View Full Version : AoE Rifle for patch 175?
lol RK1000 Rifle and his rare Weapon name -> Exploiter TL115
Would be nice if rifle users also had AoE, yeah..
@ Zuul: Theres already AoE pistols, so I dont see why there isnt a rifle variant of that.
Would be nice if rifle users also had AoE, yeah..
@ Zuul: Theres already AoE pistols, so I dont see why there isnt a rifle variant of that.
Really the Grenade launcher acts more like a rifle in a lot of ways, that'd make more sense to me. Tanks would then still have their big bunch of AoE, but not that much at low level I suppose.
Doc Holliday
29-09-12, 13:49
Winding arguement is a rare grenade launcher, lot of fun too. :)
Really the Grenade launcher acts more like a rifle in a lot of ways, that'd make more sense to me. Tanks would then still have their big bunch of AoE, but not that much at low level I suppose.
True, and the size of it is even more rifle-like than Heavy-like :p
William Antrim
29-09-12, 14:02
Underslung grenade launcher. 40mm takes up a slot on your weapon.
Problem solved.
KTHXBAI.
Underslung grenade launcher. 40mm takes up a slot on your weapon.
Problem solved.
KTHXBAI.
That would be SO badass! Although it would probably take too much Work to implement :(
Yeah, I was going to suggest that too but it would be a lot of playing around.
It could be argued what Rifles lack in AoE they make up for in range, but then again the tank has both range and AoE - but they are supposed to be the soldiers of NC..
William Antrim
29-09-12, 14:27
Could it just be added as a new weapon then like the nade launcher but with a rifle REQ?
an AoE-rifle would be awesome. but, folks, rifles as a weapon class are strong enough already. lets leave it this way. no rifle-grenades or -rockets please.
Kane Gregory
29-09-12, 16:26
No... and additional please remove the rocket pistol.
Sorry but AoE Rifle and Pistol makes no sense for me.
Yeah, it does seem ok without AoE, just a bit more of a grind :)
I dunno about removing rocket pistol, they're not that amazing damage wise and there isn't a rare one, so I'd just leave it.
William Antrim
29-09-12, 16:43
To anyone saying no aoe, seriously.... Have a think about this. Apu, tank and droner spy all have aoe. The rest should have it too. It's the 26th century! We should get aoe on the redeemer and executioner at least same as the malediction.
In terms of balance only it is needed.
Forget My Name
29-09-12, 16:44
Leave rocket pistols alone. Stop trying to punish players having fun using them. Don't remove content. I am sure the Devs already know the dangers of taking away toys from the boys...
Add an AOE rifle. Every weapon class has AOE, why not rifles?
theres grenades...
*hides*
Yeah, maybe making something like the GL a rifle wouldn't be so bad. It's already animated more like a rifle than a cannon. Maybe introduce a lower TL t-c AoE for tanks to replace it, or a lower tl Rocket launcher.
Not sure about Fusion rifles as the distance bonus + aoe would make them really powerful, but there must be some pheasble idea. Don't get rid of rocket pistols, its the 1 AoE PC have, so I suppose it would be ok to have 1 AoE weapon for Rifle.
Just make fusion, ray, rocket AOE rifle variants...
But rifles are not meant to be an AOE weapon, they are rifles meant for accurate shots at a distance.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1f/M-32_Grenade_Launcher.jpg/300px-M-32_Grenade_Launcher.jpg
This looks like a rifle to me :)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1f/M-32_Grenade_Launcher.jpg/300px-M-32_Grenade_Launcher.jpg
This looks like a rifle to me :)
its not a rifle...
Even if we had laser rifles, they would not be considered rifles either, they would be considered laser guns because they would have no rifling :)
Well if we put it in NC context, it's not a pistol or a cannon :P
A grenade launcher or grenade discharger is a weapon that launches a grenade with more accuracy, higher velocity, and to greater distances than a soldier could throw it by hand.
Grenade launchers can either come in the form of standalone weapons (either single-shot or repeating) or attachments mounted under the barrel of a rifle. Some rifles have been designed to fire rifle grenades, either from their muzzle or from a detachable muzzle-mounted launcher
Rifle grenades, humm, yeah that could work for a good reason to give rifle users AOE :D
Forget My Name
29-09-12, 17:48
I feel you gents are stuck in the modern mindset of what an area attack is. Grenades are fine for AOE, and I agree with having them be an AOE type attack for rifles, but Neocron is set in the future with high sci fi toys.
Making a fusion Rifle would be nice. An energy based AOE rifle fits just fine in the lore of the Neocron setting.
Low tech AOE rifles would use Grenades, and High tech AOE Rifles would use Energy based attacks.
If you gents are worried about the Rifle's awesome range + AOE fire power, why not limit rifles with AOEs to short ranged attacks?
Let Energy based rifles just be Shotguns? Or how about jsut have Shotguns do AOE damage for Low tech?
Low Tech AOE Rifles
Grenade Launchers
Slug Based Shotguns
High Tech AOE Rifles
Energy based Shotguns
and/or
Energy Based Rifles (long range may be an issue for some)
Sounds pretty interesting to me, shotguns should have some spread for certain.
The main reason I thought of the GL first was the very little amount of work it'd take the Devs. Model is already like a rifle, it'd really just be a case of making a duplicate with RC reqs or converting the existing ones to the rifle family, but I imagine Tanks wouldn't be too pleased with that.
Then again, duplicates of TC rifles could be made too, but you'd have to edit and code their attacks.
