View Full Version : how to get rid of pesky LEd droners
spoiler ahead, fellow neocronians. here is how to deal with LE droners in important places like MC5, regants, caves. and to some extent this also applies to LEd whatsoevers "stealing" your favourite loot.
so what happens if you gather a small team of hardened fighters plus one or two supporters and enter the area of interest, only to find an LE droner in a corner, emptying his (or her) drones' ammo capacity onto your favourite NPC victims? shoot first, ask question later, thats whats happening. but, but, how can you hurt and kill someone wearing an LE (to some of us the root of all evil)? You cant. And you dont even need to.
All you need to do is concentrate your firepower on all the innocent little mobs around you, and soon you'll notice that your team is killing faster than that single LE guy. Even mobs he started firing at first will be finished by your team pretty much faster, so you will gain the lootright on all and everything. And all the precious loot. And Mr. LE droner guy will get nothing. The magic word here is "competition", and if you do a better job than the competition, you will profit.
But, but, whats up when theres 5 LE droners instead of one? Then you'll meet the dark side of competition, you just have been outperformed and need to go somewhere else, do something else. Luckily theres so much to do in Neocron.
Have a happy and productive year, everyone!
Hm... another question is: how to get rid of those pesky "damn all over (LE) droners" ???
The droner is of of the FEW details which make Neocron really different from all the endless "gather a group and make a boss instance over 2 hours" games. The droner is a hightech char type which is rare to find in other games. And he is a "REMOTE FIGHT CHARACTER", you realize the difference to playing a Black Knight, which is spanking the creature eye-to-eye ?
And, finally, of course - the droner is one of the few possibilities to make a certain style of solo-ing. Solo playing is of interest of a special type aof gamer, almost mostly pve oriented gamers with a strong RP side.
On this way now the nerf of the droner is nearly complete. Drones are all the time blinded by high freq energy weapons (plasma etcx). Whats the sense of this ??? Droners have problems to make quick movements, so they are not everytime "group-compatible". Droners often have problems of proper looting. Only El Farid now seems to be the rest of higher level caves. MC5 and obviously the Labs are possible anymore or much to high effort. He is worthless in PVP.
In my opinion we are on the way to eliminate this type out of the game or his only funtcion is to make a quicker level-up fpr spys which will evolve to trade skillers.
Sad, very sad, the game will not getting more attractive with this.
And : Why is a droner a bad player if occuping a cave and a group of other char types mixed are the "good guys " ???
Neocron's caves were always a common property with normal ways of competition and/ or grouping ?!?
Bad thing if threads like this are supposed to "brainpooling" for making Neocron better. Its more like "discriminating" especially of players which are using a LE-droner.
Think about it.....
Reed
William Antrim
02-01-13, 17:51
How is this anything other than flame bait? It is not constructive.... at best it is veiled sarcasm and appears to be designed to cause a giant argument about the LE.
If it is tongue in cheek then forgive me for missing something but it doesn't actually satisfy any of the criteria it sets out to "fix". Everyone understands the mechanic of loot rights by now. I am pretty sure of that.
How does this counter the LE'd runners logging out at the back of the Chaos Caves while a team legitimately tries to clear to the Queen only to find some LE'd tank/droner just standing there in an empty room, having killed, looted and cleared said room. How does that help anyone when he/she just goes "reset?" (so I can do the same thing over and over again?).
Your post is laden with sarcasm Torg and it is a little bit immature to be honest. I expected better.
The brainport is here for suggestions, change request or feature proposal that are relevant to the developement or governance of Neocron. I'm afraid I cannot find any such thing in the opening post.
-moved to Community Talk
[thx mokoi.]
tl;dr: there is no problem with LEd droners, or LE in general, just opinions.
why? because, like i described in the OP, any LE droner can be outdamaged by a team of non-LEds. so there is no need to limit access of LEd chars to any area.
to make it clear: i like drones. drones are a) warm and wonderful and b) entertaining, once you keep from grinding. drones should get more attention, imho.
