View Full Version : Growing concern for server population
Based on the the info from techhaven network, I can't help but feel population at peak is starting to dwindle, speaking to a lot of people, they're waiting for sparta in a hope that a lot of balancing issues are resolved.
the graph (http://stats.techhaven.org/graphs/peak-populations?server=titan&enddate=24-Jun-2013&startdate=01-Nov-2012) which shows peaks from 01/11/12 - present.
I've also noticed the forums are also a lot more dormant as of late.
Anyone noticed this?
Drachenpaladin
25-06-13, 02:08
Player numbers always go up and down, especially with server ups and downs...
William Antrim
25-06-13, 02:18
Yes. The good threads on this forum have dwindled massively in the last six months and even the brainport has got to be somewhat tiresome. The ingame population seems to have dwindled some as well from the initial surge of Titan some 9 months ago. I think truthfully that now even the casual players are beginning to replace all of the stuff they had acquired on Terra and so do not need to log in as much as before perhaps.
The pvp - for me personally - has wained somewhat and the general quality of gaming experience has become a bit stale. I have found myself logging in less and less because of this and because my clan mates all have their own real life issues going on at the moment.
On the plus side though I got into the closed beta for Firefall and so far I am enjoying the game massively. I have 4 invites left to invite others to come and play so if anyone wants one then pm me an email address if you want to join those of us in the Regz who are playing it.
I hope that Sparta does come soon and this whole experience improves because I do love NC still.
Lack of information on what is happening, plain and simple. No communication, the same as last time around. This is one of the reasons most of the people I know, have now stopped playing, including myself somewhat.
Kane Gregory
25-06-13, 08:00
No communication? Do you read twitter and the board?
I think currently it's the summertime
I think currently it's the summertime
This.
It is to be expected, that people rather want to enjoy the sun. Personally I dont play half as much atm, for that very same reason.
Between Work, drinking, working out and being an arse towards girls, there isnt that much time for NC - I still do still get quite a lot of opfights though.
Doc Holliday
25-06-13, 08:58
Its winter in the southern hemisphere. Some of us live here too. I agree with faid. This one of those trough periods. We will wait and see when the peak comes again. Hopefully with the balancing patch(es)
Based on the the info from techhaven network, I can't help but feel population at peak is starting to dwindle, speaking to a lot of people, they're waiting for sparta in a hope that a lot of balancing issues are resolved.
the graph (http://stats.techhaven.org/graphs/peak-populations?server=titan&enddate=24-Jun-2013&startdate=01-Nov-2012) which shows peaks from 01/11/12 - present.
I've also noticed the forums are also a lot more dormant as of late.
Anyone noticed this?
Yeap. It seems to have peaked after a few patches. The populations now looks stable, but they are not growing though.
Lack of information on what is happening, plain and simple. No communication, the same as last time around. This is one of the reasons most of the people I know, have now stopped playing, including myself somewhat.
Good to see you as positive as ever Faid...
I could point you to a page full of threads done by the support team, on what they are going to do etc. Now go and try threads from KK when they was still running Neocron.
Kane Gregory
25-06-13, 12:08
I could point you to a page full of threads done by the support team, on what they are going to do etc. Now go and try threads from KK when they was still running Neocron.
Good point!
Yes and the current server population seems stable since two month. That the population doesn't grow up could be a problem of missed advertising (which is only possible by the players through erm..buzz marketing(?))
Yes and the current server population seems stable since two month. That the population doesn't grow up could be a problem of missed advertising (which is only possible by the players through erm..buzz marketing(?))
Fair point as well. The only people advertising the game is us the community, either by telling our mates, tweeting and err probably a few other things.
I'm sure a few of us around here have contacts to on-line games sites and magazines, wonder if that's worth giving them a shout. Although we need re-balancing first.
Although we need re-balancing first.
I think this is the reason why things have quieted down a little, people are waiting for Sparta to go live, as they're tired of stale issues.
Good to see you as positive as ever Faid...
Well sorry my optimism seems to have plummeted along with the population. I've experienced some things in game which I'm not allowed to talk about that have greatly contributed to my lack of positive response.
But I suppose as long as you keep up the usual positive attitude everything will turn out ok :)
RogerRamjet
25-06-13, 18:01
The game just needs to start progressing again. Lots of players waiting in the wings.
Drachenpaladin
25-06-13, 19:59
I'd also note that, despite the curretn weather, we are heading straight for summertime, which also means summer hole in gaming land ;)
Myself and others have simply quit due to boredom. You can only replay the exact same game over and over so many times. That and the op fighting community is rather shitty and immature.
Well, team is withholding the mail-a-vet campaign, probably waiting till people who are already here will quit because of low pop.
And then ofc people from mail campaign will come, see the low pop and then quit too.
Typical scenario for anyone not willing to capitalize the success achieved.
Fair point as well. The only people advertising the game is us the community, either by telling our mates, tweeting and err probably a few other things.
I'm sure a few of us around here have contacts to on-line games sites and magazines, wonder if that's worth giving them a shout. Although we need re-balancing first.
They could always do what Anarchy Online did (still does)... promise a new graphics engine for 8 straight years, and keep people interested with 1 or 2 photoshopped pics while saying it's still being worked on. LOL!
As soon as Sparta hits us they will all be back.
RogerRamjet
28-06-13, 12:52
Well, team is withholding the mail-a-vet campaign, probably waiting till people who are already here will quit because of low pop.
And then ofc people from mail campaign will come, see the low pop and then quit too.
Typical scenario for anyone not willing to capitalize the success achieved.
NC doesn't need a huge pop though. Towards the end of NC1 Uranus might have had say 100 people active most days, maybe a bit more, but the OP and pvp scene was still very active. We just need a game that works.
I do think an email should have been sent, so people could have atleast witnessed and been involved with the progress the Devs are making.
It's been said that this will be done when a substantial milestone was reached.
I assume that's gonna be the balancing.
It's been said that this will be done when a substantial milestone was reached.
Yes, this is called "feature creep" and has killed many projects far bigger and better founded than Neocron.
Just let me remind you that feature named "Doy addon" was delayed several years because of endless postponing for the "next big thing".
People are the heart of this game, not the engine. The game never was balanced, we just learned to work around the issues.
Even if there is a big thing coming, it's counterproductive to call people into a new game they don't know. They need to be called into the old game they love. And eventually THEN throw the new thing at them.
[...]Even if there is a big thing coming, it's counterproductive to call people into a new game they don't know. They need to be called into the old game they love. And eventually THEN throw the new thing at them.
The balancing is one thing, bro.
Stabilizing the new server infrastructure at the new data center is another.
I think our Volunteers Team would also rather call out tomorrow than in 3 months if they could.
But if it's done wrong it's gonna fuck up more than it will help. It's my belief that if people come back to an unbalanced and instable NC it will hurt a lot more in the long run.
The balancing is one thing, bro.
Stabilizing the new server infrastructure at the new data center is another.
I think our Volunteers Team would also rather call out tomorrow than in 3 months if they could.
But if it's done wrong it's gonna fuck up more than it will help. It's my belief that if people come back to an unbalanced and instable NC it will hurt a lot more in the long run.
I definitely agree with this. It is only logical that they want to wait before sending out mails.
I stopped playing often for one simple reason. I love op fighting; but with my current schedule at work and the timezone (-5:00 GMT) i live in I don't really have the opportunity to do that. The non op PvP is still just zone whoring and the PvE is a boring and glitchy as ever.
With all that being said, I think the dev team has made pretty solid progress, my lack of interest can be attributed to less than optimal circumstances.
Help me get NC running on my new windows 8 computer and I'll come back to play :)
I have 4 almost capped characters on Titan and I'll be a little pissed if a new server launches and I still cant play.
Let me see if I can give you guys some responses. Zoltan or someone else might slap me for this but we'll see... ;)
Lack of information on what is happening, plain and simple. No communication, the same as last time around. This is one of the reasons most of the people I know, have now stopped playing, including myself somewhat.
It saddens me to see this, communication was always something that got to me 'back in the day' on the team or not. I had hoped we had established a pretty good basis for communication through Twitter, Facebook and updates on the forum. Personally I have pushed to ensure we put as much information as we can into the community, I always try to wade into issues on the forum where I can.
Is there a specific area of comms which is suffering? I know the Development Update is MIA for the month of May but I am currently (word is open!) working on a combined update for May and June to get you guys up to speed. I know we have had issues related to policy and rules, if there is information missing regarding those specific issues please PM me your thoughts and concerns (let's not bring those up here, let's not go off topic). It could quite simply be a case of it slipping someones mind, real life has been flogging me hard for the last couple of months so if I've personally let something slip my radar, I can only offer a sincere apology.
Communication is important to me and to us, if there is another way we can communicate or a way we can improve how we currently communicate, I am all ears via private message.
Yes and the current server population seems stable since two month. That the population doesn't grow up could be a problem of missed advertising (which is only possible by the players through erm..buzz marketing(?))
I think this is the reason why things have quieted down a little, people are waiting for Sparta to go live, as they're tired of stale issues.
The game just needs to start progressing again. Lots of players waiting in the wings.
Myself and others have simply quit due to boredom. You can only replay the exact same game over and over so many times.
The above points are all closely related, let's see if this can address them.
Other than recent issues with down time, migration and server performance population had leveled out as expected. We knew that not everyone who came back for the Titan launch would stay in game long term. As correctly stated above there is a few reasons for that. Although we've significantly improved the stability of the client and fixed many, many long term bugs and exploits the core experience of the game is relatively unchanged since the F6 patch. While this was a big shake up even that was more a return to a previous status quo than a significant leap forward in things to do. We need to add more things to do. That's my department and I am more than aware I need to deliver more. There is stuff in development but this takes time, a lot of time.
As I said in my interview with NeoCast there is tonnes of potential in the Neocron game world and I have hundreds of ideas floating around in my head to enrich the experience. Putting them into scripts, npcs, missions and tangible in game experiences is the hard part.
Balance is another big part of that puzzle, we need to make the game more enjoyable from a PvP perspective too which we hope to deliver with the balancing project. There will be more information on that in the May/June Dev Update.
Well, team is withholding the mail-a-vet campaign, probably waiting till people who are already here will quit because of low pop.
And then ofc people from mail campaign will come, see the low pop and then quit too.
Typical scenario for anyone not willing to capitalize the success achieved.
It's been said that this will be done when a substantial milestone was reached.
I assume that's gonna be the balancing.
The balancing is one thing, bro.
Stabilizing the new server infrastructure at the new data center is another.
I think our Volunteers Team would also rather call out tomorrow than in 3 months if they could.
But if it's done wrong it's gonna fuck up more than it will help. It's my belief that if people come back to an unbalanced and instable NC it will hurt a lot more in the long run.
We've talked about this before. We do have the means to contact a large number of past players and we want to do that sooner rather than later. However we wanted to do two things before we do that. 1) Improve client stability and remove a lot of old, experience breaking bugs. 2) Fix the glaring issues with balance and the broken classes in game with a significant balancing effort.
We've done a lot of work to get close to the first one and work is underway to address the second. Again, this takes a lot of time to achieve. A clear indicator that the game is not ready for such a call to action is our Facebook page. We have close to 800 folks on there who have chosen to take a peak at the evolution of Neocron, if we were in a position to shout about how everyone needs to come back and play, far more of those 800 folks would be in game right now.
We have been watching the stats very closely and monitored changes in population. Our aim is always to ensure people still enjoy the game we all love. We have a lot of work to do.
I'm aware this is quite a candid response but I do hope it eases your concerns.
All the best,
Triv
William Antrim
03-07-13, 10:59
800 people in game would be awesome tbh. So basically everyone just needs to be more patient I guess from Triv's post.
Personally I think the May/June Dev update coming out soonish would quell a lot of our issues with frustration at lack of perceived progress. I think everyone here knows that progress is a lumbering beast but the perception of it is something that frustrates all of us. We just do not know what is going on behind the scenes. As much as we do not have the right to bitch and moan because we are NOT paying customers at the same time I think we DO have a right to ask questions as we are still technically stakeholders in this game. By virtue of the fact that we own accounts and do our best to support the game where we can I think we need to see some form of update as and when that is possible.
I am all for putting down the pitchforks and torches personally but a timely dev update would really go down a treat right now.
Kane Gregory
03-07-13, 11:12
Thanks for your detailed answer Triv.
I think there was much more news and information as in the time of KK BUT
I miss the why and wherefore!
As example the server move, why was the server move important and what does you
hope/think do it for you?
Why do u not furnish detailed information to the community (really detailed)?
I will not denounce you. I only want to say: Maybe you worked since years as professionals in
the IT but this is a new projects with problems u maybe never come in contact with and we as community
know that you sacrifies your free time (whole respect for that).
As you said (somewhere) it's Neocron² - Community Edition. So why you doesn't tells the community the
details...the why and wherefores?
Thanks K.G.
PS: Maybe you don't tell us an ETA but why not give us a fixed interval of information (every 3-6hours?) I raped my f5-button really hard in the past ;-)
Well... I don't experience lack of communication.
However why could a Server-Move be more important than developing the game further?
There could be tons of problems regarding the servers. From financial problems up to stability problems it could be anything.
