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View Full Version : [R#175/6] Test Patch Discussion



Alduin
24-10-12, 21:22
Patchnotes:

http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?146413-175-Patchnotes&p=2193943&viewfull=1#post2193943

Legato
24-10-12, 21:50
Temporarily disabled area drones
[/LIST]

Droning is going to be dead now. Temporarily? I'm guessing months. 6+ at best. I dislike this.

I do like the other changes, though. Good to see some bugs being fixed! Especially alt-tab fixes.

Absurdum0422
24-10-12, 21:56
Exactly, "Temp" is for god knows how long. Thanks for all the QQ on drones. Every class in NC has now been nerfed/broken.

Legato
24-10-12, 22:00
I understand that we are not paying customers, but you should see all of the talk in OOC chat right now. It's pretty much an outrage (on both sides) about aoe drones. So can you give us an answer what TEMPORARILY means?

Also, when do you expect this patch to be live?

Forget My Name
24-10-12, 22:01
Temporarily disabled area drones

1) Neocron is now going to consist of only leveling AOE Tanks and AOE Monks, and the occasional AOE Pistol/Grenade PE. Leveling without AOE is something no one likes to do, and this change will effectively kill off the Spy class.

2) New Tradeskillers are going to cease to exist. The majority of people use Droning only so they can LOM over to tradeskilling.

3) We all know temporarily is going to be many months.

I already got my capped Constructor and high end Researcher done, so this change doesn't effect me one bit, but it will effect many, many new players who just want to tradeskill (within a reasonable amount of time, not 3 months of rifle usage), but now can't.

I guess business is going to be booming for me :)

L0KI
24-10-12, 22:06
I for one am very happy about the temporary removal of AOE drones. I do, however think AoE rifles/pistols need to be considered so all classes have a fair run of AoE levelling.

Also... mob damage is so high. Spies are going to struggle.

Legato
24-10-12, 22:06
Exactly. I had literally just lommed up so I could level up as a droner then switch to researcher. I have almost lost my motivation to do much of anything on the spy now. Who knows when the patch will be live and how soon before it is "fixed"

How about in this SAME patch, you make it so constructing and researching actually gives you worthwhile XP? If you did that, then new tradeskillers will not be put off.

Mokoi
24-10-12, 22:08
Changes of this patch will go live after it has been thoroughly tested and remaining or new issues that need fixing have been addressed.
Disabling AoE drones ist obviously not what we consider a fix for the problem and you can and are right to expect us to fix this issue at the core at the soonest possibility.
Those who claim that "temporarily" implies a timeframe of XYZ are doing so without any foundation. Help us test patches and report back issues and you will see that we have no intention to return to the "old days" of waiting ages for big patches that end up breaking stuff all over the place. We have deliberately kept this patch concise, knowing that smaller and focussed patches can be pushed out with less risk in faster intervals.
Asking for specific dates or timeframes however, is mute as everything we do is subject to various influence factors that we cannot control completely, thus when we do not provide an exact ETA there is good reason.
As I have heared people complaining that exploits x/y/z are not mentioned in the patchnotes: We do not provide details on exploits that are still open to abuse on retail. Issue #1 on the patchlog can be seen as a meta issue for a number of other issues we cannot talk about here.

Absurdum0422
24-10-12, 22:09
Invisible walls to just turning off drones... Have you thought about just disabling spies all together? could be easier

dWintermut3
24-10-12, 22:10
I urge in the strongest possible terms to reconsider the removal of AoE drones for four reasons:


1) Removing more content for "fixing" will create great concern among the playerbase, it's already started in OOC chat. There is a great feeling that the game is sliding backwards.

2) You are creating a definite caste system of "haves" (people that have WoC, MC-5 chips and capped characters with lots of cash) and "have nots". This system actually FAVORS people that exploited those locations before they were disabled. By creating unstoppable barriers to advancement to those levels the people that did "the wrong thing" are now the most powerful in the game and always will be, no one can catch up.

3) Removing Droners as a viable class leaves spies with only three AoE weapons (the three rocket pistols). Since AOE is widely considered an absolute requirement for reaching the 100+million overcapped skill points to WoC-1. Spies now have NO ROUTE to WoC that can be done with any degree of speed.

4) by making spies nonviable to level you are creating a massive gap among people that have used the droner-LOM method to achieve high tradeskill levels and the people that have not. This means that new people coming to the game have very little hope of ever being economically viable in one of the most unique aspects of the game.


In compensation, at the very least, tradeskill XP should be increased to the point it is a viable leveling path and rifles should be given AoE... BEFORE the drones are disabled, not an unknown time ("soon(R) when it's done(TM)") later.


TO SUM UP: WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS GIVING EXPLOITERS A MASSIVE REWARD AT THE EXPENSE OF HONEST PLAYERS THAT ARE NOW TOTALLY NONVIABLE. PLEASE RECONSIDER THAT AS YOUR OFFICIAL STANCE.

Legato
24-10-12, 22:11
Changes of this patch will go live after it has been thoroughly tested and remaining or new issues that need fixing have been addressed.
Disabling AoE drones ist obviously not what we consider a fix for the problem and you can and are right to expect us to fix this issue at the core at the soonest possibility.
Asking for specific dates or timeframes is mute as everything we do is subject to various influence factors that we cannot control completely, thus when we do not provide an exact ETA there is good reason.
As I have heared people complaining that exploits x/y/z are not mentioned in the patchnotes: We do not provide details on exploits that are still open to abuse on retail. Issue #1 on the patchlog can be seen as a meta issue for a number of other issues we cannot talk about here.

I posted above that in order to fix it so that tradeskillers can level up-- how about increasing the XP received when constructing or researching? As it is, almost every tradeskiller will want to level up as a droner. This has been trashed at the moment, so can we go with a real solution for people who care about tradeskills?

Dropout
24-10-12, 22:16
And now something positive..
Added TL92 Tangent Assault Pulselaser Pistol to high level tech pistol vendor
Best news ever! Well maybe not ever.. but still, awesome news :D

Looks like a lot of the other fixes gonna be sweet aswell ofc.

L0KI
24-10-12, 22:18
TO SUM UP: WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS GIVING EXPLOITERS A MASSIVE REWARD AT THE EXPENSE OF HONEST PLAYERS THAT ARE NOW TOTALLY NONVIABLE. PLEASE RECONSIDER THAT AS YOUR OFFICIAL STANCE.

I have to admit, this is a pretty good argument. Removing AOE drones at this stage when so many WoC spies have already used these 'exploits' does seem like you're rewarding them. There has to be something else you can do to boost spy xp gain.

Chuck Norris
24-10-12, 22:25
QQ PLEASE REMOVE ALL AOE n the game, for fairness sake QQ

gotta say this is hilarious, lets hope patch 175 works this time

William Antrim
24-10-12, 22:58
Im going to continue to level all 3 of my spies as I have been since the start of Titan and all will be fully capped in a few more weeks. Just so I can laugh at anyone who says spies cant be levelled.


P.s I have not droned for one second on titan. There is more than one way to level a spy fast.


I posted above that in order to fix it so that tradeskillers can level up-- how about increasing the XP received when constructing or researching? As it is, almost every tradeskiller will want to level up as a droner. This has been trashed at the moment, so can we go with a real solution for people who care about tradeskills?


I have two trade skillers both currently sitting at Dex/Int 70ish and neither has droned. Ever

I am currently only getting about 1 level per half hour or so and it is showing signs of slowing down but I think I can cap all 3 in another week or two.

\\Fényx//
24-10-12, 23:08
Im going to continue to level all 3 of my spies as I have been since the start of Titan and all will be fully capped in a few more weeks. Just so I can laugh at anyone who says spies cant be levelled.


P.s I have not droned for one second on titan. There is more than one way to level a spy fast.




I have two trade skillers both currently sitting at Dex/Int 70ish and neither has droned. Ever

I am currently only getting about 1 level per half hour or so and it is showing signs of slowing down but I think I can cap all 3 in another week or two.

My rifle spy is 98 dex/94 int base, and ive mostly just hunted warbots with him or teamed for caves. My researcher is base 98 int now too, neither of them droned. It does just take a bit of time and work to do it.

However I do think the 'temporary' removal of all AOE drones is a bit of a kick in the teeth fix for reasons stated above. those that have blatantly not played by the same ruleset have been walking aorund with woc dex for a few weeks now

Ivan Eres
24-10-12, 23:13
I posted above that in order to fix it so that tradeskillers can level up-- how about increasing the XP received when constructing or researching? As it is, almost every tradeskiller will want to level up as a droner. This has been trashed at the moment, so can we go with a real solution for people who care about tradeskills?

This.

I do get the impression that all the talk about the tradeskillers not being able to level without drones means in fact that people have gotten used to this kind of easy leveling and farming too much.

I level my traders without drones, and it's fun. Only thing I miss at the moment are possible places to go after the launcher cylcops for my pistol conster. That is more of a subject for me than drones. And ofc like Legato I want much more XP for doing trader stuff like consting, bartering, ressing, and doing missions.

NC's mechanics can be abused too easily with drones, so people should get over it. If there can be a solution there will be, I am sure. I think we should primarily be happy about these volunteers working their asses off to do something that hasn't been done in years: provide a new working stable patch. Even if there are changes that you don't like.

Regards

Haxxor
24-10-12, 23:28
All this outrage is a disgrace, some of the comments are really disrespectful to the dev team who are providing this game free of charge.

To clarify you are owed nothing, and if you can't see that the dev team are working towards creating a stable and balanced game then you shouldn't play.

unreal
24-10-12, 23:39
I agree with most of what dWintermut and a couple others have just said about shafting the Spy class considerably.


