View Full Version : Idea for OP fights
I had this idea while thinking up ways to balance another idea, basically the idea is to add a bunker in OP zones which people taking a OP can hack first.
The bunker would server as a place to attack from, it would basically be like a UG containing a GR they can use while they own the bunker so they have a place to regroup at.
The reason for this idea is that right now the UG means that the attackers find it hard to clear out the defenders as they need to hack the Op before they can keep them away but 1 wipe of the attackers and they have a long way to go to get back again. This would mean they have a closer location to regroup at, repoke, and get back into the action!
The hope would be that it would make OP wars last longer as people would be less likely to give up after 1 wipe as they could GR to close by anyway. Another idea is that they could reduce the si of people who die in the OP zone during the battle so people could fight more (this is more of a added idea that could not work).
Of course you may say *but that seems silly how would you stop them!* well the answer is simple, the bunker would be hackable! when you wipe the attackers the defenders can take the attack to them and retake the bunker wiping out everybody inside (also of course making the GR unusable).
Additional thoughts or ideas are of course welcome, the idea of this thread is to suggest a way to make OP fights more engaging and enjoyable so if anybody has other ways they think they could be improved feel free to post them here.
Doc Holliday
13-06-13, 04:50
i think it would grind in to a stalemate.
If the attacking team is unable to get the hacks done in time then they dont deserve the op. imo. hack the op get the ug open and then clear em out or force them to gr. Its all a question of tactics as you protect the hacker.
Load_HeavyLoad
13-06-13, 08:53
the whole point of attacking is that you have no defense - giving the attackers somewhere to hide would mean that op fights would be endless
fixing the environmental bugs would solve a lot of problems. then remove the ppu from the game. (scnr)
Kane Gregory
13-06-13, 10:04
fixing the environmental bugs would solve a lot of problems. then remove the ppu from the game. (scnr)
This!
The biggest problem in op-fight is the hack-term, because most of them are not solid. This has two advantages for the hackers:
a) You have to aim into the term to spot the hacker (not possible of each angle around the hacker)
b) There are spots where you can't hit the hacker or only badly. You have to push the hacker out of the pillars of the hackterm to
do any damage.
For Hackers it's an advantage because they have more time for their hacking
For PPUs it's a great place to ressurrect their ppl because the damage input is lowered because of the adressed issues.
They next problem in the environment are the trees. It's great that ppl can't combine with trees animore but the "hitbox" of the trees is sometimes too big so u can't aim players from different angles.
It would help (for now) to remove trees from outposts.
It wouldn't make the fight endless as you could hack the bunker to wipe them out it would just make it more of a prolonged battle. The whole idea basically hinges on if people like OP wars lasting a short time or if they want them to last a bit longer
Doc Holliday
13-06-13, 15:17
fixing the environmental bugs would solve a lot of problems. then remove the ppu from the game. (scnr)
[Edited]
[Edited]
[Edited]. You may not agree with his ideas you may think they are the worst ideas in the world but he still has the right to put them forward and let the community and the devs decide if they hold any merit.
Or is NC more of a dictatorship where you can have an opinion as long as its the right opinion otherwise you get put in jail (or in the case of this forum banned from posting)
J@ck on Cr@ck
13-06-13, 16:07
he still has the right to put them forward and let the community and the devs decide if they hold any merit.
Yes, but not in every fucking thread! And from what I read the majority of the people who have spoken on the matter are against this idea. So dont bring this crap up in every single thread, because there already is a separate thread.
Not sure what to make of the bunker idea. I think OP fights will simply drag on forever. You could simply attack some OP close to a public GR and then expand from there, if you have problems with reinforcements.
fixing the environmental bugs would solve a lot of problems.
I could only dream of a time when hack terms are solid, trees are solid, etc etc.
Doc Holliday
14-06-13, 01:27
Yes, but not in every fucking thread!
i probably should have just said that. thank you jack.
[Edited]
I quite like the idea. The time to regroup is too long (genrepping somewhere safe, getting poked and repaired, waiting for SI, genrepping to the nearest open GR, waiting for SI, running to the outpost). This could easily last 15 minutes to half an hour.
The reason why I like the idea:
We would have more room for tactics. At the moment you just have the following tactics to choose from: Barreling the Underground or not barreling the underground. Bringing more Pistol Spies or playing the characters you really want to play.
Attackers could decide wether or not to hack the bunker first. They could choose to just hack the OP in a hurry without additional safety. Or they divide their teams to hack both "hackterms" at the same time.
I mean the current tactics are more or less absolutely pointless and there are no real decisions to make.
We would have more room for tactics. At the moment you just have the following tactics to choose from: Barreling the Underground or not barreling the underground.
I totally agree with you on this, quite often its a case of barrelling or not based on mutual respect from previous fights.
Why not make the UG itself hackable?
Problem with that is people would just hack the UG first then there would be no point for a UG, unless you make people need to hack a certain number of layers first, but good luck hacking the UG as people would always target the hacker first unless it was a long distance off from the UG
Problem with that is people would just hack the UG first then there would be no point for a UG, unless you make people need to hack a certain number of layers first, but good luck hacking the UG as people would always target the hacker first unless it was a long distance off from the UG
How about this?
