View Full Version : Nc3!!!!
Hey Runners!! :D
Been a While...(*Checks activity), over a year in fact, ouch man i had withdrawel symptoms from the best game i have ever played!
Managed to get the interent installed this week, LOOONNNNGGGG story, but i got it now!
Thought i would breeze by my old haunt, see how your all doing at NC, and see this little statement linked from Kirk himself!
Actually we (Reakktor) never have planned to release NC2 as "Neocron 2" it was a decision made by 10tacle back then. Another of their bad ideas tbh.
So: it will be a new Neocron a real Neocron "3".
Take care and keep rockin'
Kirk http://www.hoolinet.com/Portals/0/Captainkirk.jpg
http://blackprophecy.gamigo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7848&page=2
A new NC3? 2-3 years probably, but i will be there to check it out and Re-open my beloved "Logans Emporium"!
Hope all you who remember me are doing well, good to see it's still here anyways! having read around, sorry to say i wont be back in it's current state, see you all after the patch....that works
:D
don't get too excited, he said the same thing over a year ago, together with a promise to patch in less than 3 months, it took over 9 months for them to even show something new, which was a failed patch, and since then we haven't heard anything either.
but like in the other thread, good to see you back ;)
although I "defended" KK in another threat but hey that's just absurd!
Hi guys,
I hear you loud and clear. And I do know that the NC community is waiting for the fixed patch. The patch itself went well and stable while we have tested it inhouse but due to some circumstances it messed the servers up - but you know that.
We still have it on the agenda! (!!!) But right now we want this Baby to fly properly and give the people lot of fun.
Neocron is still in our minds and we have decent plans in regard of an NC3 - and be sure that I will do everything to get these plans real... I would like to start with it soon and we are already in negotiations.
Another thing would be to make at least some money with our current NC2 because this money would go directly to NC3 developement BUT before we take some (small and I mean a small amount) money it is mandatory to get some things fixed in your interests.
I will keep you posted as soon as find more time.
Please also forward this to the NC Comm if you like.
Take care and keep rockin'
Kirk
erm yeah... I mean... posting this here is by all means no big challenge. And why does he post NC related things only in the BP forums?
I have no interest in BP, I do not read the forums there and I think I'm not the only one. well thanks for the link Riddle.
He posted it there because as the busy CEO, he can only take time out to go there, and a Neocron question happened to be asked there.
pic's or it didnt happen. till then i be in WoW.
He posted it there because as the busy CEO, he can only take time out to go there, and a Neocron question happened to be asked there.
thats just bullshit, hell, he could have had his secretary do it.
Jason Parker
13-12-10, 12:22
Instead of making negative comments about the news being posted in the wrong forums I'll rather follow Riddles advice, keep my faith and post a List of things I want to see improved/changed in NC 3.
Dynamic Faction System: And by dynamic I mean dynamic in every way. Factions change their attitude towards each other based on player actions. Even new factions can be foundet by players or clans respectively.
More complex OP Fighting: Make the Outposts bigger. Make conquering an OP a matter of fulfilling different goals instead of just hacking 4 steps at two places. Add turrets. Make it possible to hire NPC Guards.
Make Aiming even more like in MP FPS: More Hitboxes, Hit calculation per shot.
Take Housing one step ahead: Enable Clans to found settlements in the wastelands.
Take your time to finish the rebalancing started with 2.2
Add the player shops
All else I can think of at the moment can basically stay as is just needs to be bug free. I'd copy the whole construction/economy system 1 to 1 from NC2.
don't get too excited
nothing to add
maybe in a few years with luck we can enjoy a nc3, yay for that but there is a 40? 50? page long brainboard thread already here and apparently noone even cares to post this news here, the official NC forum, so I highly doubt they care for any suggestions or read this at all. ^^
hmm maybe I should create a BP forum account :D
argh just ignore me, I crawl back into my cave. Just don't waste too much time here lads ;)
Hey Runners!! :D
Been a While...(*Checks activity), over a year in fact, ouch man i had withdrawel symptoms from the best game i have ever played!
Managed to get the interent installed this week, LOOONNNNGGGG story, but i got it now!
Wow, you got proper internet now? Nice! I'll PM you the current TS details for you.
Kirk Lenke
14-12-10, 14:44
Hi Folks,
I read the forums and believe it or not I am also not that happy with the current status NC is in. AND there was/is a reason we could not fix the patch as promised or even take care of the forums like we should have done.
All we could do is: leave the servers online and give you the game for free.
I do also follow the certain threads what you guys would like to see in a successor to Neocron 2.
We all know what we did right in NC 1 and what we have made not so good in NC 2.
So the basic idea would be to design a new Neocron along with the community, discuss ideas, listen to your thoughts etc. BUT only as long as it stays in a moderate way.
I am also willing to answer your questions but also take the freedom of choice not to answer every question you ask. So if you have questions - go for it.
I hope that I can give you more news soon, cause you deserve it.
Best,
Kirk
Edited: a pic for you guys... start guessing what it is about!
nice concept art, logo works well too. So thanks for finally taking the time to say something on here.
My question, which I think most of the community wants to ask, is, if we can't have the anti-cheat patch, can you please recruit GM's? I get that BP takes up most of the old GM's, but I'm sure there are some people that don't care for space fighting games that can help clean up NC (yes, people are publicly admitting they are banevaders, and nothing is done about it, and this is the easiest to fix)
I'm surprised but still disappointed, Thx for sharing some of your thoughts Mr. Lenke, I have some questions for you:
If you are working on a NC3 which game engine are you gona use?
What time frame it would require to deliver NC beta or full release to the community?
How many people are working on NC3 currently? Or how many will be working?
What would be the MAjor changes in your opinion compared to NC 1 -> 2.2?
Can you tell us the 5 majors additions to the game that you couldn't add to NC currently client?
Would you share your thoughts about a possible Linux and Mac OS X support?
Can you share more of those concept arts from NC3?
Thank you very much for your time and answers
hmm looking at the concept art again, I notice that the logo in the picture is nc 1 logo, not nc3 logo, so it could just as well be a neocron 1/2 concept art relabeled with nc3 logo :S
just my cynical mind i suppose...
Kirk Lenke
14-12-10, 15:30
nice concept art, logo works well too. So thanks for finally taking the time to say something on here.
My question, which I think most of the community wants to ask, is, if we can't have the anti-cheat patch, can you please recruit GM's? I get that BP takes up most of the old GM's, but I'm sure there are some people that don't care for space fighting games that can help clean up NC (yes, people are publicly admitting they are banevaders, and nothing is done about it, and this is the easiest to fix)
Pleasure.
I still have the hope that the "Somehowf#!$up-Patch" can be delivered in Q1 2011 so that NC will be more fun to play instead of playing "who exploits best".
When the patch is out and running well, we will hire more GMs again.
Best,
Kirk
Kirk Lenke
14-12-10, 15:32
hmm looking at the concept art again, I notice that the logo in the picture is nc 1 logo, not nc3 logo, so it could just as well be a neocron 1/2 concept art relabeled with nc3 logo :S
just my cynical mind i suppose...
Nope! 100% no Artwork from NC 1 or 2. Try to figure out the setting.
More or less we look back at NC 1 and what did those days and with which spirit we developed it.
Kirk Lenke
14-12-10, 15:40
I'm surprised but still disappointed, Thx for sharing some of your thoughts Mr. Lenke, I have some questions for you:
If you are working on a NC3 which game engine are you gona use?
well maybe we do stay with Gamebryo but we also take all other engines in consideration.
What time frame it would require to deliver NC beta or full release to the community?
2.5 to 3 years or less or longer ^^
How many people are working on NC3 currently? Or how many will be working?
5-60
What would be the MAjor changes in your opinion compared to NC 1 -> 2.2?
new setting, redesign of good ideas and many more new stuff to come
Can you tell us the 5 majors additions to the game that you couldn't add to NC currently client?
only 5?!
Would you share your thoughts about a possible Linux and Mac OS X support?
We will have Linux support I guess at least I want it. Its all a matter of time and money. But also we take a close look at the Mac base. Possible yes.
Can you share more of those concept arts from NC3?
time will tell - so stay tuned pls.
Thank you very much for your time and answers
You find my answers in you text above.
Try to figure out the setting.
My thoughts would be trying to re-create what everyone is used to would lead to too much "you did it wrong, it was better in the old days!". So my guess would be the only other MegaCity known to still exist... the one Neocron tried to contact and was told to go home from...
Lots of potentially Asian text... that sword...
When the patch is out and running well, we will hire more GMs again.
when the patch is running, GM's are far less necessary than they are now, and if by hiring you mean they somehow get paid, I think there are quite a few people that are qualified and would be perfectly willing to do it voluntarily
Its great to see KK interacting with us! :D I am very glad I jumped on this morning now lol
Question I do have though, will NC3 keep the same factions (possibly add more), same old story line, same weapons (with new ones of course) and same overall feel as NC1\2 ? Will our world change a lot or will it still be familiar to us?
it looks like I suppose the sprawl was portrayed in those books I can't remember the name off (books by gibson)
it looks like I suppose the sprawl was portrayed in those books I can't remember the name off (books by gibson)
Correction, Tokyo II
Its neotokyo or whatever.
the sprawl is in america, neotokyo was a different area afaik, sprawl has domes, so the concept art is prolly more like neotokyo
Thank you Kirk for dropping in, and talking to us. The conecept art has got me quite excited, looks like I need a news section on the THN for Neocron 3 news.
Seems it's impossible to shake that Neocrack feeling. :D
Now my totally player biased questions for Neocron 3 are:-
1. Will there be a Tech Haven in NC3?
2. Will there a Fallen Angels Factions in NC3?
3. Will there be Mechs? :)
I'm sort expecting a no comment, except on question 3. ;)
However I would like to turn my attention to NC2, since we have 2-3 years to wait for NC3.
1. Besides the anti-cheat patch, what are the next plans for NC2?
2. What is being done to improve server stability?
3. What are the plans to try and advertise NC2 to bring back old players/get new players?
4. Are you looking at changing the way you communicate with the community?
james_finn
14-12-10, 16:23
Now that is some very very exciting news! Can't wait to see more information Kirk.
Richard Slade
14-12-10, 17:19
You do know we'll hunt you down and force you to grind a PE in HN if you mess NC3 up, right?
(And YAY we're going to Tokyo!)
And those nay-sayers in here: Sod off
This is by far the best news we could get considering Neocron is by far the best MMO experience (Was, time happened) and you better be fucking excited to not have to see another bleeding Fantasy MMO jammed up your tailgate!
Now where's my hampster violating, Dromsexing, hentai loving brit?
Super Sweet.
Im already spreading the word. .....in my Chinese Twitter... nobody has any idea what it is but people are excited even over here. The artwork rocks btw!
ps Please make zombies in it!!!
Tokyo? Can I get some hawt Japanese mutant chick with 3 boobies to dance for me? :o
Tokyo? Can I get some hawt Japanese mutant chick with 3 boobies to dance for me? :o
isn't that Mars? :p
It's nice to see you on the forum Kirk, I only have a few questions if you don't mind answering them please :)
1) You said '2.5 to 3 years or less or longer ^^' when asked how long you think Neocron will take to maybe get a beta or retail out, how do you plan on keeping the current community occupied for that length of time?
2) Is there any chance we can see some of the old style models coming back, but with better graphics? I really miss the old Plasma cannon and tank skins =)
3) Games such as World of Warcraft are quite set on releasing new content, and have been since release. Recently they released Cataclysm which revamped the old content or 'world'.
Is this something you have thought about with NC3? A remodeling of the zones, adding extra sectors and building on *probably* the best asset KK has with Neocron, the actual city?
Thank you :)
So the basic idea would be to design a new Neocron along with the community, discuss ideas, listen to your thoughts etc. BUT only as long as it stays in a moderate way.
I am also willing to answer your questions but also take the freedom of choice not to answer every question you ask. So if you have questions - go for it.
I hope that I can give you more news soon, cause you deserve it.
I could write a billion pages on that, but the main thing I have to plead. Please. PLEASE! Do not make NC3 a grind-fest like every other bloody MMO. In my humble opinion if you need to make a game a grind-fest then you're doing something seriously wrong.
I think everyone knows that developers make games a grind-fest so players don't get bored, but if you make your game right, people won't get bored anyway.
isn't that Mars? :p
I can't seem to remember, I don't have the total recall I used to :angel:
One question is how would NC3 development be funded? Obviously there always will be the desire to make the game as successful as possible, but the source of the funding effects what pressures there would be on development.
My thoughts on what NC did right:
Atmosphere
Territory Control
Action gameplay
Impressivley open world and vehicles for its time.
And where it went wrong:
The actual specifics of both the action gameplay and the territory control
To grand a scale - in servers that can support 300 people playing at once, far too many factions
Plot-game disconnect. When setting up a world where the storyline is on the edge of changes (eg TT and BT, Reza and erm, the TG guy), not only do those changes need to happen at some point, but we should see them in the game
Risks, rewards and punishments
And then, directions in which a new game should look:
Dynamic content - KK's team size is fairly small, and the money is never going to be WoW like. So planning on being able to generate continuous new content to keep players is flawed. Instead, a good FPS/TPS combat system and some passable NPC AI could keep gameplay interesting in itself, while effort put into a procedural mission generator would give people things to keep doing.
Getting combat right from the start. This doesn't mean that everything should be balanced perfectly. This means that the combat system should be solid and fun, not prone to the lunacy of shooting through walls, at silly angles from guns etc. That there should be a clear vision for class roles. That psi skills probably need to be reassessed.
Powerful GMs. This ties back into point 1 in this list recently. Get things like EGMs and Job Dealers really going. Program in robust tools to let them make something exciting in the game, and give those who earned the trust the power to pull off events that are really exciting. Let them upset the apple cart from time to time.
Keep instancing down. The aforementioned dynamic missions can be created in one-off apartments (and places like that) that vanish when the mission is done. But one of the things I loved about NC (and it ties into the atmosphere point above) was how the place was one continuous world, where strange encounters, alliances and feuds could just happen by chance.
I could of course, write a lot more, but I'm trying to just get across what are (to me) the key points about the game. I'm also thinking of how you'd make another Neocron, not the Cyberpunk FPSMMORPG that I'd make.
Also, how far is this idea really progressed? Is NC3 something that work has started on? Is it something that is certain to be taken through to full production? Merely likely? Just a possible? Or just a pipedream?
There will be much more forum activity now.
I'm surprised but still disappointed, Thx for sharing some of your thoughts Mr. Lenke, I have some questions for you:
If you are working on a NC3 which game engine are you gona use?
well maybe we do stay with Gamebryo but we also take all other engines in consideration.
What time frame it would require to deliver NC beta or full release to the community?
2.5 to 3 years or less or longer ^^
How many people are working on NC3 currently? Or how many will be working?
5-60
What would be the MAjor changes in your opinion compared to NC 1 -> 2.2?
new setting, redesign of good ideas and many more new stuff to come
Can you tell us the 5 majors additions to the game that you couldn't add to NC currently client?
only 5?!
Would you share your thoughts about a possible Linux and Mac OS X support?
We will have Linux support I guess at least I want it. Its all a matter of time and money. But also we take a close look at the Mac base. Possible yes.
Can you share more of those concept arts from NC3?
time will tell - so stay tuned pls.
Thank you very much for your time and answers You find my answers in you text above.
This is very promising, Mr. Lenke! thank you very much, as you can see I'm a fan from Unigine engine from others topics that I've created, Unigine plans to add Mac support in 2011 the source code has an easy cross-platform support at for linux and windows for now and it's damn cheap compared to others game engines. (USD 40K. for a single project...) for a multi project the license goes up to USD 100K (which is the minimal cost for Id tech 4) UE3 is way more expensive and doesn't has support for others OSes.
This is very promising, Mr. Lenke! thank you very much, as you can see I'm a fan from Unigine engine from others topics that I've created, Unigine plans to add Mac support in 2011 the source code has an easy cross-platform support at for linux and windows for now and it's damn cheap compared to others game engines. (USD 40K. for a single project...) for a multi project the license goes up to USD 100K (which is the minimal cost for Id tech 4) UE3 is way more expensive and doesn't has support for others OSes.
Ok...wait a second....sorry but are you some kind of rep for this company? You have been pushing this engine for like 2 years almost. O_o I don't think that KK will go that direction when they have this engine. I'm sure it could be upgraded to meet their needs once BP gets off the ground, and also they will have the engine BP runs on, maybe it can support this too?
yay for nc3, yay for the respond but are there any serious plans for nc2 in the near future?
nc3 is years away so I have to fill the time with nc2 :D
simple question? plans for nc2? patches? next year? maybe after BP release?
or is nc2 on hold and there are no concrete plans with nc2 right now?
like I said before the info nothing will happen doesnt change much :P (suprise) but while the S.T.O.R.M. Bot is with us...
(and should an anti cheat patch close in on us, a mighty banwave should herald it)
ps Please make zombies in it!!!
No no no no NO! No fucking zombies. I love the rotting, shambling, greeny-grey skinned chaps, I really do but they're just getting boring now.
They're fooking everywhere and just aren't as scary as they used to be because of it. They really have become very tacky and to me, any game that isn't primarily zombie based is just screaming desperation by jamming them in somewhere. Oh, and while we're at it, No fecking vampires or werewolves either!
This is very promising, Mr. Lenke! thank you very much, as you can see I'm a fan from Unigine engine from others topics that I've created, Unigine plans to add Mac support in 2011 the source code has an easy cross-platform support at for linux and windows for now and it's damn cheap compared to others game engines. (USD 40K. for a single project...) for a multi project the license goes up to USD 100K (which is the minimal cost for Id tech 4) UE3 is way more expensive and doesn't has support for others OSes.
they have experience with gamebryo, and for which they have an mmo basic infrastructure ready (hell, it's probably part of the engine since gamebryo is used by quite a few mmo's). Why would they go for another engine for which they would have to totally redesign the basic structure?
PLEASE PLEASE KK, use the same engine as black prophecy, so there might actually be a small chance of the engines both being supported for a while (yes, NC's syncing and netcode... just abyssmal, at least nc has not one, but 2 graphics engines....)
edit:
oh and btw, gamebryo is multiplatform
One question I'd like to see answered even if its a half answer..
If and when Neocron 3 beta comes out, can we, the loyal forum members still playing Neocron 2, get a rest assured spot in the beta?
I signed up for the BP beta as soon as it was announced (Like, 5 minutes after the post) and I got skipped. I'll be not only pissed, but hurt if I miss the NC3 beta after how long I've stuck around, and I'm sure others will be too.
the sprawl is in america, neotokyo was a different area afaik, sprawl has domes, so the concept art is prolly more like neotokyo
Everything sounds so 2000AD!
If and when Neocron 3 beta comes out, can we, the loyal forum members still playing Neocron 2, get a rest assured spot in the beta?
didn't you know? nc 1 and 2 were just the beta for nc3, would explain a lot anyway.
I'd like to see WOC removed because its gay, srsly I don't agree some sad git that is happy to shoot at mobs 8 hours a day for a week or more should dominate in pvp. I thought the game was about PVP and not who has spent more time grinding.
I'd much more prefer the lvling system to be changed so that a new player can fight an old player and win due to skill and not lvl. I don't know how the lvling system can be changed but I'll have a think over it, to be honest I'm sick of grindy ass games that require me to sit down and lvl for hours and hours just so I can do what I want and that is end game pvp.
I think the slot system for weapons in Neocron is one of the coolest things in game and I think that could be worked on some more. Like how about increasing the number of slots to a total of 10 being extremely rare and creating new mods for weapons that can be got from high lvl dungeons which are also extremely rare. That would let us create extremely powerful weapons that anyone with the time and ingame money can own with no lvl restrictions. Also removing the 120% cap on weapon stats and allowing players to name their weapons if its a 10 slotter etc.
