View Full Version : I take it back, Please no Double XP weekend.
With the new PVE making firemobs and warbots shoot over vehicles and some hills, Caves almost impossible due to all safespots being removed, double XP would just force everyone into Regants or to poke Rhinos...
Now, I think that PVE was broken, safe spotting was lame and a pile of crap, but the problem lies within the changes to damage/resists. The fact of the matter is: mobs simply hit too hard (even with a good con and ppu buffs!).
Graves and poison caves are still not viable due to the ridiculous damage, and even with a PPU chaos caves is pretty much a joke now. We needed more viable leveling areas with our swelling neocron population, not less!
If you are going to make changes guys please can you consider the consequences and reduce mob damage back to the proportions it used to be. The price of techs is going to be effected by this patch too.
I really like the direction in which Neocron is now heading, however too much is trying to be done too soon. Little bit by little bit is the way forward I think this patch has most certainly taught us that!
I fully expect the usual fanboys to flame in this post but none the less, someone was going to say it
With the new PVE making firemobs and warbots shoot over vehicles and some hills, Caves almost impossible due to all safespots being removed, double XP would just force everyone into Regants or to poke Rhinos...
Now, I think that PVE was broken, safe spotting was lame and a pile of crap, but the problem lies within the changes to damage/resists mobs simply hit too hard (even with a good con and ppu buffs!).
Graves and poison caves are still not viable due to the ridiculous damage, and even with a PPU chaos caves is pretty much a joke now.
If you are going to make changes guys please can you consider the consequences and reduce mob damage back to the proportions it used to be. The price of techs is going to be effected by this patch too.
I fully expect the usual fanboys to flame in this post but none the less, someone was going to say it
Hit it on the head.
Agreed.
He's right, changes have consequences, and while I understand the need to balance mob damage carefully around the new changes some of the problems were easily foreseeable and could at least been alleviated somewhat until a 'proper' balance could be carried out. It's messy, but even a simple reduction in mob damage across the board would have helped and probably wouldn't have made anything but very low level encounters 'too easy', which is a minor side effect when compared with the alternative of making some higher level areas not viable.
Fully agree. Of course the mechanics of the game needed to be fixed as it has, but with that also needs some balancing, otherwise PvE is completely off the cards right now.
William Antrim
08-02-13, 00:45
I have been suggesting just this sort of fix every few months for several years now. I want PVE to be like the old days. IE soloable but DOUBLE the fun in a team. With the XP bonus I think that the team reward is enough to get the team players out there but the solo players/casual/lone wolf types should also have some viability to play their style of game. LE'd or not.
I take it we will be getting x20 exp since we are getting no exp atm PVE is completely broken now sorry but this patch was not thought through properly how can you expect people to come back to this?....... sorry but at this rate it will take weeks to cap tbh I just cant be arsed to play atm, and I know you guys are working hard but people did point this out already and I do think you should have just removed the patch completely until you found a solution since your creating more problems instead of solving them atm.
DigestiveBiscui
08-02-13, 01:31
I hear a lot of talk from people about how much the devs work on this compared to the previous ones. Work means nothing if you don't think it through.
If you said you were doing this before patching the entire forum would of shot you down. Right now no one can enjoy your game - and this is after three days of fucking around trying to fix it.
I just want to play......if i can't do that then ill see you all again in 10 years.
we are getting no exp atm PVE is completely broken now
Please create a bugreport and add more details about the circumstances under which you are not getting XP.
If you said you were doing this before patching the entire forum would of shot you down.
Obviously, if we had expected fallout of this kind, we would not have applied the patch in the first place.
I just want to play......if i can't do that then ill see you all again in 10 years.
As long as we are in the thick of fixing broken mechanics that have been neglected for many years, issues will arise from time to time.
We are not here to solely maintain the broken status quo that lead to an average population peak of ~20 players on Terra. We are here to make Neocron reap in on some more of its potential and that means making changes which in turn means that sometimes things can go wrong. While of course, a primary goal of us remains to provide a safe and stable environment for everyone to enjoy Neocron, the game in its current state shares some attributes of a public beta.
If this is a dealbreaker for anyone, we're sorry, but sometimes you can't have it all.
get ya asses on the testserver next time!
ive fixed it for you Mokoi :D
Doc Holliday
08-02-13, 02:19
Instead of crying about it help fix it. be a part of the problem or part of the solution. Sounds like torg got his wish and the game became harder :)
Now. why not start and collate data to actually figure out whats overpowered and what isnt. then start and log some damage logs etc and get some factual proof of what is broken and figure up some suggestions on how to fix it. i have little time this weekend to play but i will be on soon enough and intend to help where i can.
see you in ten years bici.
