View Full Version : Wisdom of Ceres Spell for APU and Re-implementation of Holy Para
WuTangClan
20-02-13, 22:18
I wanted to see what the community thinks about this idea for new APU Spell:
WOC Viable on Monks
In order to make APUs playable and restore a little more balance to the game: I suggest making a Regents Run
which delivers a rare Toxic Beam that does stack poison damage for apus.
APUs viable at outpost wars
Re-implement Holy para that freezes and slows like it did in nc1.
Now hear me out. It should cast like anti buff, use large amount of mana and cast very slowly.
This would make the antishock drugs useful again and also make people think twice before having a
Mach-10 speed-10 drug setup.
Ladies and gentlemen, start your flaming.
Arista Barret
20-02-13, 22:23
Good ideas for new content. I am not in favour of changing drug setups without full discussion of the implications.
APUs viable at outpost wars
Re-implement Holy para that freezes and slows like it did in nc1.
Now hear me out. It should cast like anti buff, use large amount of mana and cast very slowly.
This would make the antishock drugs useful again and also make people think twice before having a
Mach-10 speed-10 drug setup.
So you want the ONLY good thing that 2.2 did, back? Are you fucking kidding me..?
WuTangClan
20-02-13, 22:42
So you want the ONLY good thing that 2.2 did, back? Are you fucking kidding me..?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKjxFJfcrcA
*idiotic video reply*
Well thought out answer......
Im guessing that you never followed the forum much (I can see that from your forum post count, so dont bother answering that..)?
And Im guessing that you didnt PVP much either back then? At least not in opfights...
Para was the one and only reason why there were so many people just running around looking for eachother (to fight obviously), instead of opfighting..
*sigh* hope i kept from using personal assaults, eventhough it was very hard in this case..
holy para seems nice to get it back... oh Holy pestilence should be remade as it was b4 poison+ fire dmg with stacking.
re-implementation of the ppu spells SD (Shield and Deflector) from nc 1 up to 2.1.
re-implement the anti buff spells to apu.
re-implementation of the ppu spells SD (Shield and Deflector) from nc 1 up to 2.1.
re-implement the anti buff spells to apu.
Why would you want to dumb down PPU's again? isnt 3 different shields better than just 2?
Anti-buffs to APU's I can agree on though.
I wont comment on para, since my last reply made my opinion pretty clear on the subject.
And I cant remember how Holy Pest were back then.
WuTangClan
20-02-13, 22:58
Well thought out answer......
Im guessing that you never followed the forum much (I can see that from your forum post count, so dont bother answering that..)?
And Im guessing that you didnt PVP much either back then? At least not in opfights...
Para was the one and only reason why there were so many people just running around looking for eachother (to fight obviously), instead of opfighting..
*sigh* hope i kept from using personal assaults, eventhough it was very hard in this case..
I have been op fighting since NC1 and dont do very much PVE or tradeskill, only pvp, always a lurker on the forums not much of a poster.
I know, everyone haded Para and there was a cult following to get rid of it but with peoples super fast, super drugged setup, having to pop an anti para drug would throw a twist in it. PVP is too easy atm.
holy para seems nice to get it back... oh Holy pestilence should be remade as it was b4 poison+ fire dmg with stacking.
re-implementation of the ppu spells SD (Shield and Deflector) from nc 1 up to 2.1.
re-implement the anti buff spells to apu.
Agreed. It's really dumb that apu spells like toxic/fire don't put DOTs on anything anymore. I don't even like to play an apu but I'd like to see them be useful again, right now fights are just spies/tanks with ppu support. Hopefully some balance changes include stuff for apu's and pe's.
I have been op fighting since NC1 and dont do very much PVE or tradeskill, only pvp, always a lurker on the forums not much of a poster.
I know, everyone haded Para and there was a cult following to get rid of it but with peoples super fast, super drugged setup, having to pop an anti para drug would throw a twist in it. PVP is too easy atm.
A better solution to the speed "problem" is a soft-cap on speed.. Along with some balancing obviously. One of the most hated things in NC history is NOT the solution.
Doc Holliday
21-02-13, 06:42
Woc is supposed to be modern day (like now. 2013) weapons and stuff. I dont see how a poison beam would work.
I liked the days before woc. I think its flawed as a concept because it ignored wizards. sorry. i mean apus.
right. i'd rather have WOC removed, or weakened. WOC trashed to combat balance for NC, so we rather shouldnt put in more of that stuff.
para? you must be kidding. if we bring back para/freeze, all of NCs PvP comunity will instantly get frustrated and quit (my guess).
right. i'd rather have WOC removed, or weakened. WOC trashed to combat balance for NC, so we rather shouldnt put in more of that stuff.
para? you must be kidding. if we bring back para/freeze, all of NCs PvP comunity will instantly get frustrated and quit (my guess).
