View Full Version : nc3 done right...
1. strong cheat protection,
2. low latency,
3. no zoning,
4. nc1-like factions,
5. one server only,
6. deeper crafting system,
7. more sandbox elements,
8. slower character progression,
9. way fewer bugs,
10. streaming patch system
Powerpunsh
09-04-11, 19:48
/signed
"4. nc1-like factions,"
No-thank-you
And better PvE please, it's very important.
Like Sex.
8. slower character progression,
i agree to you list, whil #8 is esp. important. put an end to grinding to cap and getting bored soon after.
tbh, two tracks would be better I think, especially for the current player base. Make a slower but very interesting leveling path for those that play the game for that side of the game. And a fast track path for those that have either completed another character and can maybe fund the new character, or some mindnumbingly boring way to level faster, this would be more suitable for those that play the game for endgame (which lets face it, is like 90% of the current playerbase) (maybe even make it as simple as buying a 2x xp booster or something
(maybe even make it as simple as buying a 2x xp booster or something
I like this idea, but I would MAJORLY cap it per person, maybe 2 per person per 72hours, and they only last like 4-6 hours? That way you don't get the exploiters and spammers drugging up on xp boosters and making millions and capping in a day and then selling their stuff for real money.
tbh, two tracks would be better I think, especially for the current player base. Make a slower but very interesting leveling path for those that play the game for that side of the game. And a fast track path for those that have either completed another character and can maybe fund the new character, or some mindnumbingly boring way to level faster, this would be more suitable for those that play the game for endgame (which lets face it, is like 90% of the current playerbase) (maybe even make it as simple as buying a 2x xp booster or something
Exp boost for each capped character perhaps?
derretimos
09-04-11, 22:09
1. strong cheat protection,
2. low latency,
3. no zoning,
4. nc1-like factions,
5. one server only,
6. deeper crafting system,
7. more sandbox elements,
8. slower character progression,
9. way fewer bugs,
10. streaming patch system
1. Or even an attempt at reducing the cheating population
2. = server based right in your neighborhood probably isn't possible
3. Instancing is more viable especially if they go f2p
4. terrible idea
5. another terrible idea
6. crafting in nc has always been great, and usually when they try to improve something they fuck its face off, so leave crafting alone.
8. agreed.
9. that's a given.
10. probably wouldn't work and it contradicts your number 2.
11. more dice rolls and swords and magic forest and elves.
exp boost? what for? there is no reason to have such thing in NC... This game isn't a F2P game type... don't make it!
#11 open source the game src code, control the uploaded code to avoid back doors , use the community to improve the game client/server side.
#12 release client updates often thx to #11.
#13 slowly upgrade 3d models and add new content!
derretimos
09-04-11, 22:24
exp boost? what for? there is no reason to have such thing in NC... This game isn't a F2P game type... don't make it!
assuming they go the route of BP (http://blackprophecy.com/)
1. Or even an attempt at reducing the cheating population
2. = server based right in your neighborhood probably isn't possible
3. Instancing is more viable especially if they go f2p
4. terrible idea
5. another terrible idea
6. crafting in nc has always been great, and usually when they try to improve something they fuck its face off, so leave crafting alone.
8. agreed.
9. that's a given.
10. probably wouldn't work and it contradicts your number 2.
11. more dice rolls and swords and magic forest and elves.
3. they shouldn't go fp. i hate hate fucking fucking hate game shops. especially if there's "mandatory items" in there. also, instancing takes away immersion. a well designed client doesn't need instancing,
4. why are some people keep saying that? i don't think faction hopping should be endorsed the way it was back in the ol' days, but i generally liked it as it was,
5. i see why this could be bad. it's especially contradicting with 2., but a high population on a server is #1 imho,
6. what's great at the current crafting system? you have almost no tangible influence on the outcome. it's sheer luck and you still get everything way too easy. somehow games turned the meaning of the word "rare" inside out. there's too little effort to craft good stuff really,
10. not necessarily. if for examples you limit patch streaming to times, when a player is not engaged in combat or other suitable situations. this probably won't work for patches that have hundreds of megabytes, but should work fine for small hotfixes and the like,
11. too obvious ;).
8. slower character progression,
Disagree 100%. I hate games that take forever to level in. The games content should keep you from getting bored, not the constant grind to level.
I played WoW for a week before saying screw that game. I wasn't going to throw my life away to level up a character just to have some fun.
NC allows me to cap a character in no time so I can get on with other things in the game, like kicking ass at op fights?
derretimos
10-04-11, 04:42
Disagree 100%. I hate games that take forever to level in. The games content should keep you from getting bored, not the constant grind to level.
I played WoW for a week before saying screw that game. I wasn't going to throw my life away to level up a character just to have some fun.