DigestiveBiscui
08-02-13, 02:21
Next time it may be better for people to be told to attend a test server day like last time. You have several utilities so get players to listen (such as simply typing a message on the retail server) and this will get their attention to help test rather than go along normally.
The problem i have is one of frustration - It's obvious to me that you guys play the game as we've seen a few dev's popping on to say hi in peak hours. What i don't get is why some changes were done when both of us knew it wouldn't work. Take the choas caves for example - we know from the start of Neocron that if you stand and shoot on the floor no matter who you are they're going to kill you. The damage simply out ways any CON setup you can create.
I would just really like more options to level... the graves and the poison caves are cool content, so it would be nice if they were toned down to give the populace more options. It also might encourage people to rip LE's erlier as they have more options in terms of quiet places to level rather than everyone going el farid, chaos caves or regants.
Its just sad that our current content got made even tougher! :( and the gap between mid level content like launchers and high level content like chaos caves grew bigger.
I have faith the PvE will be addressed in the future, I know the list is a mile high right now
Doc Holliday
08-02-13, 04:33
I would just really like more options to level... the graves and the poison caves are cool content, so it would be nice if they were toned down to give the populace more options. It also might encourage people to rip LE's erlier as they have more options in terms of quiet places to level rather than everyone going el farid, chaos caves or regants.
Its just sad that our current content got made even tougher! :( and the gap between mid level content like launchers and high level content like chaos caves grew bigger.
I have faith the PvE will be addressed in the future, I know the list is a mile high right now
*coughs*
http://forum.neocron-game.com/showthread.php?147352-New-Content-for-Neocron :D
I havent had any problems with mobs. I'll check again, but be sure you're getting your dmg types right. Force/fire. Im still tanking fire mobs with self buff and pvp setup on my pe. If we finally had to tailor detups that'd be great.
Adapt people!
I havent had any problems with mobs. I'll check again, but be sure you're getting your dmg types right. Force/fire. Im still tanking fire mobs with self buff and pvp setup on my pe. If we finally had to tailor detups that'd be great.
Adapt people!
Not overly i dont think, would suck to know that while fighting fire mobs that anyone who comes along with a non fire weapon would romp you, with no hope of anything else happening.
After all, they know you arent using a fire wep against the mob, so they wear energy armour, etc, also know you have nothing but fire armour on.
Doc Holliday
08-02-13, 06:12
Not overly i dont think, would suck to know that while fighting fire mobs that anyone who comes along with a non fire weapon would romp you, with no hope of anything else happening.
After all, they know you arent using a fire wep against the mob, so they wear energy armour, etc, also know you have nothing but fire armour on.
i did that prepatch. always wore full fire armour etc relevant to the mob i was fighting. It is part of the game in that way. If someone does try the gank you can either fight or run. either way chances are you will die so i always choose fight. plus the risk factor of someone having a go makes it that bit more fun. and when u beat someone who jumps you when your fighting a doomie or whatever well thats the ultimate rush imo.
However.
PVE needs the balancing work on it in general because to solo most stuff you have to have range to stay out of its way. it kinda shafts anyone who doesn't have range. I wont stand here and say only tanks can solo but thats generally what you see.
Setups help to an extent but even still range > all. Thats where the problem lies in my eyes. Melee/apu/pistols dont have that range anymore. Pistols kinda do but if you get too close to certain mobs you might as well say good night.
Dribble Joy
08-02-13, 09:25
I always PvE in my PvP gear in case I run into someone unfriendly. As for getting hurt, pistols are fine if you find some cover and medkits+nanites heal you pretty quickly. Obviously melee is kinda shafted atm.
Doc Holliday
08-02-13, 09:34
pistols are fine ;) thats why everyone and his dad uses a rifle. This is how 2.2 got so fucked up in the first place.
Dribble Joy
08-02-13, 09:37
I didn't say they were as good :). Hunting WBs in I_06 with a pistol is near enough impossible on most of the map. Hoverbots are a no go too. For caving though there's not a lot of different since the distances involved are well within pistol range.
DigestiveBiscui
08-02-13, 12:05
Invisible hits kill me more than range on my pistol pe ;-)
William Antrim
08-02-13, 14:00
Caving is ok for pistolers. This is the only thing that is viable.
