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Alduin
03-03-13, 22:50
Cheers runners,

feel free to discuss the current testserver patch here. The corresponding patch notes may be found here (http://forum.neocron-game.com/showthread.php?147696-T-182-PTS-Patch-Notes).

Slauncha,
Alduin

Dribble Joy
03-03-13, 23:48
Liking what I see.

Tenchiro
03-03-13, 23:54
Fixed an error which lead to items dropping from the trade window back into the player's inventory

HAHAHAHA I lol'd. This cant be true. It's since 2002 / 2003 and now there is somebody who wanna fix the trade bug... http://www.pic4ever.com/images/uglydance.gif

IanKett
04-03-13, 00:12
What is the speed capped at now?

William Antrim
04-03-13, 00:23
What is the speed capped at now?



75/75 like it used to be ?

Dribble Joy
04-03-13, 00:55
Another question is if it's based on ath+agl or a separate soft cap for both.

Powerpunsh
04-03-13, 02:31
So i just compared the logs of my retail and testserver tank.

atl81/agl112
Retail: Character System: Acceleration 0.827 Speed 0.786 Jump 0.979
Testserver: Character System: Acceleration 0.719 Speed 0.647 Jump 0.758

atl102/agl112
Retail: Character System: Acceleration 0.884 Speed 0.840 Jump 1.010
Testserver: Character System: Acceleration 0.761 Speed 0.656 Jump 0.761

atl117/agl112
Retail: Character System: Acceleration 0.928 Speed 0.882 Jump 1.027
Testserver: Character System: Acceleration 0.806 Speed 0.669 Jump 0.773

IanKett
04-03-13, 03:41
So i just compared the logs of my retail and testserver tank.

atl81/agl112
Retail: Character System: Acceleration 0.827 Speed 0.786 Jump 0.979
Testserver: Character System: Acceleration 0.719 Speed 0.647 Jump 0.758

atl102/agl112
Retail: Character System: Acceleration 0.884 Speed 0.840 Jump 1.010
Testserver: Character System: Acceleration 0.761 Speed 0.656 Jump 0.761

atl117/agl112
Retail: Character System: Acceleration 0.928 Speed 0.882 Jump 1.027
Testserver: Character System: Acceleration 0.806 Speed 0.669 Jump 0.773

Epic test, thanks for the info and it looks fucking amazing

Powerpunsh
04-03-13, 03:51
Dont know how it occured but my creed got bugged after i shot a spy down and afterwards 2 shots on a ppu. After this ive reloaded the creed and the beam disappeard and i did no dmg in PVP. PVE damage was still possible.

edit: a full relog fixed the problem and beamweapons works fine so far.

Ryan Flint
04-03-13, 03:57
step in the right direction! feels much more like back in the days and you actually need a con setup again, some serious balancing of certain weapons will be needed next.

Powerpunsh
04-03-13, 04:06
I feel quite no difference in runspeed with PA or no PA. Thats good. :)
124atl/158agl sets my runspeed on 0,794 with PA
98atl/158agl sets my runspeed on 0,779 without PA

Did some fights against Ryan. If you leave it the way it is now we gonna see Tank'o'cron soon. Spies are aimable again quite well and with an eye on resis and damage the tank simply wins in all categories. :p

Doc Holliday
04-03-13, 08:00
:)

Man. i wanna get on the test server now. so bad. i have to be at work in less than an hour ;(

Love the changes. love the patch. Love the LE bit especially. helps with integrating people and it will mean maybe people will be grouping and talking and playing together more rather than ignoreing each other.

One question. I assume that Damage boost is still regarded as a weapon terms of what can be buffed to the LE runner. I would hate to see a bunch of noobs getting dbed by a ppu and i dont play with an LE in so i have no idea if an LE ppu can db a player with an LE currently.

I know the non LE ppu can db a non le runner. i do it daily. usually my own team ;)

gstyle40
04-03-13, 08:27
love the patch, welcome back healing light, oh how i have missed thee....oh and this also means pe's have a non woc option thats viable again. more test in pvp to come

flib
04-03-13, 10:52
The music patch works! :)

Massaker
04-03-13, 10:53
Dont know how it occured but my creed got bugged after i shot a spy down and afterwards 2 shots on a ppu. After this ive reloaded the creed and the beam disappeard and i did no dmg in PVP. PVE damage was still possible.

edit: a full relog fixed the problem and beamweapons works fine so far.

I had the same problem before one hour. I shoot with the creed but I didn't see any beam. A relogg over two minutes didn't fix the problem and I repead the relogg for five times.

Ivan Eres
04-03-13, 15:09
Thank you very much for making it possible for an un-LE'd PPU to support the LE'd people. This rocks.

William Antrim
04-03-13, 15:20
It will be good for getting buffs in p1 I think but in the real world I think I would be pretty pissed off if I was ppuing for a bunch of LE's and I ended up being the only one to get ganked.

However props for taking steps to get the two sides integrated. I am keen to see how the dynamic changes now for sure.

Gunshifty
04-03-13, 18:13
Dont know how it occured but my creed got bugged after i shot a spy down and afterwards 2 shots on a ppu. After this ive reloaded the creed and the beam disappeard and i did no dmg in PVP. PVE damage was still possible.

edit: a full relog fixed the problem and beamweapons works fine so far.

I was the spy you shot :P

Aside from that, my pistol spy is not going to like the speed nerf.. According to my logs (which I don't have access to atm since I'm at work), my retail(~105 ATH/~150 Agility) run-speed with buffs(spy3) & drugs(redflash/paratemol x-forte) put me around 0.904. On test server, with same buffs & drugs, AND with ALL my con points put into Athletics that put me somewhere around ~144 Ath, my run-speed was something around 0.77

Basically a 23 margin decrease in my spy's run-speed. I went from feeling like nothing could possibly hit me (think melee tank speed), to feeling like carrying my pistol was the equivalent to carrying a heavy cannon.

I'm not saying I dislike the patch/run-speed nerf.. It's best for me to actually experience patch 182 on retail before I start flaming/loving the "new direction" neocron is headed in.

last of all:

The music patch works! :)

I almost crapped my pants when I heard the music. I was like.. "can this be real? no f**king way"! Awesome jobs fixing the music/sound/audio bug!

ToxiN
04-03-13, 18:26
would be nice if the weight of speed from atl and agl get switched so we could use more points in resists atm atl counts more which is pretty sad i think

da_fu$e
04-03-13, 18:37
Es ist ja wirklich toll das man als non LE'ler nun LE'ler buffen kann. Aber wo ist der Malus für den LE'ler? Das die Vehicels zerstört werden können ist da nur ein schwacher Trost!

Trade Bug scheint wirklich weg zu sein...omg!