I also think the LE chip should be removed from the game completely and instead the size of the world is expanded greatly with the inner city areas being extremely noob friendly. Replace the current mission system with a new one that simply sends people to an area where other players are doing the same mission promoting a much better and helpful community. As one moves away from the inner city areas they are open to attack in areas that are out of reach of the law and order but are also presented with much bigger rewards.
I also think some things in Neocron or nothing more that annoying, like having lots of SI when you die and when ever you GR somewhere. I think SI should be scrapped because quite frankly it is just annoying same as parraglue was. Sure you will get people complaining, you can't please everyone but those people should perhaps play chess if they want to wait around until they can get back into the action...
I'd like to see outposts reworked, I'd like the ability to build an outpost along side the ones we currently have, I'd like to see a reason to build and defend an outpost. We had been saying that for ages and ages I think, we wanted factorys to produce parts for weapons etc. So how about we build a weapon then have it researched in a lab to produce some sort of rare weapon, that sort of thing would be cool...
There is a whole lot more that could be done instead of just rewriting the game and calling it NC3... I don't play NC2 I've got frustrated with it, I don't want to be logging in to lvl a spy with drones to get them to WOC only to lom them into rifle. I want a reason to log in, like I'd love to log in and just plot revenge or something because I'm that sort of player, or too check my outpost or something and not just log in to do yet more grinding or zoneline pvp...
wow.... i think i just died, they did respond with a pic and more stuff thats going on with NC. grats to KK for once. Now i can sleep good now while waiting for NC3 or the anti patch. thanks friends!
One question is how would NC3 development be funded? Obviously there always will be the desire to make the game as successful as possible, but the source of the funding effects what pressures there would be on development.
My thoughts on what NC did right:
Atmosphere
Territory Control
Action gameplay
Impressivley open world and vehicles for its time.
For me territory control was rather bland, it was fun for a while but soon it became apparent that there was no real reason to hold territory other than to increase the size of ones epeen and to gloat. One gets more enjoyment out of simply running a riot at a large clans op and killing them all, for me there was never any reason to hold territory or not enough reasons to log in at 3am to defend it. I'd like to see this area in the game massively improved and I mean major changes and added content to make it worth the effort.
I liked the idea of the share prices being effected by what factions own what outpost but it never really worked out to be anything cool did it... There is also a lack of real politics in this game, why the hell should CA an NPC entity dictate what happens ingame? Why can't the players dictate what happens instead? That would add a dynamic storyline that constantly changes making things fresh and interesting.
And where it went wrong:
The actual specifics of both the action gameplay and the territory control
To grand a scale - in servers that can support 300 people playing at once, far too many factions
Plot-game disconnect. When setting up a world where the storyline is on the edge of changes (eg TT and BT, Reza and erm, the TG guy), not only do those changes need to happen at some point, but we should see them in the game
Risks, rewards and punishments
Risks vs reward is broken i'll agree with that, its the reason people tend to sit around in plaza etc. I also hate the fact some LE chipped dude can have all the same end game content as me in a high risk area. If people want those MC5 parts they should not be wearing the LE chip end of story, if I can't kill the LE'er its just not fair at all since they drop nothing if they die and they can be droning away to their hearts content or what ever.
And then, directions in which a new game should look:
Getting combat right from the start. This doesn't mean that everything should be balanced perfectly. This means that the combat system should be solid and fun, not prone to the lunacy of shooting through walls, at silly angles from guns etc. That there should be a clear vision for class roles. That psi skills probably need to be reassessed.
I think combat needs that fast paced feeling back.
Richard Slade
15-12-10, 00:24
I can't seem to remember, I don't have the total recall I used to :angel:
There's my hampster violating, Dromsexing, hentai loving brit!
Now who's up for organizing a Kinder Package?
It's been a while since we said thank you to KK in a mix of brown and white sticky stuff
(And honestly, us ol' timers can expect the earliest invites. Who else knows what Neocron did best and worst? It'd be outright stupid to not use the now... HOLY SHIT SEVEN YEARS?!?!?!
Edit: Oh and I'd also like to whore myself out for NC3, going strong with a few years of working as a CM and now a codemonkey and creative designer for a game company. :D
This is fantastic!
Perhaps the setting is Irata III? I find that idea very intriguing, but I'm hoping that wouldn't mean that NC3 will just be a reboot, completely separate from the previous setting.
Well, I'm sure there's no chance of that; they couldn't call it Neocron if it would only have a loose, story-related connection to it's name-sake.
I'd guess that the only way it could be that is if there's some kind of transport between those places.
I suppose it's most likely that it's Japan.
while i like that he talked to us, why is everyone getting so excited? he announced te same over a year ago... only thing new is one piece of concept art?
hell im happy its still happening but its the same as a year ago, and will take at least 3 years...
hell, he's even said that fuck all will happen with nc2 over the coming years, except maybe the anti-cheat patch at some point in time, and making us pay again...
Richard Slade
15-12-10, 10:38
Gee I dunno?
Because they still hold the game in their hearts and wish to continue making it?
Because it confirms that not all hope is lost?
it's just suprising to see this much enthusiasm now, while it's just a repeat, and last time there wasn't nearly such a response. I had hoped to see some improvement, but the announcement pretty much guaranteed that nc2 will be pretty much left as it is except an anti-cheat patch, which I find actually quite disappointing.
Probably most of the happy people aren't playing the game anymore, I guess then the announcement only contains happy things.
another question for Kirk:
Nc2 would be too expensive to be turned into f2p, will nc3 be f2p or p2p?
Hmm, anyone looked closely at the image, particularly at the birds where the Neocron N is.
It looks like there is some motion blurr there.... interesting! :eek:
Gee I dunno?
Because they still hold the game in their hearts and wish to continue making it?
I think that NC has & will always be part of KK: Emotionally speaking. The same goes for those who play NC.
Because it confirms that not all hope is lost?
Screw hope! She squeals. Just deliver bloody the goods.
It looks like there is some motion blurr there.... interesting! :eek: Is he playing with his sperminator?
The majority of ideas proposed are spot-on. LE removal. Inner city noob friendly (safe) areas, missions push noobs to areas where there are others on similar missions. Reasons to actually OP war. Unique item creation. Dynamic factions (example effect: affecting the prices of NPC bought items).
And so on.
Yup, I can see it too Brammy, looks interesting
New content in NC 3, whatever happened to Tokio? It was supposed to be in the upper left of the map.
Well, I will be waiting :angel:
Neocron 3 will need a server for the french community! We were always there, from 2004 till today, and venus and pandore had a very decent population!
And a lot of the players on venus and pandore will tell you that the atmosphere was better/different there!
And bring back alchemic dreams, with Legba and the french GM team!
Had a thought, although it could be tokyo II, wasn't Irata colonised by the chineese empire... ;)
Mr. Kassad
15-12-10, 16:05
Storyline suggestions GO! :cool:
Jason Parker
15-12-10, 16:28
Storyline suggestions GO! :cool:
I'd prefer a storyline up to the point at which NC 3 starts. From then on: All should be player and GM driven. That's how it was in the good times during NC 1 and that was a huge part of the immersion.
I'd prefer a storyline up to the point at which NC 3 starts. From then on: All should be player and GM driven. That's how it was in the good times during NC 1 and that was a huge part of the immersion.
That would be fucking great if there was only one server, but I don't think that's possible.
Jason Parker
15-12-10, 21:01
That would be fucking great if there was only one server, but I don't think that's possible.
Even with multiple servers in my opinion it should be done this way. Forcing a single player game type of story over a MMO world is pure nonsense and one of the reasons I didn't stick with any MMO as long as with Neocron. Hell all the other games didn't even make me care enough to be active in their forums.
Another thing that should happen with NC 3 is make the parts of the forums that matter ingame fucking readable ingame. One of the huge problems Neocron had amongst others has allways been the fact that about half of the ingame population didn't care to read the official forums.
Oh and another tip: Offer the space for clanpages on your own webspace. Make clanforums seperated subforums of the official forums, forcing them to allways show at least the official announcements. Oh and of course make them also accessible ingame.
I cut it now before this becomes a two page post.
while i like that he talked to us, why is everyone getting so excited? he announced te same over a year ago... only thing new is one piece of concept art?
hell im happy its still happening but its the same as a year ago, and will take at least 3 years...
hell, he's even said that fuck all will happen with nc2 over the coming years, except maybe the anti-cheat patch at some point in time, and making us pay again...
Quit being such a god damned party pooper. If we all want to be happy, let us be happy.
Hmm, anyone looked closely at the image, particularly at the birds where the Neocron N is.
It looks like there is some motion blurr there.... interesting! :eek:
I wouldn't read into that too much. While it could mean that they had that in mind while making it, it could be that that's just how they drew it.
That would be fucking great if there was only one server, but I don't think that's possible.
For speculation's sake, let's say that NC3 will use the same engine as BP. Do we know if BP has one single server?
Also, some people are hoping for a zoneless NC3, do we know if BP uses zones?
Edit: just noticed something in the concept art. The dude in the picture has something else other than his sword hanging from his right hand. Any ideas what that is?
Quit being such a god damned party pooper. If we all want to be happy, let us be happy.
im not trying to make u unhappy!
i just didnt get the excitement over a year old announcement, and would prefer news about things that are relevant now... who knows what ill be doing in 3 years
im not trying to make u unhappy!
i just didnt get the excitement over a year old announcement, and would prefer news about things that are relevant now... who knows what ill be doing in 3 years
In 3 years i'll be playing Neocron... Hell i'm playing it now ;)
Logan you old timer I remember you and just heard this rumor of NC 3. Kirk said to me (in a forum post) that NC was not over. I believed him then and I will believe him now if this is true. I do not think Kirk or the staff believe NC is not worth fixing/rebuilding/using as an add on world/expansion pack for pvp and or building components only found by working NC missions Quests.
Any how, Kirk if you or your staff read this, would you mind when NC 3 is developed and us LOYAL players who had multiple accounts and paid for them until there was payment system issue, and are STILL HERE; are highly considered/allow to be first and or on a non-random selected participants for the NC 3 Beta for a change. (Nice long sentence there)
Some loyalty would be nice. 2003 to present and ongoing is a long time to be around. Obviously, the competition cannot be that good if we/some of us are still here and others continue to come back so you can ban them again.
Once you populate the server again I think all the activity will pay off for PvP
JG
Doc Holliday
16-12-10, 04:57
even the cynics keep comin back. they keep posting on here too even its just to post cynical crap about how this is finally a tiny bit of info comin way too late.
what it boils down to is everyone always comes back. even just to see if theres any news. im here doin it now :) its also properly put a smile on my face. i have visions of a world where neocron comes back to full strength like something out of the neuromancer story by william gibson ( the godfather of cyberpunk )
A neo tokyo setting would rock. east meets west meets future. clever concept. i will keep an eye more closely on the forum i think. good luck with bp guys. thats gonna be the make or break im sure.
Nc people u might wanna consider giving bp a shot some of ya. what ever you spend will only add to the development of NC. its worth some thoughts.
12345
[Comment removed. Reason: Too boring a comment.]
my 2 pence worth in addition to all that's been mentioned before would be that WOC would be based upon not only the existing xp and epic but also game time or number of game days played... (so you cant power level a newb to woc in a day !) and pvp kills !
my 2 pence worth in addition to all that's been mentioned before would be that WOC would be based upon not only the existing xp and epic but also game time or number of game days played... (so you cant power level a newb to woc in a day !) and pvp kills !
why? a lot of people hate leveling and play neocron because of the actual skill needed to compete, instead of wow based games where skill has hardly anything to do with it, just who has the best macros or who has spend enough time leveling/getting special kit.
why? a lot of people hate leveling and play neocron because of the actual skill needed to compete, instead of wow based games where skill has hardly anything to do with it, just who has the best macros or who has spend enough time leveling/getting special kit.
You can't deny that LVLing currently is completely broken though. And since a lot of people didn t like the extra grind for WoC to begin with, i think it's a good idea to have some other mechanic for the activation of WoC.
As long as it's not a grind obviously.
fire points bigs, but if you take away all the leveling etc.. of cron then you may as well play games like modern warfare etc.. where it's just load, shoot, die, respawn, shoot, die... repeat a few times.... bored !
leveling n hunting for rares etc.. does add a lot of longivity to games like cron.
I'm not against leveling, but the fact that it's possible to powerlevel in neocron is one of the only reasons why it's still alive. It's no fun playing a game which is pointless until you've finally reached cap and you can finally compete with other people
and people say woc is broken, but if leveling a char takes about 2 weeks, woc is an extra day... except for pe, which is maybe 3 days extra. People that say woc leveling takes too long, have never done it, cuz its not even close to 10% of the total time leveling
People are prolly not bored to level up per se, they are boring to do the way it is. I mean come on, the most efficient way to level up and make rares with a spy are drones. Drones are fun, but shooting AoE is just that boring, they should have another utility like for a whole team(healing or damageboosting or something fun like that)
Major changes have to be made to PvE, I remember I used to hunt warbots with my libby PE, those are the times I enjoyed doing it because there was some challenge (that you could actually win) and well you had like 2/3 rareparts each warbots (yeah and please stop saying rareparts are rare so they are not supposed to drop that often, this is a fast-action game and there are prolly over 200 items in the DB that each requires average 5/6 parts)
The only reason people have a lot of rareparts right now?
They used to hunt when parts used to drop like crazy in regant on each mobs or in the ceres labs, which was totally unfair for the afterwards players. PvE and leveling is supposed to be a funny thing, not a huge pain in the ass.
Mr. Kassad
16-12-10, 15:22
The only reason people have a lot of rareparts right now?
They used to hunt when parts used to drop like crazy in regant on each mobs or in the ceres labs
Guess what is responsible for the fact that the economy is totally fucked up for a long time? Right... ;)
The dude in the picture has something else other than his sword hanging from his right hand. Any ideas what that is?Dog Tags?
Jason Parker
16-12-10, 15:51
The sword's attached to his leg and he's holding a grappling hook. Maybe we'll ba able to move around town Mirror's Edge Style that'd be awesome.
The sword's attached to his leg and he's holding a grappling hook. Maybe we'll ba able to move around town Mirror's Edge Style that'd be awesome. Maybe its an artistic picture based on a game that has not yet been written. Think of it as those artistic representations for off-plan luxury housing projects that when built turn out to be a little different.
Artistic
http://www.urhahn.nl/image.php?i73w596s1333
After
http://gespot.at5.nl/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/brandvenserpolder6.jpg
:-D
take my stupiod comments with the lunacy these deserve.
Actually, I expect NC3 to be far far better, or in other words, its pretty picture with a purpose to whet your appetites. My appetite has not really been sharpened.
Thank you Kirk for leaving the NC servers on & your comments.
About the pic:
To me, it looks like a Runner standing in Pepper Park 3, looking across the city to the Tsunami HQ tower in the foreground with Plaza in the distance on the left and Viarosso on the right.
...I suspect he's on a mission for faction sympathy...
As for his weapons: I'd laugh if that was the Jones blade he started with and he's packing the gatlin rifle he lomed to for viable leveling to WoC.
But its his stance that tells the story to me: Looking out across the pretty vista, all he really sees through his realization that as only one man in the vast metropolis of corruption is his contempt for the Powers that keep us all unaware of the real history unfolding in the lofty towers and underground bunkers before him.
...Play on, Runner. The real Chessgame has yet to begin...
And even a Pawn can Check-mate, yanno.
*reloads*
Cheers & happy hunting.
hi in neocron 3 can we return yakarma next to typherra thanks
Well, well,i stirred up a hornets nest here! worthy of a sticky!:angel:
Great news for an NC3 on my return to the WWW!
Kirk, I really appreciate your comments in this thread giving us all the knowledge that NC is still in your hearts and minds and on your development schedule!!
It's good to hear that you are not happy about it's current state, and Q1 estimate for a fix is great news and before Big comes a moaning :p.....I want to say that i understand with resources tight, deliverables on BP required, it must be hard to achieve anything on this game!
When the fix comes, i'll be Downloading right away and getting my arse back into Logans Emporium!! Sell all you bloodthirsty cyberpunks some Nasty Weapons to kill each other with :D
Kee[p the Faith....More Concept art please :)
Well, well,i stirred up a hornets nest here! worthy of a sticky!:angel:
Great news for an NC3 on my return to the WWW!
Kirk, I really appreciate your comments in this thread giving us all the knowledge that NC is still in your hearts and minds and on your development schedule!!
It's good to hear that you are not happy about it's current state, and Q1 estimate for a fix is great news and before Big comes a moaning :p.....I want to say that i understand with resources tight, deliverables on BP required, it must be hard to achieve anything on this game!
When the fix comes, i'll be Downloading right away and getting my arse back into Logans Emporium!! Sell all you bloodthirsty cyberpunks some Nasty Weapons to kill each other with :D
Kee[p the Faith....More Concept art please :)
/me moans :p
(never my intention to moan for moaning's sake :P)
PLEASE PLEASE KK, use the same engine as black prophecy, so there might actually be a small chance of the engines both being supported for a while (yes, NC's syncing and netcode... just abyssmal, at least nc has not one, but 2 graphics engines....)
edit:
oh and btw, gamebryo is multiplatform
The MAIN reason they NEED to use the same engine as BP is that we need to be able to fly from BP to NC3 and back!
Basically as they had eluded to way back in NC1 days (flying to irata3 (?)), etc.
dont see why this couldnt be done.
Ok...wait a second....sorry but are you some kind of rep for this company? You have been pushing this engine for like 2 years almost. O_o I don't think that KK will go that direction when they have this engine. I'm sure it could be upgraded to meet their needs once BP gets off the ground, and also they will have the engine BP runs on, maybe it can support this too?
yeah i know i've been a very HUGE fanboy of this engine honestly becasuse they DO support linux for their soon to be released game oilrush ! Ever since i've been phoronix test suit (or PTS for short) on linux i've discovered their benchmarks, which are really cool to test linux drivers for Nvidia and AMD/ATI gfx cards!
Gamebryo would be preferable for KK as they have experience to handle it, BUT which kind of license are they attached to it? a per-project license or is it a multi-project license? If it's a per-project then they would need a cheap but very good engine especially since we still don't know if kk will be funded in order to make NC3 by a publisher.
Anyway Kirk Lenke said that he would like to see a linux support for NC3 in that case Unigine is more feat (or is it fit, correct me on that one plz) than Gamebryo lightspeed.
( hope that i won't create any flaming)
yeah i know i've been a very HUGE fanboy of this engine honestly becasuse they DO support linux for their soon to be released game oilrush ! Ever since i've been phoronix test suit (or PTS for short) on linux i've discovered their benchmarks, which are really cool to test linux drivers for Nvidia and AMD/ATI gfx cards!
Gamebryo would be preferable for KK as they have experience to handle it, BUT which kind of license are they attached to it? a per-project license or is it a multi-project license? If it's a per-project then they would need a cheap but very good engine especially since we still don't know if kk will be funded in order to make NC3 by a publisher.
Anyway Kirk Lenke said that he would like to see a linux support for NC3 in that case Unigine is more feat (or is it fit, correct me on that one plz) than Gamebryo lightspeed.
( hope that i won't create any flaming)
No no, no flaming. And its fit. But, I'm sure we can make a Gamebryo engine game work under Linux. Its just the anti cheat system they put in place that would have to work well with Linux is all.
The MAIN reason they NEED to use the same engine as BP is that we need to be able to fly from BP to NC3 and back!
Basically as they had eluded to way back in NC1 days (flying to irata3 (?)), etc.
dont see why this couldnt be done.
I'm with this guy
setlec, gamebryo is crossplatform, just cant make use directx10
No no, no flaming. And its fit. But, I'm sure we can make a Gamebryo engine game work under Linux. Its just the anti cheat system they put in place that would have to work well with Linux is all.
