View Full Version : OP PVP as seen by a noob
so i've recently started to join clans an do op fights. more seasoned players will know about these things but gotten used to them as a part of the game mechanic. i on the other hand find them pure crap and i'm starting to think that the much touted "end game" is broken beyond repair:
1. if you want to win, bring more ppus.
2. if you want to win, bring more spies with stealth.
3. if you want to win, bring more ppus.
4. if you want to win, know the location and where to BUG or CLIP.
5. if you want to win, bring more ppus.
ppus will make you almost invulnerable, so you will need more ppus to remove the invul to use antis. ppus that are shielded can take almost any beating and rez someone while under fire by countless players.
skill in op fights evolve around the following:
1. jitter around like stupid,
2. use every bug in the environment possible to break target lock,
3. use stealth to break target lock,
4. know when to go ug,
5. let your ppus know where you are and what you are missing,
6. cheat and not get caught
the conclusions are rather disturbing:
1. ppus really serve no purpose in this game. they are the solution to everything and yet achieve nothing that enriches the experience of pvp in any significant way. the fun fights happen, where no ppus are involved.
2. aiming is broken. it never made sense to begin with, but it becomes so much clearer in op fights, where everything is so much faster. aiming doesn't serve any purpose and it's NO FUN. it's a glorified "Moorhuhn (aka Crazy Chickens)" simulator with a painful delay. most of the time my targets will have clipped through something or gone to stealth before i'm done aiming.
3. bugs are killing the fun. constantly running in and out of trees and the hackterm so that you break the target lock is beyond stupid. ofc everyone does it, because that's obviously the game and you will lose if you don't. this is so ridiculous. it's actually skill to know when to clip/bug around!
4. cheating. i wouldn't say it's rampart, but it definitely seems to happen. some people seem to use cheats, but it can't be proven. i've heard from several sources that certain people do cheat and that it's an open secret, but that since it can't be proven, nothing can be done. i don't think anything else can be said here. it's just sad.
5. movement and lack of proper physics makes the whole fighting a very unpleasant experience altogether. it just doesn't feel good, it looks ridiculous and it favors certain classes, play styles and weapons. i understand that neocron has to make the bridge between rpg and fps but it does both poorly.
i'll give it a few more tries, before i will probably just leave op fighting to the vets again, who have seemingly come to terms with all the problems a long time ago. i suppose just swallowing the bitter pill is the only choice, if you want to partake in the "supposed endgame" of neocron and it's a very bitter pill.
I can tell you that I've experienced PvP the same as you (apart from the cheating, I haven't experienced it).
That's when I decided to stop and just play a PPU instead. Now all I do is buff and heal people ^^
1: Yes PPUs do server a purpose.. Without them, the run to an OP would take longer, than the fight itself..
2: Nothing wrong with aiming in NC.
3: This IS a problem yeah (Make objects like hackterms and trees solid or remove them!!).
4: I havent seen any cheating (in PVP) so far tbh. Not anything obvious anyways..
5: Just like the aiming, it just takes some time getting used to. Although after the speed nerf, some people seems to be warping sometimes, but that could just be on my end.
Which character did you opfight with btw?
using a tank atm. trying to get my pe ready, but i think that will be even messier.
using a tank atm. trying to get my pe ready, but i think that will be even messier.
You have to be pretty good on tank, to enjoy opfighting with them IMO.
Slower reticle and no stealth (and after the speed nerf, no way of escaping), makes tanks the first target most of the time.
On the PE you will at least have a Jones Stealth.
On a sidenote about the PE, I would probably use Desperado (103 dex) if I were you - unless you go for WoC ofc.
2: Nothing wrong with aiming in NC.
i suppose it depends on your point of view. it's ofc a pure mechanical choice which in the end doesn't have to make sense in a real world context. it's a game after all. my approach though is different. i don't "understand" the notion, that i have to aim AGAIN when i target something and something else blocks my target by simply standing before it or even only rushing by in a second.
aiming in neocron only ever makes sense in relatively complex scenarios in real life. i've shot guns and i'm a proficient archer myself. if something runs into my aim i won't miss, i will just hit the something instead. this is especially true for guns, to a lesser extend for bows.
Doc Holliday
05-06-13, 13:11
Have you lost a lot and decided to come to the forum and complain? Which clan did u join? who do u fight with? Have you won any fights or were they all losses?