Der Speed fühlt sich fast wie früher an. Nun muss man die Resis oder den Weapon DMG anpassen.

Ivan Eres
04-03-13, 18:37
It will be good for getting buffs in p1 I think but in the real world I think I would be pretty pissed off if I was ppuing for a bunch of LE's and I ended up being the only one to get ganked.

That's true, but getting ganked is part of NC so nothing changes in regard to this. And imagine this: Maybe some of the LE'd guys will pull their LE out to help me the next time I get attacked.

I really like playing a PPU and it's a lot of fun for me to support people so this change is r0ck and r0ll for me :) Now I will always find a group, like it was back in the day.


However props for taking steps to get the two sides integrated. I am keen to see how the dynamic changes now for sure.

Yes, the LE won't go away so it must be integrated properly. After the LE players had to accept that their belongings are not protected anymore like the vehicles this is a positive point for them.

The logic is that the LE protects from damage being done by other players but it does not make sense to protect them from buffs because buffs don't do any harm. If buffing LEs is not possible the logic behind the LE is flawed.

It's very cool to see that the Volunteers Team does not forget the suggestions that were made. I remember the appropriate thread in the brainport months ago. Thank you again, you guys r0ck.

Faid
04-03-13, 18:45
Un-LE'd people are still able to blow up LE'd peoples vehicles. This is wrong. At least keep it like it is now if you are insistant on doing this, all vehicles can damage other Vehicles regardless of LE status. Purposely giving un-LE'd people the power to destroy LE'd vehicles without any defense for the LE'd vehicle makes no sense at all period.

Are you trying to appease the LE'd communty by making un-LE'd PPU's be able to buff Le'd people? As if this would make up for the Vehicle debacle? I actually like the idea but the vehicle thing needs to be fixed.

The speed nerf is a good thing but it's going to dramatically shift the balance of classes in the game. Tank o cron seems the likely course. We need to balance the classes. Decrease tank damage, combined with the speed nerf spy's will die too fast now.

Thankyou for the trade bug fix lol.

Dribble Joy
04-03-13, 19:44
Ath 0 / Agl 142
Test: Character System: Acceleration 0.719 Speed 0.588 Jump 0.759

Retail: Character System: Acceleration 0.719 Speed 0.683 Jump 0.833

Not based on a combined total then (unless that total is very low).

William Antrim
04-03-13, 19:44
It is not going to nerf le vehicles at all. They can still drive off. With the speed nerf they will be able to get away even faster.

I think weapon balancing should come in its own patch. Nerfing tank damage will only be a band aid solution. It should be more thoroughly tested before anything of that nature takes place.

Faid
04-03-13, 20:09
It distinctly gives an advantage to UN-LE'd Characters. One creed tank can blow up a rhino in less than 1 clip of ammo, thats about 26 seconds. Two creed tanks can do it in half that time, 13 seconds to blow up an LE'd rhino. At least the way it is now you can't easily blow up a rhino with another rhino, it takes longer and there may be some time to shoot back or drive off. I tested this on the TS the other day and it was stupidly easy to destroy LE'd vehicles with UN-LE'd weapons. A quad die's in about 4 seconds. This is certainly going to be a huge problem for any LE'd person driving any vehicle.

Le'd vehicles have no defense, it's just ridiculous to implement this change, it's not justified at all. Anytime you can damage something and it cannot damage you back it's considered an exploit, or so Ive always been told by GM's. What is the reasoning for allowing UN-LE'd characters to destroy LE'd chars vehicles? I get the whole LE'd rhino parked on my loot thing but honestly, you're nerfing the entire Le'd vehicle system for a problem that scarcely exists. This particular change is so counter-productive and backwards I just can understand why they would even try to jutify it.

Gunshifty
04-03-13, 20:10
Un-LE'd people are still able to blow up LE'd peoples vehicles. This is wrong. At least keep it like it is now if you are insistant on doing this, all vehicles can damage other Vehicles regardless of LE status. Purposely giving un-LE'd people the power to destroy LE'd vehicles without any defense for the LE'd vehicle makes no sense at all period.

Are you trying to appease the LE'd communty by making un-LE'd PPU's be able to buff Le'd people? As if this would make up for the Vehicle debacle? I actually like the idea but the vehicle thing needs to be fixed.


I agree with this, I think the Un-LE'd people are still getting screwed here. I feel like the discussion over the new implementation was not looked at or rather not considered. Is it not considered an exploit to be able for someone without an LE to damage an LE'd players vehicle, but not vice versa? Are you (the devs and people in charge of rolling this new vehicle patch) guys trying to force LE'd players out of the game or something? If so, why are you forcing people to play the PvP aspect of the game when there are plenty who enjoy the PvE aspect?

Like I said in a past post, LE'd vehicles should be able to damage LE'd vehicles. Un-LE'd vehicles should be able to damage Un_LE'd vehicles.

Not: UN-LE'd vehicles can damage LE'd vehicles and LE'd people can't do jack shiii because they chose to enjoy the PvE aspect of the game (in which case most MMOs have PvE/PvP aspects). I seriously think the DEV team needs to inquire additional & extensive input from the community about how they feel about this implementation. There is a strong LE'd community that doesn't read the forums and will be getting utterly screwed when they find out that they can't defend their vehicle because their in-game goal is to acquire rares/parts and not go killing other people.

William Antrim
04-03-13, 20:18
If they dont come to the forum to have their say then how can they complain when these changes hit retail. Thats what the forum and test server are there for. If people cant be bothered to test then they should put up with the changes.

13 seconds is a long time to drive off in NC. If my Rhino started taking an ass load of damage I wouldnt hang around on the spot. Sure its not as nice as it used to be but I think this mechanic is well needed. It's not like the LE'd people are short of 200k for a new rhino anyway!


It will curb alot of the behaviour of LE'd people using the LE to hide behind and getting away with blue murder anyway. This is a good thing.

Gunshifty
04-03-13, 20:37
If they dont come to the forum to have their say then how can they complain when these changes hit retail. Thats what the forum and test server are there for. If people cant be bothered to test then they should put up with the changes.

William you're right, if they don't come to the forum (which isn't mandatory), they don't get their say. However, imagine what OOC is going to look like when <insert poor-newbie guy's name who doesn't have a strong barring of the game> gets his vehicle blown up and can't understand why he wasn't able to do anything but "run/drive" away. What this also does is puts a huge dent on the vehicle market, and would then start driving people away from using non-combat/combat vehicles like rhinos, hovertec, trikes, etc (basically anything but a quad/reveler). In light of this, the anti-vehicle rocket launcher would then become popular only to once again become inept since..well.. no one will buy a vehicle unless they're UN-LE'd.