AFAIK, Gamebryo use directX rendering engine. it would take time to make an OpenGL 3.x/4.x renderer for gamebryo. Also i think that it has a custom made physics, does it? and for cross compilation they would need to implement SDL for input, tweak OpenAL warper.... and to finalize make a *.bin file for the installer making /usr/local/games as default!
setlec, gamebryo is crossplatform, just cant make use directx10
true yet it doesn't support any OpenGL or OpenGl ES based OSes (Mac OS X / linux). PS3 is the closest thing to linux and mac for the rendering engine...
To be fair, discussing what engine NC3 will use seems to be a bit pointless. As you've all seen, there's been absolutely no word from Kirk since the first batch of posts he made basically within an hour of each other.
Let's be honest with ourselves, they did it to shut us up. A little art work and a couple of posts from the boss and everyone's happy, which has worked out nicely because now the community has shut up on the BP forums. They've quietened us down and now it's business as usual.
Jason Parker
17-12-10, 19:06
Luke']... They've quietened us down and now it's business as usual.
Well to stay fair: As the only project generating money at the moment is obviously still in closed beta stage allthough the last official announcement regarding an open beta or even a possible release spoke of november 2010, it's totaly understandable that Kirk isn't checking back on a half hour basis to answer redundant questions.
Regarding the engine Kirk clearly stated that they had not decided on this yet and that gamebryo aswell as a newly built engine aswell as any other engine are viable options at this point as obviously not much more than a few concept arts exist yet.
Having Black Prophecy and it's current state of development in mind I didn't expect to see Kirk posting over here at all.
Can we please submit our suggestions to someone, have them pooled into a general suggestion list (similar to last time) and then have a poll voted on buy us as to what we'd like NC3 to contain?
I have a billion suggestions and I'm sure others do, if you could get an idea of "how" we'd like to play, and what we'd like to see, it may make the game better (or worse) lol
This would be easier than hundreds of pages of suggestions etc.
It could look like this;
"More customisable armour/slots"
Yes
No
Maybe
"Vehicle Mods"
Yes
No
Maybe
etc?
Luke']To be fair, discussing what engine NC3 will use seems to be a bit pointless. As you've all seen, there's been absolutely no word from Kirk since the first batch of posts he made basically within an hour of each other.
Let's be honest with ourselves, they did it to shut us up. A little art work and a couple of posts from the boss and everyone's happy, which has worked out nicely because now the community has shut up on the BP forums. They've quietened us down and now it's business as usual.
yay, finally not the least optimistic in the thread :D
yay, finally not the least optimistic in the thread :D
thats cause I hadn't posted yet :p
NC3? Now there's something I never thought would happen. I'm still skeptical, though. Is this going to be an entirely new game built from the ground up that continues where NC1/2 left off, a reboot of the current Neocron, or simply the same game with heavy updates?
I saw you said you'll be using the Gamebyro engine, but honestly that engine is already starting to show its age, releasing a Gamebyro-engine game 2-3 years from now it would already make it look outdated.
How is this being funded with so few devs? Going by what you said Kirk, it seems you're making NC3 a game "for the fans, by the fans". I think community interaction where decisions/polls can affect the development of the game is amazing. So then I assume this is just going to be a small release, we're not looking at any sort of boxed retail releases, heavy marketing, etc?
Can you guys consider having community members help with the process regarding things like UI design, models, skins, etc. There's some pretty talented people out there.
William Antrim
18-12-10, 14:56
Make store bought and reconstructed weapons more viable. Store bought should run at say 80% of max dmg value. Reconstructed run at 100% of weapon damage and rares give 105% to reflect rare value.
Woc should be aesthetic only. Implement some form of gauging system to "earn" woc points. IE x number of runners killed by your team in a battleground sector (ops etc) or in team pvp. This value should be the only one used for woc. Then keep (maybe redo) the quests for woc so that people have some nice end game content to play with but it is not needed by the casual player.
Woc may well be easy to get in 2-3 weeks or whatever the comment was earlier but its not that simple to your average newly capped runner. When youve played the game for x number of years youre going to know all of the tricks of the trade obviously but when youre new (which this game direly needs) it doesnt compute like that. We dont need experts, we need new players.
Dribble Joy
18-12-10, 16:46
IE x number of runners killed by your team in a battleground sector (ops etc) or in team pvp. This value should be the only one used for woc.
How would this system remain from being horrifically abused?
A special team type which would have to declare a fight against someone else? Who would have to agree? What if they didn't and just started fighting because they don't want you to get any WoC points? Force them to sign up to this system in order to participate in team PvP?
Sounds a lot like a certain game I know. Any kind of in-game benefit from kills would have to be so tightly regulated that it would wreck the free form PvP aspect of NC that we all know and love.
I agree though, WoC should not be a necessitated element of NC's end-game.
like said before, if you believe that woc is nescesary for endgame, you are mistaken, it is simply because you are not skilled enough to kill others, not because you don't have woc. I don't use woc on both my tank and my spy (except ak occasionaly but usually dissy), my ppu only uses woc pa because of a slight increase in heal ticks and shield strength, but it also makes me far easier to kill because i'm slow.
the only class that needs woc to be en par with other classes is the pe, the other 3 classes have no such need, the tank doesn't even come close to requiring woc, the spy only uses ak, but dissy is just as viable, ppu's and apus can use woc pa's, but its only slightly better and has a big negative as well.
as to leveling, if you have leveled to skill 100, it's about 10% extra. Even with rifles, if you leveled with rifles to level 100, it should take about 2 weeks of constant play, with means an extra day or 2 of woc leveling.
also, if you're leveling with for example drones, you need about 70m xp overcap anyway to be able to lom, why not go that 30m xp extra so you have woc? its not that hard.
the only class that's fucked concerning woc is the pe, but this is not because of woc, but because of the lower dex cap in relation to woc.
blaming it all on woc is far easier than admitting you're simply not good enough. Getting so tired of that excuse... there's hundreds of things wrong with nc, but woc is not one of them, or at least should be the least of our worries (aside from lowering woc requirements for pe, and adding woc weapons to apu, ppu and melee)
Doc Holliday
18-12-10, 23:01
like said before, if you believe that woc is nescesary for endgame, you are mistaken, it is simply because you are not skilled enough to kill others
i switched off reading the rest of the post right there where the quote ends.
Some of us remember the days when woc didnt exist and there was more variation (i wont say balance) within the game. woc makes cookie cutter. anyone who doesnt use it uses a small number of other weapons which compete on the same sort of level. that forces choices rather than encouraging diversity to flourish. NC1 did it better in that respect.
Mr. Kassad
18-12-10, 23:55
Woc may well be easy to get in 2-3 weeks or whatever the comment was earlier but its not that simple to your average newly capped runner. When youve played the game for x number of years youre going to know all of the tricks of the trade obviously but when youre new (which this game direly needs) it doesnt compute like that. We dont need experts, we need new players.
Thats exactly the point. We have new runners now and then. But the problem is that those feel awfully lost if they do not get offered a hand or two.
The helping hands are not the problem in NC. There are always some of them around. (at least on Mars it was like that)
The problem is that if you lead your trainee around the normal level spots and tell him the necessary steps, you sooner or later will run in some idiot bragging about how he caps in 2 days and how stupid the "noob" ist for doing it the normal way.
When your trainee asks how this guy archived this you have the choice of telling him or not. And of course the choice of telling him HOW or not...
Depending on how talkative the bragging guy is and how you handle the situation your trainee will sooner or later hear about all those "great and nice" exploits and stuff.
My experience shows that there are 2 main reactions to this:
1) The newcomer quits with the comment "If I can already exploit like this I don't want to image what the others do" (a very reasonable reaction imo)
or
2) He adopts the exploits... One exploiter more in this game. Not exactly what I am looking for. (Especially because I think early exploit experience may lead to future cheating...)
Only very few new runners stay to do it the "hard (normal) way".
And that's a BIG problem that prevents lots of new players to come and stay.
i switched off reading the rest of the post right there where the quote ends.
Some of us remember the days when woc didnt exist and there was more variation (i wont say balance) within the game. woc makes cookie cutter. anyone who doesnt use it uses a small number of other weapons which compete on the same sort of level. that forces choices rather than encouraging diversity to flourish. NC1 did it better in that respect.
your problem, the rest of the post was a proper argued statement about how you were wrong about woc.
Woc doesnt make cookie cutter, its the fact that only a few rare weapons are good, and the rest are all bad. Hell, 80% of the woc weapons are useless too. name one woc rifle thats good aside from ak? name one woc pistol other than xbow or bhg9? hell, name a single tank weapon?
the problem is in the "balancing", not woc. there are more viable rare weapons than woc weapons, hence, your argument is wrong, as saying woc makes cookie cutter depends on the fact that woc has to set the standard, which it doesn't. hell if you play the game, if you see a woc weapon aside from ak, it's either an ass using the woc rocket launcher, or a pe.
WOC is not the problem, they are just as crap or good as rare weapons. Hell without woc, there would be absolutely NO VARIATION, as only the dissy would be viable, none of the other rifles. WOC makes the current game LESS cookie cutter than without it.
That said, of course the changes to the weapons and damage since woc was introduced have fucked it up, but not woc in itself, as tanks, spies and monks are exactly as or more viable than woc variants.
William Antrim
19-12-10, 00:32
I read your post, I still think your point is moot biglines.
Its not what woc is right now, its what they intended it to be thats the problem. If it was "fixed" and working as intended then it would cause more harm than current.
Your argument is in essence the same as mine. Im saying woc should not be in ANY FORM combat related. Youre saying woc is fine..... im not sure why but woc is shit how ever you look at it.
IF it was working as intended and going to be the be all and end all of pvp as it was originally intended it would be worse than it is currently. There shouldnt be an endless grind to get a "good weapon" for pvp.
Thats what everyone hates about woc, nothing to do with the half arsed version we have currently that you seem to be championing and banging on about how regular rares are ok etc.
EVERYONE pretty much wants to see a balanced form of combat across the board i think.
WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!! you all need to stfu. Just go get aim and stfu. i use a pistol tank unwoc in p2 and kill kids for fun. Get skills and come at me bro.
derretimos
19-12-10, 11:36
WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!! you all need to stfu. Just go get aim and stfu. i use a pistol tank unwoc in p2 and kill kids for fun. Get skills and come at me bro.
cool story bro tell it to someone who gives half a shit
now back on topic.
Hell-demon
19-12-10, 12:12
Neocron 3?! NEVER!
Then again Duke Nukem Forever gets released next year :rolleyes:
cool story bro tell it to someone who gives half a shit
now back on topic.
Actually, I thought he was pretty much on topic!
Neocron 3?! NEVER!
Then again Duke Nukem Forever gets released next year :rolleyes:
i don't recall where i've read that Bethesda softwares got the right for Duke Nukem franchise... and it said that it would use Id tech 5 as game engine.
Dribble Joy
19-12-10, 17:49
(I actually started writing this before my previous post)
/set DJ_ramble 1
Firstly, Wheee! Good news. Lick your face.
Now to the nitty gritty.
Not sure where to start, so I might as well start with:
Starting impression:
MC5 was a good concept, but suffered from a poor implementation.
Actual learning scope was little better, if not worse than simply going straight to the main world. With low newbie populations the place is a ghost town and as a result failed to offer the safe 'play pen' environment for new players to grasp the game's basics with people of the own (lack of) experience.
The inclusion of a (optional) linear tutorial quest/sequence, prompted info screens (on a scale above that which are allready present), various info-NPCs each giving advice on different game aspects or a similar method of explaining the mechanisms on which the game operates would ease people into NC's steep learning curve (which I see no reason to lower). They could then practice in the beginning area or leave, as they see fit.
Also, the whole story aspect of the area is completely unexplored. Your character has been kidnapped, brainwashed (successfully or not) and has awoken in a top secret NC facility.
Yet nothing is made of this. It's never followed up. There's no avenue of questioning or investigation for the player to discover. This is a perfect opportunity to add depth to the players interaction with the game world and a long running story element that can follow the player's character right from the start.
A good example would be the two recent Fallout games. There's a trail to follow that directly involves the character, with deep emotional effect. This ties the character, and by extension the player, to the setting of the game world much more engaging manner.
Of course there's the option to completely forgo this and strike out on your own, a chance to start again from the character's old life for whatever reason. This in itself can convey a sense of freedom and lack of ties, operating outside regular society (which is what most runners do).
Which brings me to:
The Mission System:
The one big drawback to the NC mission system is the fact that only one mission can be running at any one time. In just about every other RPG, MMO or not, the player can perform and track multiple quests at once. I don't see why NC can do the same thing.
The other main issue is the mission system available from the CityComs. Though this is mainly a matter of re-writing and re-organisation.
The Quick Kill missions:
Firstly (purely as an example), why are Launcher missions set as Very Hard? I would have thought that something like Warbots or upper level fire mobs would be better suited here.
There's also problems with the naming of various Quick Kills, such as Amok Copbot, which doesn't actually exist as far as I am aware, only Mad Copbots (I must confess I haven't taken said mission and killed any Mad Copbots to find out if it's simply a naming issue, so it might work, but I am guessing it doesn't).
Another aspect is that the number of kills forces the player to run back and forth to the CityCom to grab new missions, which is boring and breaks up the leveling process in a manner that is not conductive to enjoyment.
'Rolling' quick kills, that award a single cash/xp bonus upon each individual kill, without a minimum or maximum number of kills would be better for longer durations of leveling.
Both could of course remain, Quick Kills could be 'Specialist Extermination Contract', offering higher xp/nc per kill, but require higher symp, whereas the rolling missions could be more like regular jobs, something like 'Vermin Regulator Post', requiring lower symp and with lower overall reward but less intrusive to game play.
Also, the mission selection system is horribly random.
Now this can give the impression of there being a large list of ever changing missions being available, but cycling through them is not fun, only tedious.
Setting out the mission system into categories like the navray would allow people to find what they want more easily. A small amount of random selection for specific jobs to cycle through would still give the impression of a fluid job system without being frustrating.
The next issue is that the missions available have little or no relevance to the faction in question. Neither story/background wise or geographically.
CM for example have Raptor missions. Aside from the fact that raptors are only spawned by terroraptors, they aren't found anywhere near MB, don't pose any threat to CM and if anything help keep TG busy.
Then there's the non-quick kill missions. Which, though by nature are repeatable and therefore need a degree of suggestion towards the routine, are rather bland; They hold no depth, a sense of importance or meaning towards the faction, even if they are only short, off the cuff jobs. A few snippets of dialogue can go a long way.
And then of course with have the quest system, independent of the CityCom system.
There isn't much intrinsicly wrong with this, it's more a matter of the scope and scale, Ie. Not enough of both.
I've allways felt that there should be missions starting NPCs everywhere. Big quests, little quests. It all adds to the atmosphere of the game world and gives people more things to do aside from grind when they aren't PvPing.
In addition, I feel that there should be greater scope for mission based xp gain. Perhaps even an integral part of the leveling process (though optional, not forced). Grinding xp from missions is worse than grinding it from mobs, at least there you're doing something that at least appears constructive. While the small missions from the CityCom are OK for lower level characters, they quickly become aggravating for higher level ones. A range of quests for all types of characters (tradeskill, tank/PE/spy/monk, combat, investigation) that provide high xp rewards would provide another avenue for leveling and again, a greater degree of immersion.
Relationships, Faction Diversity and Faction Membership:
I've allways considered the SL system to be rather ham-fisted and yet at the same time impotent. It has little real effect on a character and a measure of right and wrong in a post-apocalyptic cyber-punk setting seems rather out of place.
My opinion has allways been that the SL system should be scrapped and faction sympathies be expanded greatly to nearly all aspects of runner life. This would again create a more in-depth and inclusive experience of the game world.
Shop prices, GR access, GR price, red/yellow/green appearance to other players, guard reaction, quest access, quest reward level and all manner of routine interactions that the player/character is involved with.
Also there should be greater scope to gain and loose symp other than the CityCom missions and player killing. I still think that NPC kills should effect symps, though I'll concede that this is very open to abuse. However I think that this can be controlled by making symp hard to increase, but very easy to lower. After all, NC is a world where respect is hard to garner, but easy to loose. NPC level affecting the relevant symp gain/loss would also help. Killing a load of low level faction NPCs (shop owners for example) would get you little increase, loose you a lot in other areas, and piss a lot of other people off. Killing several high level ones would be more dangerous, but take longer, increasing the risk of reprisal from other players (a turret death style warning on the faction channel would be good).
The factions, aside from their FSMs (which I'll get to later), epic, HQ locations and supposed area of influence, are actually not that dissimilar. Aside from the titles below their names, your enemies aren't all that different.
A slight tangent now, but it's relevant to the next bit.
What exactly is a runner? Is every player character a runner?
The first question, as I see it, is that runners, coming from the Shadowrun influence, are not corporation employees. They are temporary contractors who take jobs from whoever they happen to fancy working for at the time. They have no direct loyalty (other than to their master's wallet) and operate outside of the usual social structure.
Of course, as a runner takes (and completes) more and more missions for any given faction, they will bring more and more attention to themselves, both from that faction and it's enemies. They can choose to either carry on as they are, free and independent but without support, or join as a full employee, with all the benefits and restrictions that entails.
Then we have to ask if a full employee is in fact a runner any more. Could there in fact be two 'stages' or types of employment. A 'faction runner', someone who does the faction's dirty, yet (potentially intentional) visible work and odd jobs that require a higher degree of trust and support and a full employee who attends to the faction's more delicate inner workings and important roles.
As to the second question, it depends what the player wants. Should there not be scope to choose whether or not to be a runner? How much does faction membership define a character? Should faction membership be enforced?
In essence I think that not only should there be a more defined difference between the factions in how they operate, their goals and how they go about this but also that this should influence player life in a much more intrinsic nature.
This could be manifested in a range of things. Symp affects (as mentioned above), zone bonuses dependant on faction, discounts on certain product types (beyond simple symp effects), common mission types (sabotaging other factions, assassinating other faction NPCs, etc.) and of course access to items. This would all give a greater faction identity.
In addition, I think there should be a real scope for factionless play and varying levels of involvement with any given faction. From those unrelated contractors, to faction runners and full faction members. Right from character selection the option to be a complete neutral or a full fledged member (or anywhere between) would allow people to make a more individual choice about who their character is.
Of course this could be altered at any point. A free runner may want to or end up performing more missions for one faction or through a series of events find themselves with enemies and/or inadvertently impressing someone. They could either:
Smooth things out, return to neutrality.
Remain a free runner, but one who obviously has a preference for a given faction.
Join as a 'faction runner', afforded some respect/protection but with greater responsibilities.
Work through the latter and garner enough respect to join as a full member with all the benefits, duties and expectations that entails.
It would be quite possible to go back down as well.
Then we have to ask how clans and PvP enters into all of this.
Should clans only be faction member organisations? Surely if factionless play is intended to be as integral as factioned play then clans have to be possible at all levels of faction involvement.
Factionless clans (leaning or not towards any given faction) would also appeal to those players that have little wish to be part of a faction.
I might not like it, but most people simply don't care what faction they are in so long as they can shoot people and have OP fights. This would allow them to 'go rogue' all they wish without annoying their faction colleagues. Of course they would find that things are more expensive, movement is restricted and people don't like them much, but then this is still an MMORPG after all.
Dribble Joy
19-12-10, 17:50
Game World, Item Distribution and Mobs/PvE/Vehicles:
On the first part, my main concern is not the size or quality, but again how it's experienced.
One feature that seems lacking is travel.
Now I know people don't want the kind of tedious travelling found in Eve or WoW, but the GR network is too convenient, conventional travel is not a viable alternative.
GR cost is capped at 4k, which for a low level char is a lot, but quickly it becomes a trivial amount. Factoring in character level, symp with the destination GR's owner and removing the distance cap on the cost of GRing would go some way to not only provide a cash sink but also an impetus to walk or get a vehicle. Cross wasteland shuttles might also be useful (though slow and possibly expensive for low level runners).