How does this counter the LE'd runners logging out at the back of the Chaos Caves while a team legitimately tries to clear to the Queen only to find some LE'd tank/droner just standing there in an empty room, having killed, looted and cleared said room. How does that help anyone when he/she just goes "reset?" (so I can do the same thing over and over again?).
interesting point, william. i think its unrelated to the LE discussion in general. logging out in the back/bossroom of a cave and relogging for maximum profit could be prevented, if anyone logged out for any reason could be sent to the main respawn point (i.e. near the entry) instead of respawning where he/she left. but thats up to our devs.
Ok Torg, William,
the discussion maybe useless, because: if anybody blocks a location, it's forbidden and you have the right to call a GM. If parties encounter in a cave or something, then regardless whether one is LE'd of not - this will be solved - so or so :)
My opinion is: we have such a lot of balancing issues, a lot of them are not concerning droners. PVE, vehicles, specific char type issues - and the luck, that a new team is willing to deal them.
The droner was adressed a lot last time - i think he's nerfed to much, but this is my opinion. Now we should not forget that there are many other problems open und unsolved.
Greetz, Reed
[F6]Knight
03-01-13, 08:34
How does this counter the LE'd runners logging out at the back of the Chaos Caves while a team legitimately tries to clear to the Queen only to find some LE'd tank/droner just standing there in an empty room, having killed, looted and cleared said room.
Long ago this was considered to be "against the spirit of the game". People would get warnings and eventually a ban if they kept doing it.
Relogging at the entrance of a cave / dungeon was never an issue.
However, I don't know if the current dev team still thinks about it this way.
Knight;2198717']Long ago this was considered to be "against the spirit of the game". People would get warnings and eventually a ban if they kept doing it.
Relogging at the entrance of a cave / dungeon was never an issue.
However, I don't know if the current dev team still thinks about it this way.
Provided that no other rules are being breached in the process, it is only a problem when it hinders other players, i.e. when it becomes an issue of blocking the zone.
Even when not blocking respawn on purpose, you will find that it can be hard to coordinate the zone reset with a number of people about. When this happens, we ask you to play along and exit the zone in conjunction with everyone else.
Forget My Name
03-01-13, 16:14
Un LE'd can block, and do block, dungeons as well because LE players can't stop them either. Quit being a twat and making this seem like this is an LE problem when this is piss poor dungeon design programming from 1999.
Droners are a solo class, and without it I wouldn't play Neocron. The tiny population means I can't play most of the end game content because when there is 60 people online, I can't get anything done. If it weren't for dual logging my droner to help my tank get woc equipment, I'd be logged into guild wars 2 out of the famed neocron solo boredom we all face.
Lastly, all you pvpers depend on tradeskillers to play this game, and you can thank LE Droners for that as well. Once again the devs in 1999 figured players shouldn't be able to level tradeskilling alone. And once again, in guild wars 2, I can max my character's level without ever leaving the crafting area.
Thank your local Droner, because without him, Neocron would be a ghost town.
There is so much wrong with the above post it makes me question your sanity, intelligence, social abilities and whether you actually play the game
Un LE'd can block, and do block, dungeons as well because LE players can't stop them either. Quit being a twat and making this seem like this is an LE problem when this is piss poor dungeon design programming from 1999.
do you play the game? Un LE'd can be killed and hence unblocked - LE'd can do whatever they want without much fear of repercussion
Droners are a solo class, and without it I wouldn't play Neocron. The tiny population means I can't play most of the end game content because when there is 60 people online, I can't get anything done. If it weren't for dual logging my droner to help my tank get woc equipment, I'd be logged into guild wars 2 out of the famed neocron solo boredom we all face.
I manage to find teams to do nearly everything I want to do - I have also managed to build up enough of a friend base to be able to do lots of the higher end combat without solo droning - I suggest you read an Idiots guide to socialising and then you might exponentially increase your enjoyment of the game
Lastly, all you pvpers depend on tradeskillers to play this game, and you can thank LE Droners for that as well. Once again the devs in 1999 figured players shouldn't be able to level tradeskilling alone. And once again, in guild wars 2, I can max my character's level without ever leaving the crafting area.
I would actually say as a 'pvper' and having 'pvping' mates its best to be self sufficient when it comes to these things - and to be quite frank you are showing up how little of the game you've experienced as its quicker and more enjoyable to level a tradeskiller is to spec repair and vhc to drive a Rhino as youre flying up to a high level and will pick up a few techs on the way
Thank your local Droner, because without him, Neocron would be a ghost town.
