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View Full Version : A few questions regarding the state of play



Nullvoid
23-11-09, 14:35
Heya, well basically the last time I played properly was around April 2007 I guess (2.2 had not long been released) and I just wanted to try and clear up a few things to see what has changed since then.

1. Why don't more tanks use the creed? It was way stronger than the CS/rav at the time so it seemed logical it would become the gun of choice for those who could manage it, is that still the case or no?

2. What has led to the disrupter being so powerful? All I see in the notes is one line in patch 167 saying "Burst weapons have received a damage bonus" so has that propelled it to the top? Did it also affect options for the other weapon types like the RoLH for example or the CS?

3. Further to that, is the disrupter the sole reason spies are so strong now or are they dangerous with any of the available options?

4. The APUs got hit quite hard by having their cast rate dropped loads and getting switched to an aiming reticle, not to mention becoming squishier with all the resists/armour changes so umm, are they actually able to do anything meaningful solo now whether pve or pvp or do they need a ppu nearby to be useful?

5. I notice all of the main drone farming spots got nerfed in terms of the ability to drop techparts so where do people go now to get them? The notes show mobs in general got nerfed but are things like fire mobs/warbots viable hunting choices for a solo tank for example? They used to be pretty much impossible even when using your best armour/healing combinations so hopefully that has changed...

That's all I can think of at the moment but feel free to give general opinions of how the '168' game experience is even if you aren't answering the questions directly, the more info the better really. :)

Biglines
23-11-09, 15:45
1: creed is bugged in pvp I think because it misses in certain cases
2: dunno why
3: ak and healing light are also viable if you're skilled, ak in some cases even better than dissy
4: they can solo regants, but otherwise pretty much useless unless your carefull in pve (pvp not viable)
5: firemobs/wbs can be done, and is the main source of techparts unless u exploit on your drone

Nullvoid
25-11-09, 15:02
1: creed is bugged in pvp I think because it misses in certain cases
2: dunno why
3: ak and healing light are also viable if you're skilled, ak in some cases even better than dissy
4: they can solo regants, but otherwise pretty much useless unless your carefull in pve (pvp not viable)
5: firemobs/wbs can be done, and is the main source of techparts unless u exploit on your drone

Thanks for the reply. :)

1. Do you know if that's a confirmed issue? I remember from playing before that the same thing could happen with a range of weapons if you held the mousebutton down nonstop instead of clicking for each attack.

3. Excellent, I'm all for people using a variety of weapons instead of sticking to one supposed best choice.

4. So I've found! Even killing a hopper or giant reaper or a whole range of things that used to be pretty simple has seemed like quite an achievement.

5. Yea I was wondering how you could still exploit with the drone as it sounded like mobs in the ceres labs and mc5 and so on would no longer drop techparts but they still do...hmm...the patch notes were pretty clear on it:


[LOOT]

-The rare part drop has been removed for following NPCs/Monsters:
Juggernaut Warbots F-Type, L-Type, R-Type, FX-15, LX-15 and RX-15
Experimental and Prototype Ceres Troopers
Genotoxic Parasites, Slugger and Crawler
MC5 Security Officer
Regant Soldier, Trooper, Scout, Corporal, Warrior and Commander

Yet a quick jaunt into mc5 yesterday had security officers dropping techparts as well as the mc5 ones on the base commander...

Biglines
25-11-09, 15:40
i think they were removed from the mc5 guards outside.

and if your very good or have a very large team, u can do the doy tunnels (level 3), they drop techs too, and slotties and ultima's, it's impossible to do solo though (although I once did it with just a tank and a ppu, but that was damn difficult, and requires very good teamwork between the ppu and the tank, and lots of zoning)

Nullvoid
25-11-09, 15:54
i think they were removed from the mc5 guards outside.

and if your very good or have a very large team, u can do the doy tunnels (level 3), they drop techs too, and slotties and ultima's, it's impossible to do solo though (although I once did it with just a tank and a ppu, but that was damn difficult, and requires very good teamwork between the ppu and the tank, and lots of zoning)

Does that mean they got rid of those nasty broken mobs down there that used to just one shot everyone? :)

CMaster
25-11-09, 16:08
Does that mean they got rid of those nasty broken mobs down there that used to just one shot everyone? :)

Yeah. There are some new broken things mind - basically DoTs from mobs in general are overpowered (making Hoppers some of the more dangerous fire mobs, for example. At a rough guess some KK dev has put in a number for total damage done by a stack, and the game is applying that per second/tick instead) and some of the DoY tunnels level 3 mobs do Xray stacks, so take holy-anti-xray down there with you.

Going back to the earlier stuff:

1. There's no "bug" per se with holding the button down, it's just down to whether the entire burst hitting or not is down to the state of the reticle at the start of the burst. Just one of the many problems as a result of NC's not-really-FPS-but-not-quite-just-click-target system. The Creed however suffers from a very old bug that effects all beam-ray weapons - when hitting a fast moving player target, the damage often doesn't register. This seems to particuarly apply when the player being shot at has a high FPS - I take a lot more damage from beam weapon users when I run FRAPs, dragging my framerate down to 30 than when it's up at a VSYNCed 60.

2. Basically TL115 + Burst damage buff + Tech damage buff = lots of damage. And none of the weapons are really balanced very welll anyhow. Interesting that it took a good few months after the patch for people to realise this was the setup though.

