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Russ
25-10-12, 14:36
Now melee weapon is weak and slow against shooting weapon. That is very-very sadly ((
I found nothing on the forum about melee weapons and their balance. So i want to ask about it. Thanks
(sorry for mistakes. bad eng =P )

Dropout
25-10-12, 15:47
Now melee weapon is weak and slow against shooting weapon. That is very-very sadly ((
I found nothing on the forum about melee weapons and their balance. So i want to ask about it. Thanks
(sorry for mistakes. bad eng =P )

Dont worry, the Dev's are aware of melee being bad (same as the rest of the community).
A lot of balancing needs to be done though, not just with melee. And it is going to take some time.

Currently they prioritise bugfixing and such.
..One step at a time :)

Torg
25-10-12, 23:07
Well. this is a post-apocalyptic, post-nuklear scifi-world, so how can you expect swords, knives and baseball bats doing well against laser, plasma and fusion weaponry? seriously?

Russ
25-10-12, 23:33
Dont worry, the Dev's are aware of melee being bad (same as the rest of the community).
A lot of balancing needs to be done though, not just with melee. And it is going to take some time.

Currently they prioritise bugfixing and such.
..One step at a time :)
Thanks for the answer!



Well. this is a post-apocalyptic, post-nuklear scifi-world, so how can you expect swords, knives and baseball bats doing well against laser, plasma and fusion weaponry? seriously?
Swords, knives against pistols, rifles - i think it's quite possible and normal.
Laser blades, shokers against laser|plasma - i think to.
Remember StarWars and the Jedi swords =)

Geist-[uTw]-
26-10-12, 00:01
Well. this is a post-apocalyptic, post-nuklear scifi-world, so how can you expect swords, knives and baseball bats doing well against laser, plasma and fusion weaponry? seriously?

It´s the same thing like with the ak47, made of steel and wood but hundred times better than high energy weaponry...don´t try to understand this...

Forget My Name
26-10-12, 01:17
Well. this is a post-apocalyptic, post-nuklear scifi-world, so how can you expect swords, knives and baseball bats doing well against laser, plasma and fusion weaponry? seriously?

Hand to hand combat is inevitable in battles.

You'd think that in real life, you wouldn't need any hand to hand combat. I had my M4 when I was in the U.S. Army and in Iraq, but combat isn't always ranged. You get jumped in an alley. Your building you are defending get's breached and using shotguns, grenades and small arms fire near fellow soldiers is nulified once the enemy is in martial distance. You don't want to start shooting through walls and hitting your allies.

Why would it be any different in Neocron? You walk around a sewer and bam, mutant knifing your guts. You are hunting in a cave an bam, chaos creeper clawing through your armor and into your guts.

Jameson Clarke
26-10-12, 01:27
Also, for long rifles, if someone gets within 3 feet or closer, it quickly becomes an expensive club.

Forget My Name
26-10-12, 02:51
Also, for long rifles, if someone gets within 3 feet or closer, it quickly becomes an expensive club.

Agreed.... Which is why in 2005 (when I was using rifles) I had a bayonet attachment for my M4.

As long as people have hands, they'll have knives.

As for Melee in game... I am actually enjoying it... it isn't as bad as people made it out to be... Although, around base Strength 60, leveling slows down to a crawl...

Dropout
26-10-12, 08:16
As for Melee in game... I am actually enjoying it... it isn't as bad as people made it out to be... Although, around base Strength 60, leveling slows down to a crawl...

So where did you go after MB? Cant even think of a viable place after MB for melee lol.

Forget My Name
26-10-12, 12:50
So where did you go after MB? Cant even think of a viable place after MB for melee lol.

LOL.... I haven't left MB yet :)

Melee characters do not have AOE, so there is no point in leaving Launcher Cyclopses yet. I am rank with 47/xx even with the Perforator, a rare weapon. And I cannot fight them in the pit because 3 or more Launchers will tear me a new asshole.

There are no caves I can or want to go in. The mobs will kill me instantly.

Perhaps the only mobs I would want to fight in 1v1 combat are warbots, but I have no hacking since Weaponlore adds to my damage out put.

I really do not know what to fight other than Cyclops Launchers. I know i can fight warbots for EXP, but not their loot. Any suggestions?

Dropout
26-10-12, 13:49
LOL.... I haven't left MB yet :)

Melee characters do not have AOE, so there is no point in leaving Launcher Cyclopses yet. I am rank with 47/xx even with the Perforator, a rare weapon. And I cannot fight them in the pit because 3 or more Launchers will tear me a new asshole.

There are no caves I can or want to go in. The mobs will kill me instantly.

Perhaps the only mobs I would want to fight in 1v1 combat are warbots, but I have no hacking since Weaponlore adds to my damage out put.