Removing more content for "fixing" will create great concern among the playerbase, it's already started in OOC chat. There is a great feeling that the game is sliding backwards.I found Titan was up and running a bit later than most people by the looks of it. And what I noticed immediately is that despite the so called anti-exploiting stance, very little would appear to be done about it. I know this particular part of my post will be going a bit off topic, but anyway. Only the very severe exploiters appears to be dealt with in any meaningful way, the others simply carry on and laugh in your face, and say you have no life when you confront them (yes, Boy, whatever your forum account name is, I'm talking about you :D). For starters there needs to be an overhaul in the way exploiters are dealt with. You should be able to submit an in-game ticket for a GM to catch them in the act. Submitting a ticket and being responded with "Send essay of information already associated with a ticket, and proof to exploits@neocron.info" is a retarded approach in most cases. You can submit a ticket when you're trapped somewhere, but not when someone is cheating and as is often the case, destroying the value of the economy.

While I can appreciate removing/disabling something to stop further exploiting, it does seem it's a bit late.

If someone is caught exploiting, as mentioned, they shouldn't just get a slap on the wrist, such as a warning. If it's evident that it's far from an accidental situation, they should have some other form of in-game punishment as well. Remove half of their experience, wipe all their WoC levels, whatever it may be. When they know they can get away with it, they'll keep doing it.


I do get the impression that all the talk about the tradeskillers not being able to level without drones means in fact that people have gotten used to this kind of easy leveling and farming too much.This seems to be a recurring theme mentioned so far. That is, assuming all the droner spies are trying to power level yet another tradeskiller. For many of us, we're no longer 13, 14, 15. We can't spend 8 hours a time levelling to WoC with rifles. And when you're starting your first character on a new server from scratch, droning makes sense. You do whatever is the most efficient. I did end up putting aside about 7 hours to get the character moving along, only to find it was rolled back and had to start again. When the patchnotes were released just now, I found AoE drones are kaput, and I'd just spent 250k on getting some RK1000 blueprints researched, and the weaponparts to build them (near enough all my cash). So I definitely fit into the camp of those who are going to need to farm using crap drones for a long time, just to work up the money to pay someone to research and construct a bunch of rifles I can actually use (since pistols are unviable for most solo PvM).

slith
24-10-12, 23:44
With all this whining about AOE Drones being disabled you guys forget that team XP is now calculated correctly. What about we see how that turns out until we bitch on? And what is a few months of waiting time (and I doubt that it will be months) compared to the years we've been waiting already?

Kame
25-10-12, 00:01
All this outrage is a disgrace, some of the comments are really disrespectful to the dev team who are providing this game free of charge.

To clarify you are owed nothing, and if you can't see that the dev team are working towards creating a stable and balanced game then you shouldn't play.

Disrespectful ? Hardly.




AFAIK, disabling AOE drones is the quick-fix to answer complains in the community.
If anything, community needs to grow up and realize AOE drones have always been this way, and that they are simply part of the arsenal available to spies for making damage.



I have seen runners in-game with /36 chars waste their time, frapsing/reporting, and generally trying to be a GM telling other runners how to play.
Those runners are the reason the DEV team is applying this AOE removal in #175.
I fell these runners need to stop complaining to get the DEV to adjust the game to their styles of play.



All in all, I'm simply worried that the next class to be complained about will be nerfed just like we see now. Way I see things, next will probably be APU's barrels be removed from game because it is possible to solo caves using them.

Unrestrained
25-10-12, 00:03
I think disabling drones without adding anything extra is unfair to people just starting out. I see people in game trading rares who have 1000 techs to trade, and you cant tell me that they have done this legit.
All I hope for is that mob damage is reduced so you can actually level without hiding around a corner or being on the other side of the zone.
But I have to say as far as the current server is going it has completely killed NC for me, the community has gone down hill and is basically full of exploiters/inconsiderate nobs to put it bluntly. I believe I have more fun reading the forum than actually getting in game these days.

CMaster
25-10-12, 00:08
You know, I remember when levelling via drones was a thing it was known you could do, but most spies levelled pistol or rifle. They still can. Contrasting HC tank levelling rates with drones is a little silly - one is much, much faster than the other.

Yeah, it's sledgehammer. And yeah, it's rewarding all those who took the piss fastest. But that was predictable from the moment Titan launched without patch 175 - that now was the time to abuse the system as much as possible before things. And still is of course, in the time between now and the next patch.

Kame
25-10-12, 00:11
I think disabling drones without adding anything extra is unfair to people just starting out. I see people in game trading rares who have 1000 techs to trade, and you cant tell me that they have done this legit.


It is very hard to hunt for rares with a droner, because the drone doesn't loot. Most of the community's rare farming is done with rhinos and rifle spys, with the exception of DoY tunnels and cave bosses. From my experience, hunting firemobs is by far a better source of unressed that the tunnels.

I can personally harvest a good 25-30 unressed in one evening with my rifle spy. When you have a clan with a dozen or so people farming rares everyday, do the math it's very easy to get 1000 rares within one month.

slith
25-10-12, 00:13
I think disabling drones without adding anything extra is unfair to people just starting out. I see people in game trading rares who have 1000 techs to trade, and you cant tell me that they have done this legit.Team effort ftw. I have 600 parts listed, and only collected about 40 of them :)

You are right about the inconsiderate noobs, but wrong about the exploiters..

unreal
25-10-12, 00:24
I have seen runners in-game with /36 chars waste their time, frapsing/reporting, and generally trying to be a GM telling other runners how to play.
Those runners are the reason the DEV team is applying this AOE removal in #175.
I fell these runners need to stop complaining to get the DEV to adjust the game to their styles of play.Cheating isn't a gameplay style or tactic, it's cheating, simple as. The very fact that people (me included) have been complaining about people exploiting the game mechanics shows that's it's those people (probably including yourself based on what you just said) that have caused them to be removed (as much as I don't like the decision myself). We're the ones trying to get THEM to play without cheating. Titan was a good effort toward getting Neocron active again, and active it is, but it would seem in a bad way. To the point where many of us 'normal' users don't want to put up with this crap anymore. If it's going to be like this, you might as well just delete Titan and get everyone back to Terra.

Absurdum0422
25-10-12, 00:27
AFAIK, disabling AOE drones is the quick-fix to answer complains in the community.
If anything, community needs to grow up and realize AOE drones have always been this way, and that they are simply part of the arsenal available to spies for making damage.



I have seen runners in-game with /36 chars waste their time, frapsing/reporting, and generally trying to be a GM telling other runners how to play.
Those runners are the reason the DEV team is applying this AOE removal in #175.
I fell these runners need to stop complaining to get the DEV to adjust the game to their styles of play.



All in all, I'm simply worried that the next class to be complained about will be nerfed just like we see now. Way I see things, next will probably be APU's barrels be removed from game because it is possible to solo caves using them.





^^^ exactly. This only happened because of all the QQ about it. People that don't know how to play this game well assume that if ppl have lots of tech/rares it's because of cheats. You couldn't be more wrong. Go to the canyons and count the rhinos. All the exploiting droners, they are you constructors/reseachers/barters. Not the Tanks/PPU's running around with rares fighting in OP's. All this nerf is, is just trying to appease the masses in OOC chat. I also like the ppl posting about how this isn't a big deal, as they run around with their HC tanks or APU's. You'd be crying if you lose your aoe cannon's or barrels.

Absurdum0422
25-10-12, 00:30
Cheating isn't a gameplay style or tactic, it's cheating, simple as. The very fact that people (me included) have been complaining about people exploiting the game mechanics shows that's it's those people (probably including yourself based on what you just said) that have caused them to be removed (as much as I don't like the decision myself). We're the ones trying to get THEM to play without cheating. Titan was a good effort toward getting Neocron active again, and active it is, but it would seem in a bad way. To the point where many of us 'normal' users don't want to put up with this crap anymore. If it's going to be like this, you might as well just delete Titan and get everyone back to Terra.

Just because he doesn't speak of those players in high regard doesn't mean he's a cheater. The problems is most people that spam about exploiters have no proof. I've seen lots of people just say cuz they are mad a droner is there or something of that nature. I've never exploited with droning (or any other) and have been harassed by players saying they are taking pictures or sending a ticket. it's absurd.

The real problem is everyone is assuming everyone else is cheating. Not that everyone actually is.

Jameson Clarke
25-10-12, 00:39
You've got to break a few eggs to make an omelette. Let's give these guys a chance to prove their capacity to fix issues quickly without putting us in limbo.

I mean, by all means, you can just not play the game if AoE drones being disabled until a fix is found if it is that big of a deal to you. Sure, I love my RG-1000s and RK-1000s, but if I need to sacrifice them for a temporary period of time for a step forward, then so be it.

Kame
25-10-12, 00:39
[QUOTE=unreal;2194005]Cheating isn't a gameplay style or tactic, it's cheating, simple as. The very fact that people (me included) have been complaining about people exploiting the game mechanics shows that's it's those people (probably including yourself based on what you just said) that have caused them to be removed (as much as I don't like the decision myself). We're the ones trying to get THEM to play without cheating./QUOTE]


Might I remind you, cheating is safespotting the drone, not simply using them.

Nowadays on Titan, a lot of runners just start accusing people of exploiting as soon as they see a drone, regardless of the position/usage of the drone. Using drones for leveling is not cheating.

The Pope
25-10-12, 00:49
Disabling AOE drones is imo the same thing that happened when you guys moved the MC5 commander and closed Ceres lab, you placed an even larger gap between the exploiters and the rest of the server. The people who used the exploits to gain WoC xp, MC5 implants and WoC disks have won, they have what they need, but the rest of us who did things legit now have to deal with a much longer time to cap and gain WoC xp, horrible respawns on MC5 commander and Protos that can shoot you from across the zone.

