Smugglers and neocron as it is today

[Doc Holliday]

Ok im gonna use the apartment smugglers as my prime example when i suggest this idea but as i sit and think about it this concept should totally apply to ALL of the vendors/faction traders etc.

I realise that with the advent of nc2 smugglers were introduced to neocron to make things not so easily accessible and to push people out in to the open world by Reakktor and to get people mingling when it was doy vs nc.

I realise some people might turn around and say oh well thats just stupid when i put forward this idea but believe me its not if you stop.

What about abandoning the smugglers completely. As it is now you have to make the trip once to a smuggler and buy a weapon and then most people blueprint it and never think of it again. Vehicles are bought and then the key activated and unless you need to buy a new one thats it. Thats your whole interaction with the smuggler. He is a place holder in a zone that is visited once and most often he doesnt even appear like he even belongs there. (via rosso 3 anyone?)

So. Instead of the items that the smuggler sells being vended that way why not split them in to relevance and spread them among the faction FSMs.

Tie people to their factions more. Make the immersion more complete for the roleplay aspect of the game. Take for example the apartment smugglers for pepper park. (credit to ivan eres at this point for his discussion on the AB apartments thing which gave me this idea)

Tsunami OWNS pepper park 1. Black Dragon Owns pepper park 2 and Crahn owns pepper park 3 (kinda). Why dont the faction fsms sell the keys for apps in these zones? Dre sells apartments for the via rosso/plaza locales. It would let the players buy and sell stuff to each other. Makes more player trade and encourages a stronger sense of faction loyalty. (Keep up your loyalty and er.... DONT SHOOT GREENS :O)

Next gets a monopoly on vehicles naturally. Tangent i think should sell the weapons systems its known for (TPC etc).

I realise this list is very near unfinished but this is in fact intentional. I have a few other ideas about where stuff should go such as other weapons being sold by CA. (versions of the plasma rifles etc because the copbots use rifles is one idea) All of these are up for debate.

I admit to struggling somewhat with what protopharm gets out of all this and considered perhaps an improved nanite tool of some kind or maybe a beefed up survival kit (higher heals per second or something) or even resist drugs without retarded maluses (who REALLY honestly uses dragon drugs anyway?).

Biotechs good as it has all the imps.

TG should totally have the monopoly on fusion weaponry and the godswish armour so thats a no brainer.

TS has the low tech weaponry perhaps. Flamers, shotguns and low tech rifles?

Dre is good as they have the apartments as mentioned.

Next and TT as above.

I think Crahns good tbh. Add pp3 apartments to the list and be done.

I believe that covers all factions. I would still have one smuggler or two but put them out in the outzone. OZ 1 is perfect. OZ mall even more so with vendors out there that can be used to provide for the Runners who make a home out there. (probably need to move the ncpd run from there if its to be a long term home) Alternatively there is good old outzone station (which should be a non safe zone too ;)) like there used to be. Here is where the smugglers fit perfectly. (thanks to William Antrim for this idea. You know where i took it from bro :P)


So. Constructive feedback on this please.

[eNTi]

while agree that the faction system direly needs a revamp i don't think this is the way to go. in my opinion there should be even more smugglers placed further out in different zones. as it stands now, if you are unlucky, you don't have access to a certain fsm when you actually would like to upgrade your gear. this all only applies to newbies and it is most likely put there to encourage exploration the world... even if just for a bit. it's not really relevant for end game. some items should probably switched around and ffs give tsunami fsm something worthwhile to sell, but the faction revamp should be much more complex, but limiting availability of core items too new players isn't a part of that imho.

[SilentEye]

I like the idea, I'll leave the brainstorming in regard to which FSM gets what to others, but I like the idea!

[Chuck Norris]

TBH this game is all about end game and pvp in most peoples eyes, removing them imho is best, it helps out noobs leveling to the end game where they have to farm rares or woc missions to get proper weaponry.

also weapon shouldnt be sold from the vendor as bad; should at least be good or better so they are useable.

[Doc Holliday]

while agree that the faction system direly needs a revamp i don't think this is the way to go. in my opinion there should be even more smugglers placed further out in different zones. as it stands now, if you are unlucky, you don't have access to a certain fsm when you actually would like to upgrade your gear. this all only applies to newbies and it is most likely put there to encourage exploration the world... even if just for a bit. it's not really relevant for end game. some items should probably switched around and ffs give tsunami fsm something worthwhile to sell, but the faction revamp should be much more complex, but limiting availability of core items too new players isn't a part of that imho.

enter key. use it.

This gives tsunami something worthwhile. It doesn't have to be the most lowest level basic rifle. No where in the above post did i say make the tl3 pump gun bd fsm only. low level stuff will be sold by vendors as it is now. nothing changes. so thats that.

As for the "exploration experience" well i know i would much rather enjoy going to a new place because i was on a mission to go and see someone rather than having to tab out to techhaven.org to find the location of a smuggler and then going there.

