View Full Version : Law Enforcer should only work in designated areas
I know there are many threads on this already. In an attempt to help the developers keep sight on all the different ideas I'm throwing mine out there in a separate thread.
There have been many people shouting to remove the LE. I don't think this should or will happen because there are simply too many people against it.
Wouldn't it work for everyone if the LE only worked in certain designated areas?
Law Enforced areas:
Neocron City
Neocron Subway
Military Base and it's surrounding zone
Tech Haven and it's surrounding zone
Non Law Enforced areas:
All wasteland zones
MC5
All zones with an OP (covered by Wastelands anyway)
Up for discussion:
Neocron OZ
el Farid
Regent's
Appreciate if we can stick to only this suggestion, post your thoughts, criticism on the idea or what ever but if you have a different idea, create your own brainport topic to keep the discussions clear!
Technical bit:
Judging by the description of the implant "LAW ENFORCED +1" this is a simple 0 or 1 thing. That would mean that zones could have a permanent buff in them to force LAW ENFORCED to 0.
I don't think the coding would be too extreme.
[F6]Knight
05-04-13, 10:36
I already supported this idea in the other topic and will do so here again but with my own view on where the LE should and shouldn't work.
Based on your original list I have the following remarks / suggestions:
- Don't enforce the LE on the entire city. (OZ not included obviously)
I wouldn't mind removing the P2 zonewhoring PvP and make entire Plaza LE'd again, as well as VR. But leave at least PP unLE'd.
- I don't see much point in TH being LE'd in it's current state.
TH is abandoned 99.9% of the time and for now is only seen as "another GR". Not much point in making it LE'd unless the devs do something to make TH more attractive again for runners.
- MB is a tricky one. On one hand it's a military base and PvP fits that picture very well, but it's also THE prime leveling spot for low level runners. I wouldn't mind MB becoming unLE'd if the devs provide some new prime leveling spots in the city where the LE doesn't get disabled.
- Making all wasteland zones unLE'd could solve a lot of abuse problems as it covers every OP as well as MC5 and the warbot / firemob hunting zones where the LE is sometimes abused to ninjahack warbots or park rhino's over firemob corpses.
It also solves LE'd vehicle and runner abuse during OP fights.
It does create one possibly major issue though. It makes vehicles attackable / destroyable pretty much everywhere where they can be spawned. This takes away LE'd vehicle farming.
I personally don't have a problem with this but I think some people might.
- As for El Farid and Regants, I spend a lot of time in the past at both as an LE'd runner and often saw unLE's PvP geared runnersheading into Regants with the sole purpose of ganking PvE geared unLE'd runners who were still trying to level.
I would only not mind these zones becoming unLE'd IF the penalties for killing someone in hunting / leveling zones is GREATLY increased. (no matter if they belong to a friendly, neutral or hostile faction). Major SL loss from each kill and maybe even a moderate faction sympathy loss for your own or even all factions. Ganking in leveling areas should make you an outlaw pretty quickly. But that is an entirely different discussion and has already been covered in other brainport topics in the past.
demonssword
05-04-13, 11:31
Another problem comes from people doing things like their epic faction quests. What in a lot of cases takes you to places like industrial A / Outzone / Crest Village / Point Red with a stat rank of 10-20 in some cases. Others have to make their way to TH or MB or even El-Farid by the same types of levels, and if you have your LE disabled when outside you could easily be griefed. Also with losing your belt as well at that low level then you likely will not have good enough soul light to stop people hacking it, even though what they get will be something like a TL 20-30 weapon or piece of armour for doing so.
I'm still more of a fan of the idea of only a few zones being changed. MC5 / DOY Tunnels / DOY Quest zones (SWAT / IAR quest) / Juggernaut Facility / Ceres Labs. Otherwise there is to much of a lack of "safe" levelling zones.
Things like El-Farid, Regants, J-01 (I think that is MB Bunker), Aggy Sewer in P1... are needed to get people up to a good enough level to go out and PVP. But with such high scaling between a common going up to a rare weapon, I don't see without sponsorship from someone that a new player would be able to get up to the point where they can pvp successfully.
This paired with current supposed problems like PEs only being viable if WoC and the XP being so slow for them to grind it out would mean that outside of the current batch of PEs who are WoC you probably wouldn't get any more unless they are being dragged around with a PPU and a few combat chars and going to high XP areas to leech a lot of it.
OK this is how I see things with the LE. The vast majority of people who use the LE use it correctly, they are the ones leveling who don't want to be bothered by bored UN-LE'd gankers. There are times where the LE is used for purposes that it was not intended for also, but in my experience these times are few and far between, certainly not enough for there to be a huge sweeping change.
Proper Dungeon and vehicle mechanics would solve 90% of the problems.
I do agree however, that the LE may need some tweaking and a good, fair system should be worked out without alienating the people who use it properly.
Don't Agree some levelling zones contain ops and don't agree with the rest because your making it more difficult for and LE'd players to farm areas QQ to those who will cry because they cant kill an LE player just because they decided to do something at the same time as others, tough luck do something else besides it will lead to more whines and over complicating things
IMO:
Law Enforced areas:
Neocron City
Neocron Subway
Military Base [and its surrounding zone - Military should protect the area like the NPCD]
Tech Haven and its surrounding zone
Regent's in the Canyons
el Farid (Let them level)
Non Law Enforced areas:
All wasteland zones
MC5
All zones with an OP (covered by Wastelands anyway)
Neocron OZ/IND
Regent's Legacy - It is a very high level levelling zone
Law Enforced areas:
Neocron City
Neocron Subway
Military Base and it's surrounding zone
Tech Haven and it's surrounding zone
Non Law Enforced areas:
All wasteland zones
MC5
All zones with an OP (covered by Wastelands anyway)
Up for discussion:
Neocron OZ
el Farid
Regent's
I could see a limit on the zones which are law enforced but the problem with this proposed list is that it makes the LE chip essentially useless after the Bunker. That might be supported by a good amount of players but nothing I've heard from the developers has led me to believe they will make a change this extreme.
If we were to limit the LE by zone then I'd suggest a smaller change. Remove the LE protection from the "Dungeons". El Farid, Regent's, Mc5, Ceres Labs, CRP, Chaos Caves, Point Red Underground, Gaia Mine, etc...
This solves the primary objection of the LE. Players who are farming valuable and limited resources and are untouchable. This now puts them at the same risk as any of us if they want to have access to WoC discs, Mc5 implants, or access to the valuable leveling spots. LE players still have protection outside of those zones and they can still choose to put themselves at risk if they want to have access to these places, but it doesn't give them immunity.