My opinion is simple and might be a way to push some lifeblood into the servers.. Open up Character COPIES, charge a small fee ($10-$20 USD) per character. Characters are COPIED, not Transferred, and they come to Titan with XP ONLY! No items, Credits or anything else. I know officially you cannot accept money, so maybe there is a way you guys can work it out so it seems like we are paying the GM to give the character the exact XP they had on Terra?

Again, just an idea.
But the removal of AoE drones without implementing a suitable AoE replacement for Spies has pretty much doomed the class. We are too weak to handle high level mobs with their bugged damage and other PvE issues (Invisible fire mobs, mobs shooting you without animations and so on..)

Absurdum0422
25-10-12, 00:56
You've got to break a few eggs to make an omelette. Let's give these guys a chance to prove their capacity to fix issues quickly without putting us in limbo.

I mean, by all means, you can just not play the game if AoE drones being disabled until a fix is found if it is that big of a deal to you. Sure, I love my RG-1000s and RK-1000s, but if I need to sacrifice them for a temporary period of time for a step forward, then so be it.




and that's legit. The only reason i'm concerned is because i've heard this talk before and it didn't work out they way everyone was hoping it would. But you're right, we'll just have to wait and swallow the pill. It's not like they actually care what we think about gameplay. They will always do what they think is best

Manosteel36
25-10-12, 01:05
Invisible walls to just turning off drones... Have you thought about just disabling spies all together? could be easier

You are complaining about the easiest form of leveling that is making every leveling area be a Droner hub...

And you are complaining about setting up invisible walls so people can't safe spot.. you are a big complainer, and you aren't trying to add value to the NC community, these people are.. . shame on you.

Manosteel36
25-10-12, 01:06
Disabling AOE drones is imo the same thing that happened when you guys moved the MC5 commander and closed Ceres lab, you placed an even larger gap between the exploiters and the rest of the server. The people who used the exploits to gain WoC xp, MC5 implants and WoC disks have won, they have what they need, but the rest of us who did things legit now have to deal with a much longer time to cap and gain WoC xp, horrible respawns on MC5 commander and Protos that can shoot you from across the zone.

My opinion is simple and might be a way to push some lifeblood into the servers.. Open up Character COPIES, charge a small fee ($10-$20 USD) per character. Characters are COPIED, not Transferred, and they come to Titan with XP ONLY! No items, Credits or anything else. I know officially you cannot accept money, so maybe there is a way you guys can work it out so it seems like we are paying the GM to give the character the exact XP they had on Terra?

Again, just an idea.
But the removal of AoE drones without implementing a suitable AoE replacement for Spies has pretty much doomed the class. We are too weak to handle high level mobs with their bugged damage and other PvE issues (Invisible fire mobs, mobs shooting you without animations and so on..)

It hasn't doomed the class, it has made them on par with everyone else... Everyone is complaining because the super-fast-easy-mindless-exploitable form of leveling for spies is now altered so its not as faceroll... Go back to WoW please

If characters were able to be brought from other servers.. the community would die and no one would be incited to play... stop being lazy and play the game

dWintermut3
25-10-12, 01:13
It hasn't doomed the class, it has made them on par with everyone else... Everyone is complaining because the super-fast-easy-mindless-exploitable form of leveling for spies is now altered so its not as faceroll... Go back to WoW please

If characters were able to be brought from other servers.. the community would die and no one would be incited to play... stop being lazy and play the game

No it makes spies the ONLY archetype without AoE at all TL ranges.

Pistols are sufficiently broken that it's not an exageration to say it removes all spy AoE, reducing levelling time by as much as 500-600%

Forget My Name
25-10-12, 01:15
It hasn't doomed the class, it has made them on par with everyone else... Everyone is complaining because the super-fast-easy-mindless-exploitable form of leveling for spies is now altered so its not as faceroll... Go back to WoW please.

Spies are pretty much doomed now. They fill in the same role as PE's do now, meh.

Why?

Because both Tanks and Monks can AOE level just as fast, if not faster (I know tanks level faster than droners, not sure bout Monks) than droner spies.

Your point might have merit if NO class could level as fast as Spies, but two other classes could, and now will be able to level faster.

So no, Spies are not on par with "everyone else", as you say, because Tanks and Monk will be able to speed level regardless.

The Pope
25-10-12, 01:16
EVERY other class is capable of AoE leveling, all of which can do it better than spies ever could. Monks can attack as long as they have psi, which with boosters is a long time. Tanks and PEs can AoE essentially till their weapon breaks since they can recycle the ammo needed, Spies on the other hand had to launch a drone, get shot by mobs, find a spot that wouldnt get them banned, then only shoot off a certain number of rounds before having to do it all over again.. So ya if you were an exploiter droning was easy and capped you stupidly fast.

Dropout
25-10-12, 01:18
EVERY other class is capable of AoE leveling, all of which can do it better than spies ever could. Monks can attack as long as they have psi, which with boosters is a long time. Tanks and PEs can AoE essentially till their weapon breaks since they can recycle the ammo needed, Spies on the other hand had to launch a drone, get shot by mobs, find a spot that wouldnt get them banned, then only shoot off a certain number of rounds before having to do it all over again.. So ya if you were an exploiter droning was easy and capped you stupidly fast.

Your kidding, right..?

dWintermut3
25-10-12, 01:21
I would also like to point out no one has been able to argue against my biggest point:


Everything the devs have done that froze an exploit after some people had already used it, without banning the exploiters or rolling their characters back has created a HUGE gap between people willing to cheat and people that are not.

This is just one more thing that means I will never have as much or do as well as people that cheated.

The unintended terrible consequence is that the best people on the server, with the capped constructors and the MC-5 chips and the WoC levels... will be the people that were "in before the nerf."

The fact this pattern has been repeated several times now (with ceres labs, MC-5 and now droners) is making me wonder if I ever have a chance of competing with the cheaters, not the other way around.

The fair solution would be to wipe all XP when you make a change this big, wipe all MC-5 chips when you change the zone that drastically, etc.


Right now they are simply rewarding the exploiters.

Forget My Name
25-10-12, 01:23
EVERY other class is capable of AoE leveling, all of which can do it better than spies ever could. Monks can attack as long as they have psi, which with boosters is a long time. Tanks and PEs can AoE essentially till their weapon breaks since they can recycle the ammo needed, Spies on the other hand had to launch a drone, get shot by mobs, find a spot that wouldnt get them banned, then only shoot off a certain number of rounds before having to do it all over again.. So ya if you were an exploiter droning was easy and capped you stupidly fast.

I agree with all of this except the part about PEs. Sure PEs can act like shittier versions of Tanks, but if you are going to play an HC PE, why don't you just play a Tank?

The PE is the absolute bottom of the barrel in this game. Even without AOE, Spies will still be more desirable than PEs, but that isn't saying much.

Forget My Name
25-10-12, 01:25
The fact this pattern has been repeated several times now (with ceres labs, MC-5 and now droners) is making me wonder if I ever have a chance of competing with the cheaters, not the other way around.

You'll be able to make a capped Constructor like I did, but it'll take you a month instead of a few days. So don't worry, you'll get there eventually!

The Pope
25-10-12, 01:26
Your kidding, right..?

No Walker i am not kidding.

You cant honestly think Droning is easier than lobbing grenades off a wall into a pack of mobs..

Droning is really only good for 2 reasons.. 1. Fastest XP available for a Spy. 2. You dont have to worry so much about dying (though it still happens quite a bit.)
The down side to drones is huge! 1. ITS F'ING BORING!!! 2. ITS F'ING BORING!!! 3. Half of the NC world is considered a safe spot. 4. Limited ammo 5. ITS F'ING BORING!!! 6. Most drones suck, only good ones are the RK and the PN which is a rare.
The list of reasons to hate drones could go on for another paragraph im sure, but you get the point.

Forget My Name
25-10-12, 01:28
No Walker i am not kidding.

You cant honestly think Droning is easier than lobbing grenades off a wall into a pack of mobs..

Droning is really only good for 2 reasons.. 1. Fastest XP available for a Spy. 2. You dont have to worry so much about dying (though it still happens quite a bit.)
The down side to drones is huge! 1. ITS F'ING BORING!!! 2. ITS F'ING BORING!!! 3. Half of the NC world is considered a safe spot. 4. Limited ammo 5. ITS F'ING BORING!!! 6. Most drones suck, only good ones are the RK and the PN which is a rare.
The list of reasons to hate drones could go on for another paragraph im sure, but you get the point.

If I could trade skill as a Tank I would because Tank leveling blows Spy leveling out of the water.

Dropout
25-10-12, 01:30
I would also like to point out no one has been able to argue against my biggest point:


Everything the devs have done that froze an exploit after some people had already used it, without banning the exploiters or rolling their characters back has created a HUGE gap between people willing to cheat and people that are not.

This is just one more thing that means I will never have as much or do as well as people that cheated.

The unintended terrible consequence is that the best people on the server, with the capped constructors and the MC-5 chips and the WoC levels... will be the people that were "in before the nerf."

The fact this pattern has been repeated several times now (with ceres labs, MC-5 and now droners) is making me wonder if I ever have a chance of competing with the cheaters, not the other way around.
Best items does NOT equal best players.
Most of the people that "didnt play nice" are horrible players.
I do agree on the problem with MC-5's since the only viable class without those are HC Tanks. Myself has putten my PE on standby till I actually can get the MC-5's needed. And are now making a tank.


The fair solution would be to wipe all XP when you make a change this big, wipe all MC-5 chips when you change the zone that drastically, etc.
Heh thats probably the single worst idea I have ever heard.. Wipe all XP?!

The Pope
25-10-12, 01:32
I agree with all of this except the part about PEs. Sure PEs can act like shittier versions of Tanks, but if you are going to play an HC PE, why don't you just play a Tank?

The PE is the absolute bottom of the barrel in this game. Even without AOE, Spies will still be more desirable than PEs, but that isn't saying much.

