View Full Version : Safe zones for LE runners
Arista Barret
20-02-13, 10:49
Currently every single zone on the server is a safe zone for the LE players. Id like to see lists of zones that SHOULD be ruled out as LE safe zones. Example
1.MC5
2.DoY Tunnels
3.Ceres Labs
4.Pepper Park
5.All OutPost sectors
6.Gaia Mine
7.Dome of York
Lets keep this quick and simple. LISTS ONLY-law enforcer should NOT work in please.
NO FLAMING
Currently every single zone on the server is a safe zone for the LE players. Id like to see lists of zones that SHOULD be ruled out as LE safe zones. Example
1.MC5
2.DoY Tunnels
3.Ceres Labs
4.Pepper Park
5.All OutPost sectors
6.Gaia Mine
7.Dome of York
Lets keep this quick and simple. LISTS ONLY-law enforcer should NOT work in please.
NO FLAMING
Proposal: All sectors with exception of Plaza 1.
Alternative: Concentrate LE Runners in "camps for contration" where they could useful things but which are separated by fences/walls from the rest of the sector. They should be safe there and cannot block GRs or corpses or exploit anything.
Reed
i totally refuse this proposition, i understand your point of view but i can't accept this simply just you want a LE "removal" from the game. So basically say that after you reach the max lvl with noob areas within the city they would have to remove their LE so they could go lvl in CRP, MB, OP zones, DoY and etc? well i can think of a bigger massive head ache that would cause like high lvl player non-LE PKing low lvl who would adventure in those zones, not such a fan of this. So far from what i've read of your posts, @ Arista, is that you kinda only complain about a shit load of stuff. many ppl here love PvE, others love PvP and ofc there are ppl who are douchebags. I've seen many high lvl douchebags ruin my lvling in TG cave saying that that particular cave was theirs because it had a queen, mean while they started to steal my mobs which were a bit damaged (low lvl APU sucks) . wow what an argument, right? plus they blocked the cave from resetting. what i did was simple loged into my non le APU with holy enerny barrel and barreled them... they died and i relogged so i could continu lvling b4 they came. so stop complaining about this or that and deal with it.
of course this thread is another attempt to restart the long-dead LE-discussion. i wish this guy would stop carebearing about other people with other styles of playing.
Again with the crusade to exclude LE and PvE players. All these threads have the same purpose just with different titles.
Please dev's, give this guy everything he wants. Bring back Neptune and place him and his friends there. I keep getting told Neptune was a fail and didn't work. Well I can tell you, it wasn't because of us "carebears". But let Pinky run the server, he seems to know best, I would be more than happy to be separated from him.
I would agree on MC5, DoY Tunnels and Ceres Labs. Those should all be unLE'd only.
These Places are where you get high-end loot and therefore should be fought over. I'll even agree on Dome of York actually.
Pepper Park
Why? I know it SHOULD be the main PVP sector (outside of OPs obviously). But that doenst make it right to FORCE ganking on LE'd people. BTW, most Jones mission-lines has at least one mission somewhere in PP.. Horrible idea mate.
All OutPost sectors
So you want to gank people traveling to MB/TH? I do not mind people being able to level in Peace. People does need techs to be able to really defend themselves aswell btw..
Gaia Mine
Why? I dont see the point?
Just because YOU are done leveling/farming, doenst mean that everyone should be forced into PVP, before they are ready..
If you cannot tolerate other people's play styles don't expect them to tolerate yours.
the real problem is that everybody can have a LE char for farming.
1) LE chars shouldn't be able to loot any rare item, which include
-Rare parts ( wanna farm rares? go with your not LE char, and risk to get any )
-Woc Disks ( same as before )
-Ultima and Eyes ( same as before ).
-Mc5 (same as before )
2) Stats cap ( reaching /50 should block your exp till LE is put out )
-NB: also prevent you from loming, and cheating trying to cap a specific stat
3) Safe Zones would be a problem ( harder to set up ), and with a drop table restriction and a stats cap, should not be needed.
I didn't see so many LE while both on uranus and terra.
And this is a fuckin MMOFPS.
the real problem is that everybody can have a LE char for farming.
1) LE chars shouldn't be able to loot any rare item, which include
-Rare parts ( wanna farm rares? go with your not LE char, and risk to get any )
-Woc Disks ( same as before )
-Ultima and Eyes ( same as before ).
-Mc5 (same as before )
2) Stats cap ( reaching /50 should block your exp till LE is put out )
-NB: also prevent you from loming, and cheating trying to cap a specific stat
3) Safe Zones would be a problem ( harder to set up ), and with a drop table restriction and a stats cap, should not be needed.
I didn't see so many LE while both on uranus and terra.
And this is a fuckin MMOFPS.
If a LE'd char cannot loot anything worth to loot, for what this char is good ? Only levelling up to Level X ?
Astonishing that this argument = boring levelling without any profit else than XP = comes from a party of players which always complaining about boring leveling.
I have leveled with fun and senseful loot (= parts) lot of support chars like Barter, Resser or Constructor via driving/repping a Rhino. Ia have even maxed Dex+INT for my APU/PPU same manner. I found this way of levelling very funny and it brings rare parts.
You are sure that you make proposals here which do not make lot of players (which are possibly not reading these awful threads here) very angry ? Reducing and runinig these level methods is what a majority of players want ? Sorry if i highly doubt it.
Reed
LE was born to prevent pking on low lvl, and still that's what's worth for.
Ready to join the real neocron? Remove LE and continue your character.
You could have a point if
-Entire account with or without LE
-No multiple accounts permitted
But that's not our situation.
Why a low lvl should not be able to see the entire world and die by his own while trying to discovery ( or kill ) anything?
It brings no problems ( cause XP cap and Impossibility to get drops ).
LE actually is a problem ( also for finding a party, cause everybody has LE on ), but removing zones from LE chars is not the answer.
i'm pretty sure that with a stat cap and no chance to get rares we'll be back to Neocron immediatly.
i'm pretty sure that with a stat cap and no chance to get rares we'll be back to Neocron immediatly.
And make NC Loose 30-50% of its population..
I wouldn't play the game you describe. It's just not something fun for me.
cause many people play nc cause his fabulous pve.
Dropout, pls.
cause many people play nc cause his fabulous pve.
Dropout, pls.
Whether you like it or not, there IS quite a lot of people playing NC for PVE/RP/The tradeskilling system.
I am not one of them, but I do have respect for other peoples playstyle.. Its something that comes with age I guess..
LE was born to prevent pking on low lvl, and still that's what's worth for.
Ready to join the real neocron? Remove LE and continue your character.
