Should WOC weapons have random stats/slots again?

[J@ck on Cr@ck]

I find it pretty boring that WOC weapons come all arti and with 3+ slots.
I remember when you could only do the woc missions once/char and when they had rather crappy stats. Not sure why it got changed, but I have to say I liked it better the old way.
If reverted back this might help tone down woc weapon damage and bring them more into line with other weapons.

Anyway I would like to hear your thoughts on this, so what do you guys think?

[Load_HeavyLoad]

maybe make it random stats and slots but make them repeatable? i'd be pretty fucked off if I did a mission the only time i could do it and it was 0 slot shit stats

[Kanedax]

They are repeatable. You can run AK missions all day my friend.

[Faid]

lol the amount of times I ran the xbow mission trying for good stats...

I don't think you could revert back now without doing something about all the woc weapons already out there.

[William Antrim]

Leave Woc weapons as they are and remove the 5% damage bonus they get over rare weapons and you are fine. The added grind of getting to woc and then doing that mission for whichever gun it is should be rewarded by getting a gun with all 120% stats.

[Faid]

Just throwing this out there, maybe add the woc weapons, or future new woc weapons, to the rare pool and implement the addHull for them. That way random slots and stats would make them more unique, but adding the extra hull would make them harder to obtain.

[DIABLO666]

Leave Woc weapons as they are and remove the 5% damage bonus they get over rare weapons and you are fine. The added grind of getting to woc and then doing that mission for whichever gun it is should be rewarded by getting a gun with all 120% stats.

And its not a grind getting the rare parts for other rares? I literally got about 200 rare parts and non of them were CS bits that I needed, why don't I get a 5 slot all arti CS when I finally get one with that kind of grind? They definitely shouldn't have an advantage as it ruins variety if woc guns are just better in every way, you should be able to use the wyatt and still be competitive with it.

Best way to do that is probably make higher guns harder to cap, that way the lower guns people can cap aim and damage easily but better gun peoples need to go VERY squishy in order to cap. Right now with drugs and ppu buffs its pretty easy to cap guns, with buffs I can get about 4% damage from cap on ion cannon (as in 176% damage, believe 180% is cap) and thats not even with a squishy build really, if I was going super squishy I could probably easily cap other guns to. If people want to use a high stat gun as well as a low stat one they should need to make some sacrifices in other areas to do it.

[Deus Ex Machina]

The added grind of getting to wocThats the real problem. These guns are so useful, that many consider it to grind to WOC. It WAS intended to be reached by long playing I think.
And besides the usefulness of the WOC weapons it really is the accessibility of the weapons that makes them problematic. You can easily get one, with high slots and Artifact stats. The runs aren't that much trouble, and after them you have the weapon you wanted. You do not even need WOC for that. They have no inherent worth because of that, its far harder to get a complete Rare Weapon, if you try to get the weapon the "real" way and not trade it.
WOC weapons do not need a researcher or a constructor.

I would think making WOC weapons less accessible and well built isn't bad for the game. Random stats would be a first step.

One other idea: Make players exchange a built Rare weapon (ANY) for a WOC weapon. It gets the stats and slots of the weapon. Of course there would be all the crap Rares traded for the WOC weapons, but at least there would be something.
Or maybe there are only several Rares that can be traded for each WOC weapon. Say Wyatt Earp, Liberator, Judje, Steiner F.P. and Slasher can be traded against a Freeman Pistol after the Run. Just as example.

[slith]

...as in 176% damage, believe 180% is cap...It is 200%. Good luck reaching that :)

[Ascension]

Leave Woc weapons as they are and remove the 5% damage bonus they get over rare weapons and you are fine. The added grind of getting to woc and then doing that mission for whichever gun it is should be rewarded by getting a gun with all 120% stats.

At least you get a WOC level weapon, all APU's get is a marginally better PA, and the constant DM's for spy buff in Plaza, lol.

[Load_HeavyLoad]

One other idea: Make players exchange a built Rare weapon (ANY) for a WOC weapon. It gets the stats and slots of the weapon. Of course there would be all the crap Rares traded for the WOC weapons, but at least there would be something.Or maybe there are only several Rares that can be traded for each WOC weapon. Say Wyatt Earp, Liberator, Judje, Steiner F.P. and Slasher can be traded against a Freeman Pistol after the Run. Just as example.

