep their close distance damage bonus) whilst keeping the system as it is, meaning the more you skill in your fighting skill the more damage you do.
I believe the weapons can easily be switched around and changed with the current knowledge the community as of them. The example of redeemer is pretty clear here, this distance malus ruins the weapon in PvP, it makes no sense. We know why each and every weapon that isn't fit for OP fighting/PvP is that way. And we can change them throughout making weapon categorized threads on the forums (just an idea- sub balancing forum parts as Pistols/Rifles/APU/Melee, etc). I believe doing individual tests on weapons and basing our ideas on the current PvP scheme will help us keep an easy balance between what we already know and what we want to change (We know BHG is a very good PvP/OP war weapon, do we need to nerf it? Or do we need to boost other weapons of the pistol category?)
This way we can easily address the Melee/APU status we have going on. I believe what we want is not to 'bring back APU and Melees' as overpowered as they were in NC1/NC2, but to make them efficient among other choices the player have, balancing at its best.
I have to admit that on my side I'm strongly for the first option here, bring back that 'softer cap' system and use our own modifications on the weapons which are a problem afterwards. A PE judge sucks now, but if a PE can cap a judge's damage with 180 P-C, then I do think we are dealing with a harder opponent. I want to see plasma, beam, rayguns and other types of weapon somewhat useful again, to offer more variation in PvP. This also applies to Melee/APU spells, some ideas I heard were good such as adding stacks to melee, or ignore holy shield on melee as well. APU I haven't thought much about it, more freq: perhaps slightly less damage, with stacks back on fire/por spells? You tell me!
Thank you for reading me!
tell me which way You think fits better for balancing PvP and/or suggest new ideas! I would love to read them
Neal.