Have you lost a lot and decided to come to the forum and complain? Which clan did u join? who do u fight with? Have you won any fights or were they all losses?
you want context? well we've lost and won. i've not lost items or anything. actually i got more items after the fights to be of more use next time. yes i've come to the forums to complain. i thought the tags made that clear enough. i do however not complain about specific people. it's just the whole experience. the outcome pretty much depended on who had more ppus in their team.
Jack Silver
05-06-13, 13:22
Hello! Dropout is right... u need to be very good to play a Tank in opfights.
there are 2 ways to play him good.
1. focus the good enemys down as fast as u can.
2. if u cant focus them all out u need to know how to run and where to breake the aim of the enemys...(i prefer hackterms)... its stupid but thats to only way to alive... or bring mass Tanks to the fight :)
hope the tank will get some more survivalabilitys in opfights soon
Shagon
Load_HeavyLoad
05-06-13, 13:27
As walker said the desperado is a good shout, I am having a good time with the tl81 pulse laser rifle - not tested in opfighting yet though
As walker said the desperado is a good shout, I am having a good time with the tl81 pulse laser rifle - not tested in opfighting yet though
The tl81 pulselaser is good as long as people Arent buffed (IMO), so not that great in opfights sadly.
Load_HeavyLoad
05-06-13, 13:34
heres to hoping the RoG gets a boost
Sadly true for the most part clipping around stuff is the main tactic in pvp and I've always found ppus to ruin the fun, the only good thing a ppu does in my experience is to rez so fights last.
As for cheating well it very much still exists, I wont name name but theres been fights quite recently where very obvious cheating has happened. Hopefully these people will be banned soon or at least a proper investigation will take place to try and stop them at least.
Doc Holliday
05-06-13, 14:17
maybe your dying too quickly or maybe you just need to accept defeats at times to players who are better than you. Crying on the forum doesn't help. Maybe your clan isn't organized enough to overcome the better clans.
Tanks are fun to play. i love playing mine at an op fight. i don't care if i get focused. fought in pp3 the other day vs 3 spies who couldn't bring me down as i was ppued for. (ty bro) If your getting focused and brought down fast find the main person hurting you. shoot them rather than running is one valid trick. you might get them to run off or put the gun away long enough so you can get a heal off.
to me this just looks and sounds like a whine thread cause you got beaten. nothing more. If you want genuine help try asking for it rather than ranting about stuff. Also try asking your clan. or find one that knows how to op fight. im wondering now if you joined virus.
the fact you wrote no i didn't lose any items made me giggle seeing how you are at an op fight. you don't drop belts in war zones....
maybe your dying too quickly or maybe you just need to accept defeats at times to players who are better than you. Crying on the forum doesn't help. Maybe your clan isn't organized enough to overcome the better clans.
i'm not dying too quickly... if anything i'm not dying fast enough because of all the heals an buffs from ppus. my clan is very much organized and crying on the forum helps me a great deal thank you.
to me this just looks and sounds like a whine thread cause you got beaten. nothing more. If you want genuine help try asking for it rather than ranting about stuff. Also try asking your clan. or find one that knows how to op fight. im wondering now if you joined virus.
yeah... everything does to you. i'm not even denying this is a whine thread, only that winning or losing in an op fight as a noob pretty much doesn't bother me. i did my part. took some fire off better dds and hurt some enemies. some died, i died. they were rezzed, i was was rezzed. i didn't feel especially good after winning or bad after losing. i just had the "meh feeling" of this wasn't really fun or engaging either way. i slept over it and wrote my rant the day after. enough time to reflect and even calm down if that had been an issue in the first place.
the fact you wrote no i didn't lose any items made me giggle seeing how you are at an op fight. you don't drop belts in war zones....
you are so pro it makes me want me have your babies.
ppus will make you almost invulnerable, so you will need more ppus to remove the invul to use antis. ppus that are shielded can take almost any beating and rez someone while under fire by countless players.
Playing APU this is so far from the truth, even fully buffed you still drop like a bag of shit, and we no longer have the joy of debuff either. Clan mates tend to go on about APU's only viable for defence due to being so vulnerable.
You have to be pretty good on tank, to enjoy opfighting with them IMO.
Slower reticle and no stealth (and after the speed nerf, no way of escaping), makes tanks the first target most of the time.