There need to be some caves that have rare part drops in them for the Pistol and Melee and APU's among us.
Rifles and Tanks can go openworld quite happily solo.
If Lieutenants and Soldiers in the chaos caves (for example) dropped rares this would help things somewhat. Bats too would help.
Also the Bat Queen Bats need to have their model changed from that shitty tiny one to the big green one you see in the wastelands. So we can aim at them better.
DJ he is right to be fair. I have read some of your suggestions for 2.2 and you clearly havent thought a few of them through. Like your AOE suggestions recently. But anyway. I hope that the DEVs listen to a few more people across a broader spectrum this time around.
Melee not possible in open world fights?
bullshit!
stay tuned.
William Antrim
08-02-13, 14:43
Player skill does not mean a class is viable.
Powerpunsh
08-02-13, 14:56
Firemobbing works fine for me. The KI feels better terrorraptor's grims spawn if you are get too close what they didnt much in the past. But as always hide behind or at a hill and everythings fine to avoid damage. :)
DigestiveBiscui
08-02-13, 16:09
Also, there are some pretty clued up.people on this forum who have some pretty decent ideas. You guys are working around the clock on this game which is great, but there are some of us who would gladly offer you a helping hand free of charge.
Also, there are some pretty clued up.people on this forum who have some pretty decent ideas. You guys are working around the clock on this game which is great, but there are some of us who would gladly offer you a helping hand free of charge.
They don't accept help from outsiders
Dribble Joy
08-02-13, 18:39
DJ he is right to be fair. I have read some of your suggestions for 2.2 and you clearly havent thought a few of them through. Like your AOE suggestions recently. But anyway. I hope that the DEVs listen to a few more people across a broader spectrum this time around.
Which ones? I can't even remember what I last said about AoE if I'm honest.
As for the pistol subject, while rifles clearly have a massive advantage in many areas, against firemobs and WBs they are almost equal and that's from someone with a rifle spy and HC tank on terra. The actual range on many pistols is not as bad as you would think (obviously nothing like rifle range, but not 10 yards) and most zones containing most mobs have enough cover.
That's not to say I think things are fine as they are, that's not what I meant, more that things aren't as bad as some make out.
What to do about it is tricky though. Do you simply boost pistol PvE dmg? Does that only give them an advantage in caves since they still won't bother with the wastes? Not to mention possibly segregating the two sub-classes. Or maybe add techs to cave mobs, which benefits everyone, not just pistollers.
Not let's stop throwing around this add tech parts to cave mobs bs which is popping up in multiple threads, the reason things are rare and economy still exists is because they are rare. It's not hard to farm a load of techs if you want to, adding more drops is not the answer to anything.
DigestiveBiscui
08-02-13, 18:56
They don't accept help from outsiders
MJS's favourite quote
Dribble Joy
08-02-13, 19:13
Not let's stop throwing around this add tech parts to cave mobs bs which is popping up in multiple threads, the reason things are rare and economy still exists is because they are rare. It's not hard to farm a load of techs if you want to, adding more drops is not the answer to anything.
Oh I agree. Remember when regant mobs dropped them? 'WTS unressed, 10k each.'
Not let's stop throwing around this add tech parts to cave mobs bs which is popping up in multiple threads, the reason things are rare and economy still exists is because they are rare. It's not hard to farm a load of techs if you want to, adding more drops is not the answer to anything.
What about adding/increasing the drop rate of tech on mobs such as Y reps and DoY Guardians that are scattered about the place.
how about making regents bigger so the whole server can level there since all of the caves are completely fucked
William Antrim
09-02-13, 01:30
Doy Tunnels is the only tunnel you can get techs from. There should be more imo.
P.s you said that AOE should be more accurate DJ, which would kill pvp.
Dribble Joy
09-02-13, 01:40
I do think it should be more accurate (especially in 3rd person). I also think the dmg per hit of AoE should be toned down.
Being able to hit a mob or player for equal dmg/tl as a single shot weapon without 'aiming' is unbalanced.
As for PvE, as someone mentioned, a maximum of a given number of 'targets' should be hit by AoE, otherwise single shot weapons will always have a massive disadvantage.
Doc Holliday
09-02-13, 04:31
I actually like the idea of more techs dropping in cave mobs. However it should be a challenge to get them like it is in doys or it should be limited to a boss mob and make it 1-3 techs if its a 100/100+ mob like with firemobs.
I do think it should be more accurate (especially in 3rd person). I also think the dmg per hit of AoE should be toned down.
