Bring back Shelter! (Really - hear me out)

[William Antrim]

Bring back Shelter please.

Give it to PE's only. No spy can have this. Make the Psi req 28+ (PE can use it but late on in his career).

Make it viable ONLY for PE (no higher version, blessed/holy for the ppu etc).

Give him a decent amount of energy resist BUT NO OTHER RESIST (not as good as blessed absorber but almost).

Make it storebought and droppable just like all his other spells.


Now the question is why?

I thought about this today at work and the thought occurred to me that it is a brilliant idea to give the PE his own spell that makes him different from a spy. Spies have nannites (if they want them but thats for another thread) and the PE has his buffs. However he needs new/different/better buffs to make his life more livable.

Not allowing any other versions of this spell counteracts PPUs from having any overpoweredness down the line.

Not allowing ANY OTHER RESIST means that he still has to use his other 2 buffs (protector deflector) but the PVP PE gets his very own spell that doesnt alter the game balance in the rest of the game and is a PVP only spell really. Although I guess you could use it in PVE...

It would/should give the PE access to energy resist akin to a tank (almost) without the horrendous strength requirement and the speed (not having a cannon to worry about) to keep up with Tanks and fight them. It would also give HC Pes some seriously huge survivability to counteract their poor offence (compared to their Tank counterparts). Melee PE's (You guys might have heard of them - they became extinct after NC1....) would also benefit and Low tech PE's could become absolute bosses again with their uber defence due to being able to use strength chips for more defence.

On the whole the PE gets a serious amount of LOVE.

Noone else gets any benefit to OP them and we get the old shelter animation which you have to admit was probably the coolest fucking animation in all of NC1.

Now, please discuss.


Torg - p.s In no way does this suggestion make the game easier.... there I saved you a post. :)

[Ghostface_Speak]

This sounds like a good idea,would love to test it and see where it leads

[RogerRamjet]

I'd be happy for psi to be returned to it's previous state for both PEs and spies tbh, but I like the sound of this.

[J@ck on Cr@ck]

I'd be happy for psi to be returned to it's previous state for both PEs and spies tbh, but I like the sound of this.

I would like that too.

[Doc Holliday]

I love the idea. However you dropped the ball a little.

Your opening post never explained to the newer members of the community what shelter did and how it differs from absorber of todays neocron. That alienates a big chunk of the community.

Forgive my bad memory but back in the day deflector covered you for force and what else? Shelter was energy and ?? ( i truly cannot remember o_O) im gonna go out on a limb and say it was fire. im fairly sure it was that. It was poison we didnt have a special resist for if memory is right.

So would this idea remove the absorber/protector and replace it or be in addition. If so would it stack with the other shields a pe gets and make it 4 shields or are you doing away with the 3 and bringing it down to two? this also doesnt come across well atm ?

The idea of 2 shields for a pe i love. full support of it. An extra belt slot for stams etc is very good because a pe has to carry a lot of stuff with him (like a ppu with all that lovely defensive ability) and anything that helps alleviate this is good in my eyes so long as he doesnt become too overpowered (a little bit op is fine).

I think the pe is his own seperate balancing project though. This would really need to be looked at on sparta once a base line can be established for what the two shields should do and how much.

[William Antrim]

Shelter resisted energy xray and fire once. Regardless it would be pure energy now and be in addition to the current shields. Nothing needs to change on that score. We never had a poison shield and deflector was force resist.


It's all in the first post.

[Doc Holliday]

right 4 shields. fuck that then.


Its over complicating. sorry. dislike the idea. no its not all in the original post. If it was i wouldn't have been confused. i thought deflector resisted something else but now i remember yeah it was just force resist. back when pierce didn't exist.

[William Antrim]

No it is not 4 shields.

Shelter would be used in place of the blue shield (for example) to give the pe either a huge dose of energy resist OR the current resist that is absorber.

Reread the part about his other 2 shields.... he would use this for the edge in pvp versus energy weapons. He still has the previous 2 shields and the protection from them.

With this he has the choice of a bit of xray or LOTS of energy resist (primary damage type) which separates his defence away from the spy and pushes him up in line with the Tank.

Any clearer?

[eNTi]

this so called "fix" seems overly complicated for something that can be fixed via tweaking a few values in the database. of course the actual values are the crux and throwing new variables at them might not be the best idea. pe is quite a complicated class already imho.

if any items should be tweaked, it's gloves. most pe's will want to use a psi glove, but then they can't get the benefit of the trading gloves, which they would really need. currently only the pe has a problem with this, especially because he got such low base stats i'd like to use a trade glove for the +2dex, but this would gimp me in terms of survivability because i can't use psi.

[nabbl]

Well I would say:

Screw the three shields anyway and bring back shelter/deflector!!! :)

[Ascension]

Well I would say:

Screw the three shields anyway and bring back shelter/deflector!!! :)

this, (and APU's antibuff.)

[Doc Holliday]

Shelter and Def for the PE. easy. Whole different set of shields for him so it wont mess up monks. win.

[Dropout]

this so called "fix" seems overly complicated for something that can be fixed via tweaking a few values in the database. of course the actual values are the crux and throwing new variables at them might not be the best idea. pe is quite a complicated class already imho.
Holy hell.. I actually agree with eNTi on a subject :O
This does seems more complicated that it has to be. They just need to make the lower TL PPU modules worthwhile. Adjust the TL of them, so spies wont be able to use them, and boost the hell out of them. The 2-3% extra resists they currently give is just pathetic.

