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View Full Version : [00830][R#181] Stealth Delay



Sausage Jockey
24-03-13, 18:10
Since the patch, it appears that even though you have activated the stealth tool on your client, everybody else still sees you unstealthed for around 2 seconds. Seen a lot of people talking about this on OOC too.

William Antrim
24-03-13, 20:08
That's a good thing tbh.

J@ck on Cr@ck
25-03-13, 00:55
That's a good thing tbh.

How is that a good thing?

onero S
25-03-13, 05:03
How is that a good thing?

He's implying that a stealth delay is good to keep people from instantly escaping fights.... regardless of the merit of this line of reasoning, the game being out of sync client-> server is not good and is a bug. If a stealth delay is desired that delay needs to be reflected client side too. I would imagine it's extremely frustrating being targeted when your char appears stealthed to you.

CritiNator
25-03-13, 09:54
If i remember correctly, this behaviour is intented. There was a patch long time ago, that changed this becouse stealth is used mid combat and immediately ends fight. I think it was supposed to be casting delay. You take (stealth ) tool to your hand and after 2s you can use it. Now, you can use it bit faster, but to others there's still the few seconds to finish the fight.
IMO it's good thing. Stealth tool is still very good escape tool, you just have to deside earlier if you wan't to flee.

SilentEye
25-03-13, 10:54
The solution to this problem is quite simple :)

The client that activates the stealth tool should wait with stealthing the player until a reply from the server stating that the user has stealthed is provided.

This would ensure that the player is seeing the same as other players. The user enters stealth only after the server acknowledges so :)

Faid
25-03-13, 16:42
This is definitely a bug, I can't count how many times I got hit after stealthing yesterday at an OP fight. Somewhat frustrating lol.

SilentEye
25-03-13, 17:06
Or you can turn it around and make the full thing client side, so when the client stealths he will ignore all damage received even though people on the other end of the server may still see the person as not stealthed.

Older shooters used to have server side hit registration, this had issues where you had to lead shoot targets to compensate for lag. So nowadays hit registration is done on the client side, this leads to people running behind corners walls and still dying because on the other client who is doing the shooting the person hasn't hid behind the corner wall yet.

The amount of times I hear people shout "I WAS BEHIND THE CORNER HOW DID HE SHOOT ME?!" with various games and I'm just thinking "it's the same for you the other way around :)".

It's always a client side vs server side story with these kind of things.

Pestilence
25-03-13, 17:22
Or you can turn it around and make the full thing client side, so when the client stealths he will ignore all damage received even though people on the other end of the server may still see the person as not stealthed.

Opens the door for all kind of client cheats. There is a reason for serverside actions.

elGringo
25-03-13, 17:25
Or you can turn it around and make the full thing client side, so when the client stealths he will ignore all damage received even though people on the other end of the server may still see the person as not stealthed.

Letting the client decide if it wants to take damage or not is a really, really bad idea.
There is a reason why the server has the last say in some matters.

I agree that this is a bug - the stealth status displayed locally must be in sync with the server/other clients. Wether there should be a delay with activating stealth or not - the state must be in sync.

SilentEye
25-03-13, 17:31
I understand your concerns elGringo :)

PsiCorps
25-03-13, 18:11
It's rarely a 2 second delay - The main killer is where you're stealthed for full duration on your client - but to everyone else you aren't.

I've had it many times where even on the last few seconds of stealth left, I'll get hit with a fire apoc etc.

I wouldn't mind if stealth just misfired and didn't show on your own client (giving you a chance to restealth or heal/fight etc)

Fix please!

Also, I notice when people die in this odd state - they die with their hands out like they were still trying to cast their stealth tool, even on their corpse.

Gunshifty
25-03-13, 18:56
It's rarely a 2 second delay - The main killer is where you're stealthed for full duration on your client - but to everyone else you aren't.

During an op fight yesterday I stealthed before I left the UG... Unless some members of a certain clan all have hax, I was getting demolished whilst stealth. On my client I was stealth, it may/may-not have been on everyone elses client.. :P

Ryan Flint
25-03-13, 22:43
yeah just got constantly hit by an apu although I was in full stealth the entire time ....

Faid
25-03-13, 23:36
During an op fight yesterday I stealthed before I left the UG... Unless some members of a certain clan all have hax, I was getting demolished whilst stealth. On my client I was stealth, it may/may-not have been on everyone elses client.. :P

We all saw you as not in stealth if this is the time you are referring to. Might have just bugged after the zone up.

Ryan Flint
26-03-13, 02:21
happened way to often today for all of us.

Netphreak
26-03-13, 14:20
P.S. Buff PE stealth so that it lasts long enough to be used to sync from UG and try to move away from it after sync.

onero S
26-03-13, 19:21
P.S. Buff PE stealth so that it lasts long enough to be used to sync from UG and try to move away from it after sync.

Eh, it's the UG system in general that needs rework.

Netphreak
27-03-13, 12:41
Eh, it's the UG system in general that needs rework.

True it does, but I was thinking more than if it takes 2 seconds to activate your stealth and you're on a PE were your stealth only 3 seconds it's almost completely pointless even trying to use it.

onero S
27-03-13, 19:41
True it does, but I was thinking more than if it takes 2 seconds to activate your stealth and you're on a PE were your stealth only 3 seconds it's almost completely pointless even trying to use it.

Fair enough, If stealth is changed to have a delay by design, I'll grant that 5 seconds may be somewhat pointless. That being said, I'd like to see some more ways to counter stealth (first and foremost true sight sanctum seems like it needs a fix, people apparently are running through it successfully without being seen).