I really do not know what to fight other than Cyclops Launchers. I know i can fight warbots for EXP, but not their loot. Any suggestions?

Yeah I know that melee doesnt have AoE (whoever thinks that handgrenades DOESNT fit melee is just plain dumb IMO..).

But yeah thats what I thought.
Maybe poison caves (not Chaos caves). The ones with the Shaman and tons of bats. No idea how much damage they do now..
Havent been there since I capped and WoC'ed a Pistol spy there back in 2.1.
Back then the Water made it quite easy though. Not sure if they removed that..

If your gonna try to fight warbots, I would actually lom your INT, for hacking. WEP doesnt give THAT much damage iirc, and while just leveling, you dont really need to maximize it.
Do remember TONS of resists, that beam they shoot does a lot of damage - cant remember if its pure xray or if Theres some energy in it aswell though.
And some force would probably be a good idea aswell to counter those damn rockets :p

Or you could get a energy sword and try your luck with Regants.. I would stick to killing those small bastards that barely do any damage though ;)

William Antrim
26-10-12, 13:55
LOL.... I haven't left MB yet :)

Melee characters do not have AOE, so there is no point in leaving Launcher Cyclopses yet. I am rank with 47/xx even with the Perforator, a rare weapon. And I cannot fight them in the pit because 3 or more Launchers will tear me a new asshole.

There are no caves I can or want to go in. The mobs will kill me instantly.

Perhaps the only mobs I would want to fight in 1v1 combat are warbots, but I have no hacking since Weaponlore adds to my damage out put.

I really do not know what to fight other than Cyclops Launchers. I know i can fight warbots for EXP, but not their loot. Any suggestions?

Worms (like hazard worms but smaller and not a huge spawn - try the northern mine zones above Malstrond).

Chaos Caves - as long as someone is barrelling it is obligatory to stand in the barrel - provided you have a DG equipped as this protects you from the barrel apparently......

Lower level firemobs are also good, raptors leapers and what not at H12.

Decayed Horrors are good - gabanium mine has a nice spawn.

Back on topic

The best way to defeat a high tech enemy is to go low tech on him - this isnt exactly paraphrased from the Art of War but Sun Tzu does basically allude to it in said book. Real world armies (guerilla and traditional) have gone as low tech as possible when out in the field and the kit starts to break down. The best computer in the world needs a power supply and without it you just have a 10kg box of metal bits.

Knives, bats and clubs - even chains - I would love to see melee have some chains like in Road Rash - should be able to stand toe to toe with a high tech weapon user.

Lets face it, a metal club to the face will hurt just as much as a fusion rifle stock ever will.

:D

William Antrim
26-10-12, 13:56
Yeah I know that melee doesnt have AoE (whoever thinks that handgrenades DOESNT fit melee is just plain dumb IMO..).



You're my hero.

Dropout
26-10-12, 14:00
You're my hero.

I know <3

:D

Linear
26-10-12, 15:31
Regants Legacy is good for later melee, just clean the corridors.

Forget My Name
26-10-12, 15:37
So far, I have found that I am able to equal or surpass other runners of roughly the same combat rank as me in pve for damage.

So far, the only weapon I have found to be a disappointment is the Perforator. That thing needs a damage boost. Other than the rare knuckle, my damage out put is great. I wouldn't mind a slight boost over all. I feel Melee should do the most damage out of all the weapon types, and giving melee, say, 10% more damage would make it viable for leveling.

The frequency of my attacks are perfect, no adjustments needed there. I have zero issues with frequency.

There is a HUGE "BORING" lull I just came across... There are no new weapons to use between base strength 68 and 78. That is 10 painful levels without any sort of weapon upgrade. I am now base strength 68, and the next 10 levels I can see are going to be hell...

I am going to give Regants a try. Of course, I have to avoid the genetoxic crawlers...

I personally feel that Melee weapons should give you equal exp for Con and Strength.

Also, Melee chips should come with resists as standard. I think that would be a great fix for Melee.

Kanedax
26-10-12, 16:50
The problem with melee is not in the PVE damage it's in the PVP damage, or lack thereof.

Forget My Name
26-10-12, 18:01
Well... Regants was okay... The chest bursters are hard as balls to hit with melee, but they are okay... Damn Genetoxic crawlers kill me in one laggy life hit...

Ugh...

Kanedax
26-10-12, 23:54
The damage on those mobs is bugged, also melee range is much better than people seem to think. You can hit shit from (rough estimate) like 10 in game feet away.

Forget My Name
27-10-12, 00:17
Melee became too slow and hard to level. Anything above Launcher Cyclopses just destroy me. it was fun and decently quick for level, but once I hit roughly strength 68, game was over.

