View Full Version : Lack of levelling areas
Unrestrained
10-10-12, 20:23
Getting rather tired of logging on to find that there are 14 drones in elfarid or 30 tanks in crp
Ok fair enough thats over the top but there are what 3 main levelling areas for higher end? Elfarid, crp and regents all of which are genrally overpopulated to such an extent to make levelling annoying/slow.
My 2 main points would be are there any plans to create duplicates of the existing zones? or to add in other places which are viable to level.
Before I start getting slated by people saying go somwhere else, I am talking about viable level spots that dont contain mobs which hit for insane damage or are miles from anywhere.
Dribble Joy
10-10-12, 20:26
You don't have to cave to level. Warbots, firemobs, DoY bots, there's lots in the wastes. The xp might not be as good (if you're used to AoE), but the loot is generally better.
Been doing El Farid for the last 4 days. It's usually somewhat populated during the day, but it's still a great leveling area.
Catlock Chaos Cave isnt really all too populated at times
There's a TG chaos cave
Swamp Caves
There are 3 chaos caves for a start, there's no need to obsess about CRP.
There are also loads of other high-end caves and locations.
Basically, what you want already exists, you just don't know about it.
Dribble Joy
10-10-12, 21:19
Check this (http://www.techhaven.org/index2.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_view&gid=134&Itemid=133) out. Caves are marked by red dots.
Check this (http://www.techhaven.org/index2.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_view&gid=134&Itemid=133) out. Caves are marked by red dots.
Heh, and that's not even complete.
Chuck Norris
10-10-12, 22:02
I hear secret Hqs are great leveling spots not much in the way of money I hear though
I was able to get a couple of nice runs in at the canyon caves last night, but that was after numerous attempts at all 3 chaos caves where droners kept running in front of my rockets to try to kill me because they don't want to have to move when the LT dies. Also, the rhinos at grant and cycrow are really obnoxious.
dWintermut3
10-10-12, 22:33
There are plenty of leveling areas of all ranges.
just because CRP is the easiest chaos cave to get to doesn't mean it's the only one. There's like four or five more.
They don't need to add more places to level, when plenty already exist. When El Farid is full I have a backup spot that I've actually come to prefer.
At the low level when the aggie cellars (of which there are more than one by the way, P2 isn't the ONLY one) there's the mutant trap, outzone and Indy A.
Around El Farid's level we have plenty of static launcher cyclops spawns, ranging over at least 4-5 different zones, not to mention Indy A (hurler bridge, etc). and don't forget the graves.
Then at the upper end we have Regents' Legacy, Point Red, Gaia Mine, juggernaut facility worm caves, swamp caves (which suck for droners because of all the water...), DoY tunnels (if you have a team) DoY tunnel entrances with 60/60 cyborgs on the surface.
There are warbots, fire mobs, launcher spawns, sandworms and for the near-capped there are the DoY bots way up north.
If you can't find something to fight in an entire world that's out to kill you, you're being too picky.
I've done most of my levelling on firemobs, and got about 100+ tech parts out of it.
Somewhere around 2006 AOE and droning became the norm. You'll probably have more fun with it if you get out of that mindset.
Unrestrained
10-10-12, 23:23
Well this is what I thought was going to happen, most of you completly missed what I said. You try and solo CRP or any of the other chaos caves and see what happens. They are either empty or a gang bang, not much inbetween.
My vote is to reduce mob damage and allow soloing to be easier for the times when the caves are too full and an empty one is too hard.
As for firemobbing this can only be done by basically exploting mob range, so its for rifle/hc. apu/pistol/anything else can not do this.
just because CRP is the easiest chaos cave to get to doesn't mean it's the only one. There's like four or five more.
Two.
They don't need to add more places to level, when plenty already exist. When El Farid is full I have a backup spot that I've actually come to prefer.
Let me guess, elfarid level 1?
At the low level when the aggie cellars (of which there are more than one by the way, P2 isn't the ONLY one) there's the mutant trap, outzone and Indy A.
