View Full Version : TITAN and TERRA - fragmentation
I'm certain this has been asked before, but *why* are we fragmenting an already small community into two distinct servers?
Bizarre.
Titan is based in Germany.
Terra is based in Canada.
lag.
2.) DDOS
3.) Ping
4.) Economy
5.) New Players
2.) DDOS
All IP addresses can be DDOSed.
3.) Ping
Would be nice to move Terra to Germany.
4.) Economy
The game play is the same so the economy will be the same after 6 months. No change.
5.) New Players
What do you base this on?
I could come with a pretty competent reasoning.. I do not want to speak badly of the hardworking volunteers however, since I do have a lot of respect for them.
But as your last reply, Zii "imply" there really isnt a GOOD reason for it.
terra cant be moved as it is kirks own server. and theres some legal stuff going on.
terra cant be moved as it is kirks own server. and theres some legal stuff going on.
That we do know. However, the database itself can be moved (or else they wouldnt be discussing character transfers, internely).
I think the new server is breathing a "bit of life" into a game some thought had already died!
Terra is staying put in Canada for the foreseeable future. I can barely play on Terra right now due to extreme lag from the UK.
Even the mention of Titan, and the prospect of rebuilding a new economy has brought players back left and right.
There are many, many reasons as to why this is a great move by the volunteer support team.
I think the new server is breathing a "bit of life" into a game some thought had already died!
By forcing PVP'ers to PVE Again..? Thats like the worst reasoning ever Aim.. :p
(on a sidenote to you, Aim: My Steam doesnt currently Work, thats why I havent been online there for ages :( )
james_finn
19-09-12, 23:18
I think a fresh start on a new server is really just what the doctor ordered, especially with the influx of new runners! Shame there couldn't have been a major balancing patch first to make it fresh to everyone putting all people back on a level peg, but beggars cannot be choosers!
I wonder who will be the first to have a rare weapon, and the first clan to have an OP, and the first to kill regant, and the first to get an MC5 chip....!
2.) DDOS
All IP addresses can be DDOSed.
3.) Ping
Would be nice to move Terra to Germany.
4.) Economy
The game play is the same so the economy will be the same after 6 months. No change.
5.) New Players
What do you base this on?
First of all, we all want the same thing as a community, and that is to achieve the best future for Neocron.
So let's not define us over our differences, but thru our similarities.
2.) Yes, they can be attackd ofc. However, our great volunteer team has build counter measures now. I assume these are connected to the new data center and the new servers.
3.) Yes, it would be nice to move them, but it is not possible. The reason is that those servers belong to Kirk. He is paying them, which is very nice. However, at least for us in Europe, the data center in Canada is sub-optimal because of the bad ping, the horrifying lags, and its vulnerability to DDOS. Because of the DDOS attacks and their implications Terra was offline most of the time for almost ten days now and nobody could play.
4.) In the new statement for the release of Titan it says:
"We have heard about concerns regarding the "fresh economy" of TITAN being endangered by existing dupe and money exploits.
While we still need to ship #175 to fix some of these issues properly, a good bunch have already been addressed serverside to either prevent or monitor abuse. Please be advised that we will not show much patience here. Anyone found deliberately exploiting will be banned. Period."
People should be very careful imo.
FYI the DDOS attacks began after Zoltan banhammered ca. 60 accs to cheater hell in a concerted action because of exploiting & duping. The same day some lonely 14 year old with acne who never had a girl made it his mission to destroy Neocron with DDOS attacks after announcing it in IRC even. The good thing is, if that guy continues to be a criminal some day he will get caught for another cyber crime and I hope he'll rot in jail then.
5.) Experience. When the new acc creation went live a few weeks ago pops jumped from a meager 3-4% to 13% and more. I expect this to continue. But it cannot if the current server has a bad ping for ppl from Europe, lags like hell, and gets ddosed every day for 12 hours by banned cheaters which fukks it up beyond recognition (which is its current state after the last DDOS attack anyway).
That's why I think that Titan is the right step.
Terra and Mars will stay so ppl can always log in to their beloved chars and appas. Nobody's forced to change.
Those who wanna have their reasons. And hopes, I assume.
