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William Antrim
15-10-12, 00:07
Can we please remove the "only gain XP from mission stats" please?

Monks - dex

Spy - Psi

Tanks can gain all of their xp from shooting stuff (admittedly some stats level slower - int)

PE's can gain all of their xp from their weapons (admittedly only con levelling at a decent rate is via hc).

Please can we just have one scheme of xp distribution for everyone? Just vary the speeds of gain based on the end cap of the actual skill or something?

I dont want to do missions forever or repair a vehicle to cap my monk dex.

I dont mind doing it as an experienced player (as I know it is coming when I start a new char and I know how to get around it - res missions etc) but if I am a new player starting my first monk in nc - well its not the best thing in the world to find you have to do 100s of soul destroyingly boring missions all day long.

:D

dWintermut3
15-10-12, 03:45
Much agreed. Especially because some of those stats are utterly vital for those classes. A monk with no agil is at a severe disadvantage and spies NEED PSI to be able to solo.

Ivan Eres
16-10-12, 10:28
Much agreed. Especially because some of those stats are utterly vital for those classes. A monk with no agil is at a severe disadvantage and spies NEED PSI to be able to solo.

One possible solution and suggestion for this could also be to emphasize team play by having the XP for certain stats spread among the group even more.

This means that Monks could level their DEX by leveling together with Spies, and Spies could level their CON by leveling in a group with Tanks, for example.

I know that this already works to some extent in a team nowadays, I have seen the small CON gain for other classes when leveling together with a tank.

This means that these mechanics are already implemented in the game. I would suggest to strengthen this a lot more.

That way we won't need the current workarounds like repairing vehicles for Monks or doing tedious missions all the time (which takes ages anyway).

Regards

CMaster
16-10-12, 10:43
Currently, team XP looks something like this (IE, when a character receives team XP, it will go to these skills):

Tank - Str + Con
Spy - Dex and Int
Monk - Psi and Int
PE - Dex and Psi and Int and Str

How about we change that, so every class is like the PE (perhaps tanks should get Con instead of Psi, after all, it's a slow path to cap there).

Satan2k2
16-10-12, 10:51
Can we please remove the "only gain XP from mission stats" please?

Monks - dex

Spy - Psi

Tanks can gain all of their xp from shooting stuff (admittedly some stats level slower - int)

PE's can gain all of their xp from their weapons (admittedly only con levelling at a decent rate is via hc).

Please can we just have one scheme of xp distribution for everyone? Just vary the speeds of gain based on the end cap of the actual skill or something?

I dont want to do missions forever or repair a vehicle to cap my monk dex.

I dont mind doing it as an experienced player (as I know it is coming when I start a new char and I know how to get around it - res missions etc) but if I am a new player starting my first monk in nc - well its not the best thing in the world to find you have to do 100s of soul destroyingly boring missions all day long.

:D

You're wrong:

PE's don't get all XP while firing his weapons.
Tanks the same.

You get XP on what you use as weapon:
When you use a Rifle/Pistol you get Dex, Int and Str. Dex for using/requirement, Int for aiming, Str for blowback.
When you use a Heavy Weapon you get Str, Dex and Int. Str for requirement/Blowback/Weight, Dex for using, Int for aiming
When you use a Psi Spell you get Psi and Int. Psi for using/requirement, Int for "Psi Use"
When you use a Drone you get Dex and Int. Dex for using/requirement, Int for using/requirement.

A PE don't get CON when using HC, only when get hit.

The only one who can level CON without getting hit is a Tank IN a team.
Same with PE, he's getting Psi in a team.

Team XP:
Monk is getting PSI and INT
Tank is getting STR and CON
Spy is getting DEX and INT
PE is getting Dex, Int, Str, Psi

And when you're a noob and don't know how to level dex as Psi, you can ask in help chat :D

Forget My Name
16-10-12, 12:37
Tanks gain con by using a heavy cannon or a melee weapon. Tank doesn't have to be in a team to gain con without getting hit.