Eternal Pink
05-04-13, 18:52
I know there are many threads on this already. In an attempt to help the developers keep sight on all the different ideas I'm throwing mine out there in a separate thread.
There have been many people shouting to remove the LE. I don't think this should or will happen because there are simply too many people against it.
Wouldn't it work for everyone if the LE only worked in certain designated areas?
Law Enforced areas:
Neocron City
Neocron Subway
Military Base and it's surrounding zone
Tech Haven and it's surrounding zone
Non Law Enforced areas:
All wasteland zones
MC5
All zones with an OP (covered by Wastelands anyway)
Up for discussion:
Neocron OZ
el Farid
Regent's
Appreciate if we can stick to only this suggestion, post your thoughts, criticism on the idea or what ever but if you have a different idea, create your own brainport topic to keep the discussions clear!
Technical bit:
Judging by the description of the implant "LAW ENFORCED +1" this is a simple 0 or 1 thing. That would mean that zones could have a permanent buff in them to force LAW ENFORCED to 0.
I don't think the coding would be too extreme.
MC5 and OP's I can agree with (although if you include OP's the tl 150 res mission cash cow everybody appears to be using will go), the rest all your doing is making it harder for people to level and thus increasing the LE'd people.
How many people here *HONESTLY* levelled without the LE? Since from my time in regants/CRP that number is very very very small.
So other than create lots of easy kills for existing players and slow down levelling chars getting to cap and popping I don't see any advantage to making so much of the map LE-unfriendly
As an example, the very first week I came back I saw one person complain on help about the number of LE's the reply they got was "stfu you popped yours what a week ago?" from another unLE'd player
MC5 and OP's I can agree with, the rest all your doing is making it harder for people to level and thus increasing the LE'd people.
How many people here *HONESTLY* levelled without the LE? Since from my time in regants/CRP that number is very very very small.
So other than create lots of easy kills for existing players and slow down levelling chars getting to cap and popping I don't see any advantage to making so much of the map LE-unfriendly
I agree 100% with this.
Let people level in Peace = more capped players that can give a challenge.
OP zones, MC5 and maybe a couple of other zones would be nice to have as LE-free zones.
But the major leveling zones, should be safe, so they wont be infested with griefers ganking everyone who is trying to level up..
Eternal Pink
05-04-13, 19:29
Something I thought of, perhaps make it that you unable to get to woc xp (XP gain turns off once you cap until LE removal) or use woc items while LE'd since even though I have my LE in all my chars as none are capped even i'm a bit wtf when I see a LE'd dude in woc PA
I agree 100% with this.
Let people level in Peace = more capped players that can give a challenge.
OP zones, MC5 and maybe a couple of other zones would be nice to have as LE-free zones.
But the major leveling zones, should be safe, so they wont be infested with griefers ganking everyone who is trying to level up..
its not about more people, you have think objectiv about that. you have to design the le for the future game play.
the idea that the le is only working in specific areas is very good solution.
the core of the game is the rough world.
maybe you could even project it with roleplay...
who uses the law enforcement system and who not?
of course neocron uses it, but the canyon? definitely not.
who invented it? i guess fallen angels, so th could be a law enforced zone?
this way we dont need safe zones, just law enforced zones.
maybe further content could be, that the law enforcement system that sends you the signal into your brainchip is hackable on specific areas so that city raids are still an option. full hacker bring those systems down.
the le chip could be taken out of the game, because it had to be so deep implemented in the brain, that any try of taking it out would do too much harm.
so the law enforcement is much easier to be changed by the devs in the future
just some thoughts
its not about more people, you have think objectiv about that. you have to design the le for the future game play.
the idea that the le is only working in specific areas is very good solution.
the core of the game is the rough world.
maybe you could even project it with roleplay...
who uses the law enforcement system and who not?
of course neocron uses it, but the canyon? definitely not.
who invented it? i guess fallen angels, so th could be a law enforced zone?
this way we dont need safe zones, just law enforced zones.
maybe further content could be, that the law enforcement system that sends you the signal into your brainchip is hackable on specific areas so that city raids are still an option. full hacker bring those systems down.
the le chip could be taken out of the game, because it had to be so deep implemented in the brain, that any try of taking it out would do too much harm.
so the law enforcement is much easier to be changed by the devs in the future
just some thoughts
Me likes :)
I played nc1 and i have nice memories about that time.. I remember nobody had le back then.. Returned to the game few months ago and yes i levelled without le now also. I was brutally ganked only once!
Id like to think neocron is more hardcore game than many others..but the le trend which is going on makes it more of a carebear game..bleh.
I like the idea on this thread and support it.
Atleast zones where you can farm rares,mc5 etc should be non le. All who farm those are farming them for pvp use anyway..
Used to be this way, I will always support it going back to a similar model.
Also, in response to the guy that said "who levels with no LE anyway?" Me, always have, since launch.
However, as usual, I'll point out that this discussion is academic (and well trodden, at that) until we hear what the DEV intent for the LE is.
this.
Proper Dungeon and vehicle mechanics would solve 90% of the problems.
LE isnt the problem, abuse is. fortunately there are ways to combat abuse without combatting the player base.
this.
LE isnt the problem, abuse is. fortunately there are ways to combat abuse without combatting the player base.
This is right!
Fortunately the dev team has no intention to take the LE out of the game. The problem is the same as many others in "real life" - simple soluitions mostly fail because life and society aren't simple as all.
If one would change LE settings one has to care about the complete surrounding of the social ineractions ingame and the criminal watch, e.g. the soul light system for example.
Whatever you have experienced (something here sounds very naive), be sure that there are a lot of antisocial players hidden in anonymity which give a shit on RP, game rules or "normal" behaviour as intended. Therefore all these game mechanics hav to be reworked carefully to ensure that Neocron will not be a gankers paradise for antisocial gamers. There is only a very small minority of gamers which prefer such a "rough world" as a game for freetime and entertainment. The other players will leave a game like this (as they did in masses in the last years of cheating and abusing), that's for sure.
I still have some problems to understand why we have to eliminate a PVE-LE-Playstyle from the game, because if player numbers are big enough there should be no probllem to have a complete coexistence between the playstyles and the player can choose. Eliminate the exploiting options for abusing a LE and that's it.
Making such massive restrictions for LE'd players is as making the LE complete worthless. If it is only working in Plaza 1 for what a LE is good anymore ?
Reed
Here's a philosophical LE question.
