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Torg
18-11-12, 11:36
http://i.imgur.com/CUUWG.jpg

tech haven once was the homeplace of Fallen Angels, but now its deserted. what happened? TH took a blow with nc 2.0 bdoy, when all FA activity moved to the dome. but when the dome became obsolete, FA HQ moved back to TH, starter Apps went to OZ station and TH now still is a mere shadow of its former glory.

while both the Military Base and the Canyon are fully functional, TH needs some improvements:

- move starter apps back to TH, leaving the jones quest locations in NC, so it would be slightly harder for FA starters (same for TG and CM)
- bring in shops for all goods needed, theres plenty of space in central TH 2. fists would supply armour and weapons like in the canyon, the crytons and medi range of stuff is already there (except datcubes!), theres even empty space like pictured above for furniture and flowers.

i believe these changes could be performed in neglegible work time, but would add greatly to the atmosphere of neocron.

Haxxor
18-11-12, 15:45
Agree :)

Powerpunsh
18-11-12, 15:50
Im sure they are gonna do this. They already added the old Drone Race Track so i suppose traders comes next. :)

Britney
18-11-12, 15:52
Yeah i think starter locations should be in TH and TG canyon for corresponding factions again, there used to be a warning for new players that those were "hardcore" to start off with.

Doc Holliday
18-11-12, 18:35
no one plays fa. that would help for starters.

Druid311
18-11-12, 22:27
Can we have the OLD FA clan apts back? I love Tech Haven. I remember how awesome it was to explore for the first time.

Torg
18-11-12, 22:36
and a few all buyers please, wasteland type punks would do.

William Antrim
19-11-12, 00:35
Sounds good to me.

Chuck Norris
19-11-12, 03:31
They just need to make GR zone a safe zone and add some ammo vendors, Seems like they want it closed atm

William Antrim
19-11-12, 11:41
no safe zones thanks. We have enough of those already. We have enough le'd peeps in here already too. I prefer the fighting and being ganked of old nc to be honest. I have got into fights (and lost miserably!) loads over the last weekend and I loved it.



More pvp please, not less.


More tech haven raids too please!!

Doc Holliday
19-11-12, 13:14
no safe zones thanks. We have enough of those already. We have enough le'd peeps in here already too. I prefer the fighting and being ganked of old nc to be honest. I have got into fights (and lost miserably!) loads over the last weekend and I loved it.



More pvp please, not less.


More tech haven raids too please!!

Thats venturing in to an LE discussion right there. Good and bad, Pros and Cons etc. Agreed no safe zones though. Fighting in TH could be interesting if there were some FA runners.

Dont want to sound like im cross posting in another thread but in the GR rules change thread i did touch on this idea. If the gr rules are abandoned there is less incentive to all join the winning team. This is very evident with the sheer amount of BD runners/clans there are on titan currently. Some people will always join the winning side LE or not. Changing gr rules spreads people out more across factions as they wouldnt need to join the winning faction but more the one that suits their preferences. Be a faction because you want to be it and believe in its style and ideas rather than because you can genrep to crp when u feel like it.

LE malus would also encourage them to remove it. 2 ideas that would foster more pvp. They do however require their own seperate discussion in a seperate thread but its too thoughts that immediately popped up from reading this one.

Sorry for the OT. not trying to hijack the thread.

Torg
19-11-12, 13:45
ok, so either make TH all safezones, or remove the soft pr0n music. right?

Trivaldi
19-11-12, 14:33
What kind of services would you like to see in TechHaven? In the past there was obviously a significant shopping presence which is no longer there. What kind of things (staying in the realms of content which exists elsewhere) would draw you toward TechHaven should it receive some loving?

No promises but, as always, I am keen to see what you guys think.

Ascension
19-11-12, 15:16
Why not implement a tradeskiller bonus in one of the zones for friendlies of FA? Or would that detract from taking ops?

I'd say not, as who takes an op for the bonus?

This fits well with the tech haven theme too!

Mr. Kassad
19-11-12, 15:31
That's the problem on my side:

What drew me to TH in the past (around 2004/2005. Yes, this forum acc is a new one) were not the NPC traders but the Player-Traders. The DOY-Player-Traders to be precise.
In the past those were not able to walk around in Plaza 1 as if this was the most normal thing in the world. So the only reasonable safe place to meet up with enemy faction traders was TH. It served as some kind of neutral trading ground for everyone. It was kinda taboo to do this as an CA player (RP-wise) but in most cases it was better to be frowned on than being ambushed in a fake trade agreement in the Wastelands.