NC allows me to cap a character in no time so I can get on with other things in the game, like kicking ass at op fights?
maybe it's because i played on a pvp server where you can get face fucked by a level 70 (when that was the cap) rogue while leveling but wow also has pvp in different level brackets and surprisingly the most fun i had playing that game was in the level 60 pvp bracket. not saying that nc should or will have that type of system but really, if you're leveling with an le in because you don't want to pvp, go carebear elsewhere.
neocron is essentially all about pvp, i've leveled characters back in nc1 and have done my share of killing and being killed while leveling. le's are gay imo.
maybe it's because i played on a pvp server where you can get face fucked by a level 70 (when that was the cap) rogue while leveling but wow also has pvp in different level brackets and surprisingly the most fun i had playing that game was in the level 60 pvp bracket. not saying that nc should or will have that type of system but really, if you're leveling with an le in because you don't want to pvp, go carebear elsewhere.
neocron is essentially all about pvp, i've leveled characters back in nc1 and have done my share of killing and being killed while leveling. le's are gay imo.
I don't have an LE in, and don't have LE's in for any of my characters except my droner. Why you ask? Because NC is full of assholes now who would jump at the chance to gank a very underpowered and squishy opponent. Nobody even bothers with my high level characters.
I wasn't going to throw my life away to level up a character just to have some fun.right. in nearly all competitive mmos you need to have a near capped char to do decent pvp. so what? faster levelling up, or smaller differences in combat power between, say, a pain easer and a disruptor? by now you'll need the few top weapons (and gear) for a fight in NC. i say: remove the tech/woc-boni, so high-end weapons will be better, but not overwhelmingly better, than nearly-high-end ones. it's a matter of end-game balancing.
#13 quickly and perfectly upgrade 3d models and add new content!
Fixed
Marc Hoover
10-04-11, 11:02
NC 1 like Factions! <3
Don't forget. Neocron is a postapokalyptic and cyberpunk styled game.
what about a dynamic mission system based on bounty. if a player kills another player and he's seen by the authorities, he should get a bounty on his head. the higher "power (aka level)" difference between the parties, the higher mission rewards on that particular player.
there could be levels of punishment for people who constantly kill other lower level players. for example if you include some kind of market place or auction house, players could be excluded. same for the terminals or gene reps. people should be made a aware that being criminal can be tough. for example if you are at a very low security status, you can only take only bounty missions and you can only raise your security status and not get any or reduced rewards depending on your status. i can think of a myriad of things to reduce enticement to kill lower level players. nc already has some of those ideas implemented, but not on a scale, where griefing lowbies stops being fun.
Regarding faction system... I'd prefer this idea (Jason Parker's idea)
Dynamic Faction System: And by dynamic I mean dynamic in every way. Factions change their attitude towards each other based on player actions. Even new factions can be foundet by players or clans respectively.
Regarding the OP's list...
I agree with every point on that list. I'm not too fond of number 8, but in reality, it probably needs to happen. Just please bear in mind that the grind has to be a fun one, if you're going to force it on people.
Regarding faction system... I'd prefer this idea (Jason Parker's idea)
Regarding the OP's list...
I agree with every point on that list. I'm not too fond of number 8, but in reality, it probably needs to happen. Just please bear in mind that the grind has to be a fun one, if you're going to force it on people.
actually, i was thinking of something along the line of logarithmic growth. my point is, there shouldn't be a max level in anything. i don't see how this whole "endgame mentality" makes any sense. i don't want to grind my way through a game until i can start having a fun gaming experience. reaching higher levels at later stages at the game should set you apart from crowd, but only so little as to someone having a slight but barely noticeable advantage through time played. i tend to think nc3 should be more about skill than age pvp wise. pve can always be fun as long as there's a considerable challenge. rewards shouldn't be too high in any case, pvp or pve.
to highlight my points: i've just seen, what happens if you cater to casuals. RIFT. i've burned through the content of that game in 25 days and i've almost turned every stone upside down twice... and i even took my time. others where even in full raid epics in not even two weeks after release having killed every boss and seen the whole world. i for one got bored and quit. there's nothing to last in that game. it's just a quick fix for the junkie.
i seriously don't want this to happen to nc3. grinding your way to the top level should not be the goal of the game.
what about a leveling system that allows you to combine skills, much like in magicka only in a more cyber-punkish way. every skill should have some sort of learning function depending on your prime stats, which could depend on your class and professions plus a few points to spend at character creation. then you have a huge pool of skills you can train by using the appropriate actions. after you've achieved a certain level in different skills they could activate another skill you can train. balancing this could be neigh impossible, but also it could lead to loads of FUN. just imagine, a game that's fun! every other odd patch adds new weapon / crafting / fun skills in the game, that need to be discovered by combination. omg, i'm full of ideas!!!
what about a dynamic mission system based on bounty. if a player kills another player and he's seen by the authorities, he should get a bounty on his head. the higher "power (aka level)" difference between the parties, the higher mission rewards on that particular player.
there could be levels of punishment for people who constantly kill other lower level players. for example if you include some kind of market place or auction house, players could be excluded. same for the terminals or gene reps. people should be made a aware that being criminal can be tough. for example if you are at a very low security status, you can only take only bounty missions and you can only raise your security status and not get any or reduced rewards depending on your status. i can think of a myriad of things to reduce enticement to kill lower level players. nc already has some of those ideas implemented, but not on a scale, where griefing lowbies stops being fun.