As a WOC APU with a green/orange swirly out, I always seem to feel the full force of an attack first, so I tend to often be a UG whore to allow for my heal to catch up with the sheer damage inflicted.
Playing APU this is so far from the truth, even fully buffed you still drop like a bag of shit, and we no longer have the joy of debuff either. Clan mates tend to go on about APU's only viable for defence due to being so vulnerable.
As a WOC APU with a green/orange swirly out, I always seem to feel the full force of an attack first, so I tend to often be a UG whore to allow for my heal to catch up with the sheer damage inflicted.
no doubt apus got the lower end of the stick atm. there's a good reason i don't play one in pvp in the first place.
Load_HeavyLoad
05-06-13, 14:35
i would suggest you try another game if you get no satisfaction at all from winning or pissed off at losing - maybe a game when everyone is a winner and everyone gets a prize? [ edited ]
no doubt apus got the lower end of the stick atm. there's a good reason i don't play one in pvp in the first place.
Indeed, I've played APU since way back in NC 1 and have always loved playing the class, they're in a dire state at the moment though, we might dish out some high damage, but with the low freq, every other class has higher DPS. We can no longer stack anything either so its pretty painful.
I've seen the APU's fall from grace, but It will always be my main, rather than playing flavour of the month (what ever is most OP) at the time.
i would suggest you try another game if you get no satisfaction at all from winning or pissed off at losing - [ edited ]
Well this couldn't be further from the truth from what I made of it, sounds like he wants battles that are more intense and exciting not just people clipping and the age old he who has the most ppus wins.
[ edited ]
Load_HeavyLoad
05-06-13, 14:53
i actually tend to stand outside the doors screaming at people who refuse to leave the confines of club veronique, although I do most of my pvping whilst WBing in and around battledome.
what i certainly dont do is get pumped by someone then come crying to the development forum screaming for them to be nerfed and for myself to be boosted to compensate for lack of ability
No I'm betting you also play the most OP thing you can find then come on here to call anybody who need who suggests a balance while offering no helpful feedback as you know your in the wrong =p
[ edited ]
Doc Holliday
05-06-13, 15:44
snip
put your dummy back in and put your toys back in the sandbox. I asked for more info in the first post to try and offer at least some advice from experience of op fights and you just continued to rant. so i wrote the second post and now you picked it apart.
Do you want help or do u want to continue to spam shit at us all with the complaining.
some of your post above which i declined to quote is quite bizarre. not dying fast enough? 8| Second you havent said which clan your in which makes me wonder why but thats largely irrelevant at this point.
You continued on the rant about how winning or losing doesnt matter to you yet you felt the need to spew all this vitriol about it on the forum after.
Enti your a walking contradiction. seriously.
What did u intend to get out of this thread may i ask? Cause you confused the hell out of me. I think you need a blogging site to get some of this off your chest rather than the nc forum where people like me will be condescending twats to you as we are so pro as you put it. :)
peace.
put your dummy back in and put your toys back in the sandbox. I asked for more info in the first post to try and offer at least some advice from experience of op fights and you just continued to rant. so i wrote the second post and now you picked it apart.
i gave you more information, but i won't give you names.
Do you want help or do u want to continue to spam shit at us all with the complaining.
actually no, i don't want help. i want a discussion about the issues and if others find those are actually problems. i perceive them as such. i never asked for advice or help in this regard. i stated facts or at least as they presented them to me and i wasn't content with them. thus the rant.
some of your post above which i declined to quote is quite bizarre. not dying fast enough? 8| Second you havent said which clan your in which makes me wonder why but thats largely irrelevant at this point.
yes. not dying fast enough. it's not my "skill" that keeps me alive. it's clipping/bugging and having superior numbers/ppus. if someone is properly drugged/injected/shielded firing at them seems pretty pointless.
You continued on the rant about how winning or losing doesnt matter to you yet you felt the need to spew all this vitriol about it on the forum after.
because the combat sucks? i don't care if i win or lose, because the fighting itself isn't fun. it's a chaotic swirl of people jittering around, bugging through objects, stealthing and running for cover where you can't follow them. ppus standing in the midst of 5 dds firing away at them while they rez. especially if they stand within the hackterm, bugging in and out of the texture. this isn't fighting other players. this is fighting the engine of the game.
Enti your a walking contradiction. seriously.