1.) You need to hack the first layer of the OP
2.) After a few Minutes you can also hack the UG (exact numbers may vary)
3.) You need to hack three layers to get in the UG with 3 diff hackers (exact numbers may vary)
This would also stop the attackers barreling the UG cause they dont want to kill their hackers and it'd stop UG whoring too.
Feel free to suggest yours.
How about this?
1.) You need to hack the first layer of the OP
2.) After a few Minutes you can also hack the UG (exact numbers may vary)
3.) You need to hack three layers to get in the UG with 3 diff hackers (exact numbers may vary)
This would also stop the attackers barreling the UG cause they dont want to kill their hackers and it'd stop UG whoring too.
Feel free to suggest yours.
The only problem I forsee is where the hack term for the UG would be as it can't be just hacking the UG or people would constantly come up and kill the hacker, as such that would mean it would need to be further away so it wouldn't help with stopping barreling. People manage to reach the hack term and kill the hacker hiding in the terminal so a guy standing right next to the UG wouldn't last 5 seconds.
That is just a chance you would have to take. At least something like this would give you a tactic choice.
Barrel the UG like a noob, or try to prevent the defending team from UG whoring..
I like it.
Uh and Pro-tip: You could use a PPU to hack the UG..
The only problem I forsee is where the hack term for the UG would be as it can't be just hacking the UG or people would constantly come up and kill the hacker, as such that would mean it would need to be further away so it wouldn't help with stopping barreling. People manage to reach the hack term and kill the hacker hiding in the terminal so a guy standing right next to the UG wouldn't last 5 seconds.
It does not have to be a hackterm.
The "hack spot" can be right next to the entrance to the UG, or on it.
One example for this are the hackable doors and entrances in the sewers.
Uh and Pro-tip: You could use a PPU to hack the UG..
i wonder if it would be possible to win an op fight with nothing but ppus, on either side. could someone please try that? :D gogo ff!
hmmm ok I am convinced it could be interesting to have the option, that way if a defending team is so awful that they just cause annoyance you could have the option to try to take over the UG, OR if you do such a complete wipe that you have a free gap to try it. Would also convince the defenders to pop their heads out more often to make sure nobody is trying to hack the UG.
Basically the main aim of this thread is to make OP wars more interesting =) right now it's just a bit samey.
Why not create a long tunnel into the OP. This sewer/old cavern tunnel is in the same zone as the UG, and the entrance is elsewhere in the OP zone far from the UG, or even in an ajacent zone
For example, this has 10 doors that have to be hacked to travel in one direction towards the UG, and can be hacked by anyone. Hacking success needs higher HCK the closer to a UG (may HCK 200). Successful hacks on doors cause alarm messages to be sent, just like HackTerm hacks send messages.
One twist is that the 1st door has to be hacked to be opened in both directions, so your team may well be stuck down there if your hacker is killed by the defenders, or another hacker would have to help you out from the other direction :-)
This gives the attackers access into the UG, but with great risks.
i wonder if it would be possible to win an op fight with nothing but ppus, on either side. could someone please try that? :D gogo ff!
Well, I have tried it with nothing but PPU's and Kami droners.. Not a lot of fun, but very viable.
William Antrim
14-06-13, 17:36
This whole thing sounds far too complicated to me. Hack this door hack that op. Here is an idea:
Remove all gr locks. Remove ug grs. Make the op defenders gr in from a different gr and come fight for their op on a level playig field. Nowhere to run and nowhere to hide for anyone.
Real PvP.
The problem with OPs (for me at least) is that right now the fighting is to simple thus why I want it to have a bit more to it, right now its basically GR in hack the term and aoe the UG. Defenders its kill the hacker kill the people. Theres no real strategy just a big mindless brawl while 1 person tries to hack.
These changes would add some kind of strategy as people could get a close by safe spot but it would warn of their coming before the first layer, also the defenders wouldn't have such a easy time of it as they couldn't just easily slowly wittle people then when they eventually wipe be pretty safe as they wont bother to come back or else will take 30mins to do so.
William Antrim
14-06-13, 18:31
I think that it is too complicated and too much of a chore. It would ruin the fun for me and the pvp. The idea hopefully is to encourage pvp not reduce it to how many hackers a team has instead of how many ppus they have.
Do you know why the ops are all owned by one clan? because it is a massive ball ache to have them change hands. A long time ago things used to be more simple. Yeah sure there was more ninja hacking but then there still is now. That will never change but the clans back then whined like fuck that they got ninja-ed and we got left with the op system we have today. It is shit.
The old way was better, ops changed hands daily and MORE people turned up to fight. Sure some ninja-ed from others but that timeless defence was always used. Get some people online who play later.
Smaller clans used to be able to own ops (even for a short time till they got ninja-ed back) but it was more fun than the stagnant bullshit system we have today. Nothing ever changes in nc. That is why it gets so dull.
If everyone could gr everywhere more fights would occur imo.
Move the UG behind the GR ! So the defending team has the option to be there in time ! This would also stop Sync Wars like in
Crest Uplink. Barreling the UG will cause the attacker to have less protection for the hacker (more tatics possible!)
Clean the Outposts (Hackterm,Gogu,Trees,Boxes,Houses)! Redesign Outposts !
Example for well designed Outpost could be Northstar without the trader buildings and gogus.
Another idea would be to divide the hackterm to 3 small terms. One for each hack spreaded over the OP.
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