They shouldn't talk "loud" about such things.
i want to be blunt. more so than ever. poor communication and lack of progress is a dampener, but exploits and cheats are killer.
if you know there's a game braking exploit in the wilds that is used by people who excuse their doing doing so by stating that they "don't want to have to care about money after all those years playing" i want to puke. open secrets about ongoing cheating in op fights and severe lack of perspective regarding ANY progress are just the nail in the coffin. i can't be bothered playing a game that is essentially broken while no fixes are in sight. no time frame when the major issues are addressed, that should have been addressed the day before yesterday.
all i read is "these things take time". this is a non-statement. how long is "time"? when will X addressed/fixed? all this political correct "communication" is completely worthless.
volunteer or not... it doesn't matter to me. i don't care if you don't have the time or have problems irl. i want a good game experience and you fail to deliver that. since i have no way of helping/paying or doing anything worthwhile i may as well stop playing.
many others might not feel about the issues as extreme as me, but i'm sure some people agree with my sentiment even though they would never have the audacity to formulate it so bluntly. a dead horse can only beaten so many times before its remains turn to dust and are blown away with the wind.
what makes me really sad about this whole issue is the fact that i really like neocron. i care, otherwise i wouldn't write all those awful words.
William Antrim
03-07-13, 12:01
i want to be blunt. more so than ever. poor communication and lack of progress is a dampener, but exploits and cheats are killer.
if you know there's a game braking exploit in the wilds that is used by people who excuse their doing doing so by stating that they "don't want to have to care about money after all those years playing" i want to puke. open secrets about ongoing cheating in op fights and severe lack of perspective regarding ANY progress are just the nail in the coffin. i can't be bothered playing a game that is essentially broken while no fixes are in sight. no time frame when the major issues are addressed, that should have been addressed the day before yesterday.
all i read is "these things take time". this is a non-statement. how long is "time"? when will X addressed/fixed? all this political correct "communication" is completely worthless.
volunteer or not... it doesn't matter to me. i don't care if you don't have the time or have problems irl. i want a good game experience and you fail to deliver that. since i have no way of helping/paying or doing anything worthwhile i may as well stop playing.
many others might not feel about the issues as extreme as me, but i'm sure some people agree with my sentiment even though they would never have the audacity to formulate it so bluntly. a dead horse can only beaten so many times before its remains turn to dust and are blown away with the wind.
what makes me really sad about this whole issue is the fact that i really like neocron. i care, otherwise i wouldn't write all those awful words.
Who said anything about exploits? What do you have to gain by ranting? All this post makes me think is "bye then".
Hell-demon
03-07-13, 12:46
Unfortunately population rising and falling is nothing new to Neocron. If there isn't a consistent stream of content or fixes then the population will stagnate.
However, neocron faces more hurdles because of it's age and competition with other free online games. I am amazed that neocron is still going (I congratulate the volunteers on their sheer hard work), especially in a time where most people favour twitch based shooters and generic fantasy RPG's. Yet I think in order for Neocron to thrive it needs some serious financial backing and content overhauls.
Right now there seems to be two camps in neocron and that is the PVP crowd and the PVE crowd and neither party is happy. The PVP crowd suffers from hackers and just bad game mechanics like zone whoring or just weapon imbalance. The PVE crowd suffers from boredom as they finish the limited quests for items that have limited use because most are WoC centred and they just so happened to role a class that isn't a spy. To top it off events are infrequent and are usually just high level mob spawn fests so new comers can't really participate.
If anything Neocron needs to really help new players and give them more content, but I digress. I like Neocron but a lot of people here are veterans and nostalgic. If we get some balancing then great but Neocron really needs more and there is so much potential. Hell, just bring some life to ghost city that is DoY - which frankly was hyped so much with NC2 that it's insulting that it is left to rot.
this post isn't particularly funny so have an amusing pic.
http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lg17chv2nd1qzd23yo1_500.jpg
Who said anything about exploits? What do you have to gain by ranting? All this post makes me think is "bye then".
I feel the same..
eNTi, take a break from NC.. It is needed once in a while..
The Red Guy
03-07-13, 13:22
They took over a rotten piece of shit of a game and resurrected it to the current state. In their spare time. Don't know about you guys but I really don't have that much and by all means don't want to waste it in front of a screen, working on a time sink that others left to die.
Nah, I refrain to point out whats wrong to demand something from a volunteer team that way. Fking waste of time.
Doc Holliday
03-07-13, 15:02
Who said anything about exploits? What do you have to gain by ranting? All this post makes me think is "bye then".
same.
As promised (http://forum.neocron-game.com/showthread.php?152001-Development-Update-May-June-2013&p=2216464#post2216464).
Thank you Triv.
Thank you Team.
So, anyone care to explain why the sale of Neocron/the rights to Neocron are being held up?
Secondly, with you guys "taking a break" and talking about "later in the year" people will just stop caring, plain and simple. Then, you will have nothing to work for, or the game will die because your team will fall apart.
Let's not beat around the bush here. You guys just need to say you won't be working on it and get it over with. In all reality you've made some small useless changes and played with the netcode. We still have the same game, which is why people will be quitting all over again.
eNTI is right, period. If you're going to take over a project don't promise the world then half ass it. This will be the coup de grace as far as I'm concerned, unless the rights actually get sold to a GOOD buyer, not just for his money, but because he can and actually will put resources toward the game and have some people on it full time.
So, anyone care to explain why the sale of Neocron/the rights to Neocron are being held up?
I think you need to explain where you heard that with a source. Don't think anyone else here has heard that.
Secondly, with you guys "taking a break" and talking about "later in the year" people will just stop caring, plain and simple. Then, you will have nothing to work for, or the game will die because your team will fall apart.
Let's not beat around the bush here. You guys just need to say you won't be working on it and get it over with. In all reality you've made some small useless changes and played with the netcode. We still have the same game, which is why people will be quitting all over again.
I still care, and think it's good the team should recharge their batteries. Otherwise the team is going to burn out. And seriously they have just played with the netcode and added useless changes? o_O
Go and read the patch notes and dev blogs again.
The team have done a bloody good job trying to understand the legacy code and trying to fix it. There are still problems, but understanding the problem first is more important than fixing the problem.
eNTI is right, period. If you're going to take over a project don't promise the world then half ass it. This will be the coup de grace as far as I'm concerned, unless the rights actually get sold to a GOOD buyer, not just for his money, but because he can and actually will put resources toward the game and have some people on it full time.
Tell me you have a clue about project management. I rather have a project done right and delivered late, so players are happy. A project delivered late, on-time or early that is wrong will do more damage to the player base. And yes this game is being run by volunteers who give up their spare time to run this game, so you can play this game for free.
And again where do you get this idea that Neocron is for sale?
The Red Guy
04-07-13, 14:53
what did they promise? to keep a game alive that never had a big player base, improve it with the resources avaiable so ppl can play it for free. whow... what a bunch of lying bastards!
shame on you volunteer team! stop spending your time and money on NC because some complain they have the choice to play a game for free.
do you even care how ppl suffered because of you? the endless hours of playing a game...
The Red Guy
04-07-13, 14:54
edit
...Mindless Rambling...
Dude, did you expect that three people would build Neocron 3 for you?
I guess you misunderstood the intentions of the Volunteers Team.
They took over to relive NC2 and they have done a very good job so far. The situation was catastrophic one year ago. The servers were in Canada after Kirk had moved them there. We had big lag spikes every few minutes and were DDOS'ed to hell every day by one of the banned mofos.
NC was not playable at all.
Do not come here telling me that they did only small useless things. Do you even work in IT? Do you know how much work it is to move and set up servers and a complete infrastructure? Protection from DDOS? Working thru a code that's more than a decade old? Would you had read the current Dev update you'd know that Z even hosted NC on a bunch of his own machines after they took over last year and that he has now consolidated the servers at a new data centre.
It's the second move in one year and it took him more than one week of constant hard work. It's a shame that you're coming here now after this was just finished yesterday, spouting stuff like that.
If you want NC3 you'd better get 5 million Euros together tomorrow to make this happen instead of having these expectations from some guys working in their spare time. Then you can make the game that you want, and be responsible for its successes and failures.
But please don't come here to put other people's hard work down while you have done nothing.
Ryan Steiner
04-07-13, 16:45
What Ivan Eres said !
Let me add one more point:
In all reality you've made some small useless changes and played with the netcode.
I summarized the patchnotes from the last 12 months for you. Yes, you are welcome!
Technical changes:
Dropped support for DirectX 7
Changed FoV, therefore players seem to be slower
Fixed numerous exploits and vulnerabilities
Fixed several possible server crashes
Fixed a bug that stopped Neocron from launching when certain applications are open ("Chrome Bug")
Fixed a crash on alt+tab in wastelands in fullscreen mode
Fixed the main menu going black on alt+tab in fullscreen mode
Fixed a crash caused by neocron.ini not being writable
Changed the way interpolation is handeled ("clipping fix")
Tweaked the netcode to always include y updates and update more frequently
Fixed a bug that caused the HUD not being rendered on screenshots
Screenshots are now saved as .jpg
Fixed a bug that caused the HUD to reset to default state after a crash
Removed legacy elements from the HUD (e.g.: recover backpack)
Fixed misalignment of worldmap at widescreen resolutions (fullscreen mode)
Fixed culling problems with widescreen resolutions (fullscreen mode)
Fixed misaligned outpost signs
Added widescreen resolutions to the launcher configuration panel
Added Anisotropic Filtering, configurable via the launcher configuration panel
Fixed truncation of entries inside error.log
Added timestamps to the damage log
Fixed Venture Warp returning players to appartment
Fixed several possible reasons for server crashes
Fixed issues with the netcode causing packet loss
Fixed a number of exploits
Fixed a number of server and client crashes
Fixed a bug that could lead to damaged chardata
Interpolation fix redone from the ground up
Fixed an issue preventing players from activating Gene Replicators inside appartments
Fixed GenRep costs for Crahn, Black Dragon, Tsunami Syndicate, Fallen Angels and Twilight Guardian HQs to reflect their post-DoY locations.
Fixed the combat rank of droners being lower than expected in certain cases
Fixed drone AoE damage, LEd droners now damage themselves as well as their drones
Fixed Fallen Angels CityCom missions
Fixed the CR being too low when changing zones inside a vehicle
Fixed CR being too high inside hacknet
Fixed the respawn behaviour of several container types (containers spawning quest items, e.g. Grim's ID cube, as well as hacknet code fragments)
Fixed the buy/sell window covertly resetting the amount to a value of 1 when clicking buy/sell. Now it properly retains the previous value
Fixed item count not corresponding with the entered amount when moving stacks of items
Significantly increased rare part drop chances for Warbots and a number of related techmobs.
Fixed several server side crashes
Fixed a problem with the patcher
TL92 Pulselaser Pistol is back in stock
Staff Sergeant Van Dyk moved
Turrets in energy core 2 shoot back
Reworked netcode
Window mode now supports very high resolutions as well (numbers must be multiples of two)
Fixed a number of exploits and critical security issues
Fixed a number of bad world data causes
Fixed an issue with the loginserver
Fixed a number of gameserver crashes
Fixed incorrect team money distribution
Team money distribution is now calculated at once instead of receiving all money first, then paying a share to teammates
Fixed a bug that caused NPCs to retreat from combat
NPCs now use a line of sight for targeting that is comparable to that of player characters
Fixed drones not launching in a number of situations
Reduced wait time between drone launches, in case a launch failed
Appartment passwords may now contain the ' char
Account passwords may now contain the chars . and #
Slightly tweaked/increased overall performance
Fixed several exploits
Used an approach similar to splines to smooth interpolation
Several further tweaks to the interpolation
Fixed rubberband bug
Fixed hacknet mobs not dealing damage
Fixed parsing of default options for several NPCs
Fixed a buffer overflow when updating world actors
Raised Neocron's bandwidth limitations
Fixed several reasons for invisible damage
Fixed an error which lead to items dropping from the trade window back into the player's inventory
Music should now play independent of the windows compatibility mode setting
The damage of beam weapons should now be calculated correctly
Fixed beams not showing on several weapons
Content changes:
Turned around the CopBot staring at the wall in Plaza Sector 1 (after 8 years, the wall wins)
Temporarily removed outpost turrets
Added TL92 Tangent Assault Pulselaser Pistol to high level tech pistol vendor
Added TL63 Gatlin Cannon to high level low tech cannon vendor
Added permenant spawn for the Outzone 2 High Tech Cannon Smuggler
Added entrance to the Drone Racetrack
Added RN Terminals to Crahn HQ
Replaced Outzone Station ambient sound
Removed OOC advertisement from the Plaza area
Fixed a conflict between Reza's Calling & Regant's Faith Missions
Fixed spawn of Heff in TG Canyon.
Fixed spawn of Malfunctioning Warbot Prototype in the MIRL-600 Warhammer Mission
Fixed drop rate of fragment from Tacholytium Titan Warbot for Crahn Epic mision #4. Now always drops for those with the mission.
Fixed a large number of wrong object types (e.g.: CityComs being tagged as chairs)
Fixed position and alignment for a large number of static objects and NPCs
Fixed many more miscellaneous gameworld issues
Added a new loading screen
Overhaul of H14 and the H14 Command Unit
Replanted several trees in J 04
Fixed several floating objects in H 15 and fixed the hole in the fence near MC5
Arrested the thief of the sign post in the newbie Area MC5 and returned the sign safely to its home
New vendors have moved into Battle Dome
Female vendors now have the correct skin
Outzone Sewer Sec-1 now uses the correct world
Added Outzone and Pepper Park apartment key smuggler to Pepper Park Sec-1
Black Dragon contacts have been sighted outside of the Pussy Club
Fixed a number of gameworld bugs and missing objects in Via Rosso Sectors 1, 2 and 3.