So I think the reasons for the death of TH go deeper than just NPC-Traders.
It's about safe-zones like in Plaza 1. It's about the fact that COPBOTs don't care about Anti-NC faction players. It's about the fact that COPBOTs took over security in Pepper Park. It's about COPBOTs having no freeze and low damage nowadays.
This list could be expanded with a lot more facts.

So fixing TH is not about adding one feature but about re-introducing old game mechanics that made it necessary in the first place.
Faction relations are kinda broken nowadays. Apart from epics and FSM it is really unimportant to whom you belong. By re-introducing old advantages and disadvantages of being in a certain faction (like being attacked by guards in certain areas other than HQs) you would not only fix TH but a lot more about Neocron in general.

I hope this was not too confusing because of my bad English.

Ascension
19-11-12, 16:07
That's the problem on my side:

What drew me to TH in the past (around 2004/2005. Yes, this forum acc is a new one) were not the NPC traders but the Player-Traders. The DOY-Player-Traders to be precise.
In the past those were not able to walk around in Plaza 1 as if this was the most normal thing in the world. So the only reasonable safe place to meet up with enemy faction traders was TH. It served as some kind of neutral trading ground for everyone. It was kinda taboo to do this as an CA player (RP-wise) but in most cases it was better to be frowned on than being ambushed in a fake trade agreement in the Wastelands.

So I think the reasons for the death of TH go deeper than just NPC-Traders.
It's about safe-zones like in Plaza 1. It's about the fact that COPBOTs don't care about Anti-NC faction players. It's about the fact that COPBOTs took over security in Pepper Park. It's about COPBOTs having no freeze and low damage nowadays.
This list could be expanded with a lot more facts.

So fixing TH is not about adding one feature but about re-introducing old game mechanics that made it necessary in the first place.
Faction relations are kinda broken nowadays. Apart from epics and FSM it is really unimportant to whom you belong. By re-introducing old advantages and disadvantages of being in a certain faction (like being attacked by guards in certain areas other than HQs) you would not only fix TH but a lot more about Neocron in general.

I hope this was not too confusing because of my bad English.

Amazing post, this is how the game should be again! As if a revolt faction such as TG can stroll around p1 plotting to overthrow the government.

Restore factions, patrols etc to as it was in NC1. Make TG hav apps in canyon, FA in TH etc.

Izeo
19-11-12, 17:01
I like the idea of bringing back the old TH -- in NC1 my main (well the only one I played) was a Fallen Angel and I loved having TH as my home. I loved the apartments too, so much.

Regarding moving the apartments, however.. this is just an idea but..

It might not be totally possible to hard-code this anyway, but, if TH starter location is indeed moved back to Tech Haven, would it be very difficult to write one "Mr. Jones type quest" specific to Tech Haven? Just one quest -- no matter what profession you choose, you get the same quest. There could be a techy guy or robo-looking-NPC (like a Cyberguard or Sentinel that talks to you, in the same place - in your apartment elevator). The quest is always the same for any profession, BUT, at the end of the quest he says something like, "Thank you for playing your part etc etc, the Fallen Angels greatly appreciate your assistance etc etc... This should help you in your chosen profession." and he gives you the same exact reward(s) you'd get from Mr. Jones, specific to your profession. So if you picked Driver you'd still get the same Quad Key and if you picked Researcher you'd still get the TL-90 research tool.

The only catch with this is the mission would have to be a bit balanced for difficulty, i.e., if you pick Field Medic you might have a hard time killing 4 NPCs with guns that spawn.

Pestilence
19-11-12, 19:23
That's the problem on my side:

What drew me to TH in the past (around 2004/2005. Yes, this forum acc is a new one) were not the NPC traders but the Player-Traders. The DOY-Player-Traders to be precise.
In the past those were not able to walk around in Plaza 1 as if this was the most normal thing in the world. So the only reasonable safe place to meet up with enemy faction traders was TH. It served as some kind of neutral trading ground for everyone. It was kinda taboo to do this as an CA player (RP-wise) but in most cases it was better to be frowned on than being ambushed in a fake trade agreement in the Wastelands.

So I think the reasons for the death of TH go deeper than just NPC-Traders.
It's about safe-zones like in Plaza 1. It's about the fact that COPBOTs don't care about Anti-NC faction players. It's about the fact that COPBOTs took over security in Pepper Park. It's about COPBOTs having no freeze and low damage nowadays.
This list could be expanded with a lot more facts.

