View Full Version : Neocron OP Fight Video
This is a video a transsexual friend of mine made from our last OP Fight.
I post it, because this forum is too hetero for him.
enjoy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhR8FdZAoHQ
Ghostface_Speak
18-10-11, 16:41
hope there is a lot of male to male combat in this one
Powerpunsh
18-10-11, 17:41
Please check your damagelog
Fore sure and just the info. Hes a WoC APU and can get his Fireapoc to about 1000 spelldmg which deals around 500dmg pure dmg on ur character due to its given efficiency (around 50%).
500dmg - shields - armor - skills. The result looks fine.
Thanks for your attention
Dr. Watson aka Powerpunsh. :angel:
well, he's been damage hacking for ages, dunno if he was in the video, but damage logs show him damage hacking almost every time he comes out.
That is some pretty blatant hacking, its pretty normal in neocron now. Why he didnt just go the whole hog and do the two shot kill FA thing like most sandwich APUs tend to do is beyond me. Its not like he would of gotten banned. Its not like there are GMs around.
Powerpunsh, stfu: beyond taking a million drugs as a "set up" you obviously dont know anything about this game.
Its hilarious to see the dev tanks running around deving people who are a good 20-30 feet away and never mind that its the HC tanks who are outrunning spies, ppus...everyone, with a weapon out. Thats really common in NC now. Fight some of the SOAD tanks and they will cleanly outrun a quad with their HC out.
This is neocron now folks. Pretty much anyone who if they went to google would get directed to google.de is using sandwiches.
ratakresch
18-10-11, 18:10
hahahah
powerpunsh noob!!!!!
round about 500 raw dmg is max ^^
learn some shit about that game
William Antrim
18-10-11, 21:29
Posting about cheating in Neocron is like saying it rained somewhere in the world today.
Ghostface_Speak
18-10-11, 23:06
Fight some of the Immune tanks and they will cleanly outrun a quad with their HC out.
fixed.if you ask em why,they tell you the usual "1xx atl base" story
the difference is that immune tanks actually fraps their fights and setups :p (there's a reason why NO soad people who get accused of cheating fraps themselves...)
but close this thread already... there's no point, everyone thinks they know who hacks, and it's always the other guy, so no point until things can be proven.
Thread closed, this ain't going anywhere! *waits*
He gets hit 4 times at one point and lost about 400hp.
Later in the video it looked like he lost 400hp in 1 hit, but it was the damage from the first hit registering late as he was hit by a second hit. meaning about 200 damage per FA.
I wont say he doesn't use sandwich's ever, but it doesn't look like he is in this video.
Can we have some better music in this video? :D
Drachenpaladin
19-10-11, 03:17
ibtl...
That first big chunk of damage at the start of the video is an obvious fire apoc from an obvious sandwich soad apu. The only other weapon which would even have a chance of doing that kind of damage is a silent hunter or an ionic pistol.
No one uses Silent Hunter.
Ionic pistol I didnt see in the video but doesnt mean there wasnt one there, always shooting him from off screen everytime the apu also hit him, exactly at the same time every time, all the time.
Whats even better is to see at what distances these tanks are landing dev shots on. That grey no PA tank has basically no shame. He'll hit you on the roof of the op from pretty much where the UG is.
Also look at the absolute torrent of CS shots coming from a tank on the opposite side of the opp. That is more accurate than dissy, healing light, etc. dissy will miss at least 25% of its shots on an even slightly open crosshair almost 80% of the time. I wonder what that CS tanks crosshair looks like....actually I have a pretty good idea.
Anyways, its not like any of this is going to amount to anything. There are no GMs and pretty much all of the GMs we've ever had have been seriously incompetent. The tradeskillers they always choose to be GMs think a monk running around with an ionic cannon is normal and a damage sandwiching spy is ok as long as he says "but I have 330rc lololol111!1"
No one uses Silent Hunter.
have you played lately? cuz I see close combat sh users quite often :p (usually terrarists or soad though, although it's not that hard if you put the sensitivity of the mouse up)
the difference is that immune tanks actually fraps their fights and setups :p (there's a reason why NO soad people who get accused of cheating fraps themselves)
lol biglines ur a good guy !!! but thats a LIE.... i only see fraps vids from PPU !! but from no other one
and see if I want IMMEDIATELY ScreenShoots was never anything but when mister willy in the ass what did he get it from us and why not with the AK freq or Agil / Atl screens with chatlog? And that's a fact!
and i know different things from invinci !! when i see him i post him some screen ;)
no idea what ur saying. I haven't played for ages, but back then, every time master matthew or penas was accused, a video would go up on xanu's youtube of thta same moment... (including the visible chatlog). We just stopped giving soad videos when the same people that kept posting videos, still kept getting accused.
But I guess you're talking about that photoshopped screenshot of invinci supposedly doing thousands of damage on an apu... that was such an obvious photoshop (it even showed that in the fileinfo), it was ridiculous... (plus I saw the fraps of that same moment, showing nothing ofc)
I never get accused of cheating though... which really hurts my ego :(
no idea what ur saying. I haven't played for ages, but back then, every time master matthew or penas was accused, a video would go up on xanu's youtube of thta same moment... (including the visible chatlog). We just stopped giving soad videos when the same people that kept posting videos, still kept getting accused.
