View Full Version : Why should people join? PROS/CONS + Questions
I am trying to make a pro/con life of this game to really understand why I, or any new/old player should come to this game. Let me break down the pro/cons for ME.
Pros:
-Free to play
-Record numbers
-New server (all-around better)
-Classic game (great system, FPS pvp w/ first person MMO post-apoc vintage feel)
Cons:
-Cheating/exploiting of terra returns
-2.2 is probably the worst version of NC (2.0, 2.1, or even NC1 were better) - why not reroll?
-Little balance in PvE, both in weapons (pistol, melee) AND in classes (APU/PE) are weaker
-Same poor coding (sync, positioning, clipping)
-Dated graphics
-Leveling revolves around who can outplay the game mechanics best (hiding/avoiding damage)
-Very unsupportive community (sure, HELP channel is nice...but the trade/interaction is very poor)
-Lack of new, improved content
-Much better games, despite being free to play, much better f2p games and pay to play games
Note: I understand this list isnt what everyone else thinks, but this is how I feel and I wish more was done for this game. I am trying to figure out how to expand the PRO list more. I feel most people use the last two points on PROS to justify all the CONS.
GMs/Mods: Why are you doing to increase the Pros?
Players: What more do you think should be done for this game to increase retention/desire to play?
From this and your last 2 threads, you clearly dont have any idea what is going on around here.
People dont use the last 2 Pro's points to justify the condition of the game, they use the fact that KK have gone insolvent twice and the game is run by volunteers who have limited ability to push the game forward to justify the condition.
Record numbers? Incorrect lol
dWintermut3
22-10-12, 03:54
I have faith many of Neocron's issues will be solved in time, but it takes patience.
We have a volunteer team who put in work for no personal reward (well not monetary anyway) and have to have regular full-time jobs.
Some of your big cons up above are problems with the engine itself. Fixing a problem like that would be a big job for a full-time dev team with many specialist programmers. writing professional-grade, hack-resistant, efficient and low-bug (no code will EVER be bug-free) netcode that can handle hundreds of users and their interactions is a daunting task even for people working days as long as it takes without the concerns of having a life outside of their programming job.
Balance issues take dozens of testers that work out all possible combinations as well as mathematical modeling and statistical analysis. Balance issues are further hemmed in by what parameters CAN be changes within the strictures of the code. Great example there, it's weaknesses in the netcode that hamper melee's effectiveness. Until the netcode is fixed melee will never be properly balanced.
Updating the graphics would require a brand new engine entirely. And let me tell you something about engine coding, you need someone with a background in as much math as programming unless you're licensing physics engines. Even IF you license the physics you're looking at thousands of man-hours of work for a modern high-def game engine.
Since no other game out there is LIKE neocron they can't just buy off-the-shelf, and even if they could there's no way they could spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to license an engine.
You want to look at what MOST small teams can do, realistically, take a look at a game like sociolotron, developed by one guy (warning it's an X-rated MMO). Its graphics make Ultima Online look like Skyrim.
It's a minor miracle that we have a dev competent enough to keep this game running as well as it does. Especially when most of their time is spent putting out fires caused by people that try to beat up on their old code like a man attacking a vending machine with a crowbar in hopes it spits out something free.
GMs/Mods: Why are you doing to increase the Pros?
Well lets have a look at your list of CONs:
-Cheating/exploiting of terra returns
This will always be a cat and mouse game. The upcoming patch will fix some serious issues here.
We have already beefed up security a lot and have more serverside log wizardry going on than at any time before and are also a lot less hesitent to close down accounts.
This is all there is to say on this topic for now, so I expect folks to play by the rules and not go into this topic any further.
-2.2 is probably the worst version of NC (2.0, 2.1, or even NC1 were better) - why not reroll?
While many people will agree with you in terms of gamebalance, it has to be aknowledged that between NC1 and now a lot of bugs and broken features were fixed.
If you put aside the rose tinted glasses for a minute and take a look at the entire patchlog, you will see that reverting the codebase to an earlier stage makes little sense (apart from the fact that it is technically not feasible). Balancing is something we will address, once other major issues are resolved (stability, security, major bugs).
-Little balance in PvE, both in weapons (pistol, melee) AND in classes (APU/PE) are weaker
See above - we aknowledge that 2.2 left the gamebalance in a state far from what it should be.
-Same poor coding (sync, positioning, clipping)
The first fixes regarding this are already in our current development branch.
-Dated graphics
Being addressed as well, although it would be foolish to expect NC 2 to be able to compete with recent AAA games, when its initial development dates back to the late 1990s.