I quite like this idea, maybe something along the lines of WoC PA, do the (already standing0 mission, get the corresponding weapon and then pay 2mil for it to be upgraded with the Ceres Wisdom

[William Antrim]

I cannot understand how me taking my plasma pistol to 3 crusty old fellas in the swamps would lead to them giving me a 700 year old beretta though.


That would be like taking my Ipod to the Apple shop and walking out with a brand new Gramophone. If you want to make Woc weapons tough to get hold of then put them all up in DOY. Put all of the quests there - or at least make them all start there and send people through DOY (Back up gun quest etc) AND send them out in to the world like traditional epics.

Make the mission take hours or days even but not as short as the AK quest is currently.

[Load_HeavyLoad]

maybe the weapon you get back could have the same skin and what you put in (maybe with some WoC lines or whtever but thats just aesthetic) but take beretta/freeman ammo and do the corresponding damage thus adding some sort of customisation to what weapon you like the look/sound/feel of most

[Manuel Moonez]

Thats the real problem. These guns are so useful, that many consider it to grind to WOC. It WAS intended to be reached by long playing I think.
And besides the usefulness of the WOC weapons it really is the accessibility of the weapons that makes them problematic. You can easily get one, with high slots and Artifact stats. The runs aren't that much trouble, and after them you have the weapon you wanted. You do not even need WOC for that. They have no inherent worth because of that, its far harder to get a complete Rare Weapon, if you try to get the weapon the "real" way and not trade it.
WOC weapons do not need a researcher or a constructor.

I would think making WOC weapons less accessible and well built isn't bad for the game. Random stats would be a first step.

One other idea: Make players exchange a built Rare weapon (ANY) for a WOC weapon. It gets the stats and slots of the weapon. Of course there would be all the crap Rares traded for the WOC weapons, but at least there would be something.
Or maybe there are only several Rares that can be traded for each WOC weapon. Say Wyatt Earp, Liberator, Judje, Steiner F.P. and Slasher can be traded against a Freeman Pistol after the Run. Just as example.

Apart from realism concerns this sounds like a sweet idea. 50% of my rarelist is just clutter atm (a sad state of affairs!).

[The Red Guy]

the WOC necessity got out of hand imo. bring back the rares and remake the WOC weapons. Give them a more unique and fancy appearance but no advantage over the rares.

[OT]AND please get rid of the idea that AKs and the current WOC weapons need the wisdom of a ceres disc. The AK is the lamest and most unoriginal weapon ever to implement. According to NC lore mankind made several missions to mars at the beginning of the 21st century and I bet they also invented some more sophisticated weapons (like the crossbow or the enhancement for Power Armor).

[DIABLO666]

It is 200%. Good luck reaching that :)

Ah ok, still though the gap between lower level and higher level guns should still be greater, would be the best way to make all the guns viable (in the way I described) as otherwise all they could do is make all the guns do the same damage which would make it pointless getting the higher level guns or just make the higher level guns better in which case what idiot would ever use a non woc gun.

[eNTi]

i always found the notion strange, that woc weapons have less requirements than non-woc rares, do not suffer from the revealing effects of the rare weapons' swirl, do more damage and only require a measly quest to get a perfect one with guaranteed slots. granted you need to farm a few items, but hey... just get a droner. it's easy.

the fact that more futuristic weapons like plasma guns are weaker than some stupid ak47 is just borderline stupid. i think woc was the last attempt of kk to troll the community before giving up. half-hearted, half-finished bullshit.

[Deus Ex Machina]

I cannot understand how me taking my plasma pistol to 3 crusty old fellas in the swamps would lead to them giving me a 700 year old beretta though.Swamps? I thought the weapons are mostly gotten outside the swamps? I guess I must update my knowledge again by running all those.
But to the question at hand, I thought along the lines of: You get that nice weapon, but the person giving it to you wants something effective to use too. As simple and unoriginal as that. So not a conversion, but an exchange, where the NPC keeps your weapon but gives you the WOC one.
Maybe the NPC hasn't mastered WOC or so, because NPCs die too often ;-)

EDIT: Clarified my post a bit

[Load_HeavyLoad]

Swamps? I thought the weapons are mostly gotten outside the swamps? I guess I must update my knowledge again by running all those.
But to the question at hand, I thought along the lines of: You get that nice weapon, but the person giving it to you wants something effective to use too. As simple and unoriginal as that. Maybe hasn't mastered WOC or so, because NPCs die too often ;-)

I think he was referring to the idea of bringing rares to the WoC guy to get them converted to Woc weps

[William Antrim]

I was yes.