So fixing TH is not about adding one feature but about re-introducing old game mechanics that made it necessary in the first place.
Faction relations are kinda broken nowadays. Apart from epics and FSM it is really unimportant to whom you belong. By re-introducing old advantages and disadvantages of being in a certain faction (like being attacked by guards in certain areas other than HQs) you would not only fix TH but a lot more about Neocron in general.

I hope this was not too confusing because of my bad English.

This would be sooooo amazing. I'd love to see that again. FA in TH, TG in Canyon, and Neocron City as it used to be! Pretty please :)

William Antrim
19-11-12, 20:09
I agree with the above but to make a simpler request could we please just have tech angels and boobs and guns moved to there. Or at the very least tech angels alone. That would be a start.

Torg
19-11-12, 21:54
... could we please just have tech angels ...

*ding*

William, your wish has been granted. go take a look.

(tbh that happened in 2002, and hasnt changed ever since. all the crytons stuff is sold in TH, except datacubes).

and, uh, i apologize for the cheap joke, but your tech-angels-request just asked for it.

William Antrim
19-11-12, 22:45
We didnt have tech angels till 2005 and the advent of nc2. Before that we used to have Crytons Tech Tools in Tech Haven and it was a much nicer place back then.

As for the cheap joke..... I will ignore it. I am not sure anyone laughed.

Izeo
20-11-12, 00:45
back in my day, we had Cryton's and HEWs everywhere! And for monks, we had to walk all the way from Medicare to Yakarma's, all 10 feet, and we liked it! wait what

Doc Holliday
20-11-12, 03:02
That's the problem on my side:

What drew me to TH in the past (around 2004/2005. Yes, this forum acc is a new one) were not the NPC traders but the Player-Traders. The DOY-Player-Traders to be precise.
In the past those were not able to walk around in Plaza 1 as if this was the most normal thing in the world. So the only reasonable safe place to meet up with enemy faction traders was TH. It served as some kind of neutral trading ground for everyone. It was kinda taboo to do this as an CA player (RP-wise) but in most cases it was better to be frowned on than being ambushed in a fake trade agreement in the Wastelands.

So I think the reasons for the death of TH go deeper than just NPC-Traders.
It's about safe-zones like in Plaza 1. It's about the fact that COPBOTs don't care about Anti-NC faction players. It's about the fact that COPBOTs took over security in Pepper Park. It's about COPBOTs having no freeze and low damage nowadays.
This list could be expanded with a lot more facts.

So fixing TH is not about adding one feature but about re-introducing old game mechanics that made it necessary in the first place.
Faction relations are kinda broken nowadays. Apart from epics and FSM it is really unimportant to whom you belong. By re-introducing old advantages and disadvantages of being in a certain faction (like being attacked by guards in certain areas other than HQs) you would not only fix TH but a lot more about Neocron in general.

I hope this was not too confusing because of my bad English.



Um. tech haven was the trade hub because doy people couldnt go to plaza. That was 2005-6 onwards at the advent of nc2 and is what made TH so popular. The whole red vs blue fiasco.

cake and eat it comes to mind here guys be warned. TH wont go back to that level of popularity without a huge reason to go there in the first place. Or FA runners of which there are very few. Its not the cool faction any more.

Izeo
20-11-12, 04:00
Its not the cool faction any more.
I still think it's cool ;( ... but TH would have to lose the elevator music to have any chance of being a cool faction again lol. Think it used to have the generic ambient/creepy music.

Mr. Kassad
20-11-12, 07:19
I am not for RED vs Blue either!
I like the complex faction sympathy system like it is.

But it is still really stupid that total anti CA faction are strolling in front of COPBOTs handing out Voice of Resistance Newspapers.
I wish it was like in the past where it made sense that some of the factions are placed in Plaza/Viarosso and some are placed in PP and OZ while the neutral factions played their own dirty game with everyone.

Nowadays nobody cares if you are in an enemy faction and throws money at you in Plaza 1 instead of meeting up in secret to make illegal trade agreements.

IanKett
21-11-12, 13:17
Starter apartments in Techhaven for FA, alot of shopping options, A GR located at the shops.

DR REED
21-11-12, 17:17
I am not for RED vs Blue either!
I like the complex faction sympathy system like it is.