If you value fapworthy graphics over fun and originality, NC is probably not what you want.
-Leveling revolves around who can outplay the game mechanics best (hiding/avoiding damage)
PvE in Neocron revolves around a great sense of immediate control over the fighting.
This immediate control and the importance of LoS and cover make it vulnerable to badly layed out map geometry.
Something that needs fixing for sure, but to a large extend, PvE is what you make it to be.
-Very unsupportive community (sure, HELP channel is nice...but the trade/interaction is very poor)
Overall, I am very fond of this community and the fact that Neocron has survived its publisher(s) and developer studio is a testament to the community commitment.
The community is not well represented by who screams loudest on ingame chat.
-Lack of new, improved content
Neocron has a pretty large gameworld already, not to speak of the different aspects of gameplay (crafting system comes to mind).
Adding more items and quests is surely never a bad idea, but our focus for now is clearly on fixing what is broken in terms of game mechanics and balance.
Still, new storycontent is being prepped.
-Much better games, despite being free to play, much better f2p games and pay to play games
Blasphemy.
this is how I feel and I wish more was done for this game.
Keep in mind that a few months ago we were just an inch away from closing the doors for good.
Bottom line: I think we, the community at large and specifically the bunch of die-hard contributors that I could not be prouder of, have pulled off quite a u-turn already and things are only ever going to get better.
RogerRamjet
22-10-12, 04:31
Keep in mind that a few months ago we were just an inch away from closing the doors for good.
Bottom line: I think we, the community at large and specifically the bunch of die-hard contributors I could not be prouder of, have pulled off quite a u-turn already and things are only ever going to get better.
Mokoi wins the thread.
Record numbers? Incorrect lol
For 2012 our concurrent user numbers are getting better and better, before the current Neocron Support Team started rebuilding, peak server usage was 2% far from the 41% we reached tonight. Each time that percentage increases we as a team certainly feel like we're breaking records.
-Lack of new, improved content
This takes time. While we have a lot of ideas, being able to realise those ideas and bring them in game is quite a process. As Mokoi states above, we do have plans for new storyline and other content, but right now there's a focus on getting the current content working as it should. That's another area in which we've squished a good number of bugs/issues in our current development version.
Less time answering tickets regarding a bugged mission or a faulty spawn, thanks to fixes in a patch, is more time to develop new content.
Mokoi wins the thread.
This.
Doc Holliday
22-10-12, 05:49
Between the compensation thread, I told you so thread and now this thread you are the front runner for this years Mensa award clearly.
What exactly did you aim to achieve with this thread other than what you already have. 1. To piss off some members of the community with the crap you talk (me and im sure others are in agreement) 2. To piss off the mods/gms (while you will never hear it publicly they are all human and i know after reading your post what i thought. difference is i am allowed to say it, up to a point.) and 3. making yourself look like a total fool in the process.
That is 3 big shiny gold stars right there but you probably think that's a good thing right.
I am Tommy Lee Jones and im looking at you over my news paper giving you "that" look. please take a break from posting any more shit like this. its not necessary.
For 2012 our concurrent user numbers are getting better and better, before the current Neocron Support Team started rebuilding, peak server usage was 2% far from the 41% we reached tonight. Each time that percentage increases we as a team certainly feel like we're breaking records.
i think he just worded/ spaced his words badly.
I think he meant the record numbers to be justification for the teams good work/ the game not being perfect,
I dont think he was saying there arent record numbers.
Between the compensation thread, I told you so thread and now this thread you are the front runner for this years Mensa award clearly.
What exactly did you aim to achieve with this thread other than what you already have. 1. To piss off some members of the community with the crap you talk (me and im sure others are in agreement) 2. To piss off the mods/gms (while you will never hear it publicly they are all human and i know after reading your post what i thought. difference is i am allowed to say it, up to a point.) and 3. making yourself look like a total fool in the process.
That is 3 big shiny gold stars right there but you probably think that's a good thing right.
I am Tommy Lee Jones and im looking at you over my news paper giving you "that" look. please take a break from posting any more shit like this. its not necessary.
Very, very well said.
Forget My Name
22-10-12, 07:03
I am trying to make a pro/con life of this game to really understand why I, or any new/old player should come to this game. Let me break down the pro/cons for ME.\
Thank you for making a thread that lets us understand your point of view concerning the game. I will answer some of your concerns with my own opinions.