But I guess you're talking about that photoshopped screenshot of invinci supposedly doing thousands of damage on an apu... that was such an obvious photoshop (it even showed that in the fileinfo), it was ridiculous... (plus I saw the fraps of that same moment, showing nothing ofc)
I never get accused of cheating though... which really hurts my ego :(
You do know why that is though, right. :)
Soad got rid of that APU, but that guy is still in their clan with his tank.
It's pretty funny how people are saying fraps doesn't prove anything.
Because to me, it does.
Edit: Anyone ever tried Playclaw with NC?
Powerpunsh
19-10-11, 23:03
@ Ratakresh
1. Dont call me a noob if u dont know me
2. I can tell you out of my experience that hes not dmg hacking. I did alot tests on my tank as i came back for 1 1/2 months to find out a new max setup for him.
Here a little extract out of my documents.
"Fire Apoc 886/411,931"
First number: The given dmg @ spellinfo
Second number: The given dmg @ damagelog on headzone
btw: I havnt seen just in one scene that the Spy is getting any red shield so maybe it was alrdy shot down? If resis are low shields loose their "condition" much faster. If he took like 3 Fireapocs + healing up before he started frapsing or showing us this part, the fourth fire apoc is doin way more dmg then the first. Shields loose condition and thats nothing new. That why u can recast them after some shots/casts...
But ye, maybe you are right im a noob. Sorry for being noobish and my shittalk you could feel in your way. o_O
ratakresch
20-10-11, 12:15
So you see. Thats what i told you.
1. The dmg in the spellinfo is worth nothing in this game. you should allready know that.
2. your second number 411.xx from the dmg log is the original raw dmg that spell is doing at the head hitzone. (i said its maxed at about 500)
assuming that he hits with 411 dmg the head with resist from example only 60% resist fire + heat buff + shield, he will do round about 164 dmg. but remember we are talking about apus... so there is psi resist too. i know for sure that peter lustig has it, which more likely let us guess,gives him round about 70% resist in fire.
So test it yourself: Take an Apu give him 236 Psi Use, 200 APU and 200 Focussing. He will do a raw dmg from about 450 dmg to the head, which results in a total dmg about 135 to the head. thats what you got!!!
and dont come now and say ohhh he skilled everything in APU.... the result is the same.
even without the protector the spy has like 60% fire resist, which will never allow any apu to do more dmg then about 190 to the head.
ohhhh and btw... look the video again. the apu never hits the head ^^ only body and feet.
it still stand...learn some shit about the game
psi resist is only resist against stacks, not spells, a fire apoc does pure fire damage ;)
the maximum amount of damage on my semi-damage-capped (as in, impossible to get more damage except with drugs and/or woc3 pa) on a bad fire-resist spy has been around 250-300 damage, and this is standing against the person, with fully closed recticle (which can only happen that close, at a distance the recticle doesn't close completely and does way less damage). In any real fight, it is impossible to get above 200 damage per shot due to moving, aim, recticle and distance from the player
what surprises me in that video is the amount of damage that apu resists... even the resist-skilled apu's go down to that much damage...
as a sidenote, one of the soad captains already admitted that those apu's are hacking, and that they bring them out because other clans cheat (so, every time soad gets beaten). "we bring cheaters because you all cheat!", most stupid logic in the history of nerd-rage.
ratakresch
20-10-11, 12:35
sry to correct you biglines, but psi resist is working fine against alls psi spells. ;) i tested it 5 minutes ago. so my last post is with accurate stats from my woc 3 apu and spy.
oh i know soad does that. even the apu player told me he cheat.
i will only show the players who dont know so much about the game what is possible and what not. and how to read this stuff a little bit.
sry to correct you biglines, but psi resist is working fine against alls psi spells. ;) i tested it 5 minutes ago. so my last post is with accurate stats from my woc 3 apu and spy.
oh i know soad does that. even the apu player told me he cheat.
i will only show the players who dont know so much about the game what is possible and what not. and how to read this stuff a little bit.
how did you test that then? because all the tests ive seen and done indicate otherwise
to be honest I'm just waiting for the day an anticheat patch comes (if ever), and on that day, immune will be fighting as usual, and all of a sudden half of the current population will have "computer problems", or can't "get used" to the new patch.
ratakresch
20-10-11, 12:44
tripple log with apu, ppu, spy, shooting my spy with and without psi resist, seeing the dmg done in game and in the dmg log.... thats how dmg test work aren't they? ^^
tripple log with apu, ppu, spy, shooting my spy with and without psi resist, seeing the dmg done in game and in the dmg log.... thats how dmg test work aren't they? ^^
uhm, seeing as the damage logs don't take resists into account, that's odd.. also, did you just lom out the psi resist? just for testing?
ratakresch
20-10-11, 14:44
well they right log counts the dmg. and gives you the % of resist. so if i take an apoc and look ingame how much hlt i lost and match it with the dmg log, i say the log is pretty accurate.
Local Player:Damage() - Damage processing statistics!
Damage: 447.366 Target Feuer HitZone 0 - Part 0
Damage: 344.768 (Reduction: 102.598 - 22.934 Percentage) - Damage caused by PSI
Damage: 241.337 (Reduction: 206.029 - 46.054 Percentage) - Damage reduced by shield
Damage: 192.952 (Reduction: 254.414 - 56.869 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
Damage: 136.090 (Reduction: 311.276 - 69.580 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
Results of this target: Damage 136.090 (Reduction: 311.276 - 69.580 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.800!
see thats my log with full spec at psi resist.
do u have the log for without? (just interested to see, might be worth investing a few points in psi resist on my apu)
ratakresch
20-10-11, 15:33
no sry, i deleted the log, but i give you the dmg log of a devo shot. the rest you can calculate yourself. on my spy with 75 points psi resist its about 10% more fire resist.
see devo shot fire dmg. the fire resist is only at 60%.