I don't. Tbh i am missing DOY and this polarization Red vs. Blue. Maybe because i am a real NC 2.1 DOY baby, started playing end of 2005.

The new faction system is somewhat diffuse for me, often people do not know who is their natural enemy if they are not heavy in roleplay. The old Doy vs. NC made clear front lines and cohesion between the factions was much greater than now.

And in the midth of this Techhaven was a bridgehead for DOY on their way to NC and for the same time a neutral place for trading and talking.

Trading and talking: I know that the issue of save zones vs. pvp is a difficult one, but who believes that traders are standing around in a pvp-zone, trading & building and like to be killed every 15 minutes ? Would be some sort of masochism or so ? :)

I think that the meeting atmosphere in TH near the GRs does ultimately depend strong of the presence of a safe zone. Its not that much a question of the offered services or how quick copbots react. If game is populated more and more the number of pk-only player goes up, too. And these players give a shit to any RP content or soul light. If they have Kill No. 15 for that evening they quit game and go to bed, its that simple :)

Apart from that i agree totally with the post of Mr. Kassad:


Originally Posted by Mr. Kassad
That's the problem on my side:

What drew me to TH in the past (around 2004/2005. Yes, this forum acc is a new one) were not the NPC traders but the Player-Traders. The DOY-Player-Traders to be precise.
In the past those were not able to walk around in Plaza 1 as if this was the most normal thing in the world. So the only reasonable safe place to meet up with enemy faction traders was TH. It served as some kind of neutral trading ground for everyone. It was kinda taboo to do this as an CA player (RP-wise) but in most cases it was better to be frowned on than being ambushed in a fake trade agreement in the Wastelands.

So I think the reasons for the death of TH go deeper than just NPC-Traders.
It's about safe-zones like in Plaza 1. It's about the fact that COPBOTs don't care about Anti-NC faction players. It's about the fact that COPBOTs took over security in Pepper Park. It's about COPBOTs having no freeze and low damage nowadays.
This list could be expanded with a lot more facts.

William Antrim
21-11-12, 18:17
I am afraid they tried the no safezone bit in the beginning of NC2. Plaza 1 was not safe. It didnt last long like that. The red vs blue thing would make the game 10x more empty than it currently feels that is the problem. Bear in mind they need to be open to new players coming in. At present plaza 1 looks like its former self with servers hopping and people trading all over the place. If you removed that advertising for nc and made it (the hub of activity) 3-4 zones away from the noobs what are they going to think when they come to play for the first time?

I remember playing wow during the Lich King phase and I saw a moderate amount of people around Orgrimmar and none in the other capital cities. Then one day I got the quest to go to Dalaran and having heard about this mystical place I was instantly amazed. I saw the real high end content.

Having trade channels hopping is all well and good but seeing the real people lets people think that the game is alive.

I would equate this to P1 and Tech Haven in nc. The problem is there would hardly be anyone in P1 for the noobs to ask questions of and get pokes/other tradeskilling from. Sure these people could come to P1 but if theyre not naturally there already who would know to ask them to come there? To a noob a perfectly legitimate place to come to could be any zone in the game.

Plaza 1 is a centre of gravity for NC. It is the lifeblood that is NC. Without that you don't have an NC. It needs population. It needs smack talk and it needs the traders. If you put em back in Tech Haven it will suck.

We had P1 before we had Tech Haven. Sure make TH a more friendly accessible place. Hell even put some good mid level levelling areas in there - same for TG and encourage people to go into them. You could even put Cyclopses into the TG cave if you wanted and make it like the Bunker at MB for all I care but please DO NOT mess with Plaza 1.


Thank you.

Disturbed21
21-11-12, 19:17
When I came back and created a FA character I was dissapointed that my starter apt was not in TH...loved the atomosphere there back in the day and really can't understand why CM starts out at MB but FA/TG start in OZ....IMO put them back to their respective homes and add a warning upon character creation for new players (if it isn't already there).

That being said, with low-pop game, I'm in agreement that tradeskillers should not be split between TH and P1, leave that alone please. Hard enough for people to get ahold of tradeskillers during certain timezones as is. Just need to make it a little easier to start out FA and TG buy adding any missing vendors and Jones type missions (CM needs those too I believe).