PE is the midpoint between tank and spy, and as such will always have its place in the game to those who want to use the pistols and rifles and not be as squishy as spy. They can still WoC using HC, lom over to desired subclass and destroy in pvp. People have been complaining about PEs being nerfed for years now and i have always laughed since i could run into p2 on my PE and go 1v2 with Dev Tanks and Dissi Spies while using my IAR, and even Ionic/X-bow before i swapped.

And getting WoC xp on an HC PE is actually pretty damn easy and fast, if done properly.

dWintermut3
25-10-12, 01:34
Heh thats probably the single worst idea I have ever heard.. Wipe all XP?!


I was using dramatic exagerration. Rather than a full wipe and re-do with fixes, the solution is not to punish people for being honest and to leave the drones, Ceres, and MC-5 as is, and punish people exploiting them rather than ruining the game for the honest people.

Dropout
25-10-12, 01:38
No Walker i am not kidding.

You cant honestly think Droning is easier than lobbing grenades off a wall into a pack of mobs..

Droning is really only good for 2 reasons.. 1. Fastest XP available for a Spy. 2. You dont have to worry so much about dying (though it still happens quite a bit.)
The down side to drones is huge! 1. ITS F'ING BORING!!! 2. ITS F'ING BORING!!! 3. Half of the NC world is considered a safe spot. 4. Limited ammo 5. ITS F'ING BORING!!! 6. Most drones suck, only good ones are the RK and the PN which is a rare.
The list of reasons to hate drones could go on for another paragraph im sure, but you get the point.

Droning is much easyer IMO.
Drones do not do their best to kill you - granade launchers do (people that walks infront of you).
You dont actually have to worry about getting pokes (downtime in leveling), because you wont die as a droner - at the very max you will Loose a drone.
Drones are cheap as hell and can be storebought without it having a big impact on the drone performance.
Sure there are not many different viable drones, but the ones that are viable does a fuckton of damage.

I definately do agree with you, that droning is boring though.

The Pope
25-10-12, 01:40
I have to point out the fact that we had fully capped people within a day of the server going live. We cannot hope to reach our goal of having a fair and balanced server when there is so many accusations of GMs capping people and giving items.

I cant say whether or not the GMs actually capped anyone, but i do know how long it takes to cap a tank, even when you have all your weapons laid out in your gogu and your attack plan scheduled, and even 2 days is a little too quick.

The Pope
25-10-12, 01:44
Droning is much easyer IMO.
Drones do not do their best to kill you - granade launchers do (people that walks infront of you).
You dont actually have to worry about getting pokes (downtime in leveling), because you wont die as a droner - at the very max you will Loose a drone.
Drones are cheap as hell and can be storebought without it having a big impact on the drone performance.
Sure there are not many different viable drones, but the ones that are viable does a fuckton of damage.

I definately do agree with you, that droning is boring though.

Thats personal preference then, but i think it has been shown many times over that leveling as a tank is quicker xp than droning.
No part of RK drones is cheap when you are leveling, and in most caves and regants droners actually die a lot. Its hard to grab agro on mobs that roam around and the chances of them roaming into you is moderately high.

Shooting yourself with nades is lulz.. LE saves you from a lot of that hassle, and learning to aim will save you from the rest, scrub. :p

I KID! I KID! <3 you Walker :D

Spoon
25-10-12, 01:44
Disabling AoE on drones has got to one of the worst "fixes" that I've ever read in any patchnotes, ever...

How are you going to balance or fix PvE/mob damage, just remove all mobs from the game except for the mutant type?

wtf?

Jeremy Morton
25-10-12, 01:46
But that was predictable from the moment Titan launched without patch 175 - that now was the time to abuse the system as much as possible before things.

That is the real fail here.

Titan should never have launched without 175.

Mokoi
25-10-12, 01:57
I have to point out the fact that we had fully capped people within a day of the server going live. We cannot hope to reach our goal of having a fair and balanced server when there is so many accusations of GMs capping people and giving items.

I cant say whether or not the GMs actually capped anyone, but i do know how long it takes to cap a tank, even when you have all your weapons laid out in your gogu and your attack plan scheduled, and even 2 days is a little too quick.

This is simply not true and it will not become true if you repeat it over and over again.
We have looked into this issue and triple checked GM activity. Now, I too have said this a few times: I do not take any attacks and rants against the teams ability to improve things or the overall state of Neocron personal, but if you publicly question the integrity of the people wasting a 40h/week on top of their regular jobs on keeping NC afloat for you with nothing but hearsay or spindoctored arguments to back it up, I wont let this happen. Please refrain from this in the future.




That is the real fail here.

Titan should never have launched without 175.

NC should have never been published by CDV, KK should not have been sold out to 10tacle, KK should have never diverted efforts from NC to BP,
KK should have never gone bancrupt, Some asshole should not have DDoSed NC causing a premature launch of Titan. I totally agree.


Now, one last thing on drones:

Do us all the favour and drop this topic for now. There is a ton of stuff that needs your attention on the Public Test Server and this panic laden nonsense is taking away the focus on stuff fixed AND stuff broken. We have rebuild major parts of the deployment and the testserver is a complete recompile that is bound to have issues that need to be identified, fixed and reviewed. Should we approach #175 retail and drones are not yet fixed - thats when I'll stop deleting "omg drone!!11" comments from this section. Until then, all has been said on that topic.

This is a testserver and everything is subject to change until we put up a release candidate patch for retail. Many have asked for a way to help Neocron make the transition to a better future - here is your chance. So please for the love of Crahn - stop the crusade and get to work. If you are just out to complain, this is not the place for it.

Faid
25-10-12, 02:00
[edit]

\\Fényx//
25-10-12, 02:03
Removing Aoe drones is the dumbest thing they could do at this point.

temporary measure on a test server, just wait it out and see what goes to retail

Doc Holliday
25-10-12, 02:38
Every time i clicked to turn a page i kept thinking one thought. This is a test server patch. This is excellent news and this reminds me of the good(bad) old days when someone had a change that they didnt like.

Its still a test server patch. Maybe another change comes in before it hits retail. In the mean time why cry about it on the forum when it hasnt happened. roll a droner and get levelling instead of bitching on the forum.

That said its nice to see passion from the community for their beloved nc even if it is somewhat misguided.

For people who are screaming about the "nerf" learn to play and adapt. there are other ways to level.

ancient
25-10-12, 02:45
I have to point out the fact that we had fully capped people within a day of the server going live. We cannot hope to reach our goal of having a fair and balanced server when there is so many accusations of GMs capping people and giving items.

I cant say whether or not the GMs actually capped anyone, but i do know how long it takes to cap a tank, even when you have all your weapons laid out in your gogu and your attack plan scheduled, and even 2 days is a little too quick.

I'm pretty sure no one was capped after 24 hours lol, if they were ... it's would probably of been a dev's alt or something. They too busy working on the game, and tbh I'd me more worried if they were spending loads of time leveling as it means less time on development. I still don't think anyone was capped that early, I was on from day one the minute the servers opened and didn't see people capping or getting close until about a week or mby 3-5 days after earliest.

BlueRobot
25-10-12, 06:40
Well, there was one guy, who had skillrank 62 on day 1, you could see it in the term's statistics. But as long as it's just one guy I don' t really care. Even though that guy may be a bitch, the guy who capped him certainly deserved to cap one of his friends by setting up the server.


As to the drones: It' certainly too late, but better than never. Maybe the GMs should just think about perma banning a few of the guys who obviously got a lot of stuff out of exploiting in the first weeks. The GMs know who they are or can easily find out. Maybe also ban a few of the ppl who were only temp banned or banned and then unbanned after begging the gms.

flib
25-10-12, 07:58
Well, there was one guy, who had skillrank 62 on day 1, you could see it in the term's statistics. But as long as it's just one guy I don' t really care. Even though that guy may be a bitch, the guy who capped him certainly deserved to cap one of his friends by setting up the server.I'm pretty sure that that was due to some error that he started out capped, not that he managed to exploit to cap on the first day.
It still bothers me that they let him keep that character, but if it's a GM's character, then I guess it's okay.


On topic:
I, for one, hope that the drone aoe nerf makes it to retail, even though I doubt that it will; it's pretty much what I've been asking for.
Yes, it doesn't do much for the ones who capped, wocced, and got their MC5's in the first week, but those guys will be banned soon enough. When they start banevading and bring their scumbag friends to Titan, they won't be able to just pound out another Spy in a couple days.

Even more than that, I'm loving the technical fixes in this patch! It's amazing to be able to alt-tab now! Just for this alone, I hope 165 makes it to retail right away. :)

MrWeedster
25-10-12, 10:13
Lets focus on the important things:

- Clipping is now pretty much non-existent. We testet this a bit yesterday by running fast around a corner. The one that is running is very good aim and hitable. We'll test this in the wastes on hills too.
Very very good work.

- PPU spells like heal need more time to cast. If you cast heal like before and switch to another spell, the heal doesnt arrive.
I dont know how to rate this. Some say it will kill PVP. Is this intended?

- Alt-Tab works without crashing now. On retail i have a 50% chance to fatal.
On test it didnt crash once, but i only alt-tabbed about ten times.

- Did you adress the reloading bug? Had no time to test.

- I dropped to the login screen pretty often yesterday. Login - play 5 sec, dropped out. That happend three times with about 10 drop-outs.

Ivan Eres
25-10-12, 10:58
- Did you adress the reloading bug? Had no time to test.


It's not mentioned in the patchnotes:
http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?146413-T-175-176-PTS-Patch-Notes

Maybe this will be addressed later. There are 2 threads in the bug section about this already.