[William Antrim]

Holy hell.. I actually agree with eNTi on a subject :O
This does seems more complicated that it has to be. They just need to make the lower TL PPU modules worthwhile. Adjust the TL of them, so spies wont be able to use them, and boost the hell out of them. The 2-3% extra resists they currently give is just pathetic.


Problem with this is I already thought of that.


If you increase the protection given from lower shields you buff spies AND pes.

If you lower the reqs on blessed heals and buffs you give PPU monks a much higher gap between Blessed and Holy level buffs. This in effect stints their growth and PPUs are already one of the more difficult classes to level. Removing their mid range ability in order to balance the PE is one of the hardest problems of the game currently. Anything you do to the PE will automatically affect the other classes.

However creating a brand new set of buffs (Shelter and Deflector and Protector combo) for the PE in the way suggested by myself would alleviate all of the above problems.

PPUs, as described, are not affected as they could use this spell for a brief period of time before levelling through and out of it.

Spies, as described, cannot reach the TL requirement of the "new" spell.

Tanks and APUs: N/A

Therefore no other class will benefit from the change.

It is not overly complicated. It is removing the PE from the maelstrom that is NC class balance, looking at his core strengths and weaknesses and giving him an item that is soley his but still sits within the game world and makes something unique to him to give him the edge on the battlefield that he needs whilst retaining his position within the trappings of class balance.

If the PE is to be anything other than a half finished version of the other classes he needs his own items just for his own use.

I have not seen another idea which solves this problem quite so succinctly. However that is my opinion and prone to bias of course.

[Kame]

Just like they will remove te decimals on items and bring it bak to pre-2.2, I would rather have it go back to the simpler S/D we had before.

Even the balance of the S/D with shelter drugging spys.

[RogerRamjet]

I'd be happy with that too Kame. Coincide that with the forth coming balancing and you have what should have been done years ago.

[J@ck on Cr@ck]

If you increase the protection given from lower shields you buff spies AND pes.


Since the resist nanites are kinda broken, I dont see why the spy cant or shouldnt have his shelter back. Either fix nanites or give spies access to shelter aswell. Personally Id like to have the choice between psi resists and nanite resists, because nanites require high TC and additionally IMP.

[Netphreak]

Since the resist nanites are kinda broken, I dont see why the spy cant or shouldnt have his shelter back. Either fix nanites or give spies access to shelter aswell. Personally Id like to have the choice between psi resists and nanite resists, because nanites require high TC and additionally IMP.

Spy never technically 'had' shelter. They could use a single drug that gave +5 PSI to use it as long as they specced PSU in order to have enough PSI pool to cast it.
However with the current bonuses of drugs it would now require 2 PSI drugs to get the +5PSI needed to hit 25 for shelter.

Anyhow, spies are still currently in a much better position with resists from nanites compared to the protection PE's currently get from PSI shields.

I'd very much be in favour or PE's having Blessed Def, Shelther and maybe lvl1 resist boosters available to them again.
If that is far to much work however then just make the current shields that a PE can use actually worth while and competitive.

[J@ck on Cr@ck]

Spy never technically 'had' shelter.

Anyhow, spies are still currently in a much better position with resists from nanites compared to the protection PE's currently get from PSI shields.


Fair enough.

While it may be true that spies theoretically have better resists from nanites than PEs have from their psi shields, practically this it not true.
Have you seen any spy use resist nanites in PVP? Because I have not! The reason for this is simple, it just takes too much time to inject 10x. This is why nobody bothers to use them.

You ask for viable and competitive shields (for PE) and so do I (for SPY).

[gstyle40]

Fair enough.

Have you seen any spy use resist nanites in PVP?



yep, his name is mace. but he hardly pvp's in city and its more practicle at ops to use ppu sheilds

[Doc Holliday]

I have not seen another idea which solves this problem quite so succinctly. However that is my opinion and prone to bias of course.

Agreed on that. Bias all the way baby. Its still a good idea. I personally feel the private eye must be considered seperately to the other classes so that it doesnt ruin another when trying to fix him. (thinking how he shares common attributes with the others eg rifles/pistols with the spy etc psi with the ppu and str with the tank in case of any headscratchers reading this thread. Fink too much make brain 'urt!

Now. As for the nanite discussion. GTFO this thread and make another one? :) seriously its a whole other line of thought/logic/reasoning and would be a great way to differentiate the classes.

I think of the difference between spies and pes as the difference between humans and elves. The elf is more refined and intelligent where as the human is rougher and tougher and much more straight forward and blunt (characteristically speaking) and should be reflected in style of play. I hate to use an elf analogy but its the only one i could think of straight away. The commoner and the aristocrat from medieaval times would be another great analogy. the spy doesnt want his clothes getting torn and dirty while killing people where as the pe mixes it up on the front line. the officer and the grunt is another.

So the spy injects himself full of odd chemicals and the pe puts his blind (some could argue less educated) faith in magics (psi).

Me. Im a pe at heart. absolutely.

[William Antrim]

Thank you. Please discuss nannites elsewhere.

[J@ck on Cr@ck]

Im not discussing nanites, there is a thread for that already, I simply stated that they are broken and why I (as a Spy) would like to have access to shelter aswell.