Now William, lets say those people who don't voice their opinions on the forums start voicing their opinions in game.. I'm sure OOC/Help loves hearing people flame the game (which really isn't good for the community).

The point is: take the time to analyze the implementation, gather discussion/insight with the entire community (maybe making some announcement on the launcher so that everyone who launches the game can see what they're going to do to vehicles, clearly stating it in english/german). It's better to take the time to think about this implementation rather than regretting it and losing a chunk of the population because people weren't happy with the changes. People should (and want to) have a say in what their beloved Neocron turns into especially when it's being ran by a great volunteer team.

Kame
04-03-13, 20:41
Do ALL ppu spells work on LEd... As in HAB and DB as well ??

Faid
04-03-13, 20:43
13 seconds is a long time to drive off in NC. If my Rhino started taking an ass load of damage I wouldnt hang around on the spot. Sure its not as nice as it used to be but I think this mechanic is well needed. It's not like the LE'd people are short of 200k for a new rhino anyway!


It will curb alot of the behaviour of LE'd people using the LE to hide behind and getting away with blue murder anyway. This is a good thing.

13 seconds is not enough time to drive off in NC, not with the overpowered damage of the creed and the range it has. So your justification is that LE'd people can afford another rhino after it gets blown up by Un-Le'd griefers?

This wont curb any behaviour but instead it will spawn new griefer behaviour by Un-LE'd people. This is a very bad thing.

Gunshifty
04-03-13, 20:46
Do ALL ppu spells work on LEd... As in HAB and DB as well ??

only one way to find out *points in the direction of test server* lol :D

William Antrim
04-03-13, 21:19
No I think that DB and Antibuff count as Offensive spells so thats not gonna be the same. Just like you cant target them currently.

Faid/Gunshifty

I am not flaming you guys personally. I am playing devils advocate a little perhaps to promote some discussion. The benefits awarded to one side of the game would quite often disturb or weaken the other side.

I just want to see both get equal share.

The cash sink is also attractive. Yeah ok the noobs will not benefit from it but in the long term I do not see this as a bad thing.

SovKhan
04-03-13, 21:45
Why should vehicles be protected just because someone with an LE is driving it?

LE players already have a significant advantage in the (PvE) game, I am all for there being more penalties. We should be encouraging people to play without their LE in not setting up the game to be split between LE players and the rest of the community.

If the risk is to high that you will have your vehicle blown up and you are a LE driving team than you should find other ways to level or take out your chip.

Faid
04-03-13, 21:54
Why should vehicles be protected just because someone with an LE is driving it?

LE players already have a significant advantage in the (PvE) game, I am all for there being more penalties. We should be encouraging people to play without their LE in not setting up the game to be split between LE players and the rest of the community.

If the risk is to high that you will have your vehicle blown up and you are a LE driving team than you should find other ways to level or take out your chip.

This is the sentiment that seems to be driving this part of the patch. The people who just hate Le's and want to ruin the LE runners experience. This will not encourage people to take out their LE's, it will encourage them to not level with vehicles. All it does is take away another avenue for people to level. The entire reason people level with their LE's in is so the un-LE'd people can't interfere with them leveling by killing them. With this patch any UN-LE'd character can destroy any vehicle regardless of the LE status of anyone in the vehicle.

Why can't LE'd characters destroy vehicles regarless of the LE'd status of the people inside it then? This would at least make it somewhat fair, but they can't. You just told the server that it's ok to Grief LE'd people by destroying their vehicles where they have no defence or offense, it makes no sense!

William Antrim
04-03-13, 22:29
Thats a pretty big jump from people who dont like the LE to people who will actively grief le'd players Faid.

Faid
04-03-13, 22:42
Indeed but it certainly will happen. And it seems like this is what the devs want with this change to vehicles. I just think it's going to deter people from playing and that will hurt the population. Rhino leveling is one of the few remaining viable ways of leveling, and this change will 100% screw it up for LE'd people. Not to mention everything else people do with vehicles. LE'd quads will be blown up for fun.

I've asked before, can any Dev give me an answer to this question:

Why is it ok to damage something that can't damage you back? That is the very definition of an exploit. I thought you guys were trying to fix exploits not encourage them.

SovKhan
04-03-13, 23:01
Indeed but it certainly will happen. And it seems like this is what the devs want with this change to vehicles. I just think it's going to deter people from playing and that will hurt the population. Rhino leveling is one of the few remaining viable ways of leveling, and this change will 100% screw it up for LE'd people. Not to mention everything else people do with vehicles. LE'd quads will be blown up for fun.

I've asked before, can any Dev give me an answer to this question:

Why is it ok to damage something that can't damage you back? That is the very definition of an exploit. I thought you guys were trying to fix exploits not encourage them.

Definition of an exploit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploit_(video_gaming)

but in all seriousness I don't see this as a huge deal. PvE balance and leveling needs to be addressed but this change has nothing to do with PvE.

Baldur
04-03-13, 23:08
Please stay on topic (the patchnotes) and avoid any discussions about exploits.

Thanks :)

Faid
04-03-13, 23:11
Baldur,
I just really want to know the reasoning behind this change, can you ask a Dev to post the reason for changing vehicles mechanics so drastically please.

@Sovkhan
This has everything to do with PVE, leveling in a rhino will made pointless now that un-LE'd people can blow up LE'd peoples vehicles. The whole point is that it is drastically unfair to the LE'd people, you may as well just remove the LE all together for all the good this change will do.

William Antrim
04-03-13, 23:47
It wont be pointless and it is hardly unfair. You can make the 200k back from rhinoing in no time at all to replace the rhino with another one if you do lose it. Also you can go to the less well known places and farm there relatively undisturbed. It will teach people to explore more if anything.

Faid
05-03-13, 00:06
I disagree William, you cannot make 200K from rhinoing if your rhino is being destroyed unfairly by un-LE'd people everytime you try to rhino. It's rare to find a leveling spot empty now a days and I don't think it's right to have your only recourse be to go where other people arent.

