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Izeo
24-11-12, 22:31
In another thread someone mentioned it's very hard to find the rare you want, since the rares pool has increased a lot since NC1.

Would it be a good idea to divide the rare pool up so that different types of enemies drop different types of rares? It wouldn't be so strict as "Firemobs only drop APU spells", since, that would be terrible for tanks who hunt firemobs. But what if each tech-dropping 'group' (i.e. warbots, or, firemobs, or, hoverships) only drop techs within 2, 3, maybe 4 certain categories, instead of every single category?

So for example if firemobs drop 3 tech types, I dunno... APU, T-C cannons, and low-tech pistols. So, a tank hunting firemobs would have a 1/3 chance of finding a T-C cannon part, which is a better chance than the current 1/12 chance of even finding the type of part he wants, let alone the actual weapon he wants, and then the actual part on that weapon.

Dropout
24-11-12, 22:35
Then they would have to up the droprate a great deal for all mobs that Arent firemobs.. And possibly even remove the hacking req from some mobs..
Its not a bad idea, I just think that it would require a lot of Work from the volunteer team.

Izeo
24-11-12, 22:53
Oh, I didn't actually know that firemobs had a higher drop rate, I kinda thought it was all equal. : (

As for the hacking part, good point, although, I kinda feel that mobs that need to be hacked should automatically have a slightly higher drop rate than tech-dropping mobs (of the same rank) that don't require hacking. So that there would be a trade-off of actually needing HCK yourself or needing a hacker friend, but the chance of a reward is slightly better to even that out.

Dribble Joy
24-11-12, 23:25
Actually I think the drop rates are equal by level across all tech dropping mobs. A Doomreaper drops less than a warbot for example (afaik).

The problem is that firemobs are very easy to kill and don't require hacking. You also don't get lvl110+ WBs in the wastes, unlike with firemobs, which guarantee at least one tech.

Mokoi
24-11-12, 23:58
mobs that need to be hacked should automatically have a slightly higher drop rate than tech-dropping mobs (of the same rank) that don't require hacking.

makes perfect sense to me.



Would it be a good idea to divide the rare pool up so that different types of enemies drop different types of rares?

I (personally) think this would be a bad idea. Anything that fosters player interaction is a plus in my book - so is trading tech parts.

[Disclaimer: this is solely my personal opinion and should not be mistaken for an official stance on this matter]

Izeo
25-11-12, 00:48
I (personally) think this would be a bad idea. Anything that fosters player interaction is a plus in my book - so is trading tech parts.
I will admit, I had not even thought of that. Perhaps it wouldn't be too bad if the 'part types' weren't divided in a way that was so class-specific.

Like, if warbots dropped low-tech rifles, high-tech rifles, and misc tech parts (obliterator & drone parts), then that would be amazing as hell for spies, but it would hinder player interaction as you said, since spies would have all they need from hunting WBs and wouldn't really need to trade other players,
but maybe, for example, "t-c rifles, low-tech cannons, and apu spells" drop from one mob - there is no way the person hunting it would need all three, so 2/3's of his techs he would want to trade ..

.. well, then there's the factor of having alts, and those alts would need those parts .. bahh . Maybe it is a bad idea.

Faid
25-11-12, 05:24
Or they should just remove all the garbage weapons that are currently mucking up the rare pool. The problem I have is that 90% of the techs dropped in game are garbage. I have 12 vein ripper comps ffs :p If those pointless weapons weren't in the rare pool things would feel a lot better across the board regarding techs.

Chuck Norris
25-11-12, 05:27
ya like melee, drones, obliterator, cpus all hacknet items or something it will make people use hacknet more and get some of the SHITE clogging up the parts pool out

Doc Holliday
25-11-12, 06:59
Actually I think the drop rates are equal by level across all tech dropping mobs. A Doomreaper drops less than a warbot for example (afaik).

The problem is that firemobs are very easy to kill and don't require hacking. You also don't get lvl110+ WBs in the wastes, unlike with firemobs, which guarantee at least one tech.