Furthermore in my opinion the ressources of the volunteer team should go into developing the patch(es), bugfixing, and balancing the game, instead of building & programming the char transfer.
By forcing PVP'ers to PVE Again..? Thats like the worst reasoning ever Aim.. :p
(on a sidenote to you, Aim: My Steam doesnt currently Work, thats why I havent been online there for ages :( )
Considering the stagnation of NC in recent years I don't think "breathing a bit of life" into the game is bad reasoning at all. It's got to the point of desperation in my eyes, and this has done the trick (for now at least) to get some more players, which is EXACTLY what NC needs right now! It has become borderline incest in the last few years ...
As for pvp'ers playing pve, it's an fps rpg mmo. If you only want fps play COD. I know you love this game too much, and I wish I could side with you, but you signed up for leveling when you started playing a game like this. After ten+ years I'm surprised we haven't had to start over more times (considering the work this game really needs to keep it playable with a big pop and taking into account modern competition - PS2 etc.).
I do hope for your (and a little of my) sake they allow char transfers at some point ... will be boring as fuck with out ya :P
As for pvp'ers playing pve, it's an fps rpg mmo. If you only want fps play COD. I know you love this game too much, and I wish I could side with you, but you signed up for leveling when you started playing a game like this. After ten+ years I'm surprised we haven't had to start over more times (considering the work this game really needs to keep it playable with a big pop and taking into account modern competition - PS2 etc.).
I play BF3 ;)
That does get boring in the long run though, since I cant actually Loose anything in it.
Heh if we had had to start over several times I wouldnt still be here.. :p
I do hope for your (and a little of my) sake they allow char transfers at some point ... will be boring as fuck with out ya :P
Yeah, me too. I can wait, and will wait till they start doing character transfers. However, I wont be playing Again till that happens.
Or till everyone moves back to Terra, but with the DDoS'ing child not-being-in-jail-like-he-should, I doubt thats gonna happen.
And Again, I have simply spend too much time on my 3 accounts to be willing to start over (and I dont have the time either - by the time I would have a capped/outfitted character on Titan, they would probably have let character transfers happen anyway).
That does get boring in the long run though, since I cant actually Loose anything in it.
Heh if we had had to start over several times I wouldnt still be here..
hmm, sorry but arent you contradicting yourself there?
first you say, if you cant loose anything, it gets boring. next you say, if you lost your work you put into levelling your chars, you wouldnt be here anymore.
so what then? you want to play a game where you might risk loosing things (items, level time, etc) BUT you never actually want to really loose stuff? else you quit? :)
hmm, sorry but arent you contradicting yourself there?
first you say, if you cant loose anything, it gets boring. next you say, if you lost your work you put into levelling your chars, you wouldnt be here anymore.
so what then? you want to play a game where you might risk loosing things (items, level time, etc) BUT you never actually want to really loose stuff? else you quit? :)
No what he is saying is what any sane person would be saying.
He doesnt want to spend months and months building chars and an empire to lose it all in one foul swoop, however there should be risk involved with playing the game and PVP.
No what he is saying is what any sane person would be saying.
He doesnt want to spend months and months building chars and an empire to lose it all in one foul swoop, however there should be risk involved with playing the game and PVP.
^ That..
How could anyone not get that? o_O
Theres a huge difference from loosing a couple of items on a character, to loosing everything on 12 characters - including the characters themself..
Facts, not my opinions:
Any server can be attacked, althought some can handle it better then others.
Terra was recently (well somewhat recently) moved to Canada, so it should be easy enough to move back if they really wanted to barring some serious unforeseen situation they don't want to speak about.
Opinions against the new server are not without merrit, example; the old pvp server and current population size.
KK is trying to pick the company up out of the dirt wile saving an old outdated and underplayed fan favorite (favorite being debatable depending on the day you ask the person. =D), this new server could simply be the first step in a much bigger plan that the player base can't yet see. (sacrafices now for greater rewards later...if all goes according to plan)
European players are now experiencing a taste of what US/Canada players have delt with for nearly a decade. (maybe a bit more severe)
If these new server changes are in fact what KK has in mind, it's going to happen regardless of wether or not you want it to. (that's assuming they do manage to do it, everyone knows there track record)
That concludes this episode of: "Facts! brought to you with love, care, and plasma by Genji."