Anyway, I just wanted to know why it's now ok to shoot at something that can't shoot you back and if this line of reasoning is going to be ok for other aspects of the game. Isn't this one of the reasons turrets are banned?

gstyle40
05-03-13, 00:59
It wont be pointless and it is hardly unfair. You can make the 200k back from rhinoing in no time at all to replace the rhino with another one if you do lose it. Also you can go to the less well known places and farm there relatively undisturbed. It will teach people to explore more if anything.

just to be fair, if u are trying to make money rhinoing.....STOP!!! 3 hours of rhinoing my fav spot made me 57k u get 6k for a grim percy and have to split it with the driver.....plus the cost of rep nanites......so no, u will NOT make 200k in no time leveling in a rhino. bought 100k worth of rep nans just to make 57k lol, thats called a money pit! but that was 15 levels on my spy and about 30 techs.....so in my opinion it was worth it. and with the beam weapons getting attention....yea...by buy rhino :/ ill be using my unle'd tank to level my guys now so i can protect my rhino which will be counter productive each time i have to stop my leveling to defend....i cant wait!

hatmankh
05-03-13, 03:59
I'm with Faid here, just thinking about this vehicle change for a minute, I can't imagine why the dev team want to do this. I mean really the only positive is LE'd drivers can't park over corpses to stop people looting them anymore, well they can but they'll get their rhino blown up while doing it. The negatives are all vehicles except the Quad and Reveler may as well have a un LE'd requirement for what very little LE'd players will still use them after the patch, you fix part of the loot blocking problem (Un LE'd drivers can still block LE'd players from looting) and create an even bigger problem.

Sorry but just saying take your LE out or go hunt somewhere else doesn't say anything in support of this change. Really some people only want this to happen so it removes competition for hunting spots and limits it to just un LE'ds and LE'ds without vehicles, even the solo tanks and spies who use quads will be severely weakened.

Make some non LE'd players happy, piss off everyone else, some even into quitting.

William Antrim
05-03-13, 11:44
Making money Rhinoing is a piece of cake. Yeah sure the actual cash you get isnt uber but then it is not meant to be. However the subsidiary economies will quite aptly support the venture and these are the reason why and how people make so much money in NC.

There is the junk which can be sold (to a barterer or just with their assistance) and the armour parts which can easily net you a good profit (7k again with a good barterer). Sell a couple of unressed as well and that will make the money if it is absolutely necessary. That is - if you are constantly getting harassed by the evils of the non-le'd people.

And yes getting out in the world and driving around looking at and shooting some of the less well travelled areas and mobs in this game was one of the things I had the most fun doing.

I realise you guys disagree and I honestly knew you would. I can accept that and I can see things from your point of view but at the end of the day it is just a game. This is not real life. We are not at war. If people lose a rhino... big deal. Its not like they got ganked. It is just a vehicle. You never know, the revenge emotion they might feel might prompt them to want to take out the le and feel even more immersed in this glorious world we call Neocron.

It might make some people quit yes but it might also bring new benefits to the game. The costs and benefits have to be weighed up and I think that both sides are making some convincing arguments for and against these changes.

I support the changes being made to NC but I also support lively and intelligent discussion. Please can we keep the sweeping generalisations and jumping to huge conclusions out of the thread because none of it has happened yet and it is just opinion.

I often rhino alone currently (dual logged) in spots that I rarely even see another soul. This is during the "Peak" time of day in Europe. I have even done it on a sunday afternoon before (the highest server pops by far) and not seen others. I do not boast about this because I like the fact that I am relatively undisturbed and at times I will drive across several zones happily taking pot shots at the landscape.

The thing is if the vehicles do get blown up a lot then it will encourage players to trade with one another and interact to replace them and even to seek retribution for their loss! This can only be a good thing for the game as FoxDF rightly said recently.

Would you guys prefer it if the cost of the Rhino was halved? What if the cost of the MNPU parts were halved for example? Or decreased by 25% even. Would that be better? It would be easier to make 100k than 200k of course. Would this go some way to softening the blow?

Ivan Eres
05-03-13, 15:05
I was in a cave again today with my PPU on Titan. There was a group of maybe 7 people, and only one was un-LE'd.

I was in the team and getting XP but I could not help most players which is a very bad feeling.

I really cannot wait for this patch to hit retail so that I can support LEs too.

Another positive point about it is: The faster the LE people can level the earlier they will pull the LE out.

Regards

Faid
05-03-13, 17:29
Can a Dev please answer why they think it's a good idea for un-LE'd players to have the ability to destroy LE'd peoples vehicles? I want to know what the reasoning is for this.

Is it because of the LE'd rhino blocking loot? Because if that's it, then this change is a gross overstep in the wrong direction. As William Antrim has pointed out multiple times now, There is no competition when rhinoing, so there's no one there to block your loot anymore. So now that that's cleared up, why would you implement this very bad vehicle change?

Seriously this is the patch discussion thread right? Can a Dev please explain this game changing addition to vehicle mechanics?

Or do the Devs not even read these threads? In which case please let us know so we can stop wasting our time here.

Gunshifty
05-03-13, 17:37
I realise you guys disagree and I honestly knew you would. I can accept that and I can see things from your point of view but at the end of the day it is just a game. This is not real life. We are not at war. If people lose a rhino... big deal. Its not like they got ganked. It is just a vehicle. You never know, the revenge emotion they might feel might prompt them to want to take out the le and feel even more immersed in this glorious world we call Neocron.

It might make some people quit yes but it might also bring new benefits to the game. The costs and benefits have to be weighed up and I think that both sides are making some convincing arguments for and against these changes.


The only thing I disagree with here is the DEV's new vehicle implementation. Don't get me wrong, I think the patch is 80% awesome with the exception of this vehicle concept being changed. I understand at the end of the day it's just a game, it doesn't have real life consequences. But hopefully my posts do bring up ideas in which people tend to agree with, and furthermore, help shape the game we all include as our hobby.

If it makes people quit then why even consider the implementation? There are MANY MANY other ways to bring new benefits to the game, the easiest one I can think of would be to consider putting in new implants/new items/etc.

I still have yet to see why any of these new vehicle changes would benefit the server. I'm trying to see it from your perspective. All this vehicle change does is gives superiority to the Un-LE'd player because they're the ones who can now sit their rhinos on mobs if lets say you're an LE'd person killing those mobs. The LE'd guy won't be able to do anything against that Un-LE'd guy stealing his rares/junk/items. How is that even fair?! William, I'm not blaming you for playing Devil's Advocate here, but I would really really want some DEV input here. All this vehicle implementation is doing is harming the LE'd community, and only benefiting the Un-LE'd players.

If the DEV's team purpose is to make the game feel dangerous then they should re-visit the concept of making Plaza/Via safe zones and making Pepper Park the "dangerous" environment that it's suppose to be. That thread already has a lot of community input in which there is still very little DEV/Support team insight. If this Brainport is here to introduce and discuss new ideas, why is it that we don't at least have a reason behind the vehicle implementation? The whole "the LE protects the runner but doesn't protect his belongings" is not a reason to implement this vehicle patch. All it's implying is "Sorry, but the LE only protects you, but any Un-LE'd person will have the upper-hand in any scenario. The Un-LE'd person will then be able to blow up your rhino (or combat vehicle) and then camp on top of your mob you just killed, and finally, be able to loot YOUR kill that you just worked on. ALL because you decided to keep your LE in."