:lol: at the first line. Doom reapers drop more than warbots????? everyone whinges about shitty warbot drops and threads have started on the forum in regard. I actually read the date on your post to see if this was an old thread or something.

second thing. ALL mobs over 100 should guarantee drops imo. not just firemobs. This is currently not the case.

third thing. GIGANTIC warbots should spawn randomly and own everyone who comes near them. especially the noobs at the bunker in j_01 ;) ok im kidding but a Juggernaught spawn out in the wastes would be pretty boss. i think that would be fun to fight against.

Totally agree with Mokoi on the hacking/non hacking thing. You spec the skill you want the rewards and it aint just belts that should be a reward.

Disagree on splitting up parts in the rare pool but i would like to see a better distribution of parts as it does still seem that certain parts drop more frequent than others for gun sets so you end up with a shit load of parts for one type of gun and are still missing the last one continuously.

Example of right now i have all the parts for a healing light except for the comp. I have multiples of each other 1 and i have a grand total of 11 frames.

Another example. Been firemobbing ALOT for techs and have had lots and lots and ressed them all and found various cpu parts for the rare chips. NEVER EVER found a frame for the special science cpu in the firemob parts. i found 2 on titan. both came from the doy tunnels.

I will collect proper data next time i go tech farming as asked for in the previous thread on this topic but i do still think the loot table is borked and there is little chance of farming certain parts from certain mobs. we have done tests and have tried different things out but never collated any hard data. this is all purely from experience.

Torg
25-11-12, 15:12
terrible idea, doc. 'scuse me. i, personally, wouldnt mind getting more tech drop from warbots, tho.

and yes, there are 110 and 120 tech mobs out there in the wastes: hoverbots. if only their dead corpses would land properly.

William Antrim
25-11-12, 15:35
I think more mobs should drop rares. Perhaps have some mote high end poison dealers too in a few zones. To make a difference to the fire mobs. Other than that I'm with the guys against this idea.

Doc Holliday
25-11-12, 22:20
terrible idea, doc.

Which part? the juggernaught or the 100/100 dropping rares?

Izeo
25-11-12, 23:52
second thing. ALL mobs over 100 should guarantee drops imo. not just firemobs. This is currently not the case.

I agree in a way. Warbots drop techs and aren't they like... 55/55 or something pretty low?

I would prefer that mobs/tech-dropping is balanced like:
- Some mobs drop techs. The higher rank, the better the chances. (it is already like this I assume)
- Tech-dropping mobs that need to be hacked should give better chances at dropping techs.
- Maybe some other high-rank mobs can drop techs as well, however...
- ..If high-rank mobs DO NOT drop techs, couldn't they award a bit more XP, to compensate for not having techs?

Ascension
26-11-12, 00:38
War bots are 80/80 if I recall?

Torg
26-11-12, 10:34
Which part? the juggernaught or the 100/100 dropping rares?
no, the idea of dividing rare drop by mob type. i sort of like the big-warbot-idea, but there's hoverbots already.

Doc Holliday
26-11-12, 12:11
no, the idea of dividing rare drop by mob type. i sort of like the big-warbot-idea, but there's hoverbots already.

right. yes definitely a big NO from me to splitting up the pool. equal chance for all parts to drop on all mobs is the only way it should be. otherwise the grind would be monotonous and levelling spots would be camped like crazy. The big warbot idea was a half joke idea but it could be kinda cool. Hovers are under-appreciated which is why i would like to see their drops boosted. I actually enjoy farming them for a change from time to time.

William Antrim
26-11-12, 13:33
I would actually love to see some Juggernaught Warbots wandering around OUTSIDE the facility. One or two could escape don't you think?

Izeo
26-11-12, 13:48
Could someone list all the mobs that drop techs? Not including Mc5 techs.

Warbots
Firemobs
Desert Horrors
Y-Replicants (confirm?)
Hoverbots

anything else?