I'm not going to even bother replying to this bit of idiocy
William Antrim
03-01-13, 17:11
Un LE'd can block, and do block, dungeons as well because LE players can't stop them either. Quit being a twat.....
Pretty much switched off at this point. Load said it best. Sounds like you might want to go play some Guild Wars because truthfully the Neocron forums do not need this kind of bs.
I have 2 tradeskillers of my own. I levelled both of them solo while you were whining that droners got the nerf a few months ago. Yeah both levelled up rhinoing and I do tradeskill for other people. I collected everything that I need for my guys in a few hours a week of playing, mostly because I had friends in the game who helped me.
If you have a non-le'd guy blocking a dungeon then just kill him. Not having an LE in actually makes you think about how you interact with people socially in this game because yes you can make enemies quite easily. They can also come and kill you when they want to. Having the LE in means you can hide behind that and talk this kind of BS to others without any fear of repercussions.
My point is very valid. It is annoying when you do run a legitimate cave team with a group of friends/random people you just met and you're all having fun together and then you get to the end and some guy has already killed the boss. It is cheap. It is also more often than not LE wearing individuals doing it. Not every LE player is bad I realise, after all I have an LE in some of my guys. If it wasn't I would have killed them before now instead of making a thread on the forum.
p.s what end game content needs over 60 people to do it? All of the end game content I have experienced so far has been done in a team of 3-4 people maximum. If you cant find 3-4 other guys to play with then the fault is with you, not the game.
Wind your neck in bro.
Un LE'd can block, and do block, dungeons as well because LE players can't stop them either. Quit being a twat and making this seem like this is an LE problem when this is piss poor dungeon design programming from 1999.
Droners are a solo class, and without it I wouldn't play Neocron. The tiny population means I can't play most of the end game content because when there is 60 people online, I can't get anything done. If it weren't for dual logging my droner to help my tank get woc equipment, I'd be logged into guild wars 2 out of the famed neocron solo boredom we all face.
Lastly, all you pvpers depend on tradeskillers to play this game, and you can thank LE Droners for that as well. Once again the devs in 1999 figured players shouldn't be able to level tradeskilling alone. And once again, in guild wars 2, I can max my character's level without ever leaving the crafting area.
Thank your local Droner, because without him, Neocron would be a ghost town.
I completely agree with this. All this other crap people are spouting is simply their bias against LE'd people. Poor Dungeon mechanics is to blame for that whole reset garbage. This game would be a ghost town without LE'd people period. Drones are the means for which 99% of the spys in this game level. Just be thankful they didn't do the drone nerf before titan was released, I seriously doubt we would have any population otherwise.
There is so much wrong with the above post it makes me question your sanity, intelligence, social abilities and whether you actually play the game
do you play the game? Un LE'd can be killed and hence unblocked - LE'd can do whatever they want without much fear of repercussion
I manage to find teams to do nearly everything I want to do - I have also managed to build up enough of a friend base to be able to do lots of the higher end combat without solo droning - I suggest you read an Idiots guide to socialising and then you might exponentially increase your enjoyment of the game
I would actually say as a 'pvper' and having 'pvping' mates its best to be self sufficient when it comes to these things - and to be quite frank you are showing up how little of the game you've experienced as its quicker and more enjoyable to level a tradeskiller is to spec repair and vhc to drive a Rhino as youre flying up to a high level and will pick up a few techs on the way
I'm not going to even bother replying to this bit of idiocy
Hm....the thread isn't very intelligent , i guess..... nevertheless:
What an arrogant speech you are doing here ???
Solo playing or not - that shouldn't be the question. Neocron was all the time in a fair good balance between both types of Players - solo and team ones. But Forget My Name was very right: A lot of players -ESPECIALLY the pvp-only-ones DEPENDS heavily on tradeskillers. And the INEDEPENDENT tradeskillers (= which belong NOT to one of the OOC-peskying OP-fight clans ^^) are able and willing to supply ALL of the other players with items & rares. Most of the clan-own tradeskillers will not do this, right.
Yoru are talking ina very arrogant manner about "socialising guides" ? Who are you that you dare to do this in a open forum like this ???