Trivaldi
05-03-13, 17:42
Faid,

We read every post in these threads for internal discussions and often like to see where the discussion goes before we make any comment, if any is required, which is usually not the case.

Let it be known that we do not need to explain nor clarify decisions made in patches when it comes to game design decisions. However, based on the lengthy discussion in this and other threads we are preparing a statement to cover as many angles as possible regarding this particular change.

It will arrive Soon™. Until that time, we ask for patience and of course further testing of other patch elements.

Cheers,

Gunshifty
05-03-13, 17:45
faid,

we read every post in these threads for internal discussions and often like to see where the discussion goes before we make any comment, if any is required which is usually not the case.

Let it be known that we do not need to explain nor clarify decisions made in patches when it comes to game design decisions. However, based on the lengthy discussion in this and other threads we are preparing a statement to cover as many angles as possible regarding this particular change.

It will arrive soon™. Until that time, we ask for patience and of course further testing of other patch elements.

Cheers,

thank you! <3

Faid
05-03-13, 18:09
Faid,

We read every post in these threads for internal discussions and often like to see where the discussion goes before we make any comment, if any is required, which is usually not the case.

Let it be known that we do not need to explain nor clarify decisions made in patches when it comes to game design decisions. However, based on the lengthy discussion in this and other threads we are preparing a statement to cover as many angles as possible regarding this particular change.

It will arrive Soon™. Until that time, we ask for patience and of course further testing of other patch elements.

Cheers,

I hope that part about you guys not having to explain why you are making a huge change to the game isn't the road you're going to take. With the whole "better communication" thing you guys have been working on lately :) I think you guys are making great progress with the game so far and I appreciate everything everyone over there has done and is doing :)



Thankyou for the response Triv, it sometimes feels like we're talking to a brick wall :p Especially with something as important as this change.

Ivan Eres
05-03-13, 18:09
We are discussing a game design philosophy here.

We need to have certain corner stones for the future design of the game, so that it can evolve.

In the patch notes it was stated that "the LE protects the runner but not his belongings". This is the philospohy behind it.

To me this makes sense.

If we would choose to protect everything a LE'd player owns then we would have to do this:

1.) Protect every stamina booster, every gun, and every piece of armor a LE'd player owns
2.) Protect his appartment from being entered by non LE
3.) Make the LE'd players invisible for non LE players, so that they cannot be moved around, scammed, shot at by copbots and so on
4.) Make trading impossible between LE and non LE players
5.) Make every item that an LE player drops invisible to non LE players

And so on.

This would mean completely separating LE'd players from the non LE.

This is the wrong way for me. Separating the players does not make sense to me.

The players should stay in the same world, and be able to play together.

But if we would choose the philosphy "protect everything for LE'd players" this would be the logical end to it, for me. And I don't like this.

I've been playing without an LE ever since and I've lost a few Rhinos already. OFC it pisses me off. Especially since almost every vet will attack the Rhino on sight.

If they destroy the Rhino there is no punishment for them even if it is an allied vehicle. They can destroy it with every fucking weapon they have, even small fire arms. They can destroy it in 10 seconds with a good weapon, which is a joke.

Yes, these are the problems we really have regarding vehicles, and especially Rhinos, in my opinion.

But these must be changed one by one. I do not think it is the right way to simply protect a vehicle from being attacked at all.

Protecting it completely form damage does not make sense to me regarding the game philosophy, the lore, and for the integration of the LE in the game world.

If I go Rhino'ing myself I am used to always keep looking for other runners in the sector. I always choose sectors where I most likely won't meet other runners. Every fire mob sector is an absolute no-go for me because I have always been attacked by other runners.

Anyway, I think we will find a good way for NC if we keep aiming for the goal to make the game better, instead of making it only good for oneself.

All will be good, soon.

Peace out :-)

nabbl
05-03-13, 18:10
Runspeed-changes are very fine in my opinion. There will need to be some overall adjustments to the weapon damage or aiming as it is currently a bit too easy for high WPL chars to hit other players. On the other hand decent movement becomes even more important.

I would suggest to wait for the players changing their setups away from speed up to resists to determine how these changes influence op fights.

Gunshifty
05-03-13, 18:40
In the patch notes it was stated that "the LE protects the runner but not his belongings". This is the philospohy behind it.

To me this makes sense.


Maybe it took your post to make me realize this Ivan Eres, but the statement "the LE protects the runner but not his belongings" is a contradicting statement. It's like an oxymoron. Think about that statement. What do you think the LE does when an LE'd person dies? It protects them from losing ANY of their belongings. To say the quoted statement above is contradicting the whole entire purpose of the LE.

the 'LE' protects the runner = true
the 'LE' protects the runner's belongings = true
the LE protects the runner but not his belongings = contradicting

In summary, the LE already protects the runner's belongings. It always has. Its why we don't drop belts when we die. With this new vehicle mechanic, it's basically saying: "your vehicle is screwed but it's okay, all your belongings except your vehicles are safe". If you're still not getting it..

The LE protects runners from dropping(losing) ANYTHING THEY OWN. That means if I placed my rare weapon in quickslots 2 through X, the LE protects my belongings because I will never lose that rare weapon.

The quoted statement above is a contradiction because it is saying that the LE'd runner's vehicle is NOT protected from being destroyed or lost, EVEN THOUGH the vehicle belongs to an LE'd character. Hence not protecting his belongings, thus, losing my vehicle.



But if we would choose the philosphy "protect everything for LE'd players" this would be the logical end to it, for me. And I don't like this.


the LE already protects everything for LE'd players. I don't understand why losing a Vehicle to someone who doesn't have an LE in makes any sense at all.



Anyway, I think we will find a good way for NC if we keep aiming for the goal to make the game better, instead of making it only good for oneself.


The only thing this patch/vehicle implementation is doing is making it better for being Un-LE'd. AKA(Also Known As) better for oneself who does not have an LE'd in. If the goal is to make the game better A) don't change the mechanics, leave it the way they are now, or B) Make it fair to both LE'd/Un-LE'd runners to own vehicles that are not Quads/Revelers.

Faid
05-03-13, 19:02
At the end of the day it comes down to the fact that you can now shoot and damage something that cannot shoot or damage you back and that is wrong in any context, no matter how you try to justify it.

r2d22k
05-03-13, 19:12
Maybe it took your post to make me realize this Ivan Eres, but the statement "the LE protects the runner but not his belongings" is a contradicting statement. It's like an oxymoron. Think about that statement. What do you think the LE does when an LE'd person dies? It protects them from losing ANY of their belongings. To say the quoted statement above is contradicting the whole entire purpose of the LE.

the 'LE' protects the runner = true
the 'LE' protects the runner's belongings = true
the LE protects the runner but not his belongings = contradicting


This is an absurd way of discussing things, you are intentionally twisting the devs' words. My opinion: As a dev, I would simply ignore you (however obviously, as Trivaldi stated, they don't, which they definitely deserve a hell lot of respect for), because someone who is intentionally twisting words is not up for discussion in my opinion. Instead he/she just wants to be a "dickhead" who just wants to be in the end the person who is right and only cares about himself/herself. So please read between the lines and think about what the devs really ment there and discuss what they intended to do, not something weird and twisted. In the end make a well layed out proposal, take into account all different possibilities and then discuss. Twisting other people's words will just make them angry.