You could have a point if
-Entire account with or without LE
-No multiple accounts permitted
But that's not our situation.
Why a low lvl should not be able to see the entire world and die by his own while trying to discovery ( or kill ) anything?
It brings no problems ( cause XP cap and Impossibility to get drops ).
LE actually is a problem ( also for finding a party, cause everybody has LE on ), but removing zones from LE chars is not the answer.
i'm pretty sure that with a stat cap and no chance to get rares we'll be back to Neocron immediatly.
That's not exactly my point, because after levelling im may have 7 chars of 8 unLE'd (like i did on Mars).
I believe, that:
- pressing people to remove the LE
- forbid content for LE
- forbid zones for LE
- forbid hunting & collecting rare parts for LE
WILL lead to a monochrome NC with only one player type left and - much more important - with big loss of players.
And after all these threads i have still problems to see the reasons to make this changes.
Reed
I'm not saiyng what people do or should do, but is hard to think PVE/RP/TRADE guys re like 50% of nc population :D
I like the tradeskill, nc lore and much more, but also is true that new LE brings many problems.
btw a gamemaster should tell us which is difficult: Set a location block for LE dudes or what else.
Read this below and keep stating that the LE'd player is a problem for the game. Whether it's true or not, everbody has seen something this way, too. I had similar situation with another well known "friendly" clan.
As a reward for such behaviour LE'd players should punished or have 50% of content/ world cutoff ?
The impudence with what methods this is deduced is remarkable.
As said before: let people choose their playstile. This will lead to maximal population and success of the game. Gank those who like it, dueling with those who like it and let other player go collecting/ farming.
If somebody breach the rules of content report him.
Reed
Original from Faid from here:
http://forum.neocron-game.com/showthread.php?147521-Make-ur-own-mind
Because I was one of the LE'd people there Ghostly.
Let me tell you what really happened.
There were 3 of us there originally, APU Tank and PPU. we had just cleared the first room with the proto's in it. Clan RED shows up with 5 people, hacks our prototypes then tells us that it was now their cave and that we must leave. To witch I replied no, we are leveling here. Then they go off and just kill the other 4 prototypes in the other room. After they only killed the proto's they demand that we reset so they can just farm the prototypes. To witch I replied no we are leveling. So we continue to level killing the mobs gaining XP like any normal leveling team would do. We suggested they goto another cave because we were there first. They still demanded that we leave.
Then Naim here, tells me that he has contacted his friend Hoder and that he will be here in a minute to presumably kick us out of the cave that we were leveling in. I said ok, I'd love to talk to Hoder about why a leveling team killing mobs would have to leave a cave simply because some other team wants to only kill proto's. Needless to say Hoder never showed up and we continued to level peacefully. When the entire level was clear we went to reset and low and behold 2 guys from Clan RED we stood AFK in the cave entrance Blocking the reset. Falk Keegan and Chucky.
So the irony here is that it was actually the UnLE'd clan RED members who were blocking the cave reset. Whats even more funny is that we probably would have given them the cave if they werent such dueschbags to us when they first got there.
Later that night we were out at MC5 and TGM showed up with a full team, they were civil and not dueschbags so we left so they could have the place to themselves. The LE isn't the problem in this game it's the dueschbag people, like Danae said, try to not be one.
JoshCooper
20-02-13, 13:55
I think some people are forgetting that this is a relatively new server and not everyone has come across with clans.
There are old faces returning and brand new runners who will take longer to get a point they feel they can take their LE out.
Trying to get rares while only playing a couple of hours here and there, along with parts for the "popular/good" weps being even harder to come by due to everyone wanting them.
it's quite interesting to see, that this very same discussion also appears on other games with pve/pvp elements: One side want's to overrule the other, and hates the style of playing the other had choosen.
I remember the old Neocron:PVP-Server, which was set up by ReaKKtor on high demand by the community. It got a big rush on start, and then went dead very soon. That experiment failed horribly. The mass has spoken.
Anyway: As we are discussing an alternative, i suggest a system like that one of an also 10 years old game. I'll transcribe it for Neocron:
----------------
There is no LE anymore.
Let all appartements and city buildings be savezones. You can't PvP there. Period.
If you leave an appartement/inner city building, you automatically consent to PvP.
Inner City Zones are watched by NCPD. You may take your weapon at any time and shot on anyone, but after you begin shooting, you WILL INEVITABLY BE EXECUTED by NCPD with Soullight loss.
The more away you are from the inner city, the longer it will take for NCPD, to catch you, but YOU WILL BE EXECUTED. No evade possible.
If you are in the outer Zone, only the entraces/exits are watched by NCPD. You may evade the execution there by getting away from the entrances/exits.
If you started PvP, you are flagged for - let's say - 2 Minutes after you last agressive action. Being flagged you can't change zone. -> No zone-whoring anymore. "Stand you man! You started war? Suck it up to the bitter end." ;-)
If you are outside the city, you are free do do, whatever you want. NCPD does not watch there. But the 2-minutes-flag still applies.
Sewers in City are also watched by NCPD-Drones according to their distance from the inner city; therefore the same rules apply there.
There are also high level sewers in the City.
The caves with the biggest provit promised are in the wastelands.
Very rare items can also only be found in the wastelands.
---------------
1.) Do you like this system?
2.) Do you recognize, from which game this systems is copied from? :-)
And yes ... in the other game the hardcore PvPers als also whining about the people not leaving "the city", and "the bad bad restrictions preventing them from being 'free'". But it still works fine.
Anyway:
It does not matter, which game you take: Both sides have the right to choose their way of playing the game. The maintainer/owner of the game is just obliged to ensure, that no one of the sides abuses mechanics from one side to interfere the other side.
yes, Zefrian, eve has a pretty nice ruleset for dealing with consented/unconsrntrd PvP. we'd need to add clan-wars tho.
Well, if i remember right from one of the closed threads, there was a complaint about LEd runner blocking caves from being reset.
As Non-LEd runner can't solve that problem by themselves, i suggest following changes, which do not interfere with the rights of the LEd runners:
If your character does not do an offensive action within 10 Minutes, it will be warped out of cave. (no afk-blocking)
If a cave hasn't been reset for over 2 hours, alls runners in that cave are warped out and cave will be reset.
Reason:
If you are playing the game, you do actions. In a cave there are offensive action expected. And if a cave has not been cleared within 2 hours, the runners are to weak to get it cleared. Joined the cave too late? No whine ... you will get a fresh cave.
What about that?