Forget My Name
29-09-12, 18:09
Yeah, for a start, give Rifle users access to grenade launchers. I agree with that. See where that takes us. If it works out well, then expand that into new aoe type of rifles for sure.
William Antrim
29-09-12, 19:05
Remove the range bonus on the redeemer and Executioner then. Simples.
Doc Holliday
29-09-12, 19:10
i dont think the executioner HAS a range bonus :) Aoe on them would be kinda cool though. totally a hunting weapon then rather than a piece of shit that it is now IMO. the redeemer would be worth a bit more.
Chuck Norris
29-09-12, 20:02
ROFL at this thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
handling on AoE weapons for tanks is kind of ridiculous btw... leave rifles alone there range and accuracy make them over powered as is!
Forget My Name
29-09-12, 20:26
ROFL at this thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why?
Decent leveling in this game is done with AOE weaponry.
Tanks have Cannons.
APU Monks have Spells.
SPies have Drones.
Isn't it then odd how the underused LEVELING play styles are...
Tank Melee
PE anything (yes, there are Pistol AOE, but they could be improved)
PPU
Non Drone Spy
Tradeskilling
See the pattern forming here? Giving Rifles AOE "might" help out Spies become something other than Droners while PEs become viable to more than hard core PE lovers.
I know people are going to misunderstand what I am saying here and point out that once capped or near capped, certain builds are just as good as others. I am not debating this. I am talking about LEVELING builds.
Why should the game be built around the boring and frankly broken mechanic of leveling one way just to play another?
In other games, you don't level you warrior just to reskill as a Wizard.
Bottom line is this: Make as many play styles as viable as possible. This has obvious benefits for any game, especially to new players who don't know how much of a pain it is to level certain ways, punishing them for making a bad decision that was out of their control.
Dribble Joy
29-09-12, 20:29
Mini rocket rare while we're at it. TL ~90 or so as a leveling weapon.
William Antrim
29-09-12, 22:49
Make grenades have melee req as they are technically a thrown weapon and then you have melee aoe too!
jeah and multi use like medkits. say they stack to 10. then you don't have to refill the qb so often.
I just imagine a soldier going all crazy throwing tons of grenades around blowing things up. That'd be great!
And the grenlauncher could also be a rifle, true ... everyone happy then :)
Chuck Norris
29-09-12, 23:33
its weird seeing all these new people in here suggesting stuff from like years ago or just straight up suggesting things from nc1 lmao.
an AoE-rifle would be awesome. but, folks, rifles as a weapon class are strong enough already. lets leave it this way. no rifle-grenades or -rockets please.This is completely irrelephant. AoE weapons are a leveling tool. AoE rifles would do nothing more than give rifle spies a chance to achieve WoC instead of being forced into droning.
Chuck Norris
29-09-12, 23:40
This is completely irrelephant. AoE weapons are a leveling tool. AoE rifles would do nothing more than give rifle spies a chance to achieve WoC instead of being forced into droning.
They are not forced into droning they can level to woc with a rifle or a pistol, thats what i did with my pe just takes 500x as long.... this all come back on WoC as usual just get rid of them and make rare weapons good again...
UN-NERF TRADE SKILLING EXP IM PISSED THAT I HAVE TO USE A WEAPON and FIGHT TO get WOC WTF!!!!!!
There's nothing wrong with making positive suggestions for the game, the more input and community discussion the better. Yes some things may have been discussed before, and yes comparisons will be made to NC1, what is wrong with that? It's a completely different team now, who are actively engaged in the community - so why not bounce around these ideas? Because you personally might not like them? Games like this evolve all the time, sometimes for good and sometimes for bad, but it's the community who decides which that is and the people who adapt that thrive. Even if the ideas are far fetched and won't get implemented, it might plant seed for future alterations.
The amount of negative and defensive people on the internet never ceases to amaze me :)
More tradeskill xp might be good, I've never played as a tradeskiller though so not sure how it compared to 'pre-nerf'. But to get back on topic, what really would b the downside to atleast 1 AoE rifle?
Also, like the melee idea for hand grenades, makes sense to me :) Rare BP-able grenade like the rare drones anyone? ha
Doc Holliday
30-09-12, 04:53
A melee tank with a big sword rushing around hacking the shit out of people and throwing grenades at clusters of mobs. Not forgetting the obligatory headbutt on the closest grim chaser at the time.
THIS would rock. too bad its all in my head.
There's nothing wrong with making positive suggestions for the game, the more input and community discussion the better. Yes some things may have been discussed before, and yes comparisons will be made to NC1, what is wrong with that?
Chuck Norris kind of reminds me of myself when I'm drunk... RAAAWWR RWAARRR FGDFGHLFGHFHFHFLH FUKING EXPLITING SHIT REMOVE DRONERS, PLOTING BEHIND DOORS RAWR OVERPOWERED RIFLES RAWWR NEW PPL SUGGESTING THINGS ETCR!
:rolleyes:
Forget My Name
30-09-12, 07:20
A melee tank with a big sword rushing around hacking the shit out of people and throwing grenades at clusters of mobs. Not forgetting the obligatory headbutt on the closest grim chaser at the time.
THIS would rock. too bad its all in my head.
You could slot a "grenade mod" to melee weapons, so when you swing your weapon, there would be a 25% chance of throwing out
a grenade in your general area.
:)
But yeah... AOE rifles... Great stuff :)
oh oh, pls no 25% chance stuff .... else we will soon have the ebony boots of mighty grenade throwing which give +38% ... nah thanks :)
To be honest I was always surprised there weren't more kinds of hand-grenades like the fusion blasts or raygun blasts...
there was trip mines :D
Now they were funny!