Pros:
-Free to play
Many of us older Neocronites would actually rather pay for the game in some way. The people currently working on the game are doing so for free, and I hope one day that we can revert the game back to a pay to play model.
-Record numbers
Yeah, just keep in mind when Neocron first went retail, servers couldn't handle when population numbers were nearing 500 people. I am very, very happy that the game seems to be supporting 400+ people without incident at the moment.
Cons:
-Cheating/exploiting of terra returns
Yeah, but the developers and moderators are trying their best to make sure they deliver fair justice. They work jobs, have families and work on neocron when they can. They can only do so much with their free time, and what they are doing to stamp out exploiters, is very commendable.
I mean, they are already physically fixing and redoing in game environments to make sure exploiting is being kept to a minimum. We can't ask for much more than that really.
-2.2 is probably the worst version of NC (2.0, 2.1, or even NC1 were better) - why not reroll?
2.2 is just what we have from a balancing project that never got finished. I don't like 2.2, but, in time, it'll get sorted out.
-Little balance in PvE, both in weapons (pistol, melee) AND in classes (APU/PE) are weaker
See my previous opinion.
-Same poor coding (sync, positioning, clipping)
Same poor coding because it is the same game. Really not much to it other than that.
-Dated graphics
Yup. But I love it's ugliness. Such charm and atmosphere.
-Leveling revolves around who can outplay the game mechanics best (hiding/avoiding damage)
This is true for every single game ever made that involves leveling.
Are you one of those people who get mad at my tank for ducking behind a hill or box for cover? Are you one of those people who expect the game to be a flat plane with nothing in it? Just me, an NPC and the ground? And we have to be in melee range too, right?
-Very unsupportive community (sure, HELP channel is nice...but the trade/interaction is very poor)
I find this community very supportive. more so than any other mmo I have ever played. Why? The low population count means you know people. In GUild Wars 2, how many strangers do you think I made friends with in a month and kept tabs with? zero. Just today in neocron I met 3 new people whom I added to my buddy list, and whom I know will be on tomorrow to hang out with.
-Lack of new, improved content
I find this funny actually... One of my biggest gripes with the old developer team was that they kept adding TOO MUCH content instead of stamping out bugs in the code. NC1 doesn't have half the content we have now.
-Much better games, despite being free to play, much better f2p games and pay to play games
This point makes no sense since you can tack this on to any game ever made.
Players: What more do you think should be done for this game to increase retention/desire to play?
Finish the balancing for 2.2 that was never finished.
Redistribute mobs across the wastes in a more progression based sense.
Roc-a-fella
22-10-12, 09:14
hey i randomly remembered my old account
Playing NC for about 4 years. There were clans of cheaters, tons of exploiters, no GM support in ages, bunches of trolls, 3 ppl online periods - NC survived that all. This game is epic - never saw anything even close to similar. Shut up and play or GTFO my Neocron.
TGUU - Who are your ingame characters? and where are you most likely to level?
^ and the one above.
+1.
I would dare to say epic is an understatement though.
Woo, 666 posts. I think i may have to stop posting.
Playing NC for about 4 years. There were clans of cheaters, tons of exploiters, no GM support in ages, bunches of trolls, 3 ppl online periods - NC survived that all. This game is epic - never saw anything even close to similar. Shut up and play or GTFO my Neocron.
agreed +1
Roc-a-fella
22-10-12, 11:36
playing nc for about 4 years. There were clans of cheaters, tons of exploiters, no gm support in ages, bunches of trolls, 3 ppl online periods - nc survived that all. This game is epic - never saw anything even close to similar. Shut up and play or gtfo my neocron.
q-f-t
I guess it's hard to sell neocron to new people. Always has been, always will be.
I been playing beta and NC1 as TG on Mars. Back then I also tried to get my friends to play it - without success.
What I heard was often like
WTF, you're supposed to kill a roach with that knife, but it's impossible to aim. F*ck that I stick to Anarchy Online
Or the graphics were too ugly (yes, even in 2002).
IMO there were three possible ways to fall in love with NC:
Atmosphere & the faction system.
I started TG in NC1. Due to all TG starting (and remaining) in the canyon, everyone was in character. We had only one character, most other players were red to us, and copbots would shoot us if we went to town. This caused that everybody acted like a proper TG - knowingly or not. The faction system in NC1 is a piece of brilliant game design. (Apart from CM, their role wasn't really enforced by the system. So you had to 'roleplay' a proper CM).
The game mechanics.