Fixed a number of gameworld bugs and missing objects in Pepper Park Sectors 1, 2 and 3 including the Crahn Church
The Snack-A-Tack shop in Pepper Park Sec-3 went out of business
Removed OOC advertisment in Pepper Park Sec-1 and Via Rosso Sec-2
High level Plasma Pistols can now be obtained from the Canyon Smuggler.
Misc. smaller fixes
Gameplay changes
Fixed an issue with team xp calculation
Fixed combat rank not always being updated
Fixed a bug that allowed overcasting of stronger shields.
Fixed low level drones being very hard to use
Reduced the intensity of visual interference when Drones are being damaged
Fixed several issues and exploits concerning casting
Changed the way combat ranks are being calculated
Fixed AI not being able to target drones in special cases
Fixed a reloading bug
Added the techlevel of the item to construct to blueprints
Law enforced players are now buffable by non law enforced players, but not vice versa!
The existing speed cap has been adjusted so speed tapers off more dramatically at higher livels of agility and athletics. Players with extreme speed setups will see a reduction of speed
SOUL LIGHT SYSTEM
Access to the Gene Replication Network now requires Runners to have -31 Soul Light or higher.
Access to the Venture Warp Network now requires Runners to have -31 Soul Light or higher.
Access to vendors in safe zones requires Runners to have -31 Soul Light or higher.
Access to Apartment Access Interfaces in safe zones requires Runners to have -31 Soul Light or higher.
Automatic Soul Light regeneration has been disabled.
WEAPON BALANCE
Damage output of the TL115 Disruptor lowered by 25% to compensate for aggressive burst bonus.
Damage output of the TL113 Ceres Assault Rifle CAR-47 and the TL108 Infiltration Assault Rifle IAR-47 lowered by 20% to compensate for aggressive burst bonus.
Speed malus when equipping a heavy weapon has been reduced from 20% to 10%.
Switching weapons while reloading has been disabled.
NEW FEATURES
New hit box colouring has been added to more easily identify clan mates. (Customise BBClanMate in rposcolor.ini)
Gamemasters are now able to set zones to safezones while the server is running.
Gamemasters are now able to set zones to automatically log out players after a certain time of idling.
Gamemasters are now able to set zones to spawn players at the reset point after logging out.
Snip
Yeah those volunteers sure have been lazy!!!
.... :p
Yeah those volunteers sure have been lazy!!!
.... :p
Just this :D
Hell-demon
04-07-13, 17:27
Serious question:
Would you pay a monthly subscription for this game in it's current state?
Do you think other people will and the population grow with a subscription model?
Not trying to be nasty I genuinely want people's feedback.
Serious question:
Would you pay a monthly subscription for this game in it's current state?
Do you think other people will and the population grow with a subscription model?
Not trying to be nasty I genuinely want people's feedback.
What about the F2P model? (I'm talking about the ones that have item shops etc.)
Players can have shops? O_o
Hell-demon
04-07-13, 17:57
What about the F2P model? (I'm talking about the ones that have item shops etc.)
I understand that might be the course for neocron right now but what if we had the old subscription model? Is Neocron in it's current state worth paying a monthly fee?
William Antrim
04-07-13, 18:31
If I walked into it right now as a new subscriber no. If you ask someone who has grown into their thirties about a game they picked up in their early naive twenties if they had any disposable income would they chuck £10 a month towards something that they have loved like a red-headed stepchild then yes I would. I give more than that to charity each month and if it directly benefited the game then I would do it.
I love this game. However I am in a catch 22 because the community currently sucks.
If I walked into it right now as a new subscriber no. If you ask someone who has grown into their thirties about a game they picked up in their early naive twenties if they had any disposable income would they chuck £10 a month towards something that they have loved like a red-headed stepchild then yes I would. I give more than that to charity each month and if it directly benefited the game then I would do it.
I love this game. However I am in a catch 22 because the community currently sucks.
Charity?! Fucking hippie! :p
But yeah, I would more than happily pay 10£ a month to play NC.. But as Will said, no newcomer would.
Hell-demon
04-07-13, 19:42
If I walked into it right now as a new subscriber no. If you ask someone who has grown into their thirties about a game they picked up in their early naive twenties if they had any disposable income would they chuck £10 a month towards something that they have loved like a red-headed stepchild then yes I would. I give more than that to charity each month and if it directly benefited the game then I would do it.
I love this game. However I am in a catch 22 because the community currently sucks.
Neocron is running on nostalgia mostly, I feel, and that is not enough to sustain the game. A new gamer will be put off by the old graphics and some outdated game mechanics. The volunteer team have done great keeping the game alive, but can neocron be a commercial success?
It's essentially 11 years old almost and the times have changed. A tight community and cyberpunk atmosphere may be not enough to keep neocron truly alive and thriving. Just my 2 cents or 2 pence.
William Antrim
04-07-13, 22:13
The hard work put in and the untapped potential keep me playing but that's all.
Hell-demon
04-07-13, 22:26
The hard work put in and the untapped potential keep me playing but that's all.
:( Bloody hell.
Is Neocron ol' yella? Should we just scrap what we have and start from scratch?
Doc Holliday
05-07-13, 07:05
sat in a slightly different boat i would still love to donate money but i have zero intentions of playing the current iteration of the game. If things improve in time then i would reconsider but there are simply too many reasons to list why im not keen to play right now.
If i was a new subscriber well its hard to say. on the one hand theres all the things we know and love about the game but on the other it is still old.
you can put new makeup on an old hooker and send her out to work but shes still an old hooker. she can do things younger newer girls cant but then she also shows her age at times. hell demon im sure you get that reference most of all right ;)
Hell-demon
05-07-13, 11:10
Indeed it's why I stopped turning tricks in Amsterdam and now work for EA games.
Indeed it's why I stopped turning tricks in Amsterdam and now work for EA games.
You say potato...
Not only is the game stale and boring - with no real promise in sight to spice things up.
Gamebreaking bugs are not getting addressed quick enough (even when reported INSTANTLY after a patch/hotfix).
Beam Weapons
Stealth Bugs
etc.
I also lost faith in the entire Dev team when stupidly harsh rules were being enforced for 'evil' players. Seems like a blatant attempt to ruin gameplay for a small amount of people. With no real insight into the changes (or any call from the community) makes one wonder really.
Look at other games. Murder is of course punishable - and grief play - however systems are in place to make it a viable play style,
Adding things like in game bounties/rewards/leader boards for murderer-slayers etc.
I feel that the dialogue between the community and the devs needs to be FAR more open.
'yes we read every thread'
'yes we take on everyones opinions'
Doesn't really feel that way.
Lack of information on what is happening, plain and simple. No communication, the same as last time around.
The facts contradict this comment.
Communication is very good and is provided by Twitter, Facebook and the forums.
Thank you chaps who are making this game better for us. Thank you. xoxo
Chuck Norris
05-07-13, 22:39
you guys act like this is their full time jobs; I love neocron, thanks for keeping it going and WASTING your free time on it.... not all of use think its a waste. Some things are new and changed up a bit
You also have to remember that it is indeed summer. Alot of people spend their times outside these times.
unc0nnected
15-07-13, 19:30
You also have to remember that it is indeed summer. Alot of people spend their times outside these times.
Outside? With real people and sunlight? pffftt, what is this madness you speak of?
Yes. The excellent discussions on this community have disappeared extremely in the last six several weeks and even the brainport has got to be somewhat tedious. The ingame inhabitants seems to have disappeared some as well from the preliminary increase of Powerhouse some 9 several weeks ago.
DigestiveBiscui
06-08-13, 16:46
Yes. The excellent discussions on this community have disappeared extremely in the last six several weeks and even the brainport has got to be somewhat tedious. The ingame inhabitants seems to have disappeared some as well from the preliminary increase of Powerhouse some 9 several weeks ago.
For me, leaving was simply down to the terrible choices made by the 'dev' team
To what are you referring, Digestive? I've been back about 3 weeks now and can definitely see a lot of large changes. But, other than the weird stuff going on with APUs, I don't know what would be so influential in your dissatisfaction (especially given the fact you have no apu).
Also, y helo thar. Long time no pk.
Dribble Joy
06-08-13, 17:53
He probably means the SL changes that means red SL actually has an impact other than copbots shooting you.
I haven't had to deal with that yet, but one day in the relatively near future I probably will. From what I understand, the toughest pill to swallow will be that GR's go locked down after a certain -SL. The no GR thing really does screw one's ability to fix SL when it is bad. There should be a tangible penalty for going severely -SL, but it shouldn't be so unimaginitive that your red has to get flogged all the way back to +SL. With all of the crazy random mobs out in the world, it is easily conceivable that a red SL runner could be slayed randomly by a DoY bot, or any of the other mobs that are all 2-3 hit killers while trying to egress to a location where they can actually run missions to raise SL.
For me, leaving was simply down to the terrible choices made by the 'dev' team
I left because this so-called lead-manager neither knows how to manage a server (see twitter posts and various irc comments), nor does he treat people equally. Certain favors for certain persons, not banning people because they'd be 'coming back anyway. Acting like everything is just a piece of cake.
I left because of censorship-like rules. Bad language? Not allowing grief-play? I thought we were opting for a post apocalyptic world with prostitutes, drugs and violence. If I wanted to live in carebear kingdom, I'd play wow instead. There, at least gm's are actually regulated and the server admins know what they're doing. No zero-to-cap services and no well, whatever-attitude either.
And last but not least, the game got boring. Ridiculously boring. The concept is a winner, but over the last 8+ years I've seen every corner, played every class, every setup that was even remotely playable, had amazing appartments, collected trophies and whatnot. There's nothing more to do or to accomplish. Even if there was, the people I enjoyed playing with all left - for the very same reasons I just stated.
Drachenpaladin
06-08-13, 18:55
Declaring why no business left here...
And still you come back...
DigestiveBiscui
06-08-13, 19:02
.
Also, y helo thar. Long time no pk.
It's been a while! You missed rizzy etc come back then same time i did about 8 months ago. What i'm referring to are many things. Red SL being one....the fact that they have banned names such as 'Jesus' because it's 'offensive' being another. Not allowing stupid clan ranks, favouring come clans over others, their ban system being so easily flawed its hilarious, posting threads on what the users would like to see address the most and the ignoring them - shit like that.
I started off with the same thoughts as you when i came back, but you'll soon notice the same type of people are running the ship, they just have different names.
There definitely comes a time when the only route is separate no matter how much time and effort one puts into anything. As far as theme and player/player interactions, I do agree. The world is gritty and the universe should allow for that behavior from its players.
That said, with the state of the community, in the interest in creating longevity for the game, it may be in entire game's best interest to go carebear in some respects to bolster the community. If that is possible.
Aaaaaaaaaanyhow-- since you're leaving/have left - I'm guessing you want to give me your stuff, yes?
I really would have loved to have come back at that time, but since I'm a yank and don't have much contact with any of those guys any longer I never got the call.
I do have to agree, banning names like Jesus is a bit unnecessary - that's actually the 4th most popular male name in the Hispanic world. I don't know what the clan names or titles were, but I suppose I could imagine certain reasons to intervene.
As for clan favoring/ban system/etc I'm just going to have to experience it. I do recall days in the past where treatment didn't appear to be very fair for everyone in-game. As most everyone knows I caught myself a pretty solid ban for something I considered unfair at the time. Looking back through my forum history, I'm surprised I wasn't banned long before that happened. I'd have to say, after having been subject to a ban, that I do feel I was treated as fairly as I should have been. It's hard to be objective when you get too close to something, which is definitely where I was 'back in the day.'
Also-- my offer to take things you won't use anymore off your hands still stands :)
I don't know what the clan names or titles were, but I suppose I could imagine certain reasons to intervene.
The reasons were never given, it would seem that having the word "fuck" in the title is the only reasoning for them to censor it. For example we were asked to change the clan rank "Don't fuck with McDuck" because they said it was offensive to the player base. McDuck is a character name in our clan and that was his own rank.
When I asked about it here on the forums I was told that we would have an answer within a few days but that never happened. I asked about it a few months later and was told that they would definitely get an answer regarding this censorship, they never did. That was months ago now and I've given up on it like most people have. This is an example of the poor communication I referenced earlier in this thread that has directly contributed to the rapid decline in server population.
Hell-demon
07-08-13, 15:44
The reasons were never given, it would seem that having the word "fuck" in the title is the only reasoning for them to censor it. For example we were asked to change the clan rank "Don't fuck with McDuck" because they said it was offensive to the player base. McDuck is a character name in our clan and that was his own rank.
When I asked about it here on the forums I was told that we would have an answer within a few days but that never happened. I asked about it a few months later and was told that they would definitely get an answer regarding this censorship, they never did. That was months ago now and I've given up on it like most people have. This is an example of the poor communication I referenced earlier in this thread that has directly contributed to the rapid decline in server population.
Does seem bizarre or indeed a case of double standards on the developers part. You can't use a funny endearing title for a fellow clan mate and yet an NPC tells you to "piss off you wanker" while strippers gyrate behind him. Then afterwards you can go to plaza and pelvic thrust someone in the face by typing sex. This game is gritty. Guns, drugs and sex are the norm and npcs swear. So it seems odd to enforce some strange censorship.