@Forget My Name: I agree comletely with you (as often :)). I am very curious about the MC5 Imp (and maybe the WOC disc) issue. How wil the market evolve ? Will we see an equipment for the big clans only ?^^
Reed
William Antrim
03-01-13, 18:17
Its a 4 slot server dude. The "pvp only" clans have their own tradeskillers. I have a clan, a very long and storied one and my tradeskillers are unclanned and I go out of my way to help new guys in the game. Always have, always will. I have all of the rares I need to pvp now as well and have started giving away/selling the shitty ones to new guys levelling. The server has only been up 3-4 months and already even as a casual player I have everything that I need once over. This game would not die without LE'd tradeskillers. It has lasted the best part of 12 years with most people not having LE's in for the majority of that time. It has only been the new start in recent times where people have had the LE back in their heads and knowing the game inside out they can now do all the things they did on Terra on here, this time with the LE in.
I completely agree with this. All this other crap people are spouting is simply their bias against LE'd people. Poor Dungeon mechanics is to blame for that whole reset garbage. This game would be a ghost town without LE'd people period. Drones are the means for which 99% of the spys in this game level. Just be thankful they didn't do the drone nerf before titan was released, I seriously doubt we would have any population otherwise.
Are you aiming that at me? Because I am the only other person posting here. No neither of my tradeskillers have ever levelled with drones. I took both of them rhinoing and then sat and did the boring as hell research and construct missions in my downtime. "ALL the crap?" Read my post perhaps? I have LE guys and non-le guys. The crap I am spouting IS ACTUALLY happening therefore it is a statement of fact. I have witnessed it with my own eyes. People WILL do this whether they have an LE in or not. I am quite happy to concur on that point. The thing is, when they dont have the LE in then you can kill them. See the difference? No I do not need to resort to petty flames to get mine across. I can sit down calmly and confidently and collect my thoughts, rationalise them into a valid argument and put forth said argument in a manner I would hope that others can understand.
RogerRamjet
03-01-13, 18:17
My point is very valid. It is annoying when you do run a legitimate cave team with a group of friends/random people you just met and you're all having fun together and then you get to the end and some guy has already killed the boss. It is cheap.
I just love clearing a bat run to find my exceptionally boring task has no ultimate reward as the Queen is long dead and gone.
A quick remodel of the caves could solve the problem. Or a few extra barrels placed by Devs.
Are you aiming that at me? Because I am the only other person posting here. No neither of my tradeskillers have ever levelled with drones. I took both of them rhinoing and then sat and did the boring as hell research and construct missions in my downtime.
I wasn't aiming that at you William but rather at all the anti-LE sentiment that has popped up recently on these forums. You may very well be apart of the one percent that doesn't level spys with drones. There's no need to get angry, I honestly meant no offense. The very title of this thread speaks volumes to the over all tone of this subject. It's getting a bit stupid at this point.
William Antrim
04-01-13, 03:52
Im not angry in the slightest. Just seemed out of character thats all. The reason there is any anti-le sentiment is due to actions like that which I described. It is the abuse of the mechanism (though this is a matter of debate as to whether it actually constitutes abuse I guess) which makes people dislike the LE. As a protection method to help noobs in the game, I am ALL for it. 100%.
The problem is people who hide behind it calling out others and calling them twats in this thread that irks me some.
As has already been pointed out, the LE isn't the problem (nor are the people really as there will always be dicks). It's the zone reset that has issues. I think once the "Boss" has been defeated there should be a timed reset of everything in the zone, including runners. Two mins to loot everything and all runners positions (logged in or otherwise) gets reset to the beginning and all mobs are re-spawned.
As has already been pointed out, the LE isn't the problem (nor are the people really as there will always be dicks).
LE is definitely the problem - dicks in leveling areas with no LE will get pk'd more often than not - the LE makes some players exponentially more cuntish as there are no fears of repercussions.