Local Player:Damage() - Damage processing statistics!
Damage: 182.249 Target Feuer HitZone 0 - Part 0
Damage: 127.574 (Reduction: 54.675 - 30.000 Percentage) - Damage reduced by shield
Damage: 101.997 (Reduction: 80.252 - 44.034 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
Damage: 71.939 (Reduction: 110.310 - 60.527 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
Results of this target: Damage 71.939 (Reduction: 110.310 - 60.527 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.800!
Powerpunsh
20-10-11, 15:58
60% fire resis without protector shield on a spy? Please send me your setup. :)
Unless Peter lustig wont tell us his setup he used in the video, we cant judge anyone for this. Maybe Peter lustig hate some guys loomed all his fire resis on purpose to harm them.
If the protector is shot down under 10% Peter lustig would still take 50% fire damage, cause the psi shield + armor + skills calculation isnt the same. Also we dont know if he has skilled psi resis which seem to work, though its still buggy. :P
Next time if you think any guy is cheating, get in stealth alt+tab open your current damagelog and post the damage.
Not that it matters to anyone but if I remember correctly peter has bad fire resist on that spy. I haven't played in a wile and I blame Xanu for that lol, but I remember him being much weaker to a certain damage type. It might have been poison thanks to his lol battle armor setup but it was one of the two.
edit: After thinking about it for a min, it was probably poison and that was a wile ago...so nvm...
ratakresch
20-10-11, 16:19
Power read carefully. I said he will have like 60% fire resist against an apoc without protector on his spy. thats because i would skill like that. with protector its about 70%.
and psi resist isnt buggy. for me its working fine!
So again. 60% resist without red shield and you get max dmg like 450 on the head (which the apu in this video never hits) will result in a dmg from about 180 or so. with 70% its 135dmg. but look the apu does way more dmg even if he only hits his feet oder body.
and i know peter has this kind of resist. because my setup is most likely the same.
I think the 500 dmg the first apoc does while peter has pad and a running heal is self-explanatory.
Not by any strech of the imagination I can see anyone else shooting him there.
And I was also in that fight, that APU did 2-3 times the dmg a devo did. Peter gets hit by a devo at about 1:00, so you can also compare that to the APOC and see the DMG is way out of proportions.
3 pages of cheat discussison (though not literally against the rules since we dont discuss the actual cheats), and still no gm closing... yes... KK really cares about us! it makes me feel all fuzzy and warm inside.
It takes about 1300 raw SH damage to do about 300 damage to a holopa spy with a headshot without a ppu shield.
Now I know you will all say that I cant generalize like that because everyones setup is different etc. But, they arnt all that different, almost everyone uses Holopa and AK which means there are significant commonalities.
Now if it takes 1300 raw damage to do 300 to a spy with a headshot. Imagine what the raw damage of that FA would be to do as much damage as it did, with a bodyshot, to a ppud spy?
Even with a 25% bias advantage to that apu. It would still be massive.
Now, I find it really hard to believe that they would use sandwiches on their APUs but have the ethics to not use them on their spies and tanks? Most of their spies are shit but are also potential sandwich users.
Their tanks though, there is no question at all. I saw Falk out-sniping a SH using an ionic cannon, and all those tanks deving people from 50-60 feet away. Their crosshairs are like this . when the rest of ours are like this ( )
If we can avoid using the usual word for sandwhich and use another word so the lazy GMs dont just do their usual search & lock routine and actually read the thread.
We really need some GMs who understand pvp. I dont mean suck up tradeskillers but ones that know that a tank outrunning a quad isnt right or know what the damage outputs of APUs like that isnt normal.
Right now, the GMs that we do have are all very herp-derpy-doo and this is why nothing is done about people like that apu.
Here you get the dmg logs from the fire apoc holy lightning and holy poison beam..form Destany
the funny thing is that soad knows that some guys from their clan cheats but they like it i think..
Local Player:Damage() - Damage processing statistics!
Damage: 858.932 Target Feuer HitZone 1 - Part 0
Damage: 706.983 (Reduction: 151.949 - 17.690 Percentage) - Damage caused by PSI
Damage: 494.888 (Reduction: 364.044 - 42.383 Percentage) - Damage reduced by shield
Damage: 425.590 (Reduction: 433.342 - 50.451 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
Damage: 291.909 (Reduction: 567.023 - 66.015 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
Results of this target: Damage 291.909 (Reduction: 567.023 - 66.015 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.800!
Local Player:Damage() - Damage processing statistics!
Damage: 885.303 Target Feuer HitZone 1 - Part 0
Damage: 728.689 (Reduction: 156.614 - 17.690 Percentage) - Damage caused by PSI
Damage: 550.671 (Reduction: 334.631 - 37.799 Percentage) - Damage reduced by shield
Damage: 473.562 (Reduction: 411.741 - 46.508 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
Damage: 324.812 (Reduction: 560.490 - 63.311 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
Results of this target: Damage 324.812 (Reduction: 560.490 - 63.311 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.800!