Still you can have a character called Digger Nicks if you like. Subtlety offensive if that's ya thing.
Aaaaaaaaaanyhow-- since you're leaving/have left - I'm guessing you want to give me your stuff, yes?
Actually, I was thinking of giving it away.
But I'd like to give it to some noob who just got into the game. Any volunteers?
Actually, I was thinking of giving it away.
But I'd like to give it to some noob who just got into the game. Any volunteers?
Lexxuk needs all the help he can get - in so many ways!
Actually, I was thinking of giving it away.
But I'd like to give it to some noob who just got into the game. Any volunteers?
I'll still volunteer, and will promise to spread the love to new runners in-game. I've helped a few players out so far with some cash and cst. Unfortunately not a single one of them has been back online after I helped out.
I'll still volunteer, and will promise to spread the love to new runners in-game. I've helped a few players out so far with some cash and cst. Unfortunately not a single one of them has been back online after I helped out.
Promises are hardly worth anything, when it comes to neocron. What's your ingame nick though?
Promises are hardly worth anything, when it comes to neocron. What's your ingame nick though?
Knucklebutt
to me it seems the devs have their priorities wrong and with so little time on their hands to work out issues that should have never made it past beta back in the in the day it's just a lacklustre theme park for spare time programmers with a big vision but too little skill to make the big changes happen in a meaningful time frame for me to really care.
DarkPhoenix
08-08-13, 22:35
to me it seems the devs have their priorities wrong and with so little time on their hands to work out issues that should have never made it past beta back in the in the day it's just a lacklustre theme park for spare time programmers with a big vision but too little skill to make the big changes happen in a meaningful time frame for me to really care.
How charming of you. These 'spare time programmers' do this for free. If you don't like it, leave. There is no need to insult a group of people who take time out of their lives to help keep NC alive, as well as put up with players' bullshit.
If you can do better, step up. If not, piss off.
He does bring up a good point, though. I wonder if we should possibly start a donation fund that can be used to either supplement the volunteer devs' income so they could focus and validate their time some more, or if we could use that money to pay a 3rd party dev company to get crackin'.
We've been told donations are being set up but it takes a while because of legal issues.
to me it seems the devs have their priorities wrong and with so little time on their hands to work out issues that should have never made it past beta back in the in the day it's just a lacklustre theme park for spare time programmers with a big vision but too little skill to make the big changes happen in a meaningful time frame for me to really care.
Still waiting for an application ;)
William Antrim
09-08-13, 13:38
Enti is still the forum whipping boy then? :)
My vision of where Neocron is heading;
The support crew will continue to provide support by balancing, patching and mopping up the game. People will continue to play in current numbers. Some new content may come, while the game is slowly brought to a solid structure. End.
I don't see Neocron going public to the extend where profit can be generated. I don't see the support team setting up tools to generate an income or receive donations.
Neocron is an old but great platform that many still enjoy very much. New people are still coming in while older people are still leaving. The support crew will continue to support this game as they enjoy (I hope) working on it and playing it.
To quote DarkPhoenix for anyone that complains the support crew isn't doing enough:
If you can do better, step up. If not, piss off.
/me loves Neocron and all of the people that currently play it. I love jumping in for a NeoCast while seeing all the great people chill about by going out of their way to come and party, etc. Neocron has an amazing community.
But am I really cruel, cold, mean or negative when I say that I don't think Neocron will become greater in the sense of players, Steam potential, revenue potential, than it is right now?
If I step on anyones toes here, or I am completely wrong in regard to the support crew's intentions; my apologies!
Enti is still the forum whipping boy then? :)
The way he's going about slagging off the support team I say yes. Slagging off any volunteer team is just quite simply disrespectable.
If you can do better, step up. If not, piss off.
I couldn't have said it better, but the way Enti is going about it on these forums I'm not sure anyone would want someone like him on their team.
Neocron isn't going to be fixed overnight, remember nearly 18 months ago we was almost looking at the end of Neocron. Today it has a future and it's getting fixed slowly. That's way better than no progress at all.
being extra nice and lying/sucking up to them because they volunteer doesn't really help them or the game to progress. i don't really care if you agree with my methods, maybe the devs appreciate some honesty. if you don't care for my comments just put me on ignore. it's as simple as that.
DarkPhoenix
09-08-13, 21:34
being extra nice and lying/sucking up to them because they volunteer doesn't really help them or the game to progress. i don't really care if you agree with my methods, maybe the devs appreciate some honesty. if you don't care for my comments just put me on ignore. it's as simple as that.
Neither does useless and offensive comments. Saying someone has a lack of skill in something, while having little if any yourself, is neither constructive nor welcome. It's more likely to get devs to say "Fuck it" and stop work all together. (Not saying it's the case here)
And who are you to dictate to them their priorities? They have lives outside of this game, whether you care for it or not.
No one is forcing you to do anything. You make the decision to play. You can make the decision to stop. Internet anonymity doesn't give anyone the right to bully/cause offense. You might as well put everyone on ignore, because I'm betting not a lot of people here care for your comments.
It's as simple as that.
Neither does useless and offensive comments. Saying someone has a lack of skill in something, while having little if any yourself, is neither constructive nor welcome.
Oh, and you just happen to know the 'skill level' of every other person in here? This one goes right back at you.
If you can do better, step up. If not, piss off.
Actually, people did step up - and were threatened with legal consequences almost immediately.
Stop being so goddamn ignorant.
+1 for eNTI.
O
Actually, people did step up - and were threatened with legal consequences almost immediately.
Stop being so goddamn ignorant.
I was going to post something along these lines, there are plenty of people willing to to put forth time and effort or "step up" as it was put but they were flat out refused. GM Lykos was one of them, I know another programmer who has tried on numerous times to offer his services voluntarily but was either outright ignored or flat out denied. It seems like there is a small bubble of people that exist for the development of NC and they want to keep it that way.
I have absolutely no problem with the current voluntary staff, I think they are doing pretty good considering what they have to deal with but I think they should consider letting some more people in the club.
Sex yo fayses <3
DarkPhoenix
10-08-13, 02:32
Oh, and you just happen to know the 'skill level' of every other person in here? This one goes right back at you.
Actually, people did step up - and were threatened with legal consequences almost immediately.
Stop being so goddamn ignorant.
+1 for eNTI.
A directed dig, I'll admit. But the point still stands. No, I don't know others' skill level and I've never said I have any dev skill myself. But why is he complaining about it, when to our knowledge, he has no knowledge? Oh? He does know something about programming and the like? Well, then put it to good use and stop bitching about others' work.
And the people that did step up? While having good intentions, went about it the -wrong- way. Thats all I'll say about that.
If people have such a problem with the game, the devs, and their 'priorities'. Leave.
A directed dig, I'll admit. But the point still stands. No, I don't know others' skill level and I've never said I have any dev skill myself. But why is he complaining about it, when to our knowledge, he has no knowledge? Oh? He does know something about programming and the like? Well, then put it to good use and stop bitching about others' work.
And the people that did step up? While having good intentions, went about it the -wrong- way. Thats all I'll say about that.
If people have such a problem with the game, the devs, and their 'priorities'. Leave.
While i agree with your passion in defending the game and those who are developing it voluntarily i wouldn't be so fast as to tell people to leave. The game is on life support, people leaving is not what you want because remember why develop a game when there is no players.
I assume there is a forum for constructive dialogue between the team and folk that want to help?
A directed dig, I'll admit. But the point still stands. No, I don't know others' skill level and I've never said I have any dev skill myself. But why is he complaining about it, when to our knowledge, he has no knowledge? Oh? He does know something about programming and the like? Well, then put it to good use and stop bitching about others' work.
And the people that did step up? While having good intentions, went about it the -wrong- way. Thats all I'll say about that.
If people have such a problem with the game, the devs, and their 'priorities'. Leave.
Well, what's the 'correct way'? Enlighten me. Last time I checked, there was none.
There's no public bug tracker, exploit discussion is strictly forbidden. Report an exploit? Copy/pasted reply.
Have a technical question about the server? Can't help you with that. Someone I know recommended to change parts of the EULA.
Not the rules, just the wording. Less room for interpretation. Obviously, it wasn't changed. It's that much more fun to have people fight over these rules on a daily basis.
You know, the only time I got involved (read: involved myself) was when I replaced all the new evo-bs weapons/sounds/textures with their NC1 counterparts. The account was banned later on, but who cares? It was possible - about four hours of work, including figuring out how to read/parse the .def files, as well as how the GFX System works, but possible nonetheless. It was actually more fun than playing the damn game.
TL:DR;
People would put their skills to good use, if there was a way to do so.
Instead, we get a prime example of what happens, when you go all-ego about something.
@ Darkener
Well, people are already leaving. I doubt that DarkPhoenix is responsible for that. :P
And no, there is no forum. There's a brainport, stuffed with ideas that are yet to be implemented.
Everything else happens via Email. Or... well, it's supposed to happen.
Well, population will go up by +1 soon... Thought about NC for the first time in about 5 years last week, came here and dusted off the old account. Still the same old chat then - moaning about server population, bugs and stuff. I remember talk of another MMORPG (that shall not be named) and how it was better. Well, done loads of other games and none compare.
Time sharpen the combat knife and stab some rats in the sewer...
Drachenpaladin
10-08-13, 13:07
Report an exploit? Copy/pasted reply.
And you expect a personally signed letter of gratitude from the entire dev team, Kirk and Prince Charles everytime you do what is simply your duty?
MayhemMichael
10-08-13, 14:10
The best thing for Neocron would be to release the server code to the community. Let us be serious for a second. The only reason they haven't done this yet is because there is still somewhat glimmer of hope that money can still be via subscriptions or some other donation item methods. There wouldn't be a huge influx of new players to Neocron generating revenue. It would just be a tax on the current very small population enjoys the game now. The staff has run off so many old players with zero chance of returning to anything of a current state. If you want real results let the community put up its own server and work on the code themselves.
You might combat me with "there would be no point, the population is already small what would a bunch of tiny private servers do for it". People would go to the best run server where the bugs are fixed, cheaters are taken care of swiftly and problems are taken care of quickly. I know this ain't everyones first rodeo when it comes to playing online games and even maybe for some of you have played older games run on private servers. (ie Ultima Online, SWG, ect ect). You can either do what's best for the community or you could do what's best for yourself.
Releasing the server code would create competition. You want people on your server? Better step your game up. I believe for the past couple years the saying "Good enough for government work" has been the mentality of not only the staff but the community as well.
Drachenpaladin
10-08-13, 15:09
The best thing for Neocron would be to release the server code to the community. yadda yadda...
The result would be: 3 crappy maintained and soon abandoned projects and a few more servers just for horrible modding attempts lulz and hax.
I don't trust anybody here in the com to pull off anything seriously with the source code. Period. There is just no proof that anybody here could work properly on the project and in a serious manner.
MayhemMichael
10-08-13, 15:57
The result would be: 3 crappy maintained and soon abandoned projects and a few more servers just for horrible modding attempts lulz and hax.
I don't trust anybody here in the com to pull off anything seriously with the source code. Period. There is just no proof that anybody here could work properly on the project and in a serious manner.
Except for the fact that someone already did. I don't understand why you are so hostile against it. What do you have to lose? nothing. What do you have to gain? Everything.
Drachenpaladin
10-08-13, 16:33
Except for the fact that someone already did.
Which is EXACTLY why i have no faith in any plans regarding making NC open source. Too much anarchy and problems with authority among the peeps here.
MayhemMichael
10-08-13, 17:23
Which is EXACTLY why i have no faith in any plans regarding making NC open source. Too much anarchy and problems with authority among the peeps here.
What are you on about man? We are talking about making Neocron as great as humanly possible and you accuse people that are wanting to help or see some change anarchists and criminals. Take a look at yourself. You are the problem. We aren't talking about leaking nuclear launch codes or the secret to cold fusion energy here.
This thread will probably get locked real soon.
MayhemMichael
10-08-13, 18:01
This thread will probably get locked real soon.
And that's the sad part.
Well... I posted this thread a couple of months back now, and it's great to see its prompted such discussion, I know for one I've not logged in for a while now!
The class I know and love has broken since my return in November last year, I very much doubt it'll fixed by this November!
I wished I'd of chance to play on the 3rd party server to see what improvements had been made!
I don't want a bunch of private servers dividing the community right now but I'm relieved to know some people have the capability to make one. Because when the inevitable happens, kirk/the volunteers finally get tired of throwing their money down a black hole and pull the plug. A new neocrack dealer or two will emerge.
being extra nice and lying/sucking up to them because they volunteer doesn't really help them or the game to progress. i don't really care if you agree with my methods, maybe the devs appreciate some honesty. if you don't care for my comments just put me on ignore. it's as simple as that.
Enti, you are not in the position to tell the dev team anything about their work after all your bitching and moaning on the forums over the last 6+ months.
What have you done for Neocron other than writing noob threads on the forum?
All your threads and comments in the last 6 months revolved around this:
1.) Comments and threads about how you need the LE and only want to do PvE and be left alone
2.) A thread about how you did man up at least and removed your LE and got ganked at MB while leveling without an LE and how badly designed this game is because of that
3.) A thread about how PvP sucks so much in NC because you get killed all the time
4.) A thread about how bad the OP fights are because you suck at it
5.) And now your stance is to tell everybody in your comments how bad the Volunteers team is and how Neocron sucks because of this
You're really getting on my nerves now, man. I never wrote anything to you directly nor did I answer your comments cause I didn't think it's worth it but now it's enough. Enti, you suck so much that my balls hurt.
