View Full Version : Exploit confusion
Jackie crack
20-10-12, 00:33
Hear it all day and night on nc, 'your an exploiter', 'he's and exploiter' bla bla bla.....
Its not made clear to the commuity exactly what is classed in game as 'exlpoiting'
I read the neocron rules of conduct and all i can find is:
15) You will not exploit any bug in the NEOCRON product or the NEOCRON Service to gain unfair advantage in the game and you will not communicate the existence of any such bug (either directly or through public posting) to any other user of the NEOCRON Service.
thats it!
I have recently been accused of exploiting in the doy tunnels by another runner for standing on the ladder out of line of sight from mobs... but this is not always safe here i have died plently of times after a drone is blown up or drop to change a drone.
El farid behind the walls?? is this safespotting.. because sure is alot of people doing it, yet its regarded a safe spot but is it exploit??
I'd like some people to share some views about what they believe are exploits with regards to droning, an official response to this post would be nice too as i would image we'd all like a bit of clarificaton on the matter.
I was accused of safespotting and im confused, arent droners meant to safespot? they send a remote weapon into combat while they hide in a safe location where they're less likely to be attacked ???
Is there a more in depth explaination as to what is regarded as exploiting we can refer to?
Are droners aloud solo level in doy tunnels? like mc5 + ceres was shut down because of easy pickings from droners but why not the tunnels?
Im so bloody confused ...
Dribble Joy
20-10-12, 00:39
arent droners meant to safespot?
Body 'yes', drone no.
Safespotting is the act of attacking from a position where you cannot be harmed (be that meat-sack or drone).
Use of terrain is not safespotting if the mob can move to attack you.
Unfortunately many areas (especially the MC5 room and many dungeons), enabled droners (and in some cases anyone) to kill mobs with no risk at all as the mobs simply could not target anything.
Jackie crack
20-10-12, 01:00
sometimes the dont shoot at you they just run around a bit looking up and re locating themselves. I also use corners and aoe close to corner and they might stay there for a while before they come round.
I go down there with 20 or so drones and come back with none provided i survive that long. The defence units
will sometimes hit in stealth randomly also. Its certainly not without risk
Well, as what DJ has said, for droner's, the safe-spotting applies to the drone, and not the body.
what about semi-safespotting, where mobs can hit you but only so at a certain angle so you get hit but way less???
what about semi-safespotting, where mobs can hit you but only so at a certain angle so you get hit but way less???
Are you refering to: http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?146011-Cyclop-Launchers-can-t-hit-Drone
If so, nothing official has been said regarding that particular 'feature' :)
Jackie crack
20-10-12, 01:16
This is why i'v called for a official response from the team, needs to be addressed and the community needs to be made aware of the situation in more detail so we can level knowing we are not breaking any rules and people stop shouting exploit all over the show.. pissing me off i dont know about anyone else
J@ck on Cr@ck
20-10-12, 01:19
what about semi-safespotting, where mobs can hit you but only so at a certain angle so you get hit but way less???
They can still target and damage you if they move, so I dont see a problem there. Everybody is trying to minimize the damage they take in order to survive longer. Why would you willingly take a beating from 6 mobs when you can move in a position where only 2 can hit you at the same time?
people who don't play the game fairly are scum
The need to be the best brings out the worst qualities in people.
Was at MB other day and witnessed a runner using the guards (being anti-cm) to level their con. Using genrep, getting killed and repeating.
dWintermut3
20-10-12, 01:29
standing in the open firing away blithely at mobs is sure suicide since the "rebalancing" even for a tank in PA with dual nanite stacks and medkits.
So using corners and hiding and moving to block shots, in my opinion, is just valid (and smart) tactics.
It should NOT be a mystery here. If you are ever in absolutely no danger, it's an exploit. If you are in danger, it's not.
Forget My Name
20-10-12, 01:37
Hear it all day and night on nc, 'your an exploiter', 'he's and exploiter' bla bla bla.....
Many people on Titan do throw around the term exploiting for almost anything. This is both good and bad for our community, though.
Good, because some of these people want a fresh start - away from the exploit ridden and dupe ruined Terra server.
Bad, because some of these people are either jealous or annoyed that players use legitimate tactics to fight npcs.
So you have to take each instance of accusation differently.
15) You will not exploit any bug in the NEOCRON product or the NEOCRON Service to gain unfair advantage in the game and you will not communicate the existence of any such bug (either directly or through public posting) to any other user of the NEOCRON Service.
Rules and laws are only as strong as the authority willing to justly enforce them, and currently, for whatever reason beyond my understanding, many exploits are allowed and/or are lazily handled.
LE runners in Rhinos can attack and destroy other Rhino users, LE or not, and not face any consequences. This is an obvious and blatant way of "to gain unfair advantage in the game" according to the rules we all agree to play by. Yet all that happens is the defender has one lost Rhino and hours/days of farming gone they would have had, and the offender suffers no punishment, and farms freely, shooting others still.
At the start of Titan, some people got WOC discs be blatant exploiting, and got away with it. So now us honest players have to deal with the fact that cheaters cheated, and all we can do is hate on them.
Using the in game system to report exploiters? You wait 24 hours for an in game email that simply tells you to EMAIL the helpdesk out of the game anyway. So if you find an exploiter on Tuesday, and follow the correct channels, you might get a response Friday.
My advice? Don't bother with the in game ANYTHING. Just find the right email address, and just use that from the start.
http://forum.neocron.com/announcement.php?f=2&a=423
The game was made in a time where there were paid employees that were here to enforce the rules round the clock. Now, we have something different, and just need to be patient, even if the decisions made for us are pretty stupid.