I lom'd to HC. I'll cap him like this, then lom back to MC for pvp.

IanKett
29-10-12, 00:39
Meele seriously needs a boost in damage and the ability to add mods for Xray, Fire and Poison damage.

William Antrim
29-10-12, 01:07
Melee became too slow and hard to level. Anything above Launcher Cyclopses just destroy me. it was fun and decently quick for level, but once I hit roughly strength 68, game was over.

I lom'd to HC. I'll cap him like this, then lom back to MC for pvp.

You need some grenades in the boss room bro. Melee needs 'nades man. :)

aKe`cj
29-10-12, 01:11
I like the idea of moving 'nades to melee.

Forget My Name
29-10-12, 01:14
You need some grenades in the boss room bro. Melee needs 'nades man. :)

Hear hear!!!!

Britney
29-10-12, 02:37
Why not put say an 25% increase in melee weapon dmg across the board in the next test patch so we can all see if that equals things out a bit or it needs more / less. I also think the clip fix will have an effect on melee pvp.

\\Fényx//
29-10-12, 03:38
Why not put say an 25% increase in melee weapon dmg across the board in the next test patch so we can all see if that equals things out a bit or it needs more / less. I also think the clip fix will have an effect on melee pvp.

remains to be seen how its handling the new player position. if your foe is in one place on your screen, i think theres now no guarantee there anywhere near that position, which will lead to the old melee bug of doing absolutely no damage atall because the range check fails even though youre at their feet on your screen.

Forget My Name
29-10-12, 03:49
Melee needs more defense.

I have found that pve damage is roughly fine as it is. Anything higher than a Launcher Cyclopes just destroys the melee user.

Also, aoe. :)

Dropout
29-10-12, 06:24
Melee needs more defense.

I have found that pve damage is roughly fine as it is. Anything higher than a Launcher Cyclopes just destroys the melee user.

Also, aoe. :)

Unfortunately that will conflict with PvP balance..
They need more damage in PvP, less stam drain and the weapons shouldnt break from a couple of hours PvP.

Forget My Name
29-10-12, 06:41
Unfortunately that will conflict with PvP balance..
They need more damage in PvP, less stam drain and the weapons shouldnt break from a couple of hours PvP.

My goal isn't to make melee "good" for pvp by lomming over to it afetr leveling with HC. My goal is to make melee a viable weapon choice through out 100% of the game.

The developers know this. They know that pvp is end game, and pve is the rest of the game, and what keeps new players hooked into the entire game is their first experiences, and that is pve.

If melee defense isn't to be raised, then quite simply, the deadliness of all monsters need to be reduced, otherwise melee is just a novelty weapon choice to be lom'd over to at end game.

I am also curious... what do you mean by "couple hours of pvp"? I am confused by this.

\\Fényx//
29-10-12, 06:44
I am also curious... what do you mean by "couple hours of pvp"? I am confused by this.

The rate of decay on melee weapons is awful.

Forget My Name
29-10-12, 07:50
The rate of decay on melee weapons is awful.

I've only noticed this in PvE because PvE lasts hours straight... I've never been in a PvP situation where I fought for, literally, hours straight. Usually a few minutes here and there and that is it. I've never actually just hit players for hours like I do mobs.

William Antrim
29-10-12, 10:36
It is still a problem whatever you're hitting.

IanKett
29-10-12, 13:37
The rate of decay on melee weapons is awful.

This is so true.
Meele should help benefit defense in all resists, have a tiny increase in damage and allow us to use mods for Xray, fire and poison damage.

If this is updated on the test server we can all test it out and balance it properly.

IanKett
29-10-12, 13:53
I'm playing my meele now, SamuraiKett and I hit a aggie captain 4 times and each hit I got, "your item has been damaged a little"

IanKett
29-10-12, 14:11
Few other issues I've come across.

The weapon that was not constructed shows damage type.
With it being a laser blade the damage should be high energy or completely energy instead of high pierce low energy.
http://i.imgur.com/GR61L.png

The constructed version here doesn't show damage type or level.
http://i.imgur.com/chNAv.png

Also the laserblade broke in 1 hour of leveling.

IanKett
29-10-12, 20:57
Just realised you lose condition by attacking with your sword and hitting nothing but thin air

William Antrim
29-10-12, 21:51
Just realised you lose condition by attacking with your sword and hitting nothing but thin air

That's called rust.


:D

slith
29-10-12, 22:43
Actually that happens with all weapon, you lose condition more if you don't hit anything. Or shoot at Genreps, for whatever reason.

\\Fényx//
29-10-12, 23:48
You still do the damage types with the constructed laserblade.

Old bug, when you hit reload using a melee weapon, the info window loses its damage type values.