I hope that Zoltan never even slightly considers to let somebody like you work on Neocron's code. Somebody who plays a game like Neocron the way you did Enti cannot be a good game designer and programmer ever.
Well... I posted this thread a couple of months back now, and it's great to see its prompted such discussion, I know for one I've not logged in for a while now!
The class I know and love has broken since my return in November last year, I very much doubt it'll fixed by this November
Dude, if your concern was really the server population let me repeat one more time the first answer you got from some of the oldest comm members: It's summer in Germany.
The weather in Germany hasn't been so good since 2006, I think. We had almost 40 degrees on some days over the last weeks.
I promise you there will be more players again after the summer.
I really hope that your "concerns" are eased now if that is all that you wanted to know.
Except for the fact that someone already did. I don't understand why you are so hostile against it. What do you have to lose? nothing. What do you have to gain? Everything.
Fuck private servers, dude. I don't want to be at the mercy of some random 14 year old dude in his basement and his hard feelings towards his mama. Forget it. And I don't want the fucking code leaked to every idiot script kiddie out there to tinker with it and make themselves uber in the game whenever they feel like it.
I prefer a calm development in a single hand. So please don't discuss that shit here. Nobody who's clear in their mind wants fucking private servers. There should not even be a single thought about it.
If we really want to help NC we should donate. Maybe some day that will be possible if an E.V. can be set up, the german equivalent to a charity organization.
My vision of where Neocron is heading;
The support crew will continue to provide support by balancing, patching and mopping up the game. People will continue to play in current numbers. Some new content may come, while the game is slowly brought to a solid structure. End.
I don't see Neocron going public to the extend where profit can be generated. I don't see the support team setting up tools to generate an income or receive donations.
Neocron is an old but great platform that many still enjoy very much. New people are still coming in while older people are still leaving. The support crew will continue to support this game as they enjoy (I hope) working on it and playing it.
To quote DarkPhoenix for anyone that complains the support crew isn't doing enough:
If you can do better, step up. If not, piss off.
/me loves Neocron and all of the people that currently play it. I love jumping in for a NeoCast while seeing all the great people chill about by going out of their way to come and party, etc. Neocron has an amazing community.
But am I really cruel, cold, mean or negative when I say that I don't think Neocron will become greater in the sense of players, Steam potential, revenue potential, than it is right now?
No, you are not. Everything you said is absolutely correct. This is the status at the moment and that's how it looks like for the near future.
Anybody who thinks something else is either an idiot or suffers from delusion.
Dude, if your concern was really the server population let me repeat one more time the first answer you got from some of the oldest comm members: It's summer in Germany.
The weather in Germany hasn't been so good since 2006, I think. We had almost 40 degrees on some days over the last weeks.
I promise you there will be more players again after the summer.
I really hope that your "concerns" are eased now if that is all that you wanted to know.
My concerns were a little shallow at the time of posting if I'm honest, there far more troublesome problems with the game than low population.
Issues that lead to a viscous circle of people leaving die to problems not being fixed, balancing not being address. Such as a complete class being so flawed its not so fun to play.
I could sit here and type in detail regarding issues but they've been brought up time and time again. I simply don't have the inclination to go into detail.
I hope that Zoltan never even slightly considers to let somebody like you work on Neocron's code. Somebody who plays a game like Neocron the way you did Enti cannot be a good game designer and programmer ever.
interesting conclusion.
No, you are not. Everything you said is absolutely correct. This is the status at the moment and that's how it looks like for the near future.
Anybody who thinks something else is either an idiot or suffers from delusion.
do you by any chance know the word "circlejerk"?
yes it's OBVIOUSLY very hot atm and some people will be back eventually but only until they realize that meanwhile nothing much has changed they will immediately leave again.
in the end it probably won't matter how many people keep playing or how long it takes to reach certain goals. they got no time pressure whatsoever. when they are done, they are done and maybe neocron will be a better experience in a few years, or maybe we finally get a nc3. who knows. i'm just sad it can't be sooner.
I could sit here and type in detail regarding issues but they've been brought up time and time again. I simply don't have the inclination to go into detail.
... and don't you dare criticise anything. especially not in detail.
yes that was sarcasm.
If anyone here doubts the ability of community-driven development, they need to do two things:
1) Become a part of the linux community.
2) Read up about Valve/Steam & their struggles with Workshop/Greenlight.
There are many lessons to be learned in both realms, but the key factor is this- A entire community of hobbyists will outpace quantity and quality of content when compared with a group of professionals. They will self-regulate, and they will band together despite their differences.
The only reason to keep source private is to totally control development & protect IP.
Also, private servers tend to significantly increase overall population, not decrease.
UO is the easiest game to point to for success with this, but many many FPS's learn this between releases. Bottom line, some people will only play the game if they can play it their way.
MayhemMichael
11-08-13, 02:06
I also want to point out that in no way am I having a go at the devs. It's quite obvious that Neocron would not be here today if it wasn't for the hard work and determination of the volunteer staff to keep it going for the community. It's actually quite the feat.
The only reason to keep source private is to totally control development & protect IP.
... and you really believe that the volunteers have a say in IP matters?
Releasing NC as open source is, even without considering the huge legal fubar involved (right of use/distribution for artwork, licenses etc.) not something Kirk will do. He said on multiple occasions that he believes the brand still has value (most here would agree) and while that is the case, be it imagined or real, no such thing is gonna happen.
... the linux community
the linux community is in fact a prime example of how fragmentation can become a problem. look at the current display server debate or the still abysmal hw vendor support. the same work is done over and over, where combining the efforts would likely be more efficient.
Also, private servers tend to significantly increase overall population, not decrease.
Overall population is worth little when it is spread out to thin. Remember the old days of 4 dying servers (3 of them practically dead in the water).
Don't get me wrong, I agree that anything that helps to get NC the amount of care it deserves and needs would be great. While I have nothing but respect for the volunteers contribution and continued dedication, I fear that for the challenges ahead, the current structure will not suffice. Guess we'll see how Sparta pans out. *fingers crossed*
Whilst getting multiple dev teams to work on it might produce something good in the long run, as has been pointed out already, the server population can't support it. You need the density to stop the ghost town feel 24/7.
Hats off to those working on it now!
MayhemMichael
11-08-13, 16:46
... and you really believe that the volunteers have a say in IP matters?
Releasing NC as open source is, even without considering the huge legal fubar involved (right of use/distribution for artwork, licenses etc.) not something Kirk will do. He said on multiple occasions that he believes the brand still has value (most here would agree) and while that is the case, be it imagined or real, no such thing is gonna happen.
the linux community is in fact a prime example of how fragmentation can become a problem. look at the current display server debate or the still abysmal hw vendor support. the same work is done over and over, where combining the efforts would likely be more efficient.
Overall population is worth little when it is spread out to thin. Remember the old days of 4 dying servers (3 of them practically dead in the water).
Don't get me wrong, I agree that anything that helps to get NC the amount of care it deserves and needs would be great. While I have nothing but respect for the volunteers contribution and continued dedication, I fear that for the challenges ahead, the current structure will not suffice. Guess we'll see how Sparta pans out. *fingers crossed*
Well I suppose 1 dying server is better than 4.
And you expect a personally signed letter of gratitude from the entire dev team, Kirk and Prince Charles everytime you do what is simply your duty?
Stop acting like a 13yo fanboy.
No, I do not expect them to write a letter.
Also, it is not my duty, just as isn't their duty to improve the game, as multiple people in this threadhave stated.
What I do expect is an actual fix. What I do expect is that they care about these reports. After all, they're volunteers. If you volunteer for a position, it implies an actual love for what you're doing. If you report something to a GM, the first thing he'll say is something along the lines of 'write to exploit@neocron.com'. Yes, I could do that. Instead, I probably won't. Why? Because 99,9% of the time, I get their nice little paste and then that's that. Out of numerous things that have been properly reported by me and/or friends, not one has seen a fix.
I don't trust anybody here in the com to pull off anything seriously with the source code. Period. There is just no proof that anybody here could work properly on the project and in a serious manner.
Oh, and why is there no proof? Could it be because people were threatened with lawsuits? Also, what on earth makes you think that the people working on the game now are any more qualified than somebody in here? Do you know them personally? Have you looked at their code? I doubt it, so stop making assumptions about the abilities of other people. Clearly, you have absolutely no basis for that.
Which is EXACTLY why i have no faith in any plans regarding making NC open source. Too much anarchy and problems with authority among the peeps here.
You're seriously talking about authority? The authority to grant certain players woc 5, as soon as the server went up for the first time, perhaps? You know what would happen, if they open-sourced NC? A couple servers would emerge. Some would be better than others. Eventually, most would disappear and one or two would be popular. Why? Because they wouldn't abuse their power, because they would fix stuff, because they would deserve to be where they are. Obviously, this isn't going to happen but it's not because of the reasons you stated. It's about being the boy who doesn't like to share his toys.
Fuck private servers, dude. I don't want to be at the mercy of some random 14 year old dude in his basement and his hard feelings towards his mama. Forget it. And I don't want the fucking code leaked to every idiot script kiddie out there to tinker with it and make themselves uber in the game whenever they feel like it.
...
I hope that Zoltan never even slightly considers to let somebody like you work on Neocron's code
a) Then don't play on a server that's hosted by a 14yo. Simple as that.
b) Do you seriously believe people need the full source to do so? It would certainly help, but it's far from being a requirement.
c) If you seriously believe that that decision is up to Zoltan, I really don't know what to say. You know, there's something called reality. It's said to be cold and harsh, but you should try it once in a while.
MayhemMichael
11-08-13, 23:12
This Sechs guy gets it.
Drachenpaladin
11-08-13, 23:14
Stop acting like a 13yo fanboy.
No, I do not expect them to write a letter.
Also, it is not my duty, just as isn't their duty to improve the game, as multiple people in this threadhave stated.
If i act like a 13yo fanboy then you act at least like a mad little girl who got dumped for the first time. Or in short: You are butthurt to the max. :rolleyes:
What I do expect is an actual fix. What I do expect is that they care about these reports. After all, they're volunteers. If you volunteer for a position, it implies an actual love for what you're doing. If you report something to a GM, the first thing he'll say is something along the lines of 'write to exploit@neocron.com'. Yes, I could do that. Instead, I probably won't. Why? Because 99,9% of the time, I get their nice little paste and then that's that. Out of numerous things that have been properly reported by me and/or friends, not one has seen a fix.
Still don't get why you are mad about standardized replies but meh. And forgive me my "fanboyishness" if I believe Alduins recent post where he states that shit isn't so easily to fix like it looks on the first look. Again, wtf do you expect the GMs to do when they receive a bug report/exploit? They take it and put it on th pile of yet to finish stuff. What would YOU do in that situation? Bend out of shape to give everyone the impression that all their reports will bear results until the next weekend at latest?
Oh, and why is there no proof? Could it be because people were threatened with lawsuits? Also, what on earth makes you think that the people working on the game now are any more qualified than somebody in here? Do you know them personally? Have you looked at their code? I doubt it, so stop making assumptions about the abilities of other people. Clearly, you have absolutely no basis for that.
Well, if you are so inclined about qualifications, what are yours? What enables you to contribute to Neocrons development at any end? Or to measure the efforts have been made. Oh yeah.. let me guess, lawsuit
Anyways, i assume you did look at the source code then? Or your friends? Any assumptions about the abilities of other people that can prove your points further?
You're seriously talking about authority? The authority to grant certain players woc 5, as soon as the server went up for the first time, perhaps? You know what would happen, if they open-sourced NC? A couple servers would emerge. Some would be better than others. Eventually, most would disappear and one or two would be popular. Why? Because they wouldn't abuse their power, because they would fix stuff, because they would deserve to be where they are. Obviously, this isn't going to happen but it's not because of the reasons you stated. It's about being the boy who doesn't like to share his toys.
Let me guess, proof of nepotism = lawsuit? Feel free to outfit me with anything via PM.
Anyway, in short words for you: I don't trust any bunch of punks to get anywhere useful with the source code of NC. Where are people that set up a emulated server or sniff around in game files any more trustworthy as the people currently instated?
Come one guys, cool it down a bit. After all, we wouldn't want MayhemMichael to be sad, would we? Hmm, that name sounds familiar. :p
MayhemMichael
12-08-13, 14:58
Come one guys, cool it down a bit. After all, we wouldn't want MayhemMichael to be sad, would we? Hmm, that name sounds familiar. :p
I'm incognito Niddy. :angel:
Back to the rage topic: I just saw the post by Triv about adding new members to the vol team. That's a great idea and would be a great step in the right direction for Neocron. I'm sure over the past decade that many members of the community have gained a great deal of knowledge and experience in their personal lives and could contribute to growing and the development of Neocron. If you ever need help on the business side (marketing or accounting) of it, i'd be happy to do it pro bono.
William Antrim
12-08-13, 18:57
Mike just so you know the phrase "good enough for government work" is actually used by people who work for the government who do work.
You cannot use it to describe nc lol. Noone here is in any kind of government. :)
MayhemMichael
12-08-13, 19:23
Mike just so you know the phrase "good enough for government work" is actually used by people who work for the government who do work.