Allowing more than apartment to be tagged on the GR might be useful, though the discount for GR travelling to apts would have to be reviewed. Though given the outlay on the cost of owning multiple apts, still less than regular travel.
Missions can also help people move around in the game world more, simply be requiring them to go to different places. Not simply there and back again, but a quest's plot could involve moving around an area or along a path through the game world.
The more people move around, the more likely they are to meet each other, for better or for worse. This means you are going to get more player interaction, people might set up all manner of services in high traffic areas, others would want to hunt enemies (or anyone who walks) and others might want to stop the latter. The OZ station is a classic example, with people going in and out
On item distribution I think there's a number of issues that especially affect starting players and those leveling.
The distribution, access to and availability of items should help to create a believable world. Where there are companies and organisations and other groups producing and/or selling items. It should also provide a consistent, intuitive and largely simple framework for players (especially new ones) to acquire items.
The main problem is the location and purpose of the various smugglers around the game world. Many seem pointlessly random. Plus there's many 'normal' weapons that can only be found on these smugglers. Where did the items come from in the first place?
It would make more sense if the smugglers sold the same items as the regular shops (primarily talking about weapons/spells at this point), but for less and of lower quality.
They wouldn't be affected by the same sympathies as the regular vendors, giving access to other factions. Of course they could be in more dangerous/hard to access areas and/or require a small quest to activate.
More quest rewarded items would be nice too. Though preferably non-standard items, general gear I feel should be easily available from vendors. That said, higher level 'general' equipment vendors could require a small quest to allow access. An example might be the shop managers asking for a small job to be done before they sell you TL150 tools, level 2 imps or whatever.
Quest rewards could range from low level oddities, weapons, clothes and experimental items all the way up to high level end game items, like the NCPD/FF/Merc chips.
This would all also increase player trading, some people might not have the symps required to access a vendor (or would pay a lot more than normal), creating a smuggling network. Especially with the travel involved.
As to the FSMs, I generally don't find too much wrong with the system itself, though what's available to each faction again seems rather arbitrary and often not in keeping with the character of the faction.
Black Dragon selling PEPA? If there was some story about them stealing the blueprints it wasn't mentioned and nothing is mentioned by any BD NPCs currently.
Tangent selling eyes? Was this simply to give them something and not have too much at BT?
City Admin selling Spy PA? Wasn't this a Tangent invention?
City Mercs selling backbones?
This list goes on.
Now this is meant to be an overall deconstruction and analysis without too much of what I would personally do (ha!), but here's something of what I'd do with the FSMs:
All in addition to the usual MNPU parts, clan apts and cst licenses.
CA:
Level 3 Freeze weapons (crowd control).
Special forces plasma wave.
TL 100 plasma rifle (CA only, a kind of toned down 'agent' version of a Copbot rifle, 120 stats?)?
TT:
Level 3 plasma, laser, pulse laser, plasma wave, raygun, assault rifle, SMG.
BT:
Level 3 implants (all but Psi).
PP:
Level 2 and Experimental Hearts.
Implant Parts.
New range of drugs and/or high level medkits.
NExT:
Combat Ground Vehicles, Observer Prototype.
Vehicle Parts.
DRE:
Level 3 low tech melee weapons? (for beating up tenants quietly rather than shooting them)
Unfurnished Plaza and Via Rosso apts.
Level 3 Plaza and Via Rosso apts.
Certain unqiue furniture items.
TS:
Level 3 street rifle, auto pistol, shotgun and nailgun.
Level 3 Pepper Park 1 apts.
Unfurnished Pepper Park 1 apts.
BD:
Level 4 drugs.
Level 3 grenade launcher and flamer.
Level 3 Pepper Park 2 apts.
Unfurnished Pepper Park 2 apts.
CS:
Level 3 Pepper Park 3 apts.
Unfurnished Pepper Park 3 apts.
Level 3 Psi implants.
Level 3 and 4 monk PA.
Level 4 Psi armour.
FA:
Level 3 Tech Haven apts.
Unfurnished Tech Haven apts.
DoY Hovercarrier, Gliders.
Level 3 and 4 Spy and PE PA (they stole the plans at the start of the JOB plotline).
TG:
Level 3 fusion weapons.
Level 3 and 4 Inquisition armour.
DoY raygun weapons.
Level 3 Canyon apts.
Unfurnished Canyon apts.
DoY Hoverbomber
CM:
Level 3 gatlin and rocket weapons.
Camo PAs.
Level 3 and 4 Tank PA.
Unfurnished MB apts.
Level 3 weapons would come at a much higher quality than the regular shops (around 105%) but also as a BP. This would allow a quick purchase or a tradeskiller to get the BP to build a better version.
Onwards...
I don't see any need for there to be any more or less mob dropped items (though WBs could do with higher drop rates and fire mobs slightly less), people who don't want to farm can leave it to those who do. Which brings me to mobs.
In general I don't mind the PvE system NC has, though it can get a little boring.
This is mostly due to people killing the same thing over and over due to a lack (perceived or not) of viable leveling targets.
Regants is a prime example. I've seen /10s down there because it's so easy.
The other problem is the rather simple AI, and how it's essentially the same for all mobs.
Now I am not suggesting anything like the mobs you get in WoW, with the specific methods required to bring them down, but a little variation in behaviour would be nice.
Another thing I found a little puzzling is the cash reward for PvE kills. It doesn't matter who you are, you get given money for killing them. From who? Your faction? NCPD?
I've allways felt that the cash reward should be scrapped, and the value of loot be increased. Not only would this lower the amount of cash in the system (as most people wouldn't bother selling everything that the mobs drop), it would make missions a more viable/equal means of income to those who don't or can't hunt. This can all be supported with the mission system.
Vehicles.
There's generally three areas vehicles have problems; PvP, PvE and the roles they play relative to the other vehicle types.
Working backwards, there's often not much reason to use some vehicles over others. The Hovertech for example is slower than at least one vehicle (the quad, no really) when it should be the fastest, even faster than some fliers. The Reveller is allways taken over the regular chaincraft. The bikes are rarely used at all, as are most of the gliders.
I don't want to bash on the quad too much, but it really is too good in too many areas. It's insanely fast, cheap (both to repair and aquire), handles well and you can't loose it.
It's intended as a starter vehicle, rather than something everyone uses all the time. If it was slower and the other low level vehicles were cheaper then there would be a greater choice of personal transport.
I've also often wondered if low level vehicles should have VHC requirement or not, but I'm unsure.
Vehicles for PvE are generally allright, though it's invariably the rhino (and the laser version at that, though the raygun version is just plain bugged). Modifying vehicles would greatly enhance other options for PvE, a prime candidate would be the regular chaincraft. The option to replace the gun with a number of support modules (GoGu, another seat, bigger weapon) would give it an advantage over other vehicles, especially the Reveller.
As for PvP, a recent thread has out-lined how bad they are. The cost, poor performance and ironically their fragility make people leave them at home.
I don't really want to see OP fight become tank battles, but vehicles should be a viable part of team PvP.
Skills, implants and diversity/variation
I enjoy the skill system, it works, and it's an integral element of what make NC, NC.
However when it comes to a number of the more non-standard items, it's use as requirements can adversely affect the rest of a character's setup.
One example is Stealth.
Stealth uses TC, which is fine if you're a high tech weapon user, but if the character uses low tech weapons, it's a skill sink that detrimentally affects their combat effectiveness, putting them at a disadvantage to high tech users.
A more extreme example would be many of the nanite tools. The IMP requirements have such a serious impact that many people simply don't use most of them. This is compounded by the fact that those who do, are loosing more than they gain from their use.
A long time ago I had an idea for a second set of skills. The closest system is the Perk system found in the Fallout games of late (again).
A similar method, where one Perk or Special Skill point (or whatever you want to call it) would be gained say, every 20 levels in the mainskill. Each mainskill would have it's own set of special skills.
These could be used to free up the skill system to allow the addition of a much wider variety of unusual items and tools that the sub-skills have difficulty managing.
For example, under either INT or DEX, you might have something like Advanced Tool Use (ATU) and Stealth and most higher level nanite tools might require ATU +1, and the Obliterator might need ATU +2 but none would require the TC/IMP requirements.
The PSI AMP element (which is something of the inspiration for this) could be greatly expanded, with some spells needing PSI AMP +2 or even more. This could give a better choice regarding the Gaya glove. The CAG gloves offer higher sub-skills, which would improve the performance of spells, whereas the Gaya glove could increase PSI AMP further, meaning more special skill points in other areas and/or higher level spells but lower performance.
Of course the special skills could do many other things. For example, add flat bonuses to subskills (for example 'Vehicle Master', which could have say, a +15 bonus to VHC, this would allow the character to drive basic vehicles without skilling points, but with less special skill points to spend).
And Dual Wield of course :p.
WoC would do similar things, and aside from requirements, could provide a number of cosmetic effects as well and abilities that have no affect on end game PvP.
This would allow a much more free and optional system with greater scope for new items.
With the Gaya glove example from above in mind, there's a big problem with the current implant system that directly affects setup choice and the diversity it currently lacks.
The first main problem is the skill/effect ratio. Increasing a skill, even by large amount, even in PvE (let alone PvP), has little real impact on the way a weapon performs or how much damage is resisted.
The second is that the implants that add the most combat skills are also the ones that generally add the most main stat.
This means that as you add sub skills, you're increasing the mainstat as well. Given that TL affects damage, there's no reason why not to go for a higher TL weapon. The PAs fit into this area too.
This is compounded by the fact that there's not a huge range of these implants, so the rest are invariably filled with defence ones.
The end result is that not only do you not have a range of possible setups for each weapon, most people end up with the same weapon, implants and by extension armour. Cookie-cuttering. All made worse by the flat skill/effect ratio and the inherent imbalance of the weapons themselves.
If the implants with the high mainstat bonuses (CCP, DIP, SF, SWAT for example) had much lower sub-skills, there were more imps like the Targeting CPUs and the Co-Ordination Advancers, more defence implants and the effect of skills was more pronounced, there would be a far greater variation and diversity of viable setups.
One last thing, which also is derived from the last section; Weapon ammo mods.
The amount of primary damage is such a large proportion that in PvP, the secondary dmg type doesn't allways make much difference. You often see peoples setups with a huge block of energy/piercing with not much in xray, force and poison (people usually only speccing fire for the times they come up against a dev user).
If secondary dmg did around 60% of the dmg, people would consider the other dmg types. Plus it would make ammo mods much more important in PvE where the current difference with many mobs isn't great.
/set DJ_ramble 0
I think NC3 will be announced official to public but it seems they're right in the pre-production (at least I hope so) so there is nothing to announce than "hey we develop a third neocron!". That's no good PR if shouted from the rooftops. So, maybe, they decide to show us, the nc-community, this piece of work, not to pacify us but rather inform us like "hey guys, all neocron fans hold on to it, we're building a sequel!"
I think, without kidding and being ironic, the release will be in 2015.
How about timed battles to give control to a certain faction / clan control over a specific area which gives people in that area from that faction / clan an uber buff for as long as that faction holds the area? Every 8 hours or so an alarm rings and war breaks out, a massive robot monster appears in faction colours for each faction and the aim is to keep your robot alive whilst destroying the other factions robots. The robot still alive at the end is the winner and that faction controls the area.
Of course, to prevent one faction from becoming over-populated and never losing, the winning robot doesn't recover it's HP to 100% making it easier to take out that robot, the robots can also fight back (its Japan, we expect killer robots, and Japanese hookers with weird tentacle fetishes).
You can also have your op wars, the more ops a faction controls the more powerful their robot becomes, control of different types affect how powerful the robot is in a set area, like you can capture an op to give it shields or more armour, better weapons and stuff, and large clans would have to decide between protecting their ops, fighting in the robot war or taking advantage of the uber reward for winning the robot wars.
With something like that you might start to see more co-op between the clans and factions, two weak (but allied) factions may decide to team up to protect one robot and destroy others, and having same faction wars would be bad, it'd give other factions a bit of an advantage if the two clans were killing each other at the robot wars, and it happens every 8 hours! Lots of PVP, lots of death, lots of boobies.
This announcement has motivated me to go home tonight, fix my pc and reinstall NC 2.
NC 2 will be installed on my PC too. Expect Profit on Plaza 1 soon.
which leads me to my favorite point
Dont underestimate the value of a good Tradesystem.
It was priceless to hang out endless hours on Plaza 1 doing buisness in a game where Tradeskills were needed, and not only a footnote to all the Uberitems that could be found in the world. I know its a PvP Game first, but there are quite some players that enyojed the options for Traders at least as much.
Thanks for giving us hope :D
"More Profit , with Profit !" Man not seen you in an age buddy, my all time favourite barter :)
now that you mentionn it i was thinking of installing the old NC for Xmas as i have 10 days off!
see yah in P1 :D
DJ - Awsome post and i did read it .....most of it ;)
If its Idea day well here are mine
Well if it is in Neo Tokio then i want to say just One word
GODZILLA!!!
From time to time a Giant monster could attack the city and literally lay waste to it. (appa`s get destroyed and so on) In that case everybody has to Band together for a while to fight this common threat.
Also there could be a "Godzilla Insurance" If your appartment is close to the seaside u can get an insurance in case ur appa gets squished. More stuff u have in ur appa. More higher the Cost (that would make the DRE Storage room much more importend too. To stash away the really valuable things.)
There should be a great reward for the clan/individual who does the most damage to it.
But yeah that could work in NC3
What also could work are Zombie`s
I mean real Ramero Style zombies. There should be always some zombies in some areas in the game (outzone) but people have to check there sometimes and Clean up the mess from time to time so they dont grow in numbers. (doubling their numbers every day or so)
If they do well...they can invade the inner city sectors and again lay waste to the city. Also if ur killed by a zombie 10 new ones should spawn. Or u urself become a Zombie till somebody puts u out of ur misery (the Server controls u for a while). However it is this kind of catastrophies are a Good way of automated events that involve everybody.
But also can be triggerd by some faction who want to see Neo Tokio in rubbles (TG for example protecting the Zombie population so they can grow).
Well what else?
Make outposts Bigger. I mean a Factory should look like a big ass factory a Lab should also look like it. Also make the Outposts more Importend
A uplink for example. Should enable to listen to other players DM in the given area.
The Lab is Fine
A fortress should have Big Honking Space Guns for defense.
A mine should give out Real chems. or sell them to a really low price for the Owner.
Ok that was it for now. i know that this wont happen but hey i thought the same about NC3
Lots of crap about Godzilla, zombies and prying on people's DMs.
Please, for the sake of the game... disregard this man's wild ideas.
Dribble Joy's, however, are well thought out and are not to be ignored.
PS - Also installed NC last night ready for 11 day break :)
Hell-demon
21-12-10, 12:47
I for one would like to see iron sights with auto aim introduced to the game. Also regenerating health and a cover system is a must in my opinion.
Also we should have the subscription fee increased so KK has no money troubles and micro transactions like hats and different colour skins for our shoes.
We should also have new escort missions that have a time limit. Skills should level up in real time, by which I mean you load up a skill and wait. Just wait. But to add difficulty some skills take days and even weeks to train.
I've noticed people like farmville and facebook so we should have a farmville like mini game in neocron. I know it doesn't fit the context of the game but people will enjoy it. Maybe have it so every time to you level up a message gets sent your friends on facebook showing how good you are at a game.
These things would really make neocron 3 great.
Also quick time events.
Mr. Kassad
21-12-10, 13:29
I for one would like to see iron sights with auto aim introduced to the game. Also regenerating health and a cover system is a must in my opinion.
Also we should have the subscription fee increased so KK has no money troubles and micro transactions like hats and different colour skins for our shoes.
We should also have new escort missions that have a time limit. Skills should level up in real time, by which I mean you load up a skill and wait. Just wait. But to add difficulty some skills take days and even weeks to train.
I've noticed people like farmville and facebook so we should have a farmville like mini game in neocron. I know it doesn't fit the context of the game but people will enjoy it. Maybe have it so every time to you level up a message gets sent your friends on facebook showing how good you are at a game.
These things would really make neocron 3 great.
Also quick time events.
And everything should be instanced and/or safe zone so you cannot be killed. PKing should only be allowed in certain areas like the Neofrag.
We should also introduce a skill tree with pre defined skills like "+5 Rifle Damage" instead of the old system that featured way to much skilling possibilities to the player. So everybody could be the same instead of an individual character!
Wouldn't that be great?
Also quick time events.
As in Resident Evil 5 quick time events? Counting aside the times I really hated it in RE5, you forget NC is a MMO FPS and not a single player game? I can't see it working.
If course if it's a quick time event to insta-kill Jake Hard, then I'm all for it! :p
Although if KK implemented quick time events, I think it would instantly be called quick-FRE events. :D
As in Resident Evil 5 quick time events? Counting aside the times I really hated it in RE5, you forget NC is a MMO FPS and not a single player game? I can't see it working.
If course if it's a quick time event to insta-kill Jake Hard, then I'm all for it! :p
Although if KK implemented quick time events, I think it would instantly be called quick-FRE events. :D
thats the only thing u comment on in his thread? I thought I failed at sarcasm detection :D
I thought I failed at sarcasm detection :D
98% of the time you do! :D
Hell-demon
21-12-10, 16:11
98% of the time you do! :D
Ladies....put the handbags down.
Ladies....put the handbags down.
ye, let's make it a fistfight
(dunno how much sarcasm i have now failed to detect, but i've never insulted brammers :P)
Doc Holliday
22-12-10, 01:21
start from scratch. new game new start new beginning. take the good from the games incarnations and take the good ideas from the forum here. that would be a surefire recipe for success imo. 1000 players would be a great start. yes theres been some spirited debate here by a lot of people but really we all just want to see this become something special again.
i think to do that it has to be done from the ground up. new engine etc.
please though (refferring back to my previous post about the woc issue) bring back the variation that made nc great. the subterfuge of factions was a huge + when it stopped being red vs blue and got back to its roots. the variation of the characters etc where people didnt all wear the same PA's and the variation of weapons made this game such a great one to me to play.
How about integration with Facebook?
Lexxuk just killed a spider - He's having so much fun!
Lexxuk just hacked a tool box - This games amazingly good
Lexxuk just killed a spider - He's having so much fun!
Lexxuk just got ganked by a level 2 PPU - Amazing fun!
Lexxuk just got sexed by Rade - .... (old timers may remember)
Facebook would love it!
Oh, and an iPhone app where you can, umm, umm, tell everyone how cool and hip you are by having the same phone as everyone else (and not the N900 which is the best phone on the planet, don't kill me Richard Slade! :P)
Oh, and an iPhone app where you can, umm, umm, tell everyone how cool and hip you are by having the same phone as everyone else (and not the N900 which is the best phone on the planet, don't kill me Richard Slade! :P)
/signed
"More Profit , with Profit !" Man not seen you in an age buddy, my all time favourite barter :)
.....
Looogaaan my friend. Great to see ya and great to hear my old Tagline :D
Hope we meet next week on P1 buddy
William Antrim
01-01-11, 13:27
Rade.... piss and vinegar.
wow.
and profit too! more profit with profit. Selling my vehicle part 10s....
Im weeping a tear of nostalgia.
Its great to see you fellas popping up again.
Hello everyone nobby here.
So Meow !
:p
Apocalypsox
01-01-11, 20:52
Have I mentioned this yet?
I better get my combat mechs in NC3 you jerks! :angel:
Unsticky thread ; Let thread die :-P
Unsticky thread ; Let thread die :-P
Too true
So Meow !
:p
Meow belongs to me fs. gonna make u pay for that saying
MEOW!
or in Chinese... Māo ! :p
Bring it :D
..and here come the trolls. -_-
killerkitten
03-01-11, 18:05
Hi Folks,
I read the forums and believe it or not I am also not that happy with the current status NC is in. AND there was/is a reason we could not fix the patch as promised or even take care of the forums like we should have done.