Viarosso gets often overlooked because its all 'clean' and stuff... and people forget about the amount of sewers in pepper park too.
Around El Farid's level we have plenty of static launcher cyclops spawns, ranging over at least 4-5 different zones, not to mention Indy A (hurler bridge, etc). and don't forget the graves.
Graves... when was the last time you, or infact anyone did the graves... legitimately ?
Then at the upper end we have Regents' Legacy, Point Red, Gaia Mine, juggernaut facility worm caves, swamp caves (which suck for droners because of all the water...), DoY tunnels (if you have a team) DoY tunnel entrances with 60/60 cyborgs on the surface.
Regents Legacy, intended to be there for WOC levelling characters, populated by /30's, says it all in my opinion of how much of a fuck up that place is.
Point red, not much of a levelling place, more there as part of the story, a bit of variety and somewhere for a unique boss drop to be.
Gaia mine, youre better off staying outside if you want to level, shoot firemobs instead, theres more around and the loots better. Again, just somewhere to have an end boss that drops a unique item to that area.
Juggernaut Facility, there for a mission, not much of a levelling area, and id imagine hardly possible to do legitimately too as things stand, its too easy and far too commonly accepted to just accept that people take the piss now and exploit with total disregard for the rest of the community.
Worm Caves/Swamp caves, horrible zones, hate how their designed, the mobs hit like absolute bastards and again hardly worth the effort put in for the meagre xp you get back, another place added for a unique boss drop
DoY tunnels... there again for a full team, i did kinda like this place when they first came in, there was a challenge then in learning new mobs, but the mapping, personally i cant stand it, its all far too square for it to feel like an excavated mine... The problem here is that again, people just accept the fact that you could either go there on a prepared team, put the effort into doing it, or just spend a couple of days with a droner and a dual logged alt, not lose a drone and gather all the loot.
There are warbots, fire mobs, launcher spawns, sandworms and for the near-capped there are the DoY bots way up north.
Ive levelled my rifle spy up the normal way, mostly Warbot titans, some firemobs, and gave brutes and sandworms a few goes too, and granted i may not be 100% capped, but I've made probably as much cash etc with the one character barring drone farmers, and gathered a lot of techs along the way.
Sorry if i sound pessimistic, ive just had enough of seeing so many people just accept that things are the way they are. Theres areas of the game and community acceptance that need desperately cleaning up and for certain things to not be 'the norm' anymore. I guess im gonna start calling it free game/free account syndrome, some people just dont seem to give a shit about losing their accounts to bans, they just make another and do the same thing over again like its funny.
Every place I went today there were multiple droners, I only saw one that was doing things the right way... and he bitched in local too which made me laugh, then just dissapeared, logged off, it was sad to see to be honest, i also did the same out of omst likely frustration...
It's this apparent acceptance that "oh, leave them too it, all droners do that" that's somehow crept in to neocron in the last 5 years that has made it almost acceptable to not even bother standing up against them. complete apathy.
/rant
I understand that there _are_ plans for some current areas to be turned into levelling areas, DOY for example would make in my opinion an awesome multi tiered dungeon, but only if its planned right and handled in the correct way. I like this idea of the wasteland labs, but again, the implementation in E_05 wasn't exactly great
Main sewers, another area that could be utilized, and in the same essence the level 2 of the sewers in the city could have their mob level's upped a bit to create a different area for the mid levels to go to.
There is nothing wrong with variety, the problem is with the implementation, when there is one area that totally outweighs all others in its advantages, then everyone is going to go there.
anyway, im rambling... a free powerbooze to anyone that read through that...
As for firemobbing this can only be done by basically exploting mob range, so its for rifle/hc. apu/pistol/anything else can not do this.
Someone is going to have to hold me back here...