You cannot use it to describe nc lol. Noone here is in any kind of government. :)
It's not used by people who work for the government. Google the meaning.
I really admire the volunteer team, I don't even have time to play NC let alone help run it.
If this game gets fixed i'll have to teach and pay a WoW farmer to level a H-C/T-C tank for me :o
Back to the rage topic: "If you can do better, step up. If not, piss off."
This Sechs guy gets it.
It's true.
1. it's summer and there's nothing we can do about that.
2. the recent patches were PvP-centric, so non-PvP-centric casual players are slightly repelled. this could be adressed.
I just wonder about some people's comments here about bugs/exploits/whatever not being fixed ...
Besides the fact that there have been long lists of changes and fixes already, the upcoming pacthes noted on other threads in the forums (already released at the test server?) show, that there is some work on them.
Sometimes I have the feeling some people expect that their reported bug will be fixed and released immediatelly, best within the next 24 hours ... oh wait, better even shorter!
I can imagine, they get more than enough reports, which are listed, tested and then trying to find the point where it can be fixed. As some announce themselves here to be programmers themselves, they should know pretty well that's not done in just 5 minutes, the less if its about a game (and not just a simple application). I am scripter/coder myself, but honestly I wouldn't dare to try with Neocron Code as it first is not my programming language and second it may be a bit too big for me.
I'd just say, go to the test servers (in case they are on), check the lastest test patches and see if your reported Bug is fixed or not. Even if not, just notice that there IS some bugs fixed. So your reported one may be the next one on the list.
Just be patient ... things will come, I am sure of that.
And yeah, maybe I am too optimistic, but I've seen worse time ... way worse ...
I cant tell you why so many ppl are gone but what i can tell you is why the infected players are (currently at least i hope so) gone or idle:
Most of us enjoy the PvP in Neocron. The issue was that slow balancing and patching bugs related to PvP (Clipping etc) forced us to adjust our classes an playstyle to be able to compete against the other strong PvP players. But the drawback of stacking spys and using op weapons was that PvP newcomers had 0 chance against us. We tried your best let them take place in the OP-Fight business but as we all know survival of the fittest is doing a good job even in computer games. So the map was dominated by 2 or 3 Clans. As usual fighting the same enemy over and over again is getting boring. The fact that there are some very efficent tactics that we consider as abuse or not working as in intended at OP-Fights made us even more disappointed in fighting some clans. We discussed that over and over again on the teamspeak/ooc/wisper etc. But some Player will always seek for a way to have an advantage over other Players. I thinks that this was one of the main issues why more and more clans were leaving the OP-Fight business. Additionally the server preformes was often very unstable. To quot our whatsapp group: "Server online ?" "No" "Ok i`m back in a week! See ya" or "Any enemies online" "LG 1 FF 2 PPB 0 ;-)" "ok i'm gonna clean the road bye".
I hope thats this will represent the most opinions of the infected players.
Anyway we had a good time!
Thanks to FF and LG and all the other for some great fights.
Hope to see you ingame soon after sparta is finally applied.
Cheers
Hackebeil
Thread closed...
Oh, and thanks for the interesting debate over lunch. I actually had nothing to do so had a bag of crisps, a bar of dairy milk and a tin of diet coke.
Lunch +1
Much Love!
Well we are in the summer slump right now when people are outside more and the steam sales distract people as well, I'm still trying to finish all the games I bought (Aint even started most of em). Sparda will most likely help make the population come back up as will winter.
What we really need for the population to really get going again is advertising when they have fixed stuff up, till then its always going to be a bit low. Sadly it might affect other peoples enjoyment. Another reason I've not played in a while is I got bored of the only pvp being in pp1 and it always being the same people.
The community doesn't help either really, I could handle fighting the same people if it was the right people but the same people usually entailed either VIRUS with a 10 man OP team or infected with a 10 man OP team. This ended up making the only pvp in the game pointless which then as this game is basically only pvp made the game pointless.
Well.. and theres only so long you can fight people hitting with 100% of their shots while claiming they are just awesome before you wait for the GMs to stop letting their friends cheat. Yes this post will most likely get deleted for this part of the post and my account banned.. but its pretty well known that some of the GMs give their mates guns and hack, if they don't stop this game is good as dead. Volunteering doesn't give you free reign to cheat.
I can tell you why I didn't come back and suggested to my old buddies not to either:
Recent moderation/admin decisions have shown that despite all the changes and time that has passed, there's still the same old shitty attitude to players. "This is our decision, even though it makes no sense and we can't explain or justify it, listen to it or be banned. PS: No further discussion or bans will be issued" etc etc
Sorry, but that attitude turned me off NC almost a decade ago, it isn't going to wash now. For this to be a community, there needs to be respect between the players, the mods and the devs. Unfortunately....
I can tell you why I didn't come back and suggested to my old buddies not to either:
Recent moderation/admin decisions have shown that despite all the changes and time that has passed, there's still the same old shitty attitude to players. "This is our decision, even though it makes no sense and we can't explain or justify it, listen to it or be banned. PS: No further discussion or bans will be issued" etc etc
Sorry, but that attitude turned me off NC almost a decade ago, it isn't going to wash now. For this to be a community, there needs to be respect between the players, the mods and the devs. Unfortunately....
I recognize what you're referring to, and I'm not seeing it.
I can tell you why I didn't come back and suggested to my old buddies not to either:
Recent moderation/admin decisions have shown that despite all the changes and time that has passed, there's still the same old shitty attitude to players. "This is our decision, even though it makes no sense and we can't explain or justify it, listen to it or be banned. PS: No further discussion or bans will be issued" etc etc
Sorry, but that attitude turned me off NC almost a decade ago, it isn't going to wash now. For this to be a community, there needs to be respect between the players, the mods and the devs. Unfortunately....
Go away then, stop lurking mate :p
Sucks that when AD finally gets a bunch of people the other op fighting clans (no, not the pp1 op fight heroes known as Infected and Virus) go AWOL. Find your ways back please. My ionic is thirsty for blood.
William Antrim
27-08-13, 16:17
lol Kanedax. Have they improved with the PVP zoneline antics or is it the same old same old? The lack of a good quality fight is what put most people off nc I think.
Its a sad day when the community is the biggest nail in the coffin of progress. The dev team do an outstanding job and the community fuck it all up with such ridiculous antics.
Ghostface_Speak
27-08-13, 18:08
The best thing for Neocron would be to release the server code to the community. Let us be serious for a second. The only reason they haven't done this yet is because there is still somewhat glimmer of hope that money can still be via subscriptions or some other donation item methods.
I couldn't agree more.There still IS a possibility to generate income off Neocron 2 IF you put a lot of hard & focussed work into it (getting the GFX to a whole new level,increase things to do and what not..)but we all know that from a businessman's POV: thats anything but profitable and is unlikely.
Instead of letting the game die like Sony/LA did with SWG,handing out the source would be the nod towards the community many,many people were waiting for.Talented peeps with dedication and enough drive to accomplish something with that would renew the lifecycle of NC,paving the way for a certain company to be the Phoenix out of the ashes if they manage to pull up part 3.
There were countless Ultima Online shards but the official re-opened servers are still used & populated so even if you got homemade-competition,if you're good in doing what you do then people will come back "home".
Treating Neocron as a "product" or a "money printing machine" that needs to be locked away until god-know's-when is the wrong aproach,it's far more than that.For some,it became the ideal game despite all its flaws and they want nothing else than a game that is/was just like NC.
Rescuing Neocron with 90's mentality didn't work out,try the 2013+ approach.
Also:who mentioned Shadow Harvest?
@William
The zone whoring is actually worse now because if there is anyone to fight at all it's a full op team of 10 people with at least 1 ppu. Kthxbai
Roburn Bliss
06-09-13, 01:10
@William
The zone whoring is actually worse now because if there is anyone to fight at all it's a full op team of 10 people with at least 1 ppu. Kthxbai
Simples. No safe zones anywhere :angel:
I'm sure back in the day even Plaza 1 was a free fire zone.
Simples. No safe zones anywhere :angel:
I'm sure back in the day even Plaza 1 was a free fire zone.
Well, with dynamic safezones now, they could easily experiment with it. Why don't we try having no safezones for a day or two and just see what happens?
If you want to kill what little atmosphere is left then you could go no safe zones. There would would be no more pokers / tradeskillers who werent LE'd hanging around anywhere, everyone would stick to their appys. Do people just hang out casually in p2 or PP? Nope. This is what killed Techhaven, turning it into a non safe zone pretty much guaranteed that no one would ever hang out there. People need a place to just hang out and not worry about being killed, a place to focus on bullshitting and tradeskilling.
A directed dig, I'll admit. But the point still stands. No, I don't know others' skill level and I've never said I have any dev skill myself. But why is he complaining about it, when to our knowledge, he has no knowledge? Oh? He does know something about programming and the like? Well, then put it to good use and stop bitching about others' work.
And the people that did step up? While having good intentions, went about it the -wrong- way. Thats all I'll say about that.
If people have such a problem with the game, the devs, and their 'priorities'. Leave.
Good read, haven't laughed so hard since last week. Thanks man.
I can tell you why I didn't come back and suggested to my old buddies not to either:
Recent moderation/admin decisions have shown that despite all the changes and time that has passed, there's still the same old shitty attitude to players. "This is our decision, even though it makes no sense and we can't explain or justify it, listen to it or be banned. PS: No further discussion or bans will be issued" etc etc
Sorry, but that attitude turned me off NC almost a decade ago, it isn't going to wash now. For this to be a community, there needs to be respect between the players, the mods and the devs. Unfortunately....
Same. ^
If you want to kill what little atmosphere is left then you could go no safe zones. There would would be no more pokers / tradeskillers who werent LE'd hanging around anywhere, everyone would stick to their appys. Do people just hang out casually in p2 or PP? Nope. This is what killed Techhaven, turning it into a non safe zone pretty much guaranteed that no one would ever hang out there. People need a place to just hang out and not worry about being killed, a place to focus on bullshitting and tradeskilling.
Tech haven should be a safezone but nothing else, and the safezone to non-safezone exits of it should be made pvp free.
Doc Holliday
08-09-13, 07:25
if tech haven becomes a safe zone then you can make the argument that both military base and the canyon should be too. Just because it was a safezone doesnt mean it SHOULD be.
Personally i dont think it should. it served its purpose. I think faction HQs should have a safe zone area within them that allows for the standing around bullshitting and socialising within the game and plaza 1 and 2 as it will enhance the new runner experience by keeping those 2 zones to plot some dedicated missions/dungeons within the immediate inner city limits before they press on out to pepper park/the outzone etc.
On the subject of Faction HQs i also think they shouldnt be used as a safezone to run in to and hide if you get jumped near by. Your attacker should be able to pursue you but have to deal with the guards blasting him too so, while its not without risk, there is more of a sense of predator and prey and some real risk of death on both sides. If the prey cant turn and shoot back when he has support of the guards then hes either a tradeskiller or a coward (or hes in virus :)) but either way this is still supposed to be a cyberpunk game.
Besides. if he dies he drops a belt. he can just respawn inside the safe zone gr area and go get his belt. no biggie.
About 20 of us were discussing a new game to try and I mentioned neocron, so many are turned off by the moderation and lack of support, I felt like there was nothing else to say to counter...
Good luck
A
About 20 of us were discussing a new game to try and I mentioned neocron, so many are turned off by the moderation and lack of support, I felt like there was nothing else to say to counter...
Complaining is always easy. Tell us how we can improve and what exactly is missing in terms of moderation and support.
Although I quoted this specific comment, my statement applies in general to anywhom who complains.
Slauncha,
Alduin
If you want to kill what little atmosphere is left then you could go no safe zones. There would would be no more pokers / tradeskillers who werent LE'd hanging around anywhere, everyone would stick to their appys. Do people just hang out casually in p2 or PP? Nope. This is what killed Techhaven, turning it into a non safe zone pretty much guaranteed that no one would ever hang out there. People need a place to just hang out and not worry about being killed, a place to focus on bullshitting and tradeskilling.
I agree with this :)
I do miss being able to chill in Tech Haven chatting crap. Whenever I made a new toon it was the second place i'd tag after getting point red... on some of my later toons I didn't even bother with it. Little/no point going there unless you're passing through to go to the WoC places or using the armor vendor (and appys to an extend I guess)
Why not make Tech Haven a safe zone and everywhere else no safe zones... Guess you could temporarily remove SI / implant loss upon death and see how that goes. Tech Haven would once again be a bustling trade centre and the streets of NC would have you facing potential danger around every corner.
I mainly stopped playing due to boredom and (back then) what seemed to be a lack of direction/future. Whilst the game appears to be going in a very positive direction due to the volunteers I can't see myself having spare time going forward what with the up and coming game/console release schedule. Last time I did login I didn't see any name I recognised either :(
As for me I miss Neocron being a lawless gameplay environment to interract with, complete with the usual COD type "you suck noob learn to play" to the casual, foul mouthed player to the 100% in character RP guy.
Basically, you used to be able to be what you without much slap on the wrist from GMs, especially with regards to player expression. People had, for instance, retardedly offensive names, and clan images were conceptualized with the most putrageous antics ever.
Mind you back then, I was 15yrs old or something.
Mind you back then, I was a paying customer.
I am now 30yrs old and it really annoys me how GMs are now cracking down on language and shit, as if were supposed to be role models to others or something.
