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View Full Version : [FIXED] Overcasting PPU Shield with "foreign" PPU Shield possible



nabbl
05-09-12, 22:16
How to reproduce it:




Shoot PPU1s Shield down a bit
PPU2 casts own Shield over the Shields of PPU1.
Shields are now overcasted and cannot be overcasted again bei PPU1.
So PPU1 dies in pain with foreign casts (30% instead of 8X%)

This is versus the originally meant game-mechanic that your own casts are always better than any foreign cast.

Biglines
05-09-12, 22:41
now I can't remember if you're the one that keeps trying to bring this up, or if it was rappler, but there's a number of huge discussion threads about this already. I'd say it's very presumptuous to say that this is "versus the orginally meant game-mechanic", as there's a lot of logic that says that it's a normal mechanic (seeing as you have to damage the shield for overcast to work).

I've never understood why people get upset about it, since it's an easily countered, skillbased mechanic that does not prejudice any player since it works the same for everyone, and does not require any special tricks.

Also, your post contains a fallacy, an overcast shield can always be overcast by your own shield (point 3 is simply wrong), making it extremely easy to counter effectively as long as you pay attention to your shield animations.

The only bug is that in some cases it is done silently, without a clear indication of what has happened, maybe as a middle ground, selfcast shields should have a different icon than foreign cast shields, so the mechanic is clearly visible?

Imho this thread belongs in brainport, as I can understand that people want to change the mechanic, but aside from the silent cast, this isn't a bug imho.


but then again, I'd say the people in support and against it is about 50:50 of the current active playerbase, so it should be an interesting discussion in the brainport.

Drachenpaladin
05-09-12, 23:22
Also, your post contains a fallacy, an overcast shield can always be overcast by your own shield (point 3 is simply wrong), making it extremely easy to counter effectively as long as you pay attention to your shield animations.

IF you are casting the shield to your self. But how about support targets? Those runners, that get "shitbuffed" it was i think, are pretty soon dead meat.

Biglines
05-09-12, 23:27
IF you are casting the shield to your self. But how about support targets? Those runners, that get "shitbuffed" it was i think, are pretty soon dead meat.

non-ppu runners that get overcast get a better shield than they already have, shitbuffing with worse shields has not been possible in years. The only shitbuffing that is still possible is casting a melee booster on a spy etc, and let's face it, that's hardly useful, and only works if the runner didn't have a proper weapon booster yet (so casting melee boosters in p1 on all the clans ur gonna attack might be useful, but not in the middle of a fight).

nabbl
06-09-12, 15:22
now I can't remember if you're the one that keeps trying to bring this up, or if it was rappler, but there's a number of huge discussion threads about this already. I'd say it's very presumptuous to say that this is "versus the orginally meant game-mechanic", as there's a lot of logic that says that it's a normal mechanic (seeing as you have to damage the shield for overcast to work).


It is a bug.
Mechanic should be: Selfcast > Foreigncast (if selfcast shieldresist > foreigncast shieldresist)

IRC LOG (your german should be good enough :-), otherwise give me a call)

<+nabbl> gut jetzt aber ein beispiel
<+nabbl> ich caste mir ein selfshield
<+nabbl> habe 80% resist
<&Zoltan> k
<+nabbl> einer schiesst auf mich und mein schild geht auf 76% runter
<&Zoltan> jo
<+nabbl> jetzt castet mir ein anderer PPU ein schild drauf
<+nabbl> und es wird als "stärker" angesehen
<+nabbl> und ich habe nur noch 30% resist
<&Zoltan> bug
<+nabbl> und kann es nicht mehr wieder mit einem selfcast übercasten
<&Zoltan> bug
<+nabbl> k
<+nabbl> dann ist das richtig im bugreport

Pinoccio
06-09-12, 15:47
you cant overcast it biglines, cause the game think its a new fresh buff...

Biglines
06-09-12, 16:12
It is a bug.
Mechanic should be: Selfcast > Foreigncast (if selfcast shieldresist > foreigncast shieldresist)

IRC LOG (your german should be good enough :-), otherwise give me a call)

<+nabbl> gut jetzt aber ein beispiel
<+nabbl> ich caste mir ein selfshield
<+nabbl> habe 80% resist
<&Zoltan> k
<+nabbl> einer schiesst auf mich und mein schild geht auf 76% runter
<&Zoltan> jo
<+nabbl> jetzt castet mir ein anderer PPU ein schild drauf
<+nabbl> und es wird als "stärker" angesehen
<+nabbl> und ich habe nur noch 30% resist
<&Zoltan> bug
<+nabbl> und kann es nicht mehr wieder mit einem selfcast übercasten
<&Zoltan> bug
<+nabbl> k
<+nabbl> dann ist das richtig im bugreport

ok, if Zoltan thinks so, my post was based on all the other posts about this in the past. Still, even if it's a bug, it's a gameplay mechanic that makes the game a lot more fun for at least a large part of the community (before lg came back, noone ever complained about overcasting). it is a skill based mechanic that is easily countered, but which has pro's and cons that make it a viable alternative for the incredibly boring full anti-buffs (with anti-buffs and no overcasts, a good ppu can stay alive indefinitely and never die, which I still believe is far more of a bug/imbalance). I think your description to Zoltan was completely biased towards describing it as a bug, but let's face it, hardly anyone is unbiased about mechanics, I try very hard to describe it as not a bug, because I think the game would be a lot less fun to play without overcasts (it just becomes boring and repetitive to kill off ppu's with only anti-buffs).


you cant overcast it biglines, cause the game think its a new fresh buff...

i've always been able to, and even if your own cast wasn't powerful enough to overcast it, the first shot of damage is enough to allow you to overcast even then.

nabbl
06-09-12, 16:20
It is because LG said that they are playing exploit-free.

If you use that bug .. it is an exploit und such forbidden. (Nevertheless it makes more or less fun)

Got it?

Mokoi
06-09-12, 16:26
The official agenda was that a stronger buff shall not be replaced by a weaker buff.
The check that evaluates which shield is stronger, the existing one or the one being applied, currently ignores the selfcast bonus.
That is a bug and should be fixed.

If balancing or gameplay requires new or other means to weaken PPUs, other than the designated gameplay elements available (e.g. AntiBuff),
that is a feature proposal to talk about in Brainport, so please continue there.

Addendum:
Players have raised the concern that abusing bugs for an advantage is generally classed as exploiting.
This is true for the most part, but does not cover this specific issue.
To be clear on this: While considered a bug, overcasting is currently not considered an exploit and the use of it will not be punished (somewhat similar to terrain clipping, which clearly is a bug, but not policed). Until we can provide a fix, please accept it the way it is.