I like this idea. EVE:Online has a similar system, where you get destroyed if you consistently kill other players and then go to civilized space.
technically, NC was supposed to have the same kind of thing with Soullight, if you it drops below a certain level, you get killed by every guard around, even your own.
Regarding content expansion. I have actually started writing a new set of missions and expansion ideas. Whether these will EVER get adopted is unknown, but would be cool if they were (a lot of them were from my own game I was creating, but couldn't fund the project).
a note to the devs. i now you probably follow these things closely as well, but i wanted to point out this particular discussion, because it shows what people really want right now. it's a well designed coop-sandbox experience. pvp CAN factor into this. i thought neocron was one of the games that did pvp almost right. i can only say it on an on again. don't go for the noob-in-your-face-pvp-type of game again. it ought to be open pvp in my opinion but in a game, where you probably don't want to be too harsh with death penalties, you have to think of good ways to discourage griefing. that said (again), just read those posts. this is what people really want... and count me in, i agree with most of those comments.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/312306/page/1
if you want players, be creative. surprise us and let us create and destroy.
I would be very surprised if the devs read any players discussing general gameplay on public forums (any devs, and especially KK devs).
personally I think neocron, gameplay wise, is the best mmo that has ever existed. The fact we're still around (though most of us not playing regularly) shows at least something. The things that went wrong in NC is that the original gameplay designers left, and since then nc2 was introduced which according to Kirk Lenke even KK didn't totally agree with, but at least they still had players. What went wrong was the complete abandonment of neocron right in the middle of a balancing round (introducing the mechanism for balancing, but not actually balancing), and a total ignoring of the fact that the game became so riddled with cheaters that it became almost unplayable.
Like a lot of people in these threads say, a huge amount would never have left if the cheaters hadn't taken over, and if the balancing had been done right.
of course there are huge areas that can be improved immensely (see the nc3 threads or even this thread), but those are things that can be improved in patches. The core gameplay of NC however is by far the best mmo ever, and a large part of this is the open PVP. If most of the zones were safezones, the game would be far worse for it, the LE is for people who want to quest without pvp, and it's a much better mechanism than forcing people into pve without only instanced or organized pvp imho
i largely agree with you on that neocron had one of the most fun gaming experiences in any mmo. as i stated, they did pvp almost right.
still you can't put sandbox elements in this game by mere patches. this is a substantial core engine feature. this NEEDS to be done imho. if we know one thing for sure, it's that people are burning through the content of games much faster, than devs can deliver said content. hence, repetition, or grind. this needs to go. for good. you can only achieve this, by giving players the tools to create their own content for them and others to enjoy.
then what do you mean by sandbox? because aside from the zonelines, I think neocron endgame is completely sandbox, but it could be i use a different definition of sandbox
creation / destruction of structures, as outposts, mines, refineries and the like. generally useful things that may be needed for crafting. different sorts of materials and ways to gather them. this needs to be extensible and there need to be ways to combine materials to create new, even volatile ones.
i'd also like to see more impact from the environment, like weather that actually does something besides obstruct sight. which would open even more possibilities for crafting. i don't like the way crafting is only a means for creating weaponry in most games. of course you need conflict and conflict means combat, which means weapons, but there could be other conflicts. maybe even diseases and chemical warfare. this doesn't need to be VERY deep of course, but there should be frameworks to support things like that, so it could be implemented further in the future as well as give players more ways to experiment with different substances in game. there could be way more different bonuses for occupying zones... basically many things necron did right, but much more and with a focus on extensions... maybe even by players themselves to some extend. the environment needs to play a much more important role than just bonus to research in that zone and cover from enemy fire behind that stone.
i probably haven't answered you question exhaustively, but that's the general direction i'd like to see a game go and especially neocron, because i so very much like the setting and atmosphere. just imagine, if you could rent space in the city and open your own bar... more sandbox. upload or even create music that's being played in that bar. of course this is just a wild fantasy, but you know, you asked me... ;).
if i think of a sandbox game, then minecraft comes to mind. i want to stress though, that this game shouldn't shift the level grind to a resource gathering grind, like in a tale in the desert. balancing is everything...
ii already talked about how you should be able to combine skills to "find" new ones, that of course require different "tools" or other game elements to train. this if course can hardly be dynamic, but it should be easily extensible for the devs, even via streaming patches. give people ways to improve or differentiate themselves through experimentation... i could go on, but i hope clarified, what i mean by sandbox.
much clearer, thanks.
from what I see, I think a large part is due to nc's incredible age, but yeah, a lot of that could be made part of nc3. I don't think it's much of a gameplay changer though, more updating and enriching possibilities for endgame, so that's where I think I misunderstood.