This is a game ffs. You guys put more hassles and annoyances on it than when I used to play and payfor it.
Drachenpaladin
09-09-13, 22:59
Basically, you used to be able to be what you without much slap on the wrist from GMs, especially with regards to player expression. People had, for instance, retardedly offensive names, and clan images were conceptualized with the most putrageous antics ever.
Mind you back then, I was 15yrs old or something.
Mind you back then, I was a paying customer.
I am now 30yrs old and it really annoys me how GMs are now cracking down on language and shit, as if were supposed to be role models to others or something.
Times have changed. The interwebs are no wild, untamed land anymore. As such is gaming. Back then nobody gave a fuck about what happened in a little corner of the web in a MMO. Today ppl go apeshit about everything, cuz they can.
In other words:
http://img.pandawhale.com/46691-sliding-deal-with-it-gif-RONj.gif
Dribble Joy
10-09-13, 00:21
The internet is now an integral part of our world.
There has even been suggestions in the UK that internet access should be a human right.
It is part of modern life now. It therefore has to 'grow up'. It needs to be subject to the same rules and expectations. Threats, abuse and anything that would be illegal/unacceptable in the 'real' world is now becoming the same in the online world; because the two are now the same thing.
There is no longer a difference between defamation in a printed newspaper and a blog. The responsibility for those comments made in either are now equal.
That a given comment should or should not be deemed offensive or otherwise unwelcome is not an 'intrusion' by the wider world on the online world, but a question to be posed to the wider world itself.
The entitlement to unaccountable criticism as a result of the early internet's anonymity has gone. There are consequences. You can say what you want, but the expectation that you will or even must be immune to responsibility cannot continue if the internet is to be what it is rapidly becoming or already is - just another means of communication within society.
One problem with that DJ, the real world doesn't have an ignore function.
Dribble Joy
10-09-13, 00:33
You will find that it does. It's called ignoring someone.
Edit:
And as I assume you are wise enough to know, people can get around ignore functions if they want to. Just like in real life. At which point it becomes harassment, which is the point that you let the relevant authorities know about the situation.
I suppose it's true you can get around it but I've never heard of people going to those lengths just to harass someone, has that actually happened? Really though you can try to ignore people in real life but you still have to hear what they're saying and if things get physical you can't make your body ignore their attacks.
I personally don't have a big problem with censorship in NC, I don't think we need it but it's not gonna stop me playing or effect me much. I agree with people who want things to be uncensored but I stop short of saying it stops me playing because I've never played NC just for the chance to insult people.
Times have changed. The interwebs are no wild, untamed land anymore. As such is gaming. Back then nobody gave a fuck about what happened in a little corner of the web in a MMO. Today ppl go apeshit about everything, cuz they can.
In other words:
http://img.pandawhale.com/46691-sliding-deal-with-it-gif-RONj.gif
You are correct, the internet has become to large and has been spolied by this new generation of users who think that facebook and youtube are the pinnacle of internet usage.
If you werent on the internet before 2000, you should not be allowed ever. Keep the internet for those who know how to use it properly!
RogerRamjet
10-09-13, 11:07
Bring back bigfloppydonkeydick.
I understand defaming someone over an internet blog is as legually accountable as defaming someone in a newspaper article.
Having a clanname like "STD" isnt defamatory nor causing predjudices to anyone yet it was removed from game, in the most dictatorial manner possible.
Theres one thing that kills NC for me and its the stupid ass community. Dev and players alike.
I understand defaming someone over an internet blog is as legually accountable as defaming someone in a newspaper article.
Having a clanname like "STD" isnt defamatory nor causing predjudices to anyone yet it was removed from game, in the most dictatorial manner possible.
Theres one thing that kills NC for me and its the stupid ass community. Dev and players alike.
Maybe the clanname "STD" or "Science, Technolgy and Destruction" isn't defamatory, but perhaps you should have seen some of the clan ranks they had. I would had called them pretty vulgar and obscene at times. I'm sure others here could apply suitable words from here (http://forum.neocron-game.com/announcement.php?f=2&a=441) to the clan ranks they have seen.
Speaking of banning clan ranks for no reason, whats the deal with the rank "don't fuck with McDuck"? Why was it banned?
Drachenpaladin
10-09-13, 22:54
Speaking of banning clan ranks for no reason, whats the deal with the rank "don't fuck with McDuck"? Why was it banned?
Because bullshit.
Dribble Joy
10-09-13, 23:48
Having a clanname like "STD" isnt defamatory nor causing predjudices to anyone yet it was removed from game, in the most dictatorial manner possible.
Theres one thing that kills NC for me and its the stupid ass community. Dev and players alike.
I personally have no problem with an 'obscene' clan/rank/player name, I might think it rather immature, but I would probably leave it there.
I think the problem when running a community is risk. You have to keep as many people happy and enjoying themselves, and that is invariably pulled in two or more directions. You have to make a form of risk assessment about where you draw the line/make a compromise. Where that line in the sand is is always going to piss people off on both sides.
I haven't seen anyone complain, saying they're offended by someone's name or clan rank but I have seen quite a few complain about clan ranks getting removed or names getting changed. It seems these decisions have only upset some people and made no one happy. Like I said in my previous post though, it's not a big deal that this happens and I wouldn't have even talked about it if people hadn't already brought it up here, it's just a little disappointing.
There must be a rule and a line.
Try these clan and rank names in every other online game and see what happens. Either you're lucky and nobody notices 'cause nobody cares for you or you will get your ass banned faster than you can say "I am so hardcore"!
This whole discussion feels immature.
And it does not belong in this thread either. I hope this thread gets closed soon. It is like a festering wound in this forum, with flies eating its rotten flesh.
There must be a rule and a line.
Try these clan and rank names in every other online game and see what happens. Either you're lucky and nobody notices 'cause nobody cares for you or you will get your ass banned faster than you can say "I am so hardcore"!
This whole discussion feels immature.
And it does not belong in this thread either. I hope this thread gets closed soon. It is like a festering wound in this forum, with flies eating its rotten flesh.
Word.
One question to those clans with ranks are either offensive or contain profanity. Have you considered the fact that you may be driving players away from playing Neocron because your clan ranks are offensive?
This universe is a point-in-case example of vulgarity. This is not the most liberal game/community by any means.
In my mind, the only 'censoring' that should be enforced should relate to harassment. Beyond that, the surly side of dystopian society would allow whatever to be whatever.
Drachenpaladin
11-09-13, 20:29
One question to those clans with ranks are either offensive or contain profanity. Have you considered the fact that you may be driving players away from playing Neocron because your clan ranks are offensive?
Inb4 "If they can't take at least that then they are not cuz out for NC in the first place anyway"-yadda yadda bullshit blah...
One question to those clans with ranks are either offensive or contain profanity. Have you considered the fact that you may be driving players away from playing Neocron because your clan ranks are offensive?
Last I checked Neocron was completely immersed in gritty hardcore edgy profanity. I hardly think someone is going to be ok with the hookers, pimps, murderers, and every-other sort of unsavory NPC in the game but have a problem with the word "fuck" in someone's clanrank. If anything, the fact that the dev's are taking a hypocritical stance on this, is the contributing factor to people leaving. I don't know of anyone who has left because there was profanity in a clan rank but I do know of more than a few who have left because of the unfounded censorship. But whatever the fuck ever I guess. :)
I don't know of anyone who has left because there was profanity in a clan rank but I do know of more than a few who have left because of the unfounded censorship. But whatever the fuck ever I guess. :)
The following is my opinion only and may not represent the opinion of the team as a whole!
Sure, if this would be the case games like the one not to mention on these forums, Age of Conan, Rift, Deviance and many others would be completely empty. People are mainly leaving because we are now 4 months behind schedule in terms of Sparta. On top of that, the passive spell casting bug has not been fixed in R#183, a very annoying bug to hunt because it is very hard to reproduce. Same by the way holds for the beam weapons bug. Apart from that there were some patches on Vedeena which introduced some new bugs instead of fixing erratic behaviour, but well, it is a testserver and except the rare part construction bug all of the newly introduced bugs have been fixed by now.
The problem with setting up rules is quite easy to explain: either you are very explicit and explicitly tell people what is forbidden, which often forbids more than is really needed to be forbidden or you define a rule in a way which leaves quite a lot of room for interpretation. However, leaving room for interpretation will always lead to disaggreements between the GM team and players, because they feel like they have been treated differently than other players. So as you can see, there will [b]never]/b] be a "correct" way to define rules, however, rules have to be made. After all, we are a community and judging by common sense, players should respect each other which also includes any kind of name, as well as the chat.
Dribble Joy
12-09-13, 01:32
In my mind, the only 'censoring' that should be enforced should relate to harassment. Beyond that, the surly side of dystopian society would allow whatever to be whatever.
IIRC, RP insult/offense is entirely permissible. The problem arises when it bleeds into a non-RP context. A further problem arises when people disagree on where that distinction falls.
I agree 100% with Brammers, this is a post apocalyptic, Shooter, MMO. This game contains all the quality stuff of other similar games, such as peaceful leveling areas, Pretty scenery, Butterflies projecting rainbows out of their posterior, hookers, drugs, violence, npc's that tell me to fuck off, ect.
Not only should NAUGHTY NO NO WORDS not be used, at any time, what so ever. But I feel that we should remove the weapons from the game, and sit around a campfire, debating who would be the more productive controller of the outpost. Maybe turn the medicare into a drug rehab, and while we are at it, maybe make the job center do something, ie making sure those hookers have a real job, so they don't have to work the streets. We could probably then influence some gms and dev team from hello kitty online to do events and the likes.
Also, please remove the sex emote, kthx. I have been sexed numerous times by your staff, and I feel that sexual emotes are more offensive then saying "fuck".
Long story short, it's a game about drugs, violence, and the likes. If a clan rank called, "I fucked your uncles dog with a frying pan" offends you, you have no reason to be playing it in the first place.
The population is decreasing because of promises made that have not been kept, not much has changed. On project Earth (the private server that was up for a while, when kk decided to give everyone the server files back in patch 16X) , there was about triple the work done to improve performance, and the quality of the game, in about a week or so. Yes, they are trying, but obviously if some outsider can do more work in a week then they can do in what a year? Maybe there is something to consider with who you let work on it..
Long story short, stuff has been promised to people, it is not being done, and that is why populations are dropping back to terra numbers.
/thread
From the perspective of older players, I'd have to agree with Arzon to some extent. The game has bugs that have been alive and well for 10 years or longer, and the legacy of KK overshadows the accomplishments of the volunteer team. This keeps old fans from returning, which is a catch-22... People would play the game if more people played the game. I keep in touch with a group of players that outright refuse to spend time in game because they know the population is so small.
I wasn't around during the Project Earth days, but it sounds like I missed quite an interesting time. What is the status of availability for those 16X server files?
The population is decreasing because of promises made that have not been kept, not much has changed. On project Earth (the private server that was up for a while, when kk decided to give everyone the server files back in patch 16X) , there was about triple the work done to improve performance, and the quality of the game, in about a week or so. Yes, they are trying, but obviously if some outsider can do more work in a week then they can do in what a year? Maybe there is something to consider with who you let work on it..
Long story short, stuff has been promised to people, it is not being done, and that is why populations are dropping back to terra numbers.
/thread
Summarized: Bullshit.
btw. The "Project Earth" server files were illegally leaked by the project owner and this server was based on the buggy / exploitable Neocron Version #174. The simple DEF changes they made didn't solve the real problems.
To the promised stuff: As we already said (http://forum.neocron-game.com/showthread.php?152001-Development-Update-May-June-2013) we took a break from the current process around Neocron. Remember we are not a paid team and you don't pay us in any relation @ Neocron. This is why we are not commited to let your special dreams come true. There is much more work to do around Neocron and we are just a little team. In short: We have to priorize everything we do.
Please don't smash the argument to increase the team. I am tired about reading about useless uber-coder statements.
The game has bugs that have been alive and well for 10 years or longer, and the legacy of KK overshadows the accomplishments of the volunteer team.yes, but. the game is running smoother than ever before. ages-old bugs have been removed. tiny improvements have been added. and the best part: there is hope. NC is more alive than any time since 2005. i'm quite confident population will grow to 30% and more before the end of 13.
Tell 'em how you really feel, Zoltan!
I have to sympathize. Any group of volunteers that gives more than just their time is truly doing so as a labor of love.
The process of development is typically a protracted one, with different directions being mandated and dropped every step of the way. To fully appreciate the process from a project standpoint really does demand someone that has played a part with it.
There are plenty of posts where people offer advice relating to coding/release schedules/priorities that in the end most likely have a conflict of interest that really should disqualify them from contributing. Taking a player and turning them into a dev is a great way to bring someone in that understands the ins and outs, but it's potentially detrimental due to their special/unique interests. The level of dissatisfaction with the current state, or over-confidence of 'knowing the fix' could lead to any number of problems that I'm not even going to bother mentioning.
The root of the problem that Zoltan touches on, which from what I understand there is no current potential to fix, is the volunteer structure. It really behooves us as a community to find a way to support the volunteers with more than kind words -- there is only so much you can ask of someone that is not only offering their time for free, but also contributing their own money to keep the dream alive.
yes, but. the game is running smoother than ever before. ages-old bugs have been removed. tiny improvements have been added. and the best part: there is hope.