William Antrim
30-09-12, 14:40
oh oh, pls no 25% chance stuff .... else we will soon have the ebony boots of mighty grenade throwing which give +38% ... nah thanks :)
I actually laughed so hard I choked at this!
Drachenpaladin
30-09-12, 14:50
Make grenades available for any class by changing requirements to WEP only. Solved.
Of course we would need a Freedom strike equivalent for CA FSM, so that the other factions get useful grenades too. Or else TG would have to supply the whole server with their fire crackers^^
Well something strikes me here : fact you all act like spy's can't use AOE. They can in fact use lvl'ing HC weapons, basically all non-rare grenade launchers. I swear I saw a /24 spy in aggies on Titan and he was doing as much damage as a /24 tank... With AOE mind you.
Also you can already spec the spy to use grenades, iirc, it's just that the grenades a not super-efficient.
But if anything, perhaps the Fusion and Ray type of guns should be adjusted to make sense all across the board. Like giving them the same animation and damage/TL than their siblings would be somewhat fine :
Raygun/Fusion Drones = AOE
Raygun/Fusion Cannons = AOE
Raygun/Fusion Pistols = Single Target
Raygun/Fusion Rifles = Single Target
Raygun/Fusion Drones = AOE
Raygun/Fusion Cannons = AOE
Raygun/Fusion Pistols = AOE
Raygun/Fusion Rifles = AOE
William Antrim
30-09-12, 20:16
Spy can use grenade launchers up to tl40. It's hardly the same power as a doombeamer.
I would rather see the ray of god stay as it is. Like a hitech shotgun but I think the redeemer is well worth a boost. A good pe reachable grenade launcher at high end would be good though.
Chuck Norris
30-09-12, 20:29
they can use
http://www.techhaven.org/db/showitem/1571.html
I used to cap out str and con
dWintermut3
30-09-12, 20:54
I'm not sure if this is feasable in the game engine, but why not just turn shotguns into a cone AoE? and turn rayguns into their T-C equivalent?
Good idea to make hand grenades a melee weapon. That would not only make them actually useful, but also give Melee some much needed AOE.
As for Pistol and Rifle: Rockets in general really need to just fly straight, like hightech projectiles. As it is, the unstable trajectory is ridiculous and makes them almost useless compared to hightech projectiles, which go exactly where you aim every time. This is true for not only the mini rocket pistol, but also for the H-C rocket launchers, which are also useless.
There also needs to be a higher tl rocket pistol, around TL80. Not a rare though.
It's an interesting idea to make the grenade launcher a rifle, but I'm not really sure about that. I definitely think it's unfair for any class to get an aoe weapon to start out with, especially one so overpowered as the starter grenade launcher. A good way to give aoe to rifle and pistol would be to just make the fusion/rayguns aoe, to be consistent with the cannon versions.
Please have these changes ready for Patch 166! (Neocron 2.3?) ;) I want to level a spy at some point. :p
It's an interesting idea to make the grenade launcher a rifle, but I'm not really sure about that. I definitely think it's unfair for any class to get an aoe weapon to start out with, especially one so overpowered as the starter grenade launcher. A good way to give aoe to rifle and pistol would be to just make the fusion/rayguns aoe, to be consistent with the cannon versions.
Please have these changes ready for Patch 166! (Neocron 2.3?) ;) I want to level a spy at some point. :p
BTW all classes can use the TL3 grenade launcher, which is a great starter AOE weapon. On a spy, you only need 1 additional STR from the startup 2 STR.
Making Raygun/Fusion pistols and rifle be consistent with drones and HC would make a lot of sense, especially since those weapons are neglected because they suck both at PVP and PVE
they can use
http://www.techhaven.org/db/showitem/1571.html
I used to cap out str and con
I didn't even know that existed. That is just about in reach of the PE I guess!
It doesn't matter that everyone can use the grenade launcher. It will only get you so far, once you hit str cap.
On the subject of AoE - I just started my first droner. I'm not crying for a nerf, but I found it a bit surprising that the drones don't take their own AoE damage like players and mobs do....
On the subject of AoE - I just started my first droner. I'm not crying for a nerf, but I found it a bit surprising that the drones don't take their own AoE damage like players and mobs do....
I discovered this too over the weekend briefly when I was shooting myself too closely :/
Off the to bug reports forum me thinks :P
Chuck Norris
02-10-12, 17:27
On the subject of AoE - I just started my first droner. I'm not crying for a nerf, but I found it a bit surprising that the drones don't take their own AoE damage like players and mobs do....
take your LE out they drop really fast....
one thing everyone seems to be missing here is the handling on aoe Weapons is really bad they dont aim like rifles and pistols, thats one reason the way they are... I mean if i could be a tank and just use a pistol or a rifle that aim perfectly everytime why wouldnt i just use them over lame ass heavy weapons and put all my strength into resists or melee and be one bad ass hybrid.
this is why PE's need a class specific weapon and we dont need high TL AoE rifles or pistols! nuff said GG peace
On the subject of AoE - I just started my first droner. I'm not crying for a nerf, but I found it a bit surprising that the drones don't take their own AoE damage like players and mobs do....
This is all down to the LE. Without LE, you can kill your own self as much as you want. This is the same as with VHC, LE'd runners cannot damage their own stuff. It's actually a feature of the LE, and it has been like this for a decade or so, and I don't think we need more discussion of how shitty the overall experience of being LE is.