"Exploiting" damn the use of this word is just beyond control now
A rifle's advantage is its range, Just because a mob cant spit fire at you 200 meters away does not mean its an exploit, the mob walks towards you, and you back away from it to keep to your weapons advantage, there is believe it or not, a difference between common sense and exploiting, its just unfortunate that most people lack the common sense required to differentiate the two. If I take the same logic you have used to come to the conclusion that simply out ranging a mob is an exploit, then lets start a petition to have all guns removed and turn neocron into a swashbuclking melee fantasy fuckabout, with powersuits...
Forget My Name
10-10-12, 23:36
Whoever designed the progression of the mobs in the game honestly had no clue what they were doing.
100 sewer entrances in Neocron, only two or three have mobs 24/24 or above.
Industrial got spiders. When you can AOE, the million 5/5 mobs are worthless. SO what is the point? What 5/3 runner is going ot fight 500 5/5 spiders backed up by 34/34 whatever spiders?
Outzones.... What a joke. I think it is outzone 4 or 6 that has a ton of mutants to hunt, and that is about it.
BAM!!!! Black Dragon Elite mobs that never de spawn. Right in your face.
Main Sewers... joke. Tons of rats. Who cares. No one goes there as a 0/2 to hunt 4/4/ rats.
Oh boy.... Wastelands....
Wasteland progression makes Neocron's look like a perfectly planned out dream.
Everywhere you go, you run into 10/10 mobs, or 100/100 mobs. Terrible. Every. SINGLE. FUCKING. SECTOR with Hoverbombers is WORTHLESS. They hug the zone lines, and there is no reason EVER to fight them. You die.
Then more rats, lizards, more 4/4 mobs... Go east Replicants rape you. Just everywhere. NO rhyme or reason to how they are spread out.
Anarchy Breeds are too far from Neocron to matter. How about put them in Outzones?
Every player - MC5 > Mutant Sewers or/and Aggie Sewers > MB or surrounding areas with mass Launcher Spawns > End game Dungeons. 99% of the game, 99% of the world the mappers and designers spent years making are visited ONCE, and ignored due to being empty and worthless.
Mutant Sewers... MB... Crp/Regant/El Farid Dungeons.... awesome....
Unrestrained
10-10-12, 23:55
Sorry but I dont believe that I used the work exploiting incorrectly. You are exploiting a weakness in the game, in this case it would be the fact that if you stand so you cant even see the mob and shoot into the fog you get easy loot and exp. Which you can call a tactic, but what if I dont want to be hc/rc? Then a balance issue comes in because I cant kill the same effective level mobs. Im just fed up of peoples argument being well use hc, or use drones. Sort the insane mob damage out and bring back real leveling.
The spider cellars are in fact awesome levelling for a small team featuring tanks with the noob GL. Mega XP that way.
I can show you plenty of places in NC with higher mobs than 24/24 (although a lot of them are the old DoY levelling areas). Also, the Dragon's Wrath (dumb as they are) are only in OZ1, so fairly easy to get to OZ without that (and yeah, Ind A 1, but in spots which you don't have to go through).
I do genuinely think a lot more could be made of the zones, but at the same time the player base bring it upon themselves - I'm deliberately avoid Aggies and Bunker this time around, and not suffering for it. They're not the only good options, just the best known, most obvious ones.
Sandworm caves are fine too, especially that one, with soulblades.
Sorry but I dont believe that I used the work exploiting incorrectly. You are exploiting a weakness in the game, in this case it would be the fact that if you stand so you cant even see the mob and shoot into the fog you get easy loot and exp. Which you can call a tactic, but what if I dont want to be hc/rc? Then a balance issue comes in because I cant kill the same effective level mobs. Im just fed up of peoples argument being well use hc, or use drones. Sort the insane mob damage out and bring back real leveling.
its a fuckin' sniper rifle, its intended to be used at range. Want to stand toe to toe, get a pistol... The mobs move closer to you, to get within their range, its kinda understandable that some firemobs cant shit flaming meteors of death 200 meters, but let them get within range and youre toast. That, like you say, is called a tactic, and fuck it up and back into something, you're also toast.
