View Full Version : GM vs exploiter - need help
Hello guys.
we have a big problem with exploiter in op fights.
We going out the UG and the fight begins.
We kills 4 enemys and than:
The enemy ppu does overcast the once ppu of us.
He use silent antiīs
Silent overcast/overcast
and kill our ppu in quickly time.
in the fair fight there would be lose with 4 ppus, if there wouldnt exploit.
the hardest overcast and silence anti exploit-user are the ppuīs of soad.
The leader with soad and ex-GM isnt interested on fair fights. he want only WIN.
Can anyone Gm help there?
Thank you, Rappler/Sangree
P.S: thanks Trivaldi for helped with the problem of the Pistol shotgun Part 1. nice work ;-)
ratakresch
24-05-12, 14:27
Nice post.... But to get it clearly. These are no exploits. It's simple game mechanic. And Olive only uses silent anti. So stop whining and stop clipping like a dog around a tree.
me dont clipped, its a lie. netcode is not my problem cant help u.
The gm shoud decide of the overcast be allowed. not u.
MadMeleeFreak
24-05-12, 14:36
What do you mean by overcast? As far as I know overcasting higher shields/heals with lower ones is not possible anymore. As far as the silent casts go: Abusing the bug that leads to casting animations not being shown is indeed an exploit and not a game mechanic as it is a bug.
Generally using antiheals and antishields to debuff PPU's in order to kill them is common strategy, which is allowed. That's the purpose of antispells. The PPU was never meant as an unkillable mobile medicare station.
Ryan Steiner
24-05-12, 14:39
. These are no exploits. It's simple game mechanic. And Olive only uses silent anti. .
Silent casts arenīt an exploit ?
Of course they are. Need an official statement ? here it is:
http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?p=2005591#post2005591
PS: namecalling is forbidden, so you better edit your starting post, Rappler.
Silent casts arenīt an exploit ?
Of course they are. Need an official statement ? here it is:
http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?p=2005591#post2005591
PS: namecalling is forbidden, so you better edit your starting post, Rappler.
okay names deleted.
After talking to him for a while on IRC, what apparently happened is that people were casting silent overcasts, silent anti's and silent rezzes. Those are of course exploits, as can be seen in the quoted forum post.
Overcasts in themselves (casting a higher foreign shield over a degraded self-cast shield) is possible in the game, and throughout very lengthy discussions on both here and ingame, is not considered an exploit, or at least was never declared an exploit, as the old "shit buffing" was removed.
Like the other 6 page long post about overcasting a few months ago, no GM or KK even came close to calling it an exploit (otherwise the thread would have been closed for that).
Dribble Joy
24-05-12, 15:07
Overcasting only works if the new shield is better than the old one, or the new one is self-cast. So you can't be 'n00b buffed' any more.
MadMeleeFreak
24-05-12, 15:16
Ok so the overcast is not a problem here as the PPU could simply recast his self-casts. The remaining problem are silent casts then and those are exploits. So I agree with sangree that action by the GMs is indeed needed.
Silent spell casting is an exploit (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=134977) and as such is not up for discussion. If you have evidence regarding this exploit and those abusing it please send this to exploits@neocron.com (@neocron.de if you have problems with .com) and those involved will be dealt with.
Here on in, no more discussion of silent-casting.
Silent spell casting is an exploit (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=134977) and as such is not up for discussion. If you have evidence regarding this exploit and those abusing it please send this to exploits@neocron.com (@neocron.de if you have probelms with .com) and those involved will be dealt with.
Here on in, no more discussion of silent-casting.
We will try and get back to you with an official stance on overcasting. Please be patient.
ok thank you very much :-)
this thread is created for interesting what think about other runner from that.
its would be great the gms can discuss from the overcast-bug(exploit)
u can close that if u want.
LG Rappler/sangree :-*
Silent spell casting is an exploit (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=134977) and as such is not up for discussion. If you have evidence regarding this exploit and those abusing it please send this to exploits@neocron.com (@neocron.de if you have problems with .com) and those involved will be dealt with.
Here on in, no more discussion of silent-casting.
I'm curious as to what you GM's would consider credible evidence of this exploit? Everyone who's ever played this game has come across this type of situation where people are cheating or exploiting, and like Sangree here, it has been directly reported to the GM's. The response from the GM's is always the same, send us some evidence. So I would like to know exactly what type of evidence is required before something will be done? Do you want screenshots? (I dont know how you screenshot a silent cast) Do you want other eyewitness testimony? Do you want some kind of video evidence? What if you can't run fraps smoothly at op fights or you don't have it at all? Even then, the "evidence" may not be apparent while the exploit is still happening.
I only say all of this because this stuff has been going on for literally years now with very little ever getting done about it. It's what ruins the game for most everyone.
ratakresch
24-05-12, 17:41
this sounds sooo fishy to me.