I have recently been accused of exploiting in the doy tunnels by another runner for standing on the ladder out of line of sight from mobs... but this is not always safe here i have died plently of times after a drone is blown up or drop to change a drone.
This is a case of the bad kind of exploiting accusation. You stand on that ladder and drone to your heart's content.
El farid behind the walls?? is this safespotting..
Nope.
People need to be educated on what safespotting really means to the developers.
Safe Spotting is when a player finds out a flaw in the design of the game that the developers did not intend to happen.
When the designers made El Farid, they made the rooms as they are for many reasons. They knew droners existed as a "class" so they needed to make sure the lay out catered to all character class possibilities.
True Safe Spotting is when you find a way to position yourself in the geometry of the game for unintended consequences, like, if a Tank is able to clip inside a wall so he can shoot out, but it is impossible for an NPC to hit back.
Taking cover BEHIND something and clipping INSIDE something are two different things.
Are droners aloud solo level in doy tunnels? like mc5 + ceres was shut down because of easy pickings from droners but why not the tunnels?
Droners aren't exploiters. Exploits can be droners. It irks me every time I see some ego-kiddie in game accuse someone of exploiting because they are a Droner. They are obvious biased in some fashion, and I just ignore them.
If you are able to solo an area, then solo it.
If we are to base what all classes can do on what the one class that can do the least can do, then everyone would be reduced to Melee since Melee can't do shit in this game.
You just keep playing the game as you want. When you come across something that feels fishy to you, feels wrong, you'll know if you are exploiting or not.
dWintermut3
20-10-12, 01:54
I think you said something that needs to be repeated:
Safespotting is when YOU CAN HIT THEM AND THERE IS NOTHING, I REPEAT NOTHING THEY CAN DO TO HIT YOU BACK.
That is the exploit, it takes advantage of level design errors and engine bugs.
If you are exploiting it should be very obvious to you what you are doing.
It is not accidentally possible to clip yourself inside a wall and decide to use that for risk-free combat for an hour, or find the one spot in the room where mobs suddenly stop targeting you and spin in circles. It should be blindingly obvious what you're doing.
Was at MB other day and witnessed a runner using the guards (being anti-cm) to level their con. Using genrep, getting killed and repeating.
yeah why not change it so that you do not gain (con) xp when you are impaired so people can't exploit this anymore
I want to put this out there too because everyone used to do it, but with all the bans and major paranoia around here right now, people seem to think it may be an exploit:
Sitting your drone "safely" behind the wall in the el farid queen room, down low where the only ones that can really hit you are the ones that walk/spawn behind the walls, and shooting at the wall/allong the passage.
Technically you can still get hit/die, but you reduce the damage from insta death to very little.
Forget My Name
20-10-12, 07:58
I want to put this out there too because everyone used to do it, but with all the bans and major paranoia around here right now, people seem to think it may be an exploit:
Sitting your drone "safely" behind the wall in the el farid queen room, down low where the only ones that can really hit you are the ones that walk/spawn behind the walls, and shooting at the wall/allong the passage.
Technically you can still get hit/die, but you reduce the damage from insta death to very little.
Are you suggesting that shooting walls is now an exploit? :confused:
William Antrim
20-10-12, 12:10
If you face the risk of death I would say its legitimate. However seeing some of the German chat it honestly looks like every 3rd word is exploit in game so I would just ignore them.
J@ck on Cr@ck
20-10-12, 12:17
... people seem to think it may be an exploit:
Hes not suggesting it is an exploit rather people might think it is, when in fact its not.
There seems to be a hysteria or "inquisition" going on at the moment.
Ghostface_Speak
20-10-12, 19:33
If you face the risk of death I would say its legitimate. However seeing some of the German chat it honestly looks like every 3rd word is exploit in game so I would just ignore them.
That has to be that certain clan with an L and a G in the tag,anything besides login in and walking around a bit is considered an exploit by them
There seems to be a hysteria or "inquisition" going on at the moment.
This is exactly true.
However seeing some of the German chat it honestly looks like every 3rd word is exploit in game so I would just ignore them.
And this is exactly true, too.
Sadly, very sadly true.......
Due to the uncommon situation, that we have an complete new "beginning" on a virgin server Titan but with 90% total experienced players, we see this special situation. A lot of people start over with levelling and looting and so on. And in this special way of observing and mistrusting every other player an atmosphere of denunciation is born. Especially in the german (my own) community. Sad to have to say that here.
"Every droner is an exploiter." :(
"Every player who has woc level (earlier than me...) is an exploiter." :(
"Every player who sells rare items and trophys is an exploiter." :(
This is encouraged by may be a different reaction of game masters (which i believe that they will do a good job most of the time) and the non-clear definition of the rules (and the prohibition of discussing it here).
NC is a game, which is:
- an older one (not even technically up-to-date)
- has a lot of flaws and weaknesses in game mechanics
- has to much data client-based
I would appreciate if:
- we could stop this histeria and atmopshere of denunciation
- treat the problems wisely and with tolerance
- do not eliminate content or destroy locations or reduce solo-play content
All these things would lead to decreasing players interest and lowering populations, which is exactly the opposite of that what should be the goal.
Reed
I am not aware that our stance on exploit discussion on the forums (or for that matter any public channel) has changed.
Please report any issue to exploits@neocron.info and be assured that fairplay and exploit mitigation is top priority for the team. I cannot expect everyone to agree with how the team handles all issues everytime, but I expect you to stick to the proper channels and stop the rampage. It is simply not helpful, there is absolutely no need for it (we know the issues and we address them appropriatly and best as possible) and thus it is not to be tolerated either. I would hate having to act upon players that are in a way just voicing concerns - but if you want to be helpful, stick to the proper channel for reporting exploits.
-closed
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