All we could do is: leave the servers online and give you the game for free.
I do also follow the certain threads what you guys would like to see in a successor to Neocron 2.
We all know what we did right in NC 1 and what we have made not so good in NC 2.
So the basic idea would be to design a new Neocron along with the community, discuss ideas, listen to your thoughts etc. BUT only as long as it stays in a moderate way.
I am also willing to answer your questions but also take the freedom of choice not to answer every question you ask. So if you have questions - go for it.
I hope that I can give you more news soon, cause you deserve it.
Best,
Kirk
Edited: a pic for you guys... start guessing what it is about!
* hug *
less pvp focus would be nice given that pvp in games like this is never a fair match because it's always who has the most free time ('that which has no life (http://snipr.com/warcrap)') :) be different
daughterolilith
03-01-11, 18:06
above post is me, I logged in on wrong account just realised after i saw only had 1 post ^
edit:
Another thing that should happen with NC 3 is make the parts of the forums that matter ingame fucking readable ingame. One of the huge problems Neocron had amongst others has allways been the fact that about half of the ingame population didn't care to read the official forums.that is a very good point actually, the fact that there were in-game forums put in as well *SEPARATELY* was just confusing for the majority of people who aren't very technical (look at how facebook has caught on, it's easy to use) so they thought taht the ingame forums WERE the forums I think. And because the ingame ones were not used by people that know about these ones, it made the game look more dead than it actually was (e.g. these forums a buzz of activity)
REAKKTOR ALSO STUFF TO LOOK AT:
tabularasamemorial.org (http://tabularasamemorial.org)
tabularasamemorial.org/apb (http://tabularasamemorial.org/apb)
tabularasamemorial.org/apb/feedback (http://tabularasamemorial.org/apb)
don't make the same mistakes they did:)
KRIMINAL99
05-01-11, 02:08
Here's a couple things I feel strongly about from my experiences.
1) Make it so that even if there was a single person on the server, they could explore the world, lvl up efficiently, and have a blast playing the game and not feel like they were missing out due to lack of constant trade skill support. I feel like NC2 had way too ambitious of a population threshold for the economy to work correctly (due to overspecialization), and then when that wasn't met, it died cause no one could do anything they wanted to without tradeskill/faction/etc support.
2) IMO the biggest thrill of neocron and brilliant endgame (although it doesn't wait to start at max level) was gambling in the form of pvp drops. The economy was properly set up for it at one point to where it overcame feelings of constant frustration. People farmed 2-3 copies of rares for backups, which wasn't that hard originally (just farm reapers), causing the prices of everything to drop. Those dropped in pvp weren't destroyed they were used or sold back into the market - causing large supply.
So you go out, you get pked, you lose something, who cares the guy in city-1 sells the highest non-rares for cheap. Next time you get lucky score a rare which you use for a while till you lose it again. Adrenaline packed fun, conditions you not to get frustrated or give up when you lose.
Then pvp drops were locked, WOC levels and weapons took months to obtain repetitively running caves a million times etc. The game wasn't originally designed to be a third rate WoW clone, and it failed miserably as such. It was it's own brilliant vision and I feel like every step after release was away from that original design of easy-come easy-go economy.
Neocron's outdated graphics and engine really have nothing to do with why the population is so low now. There are plenty of games like that still going strong even now.
Sure I'm the perpetual noob on Terra, whatever (sue me), but I'm right with DribbleJoy's post on many points.
However...
You want NC2.2 to help pay for NC3? Introduce a cashshop not for weapons, but for the support things returning players need and long-time players want to see. (i.e.:)
Charge me 5eu to retrieve my apartment codes when I forget them instead of ignoring the emails to helpdesk. 10 if its the second time I've forgotten. No, I'm not bitter thanks, I remembered them eventually and I know you're busy. But KK lost out on at least 10eu from me that day and I don't even have any rares to speak of. Never underestimate the fortune some Players would drop to keep their stash of the hardest rares to farm in-game.
Charge me a few quid for a holo pa (same stats) that doesn't make me look like a constipated chinaman on meth. I'd buy six of those right now and so would half the server. And next month...introduce another one. With current server pops, we're probably up to 200eu on the first run and you haven't changed a thing but the texture map on the avs and dropped a forum post for PR.
Charge 15eu for accounts in good standing to bake a noob toon from 0/2 to 0/20 when they rez at MC5. 90% of us still playing absolutely hate the first few levels and after you've been WoC a few times, so would you. So cash in on it. Hell, I've never been WoC yet (haven't seen much point until lately) and I hate the cellars. Yeah, I'm the oght/20's or less you see at Regants plugging away at a single mob. Laugh all ya want, I didn't have to hang a mob behind something to do it and I went from there to /52 Lauchers. Save me from this (yet) again and I'll have my Mastercard handy.
Charge me 20 to put my LE back in after level 30. Cash in on the Players that pull their LEs too early (pre-cap) and think, "Yanno, this was a mistake." And don't let them go back and forth every day. Make it non-repeatable, per account. Once should be enough for anyone to learn something. Let us make mistakes with our toons for free yes, but cash in on our Player's new-found "wisdom".
Charge us for unique furniture items (decorations only). Most of the Players NC has left have been here since the beginning and got nothing new to look at when they hit their front doors. I'd drop you 5 bucks right here to stop looking at that painfully pixelated persian rug on muh Via floor and I have--count them--11 of them to stare at upon log-in and I've taken everything to them but a Doomy to blow them off the marble. No dice, but it made me smile. "...TL115 poker needed at medi..."
5 bob to get a +10% exp boost for 5 days per Runner. People won't exploit half as much when you give them a legal option to get past the leveling grind faster and into the greater game NC offers. I've got 28 slots worth of toons and been in NC since DoY went DoA--do the math. My CC is waiting to be smoked, nuff said?
Make me drop a 10-spot for re-specing all my toon's points (with only marginal xp loss). Again, non-repeatable. If you're going to make the mobs this unbalanced and everything but Droners impossible to solo the tunnels/MC5, DON'T penalize me so heavily for respeccing to a Tradeskiller to help the Newbies along, eh? We all lom to filth at some point. Cash in KK. The NPCs wont miss the zeros. How about you...?
These are just a couple ideas off the top of my head. I'm sure your associates at Gamigo have a better idea of what can be done on this than I do, they've been at it longer to a greater profit than I've earned or spent.
But looking at the list above, my total NC3 contribution is already about 500+eu this quarter and that's before my 2 subscriptions kick in to keep the server hamster in stam boosters. I don't mind at all.
Please understand I'm not the least bit upset. I'm just direct as hell--that's why I'm usually over waaaay over here ....Being quiet.
--Aeon
Doc Holliday
06-01-11, 15:43
Here's a couple things I feel strongly about from my experiences.
1) Make it so that even if there was a single person on the server, they could explore the world, lvl up efficiently, and have a blast playing the game and not feel like they were missing out due to lack of constant trade skill support. I feel like NC2 had way too ambitious of a population threshold for the economy to work correctly (due to overspecialization), and then when that wasn't met, it died cause no one could do anything they wanted to without tradeskill/faction/etc support.
2) IMO the biggest thrill of neocron and brilliant endgame (although it doesn't wait to start at max level) was gambling in the form of pvp drops. The economy was properly set up for it at one point to where it overcame feelings of constant frustration. People farmed 2-3 copies of rares for backups, which wasn't that hard originally (just farm reapers), causing the prices of everything to drop. Those dropped in pvp weren't destroyed they were used or sold back into the market - causing large supply.
So you go out, you get pked, you lose something, who cares the guy in city-1 sells the highest non-rares for cheap. Next time you get lucky score a rare which you use for a while till you lose it again. Adrenaline packed fun, conditions you not to get frustrated or give up when you lose.
Then pvp drops were locked, WOC levels and weapons took months to obtain repetitively running caves a million times etc. The game wasn't originally designed to be a third rate WoW clone, and it failed miserably as such. It was it's own brilliant vision and I feel like every step after release was away from that original design of easy-come easy-go economy.
Neocron's outdated graphics and engine really have nothing to do with why the population is so low now. There are plenty of games like that still going strong even now.
/me bows.
It seems a bit pointless posting since we've had no communication with the leaders of the NC3 project (if there is one) in a long time, but on the off chance:
- The ability to choose which hand your character uses. Every single person in Neocron is right handed, I find it hard to believe that not a single 'lefty' survived the apocalypse and did not reproduce.
Luke']It seems a bit pointless posting since we've had no communication with the leaders of the NC3 project (if there is one) in a long time, but on the off chance:
- The ability to choose which hand your character uses. Every single person in Neocron is right handed, I find it hard to believe that not a single 'lefty' survived the apocalypse and did not reproduce.
aren't they all gene modified? in general it makes sense to make either everyone ambidextrous or right handed, else special shit needs to be made for every lefty. If you're making special genitically modified tanks, might as well make them able to use all the guns ;)
Right/left doesn't bother me so much.
...the utter lack of cigarettes in the 27th century I find more...disturbing.
But the current absence of dual-wield pistol ability is odd to me (with an appropriate penalty to balance it, like slightly decreased accuracy/range & a bit longer reloads). Maybe make it a WoC thing, dunno maybe hard to balance.
That said, I would like to see wep mods for increasing clip size (-12ish% reload time/+12% weight) & faster reloads (+8ish% reload time/+8% weight) in NC3. It would make carrying mid/highslotted non-rares in unlocked quickslots a little more viable while you're standing in the Wastes wearing off the synaptic fog until your imps jumpstart your main weapons.
...Don Quixote got in a fistfight with the Raptors again at Cycrow...
>SERVICES-NC.NoobSteak: TL115 Poker needed at Medi. tipping well.
...the utter lack of cigarettes in the 27th century I find
what, you mean they actually figured out it's stupid to smoke? :P
hell, the shot that makes you resistent to nicotine is coming soon isnt it? wouldn't be surprised if that ends up being mandatory.
if you guys really want NC3 i can go to the bathroom and take a shit and make a nc3 logo and put it on it. so you guys can stfu about a game thats not coming.
From what I know only tanks were genetically created, so those would be the only ones with a pre-defined hand
DarkPhoenix
09-01-11, 05:17
if you guys really want NC3 i can go to the bathroom and take a shit and make a nc3 logo and put it on it. so you guys can stfu about a game thats not coming.
Wow, I bet you're a real delightful person to be around.
William Antrim
09-01-11, 08:45
I think Kriminal got it right. No point quoting Flashlite as its only gonna get edited anyway.
As for left handers..... well they all died out along with ginger people afaik.
Dual Wielding is a long sought after option in NC, some of the cover art from back in the day (or might have been concept art i forget which) depicted a guy with two possible uzi type weapons, submachine guns anyway, popping off rounds. Everyone went mad for that.
I think Dribble Joy is possibly better versed to speak on the subject as he campaigned since mid 2003 if memory serves correctly saying how he wanted his duel wield judges.
I just used to carry 2 around with me and switch one to the other. A poor mans dual wield I realise but the pew pew was always fun.
I think a little trip over to the BP forums again full of convincing arguements will get Kirk to have another look at this thread. If KK really cared about Neocron, Kirk wouldn't fuck us about getting our hopes up and then ignore us once the BP forums have quietened down.
(Thanks for that, Flashlite. :/)
I just want to try and temper everyone's expectations somewhat. Is there a strong desire to develop NC3? Definitely - the teaser image that Kirk released wasn't just knocked up in five minutes for the purposes of that thread. NC3 is a very real project but at a very young stage in its lifecycle.
So the problem is timing. Black Prophecy is commanding everyone's attention right now and it will have to prove itself financially before NC3 gets off the ground in a concrete way. It's going to be a long road, but it's a road we're determined to travel.
NC 3 could be the most exciting game since [insert fave here], while there will be more goals to meet than this discussion has shown yet.
Theres one thing gone seriously wrong in the development of NC 1 and 2: The game has been tailored to meet the needs of the most vocal group. But we need to remember there are more motivations for playing an MMO than plain deathmatch fights in a very big area.
Motivations for playing an MMO have been described quite nicely by Prof. Richard Bartle, who told us there are four main groups of players, or four main drives: Killing, achieving, exploring, socialising. NC started with a good balance, but concentrated on the first activity with NC 2. And lost most achievers, explorers, socialisers in this process.
To regain an ingame population of thousands (as opposed to mere dozens), NC 3 has to meet the needs of all four gaming demographic groups.
Killers want to pvp right from the start.
Achievers want items and level-ups.
Explorers want an ever expanding world.
Socialisers want safe areas and RP items.
Bring it all together to set up a lively virtual world. Or fail by concentrating on one. Examples are numerous.
So its not just consented vs unsconsented PVP, extent of the skill tree, weapons balance, crafting and resources. My suggestions would be setting up an expanding map (as opposed to the fixed one of NC) with fixed zones dedicated to either war and peace (thus eliminating SL and LE), unlimited supply of items (think "borderlands-cron") and a multibranched skill tree with a lesser influence on pvp. I trust KK to work out the details.
...
While I agree that it would bring more people, it would also take away that essence of neocron that is the cold hard world.
there's nothing that relates to the thrill of knowing that in most situations, someone can come up and kill you!
a stronger penalty system that protects lower players, or at least punishes griefers is of course something that could help, but the fear and tension is what made neocron great from the moment I first played it.
Then again, why bother posting all this stuff, NC3 won't happen for ages, and if it does, it won't be from people reading these forums.
I think it would be great if Neocron had a more integrated and organized inventory system, like the one in Kotor 2
the DeusEx-like bag system is pretty good already, but could use a little work.
Instead of using a belt for everything, extend the implant window to include all equipable things (weapons, gloves, implants)
integrated buttons on the screen and keys to use items (stams,psi boosters,medkits) and buffs
A system like this would solve a lot of serious issues, like how people can line up a bunch of ion shotgun pistols for quick use and it would be a good system for implementing dual wielding.
DigestiveBiscui
17-01-11, 22:15
Do this game
NOW
Honestly though, from my experience, if you made it like NC1 was originally and removed such depressing ideas like hacknet, you'd already be in for a winner
THE_TICK!!!!
17-01-11, 23:59
im totally down for an nc3, hell i would donate to the cause !
DigestiveBiscui
18-01-11, 00:50
im totally down for an nc3, hell i would donate to the cause !
as this man said, i would gladly get naked
Neocron to me, was great because of the game world, gameplay and feel it had. All I can really suggest is try to keep to the same atmosphere, and don't try to reinvent the wheel.
Neocron to me, was great because of the game world, gameplay and feel it had. All I can really suggest is try to keep to the same atmosphere, and don't try to reinvent the wheel.
I have to agree. The world itself was a joy to be in. The sounds, the sights, the familiarity of it all. There are so many games which try to create immersive worlds, but none of them come close to MJS's creation.
The world and its atmosphere are what make Neocron great.
I have to agree. The world itself was a joy to be in. The sounds, the sights, the familiarity of it all. There are so many games which try to create immersive worlds, but none of them come close to MJS's creation.
The world and its atmosphere are what make Neocron great.
mjs? whozzat?
james_finn
18-01-11, 12:31
Oh wow, now I'm showing my neocron age ;)
MJS - Martin J Schweizer, the first CEO of Reakktor, went to work at 10T when all that happened iirc. He was also blamed (no idea whether it was fairly or not) for the rather large gap between patches once NC1 went live (post beta 4).
Oh wow, now I'm showing my neocron age ;)
MJS - Martin J Schweizer, the first CEO of Reakktor, went to work at 10T when all that happened iirc. He was also blamed (no idea whether it was fairly or not) for the rather large gap between patches once NC1 went live (post beta 4).
He also dreamed up Neocron and the world we play in.
The man was a legend :)
hehe, according forum join dates im much neocron-older ;) then again, that was in beta4 ;)
so what happened to him?
james_finn
18-01-11, 13:22
hehe, according forum join dates im much neocron-older ;) then again, that was in beta4 ;)
so what happened to him?
I didn't register for a long time after joining the neocron world ;)
No idea what happened to him after 10T.
@ LOKI of course he was also responsible for the fantastic world and vision that is Neocron - so we do have to be thankful to him for that!
No idea what happened to him after 10T.
He went and formed Black Lion Studio's. - http://www.blacklionstudios.com/html/company.html
He went and formed Black Lion Studio's. - http://www.blacklionstudios.com/html/company.html
Well, well! I didn't know that!
I also didn't know that he was the exec producer in the GTR/GTR 2 games, and wrote the initial concept idea for Black Prophecy.
Point in case... the man is a legend.
I think you should move the setting to Irata III (perhaps calling the game Irata), it links to the storyline perfectly.
Maintain FPS real-time combat dynamic. DO NOT dull freedom and complexity of gameplay for the general audience. Originality in the industry is at an all-time low thanks to larger companies like EA consuming the market and then playing it safe with their investments, their idea of a sci-fi game is to make a futuristic clone of Prince of Persia.
Please try to limit server choice to a maximum of two in order to keep population high (in that case, German & International). Expansive server architecture allows the population bottleneck to be increased / decreased to keep costs down.
The only small development house that even comes close to Reakktor in my opinion is Icarus, a small, efficient studio who have kept their studio size down and have taken things at a respectable pace which in the long run has awarded them a moderately small but stable in-game population with Fallen Earth. They run ONE server and it works perfectly in maintaining an engaging multiplayer environment for players. This is also backed up by their game being fairly original compared with 99.5% of other MMOS so the players that they have are there to stay as there is nothing else like it.
*Don't sell out to a publisher that will jeopardise creative direction. Instead of focusing on publishers, strive to make the game AVAILABLE ON STEAM! This will help your launch more than any small publicity campaign and people will take you more seriously than with some small F2P publisher.
Gameplay suggestions:
Maintain the addictive/strategic dynamic of OP wars.
Introduce open PvP flags for bounties if safe zones stay in the game (although reduce safe zones and replace that with more powerful NPCs, enabling raids if large groups really organise themselves).
Furthermore a possibility of eradicating safe zones altogether and replacing them with tradeskill friendly zones, within these specified zones you can be invulnerable to attack if you have a tradeskill glove equipped and no weapons in your inventory. Leaving SL penalties to do the work. Ofcourse these areas should be within the most heavily populated areas to enable players to do business around one another, avoiding segregation.
Maintain the dark, claustrophobic, multi-story combat environment from the cities and expand on that. To date it's the most unique area of NC's in-game setting when compared with what the rest of the MMO market has to offer.
After playing BP, I strongly urge you to avoid tacky 2d & video cutscenes. Keep everything INGAME please.
Bring back sewers so we can jump people :D
And most importantly(from a clan combat perspective), add a few outposts to URBAN zones this time.
And i'll say it again,
..Make the game AVAILABLE ON STEAM. You'll be off to a great start!
I've been around since the B3 days and feel so passionately about Neocron. Nothing comes close, if population was higher and hacking was patched I would still play it over anything available on PC or PS3. Hell, if NC2 went over to gamigo with a re-launch and BP was avoided altogether I believe it would be quite popular now, likely just as much if not more than BP will be. But I do see how KK needed a break from all the NC associated bad luck they had. I think they will be ready to return with a refreshed head-space soon.
p.s hey Strife, long time ; )
So hoping this comes to pass, neocron is still the best pvp game iv played and after playing other MMOs the problem with neocron seem so small... I just hope if it does they fix drugs they were out of hand, i remember 1 guy took all the speed drugs there were and was running faster than any speed hacker, and with drugs iv got instant aim on a devourer, they need changing to only give main stats or else only let people use 1 or 2 at once.
It was so sad how in the right direction things were going then they stole everybodys money thanks to no real plans for stabalising the economy and DOY was a horrible place nobody wanted to go near.