William Antrim
27-03-13, 20:49
Its not the first stealth that is the problem. Spies need the first burst to get them out of the shit and stand a chance of healing off somewhere safe. It is the people who use it constantly to take a shot and wear down their opponent and then stealth away before he has a chance to retaliate fairly that are the problem.

If the stealth had a cool down on it then those players would have to go toe to toe finally with their opponent and actually risk their setups and skills vs their opponents or face death the same as a tank/pe/monk does.

Spies who abuse stealth are the reason it needs to be changed, not the people who use it for reconnaissance/evasion of others.

Stealth is a defence mechanism but it should not be used as a get out of jail free card every 2 seconds with no penalty. If there was a 5 second (for example) recharge time between uses then the spy would have the opportunity to use it once and get the fuck out of the way of his opponent and THEN decide if he wants to reattack or leave the area. If he wants to go back he should know that he has 5 seconds then to restealth or hope he kills his opponent first.

This is a much fairer (in my opinion) way of dealing with spies and stealth.

Dribble Joy
27-03-13, 23:36
True, though you also have a situation where people use it as a quit button if they are loosing, an option that other classes don't have.

Frankly I'm not sure what would be best, a delay, a cooldown or something else.

William Antrim
28-03-13, 01:13
A 1 second cast time delay and a 5 second cool down in my opinion.

Faid
28-03-13, 01:28
Stealth on a spy is an absolute must when fighting multiple people though, get in do some damage then stealth out before everyone shoots you at once.

Dropout
28-03-13, 14:53
A 1 second cast time delay and a 5 second cool down in my opinion.

Make it a 10 second cooldown, and I approve :p
I doubt 5 secs would change much ::: One burst into target -> stealth -> one or two bursts into target -> stealth -> etc.

William Antrim
28-03-13, 18:04
5 seconds is a long time when youre rapping that button and praying though my friend :)


However those sort of details are what the test server is for! :)

Dropout
28-03-13, 18:24
5 seconds is a long time when youre rapping that button and praying though my friend :)


However those sort of details are what the test server is for! :)

I know, but I dont think a 5sec cooldown will change much from how it is now ;)

That is very true though! Hope (if its even possible) that we will see this change at some point on the testserver :)

Faid
12-04-13, 19:24
This seems to be getting worse especially of late.

OP fighting I activate stealth (stealth II), on my screen I am in stealth but i am continuing to get shot, other people in my team tell me I am still visible. I have the stealth effect counter on the bottom right of my screen. I eventually disappear off other peoples screens a good 5-10 seconds after I activated stealth. This wasnt a 1-2 second delay it was significant.

This has happened multiple times at multiple fights and it has happened to other clanmates as well. Someone will say on TS "Faid stealth you're getting hit", to witch I reply "I am stealthed", to witch they reply "I can still see you".

If I were frapsing the fight yesterday, you would have thought the other team was using an aimbot. Which obviously they weren't because my own team could still see me.

This problem is getting to the point where people are starting to leave. Due to the ridiculous overpowered dissy or AK you absolutely need to be able to stealth quickly. With the speed nerf in effect you die so fast now to dissy/AK stealth is essential and when it's not working it's pointless to even fight.

demonssword
12-04-13, 23:45
http://forum.neocron-game.com/showthread.php?149713-R-181-Coming-out-of-stealth-on-others-screen-before-stealth-ends

Last post on there as well

Does the same go for things like med kits and stuff as well. Might be interesting to see as i have seen many people try to stealth or say they have but were still visable, or went stealth for a second or 2 then popped out without using a stealth breaker or having a True Sight up near them.

On another point however I did find out that 1 person who frequently complained that his stealth never ever seemed to work, but showed him stealthed on his screen actually had a problem that he didnt noticed and for some reason couldnt see. This was that his stealth tool had broken, and much like some implants that break but then cant be poked in when in your processor but when you inspect them show 4-5% left or whatever his was showing to him 5-10% and could be left in the quick slot and worked and continued to work even after relogging and posibly being like this for weeks. but on trading the item to me to test i saw that the item was on 0%.
So little piece of advice is get your tool checked (hehehe, getting your tool checked by someone else...) to see if its broken but not showing.

Might be an idea to check if your stealth tool is busted, or buy a new one anyway just incase its a buggy one.

Faid
13-04-13, 05:49
It's not just me though, this happens with multiple people. Although all day today it worked fine at the op fights. Dunno maybe its just server lag but when it happens it's crushing.

demonssword
13-04-13, 19:03
It's not just me though, this happens with multiple people. Although all day today it worked fine at the op fights. Dunno maybe its just server lag but when it happens it's crushing.

Was just saying it is worth a check :)

PsiCorps
15-04-13, 13:16
Was just saying it is worth a check :)

Some people get it more than others.
Myself (Nicholas Cage) and at leas one other clanmate get it almost constantly - I believe as stated before it may have something to do with using consumables whilst stealthed, I've noticed it most after that.

I also believe it may be something to do with activating stealth too quickly after switching. I'm trying to experiment with leaving it a few seconds - however it just gets me killed all the same ;)

[TgR]KILLER
15-04-13, 17:52
I've been getting the same bug all the time to.. dizzy spies keep shooting me while on my screen I'm already stealthed.. tool aint broken been getting it from the start (jones stealth tool)

only positive thing is it works both ways.. finally those damn dizzy spies drop death because they can't stealth away in time :P