Remove WoC, keep the WoC items.
Mentioning balancing is kinda obsolute as we come to that at some point in the future.
William Antrim
21-02-13, 14:23
Woc for a monk should be a religious relic of some sort. It would have to give benefits to defence/armour of some sort. It wouldn't fit into the woc theme in any other way.
Parashock. I'm with walker. It's shit and should never come back. I'd rather people were too fast than that.
If PvP is so easy right now what do you want to make it even more gankable for? Currently people can either fight back or run away. With parashock all they do is die. It's a gank tool not a PvP weapon.
there are enough tools for removing a para shock, just most guys are too lazy.
Doc Holliday
21-02-13, 14:53
right. i'd rather have WOC removed, or weakened. WOC trashed to combat balance for NC, so we rather shouldnt put in more of that stuff.
para? you must be kidding. if we bring back para/freeze, all of NCs PvP comunity will instantly get frustrated and quit (my guess).
totally agree. Woc is what keeps the LE in (ooops. dangerous words) but i do think its a non essential grind factor that needs to be flattened to be inline with the highest rare weapons. It should have always been a status symbol with only the PAs offering something more than what the regular armours do but overall the weapons should be similar in ability to the top end rare weapons.
At the end of the day centuries old tech should not be more powerful than laser or plasma tech. therefore it was a shit idea in the first place.
ps who ever said bring para needs to be taken out behind the tool shed and shot.
ps who ever said bring para needs to be taken out behind the tool shed and shot.
:D
And yeah I hate that I have to grind for a month just to be able to use the weapon, that I want to use (fast freq, pretty low dex req and OK'ish damage - S.W.A.T Assault Rifle).
I wont say its a bad idea to reimplement parashock, but if you take a look to why it is nessesary, it might be the wrong idea to fix the speed problem. A speedcap would be better.
There is also alot of balancing to be done with the woc items i guess. I think there are less APU´s in opfight because they are not realy useful at this time. They take to much damage, the gameplay feels poor because of casting a spell all 5 second etc.
The only thing a APU is strong in atm is pursue speed skilled charakter "clipping" around objects or doing the same but be able to deal dmg while doing it.
DeathCultLegion
22-02-13, 18:39
Hmm...so why do all people here assume that a Slow-Spell is near-Death-Gank-Tool for Monks?
How about we change the Holy paralysis to a shorter Effect and much more effective approach of a debuff.
it cuts your Agility/ATL to 3/5 of the current skill-points so you will be a bit slower and cant jump that high anymore but you would n be a sitting duck. I think the main-problem of PvP Fights with a PPU and a DMG-Dealer against a another person is (everyone runs away - otherwise he's dumb). OP-Fights would be much more Quicker and more tactical than a bunch of guys running in and out of fight and try to sync between 2 zones to avoid death.
a softcap runspeed is the logical consequence of this. The effect of more skillpoints decrease with the time (much similar to a main-weapon-skill). That would prevent warp-like spys and PE's that are impossible to aim.
If you want to keep your runspeed at the actual speed -> stunspell - the spell will freeze you a very short amount of time instead of slowing you down - you cant move for 1-1.5 Seconds if it hits.
How about a Slow-Barrel that slows everyone in a certain area down to a fair runspeed.
how could this be abused: These Effects can only happen once every 10-30 Seconds or so - so even if 3 PPU's try to permantly freeze you, its not effective.
I think the main-problem of PvP Fights with a PPU and a DMG-Dealer against a another person is (everyone runs away - otherwise he's dumb).
Really? I usually just kill the damage dealer, then the PPU.. If theres only one damage dealer, thats not hard to do.. It would however be close to impossible to do, with para back..
WuTangClan
23-02-13, 15:47
As I said before, I think adding some form of para back for APUs that would take near entire mana pool and very long time to cast would add a new element to the game and make APUs useful. This would also throw a loop to those who use 5 drug setups at all times to gain almost unhittable run speed because they would have to factor in antishock drugs into their setup.
It is NOT the way to balance the current speed "issues"!
With a speed SOFT-cap, there wouldnt be these problems anymore, and para would again be used to gank people (without them having a chance to fight back).
Pestilence
23-02-13, 19:06
right. i'd rather have WOC removed, or weakened. WOC trashed to combat balance for NC, so we rather shouldnt put in more of that stuff.
This. WoC fucked things even more up. Neocron leveling was always stupid grinding, but WoC made it ridiculous. Leave WoC in for people who like to do more of the stupid grinding, but only give items, that are visibly special, but not essential for playing the game.