Regards

CMaster
25-10-12, 11:35
There is a ton of stuff that needs your attention on the Public Test Server and this panic laden nonsense is taking away the focus on stuff fixed AND stuff broken. We have rebuild major parts of the deployment and the testserver is a complete recompile that is bound to have issues that need to be identified, fixed and reviewed. Should we approach #175 retail and drones are not yet fixed - thats when I'll stop deleting "omg drone!!11" comments from this section. Until then, all has been said on that topic.

This is a testserver and everything is subject to change until we put up a release candidate patch for retail. Many have asked for a way to help Neocron make the transition to a better future - here is your chance. So please for the love of Crahn - stop the crusade and get to work. If you are just out to complain, this is not the place for it.

Any priority issues to focus on/check?

löffel
25-10-12, 12:17
awesome that there is a patch :)

will it be downloaded and installed automatically? or how will that work?

Ascension
25-10-12, 13:13
As much as I would live my beloved APU class to be fixed, I'm even more glad that the patch features more technical based fixes. Alt+tab, clipping, world map etc. it's a fantastic start and I can't wait to see where things go!

Netphreak
25-10-12, 15:24
Every time i clicked to turn a page i kept thinking one thought. This is a test server patch. This is excellent news and this reminds me of the good(bad) old days when someone had a change that they didnt like.

Its still a test server patch. Maybe another change comes in before it hits retail. In the mean time why cry about it on the forum when it hasnt happened. roll a droner and get levelling instead of bitching on the forum.

That said its nice to see passion from the community for their beloved nc even if it is somewhat misguided.

For people who are screaming about the "nerf" learn to play and adapt. there are other ways to level.

You pretty much sounded up what I was thinking. I'm obviously worried that they might be just disabling things rather than the tackling the root cause but, this is a test server, making changes is what it is for, and at the end of the day these problems are being working on by volunteers who seem very passionate about the game and making the game better/more enjoyable for everyone.

DR REED
25-10-12, 20:30
Now, one last thing on drones:

Do us all the favour and drop this topic for now. There is a ton of stuff that needs your attention on the Public Test Server and this panic laden nonsense is taking away the focus on stuff fixed AND stuff broken. We have rebuild major parts of the deployment and the testserver is a complete recompile that is bound to have issues that need to be identified, fixed and reviewed. Should we approach #175 retail and drones are not yet fixed - thats when I'll stop deleting "omg drone!!11" comments from this section. Until then, all has been said on that topic.

This is a testserver and everything is subject to change until we put up a release candidate patch for retail. Many have asked for a way to help Neocron make the transition to a better future - here is your chance. So please for the love of Crahn - stop the crusade and get to work. If you are just out to complain, this is not the place for it.

At first, dear Mokoi: I am sure that a lot of people are absolute aware that this revitalization of Neocron just done by volunteers and complete with own ressources is holding these in high regard! This was amazing !

But: For years now we experienced infinite attempts to force drones & droners out of the game. And the arguments are always the same.

The simple question regarding the patch 175 is: How should we "test" something that is DISABLED ????

Is it a binary test in the form: "LIKE" or "DISLIKE" the remove of AoE drones ???




I have seen runners in-game with /36 chars waste their time, frapsing/reporting, and generally trying to be a GM telling other runners how to play.
Those runners are the reason the DEV team is applying this AOE removal in #175.
I fell these runners need to stop complaining to get the DEV to adjust the game to their styles of play.

This is sadly true ! I wonder why some player starts the revived Neocron 2.2 with denunciating other players all over the time.
The simple method to set every droner equal to a cheater/exploiter or every WOC capped player was exactly as annoying as wrong.

If you concern about weak game mechanics of software issues which can be used to DIRECTLY harms other player, bringing them at disadvantage, there are other, more severe issues you should be working on. Faster levvelling, faster gaining wealth & money are not these subjects, because Neocron has no other sinks other than TIME SINKS. Its only a question of time when players/chars are capped or rich.

In most cases droners have big disadvanges as well. They cannot loot, they are pretty worthless meat bags in pvp and easily found. The drones have no "JESUS-PPU" which is healing them if big mobs (with 2.2 highest damage outputs !?!) are hitting them.

So i fear that this "disabling" at the testserver will only the first step to make them worthless and unplayable like melee tanks. Or even more worthless than these.

A last comment from another point of view: SOLO PLAY & TIME SINKS

Droners are a very important element for solo playing. This does NOT mean that i am holding a pleading for "playing solo in an MMO". But there is a certain demand of contents for solo playing. I am working whole day and do not have 14 hours/day for grinding and wasting time to useless and boring "endless" leveling.

I know there a a lot of people (and not accidental these are very active here in the forums :)) that seems to have a lot of daytime for grinding. They have obviously no problem capping a char in the first year and reaching WOC level in the second to join OP fights in the 3rd year :P

But i am seriously doubting that these guys are the majority or that the game should be biased in their favour.

So:

- don't take drone playing out of the game
- don't make droners worthless and unplayable

This would be a capital damage for the game and another step to transfor it in a trashy copy of CS game.

Reed

Mokoi
25-10-12, 20:57
Obviously, we do not expect you to test items that are temporarily disabled on the testserver. The fix for these drones is not ready to be tested - thus they are disabled.
Drones are a unique weapon type in Neocron and a major feature that no one wants to remove or has plans to remove - your fears are, understandable as they may appear to others, absolutely unfounded.
Again - we want your attention on the testserver focussed on the other issues and general featureset / working of game mechanics.

Torg
25-10-12, 23:30
patch list is awesome, i'm really looking forward to more of that. in the meantime i'll level all my spy chars on rifle, pistol and hc (yes, heavy, and i was having a barnload of fun doing that) and enjoy it. really, i don't mind if aoe drones are removed or weakened forever, i dont care if any class isnt as imbalancedly leet as anyone would ask for. all i want is to play this wonderful game, and have a fun time with other people doing so, and i don't feel mercy for folks demanding to cap any chars in no time, so they will be bored sooner than anyone else. i really wish future patches will "flatten the top damage", so you dont need to wield the highest TL or grind to woc 5 in order to be able to pvp properly. like: remove the damage bonus for woc and cut the damage bonus for tech in half. and cut all aoe damage to 50 %. softcap everything. make tanks stronger and much, much slower (class speed penalty), and spys weaker (ie remove spy PA), so the PE would be viable again. just talking.

\\Fényx//
25-10-12, 23:57
make tanks stronger and much, much slower (class speed penalty)

agree'd with you up until that moment and saw red.

Think about it, that would completely revoke the point of a melee tank all together. Instead of a class penalty, just make having a heavy weapon out give the kind of runspeed reduction that it used to.

Dropout
26-10-12, 01:02
agree'd with you up until that moment and saw red.

Think about it, that would completely revoke the point of a melee tank all together. Instead of a class penalty, just make having a heavy weapon out give the kind of runspeed reduction that it used to.

The runspeed hit with HC weapon out is still pretty massive tbh.
However some people (myself included) spec a TON of ATL to counter it. This Hurts the resists A LOT btw..
On Terra my lowtech Dev tank has 75 energy specced and NOTHING else in resists (about 150 ATL IIRC - when drugged of course) - And I do not use resistor implants either.
This kinda setup will probably become pretty bad if the anticlipping Works as I kinda hope it does.

Torg
26-10-12, 11:32
In general: i believe this is a way to restructure classes in NC: make Tanks the slow and heavy soldiers, PEs the fast and light soldiers and spys, well, specialists. We dont really want to render melee totally obsolete, but want to bring back PEs, while breaking the assumed superiority of spys. One way to achieve this could be tying serious speed penalties (both ATL and AGL) to HC imps and PA, while bringing in a more restrictive speed softcap, so it wouldnt make real sense to waste to many skill points on speed.

löffel
26-10-12, 12:00
btw, in case this is a quick fix, please make continous firing work in hacknet with that patch :) see http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?146304-hacknet-attack-software-continious-fire-broken

MrWeedster
26-10-12, 12:04
Dont fuck with Tank runspeed, period.

Seriously, dont do it.

The reason is the fact that u have a two tier based hit system: Char skill and player skill to aim.

If you play a slugtank vs. lightning fast PE/Spys, you are way more easy hitable for them then they are to you, because they run circles around you, and are harder to hit, because of their runspeed.

Maybe a tank can take more shots from PE/Spy, but tanks dont have stealth.

Heck, when slugtank happens PE/Spys can easily run away from you without stealth.

In Op fight circumstances you as a tank have to be able to run away to recover. If you slug the tank there is no chance to run away.

What happens: Tanks die and you have PE/Spy/PPU Op fights.


I think all the runspeed discussion will be ending when clipping is no issue anymore.

William Antrim
26-10-12, 13:47
If anyone wants to know how to cap a spy without drones legitimately and brilliantly fast then send me a pm. It only costs 300k a pop.

Dropout
26-10-12, 13:54
If anyone wants to know how to cap a spy without drones legitimately and brilliantly fast then send me a pm. It only costs 300k a pop.

As a Rhino driver/repper? :p

@MrWeedster:
Yeah I agree that they should do anything to hurt tank damage. However I think that they should make it worth it to spec for resists.
As it is at the moment, I barely spec for resists on any classes, nor do I use resistor implants at all.
I just dont feel like I gain enough from speccing for resists - at all.

nabbl
26-10-12, 14:10
The runspeed hit with HC weapon out is still pretty massive tbh.
However some people (myself included) spec a TON of ATL to counter it. This Hurts the resists A LOT btw..
On Terra my lowtech Dev tank has 75 energy specced and NOTHING else in resists (about 150 ATL IIRC - when drugged of course) - And I do not use resistor implants either.
This kinda setup will probably become pretty bad if the anticlipping Works as I kinda hope it does.

Well ... if you get the enemies attention and lets say two spies are chasing you, you will holster your weapon anyway and run. It is the tanks "stealth". Clipping.