Cave wise because at the moment i guess the focus is on chaos caves just fill the back room on the left with boxes and barrels at the top level and this should stop the relogging.
funnily enough I have no issue with people sprinting through the cave to try to get to the back because at least they face some sort of difficulty and penalty but with a few boxes and barrels in the aforementioned place this will probably stop too
theres a saying from ye olde times "MMOs would be great fun if there werent all those idiots". the problem isnt the LE, its the anti-social wannabe psychopaths. ganking un-LEd noobs and not leaving a cave even when being asked kindly are two sides of the same thing. we should implement anti-anti-social measures instead... but wait: being bad (in very tight limits) is part of the game. killing allieds, hacking belts (and stealing valuable drop), frauding people by pretending to be a trader guy, thats all part of the game. and thats a good thing, because games are also there to let us do things not ok at all in meatspace.
so my position here: if anyone treats you badly in Neocron (within game rules), deal with it and dont demand a serious change of game rules. reason: you dont want to be looked upon as a crybaby.
exploitable spots are somewhat easy to remove, have been removed in the past and will be dealt with in the future. no reason to get upset.
i think its also important to accept theres different playstyles, as can be learned from this thread, and others.
theres a saying from ye olde times "MMOs would be great fun if there werent all those idiots". the problem isnt the LE, its the anti-social wannabe psychopaths. ganking un-LEd noobs and not leaving a cave even when being asked kindly are two sides of the same thing. we should implement anti-anti-social measures instead... but wait: being bad (in very tight limits) is part of the game. killing allieds, hacking belts (and stealing valuable drop), frauding people by pretending to be a trader guy, thats all part of the game. and thats a good thing, because games are also there to let us do things not ok at all in meatspace.
for me the scamming, pking noobs, allied attacking is all part of playing neocron - the whole cyberpunk post apocalyptic not knowing who to trust never knowing if someone is going to come along and kill you allied or not is part of the reason i play, the risk and the adrenaline. from an RP perspective allied killing is not great and with the numbers on the server isnt really needed.
blocking a cave because your an asshole is on a whole other level to this and with the LE they can do this without any risk of repercussion - I remember once back in NC1 i purposefully blocked the CRP chaos cave from respawning with a few mates without LE in to try and get some people in to pk us - sure its not great (we did RP a cave tax) but then about 8 or 9 people came and we ended up having an epic fight after which we left. the LE kills this all together
Whining about crap is in gamers blood I think like an STD from playing too many games haha
blocking a cave because your an asshole is on a whole other level to this and with the LE they can do this without any risk of repercussion - I remember once back in NC1 i purposefully blocked the CRP chaos cave from respawning with a few mates without LE in to try and get some people in to pk us - sure its not great (we did RP a cave tax) but then about 8 or 9 people came and we ended up having an epic fight after which we left. the LE kills this all together
There is some risk of repercussion because it is against the game rules to block a cave, you could potentially be banned for it. Caves are not there for you and your mates to PK in, in fact they are specifically designed to not pvp in. 9 times out of 10 the real dicks in this game are un-LE'd looking to ruin people's leveling experience, as you stated above thats exactly what you and your mates like to do. You say the LE "kills" this experience for you lol
As I said before, this is getting stupid...
how about people who use their LE to exploit the gamemechanics (for example blocking caves), get their LE forcibly removed? Solves the problem of people being dicks with it, and still leaves in all the advantages of the LE for people who just want to pve. excessive use of it would be subject to normal exploit penalties.
There is some risk of repercussion because it is against the game rules to block a cave, you could potentially be banned for it. Caves are not there for you and your mates to PK in, in fact they are specifically designed to not pvp in. 9 times out of 10 the real dicks in this game are un-LE'd looking to ruin people's leveling experience
if they are specifically designed not to pvp in why is there no SL loss in regants? and Chaos caves AFAIK?
Blocking is one thing - getting people to fight you before you leave is something else
I agree with Biglines comment - sound like a great idea
Controversial opinion : Drop the fucking LE from the game all together. This is Neocron, not a fantasy PVE server.
At the very least, make them significantly less competitive. Non-LE'd players put themselves at greater risk in zones like Mc5, as not only do they have to look out for ridiculously high-powered mobs, but also roaming gangs of violent nomads.
As it stands (and has for years), LE'd players gain significant advantages, which in my opinion is positively reinforcing cowardice (and in many cases, griefing) behaviour.