William Antrim
16-10-12, 13:00
We are talking about teams. Not solo levelling so yes you will probably find that I am right. Also we don't want noobs to have to ask in help. This thread is in the brainport so as to improve the game for the future not to get people asking how to get around problems now.

Forget My Name
16-10-12, 13:13
Neocron used to have full team exp gain between players, but for whatever reason KK at the time figured everything and anything was exploitable in game, so every attempt was made to make teaming hard to do.

I agree with going back to how it used to be, and just let team members get exp across the board. A reward for socializing and teaming, as with most modern mmos. Long gone are the days of punishing people to team. Maybe Neocron will get with the current times.

Ivan Eres
16-10-12, 16:39
Neocron used to have full team exp gain between players, but for whatever reason KK at the time figured everything and anything was exploitable in game, so every attempt was made to make teaming hard to do.

I agree with going back to how it used to be, and just let team members get exp across the board. A reward for socializing and teaming, as with most modern mmos. Long gone are the days of punishing people to team. Maybe Neocron will get with the current times.

That's a very good point. You guys rly r0k.

One question about this is how fast every class should be able to cap its secondary stats.

For example the monk with the DEX cap at 35.

How many hours of team play should it take to cap DEX for the monk?

Of course this can never be as fast as repping a Rhino. Which only takes 2-3 hours if I remember correctly from the last time I did it a few years ago.

For example, if one monk is leveling together with one spy. How many hours should it take to cap DEX in that case? 10, 20, 30, 100?

More questions about this cool feature:

1.) If there are more spies in one team, should there be more DEX xp ? Or should the maximum DEX xp gain be capped for the other classes in the team?

2.) Should every class only share its XP for its main stat? Like Spies for DEX, Tanks for CON, Monks for PSI.

3.) Should the Spy also share its INT xp ?

I think that specifying these details is very important for this.

Kame
16-10-12, 18:03
As I recall, PEs only get PSI XP from using PSI, and teaming. Seems even if they don't team with PSI users, they get some PSI xp.

Also I recall weapon req. dictatong the xp received. STR weapons give STR and CON to all classes. DEX weapons give DEX and INT xp.

slith
16-10-12, 22:14
A PE don't get CON when using HC, only when get hit.Simply wrong. Every class gets CON xp by using HC weapons.

Haggis.at
16-10-12, 23:43
Another nice way to level DEX on a Monkey is Recycling... As soon as you can get recycling up to speed and recycle Weaponparts up the chain. I was DEX 10 in no time can make my own PSI Boosters (which I use like Smarties) and some Medipacks.

William Antrim
17-10-12, 13:45
I think each class should give the others 2 stats. The highest two. This way it will encourage variations in teams and encourage more people to socialise. The only problem I see is tanks teaming with monks due to them not having psi but to be honest this is a fairly minor gripe. Perhaps tanks can still get int from monks and so not be totally useless. Maybe pes can also give everyone ALL stats so people can team with them more!

Satan2k2
17-10-12, 14:13
Simply wrong. Every class gets CON xp by using HC weapons.

Cool, It's never too late to learn something new :D

Kame
17-10-12, 14:14
Lol XP sharing in this game is such an obscure knowledge set.

The XP sharing rules are blatantly retarded, all for the sake of preventing power-leveling of low-lv runners by high-lv runners. This has to stop, XP should simply be shared, based on the class you play.

The rules for XP gain regarding one's current weapon XP gain are fine.

CMaster
17-10-12, 14:40
I think each class should give the others 2 stats. The highest two. This way it will encourage variations in teams and encourage more people to socialise. The only problem I see is tanks teaming with monks due to them not having psi but to be honest this is a fairly minor gripe. Perhaps tanks can still get int from monks and so not be totally useless. Maybe pes can also give everyone ALL stats so people can team with them more!

Thats how most people think it works at the moment. They're just wrong.