If a GM spawned a badass mob in a place you didn't expect it, but was totally acceptable in rules of the game (i.e. not in a "safe, can't draw weapons" area) and you died, is that acceptable? Why or why not? If this is acceptable, why do the same rules not apply to a player (bored or otherwise?) - In short, if you are OK with an accidental PVE kill, what makes an accidental PVP kill any different?
Or, for further simplification, what makes a player any different than an unexpected high level mob?
I realize maybe this should be a thread by itself. If so, please calve it off, devs. It is a serious philosophical exploration that I'm endeavoring to foster here.
demonssword
06-04-13, 11:24
I know this has gone off topic because of the post before mine, but still. My views are on the first page of this one. :)
IF a GM / Dev spawns up a "badass mob" in a place you didn't expect, they normally give warning of such events like when the warbots, elves, santa or kamikaze guys spawned outside MB or Neocron. OR when they did it over xmas / new year they said it was gunna happen in P2 so you could avoid the limited part of that area it effected.
More recently they made a mass overspawn in Regants Legacy where you had 200 or so mobs but no boss endlessly respawning in the high security room. You could only see about 100 at any one time what made life difficult, and they changed it back after a day. This as far as I could tell was a stress test experiment. But some people used it to WoC characters. One of which was a tank who went from normal 100str cap to WoC 5 in about 8 hours of playing. Others got from normal cap to WoC 1 on multiple characters on APUs or Droners.
As per normal some people loved this and worked out ways to gain the huge xp available to them there, others who wanted to level as normal or were to weak to survive in the area found that they had a long run down to lv2 only to end up dead in a couple of minutes and have to run back again and complained.
In my opinion, the people who complained had a fair case to complain that they could not level there, though other places were still open for them to level in so could have just gone somewhere else. However a lot of people enjoyed this event that only lasted 1 day and found that this gave them something fun to do in a game that at times just becomes a grind going from levelling a char, farming rareparts / mc5 / WoC disks / Ultimas and slot enhancers.
Personally I would like to see more events like this, maybe the juggernaut facility doors open up and juggernauts spawn in I-09, then a few hours later I-10 then -> H-10 then -> G-10 then -> G-09 then finally -> F-09 Blackmist Garbage Dump. This avoids all Op zones and story wise it might be that they are requiring salvage to gather more parts to make more juggernauts or who ever is running the place finds out a power source or experimental processor or something has been accidently dumped there and wants it.
Again if this happens people might complain they cant level / hunt in the zones they want. But if its limited time only its fine so long as warning is given in some form that these zones are going to be more dangerous for a while.
[...]Therefore all these game mechanics hav to be reworked carefully to ensure that Neocron will not be a gankers paradise for antisocial gamers.[...]
The main question is: Do these rules really need to be implemented in game mechanics or is it possible to enforce them by player interaction and socialization?
For example, let's think about the other way around: If we would make high-level caves battle zones without belt drop and soul light loss, and deactivating the LE, would it regulate itself by the players or not ?
More recently they made a mass overspawn in Regants Legacy where you had 200 or so mobs but no boss endlessly respawning in the high security room. You could only see about 100 at any one time what made life difficult, and they changed it back after a day. This as far as I could tell was a stress test experiment. But some people used it to WoC characters. One of which was a tank who went from normal 100str cap to WoC 5 in about 8 hours of playing. Others got from normal cap to WoC 1 on multiple characters on APUs or Droners.
You mean this particular occurrence?
Regants Boss room bug (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXeNBL9d6zk)
braydagner
06-04-13, 19:30
LE isnt the problem, abuse is. fortunately there are ways to combat abuse without combatting the player base.
this.
now enough with these these fucking anti-LE threads already. it's been a part of the game since it was a game. don't like it? tough. i would bet money that this game would get almost no new people if /2's were getting killed while they tried to level. and i think we all know that most of the LE whiners are the people that love to kill /2's.
You are completely wrong about people want to kill /2 level characters..i levelled without LE and was killed once when was about lvl 50. the game is more alive without LE..everyone wearing LE is like everyone playing a single player game..
Why are you talking such nonsense?? Have you levelled without LE? Have you been ganked when lvl2?
The one whining is you.. Le is part of the game yes. But what you dont realise the world is more alive when people dont have LE..like back in the nc1 days. Yes some got ganked but then came people to help and it was fucking awesome..
You are completely wrong about people want to kill /2 level characters..i levelled without LE and was killed once when was about lvl 50. the game is more alive without LE..everyone wearing LE is like everyone playing a single player game..
Why are you talking such nonsense?? Have you levelled without LE? Have you been ganked when lvl2?
The one whining is you.. Le is part of the game yes. But what you dont realise the world is more alive when people dont have LE..like back in the nc1 days. Yes some got ganked but then came people to help and it was fucking awesome..
ok #1 to call someone completely wrong because their point of view is diffrent from yours is ignorant.
#2 whats fun for you is not exactly fun for everyone else. hell, its fun for ALOT of people, but its NOT fun for ALOT of other people
for example im in ceres lab and one of my clan mates gets ganked at regants. now im dual logged on ppu and tank trying to farm for woc and disk. ive got to run 2 chars out safely and log them off then run ALLL the way to regants to find out that its all over. i just did all that for nothing.....for NOTHING(this is neither fun or exciting for me at all). if im le'd, i dont have those distractions so i can get to my goal which is level my guys to cap and op fight. i could care less about ganking and p2, fun for me are op fights. and im not alone here, there are alot of people who feel the same, and thats the side that gankers know and whine on the forums to change. dont screw one set of player to appease the other type of player. keep it fair all around, and let pvp happen for those that want it not those that dont.
No, i said he is wrong. He is. I meant the part where he said all who complain about LE and wants it removed are players who want to gank lvl 2s. So please, drop it.. You are the ignorant one.
lol at this thread close already :p
[F6]Knight
07-04-13, 07:32
This thread got so derailed that some of you can't see the forest through the trees anymore.
It's not about removing the LE.
It's about brainstorming to find some acceptable solutions to solve the current abuse that comes with the LE but at the same time not screwing over the leveling people because there are too many bored gankers out there that don't care if they kill a 75/65 or a 1/2.
Hence the OP's idea to disable the LE in some zones.
It was also pretty clear that he wanted to start a brainstorm about which zones should and should not disable the LE, instead a few people start attacking and insulting each other.
It baffles me that after all these years, the NC forum community is still mostly a bunch of squabbling little kids.