Mr. Kassad
21-11-12, 22:09
Well, I don't know on what server you guys played but on Mars Plaza 1 was VERY safe even though it was a non-safe-zone for a long time.
Once in a while (like 3 times a week) some red guys showed up but it was nothing too serious because of the badass copbots and lots of PVP runners that fought them back pretty quickly. Trade chars were totally safe inside the Medicare. I think the worst casualties on trade-char side were two Runners. Maybe 4 or 5 Fighter on another occasion. But those examples were like rare. I mean REALLY rare. 80% - 90% of the P1 raids were total failures with someone trying to snipe a Runner (failing horribly most of the times) and then trying to hide until they got killed by the copbots or other runners.

EDIT: But I have to agree that this needs a certain amount of players with the correct mindset. I wonder if these preconditions are met at the current situation.

William Antrim
22-11-12, 01:04
I played on Terra and if you didnt have your le in you got shot, regardless of faction/rank or anything else in the game. It was open season for everyone on everyone else.


So yeah it might have been all civilized on mars but terra was a different story. Plaza 1 looked like the OK Corral some days.

Mr. Kassad
22-11-12, 11:26
Well that sounds like no fun at all. Interesting how different the situation on every server was like.
I am willing to scratch the "P1 non-safezone part" even though I think it was an important reason for TH but I stay with all other suggestions I made in the other posts. Something has to happen faction wise and it has to matter what faction you are in in your daily Neocron life. Being shot by guards when you move into enemy territory is just one detail of many.

DR REED
22-11-12, 12:36
I played on Terra and if you didnt have your le in you got shot, regardless of faction/rank or anything else in the game. It was open season for everyone on everyone else.


So yeah it might have been all civilized on mars but terra was a different story. Plaza 1 looked like the OK Corral some days.

Absolutely right! Whatever you had in NC1, since NC2 there is i suppose on all servers more gank/pvp than rp. There is/was no difference between Mars and Terra. A safezone should be necessary to ensure trading at certain places.

kane
30-11-12, 03:50
This is a must to bring back TH days! Also please add a bit of a story to it too. Don't just do it over night ;)

Deus Ex Machina
30-11-12, 04:18
What Tech Haven had, was Fallen Angels. And many of those had - and have - a strong feeling for their faction. Thats what made Tech Haven a place were players cooperated, and when they decided to cooperate to make a save trade hub for everyone - they came. Those that wanted to trade, those that wanted to see, and those that wanted to disturb.
It made nice action all around, I still remember the time I first shot at some annoyer with a TL < 30 Weapon and was proud to be apart.

But for that to come back, it would mean to take something away in other places, as was mentioned already - as long as everyone can trade on plaza 1, there is no reason to trade elsewhere.
I am FA to the core, I love Tech Haven, but I am not sure taking something away that is norm now is the right thing to do. On the other hand it could be, but who knows.

So in reality only one thing can be done for Tech Haven, I think - let the Angels live (and start) there, and let it be a place were one can live - meaning you can get the most necessary supplies (Ammunitions, Medical Supplies, Basic Implants, Basic Weapons & Armor, Leveling Places) there. [I can't remember at the moment which of those are already there, and I can't go and look it up ;-)]
The Rest is up to the Angels, they either make it or they go to Plaza 1 - their choice.

P.S. - One possibility for Plaza 1 to be nonsave but still quite protected would be for it having the right sector dedication - e.g. Like a dungeon sector, no matter who you kill you loose soullight, but depending who exactly it is more or less (But that would only work if getting SL up is not a trivila matter). But thats just some lose thought, haven't really thought it through.

kane
30-11-12, 04:43
Yeah I do agree with you that it might take away some the players from plaza 1 or no one would bother using TH. But then again maybe it should be our job to bring in new players. The game is free. Its our jobs as the players to go find new players and bring them in but also teach them.

There is a lot of people out there looking for a game like NC and char 2 shits about what the graphics look like. We just need to find them!

löffel
30-11-12, 11:17
TH is boring no matter what, would love to see a populated canyon though. :)

All thats needed is to remove safezones everywhere, and let copbots/guards in general shoot at everything red. that should keep TG and PP factions mostly away from plaza in general, but raiding stays possible.

William Antrim
30-11-12, 12:35
TH is boring no matter what, would love to see a populated canyon though. :)

All thats needed is to remove safezones everywhere, and let copbots/guards in general shoot at everything red. that should keep TG and PP factions mostly away from plaza in general, but raiding stays possible.

Tried that already. The community cried out over it and P1 stayed safe again. All this suggestion would do is give people even more incentive to keep the LE in.

kane
30-11-12, 12:52
Yup exactly will. If we bring back few more sz. Then more will take their me out food sure. Right now the first min this game is PvP.