Anyway, I'm going to go with disagree on that one. Practically it means that most people will want to only level with their own class (as they'll cap minor stats pretty quickly anyway). It especially means that the only character worth teaming with long term for a PPU would be an APU. Not great.

Instead, as said above - all classes gain XP from in all stats, save maybe con. Scale it by the cap levels to keep team XP being useful, rather than shunted off to overcap a substat yet more.

William Antrim
17-10-12, 18:38
Thats how most people think it works at the moment. They're just wrong.

Anyway, I'm going to go with disagree on that one. Practically it means that most people will want to only level with their own class (as they'll cap minor stats pretty quickly anyway). It especially means that the only character worth teaming with long term for a PPU would be an APU. Not great.

Instead, as said above - all classes gain XP from in all stats, save maybe con. Scale it by the cap levels to keep team XP being useful, rather than shunted off to overcap a substat yet more.

Yeah I suggested that in the main thread. What about teaming giving the RECEIVER xp in THEIR main stat then. Is that any easier? to encourage teaming across the board.

Either that or have a rate to gain the xp.

So for example a tank gains xp at 100% of the rate for his strength and con and 75% for his dex and 25% for his int (due to these stats being 100 - 75 and 25 respectively).

I think that that might be fairer. Then adjust the xp rate for damage dealt - so maybe if he does 25% of the damage (HP of the mob) then he gains 25% of the xp available from that mob and this is then split further over the 4 stats he has to level.

I think this would be much fairer. Then if he gets a team to level with he would gain maybe another 10% of the xp each other person in the team earns for themselves (on top of the xp earned by the individual).

This is probably the best solution in my eyes, so as to avoid the problems Cmaster pointed out.

EDIT: these rates are examples here and in no way reflect actual numbers.

EDIT2: Also it would mean the whole AOE issue would need to be looked at so that everyone got the chance to do the AOE levelling and not just have to team with someone doing it.

Torg
17-10-12, 23:50
mhm. tbh i think the current xp system is suitable. all we need are more and more diverse mission/quests. at least imho.

Ivan Eres
18-10-12, 11:22
mhm. tbh i think the current xp system is suitable. all we need are more and more diverse mission/quests. at least imho.

The main problem for me is that ppl have to use things like repairing a rhino to cap DEX on a Monk. I don't think that this is right.

There should be a natural way to cap DEX on a monk.

That's why a spy should only share DEX to a monk maybe.

Tanks could share CON for everybody.

Monks could share PSI for everybody.

Someone said that a PPU would then only level with an APU. This is already the case now. However, this could be cut down to the XP share that monks get anyway with other classes too for their PSI.

I do also agree that the rule set for the XP share is very complex atm.

Izeo
17-11-12, 21:41
Can we please remove the "only gain XP from mission stats" please?

Please can we just have one scheme of xp distribution for everyone? Just vary the speeds of gain based on the end cap of the actual skill or something?

Agree. This makes the most sense to me.

-

I also want to add this, since other people are talking about current rules regarding sharing XP in teams. As far as I know, the current system is - when you receive "team XP" it automatically goes into your 2 main skills. So, even if there is 1 monk in a team with 20 Tanks, that monk will only get INT and PSI team XP.

I'd prefer: when you receive team XP, you receive 50% of that XP of your 2 main skills, and you receive 50% of that XP of the sender's 2 main skills.

-

So, a monk and a tank are teamed together. Tank shoots some stuff and sends 100 xp to the "team XP to be sent out". Monk gains 50 of that xp in his INT and PSI, and 50 of that xp in his STR and CON. Simple??!

William Antrim
17-11-12, 22:51
I'd rather the xp was scaled according to the players max level by %.

So for example a tank strength caps at 100 out if 300 so he should get 33% of his xp going to that stat perhaps? I am not sure if this way would benefit pes mire though or the other classes. It seems fairest across the board tho perhaps. It just an idea I thought of while reading your post however. Perhaps it needs some more thought.