I'll look forward to see this game online. I love cyberpunk and want to play NC3 when it's comming up. No other game could transport such a spirit of future and darkness like Neocron. My wish, take a deep look into the brainport again and make us happy with a game started from scratch and full of new features. :)
Thanks in advance.
Things that imo should be in NC3 to get old NC1/NC2 players back and eventually bring new ppl looking for PvP oriented game:
- zoneless open world [there could be spearated zones with loading screen for dungeons like places but any1 should be able to enter them any time no instances]
- keep TPP/FPP player skill dependent combat
- full loot FFA PvP with penalties for killing good guys [same faction / faction alliance etc usuall stuff] and no safe slot shit but hackable belts can be.
- no insane grind and ppl need to be able to quite fast change setups and experiment with skills and stuff
- no hardcoded limitations, if i really want to be pistol tank i should be able to be it [meaby even drop classes and put some kind of skill cap so everybody born the same and got a chance to be what he want ot be]
- no "epic" ie hard to get equipement cuz ppl will start whine about loosing it and demand safe slots and shit, if you can farm top end gear in 3h play time you are not afraid to go with it into combat
- territory control with usefull bonuses from owning outposts and with some kind of prevention from ninja/overnight takeovers [siege system ?]
- engine need to support large scale battles and i mean large without horrendal fps loss or lag there is no fun in territory control if 100vs100 combat is lagfest with 1000 ping and 4 fps even if you have NASA computer.
There are 2 games running now that share some of NC ideas and imo devs should look at them closly to see what ppl playing them thinks [as potential customers for NC3]. As Kirk stated they know what they done wrong with NC1-NC2.2 but they could avoid new problems by learning on Darkfall and Mortal Online errors [i know that both of those games are set in fantasy but both have some kind of player skill based combat + FFA PvP with full loot + territory control]
dodgefahrer
27-01-11, 11:05
Things that imo should be in NC3 to get old NC1/NC2 players back and eventually bring new ppl looking for PvP oriented game:
- zoneless open world [there could be spearated zones with loading screen for dungeons like places but any1 should be able to enter them any time no instances]
- keep TPP/FPP player skill dependent combat
- full loot FFA PvP with penalties for killing good guys [same faction / faction alliance etc usuall stuff] and no safe slot shit but hackable belts can be.
- no insane grind and ppl need to be able to quite fast change setups and experiment with skills and stuff
- no hardcoded limitations, if i really want to be pistol tank i should be able to be it [meaby even drop classes and put some kind of skill cap so everybody born the same and got a chance to be what he want ot be]
- no "epic" ie hard to get equipement cuz ppl will start whine about loosing it and demand safe slots and shit, if you can farm top end gear in 3h play time you are not afraid to go with it into combat
- territory control with usefull bonuses from owning outposts and with some kind of prevention from ninja/overnight takeovers [siege system ?]
- engine need to support large scale battles and i mean large without horrendal fps loss or lag there is no fun in territory control if 100vs100 combat is lagfest with 1000 ping and 4 fps even if you have NASA computer.
I agree with most points.
But what i still like is NO full loot FFA drop
Some hard to get equip (ie like WoC stuff).
Anyways it will take atleast 3-5 years to get NC3 rdy to launch...so lets see what KK is doing with it.
Dribble Joy
28-01-11, 16:27
Indeed. Even if equipment was easily obtainable, it would still take too long to regain it, as opposed to now where you can grab a poke and be back in the action, plus rezzing would be near pointless.
Also, part of NC is the defence of protecting what you have built up.
Now this sounds like an argument in favour of full drops, but if equipment is easy to come by - in order to keep people fighting more - then this sense is lost. If equipment is hard to come by then people won't be as inclined to fight unless the odds are massively in their favour, which is boring and will push many people towards not wanting to fight at all.
As a result, you either have no-one fighting and others ganging up or everyone fights in between getting gear, the rush is lost and the game might as well be a big CS server. Which NC isn't, it's an MMO.
as opposed to now where you can grab a poke and be back in the action
So atm there is no drop from players at all ? If its true and NC changed in one big NeoFrag then lulz
rezzing would be near pointless.
Dont understand this... if you got rezzed you cant be looted so it would be most important with full loot on [or my memory serves me bad as i didnt played NC loooong time]
and the game might as well be a big CS server. Which NC isn't, it's an MMO.
if there is no loot you got already big CS server... no risk/gain at all from PvP only mindless fragging.
Anyway every1 has his own opinion on PvP loot. I can understand ppl that dont like full loot but i like it and i chose games based on PvP rules [in terms of PvP oriented MMO's as i play some games without PvP at all]. I could live with 1 safe slot rule but i quited NC after KK changed it to something even more carebear [dont remember now what it was but next step they taked after 1 safe slot]. So for me PvP loot rules are 2nd most important thing besides NC3 engine performance at big scale fights. If KK will not deliver those 2 things at my taste i will prolly play only 30 days or meaby there will be something that i cant think of now but it will keep me playing ? :lol: KK suprised me with NC1 and i was really in love with that game meaby [i hope] they can do it with NC3 too.
I just hope to god they scrap Woc.. worst idea ever that. I use to love NC cos you could cap in a few days and get right down to the pvp, Woc added a ton of boring pve grinding which was essential really, i mean how many pistol and rifle pe/spys didn't use those amasingly OP woc guns... then ofc what did monks and tanks get... well monks i dont think got anything i can remember and if they did it was so useless that i can't remember it and tanks got the suicide launcher. However even if tank/monk did get a good weapon i still say NO to WoC! the idea of pve grinding in a pvp game... so dumb
I just hope to god they scrap Woc.. worst idea ever that. I use to love NC cos you could cap in a few days and get right down to the pvp, Woc added a ton of boring pve grinding which was essential really, i mean how many pistol and rifle pe/spys didn't use those amasingly OP woc guns... then ofc what did monks and tanks get... well monks i dont think got anything i can remember and if they did it was so useless that i can't remember it and tanks got the suicide launcher. However even if tank/monk did get a good weapon i still say NO to WoC! the idea of pve grinding in a pvp game... so dumb
dont bring up woc again... woc has never been a grind fest, its a maximum of 5% of the time it takes to cap in the first place. and yes this is actually based on me being anal enough to actually record the amount of time leveling took for the last 3 chars I wocced.
Doc Holliday
30-01-11, 05:45
lots of us think woc is shit big. you dont know any difference to compare it to. some of us remember nc without it and we prefer that nc.
You can't complain about how long it takes to get WoC. If you do it right, you will cap in 3 days, and by the dinner time on the fourth you will have your WoC xp.
I grinded WoC 3 on my tank, 300mil to 610mil, in 20 hours. That's including grinding the WoC disk... which took me 20 minutes because I got two straight after each other :p
As for PEs/Spies and WoC, good rifle spies use a dissy and holo armour. Good pistol spies *can* own with a libby (I used it on my old pistol spy, I was killing tanks faster than hacked Dev stacks could kill me). I've seen PE's running around in normal PA, but I don't count them as a dedicated class so enough of that.
I played before when WoC wasn't introduced, I admit that I miss those days, but you really can't complain that WoC is a huge grind fest or that it has ruined the game, it has given us a large amount of setups to play with.
Edit/ Also, I have 6 WoC characters, 1 WoC3, and every single one of them I did without an LE in. Just imagine if I had it in, the times would be dramatically reduced.
William Antrim
30-01-11, 14:22
Woc is shit for reasons previously stated. It puts new players off who dont know how to cap in 3 days. Sure thats great that you guys can, awesome point but I dont see the hundreds of subscriptions it takes to keep a game like this going.
I do however remember clearly how many old friends (and some really bloody good players and their subscriptions) were lost when woc was introduced.
All the majority of nc players want to do is pvp, i say this from experience as the pve content is truthfully second rate by comparison and I think everyone can agree on that. Anything that stops players from achieving that goal or slows them from getting to it and into the adrenaline-fuelled beloved pvp battles of old will, in many cases, be detrimental to the game.
Biglines youre beginning to sound like a broken record and i think honestly you've made your point and we have agreed that we disagree with it.
As a forum is a place for debate i presume you will continue to push forward your opinions as usual however and we will continue to explain that the effect of this "feature" on the game is not a good one and this entire cycle will just continue until nc3 comes out with or without woc or we all die of old age.
p.s if capping woc in 3 days "if you do it right" means to use some of the less legal levelling "features" of nc then no id rather not have it at all than use such bonuses.
Luke']
Edit/ Also, I have 6 WoC characters, 1 WoC3, and every single one of them I did without an LE in. Just imagine if I had it in, the times would be dramatically reduced.
Grind as general in NC wasnt a problem ever, WoC grind isnt too. Problem is when WoC items start to be "must have" items. I dont want to be forced to grind WoC to get some item that will make me PvP vialable.
As we all know there are players that focus on PvP and players that enjoy PvE and do mostly it. If KK want to keep population high they need to provide content for both types. Teritory control will provide endless content for PvP guys and grinding to WoC 9000+ could provide content for PvE's.
About LE .... i really liked LE penalty implementation that existed in NC1 B4 and i think in NC early release [or KK changed it near B4 end ?], LEd ppl back then got less xp/money and requiments on items were higher for them [if gun was DEX 30 R-C 50 for unLEd then LEd guy needed DEX 35 R-C 65 or something like that]. With that system most ppl after playing some days and finding friends/clan pulled out LE and that was imo whats LE was meant to be .... safe mode for starters not safe mode until WoC 9000+
gosh, in one post, you accused me of both lieing and of exploiting. I'll have you know that I leveled most of my characters not even by droning. Hell my apu still doesn't have dex cap because I leveled him the proper way (hes woc1).
however new you are at leveling (any newbie can ask on help how to level and it will be told within minutes), you still need to level to be able to use non-woc weapons that are reasonable. THIS capping, is the only mandatory leveling required in the game.
this time, as I have clocked it from normal leveling (not power leveling with drones or rhino's), takes about one and a half week of nightly leveling. FACT.
the "grind" to woc, takes about one and a half night of leveling. FACT.
while you can be shit at leveling, or not have much time, this doesn't change the relative time it takes to finish woc or not.
whining about woc being mandatory is also bullshit, the only char that even uses woc these days is a PE, which regretfully is completely fucked with WOC because of the lower dex CAP of a PE.
I might be sounding like a broken record. But at least my statements are based on experience and facts. The changes that were introduced at the same time as WOC, those are what people don't like. But woc as it is now, is absolutely no hassle, and every single class except the PE is just as well off without woc as with.
In fact, leveling towards woc, and getting a viable woc weapons, takes far less time, than it does to find the parts for a disruptor. I have found over a thousand rare parts, and still don't have a complete disruptor set. Yet I have done the woc missions over and over (I wrote quite a few of the guides on the wiki), and all those weapons are bloody easy to get, except again the PE weapon (doy mission).
Now, you can try to discredit me by saying I just for the sake of debate. But try to counter any of these facts:
Woc xp takes about 10% of the time it takes anyone to level to cap. It is irrelevant what method of leveling is used.
Woc weapons and armour are far easier to get than good rare weapons
90% of the weapons that are currently used in the game, aren't woc
90% of the weapons that are currently used in the game, aren't woc
Cmon, you know that's bs yourself don t you?
Cmon, you know that's bs yourself don t you?
oh? apu's dont use woc weapons, ppus dont use woc weapons, tanks dont use woc weapons, the only woc weapon spies use are ak's, most spies use a disruptor.
I see very few people with woc weapons.
and AK is just as powerful as a dissy, in a lot of cases a dissy is even more powerful.
Problem is when WoC items start to be "must have" items.
I have setups for you to use. HC Camo tank which was arguable the best setup in the game before the whole file altering stuff started. I have Melee Camo tank, Rifle Spy, APU, PPU, Non-pa HC Tank, Non-pa APU and Non-pa PPU Nskills that beg to differ.
I can think of 15 different class/weapon proficiency setups, out of which only 2 would be majorly benefitted by WoC, and those are Pistol spies and Pistol PEs.
Setups which don't need WoC to play efficiently
Spy
Rifle
Droner
Private Eye
Rifle
Droner
Heavy Combat
Melee
Monk
APU
PPU
Hybrid
Tank
MC
HC
Pistol
Rifle
Now please, stop your God damn whining. You don't have to use WoC, you just need to learn the game. Hell, the main reason I use WoC is because I like the armour
Luke']I have setups for you to use.
I dont want your setups im not cookie lover... i want play as i like. I never whined in this thread cuz its about ideas for NC3 not a whine, I can understand your passion for gold tank armor which will shine in plaza 1 but lets forget about this. Major problem for KK as is for us [as ppl who talk to them] is deliver a game that will keep masses and pvp freeks in same place. PvPers need big population to be happy with their harvestings and population need carebaer things like WoC to be attached .... lets KK find ferect balance between feed and predators. You if you arte really all about WoC and safe haven of LED ... Then you jump into feed category. And your are After Dark member ... as fair as i remember AD always wanted more fight lees cb, shit changes huh ?
I dont want your setups im not cookie lover... i want play as i like. I never whined in this thread cuz its about ideas for NC3 not a whine, I can understand your passion for gold tank armor which will shine in plaza 1 but lets forget about this. Major problem for KK as is for us [as ppl who talk to them] is deliver a game that will keep masses and pvp freeks in same place. PvPers need big population to be happy with their harvestings and population need carebaer things like WoC to be attached .... lets KK find ferect balance between feed and predators. You if you arte really all about WoC and safe haven of LED ... Then you jump into feed category. And your are After Dark member ... as fair as i remember AD always wanted more fight lees cb, shit changes huh ?
at this moment, PE's aside, the only thing WoC adds to the game, is more variety in setups. Else every single spy would be using dissy.
dodgefahrer
31-01-11, 20:02
I need to agree with BigLines.
Whining about WoC is BS at all.
Theres no "Must-have" on WoC as proofed before.
The "grind" to WoC-XP is a joke like lvling at all (u can reach WoC xp easy within a week as expirienced player. How long it will take a new player is not dicussable....u cant expect a newbie being as fast as a expirienced player).
All WoC stuff is an xtra-bonus in the endgame.
So be happy that its implemented so u can do some stuff ingame beside PvPing all the time.
Richard Slade
01-02-11, 16:14
Topic. WoC is not it.
why not? nc3, and how it would or should be different from nc2, was the topic of this thread. how is discussing the impact of woc on the current game not related to the topic?
unless this topic is only intended for oblivous fanboyism and being diverted from the fact that this news was announced over a year ago, and is only now posted again to distract from the fact that in over a year time, absolutely none of the promises have been met and absolutely no useful communication has occurred?
as fair as i remember AD always wanted more fight lees cb, shit changes huh ?
Does it? wtf is lees cb?
I dont want your setups im not cookie lover... i want play as i like. I never whined in this thread cuz its about ideas for NC3 not a whine, I can understand your passion for gold tank armor which will shine in plaza 1 but lets forget about this. Major problem for KK as is for us [as ppl who talk to them] is deliver a game that will keep masses and pvp freeks in same place. PvPers need big population to be happy with their harvestings and population need carebaer things like WoC to be attached .... lets KK find ferect balance between feed and predators. You if you arte really all about WoC and safe haven of LED ... Then you jump into feed category. And your are After Dark member ... as fair as i remember AD always wanted more fight lees cb, shit changes huh ?
I apologize since English is obviously not your first language, but wtf are you trying to say!?
As a final thing for Woc, if people love it so much why not just make all woc weapons and armour not better than other armour/guns but just look different, if the other weapons are better anyway this wont bother you as thats apparantly why you level WoC (though i can undestand some people hating to loose the dreaded poison ak or anti-stealth xbow). Now lets get back on topic
I need to agree with BigLines.
So be happy that its implemented so u can do some stuff ingame beside PvPing all the time.
Im sorry i just have to point this out to be laughed at by all.... if i want to pve ill play Rift or WoW... neocron has always been almost pure pvp and thats why most people here loved it. Nobody is playing neocron so they can have a fun fun fun pve grind
Some people do play more for the non-pvp aspects. You would probably call such a person a "carebear", but some people just have a different preference. Whether it's because they aren't good enough for it, they don't have the hardware for it, or they just aren't interested in it. I'm not very good at it even with good hardware and decent pvp characters, but I still enjoy it. I think many of the best pvpers wouldn't be into it if they weren't the best, simply because they don't get to stroke their egos by winning all the time.
O_o basically my point is that I know plenty of people that like to do more than just pvp. I personally like both quite a bit.
If I wanted a game that was just pure PVP, I wouldn't play an MMO. I would play Dystopia or something. Or maybe Global Agenda which is a lot less of an MMO.
dodgefahrer
05-02-11, 23:48
Im sorry i just have to point this out to be laughed at by all.... if i want to pve ill play Rift or WoW... neocron has always been almost pure pvp and thats why most people here loved it. Nobody is playing neocron so they can have a fun fun fun pve grind
Sry dude but who are YOU to tell ME how i have to play ?
You seriously need to accept that not everyone wants to PvP all the time.
Myself appreciated lvling new ppl for days by helping em with my PPU.
Beside i know a lot player loved Neocron for some other aspects beside PvP (like PvE, RP, housing, crafting, ressing stuff, doing missions and so on).
If u enjoy PvP only its up to you but dont force anyone to love Neocron for the same. There are so many other things you can do in NC and thats why i love this game since many years and come back all the time.
Hopefully the developers of a upcoming NC3 keep an eye on those other sides too and dont focus on PvP only.
/just my 2 cent
it's even completely beside the point, as it has nothing to do with woc, he's just trolling, ignore him
ashley watts
06-02-11, 11:47
Yayuh ! Neocron 3
I miss zheo =(
Also calling somebody a troll cos you have no real arguement is a bad way to go. Some people may play neocron for the pve aspects, but most play it for pvp and its stupid to force people to pve in other to pvp, the best pvp games allow you to completely cap out in pvp. If they make it so pvping gives amasing xp so you don't need to grind pve im happy for it to stay, the problem is though i played for god knows how many years after woc was released on 1 char just pvping, never got a woc level.. despite always finding the pvp as soon as i logged on and fighting constantly.
Then theres those woc dicks people kept selling for a few million...
I miss zheo =(
Also calling somebody a troll cos you have no real arguement is a bad way to go. Some people may play neocron for the pve aspects, but most play it for pvp and its stupid to force people to pve in other to pvp, the best pvp games allow you to completely cap out in pvp. If they make it so pvping gives amasing xp so you don't need to grind pve im happy for it to stay, the problem is though i played for god knows how many years after woc was released on 1 char just pvping, never got a woc level.. despite always finding the pvp as soon as i logged on and fighting constantly.
Then theres those woc dicks people kept selling for a few million...
so in fact you want the whole game to be dumbed down to only pvp, why not play counter strike then?
I called you a troll because of "Im sorry i just have to point this out to be laughed at by all....", and somehow dismissing about 80% of the population by only looking at what you liked in the game, as well as obviously not looking at what the post you quoted was based on, but just wanting to put in ur own opinion (which is funny, cuz u even say ur opinion is supposed to somehow be the truth for the majority of people)
Doc Holliday
06-02-11, 19:51
love the fall back arguement in this thread. not everyone uses woc. they use a dissie.
why do they use a dissie. because its the most OP weapon (that means overpowered) out there.
same old crap coming out to combat the woc arguement. some are for it. some are against.
personally i liked it when we didnt have to use PA to use a PE on a PE. nothing more to add. lets hope for bp to do well so NC3 can become a reality.
love the fall back arguement in this thread. not everyone uses woc. they use a dissie.
why do they use a dissie. because its the most OP weapon (that means overpowered) out there.
same old crap coming out to combat the woc arguement. some are for it. some are against.
personally i liked it when we didnt have to use PA to use a PE on a PE. nothing more to add. lets hope for bp to do well so NC3 can become a reality.
so by your logic, woc is bad because it actually opens up different setups, as otherwise the PE would simply be unusable, spies would only use dissies, and tanks simply had less options for power armour.
you keep saying "some or for it, some are against", but the only people that are against it don't play regularly, and you have yet to bring forth even one refutal of the facts listed a few posts back...
just cuz u keep repeating ur complaint, yet refuse to back it up with any facts, doesn't mean you're right. Hell, it's getting quite annoying argueing with someone who every time a fact is brought forth, doesn't bother noting it, but instead throws in some lame argument about some mysterious group of "people".
so by your logic, woc is bad because it actually opens up different setups, as otherwise the PE would simply be unusable, spies would only use dissies, and tanks simply had less options for power armour.