The smuggler system was implemented to encourage people to go out to find stuff when it was all nc vs doy, red vs blue. the game isnt like that any more. it changed for the better.

the rest of your post i didnt comprehend so well but i think those are the key points.

@chuck. Whats the point of that when people always say get player built stuff as its much much better other than purely from the rp aspect. Making them good or better isnt gonna change that. if you make em outstanding then you will kill the player constructed weapons business.

[eNTi]

i never learned to set proper paragraphs.

you didn't understand me at all. i wasn't talking about tl3 stuff either. the tl80 guns are still considered newbie weapons in my eyes. especially if someone hasn't lying them around as a bp already. i'm with you on the apartment idea though. do people actually buy oz appas?

[Chuck Norris]

@chuck. Whats the point of that when people always say get player built stuff as its much much better other than purely from the rp aspect. Making them good or better isnt gonna change that. if you make em outstanding then you will kill the player constructed weapons business.

there really isnt much a market for it, thats why im so amendment about making them better on the vendors and easier to get. see'ing people in trade asking for help to RES and then CST/Acquiring WP's 8,9,10 (Non-vendor parts) their newbie weapon really slows the game down for someone; especially if they can not find anyone for hours/on their playtime

I also think you should be able to build everything to artifact like back in the day i dont see the point of the outstanding capon non-rares.

Unless of course non-rares would end up being better dps then rare at artifact level...

like some GM spawned Ionics for example..

[Doc Holliday]

. i'm with you on the apartment idea though. do people actually buy oz appas?

right now i guess not but with the dev update for this month detailing some big changes i think it will affect this also. I can see people going and living there for sure.

[Trivaldi]

The distribution of items is something which is not as great as it could be. There are several routes we could go down to improve the spread of items as well as matching items to better suit the locations from which they're available. This is something which is certainly on my list of things I'd like to improve.

I'm very interested to see the input from the community on this as the discussion evolves.

Regarding Tsunami, please be aware that there are currently no apartment lifts in Pepper Park Sector 1.

[Doc Holliday]

Regarding Tsunami, please be aware that there are currently no apartment lifts in Pepper Park Sector 1.


For sake of discussion I make a motion to ignore this fact (always wanted to say that) and continue on with the ideas at hand which is that of Crahn and Black Dragon having the option of selling Apartments in their respective zones.

I did consider the idea that Black Dragon should be solely responsible for the apartments as this is one of their core businesses (if im correct in my memory of the back story/lore) but i wondered if that wouldn't be overloading the Black Dragon FSM a little too much.

Triv on a side note. How difficult would it be to add an Apartment lift in to the game world at a suitable location in pepper park? Is that something you can comment on? Even if it was a doorway like the BD epic Apartment complex in out zone that led to one of those hallways it would be better than nothing and give the tsunami guys a sense of home.

[William Antrim]

Family loyalty aside I am all up for this. More stuff within factions is a great idea in my mind. It encourages interaction and don't forget its a 4 slot server. Noobs can make a char and get fsm access doing missions easily enough if there is no trading.

Some stuff needs to be hacknet-able ideally. Give the hackers more trade basically and raise the requirement to access hacknet to 50. Then they can go get the item and trade it.

Also I want to see the rare chips go back into hacknet. Weaponry should be rares but drones and chips need to go back in hn. The more in there the better.

[Trivaldi]

For sake of discussion I make a motion to ignore this fact (always wanted to say that) and continue on with the ideas at hand which is that of Crahn and Black Dragon having the option of selling Apartments in their respective zones.

I did consider the idea that Black Dragon should be solely responsible for the apartments as this is one of their core businesses (if im correct in my memory of the back story/lore) but i wondered if that wouldn't be overloading the Black Dragon FSM a little too much.
Traditionally Black Dragon were the "estate agents" of Pepper Park, they did their sales out of the little shops in the PP3 GR room and controlled much of the living space in the Pepper Park District. Crahn were basically left to find holes in the Outzone to live in where possible. This lead to Tsunami generally starting out in housing above the Pussy Club due to the previous Tsunami holding of this building (now Red Pepper Entertainment, a BD/TS collaboration, a relic of pre-F6 patch DoY).



Triv on a side note. How difficult would it be to add an Apartment lift in to the game world at a suitable location in pepper park? Is that something you can comment on? Even if it was a doorway like the BD epic Apartment complex in out zone that led to one of those hallways it would be better than nothing and give the tsunami guys a sense of home.
Doing it properly is something we would like to do but there are certain complexities involved which must be tackled before that happens. A bodge job like the Apartment Complex is possible but not desirable.

[Doc Holliday]

Aaah. thats what was in the gr room in pp3. I couldnt remember that much. never paid enough attention i guess.