What did u intend to get out of this thread may i ask? Cause you confused the hell out of me. I think you need a blogging site to get some of this off your chest rather than the nc forum where people like me will be condescending twats to you as we are so pro as you put it. :)
peace.
i want to discuss the issues at hand. i want to point out what's wrong with this game and why i feel it's wrong. all from the point of view from a player that is pretty noob when it comes to this aspect of the game. other new players might feel the same way and will most likely be turned off by that completely. if nc3 ever sees the light of day, things like that should be considered, imho.
of course we could just make rl picture thread of our cats. that would work as well.
DigestiveBiscui
05-06-13, 16:58
You seem like a bit too much of a noob to comment if undergrounds are not in your problems list
You seem like a bit too much of a noob to comment if undergrounds are not in your problems list
i mentioned ugs, but they are not essential to winning. as i ALREADY STATED it's annoying that you can't follow your enemy down there. if you got 2 or 3 ppus more in your team you will win regardless of ug.
if the team is of equal composition they are surely irritating as hell. with my limited experience, i've yet to see that happening though.
The Red Guy
05-06-13, 17:21
he never complaint about losing o_O what are you guys talking about?
yeah the clipping is pathetic and for a new guy its certainly disturbing. Ppl adopted this "strategy" long ago and now it's part of the OPfight game.
And the invincible ppu... hard to kill is ok but sometimes it's annoying a ppu can stand a 5 men beating ;)
Load_HeavyLoad
05-06-13, 17:21
No I'm betting you also play the most OP thing you can find then come on here to call anybody who need who suggests a balance while offering no helpful feedback as you know your in the wrong =p
Literally all I ever see of you is insulting people I'm surprised you're not banned from the forum for being so unhelpful and just generally abusive.
I've actually made very though out and well construed comments to well thought out posts but I am also very vocal on people who make unnecessary posts in anger. I'm very sensitive to this issue because of how the wrong parts of the Community affected the changes in 2.2, i dont want a repeat of people who spam whines on forums and have make the most posts and input being the voice thats heard in terms of dev changes.
and FYI I have a PE using non-rares as my main combat character and I play tank at OP fights - my favourite characters since I started playing god knows how long ago, what characters do you have? i'm guessing WoC spies but all this whining youre doing recently is because theyre not OP anymore.
I enjoy PvP, i dont have time to play everyday and i certainly dont win more than 60% of my PvP encounters but you dont see me spamming the Brainport to buff my characters setups
Kane Gregory
05-06-13, 18:27
Sorry, but I only read a few of the top posts.
1. Yes, this is true. If you have more ppus as the enemy:
a) your ppus have to support less dd mostly
b) your clan has available capacity for anti-buff opposing ppus and
obstruct them from supporting their team or kill them easier
=> Solution: Anti back to apu
OP-Fight without ppus would be crap!
2. Your fault. Aiming is nice.
3. Yeah the bugs or environment issues are annoying. Trees with a huge hitbox. Goguardians seems to made up of two parts
and only one of them has a hitbox.
4. I know a few characters ingame and I know that they was cheating in the past and I'm confident that they still cheating.
5. subjective. for me it's okay.
@Stealth:
Well, bring a (good) tank or two with aoe and cs and they should win. You can hit stealthed spys with AoE and plasma weapons (CS, First Love, Judge) and tag them with fire dots or damage boost.
btw. tank are you called Engerieelite? The only tank I know with a dynamic clantag :D
I've actually made very though out and well construed comments to well thought out posts but I am also very vocal on people who make unnecessary posts in anger. I'm very sensitive to this issue because of how the wrong parts of the Community affected the changes in 2.2, i dont want a repeat of people who spam whines on forums and have make the most posts and input being the voice thats heard in terms of dev changes.
and FYI I have a PE using non-rares as my main combat character and I play tank at OP fights - my favourite characters since I started playing god knows how long ago, what characters do you have? i'm guessing WoC spies but all this whining youre doing recently is because theyre not OP anymore.
I enjoy PvP, i dont have time to play everyday and i certainly dont win more than 60% of my PvP encounters but you dont see me spamming the Brainport to buff my characters setups
And please point out where i'm doing that? I just make posts about things I feel are a bit much like kamis and the dev, only 1 post has been in anger, or are you suggesting you are perfect and have never in your whole life posted when annoyed?
he never complaint about losing o_O what are you guys talking about?
yeah the clipping is pathetic and for a new guy its certainly disturbing. Ppl adopted this "strategy" long ago and now it's part of the OPfight game.