The point of the above quoted statement from the devs is in my opinion that the law enforcer protects you from being killed and that's it. (Sideremark: I am fine with that statement and since non law enforced players do not drop their whole inventory, law enforced players should neither.) I think what is needed instead of reworking the vehicle ruleset again is a rework of the soullight system. Destroying other people's vehicles should also have a negative impact on your soullight, especially in case those people are allied. The sl impact should maybe be even a little bit worse when destroying vehicles of law enforced players, because they are "under the protection of the ncpd". To make this change hurt there are definitely more changes to the soullight system needed, but in my opinion this would be a good starting point for discussion.

[EDIT @ FAID]
So harassing others without them being able to do something about it is okay then? The problem of vehicles and whom may shot whom is an unsolvable one, because someone will always be upset in the end. Cause if LEd players may shoot back, LEd players may not be punished in the end. Sure their vehicles might get destroyed, but in Neocron only the death is a real punishment.

Faid
05-03-13, 19:29
So you would rather have UN-LE'd people harrassing LE'd people than the other way around? How about we come up with a solution where no harrassment is involved. Maybe make it so you can't steal other peoples loot, it only opens for the person that killed it. Maybe make it so vehicles can't physically park on top of the corpses. There are plenty of ways to do this fairly.

A way to determine if something is fair is to switch the scenario.

What if any LE'd person were able to shoot and destroy any Un-LE'd peoples vehicles with creeds or healing lights and the UN-LE'd werent able to do anything about it? I'd say that would be pretty unfair, as would I'm sure, most everyone. So why would it be ok the other way around?

Trivaldi
05-03-13, 19:38
Until we release further information and clarification about the change surrounding Vehicles and the Law Enforcer, any further posts on the matter will be deleted - without warning - from this thread. In the mean time I suggest you test the other features of this patch and discuss those instead.

Without clarification further discussion about the Law Enforcer's connection to Vehicles is futile.

Thanks,

Ivan Eres
06-03-13, 17:19
I just tested buffing and healing a LE with my non LE PPU on Vedeena and it works like a charm. I also tried DB'ing the LE char and it is not even possible to aim, so that's fine too. Honestly, for a PPU player this is a great game play change. Thx.

Ryan Flint
06-03-13, 20:56
So we tested the speed cap in 4vs4/5vs5 scenarios and it's already 100% better than what we got on the retail server, actually going back to retail afterwards was a pain in the a**.
Please bring the cap asap as more and more people decided not to play until the current situation on titan has been addressed.

Gunshifty
06-03-13, 21:28
Does anyone else think (or want) a character stat reset for when the patch hits to address the changes to setups? I know in previous years there have been times after patches where I would login to some (if not all) of my characters and their points were reset. Maybe it's just me, but with significant gameplay changes to speed & even the whole having Un-LE'd PPUs support LE'd characters, I wouldn't mind a stat reset applied to everyones account.. It would just be nice, but definitely not necessary.

William Antrim
06-03-13, 22:16
The beam of hell and slasher now do comparable damage but the Beam is seriously accurate. I like it a lot.

Tenchiro
07-03-13, 01:27
How's about a fresh copy from retail to test server?

BlueRobot
07-03-13, 02:02
I think the runspeed cap is too low. I used my runspeed setup from before the netcode fix, which is as many runspeed as reasonably possible.
We tested it with 3 people and everyone was able to hit every shot on everyone. Its also not even hard to destroy someones feet now, and if that happens you'd have to be mentally handicapped to not hit him.

The problem might be that in larger fights (OP Fights) if someones feet are destroyed even if you fight against the lowest of the low, he is practically dead. Also if you just shoot someones feet -which is as mentioned really easy- you can easily land 5-7 ionics on him after that, which means death in seconds. New OP setup to abuse probably...

Petalustig
07-03-13, 03:25
I think the runspeed cap is too low. I used my runspeed setup from before the netcode fix, which is as many runspeed as reasonably possible.
We tested it with 3 people and everyone was able to hit every shot on everyone. Its also not even hard to destroy someones feet now, and if that happens you'd have to be mentally handicapped to not hit him.

The problem might be that in larger fights (OP Fights) if someones feet are destroyed even if you fight against the lowest of the low, he is practically dead. Also if you just shoot someones feet -which is as mentioned really easy- you can easily land 5-7 ionics on him after that, which means death in seconds. New OP setup to abuse probably...


+++++
i have test it too its ok to do a runspeed cap but that hard??
i think neocron is a very skill based game but now you dont need any kind of aiming or skill..and if you shoot the feets.. that is like to aim a aggresor captain in the sewer..
(little movie about moveing with destroyed feets) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3h7j4EGi-U

i think tanks get fucked up in op fights .. just go with some spys in op fight... go out of stealth go on 1 target with 2-3 spys and he is insta dead.. than stealth again.. ionic pistol spy will be nice =)
also apus get fucked again with the high speed they was playable to defend a op...

gstyle40
07-03-13, 07:50
ohh well, guess we need con setups now.....the nerve!

nabbl
07-03-13, 12:14
Aber gerade wieder mehr an CON Setups rumzufrickeln, anstatt alles mit Runspeed "tot zu bashen" und auf Artifakte der Interpolation zu hoffen, war das nicht gerade das herausfordernde an Neocron? Neben dem Aim natürlich.

Ich weiß nicht, die meisten reden von "Wir wollen NC1 zurück" und "Speedcap", aber schon geht man die ersten Meter dahin zurück, schmeckt es mit einmal nicht mehr ;)

Das Speedcap macht nun auch wieder Skillpunkte für andere Sachen frei, denn man kann sich noch soviel draufpacken, irgendwann sind eh alle gleich schnell. Die Ausreden wie "Du kannst eh nur warpen, clippen, blah" oder "Du kannst nur was, weil man dich nicht treffen kann" ziehen nicht mehr.

Wie auch immer, das Softcap für den Speed war schon immer geplant, es wurde nun aber eben auch implementiert. Neocron ist kein Unreal mit Speedmutator, dort hast du nur eine Map auf den sich der Server "konzentrieren" muss. Die Neocron Architektur gibt das einfach nicht her, sie ist schlichtweg nicht für diesen UBER-SPEED ausgelegt.