I see a lot of problems with balancing those sandbox elements though, if they affect pvp, so in that I think it might actually not be very feasible. While people want to try everything, putting everything you can imagine in a game is not the way to go, constraints are there to focus gameplay.
But yeah, the crafting system could be expanded (although the crafting system in neocron is far superior to any crafting system in other games I've played), and making rewards for opfighting extend beyond mere status (colour on the map) would also be a good idea.
I still think that at the core, those sandbox elements should be optional. Neocron is in the first place a cyberpunk apocalyptic mmo fps, and competition and balance is at the core of it imho.
And I guess the voice of the majority that play to pvp isn't heard in these kinds of threads, because they are simply not interesting in typing up all kinds of imaginative ways of expanding other features ;)
i think that overbalancing is one of the major problems with todays games. you basically take all the fun out. i for once would like to see a radically different approach. a myriad of options that is impossible to balance and limitless overpowered combinations. that would make for a fun ride. because if you got enough overpowered builds, you all of a sudden have the same effect as nerfing everything to hell and still don't get the balance right, only that it doesn't get dull and boring. so i think it's a win-win situation and worth trying.
you might be right though, that neocron should not go astray from it's core gameplay elment: fps.
still, having more complex and vulnerable (even volatile for more fun!) crafting environment gives much more enticement into meaningful pvp. otherwise you can just go and play a plain normal fps. like battlefield.
and please... just throw this endgame mentality into the bin. especially if you want to stress neocrons core game features.
i think that overbalancing is one of the major problems with todays games. you basically take all the fun out. i for once would like to see a radically different approach. a myriad of options that is impossible to balance and limitless overpowered combinations. that would make for a fun ride. because if you got enough overpowered builds, you all of a sudden have the same effect as nerfing everything to hell and still don't get the balance right, only that it doesn't get dull and boring. so i think it's a win-win situation and worth trying.
you might be right though, that neocron should not go astray from it's core gameplay elment: fps.
still, having more complex and vulnerable (even volatile for more fun!) crafting environment gives much more enticement into meaningful pvp. otherwise you can just go and play a plain normal fps. like battlefield.
and please... just throw this endgame mentality into the bin. especially if you want to stress neocrons core game features.
it is impossible to create a myriad of overpowered setups, mostly because that would simply be a myriad of equivalent setups, which is very hard to achieve in the first place since's it's balancing. either a few setups are the best and eventually everyone will use them, or the game is balanced, don't think it's possible any other way imho.
it might take a while to find those setups, and if you do it right, it might even be that those setups can be differentiated while staying balanced, but balancing is something that happens in every single game, ever. Even minecraft ;)
well yeah. i'm just dreaming... i fear that without balancing either everyone would be invincible or instantly dead on sight. :) i just thought of the "there's always a bigger fish" mentality. maybe, just maybe, if you don't make anything too powerful something like that wouldn't happen... still a lot of tweaking and balancing. it's just... i find myself constantly searching for new ways and i'm getting pretty frustrated by cookie cutter builds, which leave you usually no more than two options, how to build your character, or you're not viable. that's BORING in contrast to FUN! i want the game to be intense, atmospheric and fun!
don't you forget to hire max + bruno for your soundtracks again!
well yeah. i'm just dreaming... i fear that without balancing either everyone would be invincible or instantly dead on sight. :) i just thought of the "there's always a bigger fish" mentality. maybe, just maybe, if you don't make anything too powerful something like that wouldn't happen... still a lot of tweaking and balancing. it's just... i find myself constantly searching for new ways and i'm getting pretty frustrated by cookie cutter builds, which leave you usually no more than two options, how to build your character, or you're not viable. that's BORING in contrast to FUN! i want the game to be intense, atmospheric and fun!
don't you forget to hire max + bruno for your soundtracks again!
hehe, it's always good to dream. maybe there is something that can help though. At the moment the fps element means pretty much: 1on1, equal skill: best setup wins. what if the rewards are extended beyond just "im the best because I've killed more", for example, making endgame area defending based on different kinds of setups, like it used to be in css, for example scout+knifes required a totally different playstyle than open symetrical areas.
just throwing it out there, using different environments and goals to reward different playstyles, instead of the current endgame where maps are pretty much the same, and goals are always the same (shooting everyone while defending hackers).
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