I can't help but think of this from the other side of the fence. Don't give more classes AoE, take it away from one instead.
Tanks have their AoE cannons and need to be right in the thick of battle to effectively use them in PvE. Clear shot (with the exception of grenades) to the area full of mobs, they're a big tough solider but have good AoE damage and the range available means they're in danger, especially in smaller spaces. Even a danger to themselves.
APU Monks are our glass cannon class and to get their AoE into battle they need to be close to the heart of it. They need to be within range of the mobs, have clear aim to the area mobs are in and get to have their massive AoE damage as they can kill themselves unless there's a PPU with them.
Then there's droners. A body stood half the world away, behind a rock in a room on his own. No danger to his body from mobs (99% of the time) and safely gets to send a drone into the heat of battle, where it can sit and fire dealing massive damage while playing on the drones biggest advantage. It's tiny and hard to hit. No risk to the character, at all.
Tanks - Big risk to use AoE, gotta think about it in high level dungeons, can solo if careful.
APU Monks - Biggest risk to use AoE, unless they have a friend to effectively use AoE in high level dungeons.
Droners - No risk at all using AoE. No tactics required other than somewhere to hide. Can solo any dungeon anywhere.
Surely the answer here is to remove AoE from Drones?
The advantage of droning is that you're a tiny target which can deal big direct damage, you're quick to move and hard to kill as a drone and require some foot work to kill as a character. How is being able to dish out all this AoE damage with next to zero risk to the character in any way fair and balanced in comparison to the other classes? Without AoE drones are still viable, it allows spies to hunt completely independantly as the spy himself is safe against all mobs if they hide somewhere good. They're also of use in OP fights as they can deal big damage directly from the skies while being very hard to take out.
Even though it's always been the case, I still find it very hard to believe that Drones get AoE at all.
Think about it!
Chuck Norris
02-10-12, 17:55
actually without AoE droners wouldnt be viable, unless stats get reworked as it is now I dont even think they can reach three star combat rank and it really hurts their dps, they can be out damaged by just about any other weapon. Go use a non aoe drone the dmg is pathetic.
If they're garbage in PvP with current stats, this just illustrates why so many people have droners at all, to farm stuff without any real risk.
Interesting point on removing it from drones. I wasn't aware of the Le contributing to their AoE damage, that makes sense.
Another thing I was surprised by is how when they run out of ammo or health, you just drop them and relaunch. Hey presto. No cloning or buying ammo, pretty big advantage to conventional weapons!
This thread being about AOE rifles, I don't see where this removing AOE drones came to topic.
What we want is ADDITIONAL ways of using AOE on mobs using spies, not a trade-off, not a nerf.
Apart from the occasional PVP Kami drone, the only thing viable about droners are AOE drones and farming mobs. Remove the AOE and the class is completely useless.
Besides I that most of the people promoting a droner nerf are just bitter players. Bittered by the fact they can't seem to level as fast as their droners couterpart while using single-target rifles and pistols. Now that they are halfway trough leveling, they don't wanna LOM back to droners and are just stuck at lv 70ish DEX and INT and all they can do about it is cry for droner nerfs on the forums.
Chuck Norris
02-10-12, 18:34
sounds like they should make lvling even easier not harder, for non aoe users... although im sure it would be exploitable
Interesting point on removing it from drones. I wasn't aware of the Le contributing to their AoE damage, that makes sense.
Another thing I was surprised by is how when they run out of ammo or health, you just drop them and relaunch. Hey presto. No cloning or buying ammo, pretty big advantage to conventional weapons!
Thats not really an advantage, the drone loses around 7% condition each time you drop it and if your body is far from the drone, you have to fly it all the way back or drop it and run to it, otherwise you lose the drone.
The result of this is, someone using a gun or psi along with just a little bit of recycling skill can stay in their levelling spot indefinitely, while a droner would have to have up to 115 repair for the highest level drone to do that.
You'd need 102 repair skill and a repair glove, thats 185 dexterity skill points that you could of spent on your combat skills or agility. Recycling on the other hand only takes around 50 for high TL ammos.
Fair point, I guess most people will carry a few drones just in case.
Kame, relax mate, I'm not for a nerf I'm just making observations. As for feeling bitter, I save that for very rare occasions in the real world :) I'm not too bothered droners level faster, infact I just made a droner if you read the thread, I've never played as one in the entire 10 years of NC so some of these point are new to me is all. I know forums and comments are full of corrosive people, but my comments are by no means 'OMG NERF WTF' are they?.... I agree with you that additional AoE is needed for Rifle users and I've made some fairly valid suggestions.
Dribble Joy
02-10-12, 21:07
The issue is how much easier it is to 'play the system' (if you know what I mean) with a droner than any other AoE capable class. Fix the drones and we wouldn't have as much of a problem with them as we do now.
Would be nice if rifle users also had AoE, yeah..
.
It is called a rifle for a reason.
If you want to snipe and cause AOE damge, then go and buy a cannon with a set of balls.
Kame, relax mate, I'm not for a nerf I'm just making observations. As for feeling bitter, I save that for very rare occasions in the real world :) I'm not too bothered droners level faster, infact I just made a droner if you read the thread, I've never played as one in the entire 10 years of NC so some of these point are new to me is all. I know forums and comments are full of corrosive people, but my comments are by no means 'OMG NERF WTF' are they?.... I agree with you that additional AoE is needed for Rifle users and I've made some fairly valid suggestions.