Arista Barret
20-02-13, 20:11
ZeFrian...I agree that problems and griefs can be fixed by the devs. We also cannot ignore that an irritated LE trying to farm woc discs will now say he leveling in order to justify blocking respawn of prototypes. One single LE in crp will block a respawn for two hours in order to vent his frustration. Last time i was in crp, an LE guy blocked the spawn because he hated our clan. I tried to inform him that blocking a spawn would result in a warning and then ban. I dont support banning so i tried to work it out on my own. He got mad and turned me in for impersonating a GM. I got the first warning on my account ever. LE guys dont fight fair. They use the rules and the GMs against you. We have lost alot of good players and had alot of fun nights ruined.
ZeFrian...I agree that problems and griefs can be fixed by the devs. We also cannot ignore that an irritated LE trying to farm woc discs will now say he leveling in order to justify blocking respawn of prototypes. One single LE in crp will block a respawn for two hours in order to vent his frustration. Last time i was in crp, an LE guy blocked the spawn because he hated our clan. I tried to inform him that blocking a spawn would result in a warning and then ban. I dont support banning so i tried to work it out on my own. He got mad and turned me in for impersonating a GM. I got the first warning on my account ever. LE guys dont fight fair. They use the rules and the GMs against you. We have lost alot of good players and had alot of fun nights ruined.
As GM Tharos
As already stated for caves:
If an LE'd runner is blocking a cave from being reset by just "standing in a corner and doing nothing for a 'long time'", this is not allowed and should be reported by an ingame ticket.
But as long as the LE'd runner is active killing Mobs (in your words: "leveling"), he is allowed to do so.
It does not matter, it the "boss mob" is already wiped out, or not, as long as there are other mobs, which give some kind of reward like experience points.
ZeFrian...I agree that problems and griefs can be fixed by the devs. We also cannot ignore that an irritated LE trying to farm woc discs will now say he leveling in order to justify blocking respawn of prototypes. One single LE in crp will block a respawn for two hours in order to vent his frustration. Last time i was in crp, an LE guy blocked the spawn because he hated our clan. I tried to inform him that blocking a spawn would result in a warning and then ban. I dont support banning so i tried to work it out on my own. He got mad and turned me in for impersonating a GM. I got the first warning on my account ever. LE guys dont fight fair. They use the rules and the GMs against you. We have lost alot of good players and had alot of fun nights ruined.
I do not want to become personally but after reading the last 4 dozen posts of you i would like to state that i cannot remember a similar case or time in which one poisoned the (difficult) relationship between pvp and pve or LE oriented players in that amount you do here.
Not good, Sir.
Reed
Arista Barret
20-02-13, 20:57
LE runners and LE inspired exploits and entitlements have poisoned the relationships. I am not the topic of this thread.
Deus Ex Machina
20-02-13, 21:50
1) I don't like the system. Although never was relevant in the way that it would kill me, the inevitability of the kill was always something of that system that I hated. And in Neocron I don't think there are even ways where that solution is bringing any positive for the attacker beyond griefing, so you could ban PvP at all inside the city and against that I would be much more. Its the same with the many mechanisms in other MMORPGS where there are villages and so on there are ridiculus overpowered NPCs that can kill everything with one look. Neocron if one of the last place for refugees that don't like that.
I just have to think back at the event in Viarosso 2 last time, with the Biotechs and Tangents shooting each other. The event would not be justified really, since they should have all be executed immediatly. And any Runner that helped and placed one wrong shot, which happens in the heat, would have been killed too.
With that in place the most interestin encounters I had in NC wouldn't have happened. Nearly none of them I think.
2) Ye I recognized it, the "no chance to escape" mechanism is a dead give away to everyone that knows the game.
demonssword
20-02-13, 22:26
LE runners and LE inspired exploits and entitlements have poisoned the relationships. I am not the topic of this thread.
If ya dont like it you can always leave...
Either way some classes / specs require a good level of gear to actually be pvp viable. Some of which actually seem to need you to have PPR / MC5 / Rare head imp + 1 other just to get enough to start. So as someone said dont let LE'd players have rare parts. That would be nuts as you would have to farm up parts or cash on a character to support any alts you have or any new players to the game.
MC5, WoC & DOY lv3 tunnel TBH are kinda good ideas to have as zones where it is fair game for anyone to be attacked in because of the loot from there could or maybe should be considered more special than normal.
Part of the trouble with the idea is coding it would be a nightmare probably. Also as others have said a large number of people love to PVE and only want to PVE and dont mind losing a head chip.
I think a better solution could be to give people without LE in a bigger reward, so maybe in MC5 players can pick up a quest that LE'd players cant. On killing X number of base commanders (say 30) they are rewarded with an additional box of stuff that can contain X number of rareparts (say 10) and 1-2 mc5 parts / ultimas / illy slot enhancers or whatever. But can only get the quest once every 3 days or week or something to limit it.
This will reward those who do take out there LE with a bonus without giving such a heavy penalty as to make them all cry.
OR maybe have it that LE'd players can take the mission but with less freqency that non LE'd
cause many people play nc cause his fabulous pve.
Dropout, pls.
I do - got a problem with that? :wtf:
Arista Barret
21-02-13, 01:15
LE was born to prevent pking on low lvl, and still that's what's worth for.
Ready to join the real neocron? Remove LE and continue your character.
You could have a point if
-Entire account with or without LE
-No multiple accounts permitted
But that's not our situation.
Why a low lvl should not be able to see the entire world and die by his own while trying to discovery ( or kill ) anything?
It brings no problems ( cause XP cap and Impossibility to get drops ).
LE actually is a problem ( also for finding a party, cause everybody has LE on ), but removing zones from LE chars is not the answer.
i'm pretty sure that with a stat cap and no chance to get rares we'll be back to Neocron immediatly.
I would like to hear more from this guy.
Arista Barret
21-02-13, 01:18
the real problem is that everybody can have a LE char for farming.
1) LE chars shouldn't be able to loot any rare item, which include
-Rare parts ( wanna farm rares? go with your not LE char, and risk to get any )
-Woc Disks ( same as before )
-Ultima and Eyes ( same as before ).
-Mc5 (same as before )
2) Stats cap ( reaching /50 should block your exp till LE is put out )
-NB: also prevent you from loming, and cheating trying to cap a specific stat
3) Safe Zones would be a problem ( harder to set up ), and with a drop table restriction and a stats cap, should not be needed.
I didn't see so many LE while both on uranus and terra.
And this is a fuckin MMOFPS.
LE was born to prevent pking on low lvl, and still that's what's worth for.
Ready to join the real neocron? Remove LE and continue your character.
You could have a point if
-Entire account with or without LE
-No multiple accounts permitted
But that's not our situation.
Why a low lvl should not be able to see the entire world and die by his own while trying to discovery ( or kill ) anything?
It brings no problems ( cause XP cap and Impossibility to get drops ).