It seems that while the game got 10 years older, some of you have been stuck in a bubble where time stood still.
I'm sure that my previous 3 sentences have hurt some major e-peen out there but someone had to say it.
I'll now try to add something useful to this thread again and hopefully the people who got butthurt will take a deep breath and count to 10 before replying.
Let's try to continue this discussion in a useful matter so the devs can get a half decent idea of our concerns and possible solutions.
I still largely stand by my previous statement from the first page regarding which zones should and shouldn't disable the LE.
I only wish to slightly change my opinion about the wasteland.
Previously I suggested to make the entire wasteland unLE'd, but that might be a bit harsh after all.
After some consideration I now suggest the following wasteland zones and dungeons to be unLE'd:
- Warzones: It avoids abuse during OP fights and you don't drop a belt there anyway. It can screw over people who try to do TL150 res mission since they can be ganked, but unfortunately most of them use scripts / macro's to automate it all for them so I don't really give a damn that they get ganked and wake up in the morning with only 10 TL150 cubes instead of 4 stacks. Serves them right.
- Any high level zone / dungeon where it's pretty clear that it's being used to farm mostly for PvP items. MC5, DOY tunnels, Juggernaut facility, the areas for the DOY quest, ... you get the idea.
Frankly, it has been said before (and I agreed then, heck I've started this same thread!)
And until we are told what the LE is meant to enable, we will just say the same things, and attack each other, which is why I just stay out. My opinion is articulated in the LE thread *I* started, and I wasn't the first by far. The flame wars are out of line for sure, but we've all stated our positions a hundred times, and until someone in development says "LE's are for high level farming!" or "LE's are for newbs!" or "LEs are intended to allow ________!" Then we will all just be blabbing our loudmouth opinions with no guidance.
"What is the goal of the LE?" is the necessary answer before we continue.
You are completely wrong about people want to kill /2 level characters..i levelled without LE and was killed once when was about lvl 50. the game is more alive without LE..everyone wearing LE is like everyone playing a single player game..
Why are you talking such nonsense?? Have you levelled without LE? Have you been ganked when lvl2?
The one whining is you.. Le is part of the game yes. But what you dont realise the world is more alive when people dont have LE..like back in the nc1 days. Yes some got ganked but then came people to help and it was fucking awesome..
Sinple: He is not whining, thats more the proposals to remove the LE. And its you who is talking nonsense. NC1 is gone forever, take it. The player base has changed. You were lucky if you weren't kill only once, then you didn't met the right people. I remember some guys and whole clans for which ganking was the only game goal. And most of the actual (for years now) player base IS levelling with LE. So this is a normal majority. The people who level with LE are much more than the few which starts one anti-LE-thread after another.
What is your guys problem if you state that player with LE play a single player game and do not interact with the rest ???
What is your problem to miss the game atmosphere if there are LE players ? Nothing enough to gank ?
Let the player choose their playstyle and the point of time to remove it. Most of all players remove the LE if they are capped/ wocced.
All this anti-LE threads are only good for ruining the game and make the player base smaller.
Reed
Thread destroyed :(
Try and stick to the original idea guys!
This thread is obviously about LE players and their unrestricted access to end-game content, not about protecting the oh-so important 0/2 noobs.
Reed replying the same rethoric in every thread concerning LE is rather off-topic, since nothing here is about playstyle; it's about access to content and competing for it, which is usually part of an online game and forced onto all players.
A lot of people feel we should be forced to compete for end-game loot and that LE should NOT be an exemption to that.
This thread is obviously about LE players and their unrestricted access to end-game content, not about protecting the oh-so important 0/2 noobs.
Reed replying the same rethoric in every thread concerning LE is rather off-topic, since nothing here is about playstyle; it's about access to content and competing for it, which is usually part of an online game and forced onto all players.
A lot of people feel we should be forced to compete for end-game loot and that LE should NOT be an exemption to that.
Yes, of course i am replying as ever same arguments in every new revolving thread about removing/ damaging the LE game feature by people which repeating ever the same nonsense claims.
How much tries we are counting now to turn Neocron into a so-called rough end-time world without thinking about that this is not real life but a game ? And a game needs careful thought over game mechanics to hinder absolute destructive and psychotic people to hijack the game for their needs....
i can accept that some people have very different feelings than i have concerning the game playstyle options, but i guess that 48 anti-LE-Threads are more than enough and everything is said. The devs have now enough things to think about in which direction the game should be turned, but: it is my game as same as it is yours and if one starts again and again same gankers-paradise threads i take the opportunity to contribute my 5 ct, Sir.
Reed
A lot of people feel we should be forced to compete for end-game loot and that LE should NOT be an exemption to that.
I would argue the opposite. I would say from looking at the game, and the amount of people who prefer to level with the LE in, that the vast majority of players Don't want to compete for end-game loot. The vast majority of players Don't want what you are proposing, as is evident by the amount of LE'd people leveling.
Here's a proposal that should solve your problems. Re-create and duplicate MC5, DOY tunnels, Juggernaut facility, the areas for the DOY quest, in new zones and make them Un-LE only. This way if there is an LE'd team leveling in one of the original dungeons you can just go to the UN-LE'd version and compete against other UN-LE'd people for it (if there is anyone else there). There's certainly enough space for this to be done, with the vast majority of sectors that are currently unused. And we don't even alienate anyone by doing this...
How do you know WHY they keep their LE's in for leveling Faid? I kept mine in because why bother taking it out when LE's get such a major advantage?
I started taking them out early on my last few characters and capped, being killed maybe twice. People need to stop being such babies and crying about "What if I get killed!!!!1". You're not special, no one cares about you enough to kill you.
The reason why LE should not work at mc5 for example is that you go there as unLEd just to notice there are LEd droners farming and you cant do anything about it. Not even just that..but the fact that the LE droners pull all mob aggro and drop it on you and youre dead..not 1 or 2 times this has happened in game.
So a) you need to be able to fight for that loot and b) the LEd people abuse the le mechanism..they kill players without the risk of being killed themselves.
not all do that but then its only the a) part.
The reason why LE should not work at mc5 for example is that you go there as unLEd just to notice there are LEd droners farming and you cant do anything about it. Not even just that..but the fact that the LE droners pull all mob aggro and drop it on you and youre dead..not 1 or 2 times this has happened in game.
So a) you need to be able to fight for that loot and b) the LEd people abuse the le mechanism..they kill players without the risk of being killed themselves.
not all do that but then its only the a) part.
ANd here's the answer to your dilemma.