Sry, sometimes I mistake people with valid questioning for OP-cryout-nerf nerds. No harsh feelings I hope.
Forget My Name
03-10-12, 01:45
The issue is how much easier it is to 'play the system' (if you know what I mean) with a droner than any other AoE capable class. Fix the drones and we wouldn't have as much of a problem with them as we do now.
I don't agree. Leave Drones and Spies alone.
Fix the system. Stop putting band aids on bleeding stumps.
This is what the Dev. team is doing. Instead if punishing all Spies, the Devs. are correctly addressing the issues; Leveling areas with safe spots and players who are hacking/exploiting. I applaud (slow clap lol) the Devs. for doing the right thing here.
The issue at hand
Players, many of whom are Spy Droners, are exploiting safe spots in many cave systems.
What some players are proposing, incorrectly
Nerf Spy Droners.
What the Devs. are doing, correctly
Banning Hackers/Exploiters, and fixing Cave System and safe spots.
If you want to snipe and cause AOE damge, then go and buy a cannon with a set of balls.
No one has suggested Rifles be BOTH sniper and AOE. Many of the suggestions are for short range AOE attacks, like shot gun effects or grenades launcher effects.
Chuck Norris
03-10-12, 03:11
okay make all drones the size (FAT AS FUCK) of punishers so they cant go "hide"?
Ive been saying this for years to no avail which honestly makes me think somewhere in the Dev team they want it to be like this.
People would use punisher if it was not so huge, the things hit box is like half the screen and can not fit through some doors
Dribble Joy
03-10-12, 08:48
I don't agree. Leave Drones and Spies alone.
What I meant was fix their ability to hide/clip/whatever these players use to avoid loosing the drone when they should.
IMO it's all the matter of lvling speed and have nothing to do with usual playstyle. Thing is - that it's still possible to lvl your spy as a rifle without any AoE - it's just takes a little longer. I've capped and WoC'ced my one on Terra without any AoE - things are getting easy when you get Silent Hunter, First Love or Healing Light <3
Yes, as a rifle spy you will be close to unable to soloing, says, RL bossroom - but hey, get your team for that. Once I saw two tanks having just one working plasma wave completely cleared the RL bossroom - it took ages but they had their fun :D
So yes, use those AoE guns that are accessible for a spy - a class limitation is not just for teh lulz, it's for some reason. AoE rifles, if any, shouldn't be stronger or having higher tl than a AoE pistols. If you want to deal a huge amount of AoE damage, lvl your tank and get your Warhammer.
So yes, use those AoE guns that are accessible for a spy - a class limitation is not just for teh lulz, it's for some reason. AoE rifles, if any, shouldn't be stronger or having higher tl than a AoE pistols. If you want to deal a huge amount of AoE damage, lvl your tank and get your Warhammer.
Totally agree with this, if there was a Grenade launching rifle it would have to be much shorter range, like the current HC one - or in the case of the rocket pistol, unreliable to aim and likley to hurt yourself :P
Another possible idea I had, for either a rifle or a grenade, make it a 1 shot clip and when fired it produces something like the psi-barrell spells but lower powered and short range. Far fetched I know but an interesting image :P
Another possible idea I had, for either a rifle or a grenade, make it a 1 shot clip and when fired it produces something like the psi-barrell spells but lower powered and short range. Far fetched I know but an interesting image :P
Uh like a modified flaregun or something. That could actually be pretty cool.
AOE is the easiest way to level so i can see why people are asking for an AOE Rifle.
Where does it end though? Melee AOE?
AOE is the easiest way to level so i can see why people are asking for an AOE Rifle.
Where does it end though? Melee AOE?
By changing the handgranade req's to melee as someone has already said. Would make very good sence IMO.
no need for a AOE rifle.
If you want AOE, play Droner, APU, Heavy Tank.
Rifle Spy is good enough atm, no need to lvl more and more easier than it is now
AOE is the easiest way to level so i can see why people are asking for an AOE Rifle.
Where does it end though? Melee AOE?
Did you read the thread? a melee req. for hand grenades has been suggested, actually makes sense in a lore aspect, but not sure how it'd be balanced.
Uh like a modified flaregun or something. That could actually be pretty cool.
Yeah something like that might work, or a high-tech version that lays down some small area damage - might require a lot of code and so on which is why I originally just suggested the Grenade Launcher - it already looks and animates like a rifle, and there are plenty of present day grenade launchers that are like rifles....
http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/grenade/gl06/m79-2.jpg
http://www.mpogd.com/images/news/1727/w6.jpg
People want melee to have hand grenades?
Melee is close combat where the Fighter & Weapon are one.
Hand Grenade is throwing a projectile which in effect is ranged combat.
What happened to common sense?
People want melee to have hand grenades?
Melee is close combat where the Fighter & Weapon are one.
Hand Grenade is throwing a projectile which in effect is ranged combat.
What happened to common sense?
It also makes sense that a steroid-head melee Tank would be able to throw a grenade with some effect, no? Would throwing knives count as melee? We're only toying with ideas anyway, don't be offended :P It just might be a neat addition that means people would actually see them being used other than a ornament on someone's character.
It also makes sense that a steroid-head melee Tank would be able to throw a grenade with some effect, no? Would throwing knives count as melee? We're only toying with ideas anyway, don't be offended :P It just might be a neat addition that means people would actually see them being used other than a ornament on someone's character.
Throwing knifes is also ranged combat. I know its only ideas :) but when the devs starting taking them onboard you'll have people start coming up with ludicrous ideas like lets make tanks ressurect people or monks should carry rocket launchers.