Ich denke es wird so sein, wie wenn die Freundin sich mit einmal komplett die Haare färbt, man braucht erst Zeit sich daran zu gewöhnen ;p

Zoltan hat komplett recht. Das Video von Peter Lustig zeigt, wie es halt mittlerweile nicht mehr geht. Man wird nun leichter getroffen und sollte daher vielleicht auch etwas mehr Resist skillen um das auszugleichen (und brauch nicht mehr zwangsläufig 4 Drogen). Gleichzeitig muss man auch sein eigenes Movement anpassen.

Wisst ihr noch, als man als Tank mit gezogener Waffe so langsam war? Die Tanks hatten damals dann eine ganz andere Art zu moven, eben weil sie leichter zu treffen waren.
Leute wie Moschmongo, Cambridge, Torrez und auch einige der Hoovers konnten das bis zur Perfektion. Denen hast du im eins gegen eins als damals leichter overpowered PE gegenüber gestanden und dich einfach nur aufgeregt, weil sie sich völlig asynchron und unvorhergesehen bewegt hatten. Ducken, springen, Deckung nutzen, Wechsel von links auf rechts, vor und zurück, in den Gegner laufen, kurz die Waffe wegstecken...
Man hat so viele Möglichkeiten um Schüssen auszuweichen, dass man dazu nichtmal unbedingt hohen speed braucht.

Dazu kommen jetzt die Resis. Die Tanks haben hier auf jeden Fall Vorteile. Sie haben einfach eine sehr hohe CON. Aber auch andere Klassen können Resis skillen und Resist Chips verwenden. Dazu gibt es für den PE PSI Schilde (die btw. bis zu 15% resist geben) und für den Spy Naniten.

Klar der APU schaut in die Röhre, aber das hat er auch schon vorher. Dieses Speedcapp heisst jetzt nicht, dass das Balancing stimmt. Es zeigt genauso auf, dass noch viel gemacht werden muss. Ausreisser wie die AK und Dissy müssen angepasst werden, APUs und Melees haben jetzt mehr Probleme.

Aber hier wurde ein richtiger Schritt in die richtige Richtung gemacht.

Petalustig
07-03-13, 13:52
Klar stimmt schon nur für mich ist es persönlich zu langsam aber ich werde mich überraschen lassen :P...
Man könnte ja auch mal Op Fights machen auf dem testserver um es einfach mal zu testen wie es ist.. damit es nicht erst wieder getestet wird wenn er aufgespielt ist...und dann dass geheule wieder groß ist ... :D aber ich glaube da werden sich wohl kaum leute finden~~..

Zoltan wie wärs Gm`s Vs Runner?? :P

da_fu$e
07-03-13, 14:15
Ich Finde es gut, eine CON Skillung ist damit nötig und auch sinnvoll. Es muss der Waffen DMG oder die Resi Auswirkungen noch angepasst werden. Das damit der APU und Melee nun erstmal noch mehr am arsch sind, ist nicht ok, aber ein notwendiges übel. Ich glaube die meisten die NC spielen und jetzt "QQ" machen sind einfach nur von den ganzen Jahren der non Patch Ära verwöhnt. Früher war man auch so "langsam" nur gab es dann noch einen Parashock und der hat dich richtig fest geklebt.

Wie auch immer, der Speed ist so gut. Es fehlt vielleicht noch die Justierung denn man warped immer noch ab und zu ein wenig. Aber lange nicht mehr so unspielbar wie auf dem Retail.

Satan2k2
07-03-13, 14:40
Ja, ich finde auch das es ein schritt in die richtige richtung ist und das die Con Skillung wieder in den vordergrund rücken soll. Aber zu dem Game gehört auch nen bischen Skill :) und daher sollte der Speed nicht so drastisch gesenkt werden, wie er im moment auf dem Testserver ist.

Immerhin sollte immernoch die möglichkeit bestehen, anstatt nen Resist-Setup nen Speed-Setup zu machen, wer es möchte :D

Aber ich lass mich mal überraschen, wie es am ende kommt. Und eigentlich ist alles nur eine Gewöhnungssache.

netster
07-03-13, 14:50
Oh please, dont reset the database so much or is it a trick?

Satan2k2
07-03-13, 14:56
What do you mean?

Dropout
07-03-13, 14:56
[ edited ]

BlueRobot
07-03-13, 15:37
Well, in my opinion the speed is just way too low. No skill needed to hit everything atm.

Gunshifty
07-03-13, 17:20
Does anyone else think (or want) a character stat reset for when the patch hits to address the changes to setups? I know in previous years there have been times after patches where I would login to some (if not all) of my characters and their points were reset. Maybe it's just me, but with significant gameplay changes to speed & even the whole having Un-LE'd PPUs support LE'd characters, I wouldn't mind a stat reset applied to everyones account.. It would just be nice, but definitely not necessary.

For the people saying that the speed nerf is too effective, then people should want he above quoted text. A kind of refresh for their characters, rather than LoMing out precious points.

Pestilence
07-03-13, 20:32
Das damit der APU und Melee nun erstmal noch mehr am arsch sind, ist nicht ok, aber ein notwendiges übel.

Ich bin APU und begrüße das Speedcap ausdrücklich. Es ist ein erster wichtiger Schritt in die richtige Richtung und den Rest bekommt das tolle Dev Team auch noch hin. Thumbs up.

Xiphias
07-03-13, 22:32
[ edited ]

But just again more in CON rumzufrickeln setups, rather than anything with Runspeed "to baSheN dead" and hope for the interpolation artifacts, which was not exactly challenging to Neocron? In addition to the Aim ​​of course.

I do not know most of the talking "We want to back NC1" and of "Speedcap", but it is already the first few meters back then, it tastes no longer even

The Speedcap makes now again free skill points for other things, because you can draufpacken still much sometime eh are all the same speed. The excuses such as, "You can always just warp, clipping, blah" or "You can only be what, because you can not hit you" no longer draw.

Anyway, the Softcap for Speed ​​was always planned, but now it was just implemented. Neocron is not Unreal with Speedmutator, where you only have a map to the "concentrate" the server. Neocron, the architecture is not the simple ago, it is simply not designed for this UBER-SPEED.

I think it will be as if the friend is complete with even dyes his hair, you need to spend time getting used to it; p


Google translate. Works as intended.

Dropout
08-03-13, 00:00
Snip
Haha, I only understood like half of that.. Google translate is horrible :p

On a more relevant note, the speed nerf is way too harsh IMO.
People are just WAY too slow on the testserver. I do not want "warp-speed" like it currently is on retail, but there must be some kind of middleground.

