Discussion of potential NC:R financing options

[Dribble Joy]

This has been touched on briefly in the various threads regarding the future of NC (NC: Reloaded and any subsequent NC3), but I feel it's a significant enough subject that a deeper look at how the upcoming project would/could/should be financed is warranted. I hope that getting an idea of what the community wants is paramount in KK's (Nukklear's?) plans, so we need to find out what we want.

As mentioned elsewhere, the likely option (at least for NC:R) is a 'freemium' model, whereby you have a free to play aspect with a cash-shop, alongside a regular subscription model.

Balancing these two playstyles can be a minefield. You essentially have two 'communities' - those on the F2P side, and those with the subscriptions.
Give the F2P side too much and the subscriptions collapse, hold everything for the subscribers and the casual players will leave in droves.

What and why is the subject of this thread.

Let us also bear in mind the different types of players and what they bring to the community and the game. Obviously there are many types, but we can break them down into a few general types:

Hardcore players:

These are people that invest considerable numbers of hours of playtime and often form a backbone for the clans and community as a whole.

Casual players:

These people spend less time ingame than those above (due to a multitude of reasons) but aren't necessarily any less devoted to it. They also out-number the hardcore players considerably.

Within both of these groups we also have another two types:

People with money to burn:

Some people do have more to spend on their hobby, and they are quite willing to do so.

People with less to spend:

Not everyone can or is willing to spend a vast amount on the game. Again, this group probably out-numbers the one above.

Where is the balance? Who do we appeal to most? How do we encourage some to move from one group to another and is that a good thing to begin with? (People want to play an MMO in order to play a game with others, lower populations means other groups are less interested).

[Dribble Joy]

My personal views as to how I feel NC might operate:

All content available to all players regardless of payment type:

Restricting content to either the cash-shop and/or subscribers will only alienate the rest. Creating 'second class' players does not help the game as I see it. Locking out content only breeds resentment and demotivates people from playing.

Clearly of course, there should be benefits for paying, otherwise the game has no income and then there is no game to play at all.
What those benefits include is a tricky subject, they can easily break the enjoyment of the game for other players.

Breaking it down into the different potential payment methods, here's what I think could work:

Cash-shop:

Higher xp gain:
A temporary multiplier (an hour, a day or longer depending on how much is paid) to the amount of xp gained though PvM and missions.

Cheaper ingame items:
Again a temporary duration where the cost of shop-bought items is reduced by a certain percentage.
This would be particularly relevant to 'visual' items (most clothing, accessories, etc.), which would be very expensive otherwise.

Lower processor duration:
Time of constructing/researching/etc. reduced. Possibly also SI gain from death and GRing.

Extra character slot(s):
One off payment(s) to increase the number of character slots on a given server. F2P players might start with one or two.
Obviously with F2P accounts, this could be redundant without a restriction on the number of accounts per player.

Subscriptions:

Permanent xp gain bonus:
Or rather, the 'normal' gain, F2P players getting less.

Cheaper ingame items:
See above.

Lower processor duration:
See above.

Extra character slots:
Again, a subscriber might have more slots available than a non-subscriber.

Cash-shop open to subscribers:
All the options available in the cash-shop available to subscribers on top of the regular benefits of subscribing. Extra characters slots, cheaper items, etc.

Things to avoid:

Cash for ingame money:
This could easily break the game economy. Ingame money might quickly become worthless, annoying those who have paid for it and those who have earned it through regular means.

Cash for items:
Again, this could seriously damage the game world, especially if combined with the above.
Where it might work is with non-endgame items (such as leveling weapons/implants) and the visual equipment.

Lower PvP performance:
Everyone should be on the same playing field.

[MadMeleeFreak]

As long as they keep their hands off anything that directly influences combat relevant stats (which includes weapons and armor) they can do as they please regarding the shop as I'll use the subscription anyways.

But that's my personal opinion. Taking a more objective approach I still believe P2W is a bad idea if you aim at running for more than one or two years. So still hands off that tempting but faulty approach at F2P shops. We've been discussing the potential itemshop and how to implement it in the german section for a while already. Pretty much the consesus among those that don't outright say "NO F2P AT ALL, EVER" was, that the focus should be on avatar customization, tradeskill related boosts and experience boosters. Some would also be fine with droprate boosts and the like.

Also a lot of people agreed that it all should be ingame. Meaning outside the game you only trade real money for an additional ingame currency (I called it "Nukkleons") the actual boosts then are bought ingame at vendors as all the normal stuff.