Jodo
18-11-12, 07:59
I enjoy having to take missions and I believe the tertiary stats should require extra effort to cap. I do think that you should have the ability to take multiple missions or perhaps "Larger" missions. By this I would like to see different missions for increasing number of mobs required to kill.
Kill 5 aggies
Kill 10 aggies
Kill 15 aggies etc
with the xp and cash reward increasing each time. In this case the time allowed to complete the mission would come in to play a lot more. Noobs wouldn't be able to kill 15 aggies in the short time allowed (due to their low end weapons and low stats) but a higher level player would have a greater chance and benefit from staying in the field for longer. I greatly appreciate the GoGu and Citycom in the entrance to MB but most players still stay in the field until their pockets are full of Tronik parts before heading back in.

Changing the xp gain the way the OP suggests would hit the Resser economy a great deal also. People pay a good chunk of cash for stacks of tl 150 cubes to high end Ressers.

William Antrim
18-11-12, 12:32
I think that the effect would just make researchers lower their prices tbh. That is an industry born out of having a lack of any other real time efficient way of doing things. I would like to see alternatives.

Jodo
18-11-12, 13:52
What would be the point in them lowering their prices? Nobody would need to buy them anymore. The tl 150 missions are only so popular because of the xp they give. Runners are willing to pay such a price because they're only after the xp, not the cash reward.

Doc Holliday
18-11-12, 18:38
mhm. tbh i think the current xp system is suitable. all we need are more and more diverse mission/quests. at least imho.

It IS broken though. Teams vs solo. It needs to be fixed. Monk intel. Monk Dex. Spy Psi etc. all these issues need to be addressed.

Missions is one thing for pve content etc but truthfully good old fashioned grinding is what people are used to and requires a LOT less effort on the content design team than coming up with npcs with yellow exclamation marks.

the spell checks alone would break you :) (this is a dig at the many comical spelling errors in the game)

Roc-a-fella
19-11-12, 09:41
double xp weekends plz

Jodo
19-11-12, 13:15
I much prefer playing with my LE but I'd be quite happy if non LE'd runners got a significant xp advantage like they used too. This should be quite do-able.

Doc Holliday
19-11-12, 13:26
I much prefer playing with my LE but I'd be quite happy if non LE'd runners got a significant xp advantage like they used too. This should be quite do-able.


ooooohhhhh! Now thats a thought. Just wrote somethin similar in the revive tech haven thread. I like the idea.

Risk/Reward is a great way to sell it. Simply a higher levelling rate for people who choose to take out the le. Better than the minus on stats/money of the old days.

People who are intent on pvp will take the LE out anyway. People who are intent on pvp will also want to level to cap fast enough to actually do some worthwhile pvp so it benefits them both ways. People who do not wish to pvp and retain the LE in are not excluded or punished. I like it.

PS. i still have an LE char as well as non le clanned runners. I like the best of both worlds before anyone says i sit in one camp or the other.

Torg
19-11-12, 13:43
i oppose the idea of a free lunch for especially impatient people.

Doc Holliday
19-11-12, 14:18
i oppose the idea of a free lunch for especially impatient people.


Hows it a free lunch? explain that comment please?

Do you play the game for pvp or not? personally i mean. the whole idea of risk/reward is to eliminate this idea of getting a free lunch. you can and will get pvp action in this way. If you die you lose stuff. thats the risk. you also lose money albeit not very much.

explain your thoughts a little more rather than smacking down an idea for the sake of it.

Jodo
19-11-12, 17:57
Back in NC 1, all but one of my runners were in clans and I took the LE out as soon as I spawned. There was a lot of ganking but the server population meant your number didn't come up too much. I find it less fun these days, your number comes up a lot more due to the lower pop so yes, there is a notable risk/reward. That's just my take on it though.

Torg
19-11-12, 18:29
Hows it a free lunch? explain that comment please?