That is a tactic, Try fitting a scope, you will see the mob then, its a bit like crying in pvp that mr spy with his disruptor or silent hunter got you down at range, and will hit you, even when they are out of your rang because you couldnt shoot back with your slasher or some other pistol.. There are mobs out there that do have range, and will hit you, even when they are out of your range. moving your drone into a ceiling cavity is not a tactic. shooting an indestructible wall with mobs trapped behind it with a big rocket launcher is not a tactic.
I want to play a melee character, my main for 5 years was a melee tank, it hurts seeing how unviable they are now, although i still intend to play a melee tank once im capped, just for shits n giggles in the name of nostalgia.
Sort the insane mob damage out and bring back real leveling.
That is I believe part of the problem now, so many mobs dont just do a 'bit more' damage then they used to, it seems all mob damage has been hit with a multiplier, and at the same time, everyones defences have been lowered, resulting in an almighty fuckup when it comes to balancing. This made people look for other ways to do things solo instead of bothering to team up, which is why some things have become so widespread
dWintermut3
11-10-12, 00:16
Let me guess, elfarid level 1?
Actually no, it's a cyclops spawn, roughly similar mob level.
Graves... when was the last time you, or infact anyone did the graves... legitimately ?
last night when El Farid was full, I was a bit too low-level though.
Regents Legacy, intended to be there for WOC levelling characters, populated by /30's, says it all in my opinion of how much of a fuck up that place is.
Can't really disagree with that one
Point red, not much of a levelling place, more there as part of the story, a bit of variety and somewhere for a unique boss drop to be.
It's not terrible, especially if you're not a class that relies on AoE for levelling, like my rifle spy.
Worm Caves/Swamp caves, horrible zones, hate how their designed, the mobs hit like absolute bastards and again hardly worth the effort put in for the meagre xp you get back, another place added for a unique boss drop
In NC1 swamp caves were our goto when CRP was full, I never really did worm caves but some of my clan-mates did. I can't speak for how they are these days.
There is nothing wrong with variety, the problem is with the implementation, when there is one area that totally outweighs all others in its advantages, then everyone is going to go there.
Quoted for truth.
My point is that people should be willing to accept something less than optimal. You have a choice: either deal with people swarming all over the numerically-superior leveling location, or you can accept slightly less XP/hour and NC/hour and perhaps a tougher time if you want the place all to yourself.
Unrestrained
11-10-12, 00:42
I think what needs to be redone is a full cave overhaul and put in new leveling areas from 0/2 all the way to cap. Around /30 especially because short of knowing where to go/getting lucky your stuck at the mb gang bang. I have also found that this new server, which I think was the right move for NC, has become full of unhelpful/selfish players who do anything and everything to maximize their own loot/exp while quite often screwing other people over. This is not what mmorpgs are about.
I was just thinking we need to break up the lvlling chain. Although to be honest we bring it on ourselves, people ask in Help where is a good place to level for an X rank and we tell them the usual places.
Because AoE has become a means to quick levelling these issues with dungeons will continue.
The Sewer in PP1 Next to Neofrag behind the pillar if you go down to 3rd level its an exceptional way to level for a Grenade Launcher Newbie tank. You have the Big Poisonous Spiders which spawn the little ones, really easy to get 3 of big ones together then you're laughing floor gets covered in little spider corpses & your exp shoots up.
I've done most of my levelling on firemobs, and got about 100+ tech parts out of it.
Somewhere around 2006 AOE and droning became the norm. You'll probably have more fun with it if you get out of that mindset.
haha we cant all afford rhinos!
Doc Holliday
11-10-12, 06:03
272k without barter plus 75 creds for the license plus 2500 cr for the bp. :)
Using range against fire mobs is an exploit? LOL! even the mods said it was a legit and valid tactic so that solves that issue.
I agree up to a point that some of the mobs in this game are broken in pve. The raptors and terrorleapers are ridiculous at times. grims are plain evil (this is a good thing) but some things do need to be tweaked.