How you can skill you char, all the gear options you have to build the character you want, the actual combat system. In NC1 the aiming circle was contracting a lot slower than nowadays, so you had to make sure you did not lose focus. That was challenging, but also rewarding once you mastered that. Even though aiming is easy for all players now, it's still fun to do what you do in neocron IMO.
3. end game content.
There is just so much to do and to try out once you can kill *** mobs. Both PvE and PvP can keep you entertained for a long time.
The faction system no longer is working the way it was in NC1 for me. Everyone has multiple chars in different factions so that there is no faction identification no more. FSM items require you to be friendly with everyone. And it's too hard to take OPs (in terms of that you need multiple hackers), so that it's easy to stop caring about establishing and definding faction claims.
The game mechanics are still fun. Unfortunately new players have no way of knowing that. A lot of newbie weapons are close to unuseable (try make a new droner or pistol user!). Killing roaches is not easy even with a capped char. And killing aggies (what everyone suggests) is really hard before you can wear armor aswell.
End game content is also fun, but again... hard to bait new players with that. :)
See no Evil
22-10-12, 13:30
Message to dev team :
Keep up the good work ! It's a real pleasure to play NC again, bring back memories ...
Thank you for that !
If you value fapworthy graphics over fun and originality, NC is probably not what you want.
Anyone else feel like this should be the forum headline? :D
Actually I think it would've been better to use Titan just as a kind of "testserver" (free xp and items) until some gamebreaking bugs had been solved.
(But maybe they had an internal one with nabbl on it and he said everything was ok)
I don't get it. Was this a leaving thread or no?
Drachenpaladin
22-10-12, 15:56
I don't get it. Was this a leaving thread or no?
Does it matter?
Actually I think it would've been better to use Titan just as a kind of "testserver" (free xp and items) until some gamebreaking bugs had been solved.
(But maybe they had an internal one with nabbl on it and he said everything was ok)
thats exactly what it was, but ddos kinda made them do something a lil earlier than planned
Nonsense
I had an epic response lined up to the OP, but posting it would have put me at risk of a forum ban.
You have me on ignore in game already; probably best you do the same on the forum.
I had an epic response lined up to the OP, but posting it would have put me at risk of a forum ban.
You have me on ignore in game already; probably best you do the same on the forum.
Theres also this post of his in the brianport:
http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?146379-Game-is-unplayable-due-to-unfair-play-Why-keep-playing
Mokoi got there first though lol...
http://www13.mediafire.com/convkey/ce2f/pxchz65c7lds527fg.jpg
I think everything else has been said. One thing I'll say about the NC community is most people do care about this game and they also rock. :D
Pro's
IT'S THE BEST DAM GAME EVER !!!!!!111one
Con's
once the crack bites RL is a problem :)
As Mokoi states above, we do have plans for new storyline and other content, but right now there's a focus on getting the current content working as it should.
Music to my ears :D:D:D
Common sense is always the way to go, you don't build a house starting with roof :).
The game needs a Solid foundation and once that's working like clockwork, then is the time to add a bit of jazz.
Work is much appreciated guys :D
PS. Don't be too harsh on the OP he/she cares about the game like the rest of us, but we need to let the dev team get on with their work. As time responding to threads like this is time taken away from development. (I'm guilty of venting myself it's just NC is an addiction :mad: :p)
I think you can't get the game back to day 1, most players are used to play and they levelled too many chars. You could maybe wipe the server but not their knowledge therefore they rushing to use the easiest way to max their chars out.
I think you can't get the game back to day 1, most players are used to play and they levelled too many chars. You could maybe wipe the server but not their knowledge therefore they rushing to use the easiest way to max their chars out.
Well that's what they did with 2.2, the way they changed absolutely everything with regard to armour, implants and weapons...
Doc Holliday
22-10-12, 23:43
TGUU - Who are your ingame characters? and where are you most likely to level?
;) i know exactly what you are thinking. :)
;) i know exactly what you are thinking. :)
/sex hookup? ;p
William Antrim
23-10-12, 14:09
Why should people join? Why should people play?
I can see where the OP is coming from... but that is because I have recently developed the talent to also manage to operate a keyboard with my head that far up my arse.
When I come home from work of an evening I look at my pc stood in my room and the first thought that pops into my head is... Neocron.
That is the reason why I play and I think that that will be the same for most everyone else here. It is the same reason that I think new players will come and play and attempt to get past the initial hiccups of this game.
If it is attention you seek by making these really silly threads then post up your address and I will come over and give you a hug but please think before you troll the entire community with such absolute codshit drivel.
If NC ever needed a whipping boy to replace Qeeqaek I think we have one now.
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