Only problem I see. If we adjust the runspeed, the spies could become more powerful as they are the only class able to evade combat.

slith
26-10-12, 14:31
Well ... if you get the enemies attention and lets say two spies are chasing you, you will holster your weapon anyway and run. It is the tanks "stealth". Clipping.

Only problem I see. If we adjust the runspeed, the spies could become more powerful as they are the only class able to evade combat.This, basically.

And: If updates on player movements come more frequently (left right sidesteps) Tanks are gonna have a hard time anyway. Dont make it worse by also reducing his runspeed.

Linear
26-10-12, 15:25
It takes 1-2 Dissy shots for spy to kill spy. How much shots it is for tank killing a spy? Yeeeah, nerf teh Tank damage for sure....

Atm spies are DD, and tanks, well, just something. They don't really tank much and don't really do much damage. Want to deal more damage? Sacrifice your speed/resists and become a pray. Want to be more tankable? Sacrifice your speed/damage and become a pray. Want to be fast? Sacrifice your resists and damage, get an arrow in the knee and become a pray. IMO tanks should be slightly adjusted in tanking or damage dealing.

Kame
26-10-12, 17:23
Just pointing out : tanks do almost as much damage as spys, especially in PVE.

The other day I was firemobs hunting, an my 210RC healing light spy was being outdamaged by a rav HC tank.

Tanks should not even approach the damage output of a spy, it should be under that.

Damage dealing : APU > SPY > TANK > PE

Damage intake : TANK > PE > SPY > APU

Deliberately taking PPU out of the equation here.

Netphreak
26-10-12, 18:04
Just pointing out : tanks do almost as much damage as spys, especially in PVE.

The other day I was firemobs hunting, an my 210RC healing light spy was being outdamaged by a rav HC tank.

Tanks should not even approach the damage output of a spy, it should be under that.

Damage dealing : APU > SPY > TANK > PE

Damage intake : TANK > PE > SPY > APU

Deliberately taking PPU out of the equation here.

That seems about right to me.

Torg
26-10-12, 18:50
Damage dealing : APU > SPY > TANK > PE
Damage intake : TANK > PE > SPY > APU
This is your opinion, i'd rather see:
damage: spy + hctank > apu + pe
defence: tank > pe > apu > spy

J@ck on Cr@ck
26-10-12, 19:44
This is your opinion, i'd rather see:
damage: spy + hctank > apu + pe
defence: tank > pe > apu > spy

I have to disagree with you. I guess you are a tank player why else would you want tanks to do the most damage AND have the beste defence? APU should do the most damage, since thats his purpose, and have the weakest defence.


Just because the Dissy is broken and its damage insane doesnt mean tanks should get a damage buff. What kame suggested is how things should be after the weapons have been balanced, not how things are now, keep that in mind. Tanks are not supposed to be the best DD (or do more damage than a spy), they have the best defence, hence the name tank.
I totally agree with what kame said.

Dribble Joy
26-10-12, 19:49
If PEs have the lowest offence, then they need the highest defence. At the moment tanks have pretty much the highest dmg, hp, armour, resists and implant bonuses.

J@ck on Cr@ck
26-10-12, 20:40
If PEs have the lowest offence, then they need the highest defence. At the moment tanks have pretty much the highest dmg, hp, armour, resists and implant bonuses.

Yes, you are right. But since PEs should be average in all skills I would suggest something like this after the weapons have been balanced:

Offence : APU > SPY > PE > TANK

Defence : TANK > PE > SPY > APU

Dropout
26-10-12, 21:33
Yes, you are right. But since PEs should be average in all skills I would suggest something like this after the weapons have been balanced:

Offence : APU > SPY > PE > TANK

Defence : TANK > PE > SPY > APU

The PEs should just gain their better (than tanks) defence from selfbuffs.. Although this obviously will fuck PEs over in opfights where there are PPUs, but IMO it should be something like PSI that gets PEs up and have a good defence..
Votes for major buff of the low level.. buffs.

Dribble Joy
26-10-12, 22:15
Although this obviously will fuck PEs over in opfights where there are PPUs
The age-old argument.

The biggest problem is that PEs gain the least from PPUs.

Reworking how PEs benefit from either PPUs or their own psi abilities is key to balancing the class in the wider spectrum.

Psi Shield and the Booster spells are an obvious avenue. Stacking higher spell versions of shields on lower ones also may work.

There's always the option of doing something with psi-resist as well.

Dropout
27-10-12, 00:01
There's always the option of doing something with psi-resist as well.

I usually have all my points in psi-resists, because its just too useless to use the low level psi stuff atm. And at the same time I currently gain A LOT more from using a Dex glove instead of a PSI glove.

Dribble Joy
27-10-12, 01:06
The defence benefits from the PE self-buffs are not small, even when using the low level shields.

It might only be a 10% reduction overall, but on top of resists and armour, that means going from 60% to 66%.

Seems like a small amount, but look at the damage taken:

100 dmg points received - 60% resist - 40 dmg points taken.
100 dmg points received - 66% resist - 34 dmg points taken.

34/40 = 85% of original dmg, 15% reduction.

slith
27-10-12, 02:53
Offence: APU > Tank = Spy > PE (= Melee Tank)
Defence (+ppu): Tank > PE > Spy > APU
Defence (solo): PE > Tank > Spy > APU

Spy and Tank even out because spy got stealth and more runspeed. The difference between damage of PE and Spy should be noticable, but not overwhelming.

And please do not think about roles like DD, Healer, Tank... that thinking ultimately ruined balancing and every hybrid or creative setup there is. Neocron should absolutely not look like that. There should not be any class limitations. Everyone should be able to use two weapon classes and be decent with it if he wishes and got the skills.


My opinion on how it should be:
GenTanks are designed for war. They should be best at it. The other classes have tradeskills, stealth, speed, hacking and/or nice solo efficiency, insane damage output.. Make it storyline all the way.

And FYI: I play everything but monks. I played PE PE when all others used TAR. I played HC Tank when a single Crossbow could kill 5 Tanks. I owned a fucking HC Spy. I'm not proposing this because I want my Tank to be ubar - I'm proposing this because Neocron was most fun and felt best in the Tank-o-Cron phase. And I want Hybrids back, even if they were overpowered, because killing a Hybrid in a duel was the most rewarding thing you could do.

BlueRobot
27-10-12, 04:05
What do you mean with Tankocron ?

If you want a real new balancing, you probably have to invest _A LOT_ more time and thinking than the little pieces of "advice" everyone here throws at the gms.

My suggestion would be to ask what everyone enjoyed most about each class/playstyle from 2001 until now. Then split balancing into PvE/Team-PvP/Solo-PvP and then resdesign it according to what everyone enjoyed the most.

You can only make everyone happy if you know what the complete picture should look like so you can consider the correlations between the changes/redesigns.

Doc Holliday
27-10-12, 05:43
, they have the best defence, hence the name tank.
I totally agree with what kame said.


That looks suspiciously like a wow/other generic mmo reference. Neocron predates wow and the "tank" in wow is not necessarily the tank in this game. They are similar in the sense that they are built to withstand a beating but dont ruin the class by nerfing their damage into oblivion because thats how they do it to blood elves.........

Daza400
27-10-12, 06:01
The problem with tanks vs. everyone else is right now the balance for weapons is this:
pistols used to be high damage, low range, low weapon lore reqs(they sort of still like this)
rifles are slightly less damage but max range and require a large amount of weapon lore to be effective

but then you have cannons which are just... all the above except slower

Dribble Joy
27-10-12, 12:47
I'd also try to avoid 'roles' for the classes and subclasses. A tank should be just as good as an APU or any other combat char in a fight. Otherwise you'll just end up with tankocron, monkocron, hybridocron or similar again.

William Antrim
27-10-12, 13:06
Put some damage over time back on some weapons then. That will counter the stealthers.

DER_julu
27-10-12, 14:22
imo the biggest problem you've got as a PE nowadays is the uselessness of lower TL lowtech weapons - ever tried a terminator ? the pain easer ? libby anyone ? even if you hit, you don't do enough damage to seriously get an opponents health down, since the TL40 healtool is pretty powerful. this makes resist-setups almost useless, at least that's how i experienced it as long as i played an PE (since 2.2, first on mars, now titan);
if you look at lower TL hightech-weapons, we got the RoG (for riflers) which is basically rubbish in PvP because most of the time the hits won't register (if they would, it would be a pretty sweet gun); that leaves you with 2 choices: sacrifice PSIuse to dex, and be a shittier version of a spy, or go woc. same with pistols, since the judge does almost zero damage as far as i remember, but i'd love to be corrected by anyone who knows more about this than me, i've not tested it yet...

solution: boost guns like the terminator with stacking damage as before; give them poison-mods (not sure about that one, but it might work), and boost the damage of guns like the judge. and if the RoG would work, that would be the absolute top icing of the cake.

p.s. yes, i know about and love the desperado, but as far as i remember even that one could do with a TINY boost in damage...

Kame
27-10-12, 15:07
A self buffed, dex based PE should be weaker than an unbuffed tank, but a self buffed psi based PE should be tougher, damage intake wise.

Dropout
27-10-12, 15:27
A self buffed, dex based PE should be weaker than an unbuffed tank, but a self buffed psi based PE should be tougher, damage intake wise.

A psi based PE wouldnt be able to do ANY kind of damage though.. So I dont see the point, at all..

Dribble Joy
27-10-12, 19:34
imo the biggest problem you've got as a PE nowadays is the uselessness of lower TL lowtech weapons
As mentioned in various threads, all the imps and items that add to main skills also add to sub skills. So the higher the tl of the weapon you are using, you're also better at using. Splitting the imps into +mainstat and +subskill would bring the low-techs into (better) contention.


that leaves you with 2 choices: sacrifice PSIuse to dex, and be a shittier version of a spy, or go woc. same with pistols, since the judge does almost zero damage as far as i remember, but i'd love to be corrected by anyone who knows more about this than me, i've not tested it yet...
Judge actually does good dmg, but is crippled by it's small clip and appalling accuracy with mid-lock. If it had a 40 round clip it would actually out dmg/time an xbow.