No, you could use this without having to woc.
Even so I think the discussion is a bit hipocritical at the moment, since like 90% of the WOC XP is probably exploited in Regants or with drones and even more of the discs are exploited with drones.
so in fact you want the whole game to be dumbed down to only pvp, why not play counter strike then?
I called you a troll because of "Im sorry i just have to point this out to be laughed at by all....", and somehow dismissing about 80% of the population by only looking at what you liked in the game, as well as obviously not looking at what the post you quoted was based on, but just wanting to put in ur own opinion (which is funny, cuz u even say ur opinion is supposed to somehow be the truth for the majority of people)
Actually, I think Modern Warfare would suit him better, because you get to level up with PVP in that.
On the subject of WoC: I like woc. I think it's a really cool idea with a cool story behind it and it offers some nice extra variety of setups and it's something to work towards after capping. The only problem is that the whole system is messed up right now, so lots of different setups aren't viable.
I'd like to see the whole system setup more like how it used to be, with just integer values for items. The way it is now worked best for how bonuses would decrease the lower the condition of the item, but that was quickly patched out due to nearly unanimous backlash and without that it's kind of annoying and pointless. I liked being able to easily do the math in my head to add up bonuses and I scan still approximate, but getting the exact amount is just a hassle. I see no good reason to keep it this way, except changing just that right now would mess up the current balance, which is pretty bad anyways so even that might work out to at least make things interesting for a while.
William Antrim
07-02-11, 15:02
The only fact worth mentioning biglines is the fact you werent here when the majority of this stuff happened. We refer to a time before you played nc, pre-woc when things were much better and the fact that woc altered much of that in order to create a time sink.
Time and the game has changed much since then, at one time ALL tanks used CS's. There was no alternative. However CS's were good and even for everyone, slots was all that mattered. It was easy to get a cs but the slots were a nightmare, however the difference between the slots was neglible. People wanted a 5 slotter because they had bragging rights.
Everyone should have a choice to use whatever weapon they want. Each class should have (in a perfect world) two or three easily acquirable guns which LOOK different but do nothing different in terms of physics and give players the variety.
p.s my previous post didnt attack or flame you in any way shape or form. I merely insinuated something. You chose to interpret it as an attack.
p.p.s you continue to miss the point others are making about why woc is bad, so much so that youre sounding like a broken record by missing other peoples points in your forthright holy crusade of woc. Your rose tinted glasses need to be put down.
The game is in a shit state. Noone gives a fuck about how good things might be now, now is a shade of the glory that many of us remember.
What we are trying to do is make sure that the new version doesnt fall into the same trap that the current version is in.
Banging on about how good you are or are not with Woc as it is at present is null and void in this discussion.
NC3 will not be, God forbid, ANYTHING like what nc is atm.
p.p.s you continue to miss the point others are making about why woc is bad, so much so that youre sounding like a broken record by missing other peoples points in your forthright holy crusade of woc. Your rose tinted glasses need to be put down. .
might want to actually read the stuff I post before concluding that I'm saying something else. I've mentioned many times before, that the shit that happened at the same time as woc was introduced, is what is crap in the game, not woc itself.
my whole point, which I've repeatedly stated in my posts, is that woc is completely irrelevant to the things that are wrong with the current game. Yet people keep bringing it up as the one thing that is supposedly wrong with the game.
It's completely useless to say that in nc3, woc should be changed, as woc is completely irrelevant compared to the plethora of problems this game has, and especially concerning the current state of the game, woc only brings positive effects to the game.
second where are other people agreeing with you? list me the points, instead of saying "people don't agree with you".
3rd, concerning neocron, I don't have rose tinted glasses. I think the balance is shit, the devs are incompetent, the game full of bugs, the GM's way too inactive and don't know anything about the game anymore, hacknet is useless, the zoning system sux, pe's being gimped sucks, hybrids being gimped sucks, apu's and melee being usuable but only by clipping sucks, absolutely no anti-cheat sux, nothing being done about the most blatant banevaders and cheaters sucks.
all these things suck far more than woc does, the only thing woc currently does, is bring somewhat more variation to setups, all the other things that are listed as sucking, aren't part of woc.
and gamefreak, woc xp being around 10% of the total time spend leveling, woc has nothing to do with exploiting, it's leveling in general that is exploited.
Doc Holliday
07-02-11, 19:11
i read the thread big. i read plenty of others too. those are the people who are for and against it. however its one small part in a whole list of issues that plague the game.
maybe im just nostalgic and miss the old low tech pain easer pe's of old. i miss mine
i agree with your other points about balance etc. im not butting heads for the sake of it here believe me.
what i dont have time for is to be a forum warrior and pull up millions of posts where people state their arguements for and against it all the time. im not a lawyer argueing a case in a court room so dont feel this is required. i think being around nc through several of its phases gives me an idea what im talkin about.
that said i think i can turn water in to wine easier than i can get my point accross to you.
that said i think i can turn water in to wine easier than i can get my point accross to you.
like I said before, list simple facts, I react well to those. I however don't really see when u have ever stated any points that were in any way provable...
the only thing so far in your posts has been to make me out to be some obstinate idiot who doesn't listen, by the only virtue in your posts of saying other people agree with you. I've looked through this thread and actually see only two people agreeing with you, and both their arguments were proven wrong by simple facts.
Now of course I have been obstinate, mostly because I actually care about trying to get some actual facts into a discussion, instead of just relying on nostalgia and the way old people keep reinforcing their believe of how everything used to be so much better. True I'm argueing against a brick wall, since there are no actual points to which I can reply aside from the veiled insults and mocking.
I'll try to explain very shortly what ur point has been:
- claims that woc somehow takes long to level, which were proven wrong by facts
- that the cause of the problems of nc are somehow related to woc, without actual related statements.
- that some mystical group of beings who don't actually play the game, agree with you that woc is crap.
Where I agree with you:
- The balance was different before woc was introduced (i did play a while u know)
- That the balance currently sux.
- A lot of people indeed think that woc sucks (regretfully while they agree with you, noone seems to be giving any arguments for the actual things that are crappy, at least none that are in any way related to facts)
Where I disagree with you:
- That woc has anything to do with the problems.
- That the game was ever well balanced, the whole point of the new skill system was to improve balance, which the whole community had been whining about at the time. Of course KK being KK they abandoned the balancing before it was actually started, just breaking the actual skill system with decimals.
you accused me of having rose tinted glasses, but the game was never ever well balanced, it's just that back then, there were soooo many people, that people from every level could compete and still enjoy the game without having a cookie cutter setup. Nowadays the few people that are playing, are either not playing fairly, or have played for so long that they have found perfect setups that are simply very hard to compete with.
now, in a short list of points, what have I missed from the point you're trying to get accross. Not what "people" think of woc, just what is wrong with woc at this moment. And if that's not the point, almost every single post from me has been about the fact that woc is irrelevant to balance atm, except being positive in some limited cases (pe).
You say you're not going to list those points because you're not some forum warrior. Then why bother constantly replying to my posts, making me out to be some obstinate idiot. If you think you're right, don't start quoting, just make some valid point, instead of the only thing you keep saying is that others agree with you. What do they agree with, other than the claim that woc sux?
reading through it again, I don't even see you try to answer any of the points i've made, just ignoring them and instead saying "people agree with me, so you are wrong"
Do you even know, that woc was introduced with nc2 and not with nc 2.2 biglines? Back then wise people (myself f.e.) predicted woc to be a necessary grind for people to keep up in pvp, which it became when the first woc weapon (xbow) was absolutely op.
Also woc grind goes up to 3/5 (items/actual planned woc by KK) which takes more than 10% of the leveling time even with the atm broken game.
And finally, in a game that s not broken, you can expect that the leveling won t become like 10 times faster as soon as you can use a decent drone or go to regants, which will also make your 10% proposition useless.
Also: In a "balanced" game the 15% dmg bonus on woc weapons would make them a necessity if you want to fight against equal players. The only reason the 15% bonus doesn t make everyone run around with woc weapons atm is because the balance is fucked up anyway.
Its quite obvious big only ever won fights using woc guns... hes fighting for it using no logic or sense at all. How is it good to have a long pve grind that needs discs which cost millions in a game which is mostly popular for the pvp content. Like a lot of people who hate woc i played NC 1 when the main fighting was OPs and pepper park. Those were the days... fun fights always in the city and great fights everywere else as well. Then they released nc2 and screwed it all up.
I wouldn't mind keeping WoC if it wasn't needed for pvp, keep all woc gear as purely pve or appearance stuff (ie same power as other non woc guns just a cool new art) and ill be happy as larry, but when you make woc a long grind with a disc you need to grind for that gives you a weapon which is more powerful than any other gun around thats when you have a problem
Do you even know, that woc was introduced with nc2 and not with nc 2.2 biglines?
yes
Also woc grind goes up to 3/5 (items/actual planned woc by KK) which takes more than 10% of the leveling time even with the atm broken game.
none of the weapons require 3 or 5, and as woc was meant to be, woc 3 pa's would only be very very very rare.
And finally, in a game that s not broken, you can expect that the leveling won t become like 10 times faster as soon as you can use a decent drone or go to regants, which will also make your 10% proposition useless.
of course it does, it's a relative number, if u cant level up in regants, u go much slower, but it still takes the same relative amount, since u still need to get the same amount of xp... the speed with which you level, has nothing to do with the relative time it takes for a 100m overcap. If you want I can explain this more thoroughly, but think about it.
Also: In a "balanced" game the 15% dmg bonus on woc weapons would make them a necessity if you want to fight against equal players. The only reason the 15% bonus doesn t make everyone run around with woc weapons atm is because the balance is fucked up anyway.
what do you mean by balanced? all player equal skill? thats not my definition of balanced, and I don't think that should ever be the case, where non-skilled can beat skilled players. Teamwork however should be rewarded ofc.
and yes I agree, the current balance fuckup is bad, which means that in the current game, which I've always said I'm talking about, the only thing woc does is provide the pe with a somewhat viable setup, and some different possibilities of setup.
William Antrim
08-02-11, 13:11
Personally i dont really care enough about your opinion to bother quoting you. That is just like feeding the fire of an argument I am already bored of.
All the problems you listed have been around since pretty much day 1, yet people still played.
The extra problems brought along since the introduction of new "features" in the game is what killed the player base.
lol, sidestepping every single request for a mature conversation based on actual facts... classy
good thing KK never read the forums
P.S. my opinion of u has always been good, the discussion has had no effect on that. just the fact that you feel you have to insult or insinuate insulting me because I try to actually come up with facts instead of mere speculation and how it "feels", that did make my opinion drop a bit.
Right, fact about WoC - it's a good idea, but the current balance is very broken and unfinished.
I think the only part of WoC that seems to be ok is the WoC armour, it's available for every class for a start.
However there is no WoC weapons for monks, so that's one major class ruled out in PvP, so there your first area of a mis-balanced game.
When it comes to PvP, a player using a top-end non-woc weapon vs a player with a WoC weapon should be a fairly even fight. Right now, it's not, and it hasn't been for a long time, you will get completed screwed by the player using WoC. Anyone remember how bad things was when the Crossbow got first introduced, before it got a much needed nerfed, as it was soo overpowered?
WoC should be an alternative path for PvP, not a requirement to PvP.
When it comes to PvP, a player using a top-end non-woc weapon vs a player with a WoC weapon should be a fairly even fight. Right now, it's not, and it hasn't been for a long time, you will get completed screwed by the player using WoC. Anyone remember how bad things was when the Crossbow got first introduced, before it got a much needed nerfed, as it was soo overpowered?
when did that happen? :S I don't use any woc weapons except on my pe, which, like said before, is gimped with or without woc way, and a pe or spy with xbow still gets owned by any dissy spy or cs/dev/ionic tank thats of equal skill.
I however totally agree that we should have woc monk weapons, melee, and useful heavy combat woc weapons. And of course the whole thing should be balanced so that not just AK and dissy are usefull, and the whole pistol tree revised. The only class that's pretty customizable is the tank, which has a large portion of viable alternatives.
My tank now uses WoC3 PA, but before that I had Camo PA and I was killing everyone with the Ion and Dev, whether they had WoC or not.
was just thinking, brammers, ur saying xbow is overpowered. but the xbow cannot beat any tank or rifle spy in a 1on1 if they are equally skilled (yes, this is something we tried over and over and over, in neofrag and other situations). however, if you use any non-woc pistols, it means that you will lose forever. So the only thing the xbow has done, is make a pistol setup slightly viable.
While I agree with you that woc should only be an alternative, like it is on the spy, or as an armour. the only thing it does for the pistol tree is to make pistol setups actually work almost to the same level as rifles and heavy weapons
While yes, it sux that the old pistol setups don't work anymore. this is not because of woc, it is because pistols were screwed. all woc does is actually make it a bit competitive.
William Antrim
08-02-11, 18:41
was just thinking, brammers, ur saying xbow is overpowered. but the xbow cannot beat any tank or rifle spy in a 1on1 if they are equally skilled (yes, this is something we tried over and over and over, in neofrag and other situations). however, if you use any non-woc pistols, it means that you will lose forever. So the only thing the xbow has done, is make a pistol setup slightly viable.
While I agree with you that woc should only be an alternative, like it is on the spy, or as an armour. the only thing it does for the pistol tree is to make pistol setups actually work almost to the same level as rifles and heavy weapons
While yes, it sux that the old pistol setups don't work anymore. this is not because of woc, it is because pistols were screwed. all woc does is actually make it a bit competitive.
youve missed brammers's point there big time chap.
He isnt talking about Crossbow today, he is talking about the crossbow when it first got introduced. It was sick. It would nail tanks in a few hits and if you got the drop on people you could take down to half health before theyd drawn their weapons.
He has made the same arguments against woc here that I have made all along. Seems odd that suddenly you agree with the statements or are willing to listen to reason.
Still, that aside the whole game needs some proper work and everyone agrees with that i think.
was just thinking, brammers, ur saying xbow is overpowered. but.....
You misread what I've said, I said it WAS overpowered. Anyway...
While yes, it sux that the old pistol setups don't work anymore. this is not because of woc, it is because pistols were screwed. all woc does is actually make it a bit competitive.
You probably highlighted the point that others have tried to make in this thread. Old pistol setups don't work, and they should. Pistol setups should work without WoC.
And you also highlighted one class that looses badly in this case, PE's since they have to do so much extra leveling to get WoC, so they can be viable in PvP. As I've argued in my previous ports, this should not be the case.
youve missed brammers's point there big time chap.
He isnt talking about Crossbow today, he is talking about the crossbow when it first got introduced. It was sick. It would nail tanks in a few hits and if you got the drop on people you could take down to half health before theyd drawn their weapons.
He has made the same arguments against woc here that I have made all along. Seems odd that suddenly you agree with the statements or are willing to listen to reason.
Still, that aside the whole game needs some proper work and everyone agrees with that i think.
I've not agreed with any statements i did not agree with before, hell, the points he made i agreed with have been part of my posts from the very beginning, namely that the balance is fucked, but that woc is totally irrelevant to that, aside from actually making the current situation better than it would be without woc.
he's talking bout the pvp now, see, he actually uses the word now. Yes the xbow was totally overpowered back then, but i took xbow as an example of the only woc weapon that is actually still more powerfull than its non-woc alternatives.
I got the point, but ye i misread the part about the xbow, it was even more overpowered back then (but it is still overpowered compared to the other pistols, even though its worse than equivalent rifles and heavy weapons)
You probably highlighted the point that others have tried to make in this thread. Old pistol setups don't work, and they should. Pistol setups should work without WoC.
this... the whole point. WOC is completely, and utterly irrelevant. it's the only positive thing that can be said about pistols. The problem at the introduction of woc, was xbow being overpowered, but this was changed ages ago, so again, irrelevant, they actually fixed it.
with woc: pistols are slightly viable
without woc: pistols are simply unusable
with woc: there's an alternative to the dissy
without woc: dissy is the only rifle
with woc: there's a choice between speed setups and resist/skill setups (the pa's), as well as the choice between a agility speed setup, or a athletics speed setup
without woc: only choice is pa speed malus, or non-pa
combine that with the fact that woc weapons are much much easier to get, far less expensive, and the leveling only takes 10% of the time required for actually leveling a character to cap, independent of method of leveling.
my intention in every post so far, is to say that woc is not the problem, it's the fucked up balance thats the problem. WoC has only a positive influence on the balance in the current game.
I've kept repeating this over and over, in different ways, to try and make this clear. If williams point has been in agreement with this, great, but I don't see why it was necessary to constantly insult and insinuate insults.
The ak is pretty damn amasingly OP
The ak is pretty damn amasingly OP
dissy does more damage. try it sometimes. Also, ak's need faaaaar more weight in ammo, making it hard to use in opwars unless gimping resists. (ofc new people or inexperienced people don't spec piercing resist, which makes ak's do more damage, as energy is a default resist on most armour)
Aye the dissy is pretty powerful but iv not had as big a problems with that as i have with ak, mostly cos AK does poison as well for most people making it very potent. And i thought everybody learnt to spec for pierce resist a while ago specially since the woc weapons and ion cannons, hell is there a pistol user in the land that doenst start off with a shot from that cannon?. Then again it could just be cos people tend to hack a lot more with the ak then say its *server lag* making it sound like its going triple the speed that max freq allows
And nobody really specs for energy resist atm surely... that boat sailed years ago when people realised even energy based weapons do mostly other types of damage and ofc energy as you say is easy to get high enough with armour for most folks. Poison though has always been the problem child, its easyish for tanks to spec for it a bit but if you spec to much into it you miss out on vital xray and fire which pretty much every other weapon does
ye, true, I like that the weapon mods actually do make a difference
William Antrim
09-02-11, 16:42
Ive not insulted you ever, I just said youre clearly missing alot of the points raised in a blind crusade to prove some other point.
Woc had a negative effect on the game because the balance was fucked before woc arrived yet people still played. People then left as it was one more problem on top of a long list of pre-existing balancing issues. It just made things worse because they had a whole load of new unbalanced guns to add to the mix and then spend months trying to rebalance those new ones instead of fixing up the current ones. Case in point as previously mentioned the crossbow. Prior to that we had the Executioner PE's raping everyone, prior to that we had the ROLH pe's raping everyone. Before that it was tankocron for a while, then monkocron, then hybridocron before that too.
We have had balancing issues since 2002 when the game was released. I started playing December of that year and i dont know a single time during the entire game when things were fair and there wasnt a favoured class. Its now 2011. A long time later.
Woc being introduced was like putting a band aid onto a gun shot wound. It was meant to give us something new to level for but it just meant that private eyes - my personal favourite class - getting the shaft in terms of xp levelling.
Sure spies and tanks can get woc in no time, never argued this point - all my chars have a bazillion woc xp just from rare/cash farming over the years. The private eye who under today's game is already underpowered in current regime is now even more nerfed due to the massive extra time he has to take to get a woc gun and this is only just to be able to compete in pvp. It does not give him or her a competitive edge.
oh man... ur saying during every time I said I was only talking about the current situation, u were all that time talking about when woc was introduced?