My final comment on this; When MJS was in charge of the game, the LE gave an XP disadvantage and couldn't be put back in after xx/30. What does that tell you about his vision for Neocron?
Controversial opinion : Drop the fucking LE from the game all together. This is Neocron, not a fantasy PVE server.
At the very least, make them significantly less competitive. Non-LE'd players put themselves at greater risk in zones like Mc5, as not only do they have to look out for ridiculously high-powered mobs, but also roaming gangs of violent nomads.
As it stands (and has for years), LE'd players gain significant advantages, which in my opinion is positively reinforcing cowardice (and in many cases, griefing) behaviour.
My final comment on this; When MJS was in charge of the game, the LE gave an XP disadvantage and couldn't be put back in after xx/30. What does that tell you about his vision for Neocron?
It tells me a stroy of FAILURE!
Why do you think MJS isn't there anymore and no game concept like this or what you describe is successful on the market ?
It's a perversion of the truth to show LE'd players as "Griefers". It's vice versa the idiots of after-work-gankers, which complete ignore any RP content of the game and ganking erverything which is not "at 3 up at a tree", which are the most significant problem of this very, very competitive game.
And the second big mistake of people like you is to believe that in a (non-fantasy) dark post-apokalyptic atmosphere 100% anarchy would work and could be a system for socialisation. It would not and go on the street and free kill everyone isn't realistic at all. It is sad to see permanently people try to ruin this interesting game via changing it in a special form of Counter Strike or so :)
This thread provoke a very destructive discussion with a lot of trolling, it was said enough that blocking a cave (LE or not) is a bannable act and one could call a GM, which really works fine atm. The discussion about a LE does not lead to a better game.
Reed
When MJS was in charge of the game, the LE gave an XP disadvantage and couldn't be put back in after xx/30.not true, the disadvantage was removed few weeks after NC1 retail, while the L30-reimplanting-thing was introduced much later. would you prefer to play on neptune, loki?
William Antrim
07-01-13, 14:42
The LE disadvantage was not removed until the middle of 2004. A year into retail. Or even longer. P.s the reason MJS is not the head of the company any more has nothing to do with the LE. It is a myriad of other things and I would estimate that 90% of them are not anything to do with anything that was changed IN the game.
... ridiculously high-powered mobs, ....
While I disagree with removing the LE completely, the point I quoted is the main reason I as a spy chose droning as my method for leveling.
It's boring as hell and I hate it, but considering it seems almost every mob I would be leveling off can kill me in 2-4 hits, droning is the only viable way to level solo (when playing time is very limited due to RL).
Now if we add on to this, removing your LE while leveling via droning then, good luck. As your meat sack will be a free for all.
I would rather have some kind of malus on the LE than remove it.
As I've said many times before mob danage across the board really needs addressing. As does weapon damage.
I'm hoping these are next on the devs list.
Chuck Norris
07-01-13, 15:10
people are trying to combine several issues into one; blaming the LE is not the problem here... enough of the rhetoric and hyperbole imho
enough of the rhetoric and hyperbole imho
playing with the dictionary were you?
EDIT- My post is almost as pointless as the above
Doc Holliday
07-01-13, 16:30
The LE disadvantage was not removed until the middle of 2003.
this. it was middle of 2003 i believe. i started in jan. coulda been around the time i joined the forum in march. maybe earlier. definitely not 2004.
William Antrim
07-01-13, 18:35
people are trying to combine several issues into one; blaming the LE is not the problem here... enough of the rhetoric and hyperbole imho
With LE in the title it has to have something to do with it.
Okay, I raged.
I'm not asking for Neptune though.
I am asking for Neocron to be a world where every action *can* have a reaction. The simple fact is, right now, LE'd characters can treat the game like it's their own personal playground, with absolutely no repercussions whatsoever. Of course, many do.
As it stands right now, there's absolutely no reason to take out your LE until you're fully geared up. Some of the best and most memorable fights I ever had in Neocron were actually between low levelled characters around the MB bunker.