Do you play the game for pvp or not? personally i mean.afaik the topic of ths thread is "xp gain acceleration", or, in other words "i want to pvp as soon as i can, please let me skip pve cause its boring". getting "free" xp because of impatience and lack of creativity while playing sounds like a "free lunch" to me.

so let me suggest skipping the aggressor-bunker-el-farid-crp-regants road to boredom and having fun instead. i just guess i will pvp, too, some time in the future. but this won't happen in 2012 for sure. in the meantime i'll enjoy all the different aspects of the game, travel to the far and secret places, gather resources, kill monsters, build stuff, talk to ppl. yes, atm i nurture 4 different chars in parallel. what does that mean for you, holli? you won't read "you have been killed by Torg" until a few months in the future.

Izeo
19-11-12, 18:53
I gotta say I DO sympathize with the argument of "I've already done all that and explored everything so many times, so I just want to level fast". That argument doesn't describe how I play, and like you, Torg, I will probably never cap and get MC5 chips and WOC and PVP. But I still sympathize with that argument, because it makes sense.

William's initial suggestion (correct me if I'm wrong), is to improve XP gain on the "problematic" skills by using a more universal XP gain system. I.E. missions aside, it's unfair to monks that their DEX bar doesn't move no matter what they do, and it's unfair to spies that their PSI bar doesn't move no matter what they do. Getting a spy to max DEX and a tank to max STR, and so on, should still take the same amount of time (again, correct me if I'm wrong Will).

William Antrim
19-11-12, 20:01
Izeo you nailed it.



Torg you just need to learn to read better. You changed one word in the thread title and blew the entire thing right out of context with another blatant supposition if what I was getting at. Your negativity is starting to get annoying and it is beginning to look like veiled flames and covert stabs at the poster. You clearly didn't read the original post and have once again taken things way oft what the op - me - intended. I'm getting bored of it now. We know your views on easy levelling etc. This is not about that it is about getting an xp delivery system for you and me and everyone else in this game.

If forum trolling is all you are going to do I will have no choice but to ignore you in future. You're ruining a perfectly civil discussion with this holier than thou attitude and I implore you to please just read and think before you post.

Forget My Name
19-11-12, 20:04
/sarcasm

I don't know what you kids are on about.... I enjoy capping my Droner with 99 int 96 dex (after lomming into Construction and Repair) and having 2 strength, 2 constitution and 1 psi!

Makes sense!!!

/sarcasm

Torg
19-11-12, 21:49
Torg you just need to learn to read better.
even in threads you started i'm not always talking to you alone, but to other ppl as well.

If forum trolling is all you are going to do I will have no choice but to ignore you in future.
if you find it unbearable to read my opinions, differing from yours, go on, stop reading my posts.

back to OT: i'd be fine with boosting xp gain in weaker main skills (ie dex, str, con for monks) in general (but by far not to a degree near main skills), while tuning down xp gain for problematic activities like repping rhinoes etc.

William Antrim
19-11-12, 22:43
In this particular case you quoted my thread and got the title wrong and then went off on a rant about it. I am not referring to any other posts but this one. Thank you for a piece that is finally ON topic and an opinion that has merit and weight with reference to the original suggestion. That is all I asked for. Not the veiled stabs of the previous one.

hazzard
17-10-13, 20:50
Neocron used to have full team exp gain between players, but for whatever reason KK at the time figured everything and anything was exploitable in game, so every attempt was made to make teaming hard to do.

I agree with going back to how it used to be, and just let team members get exp across the board. A reward for socializing and teaming, as with most modern mmos. Long gone are the days of punishing people to team. Maybe Neocron will get with the current times.
So this is what was wrong with my memory.


I agree with going back to how it used to be, and just let team members get exp across the board. A reward for socializing and teaming, as with most modern mmos. Long gone are the days of punishing people to team. Maybe Neocron will get with the current times.
This. Pretty please.
It's very frustrating to repeat 2524 times the same missions just to get my STR up. I couldn't afford to buy nanites and a vehicle to raise STR and DEX.
If you are new to nc, this is very wtf?!