And the invincible ppu... hard to kill is ok but sometimes it's annoying a ppu can stand a 5 men beating ;)
the problem really comes into play when you have an invincible ppu clipping through people, killing a normal person is hard when they clip like crazy, a ppu well that just takes it up to the realms of invincible. Again this is hard to balance cos in no way am I saying ppus should be easy to kill, but the current level of hard to kill when combined with clipping can make a competent ppus almost impossible for a full OP team to kill unless you literally post a anti buffing ppu at spots around the OP so you will have somebody with a lock on for the anti buff 100% of the time and pistol spys / apus chasing them who can keep up while shooting (a tank wont do cos they just can't keep up with a clipping ppu so wont be hitting enough).
Hopefully the big balance thats coming will sort these issues a bit, I personally don't have a clue how they will do it but I hope they think up something. They seem to have done well so far lets hope they keep it up and surprise us with some genius method =)
i just had the "meh feeling" of this wasn't really fun or engaging either way.
Maybe NC just isnt for you...
EDIT:
the problem really comes into play when you have an invincible ppu clipping through people, killing a normal person is hard when they clip like crazy, a ppu well that just takes it up to the realms of invincible. Again this is hard to balance cos in no way am I saying ppus should be easy to kill, but the current level of hard to kill when combined with clipping can make a competent ppus almost impossible for a full OP team to kill unless you literally post a anti buffing ppu at spots around the OP so you will have somebody with a lock on for the anti buff 100% of the time and pistol spys / apus chasing them who can keep up while shooting (a tank wont do cos they just can't keep up with a clipping ppu so wont be hitting enough).
Dude.. You clearly do not know anything about NC.. Why bother whining?
Tanks (With Dev) is one of the best classes to kills a PPU with.
And honestly, PPU's Arent that hard to kill.. You just need to Work together to do it..
William Antrim
05-06-13, 19:14
Enti are engierelite?
Enti are engierelite?
i think not... engierelite is 14 year old. eNti uses words a 14 year old couldnt use.
Theres been over a decade of threads like this.
Neocron's a bit love/hate. Thats why there are people that stick around for a couple of weeks, and others that are still here years later... You either love it or hate it.
The problem for me is the whole "evo 2.2" debacle where everything got fucked around with, it was not the same game after that, but thankfully thats been realised and steps are starting to be made to fix that.
Thinking back over the years having played neocron, it is one of the few games that has solid memories tied with it, and they are nearly all tied to op fights, because that is where the adrenaline rushes came from, holding gravis uplink on my own for half a hour from the FA faction, not a clan, but a faction. while at the same time phonin clannies to get their ass online and help lol. The shit storm of arguments and accusations after they couldnt take down a self buffed melee tank, rofls. Raiding TH with NDA in the early days, then with cannings in the AYB days... memories will probably stick with me for life because of the kick they gave. However, thats probably only due to the fact we used to win most the time, not all the time, theres a few defeats that will never be forgotten too. but the end game in neocron has never really been aimed at duels, or pepper park/p2 border fighting etc, its always been about the op wars.
Even back then, the majority of clans used to try and stack out ever fighter with a pocket PPU, however believe me, thats not required, get a small team of bloody good players together, and you can still take them down. Most the big name clans over time have been like that, it was never so much about who had more people, think back over time, the major clans always had an elite core of players where the class they were on never really mattered, and also the team balance never mattered too much either. We went to op fights sometimes with only 1 or 2 PPU's, in like a 15 man team, fighting a team thats like half fighter, half ppu. by your logic, we should have been raped, but it doesent work out like that.
At the end of the day, its about the players around you that make the experience. Its a war game, I always enjoyed the fights against opponents i actually fuckin hated with a vengance, than against the ones that are nice. That made victory sweeter, taking down Lore for example, because of the whole history I had with TG, there was alot of venom and vitriol but thats what makes a great opponent. Also, the clans that had good comradeship were always the best to be in, not the ones where you think "this group will help me win", its the groups where you want your friends to experience winning with too, makes you all fight that bit more because theres more pride in it together.
William Antrim
05-06-13, 22:30
Agree with fenyx totally here tbh.
Maybe NC just isnt for you...
EDIT:
Dude.. You clearly do not know anything about NC.. Why bother whining?