Ok what about giving black dragon back these shops then or something similar. Also the smugglers in pepper park should be switched out for black dragon dealers. Then you can close down dragon drugs and make pepper park seedier at the same time.

Pepper pub should be reopened at the same time or im gonna make my own version (too bad the black dragon clan apartments are small and cramped. im gonna try though) and then get a rival dj installed to have battles vs blackmaze. ;)

Im gona have to have a cruise around Pepper 1 and see where the apartment used to be. i could have sworn there was one there some place. pre doy of course.

As for the chips. Yes put them in hacknet. It cleans up the L parts pool for sure in terms of rares. Mc5 chips are easier to obtain these days in comparison with the SF,SWAT etc given the rare pool being the way it is. Putting them back in hacknet would solve this issue. i always liked it that it was done this way.

[Trivaldi]

Im gona have to have a cruise around Pepper 1 and see where the apartment used to be. i could have sworn there was one there some place. pre doy of course.
I am 99% certain you will not find one. ;)

If you have ideas or suggestions for the game world in general, outside of the scope of item distribution feel free to create corresponding Brainport threads. :)

[Deus Ex Machina]

Considering Item distribution, for me, there is the question whether something should be accessible easy or difficult. As we now have only a 4 Slot server, more or less everything that is with an FSM is "difficult" to access, but easy enough. Sometimes it seems FSM access to any faction (via players) is easier than getting the items of some smugglers. The same is true for hacknet items, they are even easier to access, as no sympathy is required and any starting char of a faction with hacking can get it. But then you need FSM access for them anyway again.

So for difficult to access items I could think of the following (ideas might be partly contradicting, as its only a brainscan):

* Items accessible via dialogue (maybe then opening a tradewindow, or like hacknet), that checks for faction sympathy, maybe a certain level, Master in the faction, if the runner is in a clan, if the runner is in a clan with 5 or more members, the runner having accomplished one or more other runs or anything else.
* Prices of FSM items adjustable by Faction Representative, with additional/a percentage of the money being once per month distributed to every active faction member (I think there is something built in to only count active faction members in the faction vote system, to not count inactive ones, so for the "active" part there might already be a system in place). Might need a minimum price, or some drawback if prices are too low.
* Items only accessible if you have done one or more (longer) runs, but not dependent on Faction.

For easier to access items:
* The current system, with the occasional useful trader in not that easy to access or dangerous areas (might also be some interesting locations in the wastelands where there is danger but no faction restriction / long journey to). For example main sewer comes to mind for street model rifles (example). Outzone is also around. And of course different wasteland areas. Garbage Dump for example, not THAT dangerous, but the journes is also not that easy.
* Maybe a bit more items accessible before the need for a smuggler/something similar for beginners
* Better grouping of categories. So at the moment Fusion weapons are only avaiable at the canyon. But the FSM has Rayguns. But not all of them. So it would be nice if for example you want a Fusion weapon, you get directed to the Twilight Guardian. They have a smuggler with mid category Fusion weapons (and only carrying lower ones), and in the FSM they have higher ones. You want Gatlings, you get directed to the City Merc Bunker. You want useless (for now) Freezer weapons, you go to Tech Haven (only has cannons at the moment). You want Laser weapons, Tangent has them for you. And maybe Tangent has Snipers too (not really a type). But inside Tangent it would be less a smuggler but a sales person of Tangent selling them (fits better, don't think all "smugglers" have to look like smugglers).
* Traders that sell to all but enemies of the faction.

So for the moment thats all that comes to mind, the other thing I have in mind is better off in another thread ;)


A bodge job like the Apartment Complex is possible but not desirable.I agree, the Appartment complex is not really nice. Don't want to go into more ranting about it, but getting rid of it (but not the appartments) would be very nice. Anything resembling it should not be done.

[Netphreak]

I just want to chip in and say I very much agree with level 4 implants becoming hacknet items again.
As for the rest of the FSM ideas, it seems that it could work rather well, and hopefully will give clans more things to think about when picking a faction.

[Deus Ex Machina]

Regarding implants and distribution: It would be nice if for example level 2 Implants could drop from mobs, that you can kill when you need the appropiate implant. Drop chance shouldn't be too high, but it would make a nice loot.

[William Antrim]

Regarding implants and distribution: It would be nice if for example level 2 Implants could drop from mobs, that you can kill when you need the appropiate implant. Drop chance shouldn't be too high, but it would make a nice loot.


Yeah agreed. Launcher Cyclops would be a good level for the imps. Low drop rate though.

Or add some 60/60 mobs.

[Drachenpaladin]

I'd like to throw in the idea of re-populating the OZ Station sector with more traders. The old shops are still there and since most smugglers are nomad-like anyway i think it would be fitting for them to offer their goods at the entrance area like flying merchants at the city gates.

Maybe not the Pepper Park apartment smuggler but the weapon seller from Via3 and OZ2 for example. A sho or two for consumables would be good either. Just saying.