For the parallel subscription I'd follow the road many others have taken: Subscribers get additional goodies like acces to server-wide chat-channels. Reduced fee on clan-creation and the like. Alongside this a certain amount of Nukkleons per month should be included in the subscription aswell.

I think the most important thing, and thus I repeat it: When it comes to actual combat there ought to be no difference between a subscriber, a paying F2P player and a non-paying F2P player. If you give players the ability to buy combat strength for money you automatically pretty much force everyone wanting to compete to pay as much as the one who pays the most. Which will drive a lot of people away from the game. <- VERY BAD IDEA. Don't do it.

[aKe`cj]

I very much favour a freemium model without an item shop, but instead with an optional subscription.

premium treats not available on free accounts:


multiple appartments
furniture does not work in starter apps
built-in makro feature for res and cst :angel:
built-in mobile citycom :angel:
safeslot (makes hunting freebie users more fun :D)
normal sized gogo (tiny gogo for free accounts)


and more of the like... the idea is to make life uncomfortable without a subscription if you do play regularly and keep the game free and mostly uncrippled if you are playing on a very casual level or starting out.

It wont take long for people to collect enough items to want additional storage, so thats the lure into a premium account - and then there must be enough convenience features that make stepping back down to a free account an unpleasent move :)


that said... I f***ing hate item shops - it's a rather stupid concept that makes me feel like a cashcow instead of a welcome customer & part of the community.

yes.. that had to be big and bold :p

[Biglines]

to me the cashshop should be considered as a way to buy one-time items, such as char slots, high level le's, full LoM's, special appartments (clan, merchant and public appartments) etc etc, things that make a game more enjoyable for busy people, so mostly convenience items. Also I have no problem with a cashshop with purely cosmetic items. If you wanna be a peacock, you have this option.

[aKe`cj]

to me the cashshop should be considered as a way to buy one-time items, such as char slots, high level le's, full LoM's, special appartments (clan, merchant and public appartments) etc etc, things that make a game more enjoyable for busy people, so mostly convenience items. Also I have no problem with a cashshop with purely cosmetic items. If you wanna be a peacock, you have this option.

ah well... the thing is, that you'll have a hard time keeping up a decent cashflow with this types of items (how often will you buy a charslot?) - so there will always be the incentive for the publisher to introduce items people a) feel the urge to buy and b) do so on a more frequent level ... which will make the game less appealing and drive away people which will further reduce cashflow and push the publisher to introduce... you get the idea.

For item shops to work well, you need a really, really large playerbase.

[Biglines]

ah well... the thing is, that you'll have a hard time keeping up a decent cashflow with this types of items (how often will you buy a charslot?) - so there will always be the incentive for the publisher to introduce items people a) feel the urge to buy and b) do so on a more frequent level ... which will make the game less appealing and drive away people which will further reduce cashflow and push the publisher to introduce... you get the idea.

For item shops to work well, you need a really, really large playerbase.
Ah, my post wasn't self contained, I have always advocated a freemium model, with the cashshop as a side shop for getting one-time things.

[MadMeleeFreak]

Actually I'd also clearly favor aKe's Idea. As likely will most in here as we're all used to playing with a sub. The question is: Will the free basic gameplay encourage enough people to even start playing and stay long enough to want to subscribe?

If that can be answered with a yes, the freemium model coupled with maybe a shop as layed out by biglines should be the way to go.

[Dribble Joy]

convenience
I think this is probably the best way to go about a cash shop. Rather than restrictions, it's short-cuts.

I think 'upgrades' is also an interesting idea.
F2P players (and possibly subscribers too) could pay to allow them to have more apartments, more cabinets in their apts, more gogu space, etc.

Though, as mentioned, one-off purchases don't help the cash-flow of the business without a high turn-over of new players. Temporary benefits are probably best for the moment.

[Biglines]

agreed, the main money cow should always be subscriptions, though I think the average neocron player is actually more likely to invest in convenience/roleplay items from a cashshop, than the average f2p player would be.

[Apocalypsox]

NC has a lot of things that could very well be sold in a cash shop, and I'm starting to feel like its the best option for NC. That and then a way to get publicity and get people back into the game, along with bring in new faces. I still say a release on Steam :lol:

It worked for Fallen Earth, but they weren't ready for the shockload of people.