Here's a proposal that should solve your problems. Re-create and duplicate MC5, DOY tunnels, Juggernaut facility, the areas for the DOY quest, in new zones and make them Un-LE only. This way if there is an LE'd team leveling in one of the original dungeons you can just go to the UN-LE'd version and compete against other UN-LE'd people for it (if there is anyone else there). There's certainly enough space for this to be done, with the vast majority of sectors that are currently unused. And we don't even alienate anyone by doing this...
@Strife.
Ask around ingame Strife and you will find that they do it so as not to be griefed while leveling. I get that you don't like the LE and you want to be able to kill anyone all the time even if they're just trying to level but most people don't want to deal with that kind of abuse, especially while leveling. I get that LE's can sometimes mess up high end leveling spots, thats why I proposed a solution that would solve everyone's problems and it shouldn't be too difficult to implement.
MMM.. No. High risk=high reward, low risk=low reward.
If your idea were implemented that would mean LEd players would keep farming there like it is now and making alot of Mc5 to equip on their pvp characters.. And unLed would be busy fighting each other(which is fine of course) or at the other place same as its now, watching droners get it all and cant do nothing about it than die when droner think its funny to drop aggro.
Oh ok, I get it. You just want to punish LE'd people as much as possible, you don't want viable solutions, you just want to be able to gank anyone anywhere regardless of their level. Why didn't you just say that in the first place?
Although the fact that you just want to be able to gank people isn't a real reason to change the entire LE system I would think.
Doc Holliday
08-04-13, 04:56
chicken and egg situation. the people keep the LE in for fear of getting ganked. the would-be "pker" doesnt even bother to go looking for people to pk because he knows the majority of people in this game are too frightened to take the LE out.
In short this community has gone soft. Im going to log in one day and change my clan rank to "I was pked by a unicorn" because thats pretty much what it is. A mythical creature.
Trust me. the above is from personal experience. I have gone round the wastes looking for people to fight. Livens up the game a bit. Admittedly i have had some good ones and lost as many as i have won but its that surge of adrenaline that i played nc for.
Too many people have got this lovely soft warm fuzzy blanket over them which IN MY OPINION ONLY deprives them of the essence of what made this game so special. The Action. The RUSH. the danger of getting attacked and having a good old fashioned scrap. for that to happen though as stated they need an equal chance of a fair fight. for that to happen we need to have this pile of shit that is 2.2 fixed and rebalanced and made viable. so it all comes back to that.
I realise this is OT but i think it fits in theme with the general discussion and is not pure rhetoric.
flame at will nubs. i dont care :)
Honestly one day this community will stop being so damned care bear. I hope.
Assimilator
08-04-13, 05:03
I have gone round the wastes looking for people to fight...
You chose to go searching for a fight. When I'm running around the wastes non-capped (or even near capped), the last thing I want is an adrenaline rush cause I just got ganked by some player who ran out of other things to do.
I still play Neocron for the PvP. That's exactly why I'm in a clan with a character I feel is "combat ready" taking part in OP wars. It's the ability to choose my fights, just like it was your choice to go searching for one as well.
But yes, chicken and egg. If would-be PKers want a fight, broadcast in OOC for a fight.
No faid.. I do not want punish anyone.. Dont know how high risk=high reward policy is a punish to anyone. Its the same for everyone.
I just want that feel in the game what doc described.
Assimilitar doc said looking for a fight, not a gank.. Huge difference.
Some people without LE might be frustrated about the lack of other unLed people so they might kill or gank just anyone without LE..but that is rare and i dont understand why people are scared about it.
Split the god damn server already.
Everyone that loves Neocron because it is/was more than just PvE with LE and "meaningless" PvP in special zones made for it, will be driven away by what Neocron currently is.
Everyone of the guys that showes up on every thread about LE to hate on imaginary gankers/pks etc. etc. will never be open to any limitations to LE.
But either wipe both servers or make a copy of Titan. (I could vomit every time somone says Neptune was a failure bc noone wants to play on a PvP server) (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/false-cause)
Doc Holliday
08-04-13, 09:21
That's exactly why I'm in a clan with a character I feel is "combat ready" taking part in OP wars. It's the ability to choose my fights, just like it was your choice to go searching for one as well.
:lol: you summed up 90% of the community with this post. and thats a sad fact. the randomness of fights blowing up in the wastes was a great thing. gone are the days of someone walking in to a zone and killing everyone and players converging on that person to kill him or running like hell from him when they knew he was there (starkes springs to mind but im sure there were others too.) Now its all keep your LE In till your Char is "Combat Ready" and then go and get ppu buffs in p1 and zone to p2 and try to fight or hide behind the cop bots.
Watered down pvp. worse than watered down beer.
Get back on topic. If you want to discuss the LE in general there's a thread for that. (http://forum.neocron-game.com/showthread.php?148968-Just-remove-the-LE-okay)
RogerRamjet
08-04-13, 10:14
But either wipe both servers or make a copy of Titan. (I could vomit every time somone says Neptune was a failure bc noone wants to play on a PvP server) (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/false-cause)
So what was the reason for this failure then? All it did was alienate the French guys who played and make another fine example that the majority of people playing the game at the time didn't actually want what KK gave them, despite asking for it constantly (just like BDoY).
PVP, PVE and levelling has existed in unison since this game began. Being on edge in the wastes levelling was part of the game, and you know if you saw a red coming towards you you either better be fast or get the first few blows in and go down fighting.
But splitting servers is the worst possible idea to deal with this. The games been through all that already.
And getting PKed whilst lvling counts as griefing now :wtf:
The recreation of key dungeons would indirectly solve a large chunk of the LE dilemma. Even better I'd love to see the dungeons instanced by party similar to Word of Warcraft. Either way would be an equivalent solution to the LE working only in designated areas.
The recreation of key dungeons would indirectly solve a large chunk of the LE dilemma. Even better I'd love to see the dungeons instanced by party similar to Word of Warcraft. Either way would be an equivalent solution to the LE working only in designated areas.
Oh ... my ... god!
you serious?
Oh ... my ... god!
you serious?
I hope it's a troll post mocking Faid.
Clearly I'm missing some key piece of data for it to be considered a troll post.
Deus Ex Machina
08-04-13, 19:30
Clearly I'm missing some key piece of data for it to be considered a troll post.You included "instance" and "like World of Warcraft" in your post. If you don't get the problem over that, you will be considered to not have breathed enough Neocron athmosphere and are invited to breathe some more :)
I too dislike the idea of instances in Neocron, one really important part of Neocron is: Wherever someone is, I could, theoretically, get there too.