This episode brought to you by the "Players for Genji, President 2012". Don't forget to vote.
MadMeleeFreak
20-09-12, 12:58
By forcing PVP'ers to PVE Again..?
Seriously? That crap again? NC is not just about PvP and in it's best times the community hardly consistet of just pure PvPer's. As someone else posted already: If you can't be bothered to level and hunt rares you were utterly wrong in your choice of game. Go play CoD or CS:GO.
Seriously? That crap again? NC is not just about PvP and in it's best times the community hardly consistet of just pure PvPer's. As someone else posted already: If you can't be bothered to level and hunt rares you were utterly wrong in your choice of game. Go play CoD or CS:GO.
See, the problem with this *selfcensured* statement is that I already have leveled 12 characters (not counting the many capped characters I have deleted over the years). I have already farmed 10k+ techs, endless amounts of WoC discs and so on. I have "done my time"..
I am aware that not everyone is a PVP'er, although I do have a feeling that at least 90% on the fanbase that have been playing for year after year mainly are PVP'ers..
Some of us, who have been here for years Arent exactly teenagers anymore.. We just do not have the time to do it all over Again..
How hard can that be to understand? O_o
I'm sure there will be some sort of char transfer in the future. so those problems will be solved and you can happily enjoy your already capped chars then.
peace :)
I saw the population at 15% last night. Hopefully that holds.
William Antrim
20-09-12, 18:28
After the stagnation of the last few years how is anyone left NOT a pvper.
I wanted to rant about fragmenting the community at first.; but if you're staying on Terra that's your own fault. The server is so polluted with duped items and creds, it's basically ruined.
I wanted to rant about fragmenting the community at first.; but if you're staying on Terra that's your own fault. The server is so polluted with duped items and creds, it's basically ruined.
I don't want a transfer for this very reason. Fresh server, fresh start, fresh experience, new history to be made.
shouldn't split the pop.. close terra imo
I wanted to rant about fragmenting the community at first.; but if you're staying on Terra that's your own fault. The server is so polluted with duped items and creds, it's basically ruined.
amen
Apocalypsox
21-09-12, 21:13
Just logged in to see 21% on Titan.
Speaks well enough for itself.
Seems my original question was misconstrued.
I meant that Terra should be closed down and Titan should continue its promising existence. However a char transfer service ought to be implemented much later from Terra to Titan.
Some of us, who have been here for years Arent exactly teenagers anymore.. We just do not have the time to do it all over Again..
My characters represent a decade of work that shall not, and cannot, be repeated. I am 40 years old and shall turn 41 this year. I have about thirty years left and 40 if I am lucky. I'm not going to level up and cap another four chars. The idea is faintly ridiculous :D
My characters represent a decade of work that shall not, and cannot, be repeated. I am 40 years old and shall turn 41 this year. I have about thirty years left and 40 if I am lucky. I'm not going to level up and cap another four chars. The idea is faintly ridiculous :D
Only 27 here, 28 in about a month. But with a fulltime job (often quite a lot more than fulltime), salsa 2-4 times a week, random dates and random drinking, there really isnt a lot of time to spare :p
And I currently have 12 capped characters on Terra.. Fat chance that Im gonna do that Again lol.
Doc Holliday
22-09-12, 04:55
agreed with drop out in what hes saying. I do have slightly more time on my hands at the moment as im only working part time and studying (if you can call it that) part time. I also have a distinct lack of money which means i play to save what i have (neocrons great for making you forget to eat and stuff.)
However. I truly believe some kind of transfer should be offered for us if at all possible.
Im gonna go out on a limb here with the most radical idea yet but here goes. If you cannot transfer the database and do server merges or what ever behind the scenes to allow players to use our Terran chars on Titan then I would like like to offer a suggestion of how to placate the mob.
Heads up GM team this is gonna be labour intensive. Assuming you can see peoples chars on terra would it be possible to allow people to roll the equivalent on Titan and then have a GM level them to the equivalent level on Titan? ( i can hear the groans ) Yes i realise this will be time consuming etc as it would have to be done on a case by case basis etc and would need some prep work doing by the runner themselves (ie have all chars created and ready to rock when the gm says right its your turn son your up.)