Being able to hit a mob or player for equal dmg/tl as a single shot weapon without 'aiming' is unbalanced.
As for PvE, as someone mentioned, a maximum of a given number of 'targets' should be hit by AoE, otherwise single shot weapons will always have a massive disadvantage.
Theres no reason an explosion shouldnt hurt as much as a bullet/ plasma hit, there has to be some reality in it all.
I seriously dont like the idea of AOE hitting a "limited number of targets", however they shouldnt work through walls.
Not let's stop throwing around this add tech parts to cave mobs bs which is popping up in multiple threads, the reason things are rare and economy still exists is because they are rare. It's not hard to farm a load of techs if you want to, adding more drops is not the answer to anything.
Oh I agree. Remember when regant mobs dropped them? 'WTS unressed, 10k each.'
Actually it is the answer, but obviously the drop rate would have to be tweaked back on firemobs/decayed, etc.
The areas need to be used more, unless they were to split the pool into types and have certain types of mobs drop certain types of rares, there arent many options left.
I like the idea of all cave mobs 90/90 or over having a chance to drop techs, (even in leveling areas like el farid/chaos, however in those areas the droprate should be very poor) simply so people arent basically forced to use a rhino to level at a decent pace while still getting techs.
Dribble Joy
09-02-13, 14:11
Well regants needs to be fixed first anyway. It's supposed to be the second highest level PvE area in the game (after MC5) yet you see /20s in there.
Nightmare does need to drop more too, it's almost pointless killing him other than to stop his crappy fire stack.
Actually it is the answer, but obviously the drop rate would have to be tweaked back on firemobs/decayed, etc.
The areas need to be used more, unless they were to split the pool into types and have certain types of mobs drop certain types of rares, there arent many options left.
I like the idea of all cave mobs 90/90 or over having a chance to drop techs, (even in leveling areas like el farid/chaos, however in those areas the droprate should be very poor) simply so people arent basically forced to use a rhino to level at a decent pace while still getting techs.
How is more tech's dropping the answer to anything, chaos caves, regents, el farrid are all heavily populated zones at all times of the day and this is without them dropping techs. Lack of techs is not a problem and neither is population of the zones, so what is it exactly you're fixing with your suggestion? The fact you can level and get techs at the same time to save you actually making effort to farm, well thanks for your suggestion lets keep that on the back burner.
No one is forced to use a rhino to level at a decent pace while still getting techs, and to be honest these things should be exclusive anyway, rares are built for when you are high to capped that is why there are no techs in levelling area. The first part of your character is getting to cap, the second part is equipping it. Think about the game and not just you're lazy notion of how easy you want it to be.
I did the Freedom Fight quest this weekend (kill 35 doomies and 50 warbots in less than 8 hours).
I managed to do it on myself on my Rifle PE (I only used my PPU like 3 times because of death mainly due to PvP).
You can range the WB, you can range Grims and doomies with a rifle.
You can still use the hill at your advantage. (I can show anyone who need how to kill a grim with Pistol, same for WB).
On the other hand, the damages done by Grim Persy are way too important, same for terrormauler and hoopers. WB do a little bit too much damages (specially when they are on blue laser frenzy) but that's not awful.
I like the new patch (PvE side).
William Antrim
11-02-13, 20:04
I suggested the AOE changes.
DigestiveBiscui
11-02-13, 20:21
I suggested the AOE changes.
Have a cookie
I suggested the AOE changes.
I still think that AOE not being able to shoot through walls would have been a better solution :P
William Antrim
12-02-13, 09:16
You might have a point there yavi.
Doc Holliday
12-02-13, 20:01
You might have a point there yavi.
2nded
I did the Freedom Fight quest this weekend (kill 35 doomies and 50 warbots in less than 8 hours).
I managed to do it on myself on my Rifle PE (I only used my PPU like 3 times because of death mainly due to PvP).
You can range the WB, you can range Grims and doomies with a rifle.
You can still use the hill at your advantage. (I can show anyone who need how to kill a grim with Pistol, same for WB).
On the other hand, the damages done by Grim Persy are way too important, same for terrormauler and hoopers. WB do a little bit too much damages (specially when they are on blue laser frenzy) but that's not awful.
I like the new patch (PvE side).
Yeah, terramauler's and hoppers account for 90% of my deaths when I'm trying to hunt fire mobs. 3 stacks of fire even with full godswish armor pretty much means you're screwed.
The 90/90 raptors are the same when they spawn tons of mobs that also stack fire damage.
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