I absolutely agree. Little bugs like 1% SI, being unable to select 'trade' in the right-click menu periodically, and others still exist but are small. I wasn't attempting to make a jab, just wanted to make a small point in that 'old frustrations' are still valid in some respects.
I am sorry, but there were more then just def fixes involved..
Also how were they illegally leaked by the person running project earth?
They were in plain view in everyones neocron folder, since iirc patch 167..
I am not trying to hound you about not updating anything, I am just answering the question of why the populations are going down.
Also, if project earth was such a horrible thing, why is your current anticheat system based off the work that was done on project earth?
This universe is a point-in-case example of vulgarity. This is not the most liberal game/community by any means.
In my mind, the only 'censoring' that should be enforced should relate to harassment. Beyond that, the surly side of dystopian society would allow whatever to be whatever.
So if the clan STD has "AIDS" in their clan ranks, would you call that harassment?
Do they even know how much people suffer from a disease like that?
Is that what people want in a computer game, for entertainment, in Neocron?
There must be a line, and a rule. Because, as it looks, common sense is too hard to understand, and there must still be 90% 12 year olds playing like in the start of NC. Or maybe some people simply never grew up.
I know McDuck. I gave him weapons and helped him out. I don't find it offensive if his clan rank is "Don't fuck with McDuck", cause that's just fun. Nobody takes that serious.
However, in regard to STD, which is the abbrevation for Sexually Transmitted Diseases as everyone knows, and clan ranks that consist of these diseases I have no understanding for it. And it's a shame that this must even be discussed.
Over the course of the games life, rank names have never been a big issue. Suddenly a couple people cry about it, and we completely have to advert our attentions away from things that actually matter, so that 1 or 2 people don't get yelled at by their mom when she oversees a bad word pop up on the monitor? come on Ivan, and you others..
I am sorry, but there were more then just def fixes involved..
Also how were they illegally leaked by the person running project earth?
They were in plain view in everyones neocron folder, since iirc patch 167..
I am not trying to hound you about not updating anything, I am just answering the question of why the populations are going down.
Also, if project earth was such a horrible thing, why is your current anticheat system based off the work that was done on project earth?
What the hell is "Project Earth" ? I picked up the words and "Neocron server files" from your sentences. I ensure you... we don't need to take anything from a hacked p-server. Why? Simple answer: We open Visual Studio to implement features or bugfixes... the "Project Earth" guys opens just a Hex-Editor.
So please stop bullshitting here. There is no place for OT spam.
@ BTT
After more than 10 yrs of Neocron we should have learned that the playercount decreases during the summer time each year. I don't have any worrys about it.
So if the clan STD has "AIDS" in their clan ranks, would you call that harassment?
Do they even know how much people suffer from a disease like that?
Is that what people want in a computer game, for entertainment, in Neocron?
No, I wouldn't.
I would call it harassment if players were indeed harassing an individual who suffered from such a disease.
As for whether or not people search out this kind of immature expression in a game, I'd have to argue that it doesn't matter to me where or why they get their rocks off with it.
As someone who doesn't find the name STD / rank AIDS funny in the slightest, I'd have to indeed agree that whoever thought of that is probably an idiot with extremely poor taste. That said, if they want to look like a dolt, that is their prerogative. If you really are offended by it, I'd urge you to find a way to get back at them (eg: pking incessantly) or to do what people do in the real world and address the concern head on. If you can't talk sense into them, go back to the first suggestion.
Every day, all over the world, people are offended by things others would not bat an eye about. As a long-time (and thankfully, former) inhabitant of the bible belt, I've seen every form of dismay/distaste/hate/non-acceptance from the people there. It doesn't look good on them to try to impose their will on everyone as to how to live, dress, speak, behave; it doesn't look good on you, either.
IIRC, RP insult/offense is entirely permissible. The problem arises when it bleeds into a non-RP context. A further problem arises when people disagree on where that distinction falls.
Eh, RP be damned. I don't consider shit-talk harassment even if it is out of character. Harassment, in my book/relating to a game, is defined by the level of commitment of the offender. If someone spams your direct with RP shit talk without relief, it is still harassment. If someone says once in TRADE-NC that irl you're ugly and your mother dresses you funny, it is not.
This thread is why we can't have nice things.
MayhemMichael
13-09-13, 01:26
What's the population like these days? Summer is about to end and it's about to get chilly. Would be a perfect time to come out with a huge patch in a month or so.
What's the population like these days? Summer is about to end and it's about to get chilly. Would be a perfect time to come out with a huge patch in a month or so.
There are great things ahead. Read more about it here:
http://forum.neocron-game.com/showthread.php?152291-Development-Update-July-amp-August-2013
Summarized: Bullshit.
btw. The "Project Earth" server files were illegally leaked by the project owner and this server was based on the buggy / exploitable Neocron Version #174. The simple DEF changes they made didn't solve the real problems.
[/SIZE]
Sorry Zoltan but i have to cal BULLSHIT on you m8 Kurara is right...
Sorry Zoltan but i have to cal BULLSHIT on you m8 Kurara is right...
To be honest... you know nothing Faid.
This thread is why we can't have nice things.
Sadly yes.
And oh this Project Earth server. It was nothing special (Not everything worked for a start) and it was shutdown when Kirk threaten MrTrip with legal action. This is something which Faid and Arzon seem to have forgotten about in their arguments. In other words they had items which they were not allowed to have.
RogerRamjet
13-09-13, 11:16
What's project earth like?
What's project earth like?
It isn't worth to talk about it :)
Measured on the things we've already stated in the Dev-Updates there are many things in the pipeline we want to release but the critical factor is: Time. Please give us the chance to work on it instead on argumenting the same things with the same constant downers over all these years. I really wonder why they are still here if everything is so bad as they stated. Ah yes, to get you on the downer-wayne-train too ;)
All I can say there are still many plans around Neocron. A new webfrontend is hitting us, an all new api for our beloved fan page hoster too... Many cool features and bugfixes around Neocron. Watch out for new information soon (TM) and in the meanwhile: Play the game :)
Neocron isn't that death like some ppl trying to suggest this to you.
I don't understand why people bother to argue about this.
I don't even understand why I am replying.
Cursed Shadow
13-09-13, 14:18
I don't understand why people bother to argue about this.
I don't even understand why I am replying.
Let's do something productive. Make a thread for the next meet up in Amsterdam!
You were never on it brammers, you wouldn't know. Also that was not the point. But yes, Mrtrip did shut it down, but it had nothing to do with legal action, ect. He shut it down when kirk asked him to work for the team, to sort stuff out. He then started working for kk as Lykos, did a lot of work for the stability of the server, and pretty much did the entire anticheat system, then was dropped from the team, banned from the forums, and blacklisted, after doing what he could to help out. Zoltan knew about the server, so I don't get why he is denying it now.. he worked with 1 of the head people of the server, to bring you titan. After dropping lykos though, not much has improved.. which just goes to show who was doing the work..
I am in no way trying to cause drama, troll, ect. I had no intent of saying any of the things I have recently.. I just hate when a DEV blatantly lies to the publics face.
I know my posts will probably be deleted. Which just shows you would rather hide the problems, then come clean, and start fixing things up.
To continue on along with the term of corruption, since you pissed me off now with your lies..
"Mrtrip / Lykos" (Josh) was removed from your team, after you sucked what you could out of him, while he was trying to work on some balancing, and was testing it with some runners, on the retail server, who had no knowledge of who he was, at mc5, it was just a testing process.
Yet at the same time, Hoder can hang out in teamspeak / mumble all day with some of the uk players, or meet up with invinci and David at bars, and that's just k? Cheonoa (r.i.p not trying to stir shit just an example) was constantly in Ressi's teamspeak, and helping her with stuff ect.
Years ago there was a clan, called malevolent crackheads (not one of the lame wanna be spinoffs that have been made over the years, but the original). Their clan was being given gm spawned weapons for op fights, which eventually they did get banned, along with the gm being removed from the team. Yet near the end of terra, you could just put in a ticket, if it was true or false (this was tested, and proved to be true..) saying you lost your 5 slot gm ionic cannon or some shit, in a belt that fell through the ground in p2. Even when a belt never did drop, those runners were being given items from the gm who "got the belt back for them".
That shows how much care there actually is for the integrity of the game.
There was a problem with duping near the end of Terra. Many many runners got banned for it, and in the end, the server got shut down, being as the economy was just too fucked, and the server was not stable anyways, a fresh start was just better all in all.
The problem was though, that it took myself openly telling in ooc, after having a gm dm me asking how (fucking seriously?) to dupe. My account that I had told everyone how to dupe on though, surprise, surprise was never banned, and that account still isn't to this day tbh (even though I no longer play, so don't really care).
Or members of your dev team telling runners who gms main characters are. IE. gm_scanline aka tratos skarn (thank you trivaldi..).
Or a german runner, names will be left out.. (cough falk keegan cough cough). Who was woc on the 2nd day of titan, while the next highest runner, was /42, because he was afk leveling all day / night then had the bossroom to himself, since he was so far ahead, that is ok...?
and the corruption just goes on and on... let me bring up an email here...
"
From: Neocron Support Team <account@neocron.info>
To: <BLANKED FOR CONFIDENTIALITY>
Sent: Saturday, September 8, 2012 6:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Ticket#<BLANKED FOR CONFIDENTIALITY>] accounts
Dear William,
Thank you for your request. All the accounts are already registered to this email address. However after some extensive research and one heck of a rapsheet, I have found that these accounts were banned for duping, hate speak towards Germans, telling other people how to dupe in public chat on Terra***, abuse and threats toward GMs and Moderators. They will not be unbanned; eg they are permanently banned. Even a few forum accounts tied to these in-game accounts are banned for abuse. To give you an idea of the time span I'm looking at with the reports I've read regarding these accounts we're looking at 2004 to 2012. The first ban being made in 2004 by Odin.
IfI would suggest creating a new account with a new email address and following the rules to the letter :)
Sorry for the delayed response, but I work 8 hours a day M-F; we're all volunteers here now with Neocron.
With kind regards,
Danae
Neocron Support Team
N E O C R O N . C O M "
OPENLY STATING BAN EVASION IS ALLOWED........
There Zoltan, what lies are going you going to say now to cover that shit up.
And no, this isn't to troll, this isn't to cause drama. I just want you to be honest for once. Please.
A reply would be much respected :)
***the account I told people how to dupe on was not banned, some of my others were though
You know Kurara, by reading all the stuff that you wrote, and making my own interpretations and some assumptions, I can't really find anything that was done wrong by the support crew, beside the GM spawned weapons.
Then again, we're all humans and some make mistakes. The support crew should not be held accountable for the fuck-up of one. I'm sure these guys were removed or corrected and now the support crew is working to make something awesome for everyone to play (free of charge).
Would it be too hard to leave the past for what it is and enjoy the game?
If you can't do this... with all due respect, just go away. You're not making anything better.
so.. you are saying gm's asking how to dupe, for their player account is acceptable, informing a known ban evader it is ok to play is acceptable, releasing personal information to the public is acceptable, ect? Did you actually read anything, or just skim it?
Also as I stated, I just don't like the blatantly lies from the dev team. I want them to be honest about stuff. Yes, I am a scumbag, an asshole ect, but at least I am not a liar. That is one thing I can be proud of.
I think once the team owns up to their faults, then they can finally be at peace, be more open and honest to the community, and improvements will start coming.
Could you please lock this thread, so only kk members can respond, it has been derailed a bit, and the random posts like maze here will just derail it more.
I just want to see a response from Zoltan..
Manuel Moonez
13-09-13, 16:23
Could you please lock this thread, so only kk members can respond, it has been derailed a bit, and the random posts like maze here will just derail it more.
I just want to see a response from Zoltan..
So, in one post you shame a guy who exploited his GM powers to help individual players, and now you´re asking for the thread to be locked down because you dislike other people than Z posting here?
Maze is a respected guy in the NC community and i agree with his opinion on the matter.
Could you please lock this thread, so only kk members can respond, it has been derailed a bit, and the random posts like maze here will just derail it more.
I just want to see a response from Zoltan..
The original subject for this thread is the concern for server population. If anything derails it's your cry for Zoltan.
If you're looking to hold a conversation with Zoltan, drop him a PM or talk to him on IRC.
My post was far from random, instead it was a direct reply to your previous comments.
Maze is a respected guy in the NC community and i agree with his opinion on the matter.
Love you Manu!
Maze's post is actually the only constructive one that doesn't look like a dramatic episode of Law & order on this very page.
I have to say the new staff is doing a very good job so far.
To get back on the matter at hand here, we need to be patient I guess. We need a balance patch and tweaks to the PvE content. Maybe they aren't even necessary, but changes would be nice for the lot of us who have experienced Neocron for well over 10 years.
Let me please summarise:
The rule regarding language, especially in titles, has been clarified. Also, the rules are not a valid topic of discussion.
We don't make a point of allowing people into the team and then burning them for no good reason, especially if they're allegedly a coding god. Also, our "hiring and firing" policy and reasons for same are not appropriate topics for public discussion.
The population is steady but we expect it to increase when the new features coming down the pipe are realised.
Thank you for your contribution and this thread is now closed. Please bear in mind that the inevitable new threads that spring up to continue discussing topics that are not fit subjects for discussion will be closed/removed and possible action taken if things go too far - this is clearly silly season, after all. It's really not worth it. ;)
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