Local Player:Damage() - Damage processing statistics!
Damage: 606.648 Target Energie HitZone 2 - Part 0
Damage: 499.330 (Reduction: 107.319 - 17.690 Percentage) - Damage caused by PSI
Damage: 522.808 (Reduction: 83.840 - 13.820 Percentage) - Damage reduced by shield
Damage: 403.634 (Reduction: 203.014 - 33.465 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
Damage: 216.139 (Reduction: 390.509 - 64.372 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
Results of this target: Damage 216.139 (Reduction: 390.509 - 64.372 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.800!
Local Player:Damage() - Damage processing statistics!
Damage: 823.162 Target Feuer HitZone 1 - Part 0
Damage: 677.541 (Reduction: 145.621 - 17.690 Percentage) - Damage caused by PSI
Damage: 474.279 (Reduction: 348.883 - 42.383 Percentage) - Damage reduced by shield
Damage: 407.867 (Reduction: 415.295 - 50.451 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
Damage: 279.753 (Reduction: 543.410 - 66.015 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
Results of this target: Damage 279.753 (Reduction: 543.410 - 66.015 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.800!
Local Player:Damage() - Damage processing statistics!
Damage: 645.144 Target Gift HitZone 1 - Part 0
Damage: 531.015 (Reduction: 114.129 - 17.690 Percentage) - Damage caused by PSI
Damage: 371.711 (Reduction: 273.433 - 42.383 Percentage) - Damage reduced by shield
Damage: 298.101 (Reduction: 347.043 - 53.793 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
Damage: 222.333 (Reduction: 422.811 - 65.537 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
ratakresch
20-10-11, 18:19
yeah seems like it. but if he wants he can do more dmg ^^
So guys i make for you a new video to show you what dmg can make a woc3 APU on me.. with shields and without shields!! they need 11-12 fire apocs to kill me destany only needet 3-4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjFev_G-zxM
is cowdblud back again on ashkandar? (I saw ashkandar pop up on ooc in that last video) or is that account used by someone else these days?
cowdblud... the only person stupid enough to actually pay with his normal paypal account for sandwiches :S
but tbh, the discussion whether destany cheats in that movie or not is kinda moot. SOAD itself admitted that he cheats, he himself has apparently said he cheats, and every player that has played against him knows he cheats. Nothing will be done by GM's, so why bother ;)
Someone was playing ashkandar earlier, probably cowd. His AK freq was so absurdly high it would only play like bits and pieces of the sound file. He was probably on this other tank that also had a ridiculously high frequency on an EOF.
everyone saw it, nothing new.
The other one that is great is when people AOE at really close range with weapons like doombeamer, and do tons of damage to everyone else but almost none to them.
Now, anyone who actually plays this game legit knows that your own AOE bypasses all your resists from skills and armor etc. A doombeamer fired in a furball will do catastrophic damage to you. This is why no one ever used them.
Until now...the new soad tactic is when overwhelmed or frustrated to pull out the old doombeamer and start firing into the ground pretty much right at their feet. Imagine the rocket launcher from quake 3, using it that way.
Obvious idea but with the self aoe damage also obviously quite stupid. So for years no body did it. Now we can either assume that in the 4 or 5 years that this game hasnt changed at all nobody discovered whatever revolutionary tactic soad has worked out to avoid this self aoe damage...or its simply another one of their sandwhiches.
Ofc we'll hear all the generic excuses "lol 500 base enr con lol" and the GMs wont do a thing.
Ghostface_Speak
20-10-11, 22:17
Their crosshairs are like this . when the rest of ours are like this ( )
You seem to know a lot about this :wtf:
who doesnt these days... I know how most of the sandwiches work, partly from how they appear in the game, partly from technical knowledge from other games and development (I used to run a gaming community, and had to give final verdicts on bans by my admin team), and partly because I try to find out from people who make them so my accusations aren't baseless.
that said, I'm way too afraid of keyloggers and spyware to even do the classic "yeah i just installed the cheats to test how they work", so my knowledge is never first hand, which means the info isn't firsthand, which means I can't provide gm's or KK with actual useful info. (most of the people who got their accounts "hacked", just installed keyloggers with their hacks)
Powerpunsh
21-10-11, 00:00
@ Ratakresch i dunno what going on in Op-fights atm so in the past sometimes people tried to harm others to get them banned. Thats why i asked for an evidence like a dmg log. :angel:
So what to do with these cheaters?
William Antrim
21-10-11, 00:07
@ Ratakresch i dunno what going on in Op-fights atm so in the past sometimes people tried to harm others to get them banned. Thats why i asked for an evidence like a dmg log. :angel:
So what to do with these cheaters?
WORD!
Ratakresch I dunno who you are but you're pretty much dissing a very respected member of hte community here. I just hope that you have some solid evidence here for this.
Ghostface_Speak
21-10-11, 01:34
Ratakresch I dunno who you are but you're pretty much dissing a very respected member of hte community here. I just hope that you have some solid evidence here for this.
+1
Couldn't have said it better than Mr.Antrim here
Ratakresch I dunno who you are but you're pretty much dissing a very respected member of hte community here. I just hope that you have some solid evidence here for this.
Mr Antrim,
I must have missed the part regarding the "very respected member of the community".
Who is this member?
Besides, all Ratakresch has written so far here and in the german section is a conclusive and logical explanation, to me. The deduction is flawless.