Praetorian
24-02-13, 08:14
No to reimplementing parashock. I dont understand why people need to dumb down PvP for those that cant aim. But i guess giving it to an APU that dont have to close their reticle in the first place is a sound idea. Or maybe not.
No to remove WoC. It (currently) takes a spy LESS than 1 week of droning to overcap 100m for WoC 1. The only exception is the PE (which could do with a smaller req). So there is no "stupid grinding". If you want the good stuff (like rare weapons as well), you have to put an effort into it. I really dont see a problem with that. Oh and in before "im rifling" well if you want to level, you use AoE and the spy only have drones for that.
Pestilence
24-02-13, 14:02
It's no stupid grinding, killing the same Mobs over and over again? So what is it then? It's no special achievement, it's just....well....stupid grinding?
Doc Holliday
24-02-13, 16:54
There used to be a para barrel at one stage. Seriously. Don't bring any of it back.
Praetorian
24-02-13, 17:21
It's no stupid grinding, killing the same Mobs over and over again? So what is it then? It's no special achievement, it's just....well....stupid grinding?
So what? You want 10 NPCs in plaza 1 giving out 5 slot rares because, you know, its just stupid grinding getting those too? Sorry if that was abit sarcastic, but if you want to see stupid grinding check out how you get legendaries (or whatever its called) in guild wars 2.
I'm also in the camp that thinks that WoC needs some changes
for me WoC items should be TL 100 epic items that cant drop and repair to full with their damaged lowered to fit the new TL.
The reason I suggest this is due to a quest item being (sometimes) BIS over a rare which has random stats slots etc and are much harder to farm. I have no problem with a toxic beam being added to the WoC pool however, It can easily be made to fit the lore perhaps putting a biohazard dot on.
Now as for Para, I think its obvious it needs some changes im completely for a revamp to para rather than some huge speed nerf imposed on everyone instead. HOWEVER i think that Para should not glue people like it used to, I have made the suggestion before that it should be something like 25% slow for APU 20% slow for HC freeze, 17.5% slow for rifle and 15% slow for pistol freeze. That way freeze weapons suddenly become viable again and apu's have more of a use.
Antibuff needs to remain ppu due to the way that also like how ppus can debuff themselfs, it's an important mechanic in making sure that you only fire it when you are sure, another good thing is it pretty much wipes the ppus psi pool which can be pretty dangerous if they are counter debuffed without noticing. All in all its good how it is, it makes interesting play.
Increase APU cast rate by 15-20% and put para in as I suggested and they will be well on the way to being fixed, they can already more reliably land hits than any other class in the game due to their reticule not affecting their aim at all.
edit: Sorry for long post I didn't mean to waffle
Pestilence
24-02-13, 20:20
So what? You want 10 NPCs in plaza 1 giving out 5 slot rares because, you know, its just stupid grinding getting those too? Sorry if that was abit sarcastic, but if you want to see stupid grinding check out how you get legendaries (or whatever its called) in guild wars 2.
Other games are shit. So leave leveling in NC shit, too. Good argument. And noboby wants NPCs giving out rares. I see, you don't even want to discuss. Since there is only the possibility of stupid grinding and giving out 5 slot rares by npcs. Thank god you enlighted me.
For me it's not fun, but neccessary how to max your char. But I don't need MORE of it because of WoC. Leave it for people who want to do more grinding, but make WoC Items nice to have instead of must have. For Example, the AK could be a Pain Easer with different skin. PA is a PA with different skin. People have something to showcase, but that's it. This is how WoC should have been in MY opinion (there are others).
Praetorian
24-02-13, 20:58
Other games are shit. So leave leveling in NC shit, too. Good argument. And noboby wants NPCs giving out rares. I see, you don't even want to discuss. Since there is only the possibility of stupid grinding and giving out 5 slot rares by npcs. Thank god you enlighted me.
If you want games that give instant gratification they are out there. Like atomic bomberman.
You are complaining about grinding LESS THAN A WEEK to be WoC'ed. I was exaggerating in my previous post because i was literally dumbstruck by your complaints about grinding XP in a MMORPG to get to end level and to get the best items. This isnt "shit", its called having to work for it. And no it shouldnt be made easier just because people complain about how tough it is to spend less than a week to get WoC 1.
Im surprised you arent complaining about getting the (needed) rares for say a tank or ppu which takes LONGER than grinding to WoC. MUCH MUCH longer - especially considering there seems to be a lower drop rate on certain techs.