A psi based PE wouldnt be able to do ANY kind of damage though.. So I dont see the point, at all..
I think he means one using a dex glove to get higher tl weapons.

Dropout
27-10-12, 20:22
I think he means one using a dex glove to get higher tl weapons.

A self buffed, dex based PE should be weaker than an unbuffed tank, but a self buffed psi based PE should be tougher, damage intake wise.
Are you sure?

William Antrim
27-10-12, 20:54
This whole TC contributing to damage bullshit is what caused the problem for Low tech. Whoever suggested that idea clearly didnt think it through.

dWintermut3
27-10-12, 21:03
I'd also try to avoid 'roles' for the classes and subclasses. A tank should be just as good as an APU or any other combat char in a fight. Otherwise you'll just end up with tankocron, monkocron, hybridocron or similar again.

Quoted for absolute truth.


Based on almost 10 years of experience in over a dozen different MMOs, I've seen the pitfalls of "strong typing" firsthand. Unless the game's balance is absolutely impeccable the only real way to go is to equalize damage for all classes, and mostly equalize survivability using different methods.

The best way to achieve class "uniqueness" is in the "other stuff" they get and the method they use to go about doing said damage/getting said survivability.

In a traditional MMO a good way to preserve uniqueness is to give some classes their survivability through high avoidance (the stereotypical "rogue" role), some through stuns/mezzes/aggro control (the "mage" route) some through high armor and health pools (the "fighters" "warriors" etc) and some through self-healing (the "cleric" or "paladin").

Neocron can maintain its uniqueness and avoid traditional MMORPG typing but the end principle has to be the same for the game to work. Nanite-based healing/resist boosting, self-psi-healing, resists and self-resist-boosting, could all be tuned to give roughly the same "effective health pool" (health pool divided by incoming damage/second minus heal/second to give the effective combat lifespan of the character).

William Antrim
27-10-12, 22:12
Quoted for absolute truth.


Based on almost 10 years of experience in over a dozen different MMOs, I've seen the pitfalls of "strong typing" firsthand. Unless the game's balance is absolutely impeccable the only real way to go is to equalize damage for all classes, and mostly equalize survivability using different methods.

The best way to achieve class "uniqueness" is in the "other stuff" they get and the method they use to go about doing said damage/getting said survivability.

In a traditional MMO a good way to preserve uniqueness is to give some classes their survivability through high avoidance (the stereotypical "rogue" role), some through stuns/mezzes/aggro control (the "mage" route) some through high armor and health pools (the "fighters" "warriors" etc) and some through self-healing (the "cleric" or "paladin").

Neocron can maintain its uniqueness and avoid traditional MMORPG typing but the end principle has to be the same for the game to work. Nanite-based healing/resist boosting, self-psi-healing, resists and self-resist-boosting, could all be tuned to give roughly the same "effective health pool" (health pool divided by incoming damage/second minus heal/second to give the effective combat lifespan of the character).

The simplest most effective way to do this is to use Tech Level as the initial balancing of the weaponry with some form of uniform bonus/negative dependent on the class (ie pistols rifles and cannons). P.s In order to make Melee good it needs to have some insane rate of fire also. This I think would be the best way to simply benefit them from the lack of range.

Dribble Joy
28-10-12, 02:16
This whole TC contributing to damage bullshit is what caused the problem for Low tech. Whoever suggested that idea clearly didnt think it through.
Back in NC1 there wasn't any high tl low-tech weapons. If there were, then there would be no reason to spec TC if you could use a weapon of similar tl but wasn't high-tech.

As there are now high tl low-tech weapons (EoF, desperado, libra, craftman's dream, etc.), then TC has to be a meaningful investment.

Plus, how many high tech weapons are actually used aside from the ones that clearly have issues? Redeemer? FL? Exec? BoH? Slasher?

The issue is specific weapons, not low-tech as a whole. It doesn't help that the very highest tl weapons are high tech, which given the implant/PA system only promotes reaching for the highest tl possible.

William Antrim
28-10-12, 14:03
I am aware of NC1 I was here then :D

I prefer the old system is what I am saying. As a low tech pe I only need my Special Forces chip and my backbone to give me the required dex for my terminator. I didnt need to use PA - I actually preferred life without it. I could then dedicate my other brainslots to damage chips and resist chips. The speccing of tech combat while it was a points sink was worth doing because it got you access to the gucci guns. Happy with that sure. You paid a price in resists/agility and got more damage. Simple and effective.


Currently you have high tech combat which adds to damage for everyone with TC and then you have useless low tech weapons like the Craftsman's dream. Who the hell thought they would bring in a low tech spy! It pisses in the face of spies and pes have to drug like a madman and gimp to get up to that dex.

IMO low tech weapon TL's need to be lowered across the board and allow them all to be reachable earlier (across all of the disciplines). This way low tech users can have them at endgame with decent damage and high tech users can have something of a break from their normal run of guns and use something different to level with.

I stand on my previous comment however. The TC contribution to damage is bs. If there is a requirement for it contribute to damage (at all) then it needs to be reduced significantly. The damage output difference between my Wyatt Earp and my friends Storm Laser is almost 3x as much with roughly similar skills. I realise he has much higher HC probably than I do PC but seriously. I cannot quote exact figures but the two weapons are 2 TL's apart. The damage should be higher on a cannon I agree but not 300% more.

CMaster
28-10-12, 14:40
The issue isstill weapon balancing, not the TC contribution really. That said, the TC contribution does need to be looked at carefully - if it's easier to skill for TC weapons, then HT needs to lose any inherent bonus over LT for a start.

Dribble Joy
28-10-12, 15:40
The speccing of tech combat while it was a points sink was worth doing because it got you access to the gucci guns. Happy with that sure. You paid a price in resists/agility and got more damage. Simple and effective.

Currently you have high tech combat which adds to damage for everyone with TC
It only affects HT weapons, not LT. HT users have to give up points elsewhere so they either have lower AGL and/or PC/RC.
Just the same as before. It's simply a different sytle of weapons use.


and then you have useless low tech weapons like the Craftsman's dream. Who the hell thought they would bring in a low tech spy! It pisses in the face of spies and pes have to drug like a madman and gimp to get up to that dex.

IMO low tech weapon TL's need to be lowered across the board and allow them all to be reachable earlier (across all of the disciplines). This way low tech users can have them at endgame with decent damage and high tech users can have something of a break from their normal run of guns and use something different to level with.
What exactly is your argument? What's wrong with having high TL LT weapons? What wrong with LT spies? The whole point is to have viable choices across the board, high and low TL for both HT and LT users. The current system promotes highest TL possible and certain weapons are broken, TC is not the issue.


I cannot quote exact figures but the two weapons are 2 TL's apart. The damage should be higher on a cannon I agree but not 300% more.
Then find a suitable mob and test max dmg with the same ammo mod. Multiply by the RoF for the dmg/time and get a value for each weapon.

Dropout
28-10-12, 18:01
A lasercannon is a horrible weapon to compare damage to. Pretty much all laser weapons does WAY too much damage at the moment. Well rifles and cannons anyways..

William Antrim
28-10-12, 18:22
Lets not get pedantic about it. I clearly meant that TC affects High tech weaponry... the clue is in the title!

The very description of spies in the game doesnt fit well with low tech. It should be possible yes just the same as a melee spy is possible and the low tech spy should have higher damage than the low tech pe absolutely. He has a potential of 20 more dex levels. An extra 100 points to spend. My argument was never that. I made a casual observation that my fire modded Wyatt Earp was ripping off 80-90 points a shot on the Mad Stormbot compared to a cannon doing 2 rounds of 200+.

It doesnt need to get scientific and start speccing ammo mods and resists and all of the other precise stuff to see that there is room for balancing changes. Cmaster is right. Weapon balancing needs to be looked at. I hope that the patch does bring some fixes to the netcode or whatever the problem is with laser weapons and Ray weapons (pistol and rifle at least) to make these more viable once again.

Personally I preferred the old system. Low tech for the pes and reaching into some high tech weapons at top end with high tech being the spies domain. It just seems to fit better. I forget the actual blurb that I read all those years ago but it mentioned something about exotic weaponry being the spies domain.

I would prefer to see it left that way.

I would also like to see the AK converted to a single shot weapon and specced at dex 100 as well but we can all dream can't we.

Torg
28-10-12, 18:34
A lasercannon is a horrible weapon to compare damage to. Pretty much all laser weapons does WAY too much damage at the moment. Well rifles and cannons anyways..
i'm not with you here. i think laser damage output fits well in.

Dropout
28-10-12, 18:46
i'm not with you here. i think laser damage output fits well in.

You think that its a good idea, to be able to 4shot a spy with a Creed (and you are aware how fast it shoots, right?) ?
Or 2-3shot a spy with a HL?
The damage is fine for PvE, yes. but if we didnt have the netcode problems that we do, noone would use anything else than those two weapons.

Alduin
28-10-12, 19:20
Please discus patch T#177 in this thread. The patch notes can be found here (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?146460-T-177-PTS-Patch-Notes).

CMaster
28-10-12, 19:38
You want to work out how much the TC speccing matters?

Find a low tech and a high tech gun of the same level. Get 2 characters, one specs TC, the other not.
Now tell me the damage % on the two guns.

If there's a big discrepancy there, then yes, TC effecting damage matters. However I strongly suspect there isn't. The issue with your friend using the laser cannon is because laser beams are rather OP at the moment more than anything else.