Instead of Rifle AOE how about introducing Explosives to the game which would require INT & TC the runner takes the beating while deploying the explosive and once deployed after x amount of time depending on skill they have a detonator which they can use to ignite the the explosive but it would require a safe distance otherwise runner would take damage from explosion.
INT 50 TC - 75 Basic
INT 80 TC - 100 Mid
INT 100 TC - 125 High
INT 105 TC - 150 Extreme
even though, melee is melee and not grenade suicide squad :)
The ideas are not that bad, but it is like -> my neighbour got a new car, and want a new and better car or that class can deal hugh amount of damage in a wide area, and i want a weapon that deals more damage and a bigger area .......
You have now 4 slot servers , what i pretty much dont like, but the times were over when the server were full with 1 slot servers so nvm , and now you have 4 slots for playing this game, so if you like the AOE part you can choose and create 4 characters.....
Ithink we have other problems than implement new weapons to have carebear country save.....
William Antrim
03-10-12, 15:37
Throwing knifes is also ranged combat. I know its only ideas :) but when the devs starting taking them onboard you'll have people start coming up with ludicrous ideas like lets make tanks ressurect people or monks should carry rocket launchers.
Instead of Rifle AOE how about introducing Explosives to the game which would require INT & TC the runner takes the beating while deploying the explosive and once deployed after x amount of time depending on skill they have a detonator which they can use to ignite the the explosive but it would require a safe distance otherwise runner would take damage from explosion.
INT 50 TC - 75 Basic
INT 80 TC - 100 Mid
INT 100 TC - 125 High
INT 105 TC - 150 Extreme
You're dissing my suggestion to make melee users have grenades because you throw a grenade then you come out with something ridiculous like that?
Seriously?
We have turrets already. They are better than your c4. This isnt battlefield dude.
P.s if one class gets to use AOE then everyone should. That is the entire point of this thread.
P.s if one class gets to use AOE then everyone should. That is the entire point of this thread.
I didn't read your suggestion just the few previous posts about Melee and Grenades which common sense says shouldn't go together.
It's that simple.
You said if one class gets AoE then everyone should. Classes are exactly that each have their advantages and disadvantages they all shouldn't have the same abilities otherwise what's the point?
P.s if one class gets to use AOE then everyone should. That is the entire point of this thread.
ANY class can use AoE, similar to ANY class can use any other weapon. It's just a matter of top tl. Rifle spies are free to use grenades and grenade launchers. Tanks are free to use pistols and rifles, etc. The only more or less unique AoE - is psi one, but for some strange reason we don't see here any single thread about "oh gimme an AoE spells to my tankeh" :D
William Antrim
03-10-12, 16:51
ANY class can use AoE, similar to ANY class can use any other weapon. It's just a matter of top tl. Rifle spies are free to use grenades and grenade launchers. Tanks are free to use pistols and rifles, etc. The only more or less unique AoE - is psi one, but for some strange reason we don't see here any single thread about "oh gimme an AoE spells to my tankeh" :D
Oddly enough Tanks dont need psi AOE as they already have it with the MASSIVE CANNON they already use...
Haxxor I am the one who suggested the Melee requirement goes onto grenades.
Yes every weapon type should have aoe. I dont think you realise how much of an effect it has on game mechanics and it is something that we have campaigned for for years. Everyone (except the rifle combat chars) have aoe. It is not a case of every class as they all have some form of aoe. What we need is to have a rare rocket pistol and a rifle of some description to bring them into line with all of the other weapons.
Why dont rifles have it? they need it. It is that simple.
I agree with William for the most part, I think just a lower powered AoE is better than nothing, like with Rocket pistols. They're nice, but compared to what Tanks and Monks can wield... - better than nothing though. Change GL to Dex + RC and add in a few lower TL rocket launchers for tanks :D muahahahaha
Agreed. To me it looks like Tanks should have the best AOE, then APU's. Pistols/rifles should have high single target dps with some weapon exeptions that deal average (at most) AOE damage , but ofcourse not as much as Tanks can do :)
ANY class can use AoE, similar to ANY class can use any other weapon. It's just a matter of top tl. Rifle spies are free to use grenades and grenade launchers. Tanks are free to use pistols and rifles, etc. The only more or less unique AoE - is psi one, but for some strange reason we don't see here any single thread about "oh gimme an AoE spells to my tankeh" :D
A TL23 Grenade Launcher isn't going to do shit for a Spy.
Apart from giving him STR/CON xp.
Forget My Name
03-10-12, 18:31
Okay guys, calm down, everyone... I understand that some of you may be too lazy to read threads, and instead jump to conclusions based on the last few posts of a thread, so let me refresh the thread right quick.
Neocron leveling is done by hording mobs together and using AOEs. If you wish to use single target atatcks, that is fine, but EVENTUALLY you'll get bored after a few weeks of not making a single attribute level, then go to AOE, and secretly understand what we are all talking about here.
Giving AOE to all weapon types ONLY serves to expand the playable builds in the game WHILE LEVELING.
End game PvP is all about Single Target Damage "for the most part" so no one here is talking about PvP. Got it?
Right now, people who understand the game's mechanics and want to level at a decent pace (see, cap in a few weeks instead of a year) use AOE attacks to do so.
So, experienced Neocron players wishing to cap their characters for end game PvP quickly use the following weapons;
Drones - AOE
Cannons - AOE
APU Spells - AOE
Pistols - AOE (although weak, AOE still exists here for pistol users)
Rifles and Melee have NO AOE, and as such is not used by players who want to level faster than a year.