LE actually is a problem ( also for finding a party, cause everybody has LE on ), but removing zones from LE chars is not the answer.
i'm pretty sure that with a stat cap and no chance to get rares we'll be back to Neocron immediatly.
I think more needs to be said about this guys ideas
I do - got a problem with that? :wtf:
Not at all.
And as u see you're the only one who said "i like nc pve as endgame".
I would like to hear more from this guy.
Nothing more.
Is just a bit different from the nc i played years ago.
With regard to the original post, I have often wondered about the changes to zone safety since returning to the City.
When I began playing long ago, runners were rewarded for killing enemies in Pepper Park, but couldn't even draw a weapon in parts of plaza and VR. The LE didn't work in the OZ or the wasteland, and there were no penalties in those "completely wild" areas for killing enemies. I hovered at the Big Door in trepidation for a few minutes before venturing out to Jeriko the first time, as I recall. Knowing that I was about to cross into the wild wastes.
That kinda seems lost to us in the current state of affairs. Seems silly to worry about PvP in VR, and silly not to in Pepper Park, what gives?
i wonder how long this complaing about the LE will continue.
With regard to the original post, I have often wondered about the changes to zone safety since returning to the City.
When I began playing long ago, runners were rewarded for killing enemies in Pepper Park, but couldn't even draw a weapon in parts of plaza and VR. The LE didn't work in the OZ or the wasteland, and there were no penalties in those "completely wild" areas for killing enemies. I hovered at the Big Door in trepidation for a few minutes before venturing out to Jeriko the first time, as I recall. Knowing that I was about to cross into the wild wastes.
That kinda seems lost to us in the current state of affairs. Seems silly to worry about PvP in VR, and silly not to in Pepper Park, what gives?
Feel the same way man. It's like DoY came along, they wanted to mix things up so they changed the zones and moved copbots around but no one ever thought to undo the changes when they realized that only a small amount of players were happy with DoY.
I'd love to see zones reverted to the way things were in NC1. Plaza/VR safezones, no copbots in PP, faction HQs not being safezones. But I don't know, it's probably just wishful thinking.
i wonder how long this complaing about the LE will continue.
For as long as the LE splits the community the way it does. Don't talk about different playstyles as the reason everyone keeps the LE in either. They're not really given a choice, there are too many reasons to keep it in and not take it out. Back in NC1 when everyone removed their LE upon creating their character(or shortly after) clans were created for people who didn't really want to pvp. They were tradeskillers and if they wanted an OP they would form alliances with other clans(that did like to pvp) or pay a clan to help them take OPs. This type of playstyle I would love to see come back but instead everyone has their LE in sitting around P1 treating the game like a chatroom.
i wonder how long this complaing about the LE will continue.
Honestly, this comment is trollbait just as much as it would be if I threw around "carebear" to mean those of you that prefer unobstructed PvE (search my posts, not something I have often done.)
And the answer is "as long as it is a divisive and controversial mechanic." Your stance is "It works great for me! Don't change it!" and that has been made clear. But the LE does not work as it was designed, and does not work well for the entire population, thus it is a regular topic. Until someone in development comes along and says "Hey guise, shut up about LE'z cause we're not ever fixing them!" it's going to be a topic.
"Works for me!" isn't helpful in a quest for harmony. So, since your view that the LE is perfect as it stands has been stated, it's cool, we know how you feel. Slaggin on me for saying "Things used to be like this, now they are like that, why?" is pretty lame. Try an answer to the question that relates to game mechanics and intended play rather than "'Cause I like it that way." and we'll have a more productive discourse. K?
arguments, at least.
For as long as the LE splits the community the way it does.you mean, like hundreds of players getting along pretty well with the current system vs 5 to 10 guys, who want to change it to their own likes? i can live with that.
Don't talk about different playstyles as the reason everyone keeps the LE in either. They're not really given a choice, there are too many reasons to keep it in and not take it out. Back in NC1 when everyone removed their LE upon creating their character(or shortly after) clans were created for people who didn't really want to pvp. They were tradeskillers and if they wanted an OP they would form alliances with other clans(that did like to pvp) or pay a clan to help them take OPs. This type of playstyle I would love to see come back but instead everyone has their LE in sitting around P1 treating the game like a chatroom.i take it as a fact that NC needs measures to deal with the question of unconsented PvP as much as any other MMORPG. i'm not perfectly happy with the current LE system, but i'm also somewhat sure you wouldnt like my ideas either. the situation of NC 2.2 is pretty much different from NC 1.0, so i'm asking you for not getting too nostalgic about that. we cant simply pretend to be back in the days. oh, speaking of which - i remember sitting around UN-LE'd in pepper park, 'treating the game like a chatroom', because there was nearly no context-free PvP going on that time.
Honestly, this comment is trollbait just as much as it would be if I threw around "carebear" to mean those of you that prefer unobstructed PvE (search my posts, not something I have often done.)let me answer you by replacing one word of your sentence.
Honestly, this comment is trollbait just as much as it would be if I threw around "carebear" to mean those of you that prefer unobstructed PvP... see? some people want as much PvP as they can get, and some don't. this is in fact a matter of different playing styles. the LE is one possible measure to separate the PvP-crowd from the Non-PvP-crowd. there are other rule sets implemented to other games, and we all can think of even more exotic ways to deal with that question. as stated numerous times before, i'd prefer a totally different setup, without any LE at all. but simply attempting to make the LE less attractive and thus force people to get rid of it will fail. at least as long as we dont come up with a better system to regulate PvP.
I think you misunderstand me. It isn't about unrestricted PvP, as I have proposed restrictions to PvP. It's about the idea of "opting out" of PvP entirely. Is that a facet of this game? It wasn't when I began playing, or rather those that did not PvP stayed in the Pro-City protected areas and didn't go outside of them. That was simply the game as was developed. Hence, the "non-PvP gameplay" was that of a tradeskiller who stayed in the safe zones and made their money by doing non-PvP things in non-PvP areas.
I don't want "as much PvP as I can get" at all. I am, in fact, a little irritable when enemies come and frag me when all I want is a foot implant in Plaza, but that's not a good and compelling reason to turn NC into a typical western MMO simply because of genre expectation. NC launched before those MMO's that set your genre expectations, and its singular vision is part of what set it apart in my opinion.
What I do want is a way to bully my enemies off of my block (since I live in the "PvP enabled, according to player create" Pepper Park), or start a fight with them, because they are my enemy. What I don't like is having a cuppa with my mortal foe because "Hey, that's my play style, fucker." That's not the way this game was designed, and if it is the current dev target, that should be stated so that those of us that are interested in something that isn't WoW can move on and find something more suited.