Mr. Kassad
01-12-12, 16:09
There is/was no difference between Mars and Terra. A safezone should be necessary to ensure trading at certain places.

It definitely was not. We had tons of AFK runners on Mars chillin'. Nothing happened to them.
I really don't know what might have happened towards the end of the first Neocron 2 era but around 2004-2006 Plaza 1 on Mars was one of the safest "no-safezone" in the game.

I agree that the current playerbase is nowhere near as to maintain a civilized P1 but in the past it worked great and I don't want this perversion of the past to stand uncommented.

Dropout
01-12-12, 16:31
It definitely was not. We had tons of AFK runners on Mars chillin'. Nothing happened to them.
I really don't know what might have happened towards the end of the first Neocron 2 era but around 2004-2006 Plaza 1 on Mars was one of the safest "no-safezone" in the game.

I agree that the current playerbase is nowhere near as to maintain a civilized P1 but in the past it worked great and I don't want this perversion of the past to stand uncommented.

Purely a guess, but I would say that it was probably because of low population. You kill what you can get to kill. Tradeskiller or pure pvp character - doesnt matter.
I have personally killed a TON of tradeskillers.. If I have been online for more than one hour without seeing anyone to kill, I will kill anyone above */30..
You know.. More than an hour without being an asshole.. Thats just a problem for me :p

Faid
01-12-12, 18:20
It definitely was not. We had tons of AFK runners on Mars chillin'. Nothing happened to them.
I really don't know what might have happened towards the end of the first Neocron 2 era but around 2004-2006 Plaza 1 on Mars was one of the safest "no-safezone" in the game.

I agree that the current playerbase is nowhere near as to maintain a civilized P1 but in the past it worked great and I don't want this perversion of the past to stand uncommented.

Anytime you get large numbers of people together in a non-safezone you will eventually get pvp to break out, it's just the nature of the NC playerbase. Back when NC2 first started on Terra and p1 was unsafe, there was pvp everywhere, there was absolutely no way in hell you could go afk. Hell, we even had a huge clan war between us and an allied faction, and it only occured because we were all in the same area and it occured to us that we could shoot our weapons. Regardless of the SL loss, we used to fight on the steps of CA HQ, people were going red SL every few minutes. It was fun as hell though :D

Druid311
01-12-12, 23:55
What kind of services would you like to see in TechHaven? In the past there was obviously a significant shopping presence which is no longer there. What kind of things (staying in the realms of content which exists elsewhere) would draw you toward TechHaven should it receive some loving?

No promises but, as always, I am keen to see what you guys think.

I would like to see a lot of the high-tech weapons sold there. I remember on my melee tank, I use to buy a certain melee weapon I could only get from there. That was in beta 4 so maybe my memory is foggy. I'd also like to see a return of the original FA clan apartment. That thing was AWESOME!

Doc Holliday
02-12-12, 10:10
I remember on my melee tank, I use to buy a certain melee weapon I could only get from there.

laserblade. still only sold there far as i know.

Phelan
06-12-12, 20:00
Hi, i just read through al the post. As a long-term fallen angel i would like to tell my opinion. I am drawn to both sides safe and/or non-safe zone. As a matter of fact i will leave this open so far.

Let's start with the appartments. From RP-Side TH always homed the scientific branch of the FA faction. The "agressive part" was in DoY and got moved into the outzone. Which makes no sense because why shouldn't brothers welcome the family home? So the appas should be moved back to TH. This should include all the basic-vendors needed for noob-leveling. This would also make it easier for new players to find the HQ without runnning through half of the worldmap. (Does TG have their HQ in the canyon?)

If the starter-apps were to be moved to th we need to look into the leveling spots. those should be rare and not go to high to encourage players to go out and explore the world.

And now i made up my mind about the savezonething.
TH should be a savezone where tradeskillers can roam free and save.This would be in the interest of the faction. When i think back when NC co-existed with the DoY there were always enough tradeskiller around on either side. And the server-pop was not that more than now. We are talking about rough 23-30% which equals 18-270 players? There will be always a tradeskiller in NC or TH for the players. And you know? As a implanter i have no problem jumping from nc to th if there is work for me.
Don't think of new players as idiots. They are not that stupid to not know how use help- or tradechannel. If a player stands in TH and cannot find a Tradeskiller he needs and thinks "damn this game is too hard because i am somewhere and there is not the asswiper i need... I'm gonna delete my char,uninstall and DDoS the Gameservers" it's worth of losing him. Those who stay will find a community who is able to support the new players and worth staying.