Maybe this "very respected member of the community" gave somebody his acc?
However, I was in that fight myself with my ppu and I got killed too by that apu. I was fully buffed, had a holy heal running, and pad on. The first hit cost me 500 dmg and made me as slow as a turtle. I was dead a few seconds later.
Until then the fight had almost lasted 2 hours or so but the APU killed everybody in minutes. That was very strange.
SOAD members told everyobody in OOC after the fight that sandwiching is legit because everybody who is better than them is automatically thought to be doing it. In their opinion there are no better players than they are and therefore everybody is using sandwiches and they have to do it too.
In my opinion a reason like this means that everybody is allowed to do everything he wants as long as he thinks that or sees somebody else doing it. Following that logic means that we should all be murderers, rapists, and thiefs. In the end, it is just a lame excuse for the mentally weak and the traitors in this world.
If you havent been opfighting I really dont see how you can possibly have anything to add to this conversation. To you pre 2.2 opfighters, the game has changed a lot. You show up with a slasher PE or a executioner youll get laughed at, the game has changed and youve lost touch. Forumcron guys, why dont you actually opfight and then comment? As it stands your comments are only taking up space and I personally dont care what forumwhores have to say when it comes to opfights, especially if their last opfight was in 2.1 or if they think that a judge PE is a viable opfight setup.
The evidence is in the video, interpret it however you want however ultimately it doesnt matter because there are no GMs.
Ghostface_Speak
21-10-11, 13:37
As it stands your comments are only taking up space and I personally dont care what forumwhores have to say when it comes to opfights
Ok guys,all stop posting.Internet-Masterrace 3rd reich guy has told you so :rolleyes:
the respected person being powerpunsh, who as he says knows nothing of the current situation. However, he was not being accused of cheating, just of knowing nothing of the current situation.
that said, most of the "casual" cheaters in soad honestly believe that everyone else cheats, and somehow feel that this entitles them to cheat as well. Ivan Eres was right in that this is one of the most stupid pieces of reasoning, but let's face it, the majority of soad just want to win fights at all costs, and saying "but they're doing it too!" just gives them an excuse.
ratakresch
21-10-11, 18:17
thats a misunderstanding then. i don't want to disrespect ppl., accept destany :P
but i can't stand it, if people write stuff here that is out of the blue. i like facts from the game. and not some maybe this, maybe that stuff.
William Antrim
21-10-11, 21:25
Not sure who you're referring to here Crush0r but I have had a handful of op fights against SOAD recently me old cocker and honestly, none of em scare me.
I haven't noticed anyone cheating either for that matter. I am not saying they don't do it but in the heat of the moment I find it difficult to tell who I am taking damage from.
Sure the beauty of Fraps is you can rewind clips and view them again and analyse them to death. I agree with that wholeheartedly but when the shit flinging comes to the forums and people start with "he said, she said" arguments it detracts from logical facts and becomes more school yard banter.
what facts are you talking about? cheating in soad is not something that is under discussion... they fully admit to doing it.
Whether or not that apu was cheating, is something that could possibly be debated. though I've never seen someone who played against that apu doubt it.
and yes, it is true that hardly anyone in soad is any good (no international "veterans" in soad, just apparently mars "legends"), although they occasionally have decent players online, which is mostly the reason why they so easily allow their members to cheat, they honestly believe that anyone better than them is cheating. Hell, one of the highest ranking officers in soad told the story about how some of their members were actually using cheats the wrong way, making them actually LESS effective in a fight..
but I think a large portion of this is that apparently the resists and setups are completely different on the german server, so these soad players who still skill like they used to on mars, see people with terra optimized setups do incredible things.
cheating in soad is not something that's doubted, it is established fact, corroberated by people all the way up to and including the leader and his officers. They don't do it all the time, but they feel justified to do it.
Biggie, there still are/were (very) good and very clean players in soad, but recently the cheats spread like an epidemic and I think some players left due to that. And I don't think setups work differently on Terra, there're just some original Terra dudes who cheat like pros, of whom you might not think it.
Sonder f.e. (I know he s no original Terra player) maintained the image of a cheater pursuer for quite a while, and shortly after he was banned he uploded howto cheat videos on youtube. (And there are more vids of ppl recording themselfs cheating if you search)
Doc Holliday
22-10-11, 07:58
LOL at the different optimisation for mars comment. thats made me laugh.
No comments on the op scene or the cheating scene but just a piece to add on soad in general. I have seen some very old names of chars in that clan and cant say for sure whether they are the original players or they are account shares now or they got passed on to others but some of them are very well known to me from a long way back. they are/were old old players who were shit back then and probably shit now.
jini played for 8 years night and day and hes still shit. ;) It makes me wonder how you cannot get even slightly better at a game playing it for that long. i know i never had that issue.
I never played on mars, so can't comment on validity. But a lot of the germans were very adament that resists work differently on mars.
A lot of them (germans) also use sandwhiches. I wouldnt trust their knowledge of the game farther than I could throw one (which isnt very far)
I see no reason why the resists would be different, nevertheless. Everyone uses cookie cutter setups here as far as offence goes. Which means that most setups on the defense have something in common.
Will, Ide like to see how you do against torrez, cowd or basically any of the soad tanks. They start tagging you with dev from pretty far away and if you are a spy you are dead in like 4 shots. That means that if you have to pull a weapon out you already have at least 2 stacks before you even begin to fire. Its not about it being scary or about being impressed. Its about game mechanics which are meant to restrict the player (weapon range + crosshair spread + runspeed/resist tradeoff/economics) Not applying to them but still applying to you.