Regulating PvP is precisely what has been suggested by "You may PvP here and here, but not there." and "Tradeskillers shouldn't go to primarily PvP spots." What more can we do? /duel before fighting? Not kill folks that say "Wait, I don't wanna die right now" ? Really?
Not at all.
And as u see you're the only one who said "i like nc pve as endgame".
I didn't realise we needed to stand up and be counted. The PvE in this game is miles better than most, if not all, other MMO PvE. You know the ones, "Target-lock, press buttons 1 - 0, repeat". I very much enjoy the PvE in NC and have been playing the game just for that privilege for several years now (on and off). My RL close friends and family also play the game for the same reason.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean others don'. Why do you think there are so many capped LE players around?
I didn't realise we needed to stand up and be counted. The PvE in this game is miles better than most, if not all, other MMO PvE. You know the ones, "Target-lock, press buttons 1 - 0, repeat". I very much enjoy the PvE in NC and have been playing the game just for that privilege for several years now (on and off). My RL close friends and family also play the game for the same reason.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean others don'. Why do you think there are so many capped LE players around?
i didn't say this.
I contested a "if u let LE pop out u will lose 30%-50% nc population".
PVE isn't better than others MMO ( u didn't play any other mmo i suppose ), cause is only long range shots, using healing tools and scenario to fuck up mobs with a ridicolous AI. Also be lame with barrel or aoe weapon ( first monks and droners, then others ), shoting to a place and hitting all area without be seeing. This is lame, not skilled nor ok ( also with the highest resistances in the world, think about a tank, without shields now you are nothing, so let all snipe all around ).
Also talking about "target" then "press left click"... dude, this is the actual pve on nc. On others mmo u have to use multiple skills. This is a MMOFPS and u have to shot, so only aim ( not skill, against mobs ) and click.
Think you are plaiyng a different game from mine. Or at least you enjoy a bad ai ( AI is ok cause no needed in a MMOFPS based on op fights and map control ) and farming of rares... and trust me, this is ok. It's relaxing and cause bugs could be awesome as fight, sometimes :p
Also, what about world pvp if any1 goes rares, mc5, doy, caves and others with his LE char and goes with alt only at op fights when needed or viarosso/pepper/randomcityzone for skirmish? What about enemy factions? and alliances? I really think that die and also drop is a part of the game and i can accept that some1 like to dress up his chars, have 10 accounts and lvling every kind of spec to have a complete army, with LE on.
But it's useless and don't help in terms of life on a MMOFPS game like nc.
Not at all.
And as u see you're the only one who said "i like nc pve as endgame".
[QUOTE=Shirlias;2203717]i didn't say this./QUOTE]
You did, it's your quote. ??
Anyway, I feel PvP to be a complete waste of time and get no fun from it whatsoever. However, I know others love to PvP so I don't want to change the game so dramatically that it negatively affects their experience. I don't ask for most zones to be safezones nor do I try to block game content from PvP'rs. Kindly show the same respect and understanding and leave the PvR'rs to our game.
The only issue I see with LE players is when they park on top of someones kill (this can work both ways) and there have been numerous valid suggestions to fix this.
Check the beginning of the conversation instead waste my time.
There's a reply follow one of mine that say "without LE nc gonna lose 30%-50% of his population".
Btw...
...let me understand, you join a MMOFPS based as i said on Op fights/Map conquest/trading between factions and pretent to play with no pvp? As forever passive spectator with total immunity from NC and his Environment? And pretend to not lose privileges nor to be an issue in the Game System?
Really, it can't be commented.
If you ask me, the idea behind the LE is awesome. It promises to cater a broad spectrum of players, offering a midway between a 100% free for all and a heavily restricted environment (e.g. World of Warcraft).
Removing the LE completely is not a solution and I think most actually knows this, even if it's easier to just flex the muscles and exclaim remove the LE. The current population balance depends on it and will continue to do so if/when it grows.
With this said, I do believe that some changes should be considered. I'll give an example of what I think to be a valid and invalid argument.
Valid: Areas dropping something unique, like Ceres labs and MC5. You cannot fight for your right to be in these areas and you cannot go elsewhere either to get what you want. Resorting to train mob tactics onto players isn't really the way to go either. Areas providing something unique should be open to all to fight for.
Invalid: It is unfair that random player X hunts rares all day without the risk of getting killed by players. This to me is invalid, because there is absolutely nothing stopping you from doing the same and hunt rares as well since there are plenty of spots and opportunities to do so. If you by principle won't, then that it your privilege but also your problem.
If a proper survey would be conducted we would probably be surprised by the amount of players that enjoy the LE as an integral part of their game play and that they have no intention of taking it out. These players stand for a significant number on the server, but also a dynamic environment which you would loose if they were not present.
Personally I have no issue with pure trade skill clans having for example LEd alts to set them selves up. A lot don't even have a clan. While I can agree that I think this is somewhat boring, it's their choice. I can't really imagine NC consisting exclusively of PvP characters. First of all there are enough egos to go around several times and secondly trading would become more restricted/private. The buzz in p1 for example would probably be gone.
Just ranting here what's on my mind really... As I said, there are cases that need to get attention, but do remember the unique balance of characters the LE brings, so don't call for it to be removed or restricted to such a point where you cannot "make a living with it" so to speak.
For me, the main problem is being able to contest for unique areas and locations. LEd players should still be allowed here, but the LE should turn itself off when in those areas.
pottburter
21-02-13, 13:28
If a proper survey would be conducted we would probably be surprised by the amount of players that enjoy the LE as an integral part of their game play and that they have no intention of taking it out.
And if asked why so, I bet most would say because they don't like to constantly being shot in the back while fighting a mob and already being low on health.
I'm not saying we need a challenging system or the like, but most of the "open world PVP" nowadays consist of being assaulted while hunting/leveling by someone already up to spec.
If a proper survey would be conducted we would probably be surprised by the amount of players that enjoy the LE as an integral part of their game play and that they have no intention of taking it out. These players stand for a significant number on the server, but also a dynamic environment which you would loose if they were not present.
This would have to be a survey that popped up in-game since most people don't bother with posting on the forums. I think then you might be surprised by how many players see a problem with the LE. If it was only on the forums I would not be surprised to see how many players enjoy having the LE imp in as a permanent part of their gameplay.
For me, the main problem is being able to contest for unique areas and locations. LEd players should still be allowed here, but the LE should turn itself off when in those areas.
100% Agree with you on this point. Most of the unique areas were always intended to be contended for with other players and never intended to be "peaceful" zones by any means.
I think then you might be surprised by how many players see a problem with the LE.
I have no doubt a lot of people have problems with it. What I am hoping for is that we will find a solution which doesn't answer the cries for a complete removal and/or game altering changes, but that attacks the core problems. At least to start with, obviously if more changes are needed, then they are needed, but please do not just change the LE completely in one broad swoop.
It's comes easy, I know. Being in that instance, the LEd person blocking the spawn, to just shout out that the LE should be removed already.
I have no doubt a lot of people have problems with it. What I am hoping for is that we will find a solution which doesn't answer the cries for a complete removal and/or game altering changes, but that attacks the core problems. At least to start with, obviously if more changes are needed, then they are needed, but please do not just change the LE completely in one broad swoop.
It's comes easy, I know. Being in that instance, the LEd person blocking the spawn, to just shout out that the LE should be removed already.
I can't speak for everyone but I don't think most of us want the LE removed from the game since it's not a very viable solution. However certain restrictions should be enforced upon LE users, people hear this and immediately think the worst though. Changes need to happen with the LE, whether in stages or one broad swoop. There are some people who keep their LE in simply because they have no reason to remove it. It's more beneficial to keep it in so that they can go to places like the chaos caves and actually get heals from a PPU since the majority of people leveling keep their LE in.
Now this is just my opinion but those same people are missing out on the best pvp. PvP against people around your level is a lot of fun(currently this doesn't really exists since so many keep their LE's in, so the only people to fight against would be higher levels). This community has become fragile and catered to because of MMO's that came out after neocron with solo-friendly content but it shouldn't be that way. Neocron has never been a run-of-the-mill type of game, it has always stood out as something different and should always strive to be different. People come to neocron to get away from the ordinary MMO's of today. That's the reason I came back when I heard a volunteer dev team took over.
We all love this game in different ways and want to see it become better now that a dev team that actually cares about the game is working on it. Bottom line is KK did a lot of things wrong and the current devs have a lot of work to do to fix what KK messed up so badly. The changes that I've seen so far are what keeps me hopeful they will try to bring back the glory of neocron.
Check the beginning of the conversation instead waste my time.
There's a reply follow one of mine that say "without LE nc gonna lose 30%-50% of his population".
Btw...
...let me understand, you join a MMOFPS based as i said on Op fights/Map conquest/trading between factions and pretent to play with no pvp? As forever passive spectator with total immunity from NC and his Environment? And pretend to not lose privileges nor to be an issue in the Game System?
Really, it can't be commented.
If it was just based on OP fights etc then they would automatically enforce LE removal after xx level. They don't and never have, so what does that tell you about what the game was originally based around?
Incidentally, when I first played this game way back in NC 1, I removed the LE as soon as I got in game, bypassed any noob MC5 involvement and and got stuck in. Just about everyone did the same back then, hundreds of runners all without LE trying to level and play the game. There were actually clans set up with the, almost, sole purpose of ganking anyone of any level regardless of their gameplay activity. Being a noob in the aggie cellars getting attacked by high level runners most days of the week was not fun. When NC 2 came around it got worse, less safezones etc. A lot of people, including myself fled the game. Sometime later I came back with all my friends who had left and a couple of new ones. We all started from scratch with LE's and have enjoyed the game much more because of it.
The only effects I have n the NC environment is there is one less cannon fodder running around and I provide services to other runners when they need FSM or a tradeskiller (regardless of their LE disposition).
If it was just based on OP fights etc then they would automatically enforce LE removal after xx level. They don't and never have, so what does that tell you about what the game was originally based around?
No, really, they did.
what does that say about what the game was originally based around?
Also, there was no MC5, that is also an NC2 addition.
you mean, like hundreds of players getting along pretty well with the current system vs 5 to 10 guys, who want to change it to their own likes? i can live with that.
My clan alone, RSC, has more than 200 runners, so roughly 50 accounts, owned by roughly 30 players. All of these players agrees that some change with LE is wanted.
Half of the posters here have nothing to do with my clan, and so far only
Jodo and Torg seems to vehemently disagree. We can estimate a good 10 posters/players unrelated to RSC, at bare minimum. So this summary head count is about 40.
Lets not forget half the population of Titan isnt on the forums, and with 40% as peak population out of which 25% are secondary accounts, 40 players is about 12% of a total of 300 players.
And I am not counting German forums and other PVP clans. I would be interested to see the results of a poll held on the launcher page as to hoe many players wish to see LE rules changes.
No, really, they did.
Also, there was no MC5, that is also an NC2 addition.
At what point was there automatic removal? NC 1 beta?
Noob MC5 was in NC 1.
Half of the posters here have nothing to do with my clan, and so far only
Jodo and Torg seems to vehemently disagree. We can estimate a good 10 posters/players unrelated to RSC, at bare minimum. So this summary head count is about 40.
Lets not forget half the population of Titan isnt on the forums, and with 40% as peak population out of which 25% are secondary accounts, 40 players is about 12% of a total of 300 players.
Lets not forget that (as a lot of people keep whining about) a great deal of the population are actually LE'd. As for just Torg and myself, you've clearly missed several threads of very similar discussion (why has this been allowed btw mods?) over the last week with a great deal of interaction and opinions from both sides.
Well my summary headcount only focussed the english part of the community, even though my clan has german players.
If we estimate the same number, 40, for the German community, we're looking at 80 out of 300, which is 24% or roughly 1/4 players of the player base.
My estimate is rough, and on the realisticly harsher side. I think on the real 1/3 player would like to see changes. (not removal)
William Antrim
21-02-13, 20:03
No, really, they did.
Also, there was no MC5, that is also an NC2 addition.
Huh? What the fuck?
There has never been forced LE removal that I know of and I started in Dec 02. We used to have LE XP penalties but these were removed around the middle of 2003. Also in late 2003/2004 MC5 was added.
You can search the thread or the old patch notes. It said a mysterious installation has appeared in the wastes. On uranus at least nearly every english speaking runner on the server banded together to go check it out. I didnt bother as my toons were still too new and I wanted to crack on with levelling in the newly opened chaos caves.
At what point was there automatic removal? NC 1 beta?
Noob MC5 was in NC 1.
I would have to ask a mod to see if they could find out when my account was created the first time (if they even have that data) but I'd estimate it was a month or so before my forum account, and if I recall correctly it was week one of North American release (they called me at something like 3 am to verify my CC!) So, it was retail, but early retail when I made my first char. LE's automatically "fell out" when you dinged L10 or so. They also didn't work in various areas of the world. (There's that audio bit that says as much about "your safety is only guaranteed within the city limits." that you'll hear in the city now and then.)
MC5 came way later, with the addition of the epics bit by bit. When I started there was no tutorial and you started out in your apartment, ready to rock. Also, if you chose TG, FA, BD or TS there was this dialog that popped up that said "Hey, fair warning, but you've chosen a faction that lives in a PvP enabled space, don't die too much, K?" and allowed you to back up and choose a different faction.
My clan alone, RSC, has more than 200 runners, so roughly 50 accounts, owned by roughly 30 players. All of these players agrees that some change with LE is wanted.
Half of the posters here have nothing to do with my clan, and so far only
Jodo and Torg seems to vehemently disagree. We can estimate a good 10 posters/players unrelated to RSC, at bare minimum. So this summary head count is about 40.
Lets not forget half the population of Titan isnt on the forums, and with 40% as peak population out of which 25% are secondary accounts, 40 players is about 12% of a total of 300 players.
And I am not counting German forums and other PVP clans. I would be interested to see the results of a poll held on the launcher page as to hoe many players wish to see LE rules changes.
Nice mathethematics you are doing here :p
If the pvp content is the base for success why did Neptune failed so miserably ?
I believe that two things are really the base for success of the game:
1) a good balanced mixture of pvp and non-pvp content in this very competitive game
2) a maximum of choices the player could do to choose how he wants to play = maximúm number of people which are happy with it
I can easily accept that you and who knows how much dozens of your mates are unhappy with the LE playstile (i guess your mates are complete unLE'd ?). But as long as you cannot make it clear to me WHY i should play without LE and take these wonderful pvp , so long i cannot see why i have to.
Fact is that - atmospherical issues excepted - LE playstile does not affect the pvp and vice versa (exploits excepted).
You want make pvp ? Feel free to do so !
You do not want pvp ? ok, hold your LE.
What the hell is your problem ? Not enough to shoot at ? :p
Reed
William Antrim
21-02-13, 20:15
If you still cant understand it Dr reed youre either blind to it completely or you just chose to ignore the valid and thoughtful posts made by those with a different opinion to your own.
Everyone who doesn't like the LE (pretty much) has this opinion due to the behaviour of certain players in the game WHILST wearing the LE.
They can go anywhere they want, they can shoot anything they want, they can spawn-block and all the other wonderful things and they can do it all without any consequence for their actions.
I cannot understand how you cannot get this or even mildly accept that it happens, plenty.
You have once again fallen back on these old, tired beat up statements that various members of this forum have bandied around since Titan started up. There really is nothing new in your last 5 posts at least on the subject.
People need to be held accountable for their actions and if that is at gun point then so be it.
If you still cant understand it Dr reed youre either blind to it completely or you just chose to ignore the valid and thoughtful posts made by those with a different opinion to your own.
Everyone who doesn't like the LE (pretty much) has this opinion due to the behaviour of certain players in the game WHILST wearing the LE.
They can go anywhere they want, they can shoot anything they want, they can spawn-block and all the other wonderful things and they can do it all without any consequence for their actions.
I cannot understand how you cannot get this or even mildly accept that it happens, plenty.
You have once again fallen back on these old, tired beat up statements that various members of this forum have bandied around since Titan started up. There really is nothing new in your last 5 posts at least on the subject.
People need to be held accountable for their actions and if that is at gun point then so be it.
No, no you get me wrong, Sir.
I can understand that some people are angry about that other players with LE could do this other way than they do.
But again the question: whats the problem with this ? First, you could let them play their style (or do you fear that there are WOC discs could go out of stock due to overfarming ?) :p .
Second: every player could do this also, one char with, one char without LE.
Dont bother again and again what other player do all the time.
Reed
William Antrim
21-02-13, 20:48
You can understand why people are angry but you ask what the problem is?
Which is it?
The sarcasm is truly not needed and the rest of your post I am afraid I cannot understand. You are a very confusing person. Perhaps it is a language problem. I cannot see it being anything else other than that unless you are trying to keep the fires burning on this issue.
They can go anywhere they want, they can shoot anything they want, they can spawn-block and all the other wonderful things and they can do it all without any consequence for their actions.
They can go anywhere they want - fine, whats the problem? So can you!
They can shoot anything they want - wrong, they can't shoot you. So are you just mad because they can also hunt mobs and you can't kill them while they do so?`You don't happen to be one of the 2 idiots riding combat hovers and ganking leveling/farming players 'til kingdom come?
They can spawn block - misuse of game mechanics - report to a GM. IF the cave is empty (like the final room at regants is cleared everytime).
If it isn't empty because some players choose to rush through and just kill the Bossmob - wait until the cave is clear. Or invite them into the team and clear it with them. That way those LE's players will get more XP and you get a reset cave fast. Win/Win. Oh, sorry, I forgot, its easier to whine about that you can't kill them, my bad. My LE PE did even recycle ammo / medpacks for the non LEs out at Milbase Bunker because they invited me. We had lots of fun TOGETHER. At NC1 I had no problem getting my LE out - there were simply not THAT much triggerhappy morons out there those days... But when you can't even run throught Plaza 2 to your app without being ganked (and right in front of the copbots) then I wish I never removed the LE on 2 of my chars
You can understand why people are angry but you ask what the problem is?
Which is it?
The sarcasm is truly not needed and the rest of your post I am afraid I cannot understand. You are a very confusing person. Perhaps it is a language problem. I cannot see it being anything else other than that unless you are trying to keep the fires burning on this issue.
I have not created the thread nor am i interested in "keep it on fire" because i do not want reduce/ remove LE playstyle.
To be little bit confusion is something i could live with :)
Perhaps i should try other articulation. Let me say what i believe what the true intentions of all these "LE ruins the game" threads are:
There is a group of posters here that state that the LE is unfair for other. The LE's would miss one of Neocrons best : pvp.
Let us assume that most players (like me !!) fullcap and/or woc their char and the REMOVE the LE voluntary. The "LE problem" decreases from week to week because more and more chars are without LE.
So the whole "problem" is partially a "storm in a teacup".
Then there are 2 other LE players:
- the noob, who wants to level without pvp
- the collector who want to hunt without pvp
- the non-pvp player who never want to take part in pvp
The latter 2 won't probably remove their LE ever.
What the mentioned group of players here want is to urge other players to take part in pvp whether they want or not. These players won't make pvp with you even if you could force them with locking content and locations to remove their LE. And if they remove their LE to unlock the mc5 or the DOY tunnels then they are probably not the best pvpers and/ or have no fun to make pvp.
Only effect is that the mentioned group of players could kill them.
The result is very obvious and well known:
You never will force player to make pvp if they dont want to or to be easy sittings ducks for OOC flaming gankers - they will leave the game.
That's not a problem however, don't mind.
Hope that makes a little bit more clear why i am argueing for a choice of playstyle. Minor adjujstments - ok, but most of the posts here are leading to the logical demand at end: remove of LE.
Reed
William Antrim
22-02-13, 01:49
I just find myself repeating myself over and over and that is why I dont post in these threads. No haggis - get some paragraphs bro. Press enter once or twice.
Reed - again no. The point is in my last post. Nothing to do with ganking people. I am done with all of this. I get the point you were trying to make six or eight posts ago. But you seem to just totally miss mine. I think I am right in this.
I just find myself repeating myself over and over and that is why I dont post in these threads. No haggis - get some paragraphs bro. Press enter once or twice.
Reed - again no. The point is in my last post. Nothing to do with ganking people. I am done with all of this. I get the point you were trying to make six or eight posts ago. But you seem to just totally miss mine. I think I am right in this.
I feel the same way, I've said "we don't want the LE removed" multiple times and yet it's still brought up as a counter-point and I don't think anyone said that. So we are forced to repeat ourselves but no one seems to be listening on the other end.
Arista Barret
22-02-13, 03:03
I understand your POV, the current system does encourage you to keep in the LE longer than it used to, it's just more efficient...I could be wrong but I think there are a lot of players that would remove, or at least experiment with removing the LE, if it wasn’t permanent.
NC PVP rules (the LE) predate modern MMO’s and are rather simplistic in comparison to those that have more robust rules. Right now I see two sides arguing what the LE is or is supposed to be;
1) The LE is supposed to be there to protect noobs only.
2) The LE is there to protect runners that do not want to participate in PVP.
I always saw it as serving both purposes, which is why I think it’s currently broken. If it’s supposed to be there for number 2, it shouldn’t have a requirement that the runner has to be lower level than /30 in order to be re-implanted. And if it’s only supposed to be there until the runner hits level /30 then why doesn’t it automatically pop out? My assumption was always that this level requirement was there just to deter high-level runners from abusing the system, i.e., get -99 SL, pop in the LE and run missions.
My proposal: remove the level requirement to re-implant and fix the ways it can be abused. So, when removing the LE it breaks (0/0) and cannot be fixed. Create a mission that must be run in order to get another LE chip. That mission can only be started by a runner without an LE in and with positive SL. The only way to complete the mission and get the LE is to have a free brain slot and have the LE implanted automatically via the mission/NPC. If the LE is removed again, it will break and the mission will need to be repeated to get another.
This would certainly bring some interesting play.
The requirement to have positive SL to re-implant the LE is indeed a very interesting proposition.
I feel the same way, I've said "we don't want the LE removed" multiple times and yet it's still brought up as a counter-point and I don't think anyone said that. .....
Ok, then this is the base. :)
Reed
DeathCultLegion
22-02-13, 18:05
i am a PvE Player and i like the tradeskill system and that is why i play Neocron.
If you want pure PvP - play a game that's only focused on PvP (Planetside 2 as example)@PvPJunkies
Neocron is an MMORPGFPS-Hybrid and that implicates that there is PvE and RP Content to explore and PvP aswell.
Arista Barrets main focus is to get as much ganking spots to get kills and destroy someones day - regardless of a low-char or not - he would instantly get his "kill" - bad idea to give in on his asked favor. The LE is a PvP Protection that makes sense to prevent constant grieve-play and finely destroy the game for new players.
So i would agree that DoY, Ceres-Labs and MC5 should be Zones where the LE is inactive (since its a City-admin-Tool - if we take the storyline with in this discussion) we could explain this by saying: Dome Of York and Ceres-Labs contain to much old-techs that interfere with the LE-Signals) - this would mean:
So Arista and all High-Level PvP-Guys, would have the chance to fight the competitors in these Places but would keep the gank-prevention of low-players in place in most of the areas where its needed.
downside of this option:
Worst thing that could happen, that a bunch of douchbags collect enough other douchbags around them, so that they could prevent anyone else from getting highlevel stuff(MC5,DoY-Stuff,WoC-Discs) - that would have a direct impact on the economy of Neocron. MC5, DoY Things and WoC-Discs would be priced by the group that would have control over this area of the game (sadly theres only ONE MC5 - so MC5 prices would rocket up in the sky and just a few of the people in NC could efford them or even get them their selves.
think about it :)
i am a PvE Player and i like the tradeskill system and that is why i play Neocron.
If you want pure PvP - play a game that's only focused on PvP (Planetside 2 as example)@PvPJunkies
Neocron is an MMORPGFPS-Hybrid and that implicates that there is PvE and RP Content to explore and PvP aswell.
[
Not at all.
a) There is lore, not roleplay ( or u can also say there's RP on WoW, WAR, AION, etc. But please don't let me laugh :p ).
b)There is pve, but cause missing AI and absurde dmg it is something between:
-Bugging AI with aoe spells or drones
-Snipering if outdoor
-PPU needed for big ones
Really not a pve game , but pve is needed to get items for pvp.
c)There is explorarion, and as i said exploration must be open to every chara ( LE or not LE ). Trade also must be open to all kind of chara.
Remove LE benefits if outside NC/TG/TH/DOY. That's all.
Not at all.
a) There is lore, not roleplay ( or u can also say there's RP on WoW, WAR, AION, etc. But please don't let me laugh :p ).
b)There is pve, but cause missing AI and absurde dmg it is something between:
-Bugging AI with aoe spells or drones
-Snipering if outdoor
-PPU needed for big ones
Really not a pve game , but pve is needed to get items for pvp.
c)There is explorarion, and as i said exploration must be open to every chara ( LE or not LE ). Trade also must be open to all kind of chara.
Remove LE benefits if outside NC/TG/TH/DOY. That's all.
You serious would claim that this pvp-focused game Neocron has a better pvp than its pve ? LOL
What i find difficult to understand for years is that a lot pf players state that there is a cool open pvp and they play Neocron for this pvp only.
The pvp i could see in Neocron for years is one which was heavily affected and compromised by lot of flaws like:
- clipping/ netcode effects
- postioning bugs
- speed and hyperspeed pvp (as actual :) )
- more or less stages of bad balancings
And , if that would not make it difficult enough , for a long time (and even today) bad hit by excessice use of any Hacks/ cheats and file editing that makes pvp skill a rumour.
If you read evening for evening the funny OOC flamewars by pvp players in which the opponent is complete lowskiller and the winner is the big boy then you find this absurd.
"Really not a pvp game, but pvp is needed to players additional to the nice roleplay/ cyberpunkt atmosphere".
Just another observation for Neocron.
Reed
So the pvp issue atm are due to balance ( point 3 and 4 ) and about netcode (since nc1)?
Dude, you are a fuckin genius :)
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