There are so much things player could do in this game. for example:
- use a silent hunter + press tab to see your hud
- overcast shields
- silent spell casting
- switch ionic pistol or woclauncher for faster shooting
- run around UG's or buildings for almost impossible to aim
- use the wellknowen droner bug for xxxx ammo
- get yourself heal and shields in hacknet and use them outside of hacknet
- use both heal tools for max heal
- etc
So calling silent spell casting and some others things of this list exploits and the other ones non exploits is crap!!!!!
some of them you can see some of them not! So why abandon some of them and the others not.....
You will never know for example your enemys dont use sh + tab or xxx ammo on a drone against you. but you should not use silent antis????? its impossible so live with it.
For me this makes it only more fun. You have to be 100% awake in a fight.
Ryan Steiner
24-05-12, 17:45
*snip*
You got a clear statement that silent spell casting is an exploit in this thread :
http://forum.neocron.com/showpost.php?p=2184254&postcount=10
Why are you still arguing ?
Deal with it !
MadMeleeFreak
24-05-12, 17:56
You got a clear statement that silent spell casting is an exploit in this thread :
http://forum.neocron.com/showpost.php?p=2184254&postcount=10
Why are you still arguing ?
Deal with it !
Because that's what exploit abusers and cheaters allways do everywhere: They rationalize their deeds to prevent having to accept that they are violating rules knowingly and will sooner or later be held responsible for it. What they try to do is picture themselves as the victim of unfair rules.
And saying that using one exploit is justified because you can never know if your enemies are using other exploits is the most stupid thing I've heard in years.
ratakresch
24-05-12, 17:57
are you an active opfighter ryan???
everybody i know says that this is more fun with all that stuff.
and thats not what i said. i'm not posing as a victim here. I only say that all these things are happening all the time. and for me and other people some of these things making the game even more fun. you have to be sharp all the time. so the real meaning behind me talking against all of you is that its so damn fishy to forbidd one or two things of this list and the rest not. and even if you forbidd all things you could never controll it. so why not let all these things happen. Or else fix the damn game completly.... havent happened the past 10 years.... will never happen!
Dark-Destroy
24-05-12, 18:32
@ratakresch:
I think ur attitude sucks! This is teh attitude, because a lot of people leave nc:
exploits, cheats, unfair gameplay etc.
The fights would be more fun, if we could come to an agreement. The fights with all this overcasting, silent-XY and so on, too short, too boring and too modest.
I would like to have an honest game in which everyone has his chances to win. I want to have a long good fight. In the end I would like to say to my opponents: "Good and fair fight"
It's not a problem if a clan has better players or more players!
so, okay: If you could not play otherwise, then continue this lame fighting. LG has discussed it in our personal forum and reached the settlement, that exploits forbidden for all members => as much as its possible (clipping is hard to avoid).
For me as honest player I will report now every exploit I will see to KK and hope, that the GMs support this as good as possible.
Greetz
Dark-Destroy
MadMeleeFreak
24-05-12, 18:34
are you an active opfighter ryan???
Cool story dude. Now you're trying to play the "You're a noob anyways" card? So fucking predictable.
everybody i know says that this is more fun with all that stuff.
Then you obviously hang out with the wrong people.
so the real meaning behind me talking against all of you is that its so damn fishy to forbidd one or two things of this list and the rest not.
Ok let's see the list then:
- use a silent hunter + press tab to see your hud
Though I'm not sure how much of an advantage it is to see the hud while zoomed in the SH that still is abusing a bug and as such forbidden.
- overcast shields
As has been said: That is working as intended by the devs so long the casts aren't silent, thus the victim has a chance to react accordingly by recasting his own shields again.
And if we're honest for a second here: The only reason it is being used against PPU's is that it is impossible to tell wether the selfcast or foreign cast shields are active in a fight situation. So it is used to gain an unfair advantage and makes it fun only for those parties abusing that weakness of the system.
- silent spell casting
It's an exploit. Again abusing it only is fun for those that abuse it to gain a similar unfair advantage as above, namely to strip the victim of the possibility to see that an anti will hit him soon, so he can start the recast of his shields early enough to be shielded again as soon as the anti has finished casting.
It can be proven using fraps. Or calling a GM online to see for himself.
- switch ionic pistol or woclauncher for faster shooting
Is an exploit aswell and forbidden.
It can be proven using fraps. Or calling a GM online to see for himself.
- run around UG's or buildings for almost impossible to aim
Not sure if it officially is an exploit yet. But excessivly abusing it should be treated as such.
Also can be proven using Fraps vids.
And I do not see what's the fun in cowardly dodging damage by running circles around buildings.
- use the wellknowen droner bug for xxxx ammo
Can be proven aswell using fraps and thus punished.
- get yourself heal and shields in hacknet and use them outside of hacknet
Is an exploit aswell. Yet I'm not sure if it makes sense at all to abuse it.
- use both heal tools for max heal
As far as I know that's also working as intended and thus not an exploit.