Tanks (With Dev) is one of the best classes to kills a PPU with.
And honestly, PPU's Arent that hard to kill.. You just need to Work together to do it..
You seem to have never been at a OP fight, if people are clipping its pretty hard to get any hits on them even if you are all working together, as for a dev tank to do the job... you do realise having a gun out slows you down right? as such chasing a ppu will never work unless they are slow as holy hell as you can't keep up, and thats if we ignore having to try and get a lock on somebody whos clipping non stop.
Bozz-Von Mel
05-06-13, 23:10
I have not been involved in an OP fight in quite some time, but that is generally the way I remember it. Then again I am kind of slow and everything seems to be moving around me like lightning, especially when I have been drinking. Which is all the time.
J@ck on Cr@ck
05-06-13, 23:15
You seem to have never been at a OP fight, if people are clipping its pretty hard to get any hits on them even if you are all working together, as for a dev tank to do the job... you do realise having a gun out slows you down right? as such chasing a ppu will never work unless they are slow as holy hell as you can't keep up, and thats if we ignore having to try and get a lock on somebody whos clipping non stop.
Ever thought about crippling peoples legs so they are easier to kill?
Dev is handy against rezzing PPUs ...
Yes I thought of that a loooong time ago like everybody else sadly like everybody else I also noticed that with a ppus shields and heals its nigh on impossible to do that unless you can focus everybodys fire on their legs which when they are clipping is mighty hard to do. and yes the dev is handy against rezzing ppus killed a few with it =).
Again people seem to be mis-interpreting what I'm saying, I'm not saying ppu is OP I'm saying in a OP fight when they clip around it makes them even harder to take down and its pretty hard to take down a ppu as it is now, especially when you consider they have the UG for if things start to look really bad. Basically clipping needs fixing somehow so people don't just run around things, it was the old fave thing of apus to do now ppus have moved onto doing it mostly but its something everybody can take advantage of and its just a pain really.
You seem to have never been at a OP fight, if people are clipping its pretty hard to get any hits on them even if you are all working together, as for a dev tank to do the job... you do realise having a gun out slows you down right? as such chasing a ppu will never work unless they are slow as holy hell as you can't keep up, and thats if we ignore having to try and get a lock on somebody whos clipping non stop.
Yeah, I've never been at an opfight.. Nor have I been in some of the best opfighting Clans durring NC2..
After the speed-with-weapon-out boost, that tanks got (changed from -20% to -10%), I rarely have a problem keeping up with people on my tank, with weapon out.
I did like it better pre-speed nerf, where I would outrun everyone who wasent a tank, with my Dev out.... :p
I do agree that there is some problems with clipping, and some PPU's can be extremely hard to hit.
And structures that isnt solid, needs to be fucking solid or removed (Yeah Im looking at you, hackterms)!
Doc Holliday
06-06-13, 04:21
So all this talk of clipping is in fact people using the scenery to break lock. Except for the hack terms which you can still track people through if you follow them.
Here is a hint. Spread out. Don't over pursue and make them come and fight you in the open. It helps a lot. And use aoe if the "clipping" is so bad.
Or cry nerf in the brainport. Cause that's what its there for right o_O
There's a reason why the 'cheaters' don't get banned, because they're not.
Doc Holliday
06-06-13, 06:58
just to give another example to this argument. I fought an apu in plaza 2 before the changes we now see.
He continually ran between the right hand corner of the zone as u zone in to p2 up to the first corner on the right as you go up in to rontrade walk.
Back and forth like he was doing shuttle runs. He clearly knew that in those few steps he had the advantage as every time my reticle was closed he was round the corner and i lost the lock. He rained apocs on my head till i figured i had had enough and went in to the middle of plaza 2 up where the gr used to be between the shops.
Point being. Make the enemy fight on terms favourable to you not on terms favourable to him.
second point. Stop with the crying about cheaters. People cheated in the past and have been banned. zoltan and co cleared out a lot of the shit if not all of it. thankfully. just because someone beats you doesnt mean they cheat. it means you need to get better.
if you have someone running for the hackterm or inside of the building containing it or what ever why not coordinate better as a team and position people to pick them up as they run rather than one person saying all shoot this dude and all of the op fight team running around and chasing like one giant noob conga.