Netphreak
08-03-13, 01:00
Haha, I only understood like half of that.. Google translate is horrible :p

On a more relevant note, the speed nerf is way too harsh IMO.
People are just WAY too slow on the testserver. I do not want "warp-speed" like it currently is on retail, but there must be some kind of middleground.

I've been testing on a PE on the test server (as have quite a few) and the run-speed cap seems to work well.
Even PE's seem a bit more viable, their extra CON points can count for something again.

On a beamweapon note, RoG shots don't seem to be visible but damage does appear to be registering.

Dribble Joy
08-03-13, 01:29
The speed alteration is only harsh if you were previously running extremely high ath/agl values. I still feel faster than in NC1.

Dropout
08-03-13, 03:11
The speed alteration is only harsh if you were previously running extremely high ath/agl values. I still feel faster than in NC1.

I was (And I was before the netcode fix aswell).
Hell my Terra Dev tank had about 15X ATL / 19X AGL.. Loved that character (sadly my Titan tank doenst have capped CON)..
2-3 bursts from a Dissy and he was dead though :p

I loved how fast paced the game was (before the netcode fix, right now, on retail it is a bit over the top), and that it actually were a challenge to aim at people..

Doc Holliday
08-03-13, 08:50
I watched a pe in a duel yesterday. He had the xbow and ionic shotgun pistol. I forget the exact base values he was using but something like 75/100 ath/agi

to say he was doing very well would be an understatement. He used the db sanctum but it was interesting to see if he might actually be able to make a comeback or it was purely the person playing him who overcame the deficiencies of the class.

Netphreak
08-03-13, 13:24
I watched a pe in a duel yesterday. He had the xbow and ionic shotgun pistol. I forget the exact base values he was using but something like 75/100 ath/agi

to say he was doing very well would be an understatement. He used the db sanctum but it was interesting to see if he might actually be able to make a comeback or it was purely the person playing him who overcame the deficiencies of the class.

It could be possible Doc. When I was on the test server, despite some lag spikes it actually felt a lot more like playing my PE in nc1 did. Run-speed was still higher but on the whole it was a 'familiar' feeling, with good longevity. I do have to add I was wearing WoC PA though (so looked like some kind of tron wannabe).
I was rifle specced and testing pvp with people in P2.
(RoG still has issues with shot's not displaying but damage appears to be registering ok, Libra is beyond useless, PainEaser unfortunately doesn't quite do enough damage and TT Epic Laser rifle was actually pretty good. WoC assault rifles 98 and 102[?] were ok)

As far as I can tell however, pistol PE's are currently in a better position, Slasher and Beam of Hell are working well.

Kame
09-03-13, 20:29
I found that the malus for having broken legs is too crippling.
It's effectiveness could be reduced from about 1/3.

Netphreak
09-03-13, 21:36
I found that the malus for having broken legs is too crippling.
It's effectiveness could be reduced from about 1/3.

Yeah, I also thought the broken leg malus seems too much now.

Petalustig
10-03-13, 12:59
I watched a pe in a duel yesterday. He had the xbow and ionic shotgun pistol. I forget the exact base values he was using but something like 75/100 ath/agi

to say he was doing very well would be an understatement. He used the db sanctum but it was interesting to see if he might actually be able to make a comeback or it was purely the person playing him who overcame the deficiencies of the class.


I Think that was my fault :P..
Playing Woc pe With xbow 2x ionic pistols and db sanctum but i didnt know if the db sanctum work well :D ... Base skills 70 Atl 90 Agl ..
Woc Pe is one of my favorit classes but you just need to make woc and this takes years... in 1vs1 or something is he really fine but in op fight you can play a spy ~~... make a little pvp movie from Woc pe ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kz_KrWDkGb0&feature=youtube_gdata

this from kame will be nice:

I found that the malus for having broken legs is too crippling.
It's effectiveness could be reduced from about 1/3.

hatmankh
10-03-13, 13:27
Really, I think even this huge speed nerf won't be enough to make people spend heavily in resists again, for that you'd need to actually buff resists or balance the very high damage guns, that kill people in seconds of constant hits, high resist setup or not.

I just wish we could have all playstyles powerful in their own way, now we're just gonna have everyone using the same build, I know there was some of that before too but with this very hard runspeed cap, we're all gonna be even more similar in our setups.

Faid
14-03-13, 02:29
Faid,

We read every post in these threads for internal discussions and often like to see where the discussion goes before we make any comment, if any is required, which is usually not the case.

Let it be known that we do not need to explain nor clarify decisions made in patches when it comes to game design decisions. However, based on the lengthy discussion in this and other threads we are preparing a statement to cover as many angles as possible regarding this particular change.

It will arrive Soon™. Until that time, we ask for patience and of course further testing of other patch elements.

Cheers,

Is there any ETA on the actual explanation of the vehicle change yet? From what Moikoi said in another post The Dev's havent taken anything said here into any consideration and they are simply moving forward without giving an explanation as to why they are changing vehicles.

So I'll ask again, is it pointless for us to post here? And are we just wasting our time?

Netphreak
14-03-13, 17:21
I Think that was my fault :P..
Playing Woc pe With xbow 2x ionic pistols and db sanctum but i didnt know if the db sanctum work well :D ... Base skills 70 Atl 90 Agl ..
Woc Pe is one of my favorit classes but you just need to make woc and this takes years... in 1vs1 or something is he really fine but in op fight you can play a spy ~~... make a little pvp movie from Woc pe ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kz_KrWDkGb0&feature=youtube_gdata

this from kame will be nice:

I found that the malus for having broken legs is too crippling.
It's effectiveness could be reduced from about 1/3.

Nice video. Reminds me of how PE's used to be pre-2.2.
Couple of questions:
Were those all self buffs?
And was were 2 or 3 drugs being used?

William Antrim
14-03-13, 19:56
3 drugs net.

RogerRamjet
14-03-13, 19:59
Run speed looks much better.

Petalustig
18-03-13, 11:53
Nice video. Reminds me of how PE's used to be pre-2.2.
Couple of questions:
Were those all self buffs?
And was were 2 or 3 drugs being used?

The first time i use para x and redflash for more speed/hlt when they running + destrox and x beast to clear the drugflash ^^

yes all self buffs pistol 1 and the noob shields + db sanctum

Satan2k2
18-03-13, 15:34
Yeah I was live at the scene and was down realy fast. I don't know how you do it, but when I aim with xbow (got you perfectly in aim, circle was closed) all the time it was a miss ^^ Is it because of the flashlight?

Another thing: the crippling is very hard. After 2 hits your feets are down to nothing.

nabbl
18-03-13, 16:03
Another thing: the crippling is very hard. After 2 hits your feets are down to nothing.

Yes... they have to change that.