By giving these weapon types AOE, the game entices players to use Rifles and Melee for leveling.
As of now, anyone who is capped and doesn't play 24/7 used a Spy Droner, Tank Heavy, Pistol PE, APU Monk.
(Before any of you PPU users pipe up, you teamed up with AOE users for the exp, don't lie)
The proposed fixes does NOTHING to damage PvP in anyway. Giving melee users Grenades and Rifles users Cone Based Shotgun effects only lets players use those weapon types for LEVELING.
Go ahead and roll up your melee/rifle users, and level in Regants/Graves/Launcher Pits next to AOE users, then after a few weeks come at me bro when you see the light.
William Antrim
03-10-12, 18:35
I wish we could sticky individual posts.
Agree with pretty much every point there, it'll breathe a bit more life and variety into the game. Lomming to another set up should be a last resort, not common practice, LOMs used to have SI to discourage this.
Chuck Norris
03-10-12, 19:08
man i cant wait to stop using heavy combat on my tank and start sniping with grenades, how high is everyone?
Everyone can Aoe to an extent and i dont think everyone should be able to do everything the same, thats what differentiates classes, you want to AoE your ass off play a tank!
you want to res and buff play a monk...
Im starting a campaign to give tanks PSI back please OMG I CANT BELIVE THAT TANKS CANT USE PSI!!!! how is this fair to them, they are the only class that cant use PSI i dont agree with this and want it changed noW!! someone stuff a cork in my bloody ******
William Antrim
03-10-12, 19:25
It is not a class issue.
It is a weapon type issue.
Please understand that.
Dribble Joy
03-10-12, 19:30
Im starting a campaign to give tanks PSI back please OMG I CANT BELIVE THAT TANKS CANT USE PSI!!!! how is this fair to them, they are the only class that cant use PSI i dont agree with this and want it changed noW!! someone stuff a cork in my bloody ******
A most eloquent argument sir.
Never mind that background wise they were never meant to have any and it gave them next to nothing anyway. That which it did was replaced with nanites and you got another 25 points in agl.
It is not a class issue.
It is a weapon type issue.
Please understand that.
This. It cant be that difficult to add a little bit of splash to say the raygun or atomsmelt variants of rifles, it would be more fun to level a spy if it wasnt '100% droning or dont bother'
Oh, this goes for PE's aswell, worst class to get any WOC on? (correct me if im wrong)
Chuck Norris
03-10-12, 19:42
This. It cant be that difficult to add a little bit of splash to say the raygun or atomsmelt variants of rifles, it would be more fun to level a spy if it wasnt '100% droning or dont bother'
Oh, this goes for PE's aswell, worst class to get any WOC on? (correct me if im wrong)
its only a pita for them since they have to drug to use an rk1000 until they reach the cap, which give them a bugg'd rank (when the drugs wear off, rather quickly) which is less exp gain, when you are closer to cap... since your gaining a low % rather then a set number per shot of dmg done
Also please bring back malivens dildo or w/e his name was and make sure it shoots holy lightening barrel with no req, k thx
AOE rifles!!!! awesome bring it on - I've got a rifle spy and don't intend to grind endlessly to achieve WOC. I'm going old skool and making a dissy spy. Drop WOC completely and bring on AOE rifles!!!!!! Best balancing since the Hybrid nerf!
Yet another well thought out and reasoned reply 'Chuck'....... Sniping with grenades? That's not possible now anyway with the current GL :P Please don't be so belittling just because other people have contrasting opinions to your own, this is only a game after all.
I don't think tanks would lose much without the GL if a lower TL rocket launcher was brought in, or even if they kept it and some other form of low-damage small-aoe weapon was given to Rifles, what's that harm? Pretty much all other weapon types have some form of AoE - it's not a question of class. Infact, PE's can use HC to some extent, so why couldn't Tanks use Rifles to more of an extent too? Variety is great in a game like this, if people want to stick to class based PvP then Tf2 is a good bet :) It'd be good to see people experimenting with stuff.
amen!
Yet another well thought out and reasoned reply 'Chuck'....... Sniping with grenades? That's not possible now anyway with the current GL :P Please don't be so belittling just because other people have contrasting opinions to your own, this is only a game after all.
I don't think tanks would lose much without the GL if a lower TL rocket launcher was brought in, or even if they kept it and some other form of low-damage small-aoe weapon was given to Rifles, what's that harm? Pretty much all other weapon types have some form of AoE - it's not a question of class. Infact, PE's can use HC to some extent, so why couldn't Tanks use Rifles to more of an extent too? Variety is great in a game like this, if people want to stick to class based PvP then Tf2 is a good bet :) It'd be good to see people experimenting with stuff.
Chuck Norris
03-10-12, 20:18
Yet another well thought out and reasoned reply 'Chuck'....... Sniping with grenades? That's not possible now anyway with the current GL :P Please don't be so belittling just because other people have contrasting opinions to your own, this is only a game after all.
I don't think tanks would lose much without the GL if a lower TL rocket launcher was brought in, or even if they kept it and some other form of low-damage small-aoe weapon was given to Rifles, what's that harm? Pretty much all other weapon types have some form of AoE - it's not a question of class. Infact, PE's can use HC to some extent, so why couldn't Tanks use Rifles to more of an extent too? Variety is great in a game like this, if people want to stick to class based PvP then Tf2 is a good bet :) It'd be good to see people experimenting with stuff.
believe it or not there are pistol and rifle tanks sorry to burst your bubble there are EVEN PA's for them to do this! go check out twilight gaurdians fac supply. I make these great replies because the IDEAS ARE SO GREAT Lmfao
http://www.techhaven.org/db/view/fsm/tg.html
I'm well aware of that Chuck, but you don't see them very often as most people want to stick to the cookie-cutter set-ups which level quickest - one of the main pillars of the reasoning behind the Rifle AoE suggestion.