That plus their ridiculously high damage and their overly high resists coupled with their absurd runspeed.
You might not notice the cheating because you think if a monk hits you for 500 with a fire apoc its normal, or if you are on the roof of simmons and a tank hits you with dev from the ground floor while running at full tilt thats normal too. You lack perspective just like whatever GMs we have left, if any.
This is what I mean about forum-queens being out of touch with the game - you cant actually comprehend fighting someone like that until youve actually done it.
In the time Ive been playing the sandwhiches havent changed, only the people who use them - on occasion and how they use them. A few years ago people actually tried not to get seen with sandwhiches if they used them. "Maybe my damage is a bit too high, I should tone it down".. "I run so fast its blatantly obvious, maybe I should tone it down".
Now its just like "lol 450 hc lololool" and people dont care who sees them and openly admit to using sandwhiches because they dont care and they KNOW that the GMs care even LESS than anyone else.
The most important thing however is that BF3 is coming out in like a week so the only ones left here will be the sandwhich users - and everyone knows sandwhich users hate fighting each other which is why we've never seen an even distribution of them in the entire op scene ever.
William Antrim
22-10-11, 21:51
Sorry to get personal but Torrez is terrible. I've fought him on my spy and dropped him 1v1 a few times with his buffs etc.
I have seen him run from fights plenty too. I dont cheat and I dont rate his setup or his resists either quite honestly. I cant say I have ever seen any cheating behaviour either and yes I have fought against him a few times in recent weeks.
As Doc rightly said, quite a few of those guys are old players from years ago and have never been good.
Whether they cheat or not is not really a problem to me. I take it as a compliment but I am really not sure what the point of this thread is now?
ratakresch
22-10-11, 22:05
nothing but to show all people how destany is cheating on his apu. everybody knows that allready.
Sorry to get personal but Torrez is terrible. I've fought him on my spy and dropped him 1v1 a few times with his buffs etc.
I have seen him run from fights plenty too. I dont cheat and I dont rate his setup or his resists either quite honestly. I cant say I have ever seen any cheating behaviour either and yes I have fought against him a few times in recent weeks.
As Doc rightly said, quite a few of those guys are old players from years ago and have never been good.
Whether they cheat or not is not really a problem to me. I take it as a compliment but I am really not sure what the point of this thread is now?
Ive also seen entire op teams shooting at him with the most overpowered weapons in the game and the damage ticks are only in the double digits.
So from what we can draw from this is that anecdotal evidence is at best entertaining but mostly pointless, especially when it comes from those who cant interpret it.
We can also infer that torrez is a shared account because otherwise the math simply doesnt support your story.
Who is your spy and what clan have you been Opping with?
I only ask because the sandwiches is a problem for everyone but you...It would be interesting to see this from your perspective seeing how its so different from everyone elses.
Powerpunsh
22-10-11, 22:43
Meaning that i dunno whats going on in opfights atm means not that i have no idea whats going on with fighting in general. ;)
I said reasons for my doubts and you made them clear. Thats all.
Please check your damagelog
Fore sure and just the info. Hes a WoC APU and can get his Fireapoc to about 1000 spelldmg which deals around 500dmg pure dmg on ur character due to its given efficiency (around 50%).
500dmg - shields - armor - skills. The result looks fine.
Thanks for your attention
Dr. Watson aka Powerpunsh. :angel:
What you said here made it seem like you had no idea how the game worked.
Ghostface_Speak
22-10-11, 23:57
Tinfoil hat time!
what facts are you talking about? cheating in soad is not something that is under discussion... they fully admit to doing it.
"They" admit that where?
.. which is mostly the reason why they so easily allow their members to cheat, they honestly believe that anyone better than them is cheating. Hell, one of the highest ranking officers in soad told the story about how some of their members were actually using cheats the wrong way, making them actually LESS effective in a fight..
Mhahaha,classic comedy.You grab that out of thin air and make it "fact" without proof.
Whole Page 4 here is full with brainfarts,really.
A few years ago people actually tried not to get seen with sandwhiches if they used them. "Maybe my damage is a bit too high, I should tone it down".. "I run so fast its blatantly obvious, maybe I should tone it down".
Yeah,im sure thats what was going on in your Clanchat."Back in the days",right? I mean,this reads as first hand expirience.
You also seem to know a lot about what a "modded" crosshair looks like so u seem to be deep into such things.
We can also infer that torrez is a shared account because otherwise the math simply doesnt support your story.
Oh,look,its a conspiracy! Its a shared account with all the hackers on it!
Beeebooobeeeboobeeeebooo :lol:
I suggest you people read the last part of gamefreak's post again.
Many people that jump the "im a legit player" train might got some dirty paws themself
Powerpunsh
22-10-11, 23:59
What you said here made it seem like you had no idea how the game worked.
Not?
"Fire Apoc 886/411,931" looks like ~46% efficience, lets say close to 50%. So if 1000damage are possible lets say 500 raw damage.
As i said:
1. I didnt know that the psi resis skill is working <- my nesciences and ive learned
2. really important: Sometimes people try to declare someone as a cheater to harm him/get him banned. No matter what the way requires and that includes shitgameplay like looming all resis and playin like without one.