See the thing is: It's not you or me who decides what's an exploit it's KK and their GM team. So how about you deal with that instead of trying to justify exploit abuse.
ratakresch
24-05-12, 18:41
its ok... come on. i give up. all of you know everything better. you are right i am wrong....
ironic
I'm curious as to what you GM's would consider credible evidence of this exploit? Everyone who's ever played this game has come across this type of situation where people are cheating or exploiting, and like Sangree here, it has been directly reported to the GM's. The response from the GM's is always the same, send us some evidence. So I would like to know exactly what type of evidence is required before something will be done? Do you want screenshots? (I dont know how you screenshot a silent cast) Do you want other eyewitness testimony? Do you want some kind of video evidence? What if you can't run fraps smoothly at op fights or you don't have it at all? Even then, the "evidence" may not be apparent while the exploit is still happening.
I only say all of this because this stuff has been going on for literally years now with very little ever getting done about it. It's what ruins the game for most everyone.
i think video with fraps is the best. i will fraps that and load on @ youtube. than i will post the link to gm.
ratakresch
24-05-12, 18:45
Point is:
Why not allow everything on this list for example. Every fight will be under the same conditions for everybody.
If we forbidd some things and one uses silent spell casting and the others clipp to much both send fraps videos in and both will get banned. and then there will be no more players to play. ^^
Point is, the gms decide what is an exploit and what is not. Don't like it? Leave.
ratakresch
24-05-12, 18:57
Point is, and I'm sorry for what i am about to say, the GM's don't know shit about this game....
Point is:
Why not allow everything on this list for example. Every fight will be under the same conditions for everybody.
If we forbidd some things and one uses silent spell casting and the others clipp to much both send fraps videos in and both will get banned. and then there will be no more players to play. ^^
So when you say it is both cheating again fairly?
clipping at the high ping can hardly be judged yet obs happens to deliberate. , the netcode is bugged so that none of what.
You can therefore ensure a 100% sure, not to use silence but not 100% sure not to accidentally clipped.
Point is, the gms decide what is an exploit and what is not. Don't like it? Leave.
thats right! ;)
@ratakresh, than leave!
u know a shit of this game if u think silent overcast get allowed.
thats the point!!
ratakresch
24-05-12, 19:03
in propper english please
I didn't say that. You can't judge something like this. So to make it fair use everything the game allowes. This way its fair.
And it has nothing to do with cheating.....
See this video for answers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btpagXgX6LI)
in propper english please
I didn't say that. You can't judge something like this. So to make it fair use everything the game allowes. This is way its fair.
And it has nothing to do with cheating.....
See this video for answers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btpagXgX6LI)
omg the game allowed duping... its exploit
and silence overcast.. its exploit
also this game alowed edit files and get dmg with your apo... its hack
i think the right word is CHEATER <<< only word for that.
not more, thank you.
btw, gms please check this apu, he kills 2 op fight clans with his apu.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhR8FdZAoHQ
388 DMG of full buffed (holy protection and heat) Tank nice Fire Apoc.
there cheater must be banned.
MadMeleeFreak
24-05-12, 19:13
If we forbidd some things and one uses silent spell casting and the others clipp to much both send fraps videos in and both will get banned. and then there will be no more players to play. ^^
This is stupid aswell. For one I think a lot of people agree with me if I say that both players would not be missed. And more importantly I do not think that it would lead to no one playing anymore. The contrary would be the effect: If GM's would start to be more strict and ban faster for every banned idiot two or three people come back if word get's around that finally exploiters and cheaters get punsihed.
ratakresch
24-05-12, 19:13
So if somebody has more atl and agl and can jump the roofs in via 3 and an other person couldn't do it we should bann the first person on the roof, because not everybody knows thats possible and is able to do it.....
So if somebody has more atl and agl and can jump the roofs in via 3 and an other person couldn't do it we should bann the first person on the roof, because not everybody knows thats possible and is able to do it.....
To jump high, or in the op fight to kill a PPU quickly with overcast is a big difference.
Now it will be silly.
ratakresch
24-05-12, 19:26
Why? its the same. More skill - know how to jump up there - do it
Overcast is the same: More skill - able to do it - know that it works ^^
Ladies, really? Simmer down. Its just a game :P
Why? its the same. More skill - know how to jump up there - do it
Overcast is the same: More skill - able to do it - know that it works ^^
no commentar :D
You dont like it in the game,plz dont cry,put youre le in and go home.
hahahaha :D
firstly, feel free to insult the support team all you like - but I suggest you dont do it here.
secondly, we are very well aware of many issues and it hurts us at least as much as you that we cannot provide you with a quick solution. we will continue to work on these and other issues as swiftly as possible under the given circumstances.
sorry guys.
but this thread is going nowhere. these are problems that cant be solved by open discussion in the forums. these are problems that require a proper fix. period.
and also, please keep in mind that the rule about exploit discussion has not changed arround here. we dont want nor need that on the forums, because as I just said, it does not help in any way.
thread closed.
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