3. Not been in game recentley, but I don't think spies are outright dominant.

4. APUs always needed someone backing them up to be especially useful. Now they desperatley need one.

5. Firemobs are the tech hunters choice, especially with a tank. Beam weapons are the way to go - it's all about keeping out of range, just like it used to be with rifle spies + warbots.

Biglines
25-11-09, 19:38
2. Basically TL115 + Burst damage buff + Tech damage buff = lots of damage. And none of the weapons are really balanced very welll anyhow. Interesting that it took a good few months after the patch for people to realise this was the setup though.
for people who can't aim, dissy is the way to go, since it's easy to aim and does loads of dmg, when ur good at aiming tho, ak with the right ammo will be far more dangerous than a dissy, I die to ak's far more than to dissies...

I use dissy on my spy, but i prefer my pe with xbow, I can beat a lot of spies, and most tanks with it, but yes I do better with dissy vs spies.

Nullvoid
26-11-09, 14:44
Yeah. There are some new broken things mind - basically DoTs from mobs in general are overpowered (making Hoppers some of the more dangerous fire mobs, for example. At a rough guess some KK dev has put in a number for total damage done by a stack, and the game is applying that per second/tick instead) and some of the DoY tunnels level 3 mobs do Xray stacks, so take holy-anti-xray down there with you.

Going back to the earlier stuff:

1. There's no "bug" per se with holding the button down, it's just down to whether the entire burst hitting or not is down to the state of the reticle at the start of the burst. Just one of the many problems as a result of NC's not-really-FPS-but-not-quite-just-click-target system. The Creed however suffers from a very old bug that effects all beam-ray weapons - when hitting a fast moving player target, the damage often doesn't register. This seems to particuarly apply when the player being shot at has a high FPS - I take a lot more damage from beam weapon users when I run FRAPs, dragging my framerate down to 30 than when it's up at a VSYNCed 60.

2. Basically TL115 + Burst damage buff + Tech damage buff = lots of damage. And none of the weapons are really balanced very welll anyhow. Interesting that it took a good few months after the patch for people to realise this was the setup though.

3. Not been in game recentley, but I don't think spies are outright dominant.

4. APUs always needed someone backing them up to be especially useful. Now they desperatley need one.

5. Firemobs are the tech hunters choice, especially with a tank. Beam weapons are the way to go - it's all about keeping out of range, just like it used to be with rifle spies + warbots.

Thanks C, I'll be wary of any DoTs from now on. :)

EDIT - Do those DoT issues carry over to weapons like the devourer or the woc pistols/rifles which apply poison stacks?

Sadly I came back to find my tank almost fully lommed with a load of rifle combat specced already so I've stuck with that for now. I guess a sniper/fusion/laser rifle would give the best results when out hunting?

Oh and about the attacking method. I remember testing it with things like a holy energy halo, HL, TAR, Termi, CS, ravager and so on and even with the monster right infront of me (and a closed reticle when applicable) a lot of the hits would just go missing if I held the mouse button down, it's always been like that for me whenever I've played the game. Clicking every single time I wanted to attack made/makes a drastic difference in terms of how quickly things died/die so I've stuck with it ever since.

I can see that what Biglines and you are describing is a separate issue though, tied in with the netcode and clipping situation no doubt.

CMaster
26-11-09, 15:29
Player DoTs seem perfectly reasonable, although there are less of them than their used to be. I'm not sure that all mob DoTs are insane either, just most of them. For example the evil DoY tunnel xray stacks do about 300/tick to a fully buffed PPU. Thats something like 3000/tick base (I think they got rid of Steel Skin). Which is slightly insane. There are some DoY bots in the dome hunting areas which do even worse damage than that - on the plus side though, those are only /60 or something and die in 2/3 shots.

Biglines
26-11-09, 15:51
Sadly I came back to find my tank almost fully lommed with a load of rifle combat specced already so I've stuck with that for now. I guess a sniper/fusion/laser rifle would give the best results when out hunting?
not on a tank... just go for Heavy combat and try to get a proper creed if u wanna go hunt firemobs

Dribble Joy
26-11-09, 16:57
for people who can't aim, dissy is the way to go, since it's easy to aim and does loads of dmg, when ur good at aiming tho, ak with the right ammo will be far more dangerous than a dissy
This is true of a lot of weapons as well.

Reaper, SWAT rifle, Slasher, Ravager (when not being affected by beam issues), EoF and many others are still nice weapons if used properly.

nabbl
26-11-09, 17:56
Player DoTs seem perfectly reasonable, although there are less of them than their used to be. I'm not sure that all mob DoTs are insane either, just most of them. For example the evil DoY tunnel xray stacks do about 300/tick to a fully buffed PPU. Thats something like 3000/tick base (I think they got rid of Steel Skin). Which is slightly insane. There are some DoY bots in the dome hunting areas which do even worse damage than that - on the plus side though, those are only /60 or something and die in 2/3 shots.

Haha .. that reminds me of our first time in Doy Tunnels after the Evo2.2 patch.
We thought we were smart when we just bought the new anti-xray-stack-psi-modules and went down to the doy tunnels. first unit in 3rd level and my ppu gets 5 stacks of xray. Well i thought heal is not enough but yay i still got my anti xray spell. Casting it and it removed ONE stack, of 5. So still 4 left, I was dead in seconds.
That was kinda ridiculous.