Lets make this clear: I didnt know what was happening in the showed opfight, cause i wasnt there like 80% of the thread. Just post more info/details next time to make things clear. :angel:
"They" admit that where?
on ooc, in ts, in private conversations. Sato, falk, and this other dude i cant remember the name of atm. I could troll my console logs when i get back on my desktop... but then you would just accuse me of making those logs up anyway, so whats the point...
Mhahaha,classic comedy.You grab that out of thin air and make it "fact" without proof.
it was an anecdote told by one of the soad officers abour another soad member... I know the names of both, but what's the point... it was an anecdote... it's not like anything we're saying on here is supposed to prove anything... it's a discussion amongst people who know what's happening...
who are you in game? of course someone from soad, but you sound even more oblivious than most...
ratakresch
23-10-11, 10:20
Power don't you understand???? It's not possible to do 800 or 1000 dmg. Thats the raw dmg i was talking about. Damage before resist kick in is raw dmg for me. And this raw dmg can't be higher then 500. So the 880.xx or what the log here in this thread show, is not possible. even if you have like 240 psi use, 200 apu and 200 fcs, you will only get round about 450 raw dmg.
So don't stop thinking 1000 dmg is possible. it isn't.
Oh and watch this. We tested killing PeterLustig with an Woc 3 Apu.
Peter Lustig gets killed by woc3 apu (http://www.youtube.com/user/peterlustig891#p/a/u/0/RjFev_G-zxM)
edit: oh and i got another one. The log files nclite posted. that where all hits to his body or feet. you can see its hitzone 1 or 2! the log i posted with 446.xx dmg is hitzone 0 the head.
Yep, I dont know first hand how much damage a FA does but I am sure it doesnt do more than 1000, with that frequency it would be devastating in PVP - It would be absurd damage just like what Destany did in that video and we would be seeing a lot more APUs
Now, There are caps to refire and handling but not range and damage as those are on the main skill. However the curve becomes almost completely flat so the difference between 400 and 1000 is almost nothing but the difference between 400 and 200 mainskill is quite a lot. The devs balanced so that you could never get to 400.
(these are just theoretical numbers, the point is that the damage gain per skill point invested curve becomes very flat towards the top and any significant differences in damage between two capped characters of the same class and weapon type indicate an even more significant difference in skill points specced in the main skill) IE, a spy with SH who hits for 220 vs ones who hits for 300, the 220 could be like 200 RC and the 300 would be more along the lines of 250+)
For an apu to hit for 500 with an FA would require a ton of raw damage, which in turn would require a ton of apu, way more than is achivable using the standard game mechanics.
How anyone could think a hit for 500 is normal is beyond me. I dont think the warhammer can hit for 500. I know the silent hunter doesnt.The most Ive seen is like 340, and the Silent hunter does 1200 raw damage @230 rc
Powerpunsh
23-10-11, 14:00
Power don't you understand???? It's not possible to do 800 or 1000 dmg. Thats the raw dmg i was talking about. Damage before resist kick in is raw dmg for me. And this raw dmg can't be higher then 500. So the 880.xx or what the log here in this thread show, is not possible. even if you have like 240 psi use, 200 apu and 200 fcs, you will only get round about 450 raw dmg.
So don't stop thinking 1000 dmg is possible. it isn't.
Oh and watch this. We tested killing PeterLustig with an Woc 3 Apu.
Peter Lustig gets killed by woc3 apu (http://www.youtube.com/user/peterlustig891#p/a/u/0/RjFev_G-zxM)
edit: oh and i got another one. The log files nclite posted. that where all hits to his body or feet. you can see its hitzone 1 or 2! the log i posted with 446.xx dmg is hitzone 0 the head.
Read carefully! Some posts ago i thanked for NCelites EVIDENCE! Thats all i was asking for in the whole thread and i had to admit to bring evidences like this before "instead" of an video which can be easly manipulated.
I just brought my thoughts to this thread but are they in such a miserable english that you dont get it? Then i have to apologize i just do my best. :rolleyes:
William Antrim
23-10-11, 14:26
I have been op fighting with the german ca clan whos name escapes me and also with Immune.
My spys name is my forum name.
As previously stated during the bedlam of most op fights I have not noticed cheating occurring, mostly because I am concentrating on what I am doing, not everyone else.
The benefits of Fraps and being able to rewind the feeds are very evident to me as that is my line of work outside of this game. I dont always see things i should do first time.
I know people in SOAD cheat. I know people in all clans in nc now cheat. There have always been cheaters. I know that too. I have seen them with my own eyes. CS's that dont miss etc.
What I am saying is why have a huge discussion here when the evidence can be presented to the GMs?
If you cant get people banned and you dont like cheating then boycott opfights instead of shit flinging on the forums. If you dont like the game in its current state then dont play. Noone forces you to.
Personally I am quite happy to play it as it is and if I come across people cheating I will respectfully bow out and not play with them or against them. I still manage to have fun.
ratakresch
23-10-11, 14:35
a misunderstanding then. i don'T understand why you bring your 50% efficience. and talking about 1000dmg. because this is totaly out of it.
sorry ;)
and dont take me wrong. i don't complain about the cheaters. there are enough of them. instant belt hacker for example. or destany cheating on apu. it didnt bother me. it's boring me. but the fact is. if you want to fight and you have to fight against such ppl , because there aren't many different people opfighting nowadys. there are still people who don't understand or close their eyes and pretend its everything normal. so before anybode calls everybody a cheater, i wantd to show them how you can see trough it and find the real ones.
i think thats what peter wanted too.