I hope one day for the poison caves/graves to be reworked. I would also love to see the main sewer (reading jameson clarkes thread and getting influence) get reopened and used for something (im thinking higher end here so it doesnt get levelled past and forgotten) and even Doy at the top end (both level and top end of the map) would be a great spot to do a shit load with.
I know, before anyone says, the ak/swat/backup gun run is there but add some ranges of mobs up there for teams etc or even solo rooms would be cool. spread people out. send them off doing interesting things.
yes agreed with everything you wrote Fenix. nothing more to add on that. you covered it very well. ps if you want any melee rares we have all kinds for trades :)
I think what needs to be redone is a full cave overhaul and put in new leveling areas from 0/2 all the way to cap.
no, fellow runner. its all there. ask around and explore. you know, i levelled dozens of chars in the past ten glorious years of neocron, and i rarely used a cave. just because i hate grinding exp and dying from boredom and repetition. so i'd rather went from pepper park sewers to mainsewer and outzone (and outzone storages) to horrors and brutes and warbots and hoverbots. the latter are tremendously lots of exp, and fun, as long as you have shelter nearby and know how to move. btw: mmorpgs are not about being one happy familiy, but about competition. you don't like competition? so stay on your own, nurture all 4 slots on this server to a full-scale industry and play along happily on your own. have fun.
dWintermut3
11-10-12, 21:36
Reworking main sewer to have 60/60 mobs or so would be amazing, but I worry that if you could level to cap without ever leaving Neocron City it would lead to an even more desolate wasteland: you'd just cap out or get close inside neocron then the only other place you'd see people is cycrow, regents and the ceres spawnpoints.
272k without barter plus 75 creds for the license plus 2500 cr for the bp. :)
So were you volunteering to organise one for me? :P
The spider cellars are in fact awesome levelling for a small team featuring tanks with the noob GL. Mega XP that way.
I can show you plenty of places in NC with higher mobs than 24/24 (although a lot of them are the old DoY levelling areas). Also, the Dragon's Wrath (dumb as they are) are only in OZ1, so fairly easy to get to OZ without that (and yeah, Ind A 1, but in spots which you don't have to go through).
I do genuinely think a lot more could be made of the zones, but at the same time the player base bring it upon themselves - I'm deliberately avoid Aggies and Bunker this time around, and not suffering for it. They're not the only good options, just the best known, most obvious ones.
Awesome's a bit much, we out-levelled it in 10 levels or so. Admittedly, it did only take us an hour.
Doc Holliday
13-10-12, 06:37
So were you volunteering to organise one for me? :P
yeah when i can sure. probably do another db run some time soon and get more bps so i can set u one onside and we have the licenses. you only need 10 mnpu-x parts to make it.
yeah when i can sure. probably do another db run some time soon and get more bps so i can set u one onside and we have the licenses. you only need 10 mnpu-x parts to make it.
That'd be awesome if you could sort me out with some BP's and licenses!
Also these people who dont hunt in aggies/ MB/ El Farid / Regents and have decent levels, please chare your great leveling spots, i know it is annoying when others intrude on your little spot, but this thread is about leveling areas, please dont just say there are other great spots and leave us hanging.
Forget My Name
13-10-12, 10:24
Wow.... Outzone 4 Mutant Town.... I am loving this place as melee.... Seriously, it is so much fun!
explore the outzone and all of its cellars and storages, you'll find mutants, aggressors, spiders, cyclops. the mainsewer is divided into several zones, mostly mutants, aggressors, giant rats (lowbies may loot a rat trophy!). its accessible from PP3, IND A 2, OZ 6, and theres a one-way exit to OZ 2. it has several locked doors, so you want to take a hacktool with you. and/or do a lot of swimming.
I haven't done this in numerous years, but the level 3 sewer in PP1 is a nice source of XP. If you can AoE and can keep yourself alive, just go to the sewer (opposite the exit from the Subway), go down to the bottom level and run right to the end of the dungeon where the Queen spider is. Great XP!