Pretty sure i forgot half of my thoughts and sound confusing. Well my work is done. I am off! My Faction needs me(and TH as well)

Deus Ex Machina
05-01-13, 09:36
What kind of services would you like to see in TechHaven? In the past there was obviously a significant shopping presence which is no longer there. What kind of things (staying in the realms of content which exists elsewhere) would draw you toward TechHaven should it receive some loving?

No promises but, as always, I am keen to see what you guys think.
I had my look around now, and from what I saw I think the following would be practical:

Traders may find space in Tech Haven 3 (Where all those closed doors are in the large community room)
- Fist Weaponry might find Space, as Twilight Guardian is allied to the Fallen Angels => Armor, Turrets, Basic Heavy Weapons, Basic Melee Weapons
- Boobs & Guns might find Space, as Tsunami Syndicate is allied to the Fallen Angels => Basic Rifle and Pistol Weapons.
- An Allbuyer is needed of course.
- Maybe a VERY basic PSI Smuggler would finish the ranks (as Crahn Sect is enemy to the Fallen Angels their shop wouldn't make real sense now.) I am unsure though which existing NPC could be copied for that. Maybe the Beginner mc5 Smuggler, but he has many other things too, and I don't know which Spells he has. (Never really played a Monk long). But somehow Monk Players would have to get a few starter helps too I guess.
- Maybe a trader for Loms.

As far as i can tell, thats all of which I think it is lacking. Basic Drugs are avaiable from the Medical Guy, as are other Medical supplies. Black Dragon won't open shop there for sure, as they are too an enemy of the Fallen Angels - and Drugs are not so essential that there is a need for an alternative IN Tech Haven. Basic implants are already there, as are the basic construction and tool traders.
Basically it would mean that starting players can buy equipment there to play. The Allbuyer makes it a viable base for experienced players to come back to.

I think it boils down to: Armor, Weapons, Allbuyer.

Vorak
05-01-13, 21:03
When I came back and created a FA character I was dissapointed that my starter apt was not in TH...loved the atomosphere there back in the day and really can't understand why CM starts out at MB but FA/TG start in OZ....IMO put them back to their respective homes and add a warning upon character creation for new players (if it isn't already there).

That being said, with low-pop game, I'm in agreement that tradeskillers should not be split between TH and P1, leave that alone please. Hard enough for people to get ahold of tradeskillers during certain timezones as is. Just need to make it a little easier to start out FA and TG buy adding any missing vendors and Jones type missions (CM needs those too I believe).

Same here, I was expecting to see TH and was like wtf seeing the OZ station. Yes, please move FA apartments back to TH and the respective stores/services.

lawless
05-01-13, 22:31
There was never real sense into moving the Fallen Angels and the Twilight Guardians into the Outzone Subway Station. As i must say, i like the looks of the Appartment Complex, although there are too many sectors and appartment lifts.

The idea to move TG back to their canyon and the Fallen Angels back to their tech city was brought long time ago, but was not fulfilled. I think members of the Tsunami Syndicate and the Crahn Sect start at the pepper park again, which is awesome to populate those zones.

Short words to the canyon before i move on:
The canyon was always the Guardian's habitat and also awesome to start in. It was a feeling of freedom that united those players (I do remember this from Jupiter). Now there are some (I think two) Black Dragon guards standing around, who are not allied to the Twilight Guardians. Does not make sense. The canyon belongs to the brave Twilight Guardians and whoever is not hostile to them may visit it for sightseeing or even for moving in. But there should not be other guards than the TG ones.

As a TG runner starts out at Neocron instead of the canyon, he does miss the awesomeness provided by this sector. There are some caves for lowlevels to start out, as I would wish that there were even more for mid- and highlevels around, so that one community apart from "the medicare unity" can build up. It strongens the people to stay at their faction, help each other out and fight side by side for the freedom of their own.


This brings me to the Tech Haven facility. There also was a nice community feeling when a Fallen Angel's runner started out at the big tech city. Mostly hunting bats and stuff around the Tech Haven sectors, just to be strong enough to gather some kills at the turret sewers. There was trading and teaming and grouping and helping each other.