Coordination and tactics are excellent weapons in any generals arsenal. keep in mind some people have played this game for a lot longer continually than you and me and will know plenty of tricks to win fights. Adapt and learn. watch what they do and learn to counteract.
dont just squeal hackusations or what ever and complain about this gun or that gun. its way more fun to practice and get better with the dev or what ever than to use a keyboard as your weapon of choice and rage hard on the forum.
Yeah, I've never been at an opfight.. Nor have I been in some of the best opfighting Clans durring NC2..
After the speed-with-weapon-out boost, that tanks got (changed from -20% to -10%), I rarely have a problem keeping up with people on my tank, with weapon out.
I did like it better pre-speed nerf, where I would outrun everyone who wasent a tank, with my Dev out.... :p
I do agree that there is some problems with clipping, and some PPU's can be extremely hard to hit.
And structures that isnt solid, needs to be fucking solid or removed (Yeah Im looking at you, hackterms)!
Indeed that is the main issue (which is what I was saying), it might be tough to keep up with some of them but at least you can try to drug to do so or aim at the legs with a ranged gun till they slow, if they clip around stuff though with shields and a heal its hardly possible to even get them slowed without somebody whos got a good aim on a anti buff, even then a good ppu can survive till they come up again, and its even easier if they have the UG.
As for cheaters people might like to think they are all gone but some remain as I said I've seen some people warping around at fights and oddest one though I'm not sure if this was just a odd bug or a cheat, one of our guys was hacking a OP once and he just dropped dead, no revenge explosion no person in the room (cos we had a guard) he just dropped dead all of a sudden from full hp to nothing. Wont name the people but suffice to say it happens, they are just smart enough now to choose when they cheat instead of having them on all the time
Load_HeavyLoad
06-06-13, 11:58
just out of interest what clan are you in? character names?
skill in op fights evolve around the following:
1. jitter around like stupid,
2. use every bug in the environment possible to break target lock,
3. use stealth to break target lock,
4. know when to go ug,
5. let your ppus know where you are and what you are missing,
6. cheat and not get caught
there's a much higher skill ceiling in this game than that. just because this game is being played with no / very little coordination or finesse by the current clans doesn't mean there isn't a higher potential for skill in neocron pvp, even with it's current flaws.
"ppus really serve no purpose in this game."
stopped reading after that.
damien vryce
07-06-13, 06:58
posted by enti page 1
i don't "understand" the notion, that i have to aim AGAIN when i target something and something else blocks my target by simply standing before it or even only rushing by in a second.
that's called a game named w*w click and u never lose a target this game takes skill and being able to keep a lock on your target moving around is part of it so you don't let them keep a lock on you. I prefer to run in front of you on my ppu blocking your shots from hitting my guys I kn ow it sounds CRAZY team play
that's called a game named w*w click and u never lose a target this game takes skill and being able to keep a lock on your target moving around is part of it so you don't let them keep a lock on you. I prefer to run in front of you on my ppu blocking your shots from hitting my guys I kn ow it sounds CRAZY team play
not a popular opinion but the skill ceiling in w*w pvp (3v3) is way higher than it is in this game.
simple aim and blocking shots aren't groundbreaking strategy.
not a popular opinion but the skill ceiling in w*w pvp (3v3) is way higher than it is in this game.
simple aim and blocking shots aren't groundbreaking strategy.
also wow's balance is MUUUUCH better than in this game. in wow arena pvp you can kill a healer/dd combo with a dd/dd combo. try doing this in this game. O_o
uh yeah it's very skillful to break the aim of someone. granted, aiming is just a game mechanic that is very specific to this game. as i said, it doesn't have to be realistic to be fun. for me it's not fun, so it's a bad game mechanic. it favors certain builds and thus is a balancing factor that limits everyone's options a great deal. play pvp tank? too bad, all your int points are fixed. no variation possible. bad design imho.
J@ck on Cr@ck
07-06-13, 11:14
granted, aiming is just a game mechanic that is very specific to this game. as i said, it doesn't have to be realistic to be fun. for me it's not fun, so it's a bad game mechanic. it favors certain builds and thus is a balancing factor that limits everyone's options a great deal. play pvp tank? too bad, all your int points are fixed. no variation possible. bad design imho.
Well NC is a FPS mmo so you should expect to have to aim like in any FPS. Seems to me you are unable to keep the lock on people or land any hits.
What else would you want to spend your INT points on as a tank?!