Kame
28-10-12, 19:38
Personally I preferred the old system. Low tech for the pes and reaching into some high tech weapons at top end with high tech being the spies domain. It just seems to fit better. I forget the actual blurb that I read all those years ago but it mentioned something about exotic weaponry being the spies domain.



Judge, exec and slasher PEs used to be viable in 2.0, 2.1.

I disagree with what you say you think PEs should be.

William Antrim
28-10-12, 20:27
Judge, exec and slasher PEs used to be viable in 2.0, 2.1.

I disagree with what you say you think PEs should be.

You just agreed with me in the first sentence and then disagreed in the second. Judge and Slasher yes but imo Executioner should be a spy only weapon. I was a Judge PE all the way through NC1. Slasher at its current level I prefer. The old one was just like the Disruptor of todays NC. OP.

Cmaster the one fatal flaw in your plan is one of the guns I was originally talking about does not have a tech combat requirement on it. The other does. Therefore your point is null and void. I am not talking about how much it affects damage as you would never be able to test this. One of the guns would require tech combat and the other would not and therefore TC would not be an issue.

I would like the changes to reflect that of the change from MST to Focussing. IE affect RoF only.

If TC absolutely has to have an effect on some stat or other within NC then I would rather it affect RoF only please. If guns are balanced via tech level as I have previously asked for and then adjustments made dependent on weapon type then TC can be easily added to the mix as a bonus buff. Rof buffs would essentially be evenly and fairly applied across the board in the most uniform way possible. Yes I understand it makes the weapons more FPS-like but if you balance guns in the simplest way possible you can achieve the level playing field that EVERY single one of us desires.

CMaster
28-10-12, 21:15
Cmaster the one fatal flaw in your plan is one of the guns I was originally talking about does not have a tech combat requirement on it. The other does. Therefore your point is null and void. I am not talking about how much it affects damage as you would never be able to test this. One of the guns would require tech combat and the other would not and therefore TC would not be an issue. .

I thought your whole point was that HT weapons were better than LT because the fact that TC effects damage. So my point was to see what %dmg someone using a hitech setup got on a hitech gun, and someone with a lowtech setup got on a lowtech gun, with the important factor (TL) controlled. And it wouldn't be heard to determine - you just do a "show info" on the gun and see what the damage % is. If there was a big discrepancy in the values, then we could see that TC was

However, it would seem (http://www.techhaven.org/resources/weapon-guides/2.2-weapon-skill-influence-guide.html) that you are wrong about both TC and Focus. TC is everything except damage, while FCS is everything.

William Antrim
28-10-12, 22:00
If that is a confirmed fact and has made it into the current game mechanics then I concur. Quite happy to admit I learned something new today. I was under the impression that TC was the contributing factor to the huge damage output for TC weapons compared with Low tech. For that I apologize.

However the end point I would like to get to remains the same. Tech Combat weaponry should only offer minor benefits over its low tech counterpart. In my original very un-scientific example one of the guns was a rare weapon, the Wyatt Earp. The other was a non-rare weapon. The discrepancy between the two was huge which led to my original gripe. I would like to see these issues addressed.

CMaster
28-10-12, 22:24
As said, thats a weapon balancing issue - the fact that Damage/time values for weapons are all over the place (with say, semi-auto pistols being much worse than laserbeam cannons), rather than anything to do with skill influence factors (which, seeing as it's pretty easy to get ~130% damage on most weapons, and next to impossible to get past ~155%, wouldn't explain the gap you describe anyway.

(Oh and yes, the damage% is a simple multiplier on the weapon damage)

Netphreak
29-10-12, 00:29
Judge, exec and slasher PEs used to be viable in 2.0, 2.1.

I disagree with what you say you think PEs should be.

Yes a PE could use an exec or a slasher but they had to trade some of the AGL or resist setup to attain the high level of dex, p-c and t-c required. (unless they just drugged for them that is)

Spies could use them much more easily but then they didn't have access to anywhere near the resists/protection a PE could have, so it was fair.

William Antrim
29-10-12, 01:08
Yes a PE could use an exec or a slasher but they had to trade some of the AGL or resist setup to attain the high level of dex, p-c and t-c required. (unless they just drugged for them that is)

Spies could use them much more easily but then they didn't have access to anywhere near the resists/protection a PE could have, so it was fair.

QFT.

I want NC1 back.

\\Fényx//
30-10-12, 23:32
Is the dx 7 removal in preparation of supporting some dx9 shader tech ?

Mokoi
31-10-12, 01:27
Is the dx 7 removal in preparation of supporting some dx9 shader tech ?

You may have noticed the addition of AA already in T#175.
Dx7 accounts for a big chunk of code that not only needs to be tested and maintained for backwards compatibility, but also for anything that is still to come down the road. As for when or what that may be... you know the drill: when its done™

\\Fényx//
31-10-12, 01:29
You may have noticed the addition of AA already in T#175.
Dx7 accounts for a big chunk of code that not only needs to be tested and maintained for backwards compatibility, but also for anything that is still to come down the road. As for what or what that may be... you know the drill: when its done™

Ohh dont tease like that, are we finally gonna see some normal's and specular ingame ? will love you long time ! (hell I will even make all the normal/spec maps for you if thats an issue to, its what i do lol...)

Dribble Joy
31-10-12, 01:31
Tech Combat weaponry should only offer minor benefits over its low tech counterpart.
It should provide NO benefits over LT. That's the whole point. HT requires TC skilling, which lowers the main combat skilling. The two need to even out so that HT and LT are of equal power regardless of TL.

Apocalypsox
31-10-12, 02:13
Interesting. Took some drones to MC5 to test things out, the mobs are pretty damn accurate and shoot at you before you actually peak around a corner.

ancient
31-10-12, 20:56
It should provide NO benefits over LT. That's the whole point. HT requires TC skilling, which lowers the main combat skilling. The two need to even out so that HT and LT are of equal power regardless of TL.T-C weps
(at least on H-C tanks) should do slightly more dmg to compensate for the speed loss from having to spec T-C.

Dribble Joy
31-10-12, 21:05
HC/MC HT weapons are indeed another issue entirely.

Oxygen
31-10-12, 22:55
but but with Dx9 there are no mirrors anymore and Viarosso apps looking awesome with Dx7 but with Dx9 they are pretty ugly :P

Drachenpaladin
31-10-12, 23:17
but but with Dx9 there are no mirrors anymore and Viarosso apps looking awesome with Dx7 but with Dx9 they are pretty ugly :P

... Lol... That there are no mirrors in DX9 is not a problem of DX9 itself but its implementation in the games engine... So i'd at this point put faith into the coding team that they get the eye candy stuff running...

And even if not... thats a pretty low priority issue. By the time we reach this part of the to-do-list we will have a DX11 NC3 :p

Netphreak
01-11-12, 16:09
Interesting. Took some drones to MC5 to test things out, the mobs are pretty damn accurate and shoot at you before you actually peak around a corner.

Sounds like one of those age old issues NC has, mobs shooting you before actually 'seeing' you/being argo'd by you.
It's as annoying as mobs being able to accurately hit you half way across a zone, yet even if you're a rifle user you can't even hit them.

Alduin
12-11-12, 21:06
Please discus patch T#178 in this thread. The patch notes can be found here (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?146582-T-178-PTS-Patch-Notes). The focus of this patch is the new, updated interpolation/clipping thingy, therefore do as much PvP on the PTS as possible.

William Antrim
12-11-12, 21:19
Ah man this is amazing.

Powerpunsh
12-11-12, 23:41
Oh my god. That positioningupdate is awesome!!!
Ive tested it on duallog and the delay feels like 200-500ms and every action on ur char gets transfered. Movement becomes important again. Please think about runspeed otherwise we got some super speedy runners with crazy movement who cant even get hit by pro gamers.

Alduin
20-11-12, 00:59
Please discus patch T#178 in this thread. The patch notes can be found here (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?146627-T-179-PTS-Release-Candidate-1-Patch-Notes). The focus of this patch are the updated interpolation/clipping thingy, as well as the psi casting issues, therefore do as much PvP on the PTS as possible.

Ghostface_Speak
20-11-12, 02:06
Did a quick test on the Droning and i'd say it is way better than before,useable now even if you get shot at.

Mr. Kassad
20-11-12, 07:51
I ran some PPU spell-casting tests and it was smoother indeed. I did not fail one cast even though I switched between spells pretty fast. The tweak seems to work.

Alduin
26-11-12, 21:39
Please discus patch T#180 in this thread. The patch notes can be found here (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?146668-T-180-PTS-Release-Candidate-2-Patch-Notes). The focus of this patch is the server's stability.

Slauncha
Alduin

Pinoccio
27-11-12, 17:15
Please discus patch T#180 in this thread. The patch notes can be found here (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?146668-T-180-PTS-Release-Candidate-2-Patch-Notes). The focus of this patch is the server's stability.

Slauncha
Alduin

What is with ppu casts? did u increase the cast rate for retail server???

Trivaldi
27-11-12, 17:35
What is with ppu casts? did u increase the cast rate for retail server???
Please provide some details - what are you experiencing?

DER_julu
27-11-12, 17:44
is the server currently offline ? can't seem to access it...

Alduin
27-11-12, 19:04
What is with ppu casts? did u increase the cast rate for retail server???

No, casting frequency will not be touched, since the "clipping" fix and the overcasting fix shifted the overall balance already quite alot. Before we start the rebalancing project, we have to first of all see how the aformentioned fixes changed balancing. However, rest assured the patching frequency will increase after the release of R#175 and we will monitor the problem closely after the launch of R#175. More details on the rebalancing project will follow in next month's development update.

William Antrim
27-11-12, 19:22
Oh man seriously this makes me so excited.

Doc Holliday
28-11-12, 03:36
more details on the rebalancing project will follow in next month's development update.



early xmas present!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :d