View Full Version : A working clan war declaration system.
Arista Barret
15-02-13, 01:23
Currently clans are not concerned with faction roleplay. During an op war with enemies we often have green on green. Clans do not typically have assistance from another green clan. It is considered an escalation in the war when you ask your allies to assist. We do not have allies based on faction roleplay either. We choose allies based on respect for each others clan. We need a clan war declaration system that promotes pvp and blends well with clan politics. I suggest a war declaration system that supports war activity with any clan on server regardless of factions. The enemy clan should be shown as red and soul light calculated as an enemy in the zone. Ending a war could me a mutual decision or done by a gm when appropriate. Starting war is not a mutual decision. Its hard to ask for a system where everyone is red, as i would truly like, but there is no reason why we should lose soul light for defending ourselves against a known enemy. Forcing enemies to be more civil in the city can be accomplished with safe zones and copbots just as they are working now. Pepper park needs to have cops removed. We cannot continue to ignore the play styles of our community as varied as they may be. We need to work on solutions and opportunities to improve and provide each player style with choices, rewards, and consequences.
Dude.. Hit enter once in while.. Im sorry, but I just cant read that.
Arista Barret
15-02-13, 02:14
Alright. ill simplfy. Fix the clan war system and make those enemies red.
Alright. ill simplfy. Fix the clan war system and make those enemies red.
Much better :p
And I definitely agree with that ;)
And sorry again, but its close to impossible to read a wall of text (especially when your drunk.. ;) ).
lol why not just do away with the soul light system all together right? That way when you gank Allies or Neutrals you don't have to suffer any penalties at all.
I could also live with an NC that only penalise SL when you kill any runner 10-15 ranks under yours, but does not penalise for killing allies and neutrals.
But on the main topic.
Working clan wars could be something very fun and seems necessary.
It's legit RP to be at war even with a clan within your own faction.
Arista Barret
15-02-13, 03:07
lol why not just do away with the soul light system all together right? That way when you gank Allies or Neutrals you don't have to suffer any penalties at all.
Eliminating even more game content and features is far from a good solution to a problem. The fix that i suggest only gives players more of what they want in the game. This fix would also stop soul light greifing as a pvp tactic. If you want to pvp do it with some honor. Face your enemy.
This suggestion would effectively turn every clan into a separate faction, if you can declare war on clans in the same faction as yours or in an allied faction, you're completely bypassing the faction system and effectively becoming an independent faction.
This isn't criticism, I'm just stating facts from a RP perspective. This suggestion could still be implemented but it would require changing the nature of clans in Neocron's lore and story. Read: Removing every mention of "clans" and instead calling them other factions not affiliated with the current ones we've got.
Deus Ex Machina
15-02-13, 14:01
I am very much against a system where one clan just decides who their enemy is, AND the game world faction just ignores it. But the deeper lying problem is, that there are often allies that attack you, and make it hard to counter that.
I'd think, a system would be nice where
-) you can easily defend for a while when you are attacked (those attack flags are too easily reset, also concerns NPCs)
-) Someone repeatedly attacking allies is no more on good standing with his faction and cannot get on good graces again just by waiting or doing something in a safe zone
-) With such things in place a clanwar system were both have to approve would allow faction intern wars to be fought.
That said, I could imagine a sort of system were war can be declared on others, even in your faction, without them agreeing. But then it would need consequences, for example it would have some significant cost, and if you declare it then the declaring clan loses some standing with the faction thats concerned - till the point the point the whole clan is hunted by that faction.
Its certainly a difficult thing to make.
in my opinion, Neocron should focus more on faction play, not go away from it.
in my opinion, Neocron should focus more on faction play, not go away from it.
Pretty much sums up my sentiments as well. I was thinking of a red/blue system as they have in EVE Online, but it would just screw over the faction system in my opinion. It obviously works in EVE because factions are more of a story line affiliation than anything else. True affiliation in EVE is to the corporation and alliance (which in Neocron is clan and faction).
If you want to shoot green, go ahead, but live with the consequences or switch faction if it's that important.
To really take it to a new level, then maybe talk of implementing soul light loss for killing allied/neutrals even in warzones. How about losing clan symp for hacking an allied/neutral opp. This would alone push for faction alliances.
roseyparks
15-02-13, 18:27
Currently clans are not concerned with faction roleplay. During an op war with enemies we often have green on green. Clans do not typically have assistance from another green clan. It is considered an escalation in the war when you ask your allies to assist. We do not have allies based on faction roleplay either. We choose allies based on respect for each others clan. We need a clan war declaration system that promotes pvp and blends well with clan politics. I suggest a war declaration system that supports war activity with any clan on server regardless of factions. The enemy clan should be shown as red and soul light calculated as an enemy in the zone. Ending a war could me a mutual decision or done by a gm when appropriate. Starting war is not a mutual decision. Its hard to ask for a system where everyone is red, as i would truly like, but there is no reason why we should lose soul light for defending ourselves against a known enemy. Forcing enemies to be more civil in the city can be accomplished with safe zones and copbots just as they are working now. Pepper park needs to have cops removed. We cannot continue to ignore the play styles of our community as varied as they may be. We need to work on solutions and opportunities to improve and provide each player style with choices, rewards, and consequences.
This. Why should people lose soul light for essentially killing an "ally" when in fact almost everyone knows that they're against each other? Just because we're allied through game mechanics (factions), doesn't mean we're allied via clan. There needs to be some sort of system where in-game mechanics can differentiate between actual allies and enemies. I'm sure with some brain power developers/coders can create a simplistic idea/system to create this.
Arista Barret
15-02-13, 19:33
Agreed Rosey. If we as players are forced to play in ways that are not fun, the game will not grow. To address the issue of mutually declaring war, since when is war a voluntary agreement? Ending a war is a mutual decision. Roleplay is important but not a good reason to stop improving the game.
Deus Ex Machina
15-02-13, 23:42
To address the issue of mutually declaring war, since when is war a voluntary agreement?It isn't - but you can shoot them now all you want. Your faction will kick you though, for killing their allies. War against someone in RL isn't voluntary, agreed, but the allies of those you shoot at will shoot you too.
It does work that way.
Pestilence
16-02-13, 00:40
Maybe a war system, where the enemy clan runners just show up in lets say purple instead of green, so you can distinguish friend from enemy, but you still have to live with the same consequences as now. Your faction still does not want you to kill allies, but if you want to do so, you can now actually recognize the people you declared war with.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQkaD6fG8mkWAR!
Doc Holliday
16-02-13, 05:15
Limit the number of clan wars a clan can declare to stop it trying to disassociate itself from its faction by declaring war on ALL other clans in the game and you are in business.
Since EVE was mentioned, I believe it actually cost the clan money to declare war too.
Maybe a war system, where the enemy clan runners just show up in lets say purple instead of green, so you can distinguish friend from enemy, but you still have to live with the same consequences as now. Your faction still does not want you to kill allies, but if you want to do so, you can now actually recognize the people you declared war with.
I would be alright with this, it's one of the most annoying things when we have to fight against allies because all we see is green.
However I don't think that you should lose SL for killing them. Especially since wars against allies are already happening and some of them want you to kill them just so you lose SL/symp, it's a form of grieving. For example they will jump in front of you while you might be shooting an actual enemy just so you hit them so that when they die you take a SL/symp hit.
Bottom line, there needs to be a war system in place.
true, we need a clan war system. having a working clan war system would also give us the option of getting rid of the LE altogether, by limiting PvP to warring clans. but thats 2 different steps to go.
having a working clan war system would also give us the option of getting rid of the LE altogether, by limiting PvP to warring clans. but thats 2 different steps to go.
That is probably one of the worst ideas I have ever heard..
Arista Barret
21-02-13, 21:10
Lets define what a clan war is. red on red is not as important as addressing the very real issue of same faction wars and soul light greifing.
well... as soon as I start my drone it doesnt matter what colour the runner has... they all need to die!
apart from my sardistical nature... clan wars would be cool although... you really want em? i can tell you right now that once we can declare wars on clan... you all are gettin infected!
William Antrim
22-02-13, 16:17
well... as soon as I start my drone it doesnt matter what colour the runner has... they all need to die!
apart from my sardistical nature... clan wars would be cool although... you really want em? i can tell you right now that once we can declare wars on clan... you all are gettin infected!
droning doesnt count. Its like pvp with stabilisers on.
Clan A hacks Clan B's Outpost.
Clan A is now red to clan B, clan B will suffer no penalties for killing them.
Clan A will still suffer penalties.
Arista Barret
24-02-13, 21:33
Clan a hacks clan b outpost.
This is an act of war.
Clan a has declared war in clan b.
Clan a suffers the consequence.
I would say any act of aggression is the trigger for being marked as hostile. aggression timers and then war.
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