Yes, both factions, Fallen Angels and Twilight Guardian shall start out at their natural habitat. Binding this on one condition:
Make all the cities depending on their own. Give them sewers and dungeons from level 0 to level 60 (rank i mean in that case) and allow them to level fully independent on any other levelspot outside. This does not include any special loot, just the normal junk that's all around anyways.

Give them all the traders they need so they do not need to come out of their cities. Of course they WANT to get out at some point: rare parts, pvp, teaming up with players not their faction, rhino hunting, exploring, whatsoever. In that case all the reasons people leave the Neocron city for.


Dungeons to be added:
0 - 10 Lowlevel dungeon (Spiders, plants, beggars, mutants)
10 - 20 Lowlevel dungeon (Aggressor or equal, depending on the environment)
20 - 30 Midlevel dungeon (Launchers, Turrets, Hurlers)
30 - 40 Midlevel dungeon (Maybe higherlevel turrets and launchers, snakes)
40 - 50 Highlevel dungeon (Spiderbots, Sentrys, Turrets, Spiders)
50 - 60 Highlevel dungeon


We already have the environment for the sewers (look up the viarosso sewers nobody uses or the swampcave models without water, the DoY sewers and dungeons, the aggressor sewers etc.). All there needs to be done is to add some spawn points for them enemies, one entrance and one exit. Maybe just do 3 different sewer types, depending on the location. For example for TG use the canyon cave, the "new" lowlevel dungeon you can find at pepper park 1 in front of the club and the swamp cave model. For TH the hightech dungeon, the viarosso dungeon and one of the DoY dungeon models (storeage for example).


Also, this needs to be done for the Military base while I'm on this idea. At the moment they don't have very much to level at but the level 1 sewers and the bunker. The tough guys will just leave out the sewers and rush to the bunker anyways, but hey, give new players a chance ;)


Just my few cents.

Drachenpaladin
05-01-13, 23:34
Its annoying that the devs oversaw that issue. They moved to old DoY Apps to OZ so that old players can keep their old Appartments - but failed to set up the mechanics that new Characters would get Start Apps According to their faction.

William Antrim
06-01-13, 00:09
All three of the players at the time had their apartments moved... The other 2 new ones started in CA...


Lawless if you had your way then we would never need to leave the city, with all of these dungeons in the city noone would go anywhere and noone would ever interact with anyone outside their faction. Anyone who accidentally joined Diamond Real Estate would die of boredom...

(the above is just humour)

I love the idea of TG and FA being back in their natural homes but I think the P1 Medicare buzz is what makes NC so great. So no I would rather see the center of all trading be there.

Bruder Malmsdoo
06-01-13, 00:12
There was not good alternative at that time, but on the new server you can kill at least 2 of the oz-appartment complexes

Torg
06-01-13, 01:55
black dragons, tsunami and crahn would be happier in the pepper park, twilight guardian in the canyon and fallen angels in tech haven. all we need is a background story development to wrap it all in.

and i oppose spawning anything stronger than cyclops within settlement zones. (20-30 in lawless' post)

Doc Holliday
06-01-13, 06:45
black dragons, tsunami and crahn would be happier in the pepper park, twilight guardian in the canyon and fallen angels in tech haven. all we need is a background story development to wrap it all in.

and i oppose spawning anything stronger than cyclops within settlement zones. (20-30 in lawless' post)

Definitely agreed. Cant put it all on a silver platter. Send them off in to the world to see whats out there.

Doy should be the high end pve zone in my opinion. I know we pushed it before but for me it should be Doy/MC5 as the top end and Regants Legacy (not to be confused with the PA quest area) should be 2nd.

Dribble Joy
06-01-13, 16:15
I always felt that TH is a tradeskill area. FA traditionally is a science faction, and though it's more militant side (as borne out in the background in NC's recent history) is now a large part of it, it is somewhat secondary to organisation's aims.

One issue the factions as a whole have s that there's not really much difference between them. Aside from FSMs, there's not much discrepancy in item access/cost, quest types, play-style and other aspects of runner life.

I don't see much reason for TH to grant access to higher-end weapons. FA might have combat requirements, but less-so TH. On the other hand, cheaper parts, chems, lube and higher tl tools than other places sell are appropriate.

Similarly, CM and TG are more focused on combat. Cheaper/higher tl weapons and armour. Of course TG is generally more aligned with urban combat, stealth, infiltration and covert operations while CM operates in more conventional military manner, being concerned with wasteland action most of the time.