I also disagree with the instancing. Makes me puke a little in my mouth everytime I read this, and I just swallow it back.
I would by far much rather a clear position by the DEV team on whether or not LE players should be allowed access to end-game content.
Yes I too would like to hear the Dev's clear position on whether they should restrict endgame content from 75% of the community.
Restrict?? I thought this thread was talking about just changing specific areas so that the LE would not work there. Its not restricting anything.. just puts everyone on the same line.
speaking of wow, even wow has more open world pvp than neocron and there is no LE to protect you. Lol, just saying..
Yes I too would like to hear the Dev's clear position on whether they should restrict endgame content from 75% of the community.
And why said 75% miss out on the core design of the game. NC was developed and envisioned as a PvP game. Everything in it servers this goal. It's perfect.
The LE was introduced to protect small runners while leveling. Now it has evolved into a PvE-only game style. I'm fine with that, everybody can play the game the way they want.
But was it meant to be this way ?
And why do 75% of the players avoid the current PvP design ?
You are of the opinion then that everyone should be at risk of being killed wherever they go, regardless of their level. Because the game was originally designed this way 10 years ago? I 'm kinda in agreement with you on that point but the game certainly isnt what it was 10 years ago.
When I first played on Pluto everyone pulled their LE on day one and leveled in the dangerous atmosphere that NC was intended to be. But the people back then didn't kill anyone and everyone simply because they were bored. Faction relations were respected, alliances were respected, Clan relations were respected and low level characters trying to level were respected. There is litterally none of this respect in the current game today.
This directly contributes to the current situation we now have with the LE'd people today. The game wasn't designed as a shoot everyone free for all style sandbox. Your actions were supposed to have consequences. Those consequences are laughable now, and no one cares about them. It's nothing to go RED SL now, faction sympathy doesn't mean anything and relations with other players are the last thing on peoples minds. Try leveling in Regants without an LE, people who are in your own faction will try to kill you. I dont think this is what they had in mind when they designed the game
I would surmise that people avoid the current pvp design while leveling because the current design fucks them over.
[F6]Knight
09-04-13, 01:18
Jest, recreating some dungeons or even making them instanced might solve the LE abuse in PvE but it does nothing for PvP.
There will still be people driving an LE'd quad on top of corpses to block rezzing or scouting with an LE'd char without the risk of being detected and killed.
Faid, why do you insist that any change to the LE will let us kill anyone anywhere? Or restrict endgame content for 75% of the community?
This is the last time I'm going to repeat myself.
The OP's idea is to disable the LE in some zones, balanced in such a way that non capped people still have safe places to level where their LE will work, but capped people will have more zones where they can fight anyone they find, which will be mainly warzones and zones where endgame PvP gear is farmed (MC5, DOY tunnels, Ceres labs, ...)
The only way this really hurts PvE players is that they can now be ganked when afk macro'ing research cubes at ops and when they try to farm endgame PvP gear. But the almight droner aside, people usually take teams to farm endgame PvP gear and should be able to defend themselves from gankers or at least die trying. That's the spirit of NC.
Strife also got a good point in post 33. Why bother to take out the LE when it gives such a huge advantage in every single zone without any real penalty? And even though that's a discussion for another thread, I think that it's very closely related to the reason why silenteye made this thread.
Knight;2208728']J
Faid, why do you insist that any change to the LE will let us kill anyone anywhere? Or restrict endgame content for 75% of the community?
This is the last time I'm going to repeat myself.
The OP's idea is to disable the LE in some zones, balanced in such a way that non capped people still have safe places to level where their LE will work, but capped people will have more zones where they can fight anyone they find, which will be mainly warzones and zones where endgame PvP gear is farmed (MC5, DOY tunnels, Ceres labs, ...)
.
OK this is the last time I'm going to repeat myself, if you really want a solution to the OP's problem with LE'd people and high end leveling spots here it is.
Here's a proposal that should solve your problems. Re-create and duplicate MC5, DOY tunnels, Juggernaut facility, the areas for the DOY quest, in new zones and make them Un-LE only. This way if there is an LE'd team leveling in one of the original dungeons you can just go to the UN-LE'd version and compete against other UN-LE'd people for it (if there is anyone else there). There's certainly enough space for this to be done, with the vast majority of sectors that are currently unused. And we don't even alienate anyone by doing this...
Faid, that idea is so bad.. That would just mean it would be much easier for you to go farm end game gear..you could do it 24/7 with your le droner without anyone interrupting in your own lovely instance..yeah recreate, recreat it so that your le wont work there. Dont understand why that bothers you so much. Those places are meant to be farmed in groups anyway..and the gear is for your unLed fighter so why not bring that along to farm.
Nice speach about what neocron used to be. Have you some kind of proof what you claim there? People not respecting faction relations etc..? I levelled alot in reagants without LE.. Wasnt killed even by reds or neutrals. Well some reds were acting hostile so i had to make a run for it :D but that is just great and what makes neocron, neocron. Stop scaring people with your own fears.. There is not that ganking you speak of..even if were it would bring back some good old open world pvp because you should alert someone there if you cant defend yourself and being ganked.
The irony is, that the LE is, what destroyed the need for faction relations etc.
I have a differeent view here.
The posibility of faction change destoys the faction relations.
This guides to make all epics as only the CA Epic Item is bound to the faction.
See no problem produced by the LE in this case.
RogerRamjet
09-04-13, 12:41
When I first played on Pluto everyone pulled their LE on day one and leveled in the dangerous atmosphere that NC was intended to be. But the people back then didn't kill anyone and everyone simply because they were bored. Faction relations were respected, alliances were respected, Clan relations were respected and low level characters trying to level were respected. There is litterally none of this respect in the current game today.
This directly contributes to the current situation we now have with the LE'd people today. The game wasn't designed as a shoot everyone free for all style sandbox. Your actions were supposed to have consequences. Those consequences are laughable now, and no one cares about them. It's nothing to go RED SL now, faction sympathy doesn't mean anything and relations with other players are the last thing on peoples minds. Try leveling in Regants without an LE, people who are in your own faction will try to kill you. I dont think this is what they had in mind when they designed the game
I was considering making a thread about fixing the symp/faction relation system. At the moment there's no real consequences to PKing anyone and everyone. The system certainly needs an overhaul.
I was considering making a thread about fixing the symp/faction relation system. At the moment there's no real consequences to PKing anyone and everyone. The system certainly needs an overhaul.Going RED sl and dropping all of your weapons and PA?