Sorry guys but the pacifist/diplomat in me is trying to see a way to placate everyone and retain as much of that 20%+ pops as possible and grow it. This is whats more commonly known as a monumental ballache but it (could) work.
It also eliminates any issues of fucking up the economy or any of the other crap thats been floated around about why a transfer is not viable etc.
My best suggestion would be make it restricted to a certain number of Characters. 4 springs to mind as its a 4 slot server but that really would be up to you guys.
Ps. I would pay if i could to get my toons moved. i wish we could to show some real tangible support. Kind words on a forum dont pay the bills.
TL;DR? (Runner rolls char on Titan who wants to transfer over from Terra. GM levels char to equivalent status on Titan. Runner is happy)
:D
I know what you suggested is possible. I had a char on Venus which I attempted to transfer to Pandore during nc1 -> nc2 transfer period. Unfortunately the character data except the name were beyond redemption. (Char stats and items were lost. Only the name remained.) (actually I cannot recall whether this was from Venus to Pandore, or Venus to Mars to be honest - too long ago.)
The solution they suggested was for me to create a character on Neptune. The GM then logged onto and adjusted the stats so that these were the same as what was lost. No items were restored, but I did not mind too much.
It is a lot of work and not really viable for a large installed base. It would be far easier for them to export the data in the table and import into the titan dB. Also, it is easier to script. Even so, this is still extra work. Their is an existing set of scripts (including UI) for char transfer from nc1/nc2, but we do not know what state these are in.
I expect char tranfer later rather than sooner, because establishing a new Titanium user population has to have a higher priority. ( I've been waiting for years for these +20% populations and I would rather let them concentrate on Titan and its new economy and new players - I can wait a little longer. ... but not for years ;) ) Although its priority ought not to be that low.
(Hey, spot the new demonym above! )
I hope they don't allow transfers, it'll just ruin the competitiveness of the economy again if someone transfers a barterer/researcher/constructor for all the new and old people starting again.
I can't personally put as much time in as some due to working 6 days a week currently and putting in extra hours for a promotion available to me in 6 months time, but i'm just going to enjoy the game for what it is... when I can.
William Antrim
22-09-12, 19:24
I thought gms were capping chars and stuff when they tested titan. To be fair if they just capped a load of toons I would be happy without the points being spent. I don't care about the items and sympathies. I can get all of that back easy. I just want my caps and wocs please. Xp is.not important either. I don't plan to woc any more than I have except one toon.
I hope they don't allow transfers, it'll just ruin the competitiveness of the economy again if someone transfers a barterer/researcher/constructor for all the new and old people starting again.
How could it ruin the economy when the rest of the chars on Titan are already capped [...in a few month time.]?
Are you proposing monthly resets of all characters on Titan? I cannot see this being popular with anybody!
Rgds,z
P.S I've already seen people with rank 50 on Titan.
P.P.S Where is the trolling smiley icon?
How could it ruin the economy when the rest of the chars on Titan are already capped [...in a few month time.]?
Are you proposing monthly resets of all characters on Titan? I cannot see this being popular with anybody!
Rgds,z
P.S I've already seen people with rank 50 on Titan.
P.P.S Where is the trolling smiley icon?
What the hell are you going on about?
Chuck Norris
22-09-12, 22:46
titan got wiped after stress test, there will be nofucking xfers stop asking its trolling at this point, fuck off and go level thank you :)
titan got wiped after stress test, there will be nofucking xfers stop asking its trolling at this point, fuck off and go level thank you :)
If all you can manage to add is Fuck You, then go fuck yourself Chuck. :lol:
What the hell are you going on about?
Do I really have to explain this?
You said it would ruin the economy.
It cannot ruin the econmy because _no_ items nor money could be transferred. Only character stats. If all the existing chars on Titan were capped (as they will by next month), then the playing field is level.
Furthermore, this thread was about fragmentation between the servers. Since everyone is playing on Titan there is no fragmentation. Terra is empty. @GM please would you kindly close this thread as it no longer serves any purpose.
Anyway, I shall leave you all now.
Best of luck and enjoy yourselves.
If all you can manage to add is Fuck You, then go fuck yourself Chuck.
/agreed.
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