Chuck Norris
26-11-12, 14:33
gentoxic nightmare, regent, DoY super soldiers, and the other bots in the lower DoY tunnels

Doc Holliday
26-11-12, 16:02
gentoxic nightmare, regent, DoY super soldiers, and the other bots in the lower DoY tunnels

level 2 and 3 and all cave "bosses" on ocassion will drop techs. level 3 is more prevalent than level 2 however.

Izeo not all hovers drop techs and as far as i know Ys dont. also the security bots and guards at mc5 drop regular rare tech parts.

William Antrim
26-11-12, 17:26
Y replicants do not drop techs.


As far as I know the Hovers SHOULD all drop techs as they start at 80/80 I believe. The Hovereye is the lowest I think but I am not sure as never hunted them regularly.

Not all firemobs drop rares either do not forget. Only Grim Persi/Chaser Terror Raptor and Leaper and Doomreapers do.

Proxy1
29-11-12, 15:37
Removing the less wanted ones would make hunting less interesting. The randomness is what makes it fun.

William Antrim
29-11-12, 15:45
Removing the less wanted ones would make hunting less interesting. The randomness is what makes it fun.

I am gonna stick my neck out and say I think you are probably the only person who loves getting melee rares....

Drachenpaladin
29-11-12, 16:00
If we divide rare drop by mob type i'd make it a bit more plausible (for my standard) - but that WOULD indeed mean that fire mobs drop fire spells, swamp mobs poison spells, doy bots tech stuff and so on.

Mobs just need a proper balancing to make every mob type equally attractive

William Antrim
29-11-12, 16:31
If we divide rare drop by mob type i'd make it a bit more plausible (for my standard) - but that WOULD indeed mean that fire mobs drop fire spells, swamp mobs poison spells, doy bots tech stuff and so on.

Then you will have to remove hacking requirements from said mobs because the only ones that 90% of runners will farm is doy bots. This will also give tanks the shaft as they will need to have a hacker with them to get their cs parts etc etc. Noone would want to farm Firemobs any more once the server got populated with all of the hundreds of Fire Apoc spells....

I am completely against this idea. I like the idea of farming a variety of mobs for my techs. I do not like having to get 12 Winding Argument comps in order to get a hull or 7 cs comps to just get one addtech.

I do not want mobs to be split according to type because that would completely ruin all the individuality of levelling in certain areas and would funnel people into having to grind on a certain type of mob ALL the way through to get their rares. The best part of PvE in NC currently is the fact that you can go to lots of different places to get your rares and it doesnt get boring too fast.

If anything there should be MORE mobs dropping rares but DEFINITELY not by type. I would like to see some of the copbots in Gaia mine drop rares to be honest.

Drachenpaladin
29-11-12, 17:06
Then you will have to remove hacking requirements from said mobs because the only ones that 90% of runners will farm is doy bots. This will also give tanks the shaft as they will need to have a hacker with them to get their cs parts etc etc. Noone would want to farm Firemobs any more once the server got populated with all of the hundreds of Fire Apoc spells....

Only because at the moment there is shift towards those specific type of mobs and thus i said its necessary to make every type of mobs attractive. And if mobs only drop apoc parts you will have to farm them for quite a while to get the whole server saturated.

The requirement of hacking is an incentive for teamwork, and not necessary all tech or heavy mobs must require hacking.
And leveling is always grind, no matter if on one spot or if you change your spot every day.

And btw. people ARE already grinding on one special type of mob for their stuff so whats there to loose, ppl hunt almost exclusively grims.

With putting Laser & Plasma weapons, for example, into Gaia to the Cop Bots & Fusion and Ray Gun into Doy Bots there would already be MUCH more incentive to change the leveling/farming spot.

William Antrim
29-11-12, 17:44
If people are only grinding on grims then that part needs to be addressed as a single issue.

Drachen I can truly see what you are trying to accomplish but I feel that it sounds like drastic changes are being suggested when possibly only minor ones are needed.

It would take no time at all to find all of the Fire Apoc parts one would need if ALL firemobs dropped was those and Holy Firestorm parts.