Faid, that idea is so bad.. That would just mean it would be much easier for you to go farm end game gear..you could do it 24/7 with your le droner without anyone interrupting in your own lovely instance..yeah recreate, recreat it so that your le wont work there. Dont understand why that bothers you so much. Those places are meant to be farmed in groups anyway..and the gear is for your unLed fighter so why not bring that along to farm.
First off, I dont have an LE'd droner who farms anything. I have like 8 UN-LE'd capped chars, the only LE'd people I have are tradeskillers. I do go to MC5 in a team, my clanmates and I do it frequently with tanks and PPU. Occasionally we will run into a LE'd guy trying to drone it solo, but it's rarely been a problem at all for us. We outdamage his drone easily.
I don't get your rhetoric Juppe, I give you a real solution to the problem that won't piss off 75% of the community that is LE'd and you dismiss it because you just dont like LE'd people. You don't want LE'd people to play the game. This is the part that annoys me, you are actively trying to drive people away from the game when we desperately need people to stay. Trying to force people into a playstyle that they don't like will do exactly that. People will eventually shed their LE's in their own time, forcing the issue isn't the way to go.
As I said before the old game system doesn't work any longer. You cant just scream on alliance that you got PK'd and have an army of defenders show up to avenge you. Do you even play this game now? Who are your ingame chars, maybe then I can get a better understanding of why you come off as so un-informed.
Going RED sl and dropping all of your weapons and PA?
"Stay at home" - No one can access your Appartment, so u can idle there with red SL and everything will be okay.
And with Support you can manage Missions, not a big deal..
It's been said before but what we really need is a comprehensive list from the developers of things the LE is intended to accomplish in game. If the LE is intended only as a low level aid then I'd say it might be possible. But if the developers intend for capped characters to be able to use the LE to play the game without risk of getting attacked then I'd put removing LE from warzones at the top of my list of things that are never going to happen.
As far player interractions goes, the LE widespread use most definitly made faction relation irrelevant to their "playstyle". Not green on green killing and clan wars, as clan waging wars for faction supremacy plays within the intended rules.
Standing hand in hand with enemy factions in say P2 or Regeant was probably not the intended gameplay.
.
...... But the people back then didn't kill anyone and everyone simply because they were bored. Faction relations were respected, alliances were respected, Clan relations were respected and low level characters trying to level were respected. There is litterally none of this respect in the current game today.
This directly contributes to the current situation we now have with the LE'd people today. The game wasn't designed as a shoot everyone free for all style sandbox. Your actions were supposed to have consequences. Those consequences are laughable now, and no one cares about them. It's nothing to go RED SL now, faction sympathy doesn't mean anything and relations with other players are the last thing on peoples minds. Try leveling in Regants without an LE, people who are in your own faction will try to kill you. I dont think this is what they had in mind when they designed the game.............
And this is a very brilliant analysis what Neocron is today, and was it since i started playing end of 2005 !
But who wonders ? Most of the ant-LE-driven posts here are originated exactly from this described player type - the pvp-only player, see below. And this is a reason for stating that an overhauling of a LE mechanic without renewing the "consequences systems" like criminal watch / soul light etc. must fail.
Knight;2208728']......
The OP's idea is to disable the LE in some zones, balanced in such a way that non capped people still have safe places to level where their LE will work, but capped people will have more zones where they can fight anyone they find, which will be mainly warzones and zones where endgame PvP gear is farmed (MC5, DOY tunnels, Ceres labs, ...)
Look for this playstyle. player type as described above : kill-on-sight everyone which is found on the map without LE. This should be the intention of the game ? Really ?
Knight;2208728']
........The only way this really hurts PvE players is that they can now be ganked when afk macro'ing research cubes at ops and when they try to farm endgame PvP gear. But the almight droner aside, people usually take teams to farm endgame PvP gear and should be able to defend themselves from gankers or at least die trying. That's the spirit of NC.......
PVE-Players = griefers, PVE-players = exploiters, PVE-players = macro-user.
Simple mathematics, no ?
In all the years of playing Neocron (oh, sorry with 7 of 8 non-LE'd characters xD), most of cheating/ exploiting i had to witness was done by pvp-players/ clans only.
This then should be solved before changing complex LE game mechanics.
Reed
The priorities here arn't right, Reed.
Focus of the dev team is put on fixing game exploits. A LOT of players knowingly use the LE to exploit and stretch game mechanics to their advantages.
I wont list them, but there is 5 common LE exploits I can name off the top of my head, and the community demands for them to be addressed.
Fixing SL/FS rules should come far below in the priority list, as it doesnt currently hinder people's gaming experience in an easily exploitable way. Very few people use FS/SL exploits, as very few exists.
Please realise that the LE is a common source of exploits for PVP and even PVE gaming aspects, and needs to be addresed ASAP whereas FS/SL rules are rather non-urgent and uncommon.
Eternal Pink
09-04-13, 19:32
Knight;2208728']There will still be people driving an LE'd quad on top of corpses to block rezzing or scouting with an LE'd char without the risk of being detected and killed.
I'm confused by this, your saying that someone kills you on a non-LE'd char and then logs off and back on as a LE'd char to block you being rezzed? Since surely that's self defeating as the person that killed you has now taken themselves out of the fight for the sole purpose of keeping one other person out of the fight.
Or
Are you saying that someone kills you and then uses a dual logged LE'd char (somehow not getting killed while not paying attention to there unLE'd char) to drive on your corpse and block the rezz?
Since the first option makes no tactical sense unless you are known to be a godlike fighter and in which case how did you die in the first place for them to prevent your return to the fight?
The second option is only doable by people with dual accounts (so people that had 2+ accounts at the time the game was subscription) as we are not allowed to make a second account anymore so only real veterans of NC could do this.
Lastly is not this already covered under
You will not do anything else that interferes with the ability of other NEOCRON users to enjoy playing the game in accordance with its rules, or that increases the expense or difficulty of maintaining the NEOCRON Service for the enjoyment of all its users.
as the admin's have said they will enforce the rules now that KK never did.
RogerRamjet
09-04-13, 20:21
Going RED sl and dropping all of your weapons and PA?
OK, the consequences are avoidable, and easily counter-acted.
But like the weapons and PA aren't easily replaceable to most people, especially those to wilfully PK regardless of faction. This isn't a deterrent.