[MadMeleeFreak]

I agree to the non-exclusive Steam release. Should be seriously considered. It will get the game on the radar of several million of potential players, makes getting into the game and paying in the cashshop super easy for people that already have steam, like it and are used to it. But you still should stick to the in-browser publishing idea aswell. Because at the moment it still is so that for each gamer that likes steam there is at least one steam hater aswell.

[Biglines]

ye, at the moment people are really getting into steam f2p. Though it would need to have a downloadable client i think (can still use all proprietary login etc, but u need to be able to download something from steam I think).

[Kamuix99]

I don't consider myself as a hardcore Player but rather casual player. In most all MMOs I've played so far I rarely joined clans and neither I was that much into PVP. I enjoy a good atmosphere along with dynamic combat and most important complex game mechanic with crafting. With that in mind, I always paid subscriptions without thinking twice, as I'm fully convinced for a good product people will give good money.

In my point of view, the question has to be formulated a bit different. Not "casual players with money to burn" and "Casual player with less to spend". Instead you can say "traditional/classic players with an connection and appreciation to the game and business" and "modern MMO gypsies who don't give a damn bout whatsoever and take anything as long it's free".


So as to a Freemium model, here's my suggestion for subscription models. Different subscription level players Premium/F2P are marked with different colors. Premium Players get an ingame T-Shirt displaying "Proud Premium Player - I don't trade with freeloader scum!" Do that, and I have no further obligations bout Freemium :D

[MadMeleeFreak]

ye, at the moment people are really getting into steam f2p. Though it would need to have a downloadable client i think (can still use all proprietary login etc, but u need to be able to download something from steam I think).
I think so too. But as Kirk and the Nukklear Site stated: They are planning to do browser AND client. So that's not the problem. The question is: how much does valve want from any money made through steam and are those terms acceptable?

[CMaster]

The concern with paying for "convenience" is that well, it encourages the devs to start adding in inconvenience that you can pay to get around.

I have to say that an optional-sub system sounds like a good plan. I'd like to add that I think the sub should be fairly cheap (€5 to a max of €10 maybe) to make as many people as possible take it up. Perhaps there could also be a "buy X hours" of premium for those who don't play as often but still want to play. And sure, sell extra character slots etc. I'm always concerned that selling regular items like boosters tends to encourage the game to be balanced around boosted play (although in principle, it acts as a good levelling device between cash rich/time poor and time rich/cash poor players).

Of course, if KK really want to make money from this, they'll always get the most from a optional subscription + cash shop that sells items that do give a small advantage.

[Apocalypsox]

Cash shop Kamis? :lol:

[Strife]

I thought something along the lines of; 20 un-id'd tech parts, for $5 would be neat.

[MadMeleeFreak]

I thought something along the lines of; 20 un-id'd tech parts, for $5 would be neat.

Hmm. Not sure if people here would like it.

I wouldn't mind. Assuming droprates stay as they are now I'd definetly rather take my clan out to the canyon or the warbot hills and have some fun hunting there for an hour or two and know that we'd get the parts that way just as good.

But for people that either don't like PvE or don't have the time to hunt for parts it surely would be a good thing to be able to buy the parts in order to keep up equipment wise.

But offering un-id'd tech parts also is pretty much the limit as far as the sale of combat related items may go. I neither want to see rare weapons, armors or implants sold in the shop nor any new form of boost that influences any combat related stat.

[Apocalypsox]

I kind of feel like un-id'd techs might be a bit far. five techs is 500k, enough to sell and get pretty much anything else you'd like. buying credits isn't that ideal in my opinion.

[Strife]

I kind of feel like un-id'd techs might be a bit far. five techs is 500k, enough to sell and get pretty much anything else you'd like. buying credits isn't that ideal in my opinion.It'd be dependent on the economy, prices have doubled since I've played. Could always make them untrade-able till ID'd also.

[Brammers]

One thing that BP did was add time-sinks. Like for example taking 20 mins to swap a item on your ship (I may be wrong on the time, but it was a stupid amount of time)

One of the money making methods in NC currently is TL150 res missions, so if research time was reduced for that, it would start causing issues with the economy. Of course the solution would be to make the res time the same for these missions.

However since DJ has given me 100's of tech to res in the past, I think a quicker research time on rares would be most welcomed. :D

[Apocalypsox]

I don't have as much of a problem with the research time one, as its not quite like "Buying" money. You still have to do something in the game to gain that money while you have that boost.