I pretty much agree with what Kane Gregory wrote on page 2.
[...]play pvp tank? too bad, all your int points are fixed. no variation possible. bad design imho.
It's not bad design to me, but specialization. You wanna be the best possible PvP tank? It's logical to spend all your points on weapon lore then.
You don't care much about PvP and hunting? Then you can make a GenTank that mods weapons and imps people in P1.
It's your choice and you got all the freedom you want.
It's not bad design to me, but specialization. You wanna be the best possible PvP tank? It's logical to spend all your points on weapon lore then.
You don't care much about PvP and hunting? Then you can make a GenTank that mods weapons and imps people in P1.
It's your choice and you got all the freedom you want.
the illusion of choice is not choice. you need to learn a lot it seems.
blablablawhinewhineblablabla
Why dont you just leave? You clearly do not like the CORE part of the game..
Enough is enough.
Why dont you just leave? You clearly do not like the CORE part of the game..
Enough is enough.
very good post. well thought through and it adds a lot to discussion.
the illusion of choice is not choice. you need to learn a lot it seems.
There is no freedom in a computer game, eNTI.
I guess this thread has run its course.
You have repeated some valid points in your initial post that were discussed countless times over the last nine months on the forums, like the UG, aiming, clipping thru non-solid objects, balancing PPUs & debuffing & classes, and so on and so on.
But your last posts have not been constructive anymore and now this thread really starts to descend into strange territories.
There is no freedom in a computer game, eNTI.
I guess this thread has run its course.
You have repeated some valid points in your initial post that were discussed countless times over the last six months on the forums, like the UG, aiming, clipping thru non-solid objects, balancing PPUs & debuffing & classes, and so on and so on.
But your last posts have not been constructive anymore and now this thread really starts to descend into strange territories.
i guess you are right.
[RANT]
1. if you want to win, bring more ppus.
...
3. if you want to win, bring more ppus.
...
5. if you want to win, bring more ppus.
KK has been warned by the community that there will be more PPUs in Opfight if they nerf the PPU too hard.
What you see now is just the result of ignoring.
A lot of people left because they aimed to help and tried a lot.
I hope some of them will come back some day.
We had not allways the same site and the same opinions but I miss those people a lot.
Too affective?
William Antrim
07-06-13, 13:49
Less qq and learn to play enti. If you don't like a feature of the game highlight it in its own thread and then come up with a concrete solution to that problem and make it relevant to the game and doable without any negative consequences.
Whining on this forum will only bring you ridicule or a cold shoulder from us, your peers. You clearly lack the understanding as your threads have been dissected surgically by finer minds than my own and yet you still continue to post non-sensical stuff like you have done. I wish you could see your own posts from a neutral stance once in a while because you arent doing much for credibility here bro.
In the meantime I will see you on the battlefield. Try not to bleed on my uniform please.
J@ck on Cr@ck
07-06-13, 13:51
the illusion of choice is not choice. you need to learn a lot it seems.
How about we make a new class called eNTi with INT: 100 STR: 100 CON: 100 DEX: 100 and PSI: 100
Then you can do everything you want with just one character! But I guess even then you wouldnt be happy.
Like Ivan correctly pointed out, its specialization.
Im guessing you want to skill HCK or maybe IMP. If that is the case you clearly picked the wrong class. Tanks are dumb as a fucking rock and are not meant to hack or poke. However you have the freedom to skill it anyway which enables you to hack WBs or poke low TL implants.
Load_HeavyLoad
07-06-13, 13:51
enti I would have thought your join date would be you would remember the old NC1 times which is what I see the majority of the community wants to move towards but clearly cartoon gaming has blurred your memories. comparing a ppu and a priest/druid/shaman w/ever the healers are in WoW is comparing apples and oranges with the only thing they have in common being healing. I have knives at home, does that automatically make me a Samurai warrior?
You are obviously trying to move the game towards a WoW-esque play style which is so so wrong for a) this game b) any sort of cyberpunk feel c) this game d) this game
no wonder people are leaving again. well, see you in game.
no wonder people are leaving again. well, see you in game.
People are always leaving, as well as joining. Such is life.
Load_HeavyLoad
07-06-13, 14:59
MMOs have a constant churn of players, just the nature of MMOs
William Antrim
07-06-13, 17:38
See ya then enti. :)
enti has officially taken over as the biggest baby-back bitch in NC.
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