The grind is only the grind when it is the same thing over and over and over again. If you have the variety of levelling (ie not only Grims as you already mentioned) then the grind will not be so bad.

My previous post was only to point out that some of your ideas could possibly bring more problems to PvE. I am definitely NOT against making more rares drop in more places and spreading out the PvE love to some of the less used places. Personally I think that the midlevel swamp caves ought to have a chance to drop some rares. I would love to see midlevel runners farming them for their parts as much as the "openworld" areas like they do currently.

Anything to get more people out into the wastelands exploring the sights is a good thing in my opinion. I am not saying your opinions and ideas are bad. I am merely pointing out some issues that may have been overlooked?

The XP gain from teaming should in fact be incentive enough in my opinion. If runners want to hunt solo they should be given that option, but if they wish to team then they should be given that choice just the same. I think the XP fix is more than enough for for achieving this aim. I would prefer things on that score to stay as they are!

Drachenpaladin
29-11-12, 18:23
Drachen I can truly see what you are trying to accomplish but I feel that it sounds like drastic changes are being suggested when possibly only minor ones are needed.
Given, i'd want to revampt the rares anyway, like with reducing the overall number of parts and by bringing hackers into the crafting by making rares require BPs that are dropped from HN Mobs... a different story.


It would take no time at all to find all of the Fire Apoc parts one would need if ALL firemobs dropped was those and Holy Firestorm parts.

Sure, if the drop rate stays and the Fire parts take the place of every other drop. But if the adjusted drop rate matches the probability of finding a Apoc part with the current drop rate then i'd say everything is fine. (Unless ofc the initial drop frequency is already too high...)

If it takes you 100 Grims to get 1 Fire techpart now (fictional) it should still take you 100 Grims to find 1 with the adjusted drop rate. Only difference would be that you wouldn't find 50 other "garbage" techparts you are not looking for.

Taking the other parts out of the pool without a raising of the drop frequency for the remaining parts should prevent a flood of certain rares.

Ivan Eres
29-11-12, 18:30
I do not support dividing the rare parts by mob type because it does not make much sense to me.

I think that it would be more important to even out the rare parts distribution, so that we can really get every part, instead of the situation now.

William Antrim
29-11-12, 18:50
I do not support dividing the rare parts by mob type because it does not make much sense to me.

I think that it would be more important to even out the rare parts distribution, so that we can really get every part, instead of the situation now.


This is a much simpler and more achievable aim.

By your recommendation Drachen we would be grinding for weeks by the sounds of it. If you implemented those changes we would nerf researchers as their ultimate requirement is for IDing our rares. If we knew that said rares were only ever likely to be one of maybe 2 or 3 spells then we wouldnt need them so much either. I prefer the "reward" system we have currently and the drop rate to the suggestions you are making above.

The garbage parts you are talking about are used as trades for said parts. This means again, more player interaction. If melee parts were worth something and melee worked as a viable weapon type you would find that someone somewhere would ACTUALLY want these "garbage" parts and suddenly they would become useful.

Imagine being a Monk and finding an ATP of CS in your parts? Knowing full well you dont need it there are people who would literally give you a full Fire Apoc in exchange for this! This should not have to be the case. I am with Ivan Eres on this one.

P.s the hacknet suggestion is just awful too. I dont want things to take even longer. That just adds a whole other can of worms into an already pretty large problem.

Drachenpaladin
29-11-12, 18:53
P.s the hacknet suggestion is just awful too. I dont want things to take even longer. That just adds a whole other can of worms into an already pretty large problem.

Oh i'm sure we will even find a spot for the recycler in that chain :p

And i don't see why researcher would become less important. Before you can use a part you need it ressed, there is no change to that. You can already preselect "good" parts from "bad" parts by their stacking if you properly maintain your cabinets.

William Antrim
29-11-12, 18:56
Yeah they should make a set of rares FOR hackneters dropped IN hacknet. Not just the Ionic weapons used in the real world as it is now. We have the mods yeah but I would like to see some code parts drop into equipment you can use in hacknet. Even a line of HN only implants would be good.