As for your idea of what WoC should be i really disagree. We already have trophies to farm for an example. In my oppinion we dont need further "showcase" items.
instead of Parashock, how about some kind of spell that is some kind of 'decay' or subskills, like a decay of WPL, RC, PC, HC, APU and PPU.
Instead of a complete disability to function, how about a somewhat inconvenience of not being able to hit as hard.
Just throwing it out there ...
instead of Parashock, how about some kind of spell that is some kind of 'decay' or subskills, like a decay of WPL, RC, PC, HC, APU and PPU.
Instead of a complete disability to function, how about a somewhat inconvenience of not being able to hit as hard.
Just throwing it out there ...
Hmm keep WEP out of it, and its actually not a bad idea.
It should be removable though (by PPU if it was to make sence). And it shouldnt last very long.
Pestilence
25-02-13, 00:31
If you want games that give instant gratification they are out there. Like atomic bomberman.
The only thing I see is your disability to discuss a topic without some trolling. What are you doing in brainport, when you have no intention at all to discuss something with, lets say, some manners? Therefore I won't even bother to argument with you any further (but thanks for the fish), but I'd love to read more opinions on the topic. Hope to see some more constructive ideas, like some others in this Thread.
Praetorian
25-02-13, 00:44
The only thing I see is your disability to discuss a topic without some trolling. What are you doing in brainport, when you have no intention at all to discuss something with, lets say, some manners? Therefore I won't even bother to argument with you any further (but thanks for the fish), but I'd love to read more opinions on the topic. Hope to see some more constructive ideas, like some others in this Thread.
Are you calling you complaning about a non-issue constructive or even a discussion? Yeah im all for reading some constructive ideas, too bad you basically didnt have any.
What you were trying to bring across in here was that it was a TERRIBLE GRIND to get WoC, which simply isnt true. So yes i felt compelled to bring some facts on the table. If you want, as i mentioned earlier, "instant gratification" you are playing the wrong type of game. The essence of MMORPGs are apparantly not for you - the progress and work to get to endgame content and endgame gear/weapons. (which in turn makes you feel like you achieve something, because it isnt just handed to you etc you know what i mean - and so the wheel turns and wow gets its 900th expansion etc to keep people grinding but you dont get that in NC, thank god and still you complain)
Now move on please.
PS: Dont be hating on atomic bomberman, its a great game!
Prae i'm not sure how you can call it dumbing down pvp with parashock it is rediculous the run speeds at the moment, I mean i'm not saying parashock is the answer at all but its 1 of a few possible solutions to the current problem
WuTangClan
27-02-13, 17:32
Not only are run speeds crazy but this new "net code" clip prevention made just about everyone warp around on my screen with very very unnatrual movements. Does this happen to everyone else?
Not only are run speeds crazy but this new "net code" clip prevention made just about everyone warp around on my screen with very very unnatrual movements. Does this happen to everyone else?
huge improvement for me, so no.
As for para, my opinion is unchanged from my above post. I dislike the idea of a skill that causes decay, not due to the fact that it wouldn't be useful or balanced but due to the fact that The UI wouldn't be able to display the information for you to be able to deal with the debuff, also if you add a debuff spell that hits agil/ath, spys and monks will be hit really hard and tanks and PE's to a lesser exent as they can get a more balanced Agil/ath con build.
so in terms of balance some kind of revamp to para I think is really the best solution I have heard right now without taking peoples freedom to build speed cons away. Obviously having it root like it used to would be rediculous, I cant see why some people can't get over the past and look to what would actually improve the future of the game
WuTangClan
27-02-13, 18:41
huge improvement for me, so no.
As for para, my opinion is unchanged from my above post. I dislike the idea of a skill that causes decay, not due to the fact that it wouldn't be useful or balanced but due to the fact that The UI wouldn't be able to display the information for you to be able to deal with the debuff, also if you add a debuff spell that hits agil/ath, spys and monks will be hit really hard and tanks and PE's to a lesser exent as they can get a more balanced Agil/ath con build.
so in terms of balance some kind of revamp to para I think is really the best solution I have heard right now without taking peoples freedom to build speed cons away. Obviously having it root like it used to would be rediculous, I cant see why some people can't get over the past and look to what would actually improve the future of the game
You are the only one out of 50+ individuals that play PVP in this game that says the new netcode is an improvement. Do you PVP in this game? If so what are your characters? if not then..
You are the only one out of 50+ individuals that play PVP in this game that says the new netcode is an improvement. Do you PVP in this game? If so what are your characters? if not then..
I have only done P2 pvp since the netcode update. And I definitely see it as an improvement.
You actually move as you should do now..
But as I said, I have only done P2, so no opfights.. If it is different in opfights, just ignore me :p
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.