I don't get that, why keep replying that I'm wrong if you're talking about a totally different time?
your last post states that you pretty much agree with all the points I've made, being that the balance is fucked, and that woc is a bandaid that's not sufficient to fix it (good analogy).
My point from the start has been that woc is irrelevant, as woc is not the problem, the crappy unbalance of the game is. yet every time someone keeps saying that woc is the problem, so I try to explain in more and more detail why woc has never been the problem, but the problems in the balance of classes, and the balancing of guns/implants other than woc. I've been trying to get people to stop seeing woc as a problem, but instead look at the actual balance instead. In summary, my "crusade" has been to prove that woc isn't the problem, it's actually in the current game only positive, while the balance of other things is screwed up far beyond any hope of woc being positive enough to fix it. (although I think heavy weapon tanks atm are pretty balanced, lots of possible setups which are competitive).
If this is in fact something you agree with, then good, we can maybe discuss properly what kind of things should be changed in the balance to make pistols, pe's, apu's, hybrids and melee viable.
As a start, I'd say one of the main issues addressed if there is every going to be a neocron 3, is the netcode. A lot of the reasons guns aren't viable is because of the netcode. Being able to shoot while clipping around something so others cant shoot you, is something that should be addressed. I think however that being able to dodge fire, is something that should be implemented, perfect aim should not result in immediate death, tactical movement (bunnyhopping anyone?) should be part of it.
as to the insulting, all your talk about "blind crusading some other point", and such, I find very hard to somehow take positively.
ofmg this game is no longer the nc1 that I remember, FUCKING WOC!
ofmg this game is no longer the nc1 that I remember, FUCKING WOC!
yay genji!, u still play?
Right, as far as this argument on WoC goes, and balance goes. It's broken, WoC is making the unbalanced game even more unbalanced.
Now I'm going to follow the advice of a fellow NC player, posted much earlier in this thread.
Ladies....put the handbags down.
I'm off for some peace and quiet in Techhaven....
William Antrim
09-02-11, 20:38
Every post ive made on the subject is about how woc has changed the game historically. I played when it was introduced and i stuck to my judge and my disruptor and my other weapons that werent woc religiously. ALL the way through getting my ass handed to me by crossbow pes and everything else that came along. I watched friends quit because they didnt have time to grind to woc on their pes as they were the most fun classes to play for plenty of people. I watched other friends quit because as long time monk players they got no woc weapons.
I watched others roll tanks because they could get woc and i watched others get banned because they figured a way to get woc without actually following the letter of the law.
The game needed fixing long before Woc but all woc did was make it worse, that is the whole point I have been trying to get across for a long time and honestly i think the blind crusade is true as if its only taken 20 odd posts for you to realise the point im making then blind is an apt description.
The TL 100 guns need balancing to start with and dmg needs to be standardised. Tanks should get something akin to a 5% dmg buff for a trade of off of 5% run speed reduction. Agility needs to be taken out of the equation altogether and athletics should be the only runspeed tangible.
The other classes (pistol pes and spies and probably monks too) should get a 5% runspeed boost for having smaller weapons and 5% nerf somewhere else possibly to keep in balance. Whatever one class gains they should lose something else to balance it up. Maybe Monks can get a 5% dmg boost on spells that require a stationary cast of a few seconds.
Everyone should be on the same page damage wise and it should be based on tech level. This would make things so much easier to manage and you can pop out some new guns and items easily sticking with a simple formula like this. As all youd need to do is pop out some new guns with new skins and same damage as everything else, theyd already be balanced (mostly) with existing guns and would look different for the players.
Damage over time should be removed to start with until such time as it can be managed so as not to be over powered, or EVERYONE gets DoT effects from weapons and ALL are managed based on tech level also.
RoF should be scaled in accordance with damage, as RoF increases then damage should decrease imo. This way again you acheive balance. You have the single shot high damage guns and then the rapid fire low damage guns all doing similar damage. It makes it easier on people who dont have the skill to maintain a lock on the target. Possibly the high RoF weapons can have DoT on them to give the better skilled players a reward for their skills?
All of these are off the cuff ideas and no way should be set in stone. They are a starting point and should probably be EXTENSIVELY tested before anyone takes anything I have said seriously but yeah I think lots needs to change very soon.
I DO NOT WANT TO SEE WOC or any other "quick content fixes" brought anywhere near NC3 until such time as they are exhaustively tested by either A) in house testers or B) the community that is left.
This is a wish list. I have grown up with NC in my 20s. It is as I once wrote in an old post, like a gentlemans club where you see all the old faces from yesteryear, it has a cult status among the internet these days and it is loved and adored by many an aging veteran. I've met some great friends and some even greater enemies in this game and it has formed a large part of my gaming hobby for over 8 years now.
I do not want to see that memory sullied by half finished ideas no matter their source.
How about we let this thread get back on track by all agreeing that in theory woc is a good idea but only when they have balanced the other guns and that until then its just a load of extra weapons to try and balance. I wouldn't have a problem with WoC if they were just cool looking guns that weren't anymore powerful than non woc guns but right now you have to admit there are woc guns which are more powerful thus making them essential thus forcing people to grind when they don't want to.
And when they do finally balance the other guns properly so can reintroduce woc i would love to see some interesting looking tank and monk guns.
The game needed fixing long before Woc but all woc did was make it worse, that is the whole point I have been trying to get across for a long time and honestly i think the blind crusade is true as if its only taken 20 odd posts for you to realise the point im making then blind is an apt description.
Below this line is a part as a reply, while halfway through, at the header balance, there is an actual response and constructive discussion on what to do better in nc3. William I'd like to ask to read these first points, as they relate to your post, for the rest of the discussion, the second part of the post is more interesting.
First Part
yep just as blind as still not getting the point I've been trying to make in every single post so far, backed up with actual current experiences and tests.
sod it, you're wrong about the effect of woc on the current game. You could be perfectly right about woc having been the reason for your friends to leave in the past, I never disagreed with you on that, but in the current state, woc is either irrelevant or in the case of the pe/pistols the only thing that comes close to actually being balanced.
as to being blind to your posts, in discussions I tend to assume that when other people reply to me, they are actually talking about the thing I'm talking about too, since discussions where two people are talking about two different things tend to be useless. This assumption that we were talking about the same thing did indeed make me "blind" to a lot of ur arguments, as I am in no way qualified to talk about how woc was introduced and what effect it had on the game back then, and still don't see the relevance of talking about that now if we're talking about how nc3 should be an improvement over the current game. (we also shouldn't make hybrids/monks as overpowered as they used to be, but seeing as that's no longer the case, we're not talking about that anymore)
Constructive Discussion of the balance
I think it's a good idea to base overall damage on TL, as that makes it much easier to balance, as it also allows for tradeoffs being made with gear that allows getting a certain tech level, and makes sure that certain trees of skills are used in making setups. I'm not sure how this would affect pe's though, because they cannot use the same TL weapons. But I guess this should be offset with their ability to use resists or speed (maybe this could be more improved by actually making PE psi shields effective instead of useless as they currently are?).
I think the 5% speed/damage variations are a bit low, as 5% speed is almost unnoticable, making a speed setup or a damage setup too close to eachother to be different setups (as in, it would result in setups being almost irrelevant, as there is almost no satisfaction in finding a good setup). I think current system of skill setups is good, as long as it is possible to achieve competitiveness with most styles of setups.
apu's and pe's getting a 5% speed and a 5% nerf seems counterproductive, how does this improve their viability? The only reason my apu is viable is because he's fucking fast (even with a woc pa ;)), imho it needs to get a damage or frequency increase, and some method of gaining some resistance (one or two bursts from most weapons brings down an apu, they only survive currently by clipping). Maybe monks should be made into three categories, Glass cannon (new apu), average damage, average protection (hybrid), and support (ppu). Currently the apu simply doesn't do much damage for it's fragility, the only viability coming from being able to dodge and clip. A dissy far outdamages an apu, even though a spy is far less fragile.
In the current state of the game, I have never had a problem with damage over time, but I spec psi-resist so that could be the reason I hardly suffer from DoT effects. If you mean by DoT that one burst of dissy fire remains on target if the first is on target, then you are right, as this is one of the reasons a disruptor is so overpowered, hardly any shots are missed with it.
I don't exactly know what you mean by RoF, but making not being able to aim (keep on target), is the skills aspect of the game, imho someone with skill should always win over someone without. For those that can't aim, there's always aoe, and maybe taken from other games, turrets/traps/mines, which require tactical thinking instead of aim.
As to powerleveling, I think being able to powerlevel is a good idea in a pvp oriented game such as neocron, but there should be some punishment, be it in money (like GA's booster packs), or making powerlevel incredibly boring, or expensive ingame wise (like legal powerleveling currently costs a huge amount of credits in repair nanites), and normal leveling interesting (for example by making missions give more xp, and adding interesting missions that still take a long time, no "gather 100 tusks").
But by far the most important and utterly necessary change in nc3, needs to be anti-cheat, and getting GM's that actually know about what is possible and what isn't in the game.
In the current state, the players are somehow held responsible for bringing forward the cheaters to get them banned, which in the current state doesn't even work because the GM's don't do anything with evidence that any person that is active in the game would see as valid proof.
It is the responsibility of the Developers and GM's to keep the gaming experience fair, and to remove disruptive forces, not the players' responsibility.
Being able to exploit/cheat is something that is probably the most important reason KK lost most of its customers, anti-cheat should always have been the priority, and is the biggest fail of KK, even more than their inability to learn from the community.
How about we let this thread get back on track by all agreeing that in theory woc is a good idea but only when they have balanced the other guns and that until then its just a load of extra weapons to try and balance. I wouldn't have a problem with WoC if they were just cool looking guns that weren't anymore powerful than non woc guns but right now you have to admit there are woc guns which are more powerful thus making them essential thus forcing people to grind when they don't want to.
And when they do finally balance the other guns properly so can reintroduce woc i would love to see some interesting looking tank and monk guns.
monk guns.
Everybody knows monks are getting bored with those gloves, they want somebody to develop a psi gun so they can really shoot the lightning at people!
I've noticed a little more troll & dispute in this thread recently..
Remember this thread was intended for suggestions and ideas for NC3. I'd hope that everyone try to keep disagreement posts to a minimum so that KK can read through with ease.
Why x person disagrees with y is likely irrelevant here.
KK can likely pick holes in peoples opinions themselves without causing a public community argument. This is why i usually avoid posting opinions/suggestions to devs on forums.. :p
Just my two cents
it all started with a debate on whether woc should be in NC3 as right now its a boring grind but essential as it has some very very potent weapons.
Basically, x blames woc for the current state of the game balance, while y disagrees that the balance was always broken, but x agrees that it was always broken, but still thinks woc is bad and shouldn't be introduced into NC3 because the entire concept of woc will most certainly destroy any kind of balance they implement in NC3 by introducing it.
Good point though Axis, how dare we discuss opinions in the Community Talk forum! Also, I don't see anything in the OP about how this thread is "intended for suggestions and ideas for NC3".
Basically, x blames woc for the current state of the game balance, while y disagrees that the balance was always broken, but x agrees that it was always broken, but still thinks woc is bad and shouldn't be introduced into NC3 because the entire concept of woc will most certainly destroy any kind of balance they implement in NC3 by introducing it.
Good point though Axis, how dare we discuss opinions in the Community Talk forum! Also, I don't see anything in the OP about how this thread is "intended for suggestions and ideas for NC3".
from y with love, tnx for the summary ;)
the OP was as far as I can see a "yay nc3" post ;) which on these forums automatically calls for cynics to ruin the mood by trying to be realistic ;) (see what I did there? harr harr)
Dribble Joy
11-02-11, 03:47
getting GM's that actually know about what is possible and what isn't in the game.
The trouble is that they know exactly what is and isn't possible. The problem is that they can't simply ban people on what they might believe is cheating.
What they need (like the police) is evidence. This evidence is actually VERY hard to come by.
Lag, server issues and the unknown quantities such as the relevant set-ups of the involved characters makes quantifiable judgements about an incident near impossible.
In short, they need what they have allways used/needed; Data on client manipulation that comes not from the game world, but from account info. Expanding this capacity to detect illicit behaviour needs two things: A) More GMs and/or server software/data investigation, B) A detection system that the last patch intended to bring forth.
We're unlikely to see any kind of update until we get an actual game update.
The trouble is that they know exactly what is and isn't possible. The problem is that they can't simply ban people on what they might believe is cheating.
What they need (like the police) is evidence. This evidence is actually VERY hard to come by.
Lag, server issues and the unknown quantities such as the relevant set-ups of the involved characters makes quantifiable judgements about an incident near impossible.
In short, they need what they have allways used/needed; Data on client manipulation that comes not from the game world, but from account info. Expanding this capacity to detect illicit behaviour needs two things: A) More GMs and/or server software/data investigation, B) A detection system that the last patch intended to bring forth.
I can't discuss the actual content of some of the videos I have provided to KK, but most of them are simply impossible. Just utterly impossible (I generally don't even bother with 90% of the ones that admit themselves that are cheating, since most of those do indeed not cheat enough to be provable). Cheating and Banevading has become "cool" amongs that community, there are people who publicly announce they are cheating, just to prove that in the past 6 months they still haven't been banned.
plus, as far as we know, the last patch did absolutely nothing except change the filecheck a little bit, and use a default .net data encryption, both of which will probably break current cheats, but doesn't contain any heuristic checking for cheats (I read the cheater forums to stay updated on the people doing it and what they're doing).
We're unlikely to see any kind of update
there, I fixed it for you ;)
William Antrim
11-02-11, 16:37
I think youve finally understood the point im making biglines.
The game in its currrent state..... with all of the ten people who play it is beyond broken. Its the problems described in previous posts that have made the game this way. Now I would like to see a complete overhaul of these problems and have things go "back to how they used to be" to coin a well used phrase.
Previous approaches to balancing have been akin to doing brain surgery with a sledgehammer. The game in its current state is screwed completely, hence why noone hardly plays. Its a sorry state of affairs but it is what it is. The populations at login screen tell anyone (teary eyed and nostalgic enough to remember the good old days) all they need to know about current game play. We dont need a reminder of how bad it is now.
As i said in one of my first posts it has got to this stage and its a bit late for the game as is. What I want is to not see history repeat itself. I couldnt care how it is now, its not an issue to me. I dont want to see it come crashing down a second time.
The trouble is that they know exactly what is and isn't possible. The problem is that they can't simply ban people on what they might believe is cheating.
What they need (like the police) is evidence. This evidence is actually VERY hard to come by.
Lag, server issues and the unknown quantities such as the relevant set-ups of the involved characters makes quantifiable judgements about an incident near impossible.
In short, they need what they have allways used/needed; Data on client manipulation that comes not from the game world, but from account info. Expanding this capacity to detect illicit behaviour needs two things: A) More GMs and/or server software/data investigation, B) A detection system that the last patch intended to bring forth.
This is why they should change drugs so they only give the major stats (dex str psi con and int) which will make it much easier to tell whos hacking and generally make the game more fun ofc. I remember once some guy was basically teleporting around and everybody thought he was hacking, but he said he was just using drugs... so i tried the drugs he listed and WHAM! i was teleporting to... for about 10-15mins. And ofc recently I tried a load of wep lore drugs and got an instant aim on the dev for a similar time. Its ridiculous how enough drugs is actually more like hacking than most hacks. Thus the either the aforementioned solution or else limit the amount you can use at once to say 2 or 3
I think youve finally understood the point im making biglines.
Depends, I didn't get at first that you were talking about some point in the past, as I don't get the relevance (and still don't), I've tried to stay in the realistic point from which balance will be looked at (if at all, I hope they completely restart and add new classes/change how classes work for nc3).
I really really don't see the point of going back to some arbitrary point in time and somehow try to balance from that, as the game was never balanced, so the logical point of discussion should be the current state, as Noone can remember the exact balance at any other point in the game (aside from extremes like monkocron) and the balance was never any good anyway.
And tbh, The vast majority of people who quit, didn't quit because the game was unbalanced, they have quit because of the cheaters and absolutely no change whatsoever in this respect from the devs.
(one comment, aimed at anyone who thinks the balance is fucked: Only say anything if you have actually tried all those classes for a while in the current game. If you're only a pistol pe and you lose all the time, this doesn't signify imbalance if you would have lost all the time with any other class too ;) However if you always win with a dissy spy, and always lose with a pistol spy, then it's unbalanced.)
This is why they should change drugs so they only give the major stats (dex str psi con and int) which will make it much easier to tell whos hacking and generally make the game more fun ofc. I remember once some guy was basically teleporting around and everybody thought he was hacking, but he said he was just using drugs... so i tried the drugs he listed and WHAM! i was teleporting to... for about 10-15mins. And ofc recently I tried a load of wep lore drugs and got an instant aim on the dev for a similar time. Its ridiculous how enough drugs is actually more like hacking than most hacks. Thus the either the aforementioned solution or else limit the amount you can use at once to say 2 or 3
I agree that certain overpowered drugs like redflash and para-x should be balanced more.
lol @ this thread still
Simple fact: balence is impossible.
In games like MMO's with so many different classes and spells/weapons it is NOT possible to have balence, it simply isn't. Even big games with billions of dollors dumped into them and is patched all the time (warcraft is the best example) it is not possible to have balence, the best you can hope for is obvious overpowered things can be brought closer to par with others and vice versa. The current underpowered class combos, apu's and pistols (pistols mainly due to pe's), were nerfed because they were very powerful in the past. They may have been over nerfed but that is normal for any game, there is simplely not enough dev power/time to continuely try to balence things.
IF and WHEN the neocron dev team has the resources to patch the game regularly THEN what classes require more fine tuning in there balence will actually matter, but as of now the whole arguement is a waste of time. By this point the dev team is well aware of what needs to be changed and posting about it non stop on the forum will result in nothing more then wasting the MOD's time having to read it all and wasting your breath arguing about something in which there is no winner.
By this point we ALL know what needs to be changed, including the dev team, and it will be addressed when and if the dev team has the resources to do so.
Doc Holliday
12-02-11, 13:44
go genji.
lol @ this thread still
Simple fact: balence is impossible.
In games like MMO's with so many different classes and spells/weapons it is NOT possible to have balence, it simply isn't. Even big games with billions of dollors dumped into them and is patched all the time (warcraft is the best example) it is not possible to have balence, the best you can hope for is obvious overpowered things can be brought closer to par with others and vice versa. The current underpowered class combos, apu's and pistols (pistols mainly due to pe's), were nerfed because they were very powerful in the past. They may have been over nerfed but that is normal for any game, there is simplely not enough dev power/time to continuely try to balence things.
IF and WHEN the neocron dev team has the resources to patch the game regularly THEN what classes require more fine tuning in there balence will actually matter, but as of now the whole arguement is a waste of time. By this point the dev team is well aware of what needs to be changed and posting about it non stop on the forum will result in nothing more then wasting the MOD's time having to read it all and wasting your breath arguing about something in which there is no winner.
By this point we ALL know what needs to be changed, including the dev team, and it will be addressed when and if the dev team has the resources to do so.
actually agree, except you seem to think that pointless discussions don't belong on this forum? ;)
clean hands are happy hands!!!
This is why they should change drugs so they only give the major stats (dex str psi con and int) which will make it much easier to tell whos hacking and generally make the game more fun ofc. I remember once some guy was basically teleporting around and everybody thought he was hacking, but he said he was just using drugs... so i tried the drugs he listed and WHAM! i was teleporting to... for about 10-15mins. And ofc recently I tried a load of wep lore drugs and got an instant aim on the dev for a similar time. Its ridiculous how enough drugs is actually more like hacking than most hacks. Thus the either the aforementioned solution or else limit the amount you can use at once to say 2 or 3
Utter bullshit, the teleporting around that Id had seen was not drugs, I won't get into it, also insta aiming with a dev, unless there is some sort of flip point where points start matter more I can't see 10 - 20 or even 50 points more mattering....
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