William Antrim
13-10-12, 17:09
Left side of Neofrag 2 (hidden behind a pillar) is another sewer entrance that has basically the same zone. I used to start in there all the time. good stuff.
William Antrim
13-10-12, 17:14
P.s There are an assload of places up near Doy that are good for levelling off firemobs. Its just that the first time you walk there its a bit of a long hazardous journey.
dWintermut3
14-10-12, 20:57
P.s There are an assload of places up near Doy that are good for levelling off firemobs. Its just that the first time you walk there its a bit of a long hazardous journey.
Not to mention the DoY mobs, they can be decent XP for a high-level looking to finish capping out.
Sure it's not the XP bonanza it was when they were blanketed in Johnny-5s at the end of NC1, but it's a nice change of pace.
Chuck Norris
14-10-12, 21:15
Not to mention the DoY mobs, they can be decent XP for a high-level looking to finish capping out.
Sure it's not the XP bonanza it was when they were blanketed in Johnny-5s at the end of NC1, but it's a nice change of pace.
watch out there are still blankets of johnny 5's unfortunately I found out via venture warp on my noob!
dWintermut3
14-10-12, 21:16
Where? let me at 'em. That's how I capped my NC1 spy AND tank
William Antrim
14-10-12, 23:52
Been farming Judgement Day Launchers tonight. Awesome fun.
Just so you know there are other places besides Regants and Rhinoing.
Just so you know there are other places besides Regants and Rhinoing.
So prove it by telling us where.
Doc Holliday
15-10-12, 05:38
JD launchers. The ceres infantry bloke. Mutant with a rocket launcher. Proper Boss.
Hes inside crest uplink. In the buildings to the south of the op theres a hatch in the floor to an underground storage. Its identical to point red. Doom Harbinger i think is his name the boss. Good times. :)
Gonna have to check it out, thanks.
There's another one of the same at Sherman Bay. Forget if it has the Harby or not mind.
Honestly, mobs like that need to give better XP to make up for the lack of possibility to AoE or outrange them.
I wrote a bunch of cave guides ages ago - they're now deprecated as they refer to 2.1 stats and tactics, but it perhaps gives some indication - and I think I covered all the "native" caves, as well as a couple of the one offs. If somebody wants to use damage logs to collect good 2.2 data and wikify them, that would be great:
http://www.techhaven.org/resources/cave-guides/worm-tunnels.html
http://www.techhaven.org/resources/cave-guides/swamp-caves.html
http://www.techhaven.org/resources/cave-guides/graves.html
http://www.techhaven.org/resources/cave-guides/village-storages.html
http://www.techhaven.org/resources/cave-guides/crystal-caves.html
Hmm, seems I never got the chaos caves (canyons native) covered.
William Antrim
15-10-12, 13:45
There is a doom harbinger in point red. I won't tell you where so you can explore for yourself but he is in there. There is a gogu and a gr upstairs also and several other nippy little blokes in there with him. Good luck. P.s the zones outside doy city are great for firemobbing yavi.
:)
Sorry but I dont believe that I used the work exploiting incorrectly. You are exploiting a weakness in the game, in this case it would be the fact that if you stand so you cant even see the mob and shoot into the fog you get easy loot and exp. Which you can call a tactic, but what if I dont want to be hc/rc? Then a balance issue comes in because I cant kill the same effective level mobs. Im just fed up of peoples argument being well use hc, or use drones. Sort the insane mob damage out and bring back real leveling.
I remember my first char being a MC tank in 2004. It was very hard back then to kill brutes and warbots as a MC tank but it was a great challenge and a lot of fun.
Today it's not possible anymore at all.
So yes, while I think that rifles and hc beam cannons have their use, there should also be a fair chance for the close combat people again, like pistols and MC.
I think it is again something that we all have grown used to and we have accepted to use rifles and HC cannons for hunting because of the advantage of range.
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