Ive been opfighting with the german CA clan - LG since I got back. Ive also been opfighting with immune on and off for the better part of 2 years, maybe even 3.
Ive never seen you - Maybe because I didnt play for like a year or maybe our timezones are just that different - I didnt know there were actual opfights off peak hours, there are barely any on prime time.
But yea, when youve been fighting for 2 hours and its been pretty much a stalemate and an APU or tank shows up and kills everyone. Then you have no choice but to notice.
From my position at opfights I'll see an enemy tank zone from the UG and immediately get engaged by one of our tanks and 2 or 3 AK and dissy spies. It used to be in that situation a tank used to go down hard because the damage output of that combination was absurdly high and no amount of drugs and ppu buffs would save you.
Now take this scenario and combine it with what I saw the other night, same sort of setup, a tank zones up with his ppu and 2 silent hunter snipers immediatly engage the ppu while the rest of the team goes onto the tank. A ppu cannot defend against 2 silent hunters, especially at an op like simmons where there is so much open space infront of the UG, the only thing they can clip around is the UG, the gate or that tree next to it.
This ppu is busy putting up his own shields and his own heals against the SH attack (2 snipers, by the 3rd shot each have severely broken the ppus shield and are now doing in excess of 150+ per volley)
So this essentially means that the tank has no one to refresh his shields and still the resists and speed are incredible.
You would have to either be blind or incredibly ignorant not to notice something like that. Or completely new to op fighting and just think that "this is how its supposed to be."
William Antrim
23-10-11, 15:27
Well I am none of the above I can assure you.
In my time in nc I went to more op fights than I had hot dinners. I have a wealth of experience in pvp in neocron in all of its forms. The last one being only recently. I went to a handful of fights recently and saw enough from the opposition to note that very little has changed in the time I was away.
The fact that you havent seen me doesnt really matter.
I never said it did matter or should matter. I was just beginning to think that you were just another one of these forum princesses with more posts than fights who actually believed that the join date under your avatar gives you absolute and superior experience. Join date =/= experience.
I was starting to get the impression that I was dealing with "one of those people". I rather play against hackers than get into a forum pissing match with a forum-queen.
But if anyone who has actually been to an opfight, in neocron 2.2, not 2.1 or some rust bucket from nc1 and knows how the game works has something to say then im willing to listen. Forumqueers and sandwhich users really cant have anything say that can actually contribute.
(or people who think 500 damage from a FA is normal)
i like it u all talkin only about SOAD but NO OTHER ONE IN NEOCRON CHEATS in IMMUNE AND LG? :wtf: :rolleyes:
Zaj use hitbox hack
rappler use hitboxhack/use freq on ak and crossbow / atl agil edited
and other but dunno the names !!!!
dont talk only about SOAD !!!
in germany we say:
who live in glass houses should not throw with stones
I dont cheat.
Also, its not like bibo forums are written in english, know what I mean?
Did Trivaldi quit or get fired? Or did his once a month browsing of the forums not happen yet?
its not like bibo forums
gimme link ! :rolleyes:
hmm, of course it's impossible to prove that none in immune cheat. The difference with soad though is that we don't support cheating, and the moment we find out someone is cheating, they get kicked from immune and reported to KK (which has regretfully happened a few times).
also internally if we have doubts, we investigate with setups, screenshots and videos.
Of course, none of this proves anything to people outside of immune, but that's pretty much all we can do.
i never see a screen from skills and weapons NEVER !!!!!!
videos ok from one of this player !!!
but NEVER a screen and i never see a vid from invinci why?! i say only applepie or applecore ppu ^^ buggin arround gogu and something ;) invinci know what i mean ^^ :rolleyes:
and who are kicked reported?
master matthew?!? lol he warping with weapon ^^
lol and lol O_o :D o_O :cool: :p :lol: ;) :( :) :rolleyes: 8| :eek: :o :wtf:
ratakresch
23-10-11, 19:39
it's getting funny now ;)
if you want to discuss things sensibly, feel free to try and do that, like starting with who the hell you are anyway. Secondly, I never said the screens were for public viewing... im not gonna share my setup with you, and i sure as fuck wouldn't tell people with their own setups to do it for people who aren't showing a willingness to be reasonable.
In the past we have shared these items with reasonable clanleaders, GM's and respected community members.
now, all I said that we do internal checks, and with trusted/respected people we are willing to share any info to satisfy their needs. Not with flaming idiots who can't even put a civil sentence together, any screenshots or videos would just be dismissed anyway.
and yes, invinci clips around the gr when he's being attacked by 10 people from soad, while it could be considered an exploit to use the netcode like that, it has been made clear time and time again that it is in fact not an exploit. With clans that have been willing to work together against cheaters, we have often made deals not to clip or overcast during opfights, and those fights have always been a lot of fun. But when a clan constantly comes with at least 3 or 4 times as many members, constantly harasses our members, even before soad allowed cheaters in there, then yes, we will clip and overcast... deal with it.
At any point you can try and be reasonable, and we will discuss any conditions for fun fights, or with providing explanations/videos/screens of suspect behavior. But not with people that are unreasonable.
omg, same shit, different year :rolleyes:
not really, it's been getting worse and worse
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