Are you intentionally playing devil's advocate or are you sincere in your juvenile style reply? :) Really, I don't feel this is something that would be implemented fast anyway, but couldn't it be tried and if the big response is negative then removed again? Isn't this how it's been since 2002? Games with a long life like this are very Darwinian and we can see where new ideas have flourished and failed, including the whole NC2/DoY debacle.
If you disagree, then ok, but what else might you suggest instead? Or just keep things as they are? Do you agree some changes might have to be made at all in this game? Lets hear something constructive instead of dismissive from you.
Chuck Norris
03-10-12, 20:58
leave most everything the same except monks and PE's making class specific items to bring them in line with other classes................... OR roll everything back to nc1 style values where everyone was a bad mutha OP greatness minus para.
Its really not as hard as everyone is trying to over complicate things... maybe some of this new crazyness could be in NC:R or NC3 we got to be realistic!
I think a rebalance is something which should be on agenda but i know there's alot more that needs looking into first.
I think a rebalance is something which should be on agenda but i know there's alot more that needs looking into first.Rebalancing? What classes or weapons would be too strong or weak? We must not confuse "balance" and "i want to roXXor the game easily with my favourite class". I believe things are pretty balanced these days. Maybe not perfect, but better than ever. Runspeed and clipping may be a problem, monks are not.
Rebalancing? What classes or weapons would be too strong or weak? We must not confuse "balance" and "i want to roXXor the game easily with my favourite class". I believe things are pretty balanced these days. Maybe not perfect, but better than ever. Runspeed and clipping may be a problem, monks are not.
I dont get it.. Why do some people think that balance is good now..?
Maybe class vs. class balance is alright (but not really better - its just other classes that dominate now), but weapon balance is horrible..
Rifle users have Dissy and AK.
Pistol users have BHG and Xbow.
Heavy users have CS, Dev and Ioncannon.
Melee users have nothing.
APU's have Fire Apoc.
Thats not even close to balance IMO.
Forget My Name
03-10-12, 23:12
Balance is all fucked up now.
I can take hits from a 90/90 fire mob with no problem, but 60/60 hoppers and 44/44(whatever) reaper spiders destroy me.
The game balance is all over the place.
Chuck Norris
04-10-12, 00:37
Balance is all fucked up now.
I can take hits from a 90/90 fire mob with no problem, but 60/60 hoppers and 44/44(whatever) reaper spiders destroy me.
The game balance is all over the place.
You think thats bad, just dont go fight mobs that poison.... afaik droners are a necessary evil in 2.2... good luck doing mc5 or DoY tunnels with a team or even getting a team together to do something like that. without droners the item rate of rare cpus and illeagles/slot enhancers would be almost zero
You think thats bad, just dont go fight mobs that poison.... afaik droners are a necessary evil in 2.2... good luck doing mc5 or DoY tunnels with a team or even getting a team together to do something like that. without droners the item rate of rare cpus and illeagles/slot enhancers would be almost zero
Those things should be fucking difficult to get. You should have to assemble a large, well-organized team to get them.
William Antrim
04-10-12, 09:52
I am going to stick my neck out and say slot enhancers should not be that hard to get. They can only be used on store bought weapons. Therefore they are used for levelling weaponry 90% of the time. These should be simple to get to entice people to level in those places. The chips should be tougher yes but still doable.
Chuck Norris
04-10-12, 09:58
ya ultimas and slot enhancers aside from psi modules are basically fo rleveling weapons since you can prett easily cap rare weapons and u cant use enhancers on them
Someone mentioned PPUs here... I hope you do know that due to strange current system of PPU getting team exp it's easier and faster to lvling solo? Otherwise you're forced to look a new team each 5-6 lvls, cuz you're getting lesser exp than they are, as a result they're lvling faster and stops giving you any exp. So if we are talking about AoE here, may I have AoE Soulcluster or at least PPU lvling system reworked please?
Back to topic: IMO we should separate things here - there is a fast lvling and usual gameplay. Which one suits you - for you to decide. It's still possible to spies with rifles, tanks with melee and ppus with soulclusters, and it doesn't take ages even, just slower.
Someone mentioned PPUs here... I hope you do know that due to strange current system of PPU getting team exp it's easier and faster to lvling solo? Otherwise you're forced to look a new team each 5-6 lvls, cuz you're getting lesser exp than they are, as a result they're lvling faster and stops giving you any exp. So if we are talking about AoE here, may I have AoE Soulcluster or at least PPU lvling system reworked please?
Back to topic: IMO we should separate things here - there is a fast lvling and usual gameplay. Which one suits you - for you to decide. It's still possible to spies with rifles, tanks with melee and ppus with soulclusters, and it doesn't take ages even, just slower.
Yeah PPU leveling kinda went out the window with 2.2.. I didnt have any problems leveling my PPU as PPU in 2.1 O_o
ya ultimas and slot enhancers aside from psi modules are basically fo rleveling weapons since you can prett easily cap rare weapons and u cant use enhancers on them
Don't forget ion weapons ulties are sexy for those as well as slot enhancers
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