Maybe the LE shouldn't be removed; I just wish it was 1/4 people using the LE to level, and not 3/4.
having done the OP, let me change the thread title to
"how to get rid of the LE"
but before we remove this little implant, lets remember it does have a function: to keep the pvpers and the non-pvpers separate. as much as a dedicated pvp-er would be outraged if forced to act peacefully, as much a non-pvp-er would be mad for being shot unwantedly.
of course there are different ways of solving the problem. neptune *cough* and others. but would you rather want a dedicated non-pvp-server (including a limited clan-war-function), with all traders, rp-players, explorers, peaceful casual gamers moving to that place? rather not, i suppose.
the LE was in fact invented to have both groups on one server, benefitting each other. but what about the tales of early jupiter days, where no one wore an LE and wandered to any place without fear of being shot at without warning? when the Twilight Guardian used to declare cycrow being a combat zone before starting to shoot at reeza's despicable minions? when "red" runners where greeted in the endless wastes, and stopped not for murder, but a nice little chat? when OP wars were fought with large armies made up of different clans and clanless runners, for great justice? (you couldnt AoE in caves either, for everyone 'd been dead within seconds)
no wonder those two MMO cultures have ongoing propblems, and forum wars to fight: you either shoot at anything that moves, or you shoot at nothing except mutually agreed on before (exception: NPCs). now if we all would vote on either position, would you honor the outcome?
i believe some wouldnt, so we still need the LE. could you think of other measures to guarantee the absence of non consensual pvp? unless some of you comes up with a solution, we have to answer the above question with a simple
"no way, we cant".
William Antrim
08-01-13, 18:08
Not sure what point you are trying to make Torg. I think this thread has had the usefulness squeezed out of it.
Deus Ex Machina
08-01-13, 19:35
of course there are different ways of solving the problem. neptune *cough* and others. but would you rather want a dedicated non-pvp-server (including a limited clan-war-function), with all traders, rp-players, explorers, peaceful casual gamers moving to that place? rather not, i suppose.Since this point comes up so often, I will just comment it here as it came up again:
RP Players are not LE Players. At least not all of them. In my opinion a real RP Player has to take it out since he plays a role that CAN BE SHOT. Not written to death. But thats just my view ;-)
Traders can also be non LE too, on 4 slots there are less of them of course, but I still found some.
I am RP Player, Explorer, and don't shoot on everything thats red just because its visible in my scope. But still I take my LE out as soon as it can be done.
Thats what I loved and love in Neocron: RP with PvP, since it belongs together. And I absolutly hate that (I think through new MMORPGS) introduced trend to say RPers are Non PvPers. And always when the LE comes up the RP Players are thrown in with that.
Hmm sorry for babbling, but that really ticks me off :-)
[...] but what about the tales of early jupiter days, where no one wore an LE and wandered to any place without fear of being shot at without warning? when the Twilight Guardian used to declare cycrow being a combat zone before starting to shoot at reeza's despicable minions? when "red" runners where greeted in the endless wastes, and stopped not for murder, but a nice little chat? when OP wars were fought with large armies made up of different clans and clanless runners, for great justice? [...]
I think that comes down to two things at large:
1) Roleplaying the faction you are in - were your faction may also make deals with those that are red from design and other things
2) Accountability. If your behaviour falls back unto you, it will shape your behaviour. If you can do things without repercussions bad things comes up. Thats the way of the world. (Thats why I think scamming by LE wearers should not be allowed, but thats something different)
Accountability today is low, Roleplaying too.
Chuck Norris
08-01-13, 23:14
This conversation only exsits because of trolls, why else is this even an issue? Think about it, what possible advantage is it to force people to take LE's out or not have them at all. BTW i love how this only came up only after a few certian trolls cap'd out on Titan before everyone else...lol
This conversation only exsits because of trolls, why else is this even an issue? Think about it, what possible advantage is it to force people to take LE's out or not have them at all. BTW i love how this only came up only after a few certian trolls cap'd out on Titan before everyone else...lol
Not sure which 'trolls' you're referring to with your underhanded piss-ant remark, but I don't even have a capped character, let alone WoC & gear.
A forum by definition is a medium to exchange ideas and opinions, is it not? With that in mind, my opinion is, and always has been that the LE doesn't do this game any favours. I have formed this opinion from my experiences in game, from which, I can honestly say that LE'd players cause me more problems than non-LE'd players.