Ultimately I'd like to see a move towards a state where the LE doesn't exist or is disabled at a certain level, but the faction and SL system actually works. Make runners interact with one another again. From experience being in FETISH, ganking everyone (and boy, did we gank), is easy as hell and it's pretty easy to replace any items lost and to regain SL to an acceptable level. It's been a busted system for a long time.
Dealing with people who still go that far... I don't know. Make apartment doors hackable, dependent on SL like belts? It's easy enoigh on the citycom to see the majority of people on bad SL idling in their apartments.
@Pink
Runner ffrom clan dies, then instead of waiting for rez or login another fighter, he logs onto and LEd char, drives to OP and then proceeds to exploit. No one logs off an alive char to do it.
@Roger
I see were you come from but its a priority issue again for the Dev team.
Its either fix exploits ASAP, or wait for a long and complex fix to be developped, tested, and implemented.
RogerRamjet
09-04-13, 23:34
@Roger
I see were you come from but its a priority issue again for the Dev team.
Its either fix exploits ASAP, or wait for a long and complex fix to be developped, tested, and implemented.
Definitely. Weapon balance is priority for now.
Eternal Pink
10-04-13, 18:38
@Pink
Runner ffrom clan dies, then instead of waiting for rez or login another fighter, he logs onto and LEd char, drives to OP and then proceeds to exploit. No one logs off an alive char to do it.
Okay so its peeps that have already died doing it which makes sense but this does not sound like an LE issue to me it sounds like an exploit issue as it would be covered by either the rule I posted or the "you won't use any game bugs" rule since i'd be willing to wager that was never the intention of the LE so getting the peoples that do it banned would fix it.
Which would be better since other LE'd peeps aren't getting punished for someone elses actions and the people that are doing it do get punished.
People not respecting faction relations etc..? I levelled alot in reagants without LE.. Wasnt killed even by reds or neutrals. Well some reds were acting hostile so i had to make a run for it :D but that is just great and what makes neocron, neocron. Stop scaring people with your own fears.. There is not that ganking you speak of..even if were it would bring back some good old open world pvp because you should alert someone there if you cant defend yourself and being ganked.
So there is no ganking, eh?
Thats funny because when I started about a week ago, the first thing I did (like I did in the "good old days") was taking out the LE.
All was fine until I was waiting in Moxxi's appa for her to finish my TL20 gun, when suddenly a Hostile Fac Dissy Spy came in, instakilled me - then went out again.
Same day about a few hours later i dare zoning into P2, not knowing that this seems to be the current spot for lame ass zoning BS (back in the day I remember people doing that in PP2 with the subway) and someone hacks my belt to get a TL20 armor as phat lewt (congrats on whoever bolstered his epeen with that).
A day later at the Launcher Bunker near MB my brother got pestered by a capped dude with a STORM laser or something like that, who was actually trying to bully him into saying nice things about said guy (which really weirded me out..mental problems or low self-esteem probably), when I told him to stop (still on my lowbie tank) he asked me what my problem was and to get lost, like right now, when i did not, he shot me, then graciously told my brother that he "may live".
Same day few hours later I get insta-killed by the next guy with TL80+ weaponry while in the MB at the dataterm.
About half an hour later I get killed inside the launcher bunker by a 2 or 3 man team with rare gear, because " i could have looted a PPU's belt they just killed around there" of course I haad no idea what PPU they were talking about.
About ten minutes later another dude with rare guns tries to kill me at the gogu in MB again..luckily he was the worst shot I have ever met in NC, so I got away, but when I come to the launcher bunker, he is driving around it in circles and starts shooting at everyone without an LE, which unfortunately is only me, still being the worst shot ever, I manage to run away, only to get a direct in which he tells me that he could have killed me if he wanted to..but he likes it more when i run for my life and that he will kill me on sight, so his "mates have more to level".
I did not include 6 "accidental" deaths by capped players for being somewhere they didnt want/expect me to be and of course the 2 or three times i got instakilled at point red while trying to get the tier 2 brain imps.
All that of course before even hitting */30.
What I'm trying to say is, if you really believe that there is no ganking/accidental killing or whatever of low rank players..you need to wake up.
And yes, there is not a lot of respect for factions/low ranks from what I have experienced in the last week, that dude with the STORM laser was one of ours (TT) he just didnt give a shit. When I started NC1 back in the day, I got killed by capped players as well..but they rezzed me ASAP, apologized and most of the time even gave me a tip for my trouble, no matter what faction they belonged to.
The LE is important to enable people to avoid all that, because YES, people got softer and nowadays if a game is not fun, they stop playing it pretty fast.
Having said that, I still am in favor of restricting the LE to sectors where "endgame" loot is not uncontestedly available.
There need to be proper leveling zones though, otherwise this won't work.
But rest assured, that crying for the LE to get removed entirely will result in the same sad empty servers that almost killed this great game before, because most people dont like to get fucked over until they can at least defend themselves.
[EDITED]
@Topic: Thats exactly why this thread is about LE being related to zones. I hate P2 sync laming more than anybody, but the lack of low-lvl vs high-lvl balance or lack of proper safezones/zone regulations in Neocron City doesn't mean, that in an ideal patch level where this would be fixed, the LE would still be needed to protect noobs from douchebags.
i said it before and i say it again: implement proper punishment mechanisms that can't be abused (just saying, this doesn't always apply) and change it so that le'd players get no rare drops. this doesn't affect traders unless they want to cap their skills too.
Chuck Norris
16-04-13, 02:06
LE works in every zone but warzones IE: ops of any kind... Add some more places like battle-dome for people that dont want to PVP but still need vendor /gogu / GR ECT...
People are trying to twist this into, people with LE shouldn't be able to get X item; when this should be about "where full on PVP should be allowed?"
Lets go the opposite direction limit the areas where pvp is enabled, so if you want to pvp you go there (the wastes Ops)... clans will still have op jacking and they can whine to each other about ninja'ing/ganking ops/people. That way people can level and farm in peace and pvp can be consolidated to more suitable area.
Then we can just eliminate the LE completely; if you enter a war-zone (wastelands ops) your fair game.
Eternal Pink
16-04-13, 19:06
I think the problem is different people are after different types of PvP
When I played before in a op war clan we did want a fight not just the op and when I was out personally i'd rather die in a good fight than easily win but not many seems to want that.
From this thread and others some peeps would be happy with a long line of /2's they could shoot all day without moving just for the faction/SL and there definition of pvp appears to be just having anyone they can shoot.
You could totally remove the LE and stick in a combat rank check (coding permitting) and if the gap is more than say 15 levels then no damage is done - some peeps would love this others would hate it.
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