I'd rather be ganked than be griefed by an LE player parking on top of my loot, or blocking a spawn. Why? Because I can deal with the former one way or another, but not with the latter. I'm certain I'm not alone in that opinion.
Chuck Norris
09-01-13, 00:23
You took that rather personally, even though nothing was directed at you
Love your monolithic view point, the abuse goes both ways you know this dont play dumb. Although I guess if anyone disagrees with you on "A forum by definition is a medium to exchange ideas and opinions, is it not?" they are underhanded piss-ant remarks.... get over yourself man
I agree with LOki, i cant do anything against an LE runner and it pisses me off. Especially because most of the time the LEd runner is not a new player but an old player knowing exactly what he's doing : griefing with impunity.
I hated how the other day this LE runner/driver was outrepping my damage on his rhino, while un-LEd gunner shot at me. I was pissed and logged off the damn game because of it.
I also hated this LEd droner threats to block Regent bossroom reset because I was taking all the XP and wouldnt team him.
Also hate all the LEd runners goin AFK in CRP and then the mob spawn bugs and you cant reset the damn place.
Here's a quick fix :
Make the damn chip loose condition like all others, and make hunting-grounds like warzones with no SL, item, and FS loss.
Here's a quick fix :
Make the damn chip loose condition like all others, and make hunting-grounds like warzones with no SL, item, and FS loss.
:lol:
Yeah, because that will fix problems with LE'd people.
Chuck Norris
09-01-13, 00:46
I agree with LOki, i cant do anything against an LE runner and it pisses me off. Especially because most of the time the LEd runner is not a new player but an old player knowing exactly what he's doing : griefing with impunity.
I hated how the other day this LE runner/driver was outrepping my damage on his rhino, while un-LEd gunner shot at me. I was pissed and logged off the damn game because of it.
I also hated this LEd droner threats to block Regent bossroom reset because I was taking all the XP and wouldnt team him.
Also hate all the LEd runners goin AFK in CRP and then the mob spawn bugs and you cant reset the damn place.
Here's a quick fix :
Make the damn chip loose condition like all others, and make hunting-grounds like warzones with no SL, item, and FS loss.
Here is a prime example of what im talking about lmfao
or hes just trolling his ass off here
I agree with LOki, i cant do anything against an LE runner and it pisses me off. Especially because most of the time the LEd runner is not a new player but an old player knowing exactly what he's doing : griefing with impunity.
I hated how the other day this LE runner/driver was outrepping my damage on his rhino, while un-LEd gunner shot at me. I was pissed and logged off the damn game because of it.
I also hated this LEd droner threats to block Regent bossroom reset because I was taking all the XP and wouldnt team him.
Also hate all the LEd runners goin AFK in CRP and then the mob spawn bugs and you cant reset the damn place.
Here's a quick fix :
Make the damn chip loose condition like all others, and make hunting-grounds like warzones with no SL, item, and FS loss.
How about have a hefty malus on the LE of -25% exp and money gained from mobs, but can be re-poked at any level. (as someone suggested maybe make it so you need an npc to poke it and it has a cool down)
Makes it so it is still possible to level with your LE in if you really wanted to, but somewhat impractical as it is hampering your progress.
As it can be re-poked when you are high level then those who are trade skill characters can still use it to feel safe when traveling about the city helping others (providing a service).
William Antrim
09-01-13, 02:34
I am in favour of this Netphreak.
Doc Holliday
09-01-13, 06:06
You took that rather personally, even though nothing was directed at you
Love your monolithic view point, the abuse goes both ways you know this dont play dumb. Although I guess if anyone disagrees with you on "A forum by definition is a medium to exchange ideas and opinions, is it not?" they are underhanded piss-ant remarks.... get over yourself man
i think the point was you directed it at somebody and these loose accusations of yours are what annoys some of the people on the forum who do actually try and discuss things without being derided by childish barbs.
I have nothing to add on the main subject of the thread however. Its pointless. The suggestions which wont harm anyone and ultimately allow player choice in terms of retaining the LE or not have already been discussed many times.
William Antrim
09-01-13, 15:08
I just want to know what the hell a monolithic view point is.... that one had me chuckling.
RogerRamjet
09-01-13, 16:50
I just want to know what the hell a monolithic view point is.... that one had me chuckling.
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